Angela Brown, OLIVIA STRAUSS IS RUNNING OUT OF TIME
[0:02]Hi, I'm Zippy Owens, and you're listening to moms don't have time to read books.
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[0:57]Enjoy.
[1:03]Angela Brown is the author of Olivia Strauss is running out of time.
[1:07]A novel.
[1:08]And this is my January book club pick for Zippy's book club.
[1:12]I loved this novel and you will too.
[1:15]Angela's writing has appeared in The New York Times, Real Simple, and other publications.
[1:19]She holds an MFA from Farley Dickinson University.
[1:22]Angela lives in New Jersey with her husband and two young children, where she's currently
[1:25]at work on her second novel.
[1:27]Welcome Angela.
[1:28]Thank you so much for coming.
[1:30]And most of the time, to read books to discuss Olivia Strauss is running out of time.
[1:34]Thank you so much for having me on Thrill to be here.
[1:37]This is very exciting.
[1:38]This is really kind of the first time I'm talking about Olivia.
[1:42]So I'm just thrilled to talk about the book and the story and writing and all that fun
[1:46]stuff.
[1:47]Well, as I was just saying to you, and this is the January book club pick for Zippy's
[1:53]book club.
[1:54]And I'm so excited.
[1:55]Like the idea of the book when I saw it was like, oh, this is such a good idea.
[1:58]And I was really drawn in by your voice and you're writing.
[2:02]And I just haven't been able to stop thinking about it.
[2:04]And that's like the greatest kind of book, you know, just makes you think about your
[2:08]own life a little bit differently and live a little bit differently.
[2:10]I mean, that's powerful stuff.
[2:12]So anyway, thank you very much.
[2:14]I'm so glad that you enjoyed it.
[2:15]And I'm so thrilled to be for the January book club picks.
[2:19]Yeah.
[2:20]Okay.
[2:21]So let's back up.
[2:23]What is this book about?
[2:25]Okay.
[2:26]The book is about a woman named Olivia Strauss, who she's really just kind of, in my
[2:30]opinion, an everyday suburban mom.
[2:34]She has what I would call a really great life, right?
[2:36]She has a stable job.
[2:38]She has this wonderful husband and marriage, this adorable son, young son, Tommy, who
[2:42]I had so much fun writing.
[2:43]And it was very, very so cute.
[2:46]And on the sort, she really kind of has everything that one should have to be happy.
[2:51]But when the novel opens, she's sort of staring this milestone 40th birthday in the face.
[2:57]And she's feeling really conflicted about it.
[2:59]She feels like there are all these boxes in her life that she probably should have had
[3:03]checked off by now on different goals she'd set for herself.
[3:08]And she kept putting them off because she felt like she still had time to do them.
[3:12]But now here she is.
[3:13]She's nearly 40.
[3:14]And she's sort of facing this fact that maybe I'm running out of time, like maybe
[3:18]these windows for these dreams and goals are kind of closing.
[3:21]So as a gag, her best friend, Marion, who is her polar opposite in every imaginable way,
[3:27]decides to take her to this trendy wellness clinic whose founder claims to have created
[3:32]this genetic test that can tell you the exact date of your death.
[3:36]So they go thinking it's just going to be like this fun girlfriends outing, you know,
[3:41]and when Olivia gets her results, they're not quite the results that she was expecting.
[3:46]So from there, the rest of the novel sort of forces Olivia and hopefully us as readers
[3:51]too, to think about the question, if you found out tomorrow that you had a very short
[3:57]window left to live, but you weren't sick, there was nothing wrong, like you could still
[4:01]get up and live your life so to speak every day, what would you change?
[4:05]Would you completely rewrite the script and, you know, just do everything over?
[4:10]Would you realize how good you had it already?
[4:12]Would you kind of find some hybrid in between those two things?
[4:15]And just sort of thinking about what it means to be middle-aged.
[4:21]And what that means is it over, do we still have time and all of those things?
[4:26]I feel like we're in need of a serious rebrand of middle age.
