Rochelle B. Weinstein, WHAT YOU DO TO ME
[0:02]Hi, I'm Zippy Owens and you're listening to moms don't have time to read books.
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[1:03]Michelle B. Weinstein is back on moms don't have time to read books.
[1:07]This is another appearance for her, Rochelle, and I have become good friends.
[1:11]I adore her.
[1:12]She is the author of What You Do To Me, a novel.
[1:15]And this one was hosted by guest hosted.
[1:17]And this one was guest hosted by Julie Chavez, author of Everyone But Myself, forthcoming
[1:24]from Zippy Books.
[1:25]And memoir Rochelle is the USA Today and Amazon Best Selling Author of What You Do To Me.
[1:30]And we let go.
[1:31]This is not how it ends, somebody's daughter, where we fall, the morning after, and what
[1:35]we leave behind.
[1:36]Rochelle spent her early years always with a book in hand raised by the likes of Sidney
[1:40]Sheldon and Judy Bloom.
[1:42]A former entertainment industry executive, she splits her time between Sunny South
[1:46]Florida and the mountains of North Carolina.
[1:48]When she's not writing, Rochelle can be found sharing monthly book recommendations at Women
[1:53]Writers, Women's Books, teaching workshops at Nova, South Eastern University, hiking, reading,
[1:57]and finding the world's best nachos.
[2:00]She is currently working on her eighth novel.
[2:02]Rochelle, welcome to Mom's Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[2:05]I'm so excited you're here and I'm so happy that I get to be the one to interview
[2:09]you today.
[2:10]Welcome.
[2:11]Welcome.
[2:12]Thank you, Julie.
[2:13]And thank you to Zippy for having me.
[2:14]I just love you guys and I love what you're doing over there.
[2:17]Oh, I'm so grateful to be a part of it.
[2:19]It's such a fun community.
[2:21]So we are here today to talk about what you do to me, which is your latest book.
[2:28]It is your seventh or eighth.
[2:30]I feel like I had this in my mind and then I forgot I'm laughing because I'm getting confused.
[2:34]It's my seventh.
[2:35]I literally just finished writing my eighth book yesterday.
[2:39]Oh my goodness.
[2:40]Congratulations.
[2:41]It's like a collision of books right now.
[2:45]That's such a weird thing that I never appreciated before I got into the author world, how
[2:49]you're working on your next project by the time the panel comes out.
[2:52]I just keeping it straight.
[2:54]Is that ever challenging for you to keep straight what you're talking about?
[2:57]Oh, and it's great fun when you're in an interview and you're talking about a book
[3:01]that should be for front of your mind and you're talking about, you get the character's
[3:06]names all wrong because you're so enmeshed in the new book.
[3:09]You're like, wait a minute.
[3:11]Who's the love interest?
[3:13]It's great fun.
[3:14]It's amazing.
[3:15]What a joy.
[3:16]What an adventure.
[3:17]Right?
[3:18]Well, I'm so excited to talk about this book.
[3:21]Will you give us first kind of the brief overview because I'm terrible at summarizing
[3:25]books?
[3:26]And before we do that, I want to say this cover is amazing.
[3:30]I think that they did such a good job and there's something of a mixed tape that just
[3:35]totally pegs a certain time.
[3:37]Well, it conjures up a certain memory, a certain type of nostalgia for us, for us, older
[3:43]women, not you.
[3:44]Oh, I'm getting there.
[3:46]So like every author, we all, we all, we all.
[3:48]suck at it to the offices of our book.
[3:51]So here goes.
[3:53]So what you do to me was inspired by the song, Hey, They're Delilah, which I'll get
[3:58]to.
[3:59]Yes.
[4:00]And it is the journey of Rolling Stone reporter as she's on the hunt to find the muse behind
[4:06]the title song, which is what you do to me, which is a line right out of Hey, They're
[4:10]Delilah.
[4:11]So this journey, you know, we follow her journey to find the muse and there's, it's a
[4:18]dual timeline and we see Cecilia and her childhood and her history and how it influences
[4:25]her choices and her grit and her drive.
[4:29]But while she's also introducing us to Sarah and Eddie, who are the love interests.
[4:34]And I think ultimately for Cecilia to bring these two together is their happy ending, echoes
[4:44]her, her hopeful happy ending.
