Jessica Saunders, LOVE, ME
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[1:03]Jessica Saunders is the author of Love Me, a novel.
[1:07]Jessica is a lawyer whose dream of writing fiction gave way for many years to writing
[1:11]legal briefs.
[1:12]A graduate of Cornell University in St. John's University School of Law, where she was
[1:16]at the same time as Moore's Scholar, Jessica was inspired by the loss of a dear friend
[1:20]to finally pursue her passion.
[1:22]Jessica lives in Westchester, New York with her husband and two daughters.
[1:26]Love Me is her debut novel.
[1:28]Welcome, Jessica.
[1:29]Thank you so much for coming.
[1:30]Mom, I'm starting to have time to read books to discuss.
[1:33]Love Me, a novel.
[1:34]Well, to be here.
[1:35]Thank you so much for having me Zippy.
[1:37]So exciting.
[1:38]I love the premise of this book.
[1:39]I love your writing, your sense of humor, like the way you totally capture mom, dumb.
[1:46]I don't momhood in motherhood, whatever you want to tell listeners.
[1:50]What love me is about.
[1:52]Sure.
[1:53]So love me is about Rachel Miller, who is a lawyer and married mom of two and her life.
[2:00]is suddenly turned upside down when letters of her and photos of her and her high school
[2:06]boyfriend, who is now this world famous actor, Jack Bello, are published in a tabloid.
[2:13]Amazing.
[2:14]Wait.
[2:15]You're, you're a lawyer yourself writing a book is your first novel.
[2:20]Where did this come from?
[2:21]Why stop the press and start writing in the midst of your own career and why Jack did this
[2:27]happen to you?
[2:29]I mean, Ryan Reynolds and I, so, you know, I always wanted to write.
[2:38]I'm a reader, you know, as long as I can remember, I've always had a book with me and
[2:45]always had my head in a book.
[2:46]So it wasn't far-fetched for me to say, okay, one day I'm going to write a book.
[2:51]It was really a dream.
[2:53]And then I, you know, I hit 40 and unfortunately I, I also, I lost a very close friend
[2:58]of mine, which was something.
[3:00]Yeah.
[3:01]Thank you.
[3:02]I mean, it triggered something though in me where I was like, okay, I've said I wanted
[3:08]to do this and I haven't.
[3:10]I'm working, yes, but you know, you can always carve out time.
[3:14]So I signed up for a class and I just, you know, I'd come up.
[3:17]I had a bunch of different ideas, but this was the one that I was like, I'm excited.
[3:22]I'm, I'm into this.
[3:23]So I just, I really was full steam ahead and it became kind of like all my free time.
[3:29]I just said, okay, this is what I'm doing now.
[3:31]So I very much focused on, on writing and loved it.
[3:35]It's such a joyful process.
[3:36]So I loved it.
[3:38]It can be.
[3:39]It can also not be true, you know, I'll tell you, for me, because I've never done this
[3:47]before because I had a whole other career, there's, there was a lot less.
[3:53]I was doing this for me and I'm such a reader that I found that, okay, I can put down
[3:58]the books that I'm reading and instead focus on my own and I, and I think it just became,
[4:04]you know, my, my routine and my nightly like, like, fun time, you know, so I agree.
[4:10]But for, for, for me for, for some author who actually has another job, there was just
[4:16]less in state, I think.
[4:17]So it made it a lot.
[4:19]And now, of course, I'm like, oh my God, I had my book out.
[4:22]And I want everybody to read it and I want to be, you know, as well.
[4:25]So now I feel much more pressure.
[4:27]Yeah.
[4:28]Well, I mean, that's the whole thing that they say, you know, if you don't enjoy writing,
[4:31]like, why do it?
[4:32]I mean, it's certainly a lot of hurdles that come with this whole thing.
[4:35]So where did the idea of the old boyfriend and the old pictures, where was that age
[4:42]or just popped into your head one day?
[4:44]I actually know I have a close family member who used to be married to someone who dated
[4:51]a very famous woman and I was chatting with her about it and I knew, but she was telling
[4:59]me a story about like how she first found out and I was like, asking her a million questions.