[4:29]I mean, it doesn't, I keep thinking about my grandmother, you know, when I was like a little
[4:33]girl, like I don't feel like I'm middle-aged at all, obviously we are, but there needs
[4:38]to be a better name.
[4:40]I joke on that, I mean, not joking, but you know, in a joking sort of way with people
[4:44]all the time, I'm 41, so my first, my debut will be coming out, I'm 41.5, I just had
[4:51]my second child not too long ago, like I was getting started in a lot of ways, but like
[4:56]you said it's funny, I can remember being a kid and, you know, people, you know, that my
[5:01]parents or people that they knew when they turned 40, oh, so old, I feel, you know, it's
[5:09]a really good time in life.
[5:10]So yeah, I mean, I remember going to my mom's 40th birthday party and the duress that
[5:15]I wore and like, I mean, you know, she was like, you know, 40, I'm 47 now, I'm like,
[5:20]my debut is going out at 47, like you have nothing, you know, I think 40, we're just
[5:27]getting started all of us, right?
[5:28]I mean, it's when you're hitting your prime in a lot of ways, like your kids are usually
[5:34]a little bit older, not yours, I guess, but you know, you've learned enough.
[5:37]He's getting there.
[5:38]That's the wisdom.
[5:39]I don't know.
[5:40]No, it's a good, it's a good time.
[5:43]I am team late bloomers, you know, I think it's great.
[5:48]Well, speaking of that, let's go back for a second again and that I want to know, like
[5:53]who you are, where are you from?
[5:56]How did you get into writing?
[5:57]Like, what's your life story?
[5:58]Sure.
[5:59]So I live in New Jersey, I was joking with you before my backyard and make you think we're
[6:04]in Vermont or something, but no, I'm in New Jersey, not too far.
[6:07]outside of the city.
[6:08]I bounced around for, you know, college and things like that, but mostly I've spent
[6:12]most of my life here in New Jersey.
[6:14]I think my story is probably typical of a lot of writers, like I've just wanted to write
[6:18]my entire life.
[6:20]That has always, always, always been my thing, you know, my mom can vouch for it, you
[6:25]know, when I was a little girl, library trips in the whole thing and high school, I was
[6:29]always the one writing, you know, teenage poetry and the lit journals and all that.
[6:33]It's just always been very much who I am and what I love.
[6:37]I went to school up in Vermont, University of Vermont and I studied English.
[6:42]After that, I came back to this area, I worked in the city for a short time.
[6:46]That's a big question I've gone from early every year, I was like, oh, did you live in
[6:49]the city and because a lot of the setting is there?
[6:52]But no, I just, I worked there for a little bit and then I realized I did not love what
[6:56]I was doing and I ran as fast as I could in my April grand, like sprint into an MFA program.
[7:03]And I studied nonfiction writing in my MFA program, which I loved and I did some freelance
[7:08]stuff here and there with magazines periodically, but really when I finished my MFA, I never
[7:13]in a million years thought I would end up teaching.
[7:15]I thought I would just go right into writing and I had this wonderful professor who's
[7:20]like, you know, I think you might be kind of good at working with people and teaching
[7:24]this.
[7:25]I did not see myself at all, but I took his advice in any way.
[7:28]I taught for, I guess like 15 years and had a great experience and then I wrote several
[7:36]books before Olivia that will live in a drawer forever, right?
[7:39]But then then I wrote Olivia and now here we are.
[7:42]So like I'm shopping my head around it.
[7:46]The ones that are in a drawer, did you try to sell them or you knew they were like starter
[7:51]books or what?
[7:54]I did try a part of it's funny, like I'm a big believer now on the other side and I think
[8:01]I've always probably been a big believer in rejection and how important it is in probably
[8:07]any artistic field, particularly in writing a lot of how I got to Olivia was there another
[8:13]book that I wrote that got rejected.
[8:16]So when I had, so I have two kids, I have my daughter had Leah seven and my son Augie is
[8:21]just shy of one and a half.
[8:22]And when I was on maternity leave with my daughter, I was like, you know, it was the busiest
[8:28]while this time, but I was also so surprised there was also a lot of just quiet time,
[8:33]right?