[4:46]Yes.
[4:47]Very good job.
[4:48]I'm very proud to.
[4:49]You did great.
[4:51]That sucked.
[4:52]No, it's so challenging to do and I will say too that I think it's far more challenging
[4:59]for fiction than it is for nonfiction, at least because I tell the, I'm an elementary
[5:05]school librarian and I tell the kids all the time that there's what you have is the story
[5:11]of the book.
[5:12]But then there's what the books about and sure, the book is always about so many
[5:16]more things.
[5:17]I mean, this book is about love and longing and nostalgia and, you know, the ways that
[5:24]our parents fail and, you know, forgiveness, just all these wonderful topics in here.
[5:30]So can you just do this synopsis for me?
[5:33]I thought you'd do this synopsis for all.
[5:34]Do your book.
[5:35]You do mine.
[5:36]Oh my gosh.
[5:37]That's perfect.
[5:38]We can trade these.
[5:39]We'll do it from now on.
[5:40]This is, we should have thought of this.
[5:41]It's true.
[5:43]Especially since you're so close to it.
[5:46]Okay.
[5:47]So tell us.
[5:48]So hey there Delilah, how did you decide on kind of, because that song really is the
[5:53]beginning of all of the book.
[5:56]So tell me about how you decided it and then actually involving Tom from the plain white
[6:03]tees.
[6:04]Tell me a little bit about how that all went down.
[6:06]I truly wanted to write something different, like a little bit of it's a barcher from my
[6:11]previous books and, you know, a little bit maybe more high concept and a little more edgy.
[6:17]And I've always loved the song Hey There Delilah.
[6:21]And I feel like it's, I mean, every, every word in which I described it in the book was
[6:26]how I felt about it.
[6:27]This like sultry tune, it was just like you just feel, you know, his emotions and his
[6:31]affections for this woman.
[6:34]So of course being, you know, a curious writer, I went and researched, you know, what
[6:40]this is the real story was behind the song.
[6:43]And I don't know if you know, but there is a real Delilah.
[6:47]She went to Columbia.
[6:48]She was a track runner and he and Tom met her in a bar in Chicago.
[6:54]And my forgive, forgive me if I'm getting any of this wrong.
[6:57]So I, you know, it's all lining up for me.
[7:01]And so really that's all that matters, right?
[7:03]Yeah.
[7:04]Exactly.
[7:05]There's about velocity.
[7:06]So yeah, exactly.
[7:07]So Tom met Delilah at a bar.
[7:09]She had a boyfriend at the time and he may have said at some point, I'm going to write
[7:13]you a song.
[7:14]And he ended up writing her a song.
[7:15]And yeah, she had a boyfriend.
[7:17]And listen, I initially had some pushback from, you know, Asians and editors about this
[7:22]particular book is they're like, oh, well, you know, he was a stalker and how inappropriate
[7:27]to write a song for somebody that has a girlfriend.
[7:31]Yeah.
[7:32]But I still thought it was the most romantic gesture that anybody could do.
[7:35]Like honestly, like if someone wrote me a song, I just would be bold over and just
[7:40]appreciative and whatnot.
[7:43]And mind you, she didn't end up going to the Grammys with him.
[7:46]So it couldn't have been that uncomfortable.
[7:48]I think that was a really cool piece to it.
[7:50]Absolutely.
[7:51]That's a very good selling point.
[7:54]Exactly.
[7:55]So they didn't end up together.
[7:56]And I of course was disappointed about that.
[7:58]And I said, hmm, what would happen if I reimagined the story with holy different characters
[8:05]a holy different time period?
[8:07]You know, I stuck a over here, b over here, c over here.
[8:10]And I just, you know, I worked with the players and made a completely different ending.
[8:16]And you know, could I get the song, you know, lyric approvals and nightmare in our business?
[8:22]And a lot of the publishing houses don't want to touch it, which I understand.
[8:25]But I used to work in the music business.
[8:27]And my friend Doug Cohen, who I can't say enough about, big plug for Doug, he put me in touch
[8:33]with Tom and listen, I emailed him and I texted him probably a million times with no
[8:39]response.
[8:40]And I was like, oh my God, we're getting down to the wire and the publishing house, we're
[8:43]in edits.