[8:34]She was sleeping on me and you know, we couldn't get up and do all the things.
[8:38]Like I was just sitting and I thought, well, what if this is a window I have to maybe
[8:42]like tinker around with writing a bit?
[8:44]So anyway, so I started while she was on maternity leave it took much longer than that.
[8:48]I wrote a draft for a very different novel, like different voice, different topic, like
[8:52]all the things.
[8:54]And I sent it out into the world and it was funny, like it wasn't immediately rejected.
[9:02]It was the opposite.
[9:03]I was getting all of these responses from agents that I love this premise and you know,
[9:08]semi the first 50s, semi the first 100.
[9:11]So it was funny.
[9:12]It almost might have been better if they were just flat out like, absolutely not.
[9:15]But there was this flicker of hope there like, oh man, this might be this might be
[9:19]the one, right?
[9:21]So anyway, I kept sending it out and sending it out and ultimately in the end, everyone
[9:26]passed on it.
[9:27]And if I can like keep going, that's kind of how I ended up going.
[9:30]Yes.
[9:31]I wanted to know every detail, so yes, so that book ended up getting finally.
[9:38]So this is, so we're going back to 2019 now, right?
[9:42]That book had been just rejected by everyone.
[9:44]And I think the fact that it was getting, I wasn't just getting four rejections right
[9:50]away, right?
[9:51]Like there was some flicker of hope.
[9:52]Like I said, when I finally had those last agents on my spreadsheet that said no, it was
[10:00]because I don't piece of me just died.
[10:02]I was just so defeated.
[10:06]I mean, I really was.
[10:08]And it was because of a lot of things.
[10:10]One, I'd been trying for a long time.
[10:11]There were much worse drafts at a drawer,
[10:13]but we won't talk about that.
[10:15]But I'd been trying.
[10:17]And at that point, again, my daughter
[10:20]was heading off into preschool.
[10:22]So life was kind of taking on a new shape.
[10:24]We were in a new season.
[10:25]We were just getting busier.
[10:27]And I was getting old, you know, life just gets hectic.
[10:30]And I just was struck by this really real fear.
[10:34]Like, I'm not going to have the time to do this again.
[10:37]Like, writing a book is, it's a marathon.
[10:40]It's really serious work.
[10:41]It takes so much time and energy to thinking.
[10:44]And I just didn't have, I didn't think I had that space.
[10:47]So I was really defeated.
[10:49]And so that was kind of like happening over here.
[10:53]And then over here, I had, like I said, my daughter,
[10:57]as a mom, maybe I'm sure you can relate to this, right?
[11:00]Like, she was heading off into preschool.
[11:02]And I just remember it being this really heartfelt time
[11:06]for me where all of a sudden, I just
[11:08]wanted to press the pause button
[11:10]because time was going so fast.
[11:12]And I feel like when you look at time
[11:14]through the scope of your children,
[11:17]it was just like I blinked.
[11:18]And she was went from diapers to being in school
[11:21]with her little book bag.
[11:22]And it was just like time is just moving and moving and moving
[11:25]and moving, right?
[11:26]So all of these things were going on.
[11:28]And on top of that, because of my age,
[11:32]it was very funny.
[11:33]I was just at this point, nothing was wrong or any of that.
[11:37]But just because of my age, it was the first time in my life.
[11:39]And I'm very fortunate to be able to say that.
[11:41]But where I would go for a doctor's visit.
[11:44]And instead of my physician saying, pet on the head,
[11:48]go and start, everything's perfect.
[11:49]See you in a year.
[11:50]I was like, we should see a specialist
[11:53]about this just in case because you're not that young anymore.
[11:55]And it was just that whole year.
[11:57]It felt like all of these things were happening.
[12:00]And all of a sudden, this idea probably
[12:03]had just sort of came out of them.
[12:05]So that was a very long answer to a rather simple question
[12:08]you both have.
[12:09]But really, I think the rejection of that first novel
[12:14]that we'll live forever in a drawer
[12:17]is kind of how I ended up here.
[12:19]So I attribute a lot of it to that rejection.
[12:22]So honestly, it's all part of the process.
[12:27]I mean, it doesn't feel like it at the time.
[12:28]But everything leads up to something else,
[12:31]leads up to something else.
[12:32]And if you don't give up, it makes sense later.
[12:36]But not necessarily in the moment when it's very upsetting.
[12:39]Yes, it has been very much like looking back,
[12:43]realizing how important all of those things were.
[12:46]And just like the timing of everything.
[12:49]And then wait, so to finish that part of it.
[12:53]So you all of that, then you wrote Olivia,
[12:55]and then it filled right away.
[12:57]I mean, it was fast and slow, I think, right?
[12:59]Like, so I started, I came up with the idea
[13:04]around the end of 2019.
[13:06]And I wrote what ended up being that very first page
[13:09]at the end of 2019.
[13:10]I thought I was like writing a poem or something.
[13:12]And then I was just thinking, I love this voice.
[13:14]I think the story's there, right?
[13:16]So shortly thereafter is when quarantine,
[13:20]everything happened.
[13:21]My job went remote and I was home.
[13:23]And again, timing, there's no coincidences, right?
[13:27]It's my mother would say, so I wrote it mostly
[13:30]during 2020 and into early 2021.
[13:34]And then I kind of did exactly what I think my protagonist
[13:38]sort of done, it's like, I sat on it for a couple of months
[13:42]because I was, I think I just really loved this story
[13:46]and I was so nervous it would get rejected
[13:48]because I just, I loved it so very much.
[13:51]So I waited around for a couple of months
[13:52]and kept telling myself, all right, maybe in a few months,
[13:54]I'll send it out.
[13:55]Maybe I should just look at it again and pop up.
[13:57]And then in the fall of 2021,
[13:59]I found out I was pregnant with my son.
[14:01]And I was just thinking, we are about to get so busy again.
[14:05]We're gonna have a new version again, oh my gosh.
[14:07]So this one afternoon, I had a very quiet day.
[14:11]I was caught up at work and I said,
[14:14]I'm sending one email, that is it.
[14:16]I'm sending it to the agency that I really want to be at.
[14:19]And I did and I thought, I will never hear from anyone again
[14:22]and know it was like 20 minutes later,
[14:24]I got a response send it over.
[14:26]And a few weeks later, we chatted and my agent
[14:31]and I worked on a round of edits for a couple of months.
[14:37]We got it in before my son was born.
[14:39]And then right after he was born, she sent it out.
[14:43]And it was really, I think, I don't know.
[14:45]Like just a couple of short weeks.
[14:46]I remember it being very fast, all of a sudden like,
[14:50]oh my gosh, this is happening.
[14:51]You're writing books now.
[14:53]So I was so exciting.
[14:55]I love hearing all of that because it's so inspiring
[14:58]and you just like feel your joy
[15:01]when you then have the book in your hand.
[15:03]So it's very thanks for sharing the backstory.
[15:05]Absolutely.
[15:06]Like, well, again, it's a funny thing
[15:08]because I think so much of my own backs.
[15:11]I mean, I think all writers bring, you know,
[15:13]their own lives and pieces of their hearts
[15:15]right to the pages.
[15:16]But there's so much in this that really
[15:20]was kind of a reflection of my own life
[15:22]at the time and stuff.
[15:23]So it's fun to talk about and see how it all came together.
[15:26]So what are your views?
[15:28]If you did find out,
[15:31]if you did get your death date or whatever, you know.
[15:35]So I do not know of any tests like this that exists.
[15:38]I don't know what I want to if it magically does somewhere.
[15:42]I don't think I would.
[15:44]I think the anticipation of it would,
[15:49]I don't know, make me not do anything.
[15:51]I think it would have the opposite effect on me, maybe.
[15:54]So I think it probably not.
[15:55]But I think just the idea, it was funny
[15:59]like writing this book and thinking about a character
[16:02]who's faced with that question,
[16:04]kind of thinking like, I don't ever want to be faced with that.