[8:44]Like, do I have to change the title of the book, do I have to change, you know, whole passages
[8:47]of the book.
[8:49]And then Tom, all of a sudden, I still have the text, I've pictures of the text.
[8:54]He wrote me and he said, hey, I'm so sorry to keep you, you know, to delay you.
[8:58]He's like, can you talk later today?
[8:59]And I'm like, what do you think?
[9:03]Can you talk to later today?
[9:04]Nah, I'm getting my hair done.
[9:06]Can't do it.
[9:07]Exactly.
[9:08]Walking the dogs.
[9:09]But I was actually walking my dogs when we spoke and he was so warm and wonderful and
[9:16]just so appreciative and so humbled and, you know, I don't want to say too much about
[9:22]the forward.
[9:23]But well, first of all, he gave us, you know, he gave us the approval for the lyrics
[9:26]and we went through Warner Chapel and we really, I really wanted him to write a forward.
[9:32]So what was so beautiful about the forward is here we all look at, you know, Tom wrote
[9:37]this song.
[9:38]He's looking at us like authors like we wrote this book and he was just so humbled by the
[9:42]fact that that song had enough meaning to somebody to base an entire book upon it.
[9:49]And I think that really showed through in his, in his forward and he was just great.
[9:53]And, you know, now I've been stalking him and, you know, I make the jokes to him like
[10:00]You know, I'm going to fly you down to the launch event.
[10:02]You better come.
[10:04]I am your new stalker.
[10:08]I'm your stalker.
[10:08]I'm only have kidding.
[10:09]But don't worry.
[10:10]I'm not dangerous.
[10:11]I'm just fun.
[10:11]Exactly.
[10:12]And I'm not going to write a song about you.
[10:13]Don't worry.
[10:15]But he's been great.
[10:17]He's been great.
[10:18]Oh, the forward is one of my favorite parts of this book too
[10:22]because to your point, I don't think I ever appreciated years ago
[10:28]that songwriters really are storytellers.
[10:31]They are.
[10:32]And I don't know if you ever watched Songland.
[10:34]I'm now I would like to stalk Esther Dean who's just she was so
[10:39]fantastic on that show.
[10:40]But they were working on songs.
[10:42]And basically you're watching them go through a mini editing
[10:45]process, right?
[10:46]Where they're saying, okay, we need to bring this out and draw
[10:48]this down.
[10:48]And it was so fascinating to me.
[10:51]So I never appreciated that.
[10:53]But also I want to go back to one thing you said.
[10:56]And that was about the lyrics permissions because I have only
[11:00]dipped my toe in the permission space.
[11:03]And I came home and told my husband one day, like I'm never
[11:07]quoting one ever again.
[11:09]This is a nightmare.
[11:10]It's insane.
[11:11]I had no idea.
[11:12]So that was immediately the first thing I saw when I picked it
[11:15]up.
[11:15]I was like, oh my gosh, look at all these.
[11:17]Look at all these song titles.
[11:19]And just the research such a yeah, tell me how that.
[11:22]So you had support.
[11:24]And but obviously there was a lot of research.
[11:26]I mean, there are things that you moved.
[11:27]But a lot of this is true to the dates when the songs came out
[11:30]and all these things.
[11:31]So how did you manage that?
[11:33]You know what?
[11:34]It was so much fun for me.
[11:36]I mean, listen to combine music and books for me having been in
[11:41]the music industry.
[11:42]And music has defined me since such a young age and books
[11:45]have defined me for such a young age.
[11:47]It was so fascinating for me to do this research.
[11:49]This was this was as close to a historical fiction.
[11:52]I'll ever get it.
[11:56]Oh my god.
[11:56]What they do is so incredible.
[11:58]Oh my gosh.
[11:59]Yes.
[11:59]Yeah.
[12:00]I just it was so much fun and working with the timeline and the
[12:03]music in the 70s.
[12:04]And I had to go look at the Billboard charts.
[12:06]And it just just even delving into that research was so
[12:09]fascinating and so nostalgic for me.
[12:12]I was literally living.
[12:14]You know, someone said this this book sounds like the like the
[12:17]autobiography, the the soundtrack of your life.
[12:20]And it really, you know, I mean, there was a lot of the each
[12:25]chapter is a name of a it's a song with these persons name.