[16:07]But thinking about what she is to think about
[16:09]by being faced with that question,
[16:11]just thinking about your perspective on life,
[16:13]just changing and just, you know,
[16:16]whether you know a date or not, right?
[16:19]Just the idea of none of us ever do know.
[16:23]Like, you know, so what could happen
[16:25]and just trying to find more positivity and gratitude
[16:30]and just taking chances.
[16:33]And I don't know, it took me a while to get to that point.
[16:36]So I kind of like this point in life now.
[16:38]And, you know, just being more aware of that
[16:42]on the day to day, I think.
[16:43]Yes, I think when you are aware of mortality,
[16:47]whether through writing all novel, analyzing it
[16:51]or going through laws or illness
[16:54]or whatever it is that gets you there,
[16:56]it changes sort of the, it's like the lighting changes.
[16:59]Like there's someone in the light box back there.
[17:01]And you're just, you just have like kind of a different light
[17:03]and to see the world through.
[17:04]So yeah, but I think, by the way,
[17:07]I think I would totally want to know.
[17:09]Would you?
[17:11]Yeah, I like to plan.
[17:12]I would not like to, not like trips, trips,
[17:15]I plan last minute, but like I just like to know
[17:18]when I'm doing what and be able to say goodbye
[17:21]and prepare the people I love
[17:22]and like get everything in order, you know?
[17:25]Because those are some of the things I worry about.
[17:27]It's like I won't have time to do all the things
[17:30]I need to do with the very end
[17:31]because it's going to be so instantaneous.
[17:33]Maybe, who knows?
[17:34]So I might not quit, but.
[17:37]Question to think about, right?
[17:39]No, it doesn't exist as of yet, right?
[17:42]So, well, the relationship between Olivia
[17:46]and Marianne, Marianne, Marianne.
[17:48]Marianne, Marianne was so well written.
[17:50]And just like the ups and downs of female friendship
[17:54]and when you're closer, when you're not closer,
[17:56]when you're resenting the person,
[17:58]when you're cheering for the person,
[17:59]it's like all wrapped up in one.
[18:01]And you know, I won't talk about the ending,
[18:03]but you know, you just wrote everything just beautifully.
[18:07]Tell me about writing this relationship.
[18:10]Is it modeled on a friend of yours?
[18:11]What was it designed to show all of that?
[18:14]So it is not modeled after a friend of mine.
[18:17]I do not have many friends at all like Marianne,
[18:20]probably the opposite, right?
[18:22]The way that should be a lot of fun to be friends with.
[18:25]Are you more friends with the wine drinking group
[18:27]down the block?
[18:28]Is that what we are here?
[18:30]Probably more my crew.
[18:31]Okay, we just saw her mom's, yeah.
[18:33]Oh, the neighborhood, right?
[18:35]You know, it's really, really funny.
[18:36]And I'll tell you a story.
[18:38]When I sat down to write the book,
[18:40]I knew what I wanted to happen with Olivia.
[18:42]I knew what I wanted to happen with a test.
[18:44]And I had like this shadow of an idea of a friend,
[18:48]but I wasn't when I sat down entirely sure
[18:52]how she was gonna play in just yet.
[18:54]And I remember when I wrote the early pages,
[18:57]the first like 50 to 100 pages of the book is pretty pure
[19:01]from like how I wrote it originally, first draft.
[19:04]But there was like the first descriptive scene I wrote
[19:07]with Marianne and it tells a little bit about like
[19:09]how they first met and like just this night
[19:11]and I just visualized her and all of a sudden
[19:14]she just came so alive to me.
[19:16]And I was like, I have to play around with this character.
[19:17]I love this character.
[19:19]And I'm just a few pages in, but no,
[19:21]so she's not modeled after anyone.
[19:23]But I do think I wanted to show this,
[19:26]not just through her,
[19:27]I think through the women in the neighborhood too,
[19:28]just like what female friendship looks like
[19:32]at a certain age?
[19:34]Because it just, it changes, it changes with careers,
[19:37]it changes with when you have children,
[19:40]when you choose not to have children,
[19:41]like all of the different things and just what,
[19:44]what does that friendship still look like?