[12:30]And there's a ton out there.
[12:31]But I was very particular about the ones that I picked and so
[12:34]many of them just elicit so many incredible memories.
[12:37]And I think and I know we're going off tangent right now, but
[12:40]I love it.
[12:41]The research and all that it just shows you the absolute power
[12:46]of music and, you know, the power to transport and the power
[12:50]to bring you back in time and, you know, to have a book as a
[12:55]vehicle for that.
[12:56]I just feel like it's a double whammy.
[12:58]Absolutely.
[12:59]It really does present it in a way that I think allows readers
[13:04]to think about their own soundtrack because that's what I
[13:06]found myself thinking about or what are the songs because
[13:09]some of them are these and some of them are, you know, just the
[13:14]most random.
[13:15]I feel like when I sit down to make, you know, now it's a play
[13:18]list.
[13:19]I'm not making a mixing.
[13:20]That's just amazing to me to think about all the songs that
[13:24]encompass your life and where they come from.
[13:26]I mean, those discrete moments in time, there's something
[13:29]really special about that.
[13:31]I think also that obviously this is a big book community and
[13:35]a reading community.
[13:36]And I think as readers, we want to escape and we want to feel
[13:39]something and we get that from books and also music.
[13:43]The same thing.
[13:44]Sometimes we don't have the words, the phrases or the
[13:47]expressions to share what we're feeling.
[13:50]I know as a child, music and books did that for me.
[13:54]I was able to feel, understand, be transported to a certain
[13:58]place through those vehicles.
[14:00]So it really is incredible.
[14:02]The power of both.
[14:04]You are exactly right.
[14:06]It makes me emotional just thinking about it.
[14:08]What's a song for you that brings comfort?
[14:12]Trick question.
[14:13]Gosh, there's so many.
[14:16]I know that was mean.
[14:19]Pick your favorite child.
[14:21]I know right.
[14:22]It's funny to say it.
[14:23]Well, no, there's just there's different songs for different
[14:27]seasons and reasons.
[14:28]But the first thing that came to my mind, I'm laughing is
[14:31]well, there's two things.
[14:32]Okay.
[14:33]And this is going to sound so totally weird.
[14:35]But my son Jordan stumbling in, which is such an old song
[14:40]and it is so totally inappropriate for some weird wacky
[14:44]reason.
[14:44]I don't know why it is our song.
[14:46]And whenever we hear it, we like to take a picture of it,
[14:48]like if it's playing on serious or whatnot.
[14:50]And we just feel connected.
[14:52]And it has no significance.
[14:54]And then my other son Brandon, who will kill me for this,
[14:58]whenever he, my kids went to a Jewish day school from
[15:02]mommy and me till eighth grade.
[15:04]Okay.
[15:04]And when he comes home or when things are like tense in the
[15:10]house, like whole start, we have the Sonus, you know, the
[15:12]speakers in the house, all of a sudden, we'll start playing
[15:15]Matauville, which is this like Jewish song.
[15:19]It's in Hebrew.
[15:20]And listen, it's not even like we're the most religious
[15:23]family.
[15:23]Okay.
[15:24]That's not like it sure.
[15:25]The point of this and your question, I think, is to show you
[15:29]how that music connects.
[15:31]And this one, he plays that song.
[15:33]We all laugh.
[15:35]I'll be on the phone with some of my author friends.
[15:37]And they'll be like, oh my God, is Brandon playing
[15:39]Matauville again?
[15:40]I'm like, yeah, like, like it's just something that connects.
[15:44]And what a gift.
[15:45]Yes.
[15:47]It's so true.
[15:48]There's so much crossover.
[15:49]And you do it so well in this book.
[15:51]And I loved reading a little bit about you that you and you
[15:54]mentioned it earlier that you have a background in music.
[15:57]And you worked at the box, which is, by the way, the best
[16:00]title for anything I've ever heard.
[16:02]And I was like, that tells you all you need to know, right?
[16:05]So that was sort of your starting point.
[16:08]And also you, so you not only incorporate that, but there's
[16:11]also a lot of your journalism angle there, which I really
[16:15]enjoyed.
[16:15]Was it fun to kind of bring all these parts of your life
[16:19]together?