[19:47]Like I think between Olivia and Marianne,
[19:48]there's a lot of them that hopefully came across the page.
[19:52]They're still old college buddies, right?
[19:54]Like you can see parts of their girlhood
[19:56]kind of in their friendship, but then they've made them.
[20:00]really different choices in life.
[20:02]They have incredibly different lives.
[20:03]And so like, what does that do when one woman has, you know,
[20:07]this super cool eccentric city dweller and the other is, you know,
[20:12]just like the soccer mom.
[20:14]So to speak.
[20:15]So yeah, I just kind of wanted to play around with that notion
[20:17]a bit.
[20:18]Like it's the grass is always greener train of.
[20:20]Yeah, right.
[20:21]What if my life, you know, it's like the sliding doors.
[20:24]What if my life had gone that way?
[20:25]What if I hadn't done this?
[20:26]What if I hadn't done that?
[20:28]To very different, very different lives.
[20:30]Exactly.
[20:31]And you also wrote so in such a realistic and endearing way
[20:36]about marriage and what it's like being married with small
[20:41]children.
[20:41]And it was very, you know, it was like good.
[20:46]Thank you.
[20:46]Here you go, right?
[20:47]Like a lot of some more literary depictions are not like in it.
[20:53]Right?
[20:53]You were in it in this book.
[20:55]So that was refreshing to say thank you very, very much.
[21:00]Yeah, I wanted to create.
[21:01]I mean, so I should say my husband is the good parts of Andy,
[21:05]or my husband has been so wonderful spouse and father and friend
[21:09]and like all the things, but he's not a literary guy.
[21:11]Like there are nothing alike.
[21:13]But I wanted so much to create a marriage that did kind of feel
[21:18]real or at least what to me feels real.
[21:21]And so we have this is running joke in our house for years
[21:25]where my husband will often ask me, you know,
[21:28]he'll like happen to our room and I was sitting there reading a
[21:30]book at night.
[21:31]Oh, what are you reading about?
[21:32]And then he'll say, let me guess.
[21:34]It's about a woman who realizes she's totally unsatisfied
[21:37]with her life.
[21:38]So she gets up and leaves and like runs off somewhere or something.
[21:43]And often my answer is like, well, I mean, it's like a little bit
[21:46]about that.
[21:47]Right?
[21:48]No, you know, I'm generalizing obviously for humor.
[21:53]But a lot of times when we read stories about women sort of on the
[21:58]cusp of something, you know, there's that desire to flee, right?
[22:04]And that's great.
[22:05]I love these books so much.
[22:06]I have all of them.
[22:07]But I really wanted to create a story that felt more authentic to my
[22:11]own life.
[22:12]Like I've never had that desire to flee.
[22:16]I love my marriage.
[22:17]It's the best.
[22:19]I love my home.
[22:20]I love being a mother.
[22:21]My kids are, you know, the center of everything to me in a very
[22:25]positive way, they inspire me.
[22:28]And so anyway, so I'm getting off a bit, but I wanted to write
[22:32]about, well, what does that look like for that woman?
[22:35]The one who does have a good life and doesn't want to leave it.
[22:39]But where's the room for her to still kind of like change and
[22:42]evolve while maintaining that life?
[22:45]So yeah, the marriage part was important to me to capture it like
[22:48]real and not too perfect, but not too flawed, just, you know, like we're eating spaghetti
[22:54]on the couch tonight.
[22:55]Like that's just what we're doing.
[22:56]Like that kind of stuff.
[22:58]I just need your husband.
[23:00]So this is a very funny story.
[23:01]My husband and I are childhood friends.
[23:04]We met on our very, very first day, very first period of high school in the
[23:10]back of our English class.
[23:12]Oh my gosh.
[23:13]Look at that.
[23:14]It was very funny.
[23:16]And we were just, you know, friendly in that way that, you know, most people who are in
[23:19]the same grade in high school are friends.
[23:21]And then later in our, I guess, like mid 20s, we randomly ran into each other.
[23:27]And that was kind of it as they say, right?
[23:30]Oh, that's so nice.