[16:19]I imagine this was kind of like a like we talked about a
[16:22]mixtape of your life, but there's something, you know,
[16:24]minorly autobiographical about it where you're pulling in
[16:27]all these sides of yourself that have existed.
[16:31]And they're coming together in this book.
[16:33]Well, that's why the next book that I just finished writing
[16:35]yesterday absolutely stinks because I don't have that
[16:38]same passion and excitement.
[16:40]Well, I do.
[16:41]But it's it's it's that book was so much fun to write.
[16:46]You know, it was challenging, you know, the red tape and what
[16:49]not, but that was not work that book that book this book
[16:53]it was just it was so much fun to write like and to delve
[16:59]back into that world.
[17:00]And I don't want to be in it right now for sure.
[17:02]It was great in my twenties.
[17:04]Yes, going to the Grammys, getting free CDs, all those
[17:07]perks are wonderful, but not now now I'm too old.
[17:10]And and this is like the perfect platform for me to dive back
[17:14]into the music business.
[17:15]But it was it was a it was a lot of fun.
[17:18]Oh, I bet.
[17:20]I was just telling someone the other day about remembering
[17:22]being part of Columbia music club where I got the 90 degrees
[17:26]for a penny or whatever it was.
[17:28]You remember that I forgot about that.
[17:32]I love that.
[17:34]I was thinking about it the other day.
[17:35]I was like, man, I remember getting that little catalog and
[17:38]just pouring through it.
[17:40]I mean, that was that was living right there.
[17:43]See our this generation has no idea what we when we still hear a
[17:46]song on the radio and used to race race to get your tape
[17:49]recorder so that you can press record and tape your favorite
[17:53]song.
[17:53]And then we there was no show.
[17:54]Sam we had no idea who the artist was and you know, it's so
[17:58]funny.
[17:58]Now also now they have like all the song lyrics and we didn't
[18:03]have that back then.
[18:04]So now all of a sudden I'm like, hey, wait a minute.
[18:07]I know those were the words to that song that I've been
[18:09]singing wrong for the last 20 years.
[18:12]I love that you brought that up.
[18:14]It is so true.
[18:16]And also sometimes when they look up the lyrics, I'm like,
[18:18]that is cheating.
[18:19]You have to listen to it 5,000 times and torture yourself.
[18:23]I get it wrong for years.
[18:26]Oh, we have so many of those stories in our family.
[18:29]I remember oh, and so your son will love what you mentioned
[18:32]my sister's going to love this.
[18:34]She or a while.
[18:36]What's your name?
[18:37]Come on.
[18:38]Well, her name is Amy.
[18:39]And since I wrote a memoir, she's already in there and I'm sure
[18:42]ruined her life in some ways.
[18:43]So we'll just continue on keep it.
[18:45]Keep it moving.
[18:46]Right.
[18:46]No, we had I remember this ridiculous conversation about I
[18:52]think it was a share song that she said, I think it might
[18:55]have been a remake, which was taxi taxi.
[18:57]And so she had done that.
[18:59]And my sister was convinced that it was terror to
[19:03]dactyl give me a ride.
[19:04]And I was like, I remember having this huge argument with
[19:08]her, you know, I mean, these were the things that we did
[19:11]in the 90s.
[19:11]Just like it was so easy.
[19:13]We're saying each other.
[19:15]It was so simple.
[19:16]I did write as one of my questions.
[19:18]What do you think our kids are missing from making a mix
[19:21]tape or some of all I'll be like a little bit on the
[19:24]cerebral side?
[19:25]I think they're missing.
[19:27]I think they're missing.
[19:28]They're missing the hard work and the determination
[19:32]and they're relying too much today on the instant gratification.
[19:35]So I don't really said that the right way.
[19:37]But I think it's instant gratification is just ruining
[19:40]the whole process.
[19:41]Some of the joy and, you know, is like, oh, I nailed it.
[19:47]I got the song.
[19:48]I made them so excited.
[19:49]Everything flowed perfectly.
[19:50]And you're just so proud of your efforts.
[19:52]Like you're so sufficient.
[19:54]You're doing this.
[19:55]You're not relying on somebody else to do it.
[19:57]I think that's missing a lot today.