[23:31]Yeah.
[23:32]Yeah.
[23:33]The books about women fleeing and by the way, my husband always makes fun of me
[23:37]because it's like, I always read books about people who have just lost their
[23:41]husbands, right?
[23:42]Like, you know, widowhood or ever.
[23:44]And then finally, I was reading a book literally called Future Widow.
[23:48]And he's like, okay, do you have to do I, is there anything I should know here?
[23:51]You know, like, what are some of the ones that, you know, women on the
[23:57]brink?
[23:58]Like, are there a couple that you're like, this is like the epitome of book
[24:01]that I, you know, the genre that I like or whatever?
[24:04]Oh gosh.
[24:06]So many.
[24:07]I'm going to blank out on all of them.
[24:08]I think like, he definitely always jokes with me about like, he calls every
[24:12]book I'm reading.
[24:13]He pray love.
[24:14]Like, just, yeah.
[24:15]Yeah.
[24:16]Always that's always like the go-it's new.
[24:19]I don't know.
[24:20]I mean, there are just, I was talking with somebody about this the other day,
[24:23]and you're like, this must be a really exciting time to be publishing a book
[24:27]because there are just so many amazing new works of women's literature that are out
[24:34]there.
[24:35]I don't know if I have like a perfect answer.
[24:37]I just, I'm reading amazing Grace Adams right now, which I feel probably fall
[24:42]into that category.
[24:44]Yeah.
[24:45]I just, I love, love, love her voice.
[24:46]I probably believe might go too right now.
[24:49]See.
[24:50]Yeah.
[24:51]And are you writing something else at this point or just enjoying this ride?
[24:56]Or so I just on Thursday submitted my second book.
[25:01]Wow.
[25:03]So I'm not, she may not even have read it yet by this point.
[25:06]It is just like days old.
[25:09]So yeah.
[25:10]So I just submitted that.
[25:11]So I'll be able to share details about that soon.
[25:14]So that was really exciting.
[25:17]I went from finishing Olivia to starting a new book.
[25:20]It's kind of, I don't know.
[25:22]I feel like I hit the jackpot sometimes like it's just, I went from no
[25:26]books to no two and it's it's very, very exciting.
[25:29]So now I'm just taking some time to think about all right.
[25:33]Well, what comes next?
[25:34]Like what kind of thing do you want to do?
[25:36]And I don't know.
[25:37]It's a good problem to have, right?
[25:39]Yes.
[25:40]Very good problem to have.
[25:42]So yeah.
[25:44]What advice do you have for aspiring authors?
[25:47]Oh, jeez.
[25:48]So I guess the main ticket would be something that was really, really
[25:51]a value to me is setting a deadline for yourself, right?
[25:56]Because if you are going to write professionally, you're going to have deadlines.
[25:59]So why not get used to them now, right?
[26:01]But setting some kind of deadline that works around your own life and whatever,
[26:06]you know, whatever that might be.
[26:08]And then sort of trying to chip away at it little by little each day.
[26:12]I think the idea of writing a book is so daunting.
[26:16]And it just when you're, when you write that first sentence, the idea of
[26:20]ever possibly arriving at the last sentence just feels so overwhelming, right?
[26:25]So I think if you can set a deadline and say, you know, by next summer, and then just
[26:30]sort of like backwards plan.
[26:31]And you know, every day I'm going to write 500 words or 200 words.
[26:36]It doesn't have to be a big goal, but just to make it something that's of value to
[26:43]you and your day, not something that you keep putting off because you got you busy.
[26:47]So just something like a small goal and trying to commit to it, you know, that was, that
[26:51]was the main thing with me when I wrote Olivia was once I set out to do it, I was like,
[26:55]you were going to write every single solitary day until it's done.
[26:58]And that could be one sentence, that could be one page, that could be one chapter because
[27:02]some days are really busy and some days are not.
[27:04]So I think that's really valuable.
[27:07]And then the other thing I'd probably say goes back to kind of where we started with
[27:10]rejection.
[27:11]And I actually wrote about this briefly in my acknowledgement section, it was advice that
[27:15]was given to me.