[20:00]I mean, my goodness, like, I mean, there's so many things that we've been talking about like, the lyrics and it's, but yeah, I would say that the, the instant gratification has muddied the, the journey of, you know, of like unearthing that song and those lyrics. I remember,
[20:19]we, how about sitting at the tape recorder and hitting stock so you can write down the words and then play and then stop and then I have to rewind in a few beats. I mean, come on. That is just so satisfying to get it all down on the page.
[20:33]So satisfying. I remember also calling into the radio station and making the request and then waiting to push record so that I could catch it on tape. Like, there's so many, I mean, I will say instant gratification is also ruining me. So I don't mean to, you know, put the children in a box here, but like it, it is. There was something about that effort and it was like you were capturing a moment in time, which we don't have not because now we have access to it all the time.
[21:03]Look at your power. You had the power to catch that. Now someone else has the power. So yes, it's so true. Oh, I do. Yes, looking back, there are many things, but I do enjoy a good Sonos system and pulling it up on my spot.
[21:19]Sure, I do have to say there's so many wonderful things, right? But I've always said and and one of my older books, somebody's daughter was about a cybersexual, you know, in a middle school, high school situation, cell phone, digital technology.
[21:34]And I have always, always said that the internet, it's greatest trends are its greatest weaknesses. Yes, I could not agree more. It's so interesting to see that as a parent to right where it's like, there's so many, because my husband and I talk about this often when he decides that we're going to, you know, throw everyone's phones in the bathtub and stuff. So that's always fun.
[21:57]But it's just one of those things where I said, but look at how connected they are. I mean, they really do have a lot that that we didn't have so it's just.
[22:05]Yeah, I'm trying not to become an old foggy too soon, but it's like anything else with anything else in life. It's moderation.
[22:13]It's that there has to be a balance. Yes, let me evaluate my relationship to whatever this is. Yeah, you're exactly right.
[22:22]Let's talk about the book. How do you find your characters? Did they come to you? Do you write to discover them? I mean, what's your process like because you're now you've finished eight drafts, you know, seven books and one and one draft like what, what's your process?
[22:39]I think it's changed and evolved over time. I think it used to be my characters. They find me and then what ends up happening. And then this goes back to that ridiculous question that we all hate the plot or pants or, you know, I'm sure.
[22:53]And yeah, so I'm writing a book and I know my character and I know their, their journey. I know their goal. But then while I'm writing, they, they, they take me on their journey. Like it starts out where I'm in their head and then where I, it starts out where I know their story and then they hand over their story.
[23:15]It's interesting because this latest book, the eighth one that I'm writing, it's four point of views.
[23:22]This has been the hardest time I've ever had with characters and they didn't come to me as easily and it was much harder to write, not knowing upfront.
[23:31]And it usually, my point is usually I have the one pro tag and it's that woman's journey. Yes. And this time it was for separate characters being in their heads, all their individual journeys.
[23:44]Who, the, the, the big question, who are you rooting for. So it was tricky. It was challenging. But there's a little of both.
[23:53]Okay. That sounds interesting. I like the way that you said that that they're, I can kind of see the character, you know, you're sort of summoning them and then they're asking you to tell their story and so you're watching and unfold, even as you're writing it.
[24:08]Yeah, because as you're, as you're fleshing out your characters, you may have your own personal spin on it and it may have been your own personal like a little small part of you or someone you know, but then you're in character on the page.
[24:20]And you're, and the characters like no, no, no, no, no, I wouldn't do that. Like I would do this.
[24:26]I'm wondering if I'll be able to have enough distance. I started working on a novel, but I mean, I don't know what I'm doing, which is perfect for me actually, but I think I wonder about that if I'm because I might be like the tiniest bit of a control freak.
[24:40]I don't know for sure. You'll have to ask my family and they will say for sure I am. But there's such a letting go. There's such a holding, you're holding space for this imaginary person almost like it's fascinating to hear you describe it that way.
[24:54]Right. Oh, I really, I respect what people can do and you have done that really here. I also wanted to talk just briefly about there's a real sort of parent child relationship, obviously in this book and I feel like it relates to that, you know, closed doors or missed opportunities or missed connections that happen.
[25:22]As a result, not of a choice that we've made, but a choice perhaps that someone has made on our behalf or a choice that they made that had a waterfall effect.