[27:16]So I feel like I have to pay it forward and pass it on to by an old MFA professor who
[27:20]said early on, get a folder for yourself, and every single rejection you get, save it.
[27:27]And you know, they're just going to be like tear them up and throw them away or something.
[27:31]But save them because if you keep compiling rejections, what that means is not only that
[27:37]you're getting rejected, but that you're continuing to work at this.
[27:40]And that it still does mean something because you're putting the time and the effort
[27:43]and the thought into it.
[27:45]And eventually if you're doing that one day, it's not going to be a rejection that you
[27:51]see, it's going to be an acceptance and you'll want to sit down and look back at that
[27:56]paper trail of, you know, that proof of how hard and how long you've worked at this.
[28:02]And I did do that when I sold the book, I sat down with a nice cup of coffee and read
[28:07]through my rejections and I was so happy that I had them when I did.
[28:12]I kept my rejections from the first novel I tried to sell in like 2005 or something crazy.
[28:19]And the other day, I sat down on the floor and read them out loud.
[28:23]And I think I put the video on YouTube or something and I was just like, look, let me
[28:26]just read you these rejections here.
[28:28]You know?
[28:29]It's true.
[28:30]They are so important.
[28:31]They feel terrible at the time, but the time does come when they take on good value.
[28:36]Yeah.
[28:37]True.
[28:38]I'm so excited for you.
[28:39]I feel like we barely scratched the surface of the book.
[28:42]I'm sorry.
[28:43]I was curious about you as a person.
[28:44]No, I'm too late.
[28:45]And I don't want to give things away, but it's very innovative and thought provoking.
[28:52]And you know, it's very visual.
[28:54]I feel like I could see this spot and try back our, no, Brooklyn somewhere.
[28:58]Like I could just see that like in just, you know, I could just see the scenes in the
[29:01]house and, you know, all of it, the where Marion lived and it's just like you created
[29:07]all these scenes in my head, which now I look at this and then they all kind of fluttering
[29:10]back.
[29:11]It's like magic, the way.
[29:12]So, you know, it's so, it's so hard.
[29:14]I really appreciate that a ton.
[29:16]Uh-oh.
[29:17]Well, you know, if there's anything you need, not that I'm much further down this path
[29:21]in you, any questions, launch anything?
[29:24]Let me know.
[29:25]Yeah.
[29:26]I hope to meet you soon.
[29:27]I know I'll see you in January.
[29:28]I'll see you in the January.
[29:29]Yeah.
[29:30]And you look at you with your novel, your March, I think, right?
[29:32]Yes.
[29:33]Really.
[29:34]Yes.
[29:35]I've got a ways.
[29:37]Feeling excited or?
[29:38]I'm feeling excited.
[29:39]Yeah.
[29:40]After an hour, I'm like, whatever, you know, like, I spilled my guts to the world.
[29:43]I was, you know, I'm just like, okay, this is fun.
[29:47]This is now fun.
[29:48]So you don't like it.
[29:49]I love the premise.
[29:51]I can't again, as a writer and somebody who just turned in another round of places is
[29:56]great.
[29:57]I can't wait.
[29:58]I'm like, living it now, because I can't figure out what to write.
[30:00]time so I'm like I'm like literally living what this situation I created but anyway well I
[30:05]considered you if you ever want to read it so oh sure it's a lighted do I would love to anyway
[30:10]okay congratulations and I'll see you soon I wish you all the best with this book I'm so
[30:15]glad we had the chance to connect thanks a ton for your time thank you I mean it's your
[30:19]first of in January okay okay thank you guys it's fun okay bye thanks for listening to this episode
[30:26]of moms don't have time to read books don't forget to follow me on Instagram at zebiowens
[30:31]and at moms don't have time to read books also sign up for my newsletter at zebiowens.com
[30:36]and sign up for my virtual book club and meet lots of authors on zoom every other week thanks so
[30:40]much to Steve and Ryan in fact texture sound for the sound editing and thank you to morning moon
[30:45]productions for providing this fantastic intro and out trim music