[25:30]When you sit down to write a book like this, do you already have those themes in mind or those, do those come up as you explore the characters journey?
[25:37]I think there's like a global general theme like I knew I knew and I don't want to give too much money.
[25:45]Yeah. Yeah. So I knew that Cecilia was going to have this challenging relationship with her father and honestly, and this is to your point, your last question, I didn't know that big reveal was going.
[26:00]I did not. And as I was reading through the drafts and as I was editing, I felt that where the story went was much more in line with who Cecilia was and who ultimately done was and how this story could, you don't want to piss your, I mean, you don't want to have, you don't want to have the most likable characters all the time, but you don't want readers leaving and being like,
[26:28]asshole bitch like, oh, I didn't like her choices. Well, you know, you kind of, I don't want just the perfect pet ending, but I, I guess the point I'm trying to say is that
[26:40]relationships are so layered and so multifaceted and so, you know, pulling away the layers of the onion and not everything is always as it seems or we imagine it to be.
[26:53]So I like to show those gray areas in those familial relationships. You do an excellent job with that. There is a lot of great.
[27:03]But there's a lot of, there's a lot of heaviness and challenge when it comes to family relationships, but I think seeing pieces of redemption for all of us is always, it's always something I look for in books because it just is,
[27:22]it leaves you your exactly right, not everything is tidy or tied up neatly or fixed, but perhaps a small part of it remains hopeful and that can feel so wonderful.
[27:34]Like I don't know if this makes sense, but Don James like whatever type of redemption here he may or may not have had that influenced Cecilia ultimately. Yes, so it could be somebody else's journey that, you know, influences yours and the ability to see that no one in our lives is perfect.
[27:55]It's so true. But what about me because I feel like I kind of am in my life. Yes, everyone else is a disaster and I am just doing great.
[28:05]And my husband is sitting like across the room and he's laughing and he's saying, I love her.
[28:12]Oh, best friendship engage. We already said it. I mean, it's happening. So this is great. Yeah, it's such a challenge to see things honestly. And I think that's such a beauty in your fiction and in fiction in general, but you do a really good job of
[28:28]presenting those angles with a soft touch that doesn't feel too oversimplified and also doesn't feel too rigid like, hey, this is a disaster and it's never going to work. Right. So I go I go safety. I try to be safe.
[28:44]You know, we all need to just sometimes get right down the middle of the fairway. Right. There's no there's no need to be over in the bunker.
[28:52]What is your hope for this book? So this is your I mean, this is your seventh book like each I'm sure each one is different. And like we've said this one that has a special place in your heart.
[29:03]What's your what would you love to see when it comes out.
[29:06]My husband says movie.
[29:09]Well, yes, I mean, I agree with that and I second that because so much of this translates so well. I mean, it's so funny because that wasn't my answer.
[29:17]You know, a lot of authors are like, they have a very specific goal. I manage expectations. That's how I get through this this career.
[29:26]I feel like my life is really balanced book and and family life. And I don't let myself get to my editor will disagree. I don't let myself get too bogged down. But I just want people to enjoy it. I want them to be transported. I want them to have fun.
[29:42]I want them to remember a song that really influenced them. I just I want them to have that nostalgic moment that we all love when we hear a song that you know brings us back to childhood and I guess the word that keeps coming to my mind is I just want everybody to have fun with it.
[30:00]because it was so much fun to write.
[30:01]I can't wait for this book to be out.
[30:03]Thanks for being on today.
[30:04]And for just sharing this joy with me,
[30:08]I have no doubt that people will have fun with this book
[30:10]because I've had so much fun talking to you about it.
[30:13]I mean, it's just part of what you've created
[30:16]and given in the world.
[30:18]So I can't wait for people to explore it.
[30:19]Thank you so much.
[30:20]I really appreciate it.
[30:22]My pleasure.
[30:24]Thanks for listening to this episode
[30:26]of Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[30:28]Don't forget to follow me on Instagram,
[30:30]at Zebie Owens, and at Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[30:33]Also sign up for my newsletter at zebie Owens.com
[30:35]and sign up for my virtual book club
[30:37]and meet lots of authors on Zoom every other week.
[30:39]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan,
[30:41]in fact, texture sound for the sound editing.
[30:43]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions
[30:45]for providing this fantastic intro and out trim music.