[5:05]And, you know, I said, did you guys ever think about selling his photo a summer?
[5:11]Like, that would probably make a lot of money and a light bulb went off and I was, this
[5:16]is a book.
[5:17]There we go.
[5:19]It was really inspired by that.
[5:21]And then, of course, I mean, I'm just, I did have a boyfriend in high school who I was madly
[5:26]in love with and it just sticks with you.
[5:30]And there's something about that first love whenever it comes up in your life and I think
[5:34]it's such an informative experience to all of us.
[5:37]You know, your first heartbreak and those first feelings of just like total, totally being
[5:44]enmeshed in some other person.
[5:45]So that was sort of easy for me to tap into and fun to visit.
[5:50]I actually just started reading, it's not coming out for a little while, but it's called
[5:53]First Love by Lucy Dancinger.
[5:55]I bet you would love it because it's essays and she does weave in like some information
[6:00]about First Love, but it's about friendship and close problems with loss.
[6:05]I don't know.
[6:06]I feel like, no, I would love that.
[6:07]And I would love essays.
[6:09]I do.
[6:10]I should like moderate to talk with the two of you eventually.
[6:12]She doesn't even know this.
[6:13]I just got it.
[6:14]Anyway, no, there is something of course about those first impressions.
[6:19]She says in her book, it's about the primacy effect in part, right?
[6:22]You remember things that happened first, like first and list for the grocery and all
[6:25]that, but obviously it's also how impressionable you are.
[6:29]And the love can go to friendship.
[6:30]Wait, tell me, do you mind talking about your friend and what happened and who she
[6:34]was and all that?
[6:35]No, she was the best.
[6:37]Her name, Suzanne and we went to college together and she'd cancer and it was just such
[6:44]a terrible experience.
[6:47]But we were so close and we had this, I had this really lovely group of girlfriends from
[6:52]Cornell and she was at the center of our group, you know?
[6:56]She was the one who planned all of our activities and like getting together and we set
[7:02]her.
[7:03]My husband and I set her up with her husband.
[7:05]You know, we're really close with him as well.
[7:08]And after she passed, my girlfriends and I were like, what are we going to do?
[7:12]We had, you know, to honor her and I think, you know, for some of them it was as simple
[7:17]like, I'm going to say hi to like the UPS delivery man because she was that person.
[7:22]You know, she was so positive.
[7:24]And for me, it was very much like, I know life is short, but I also know that sues
[7:29]would like do anything in her power to make, you know, make something she wanted to
[7:34]happen.
[7:35]She was a lawyer too.
[7:36]She did you open Mike Knight, she was a singer, songwriter and she like, during COVID,
[7:42]she created this like basically like a nursery school for her children, but was a lawyer
[7:46]so she would wake up at five o'clock in the morning and write a brief and then do that.
[7:51]And so she just inspired all of us and I think, you know, our group is so tight, not just
[7:57]because I mean, we love each other in this history, but I think it just really unified
[8:02]us.
[8:03]You know, the loss and the trauma of that, but also just this idea that, you know, she made
[8:07]us better and we want to carry that tradition on.
[8:10]So thank you for asking.
[8:12]And it was really, it's a horrible process, it's a horrible thing to lose a friend, you
[8:17]know, at a young age, as I know you know as well and, you know, it really shapes you.
[8:22]But I like to think she's looking at me and proud.
[8:26]Oh, I'm so sorry.
[8:29]Why is it always these like five or an amazing women, right?
[8:32]Is it all just to teach us less than, I mean, obviously not, but it's like, I don't
[8:37]know.
[8:38]It's true that so much sparkle and brightness and light and that's who she was.
[8:43]It's true, actually.
[8:46]Did she have kids?
[8:48]Yeah, young young kids, but they're doing amazing and her husband's a superstar and her
[8:56]sister lives in her town, you know, in the same town.
[8:58]So she's part of her land, really just a community and that's what's amazing too in life.
[9:03]Like you see people just rally around you during hardship.
[9:08]And so that's been really nice to see everybody just supporting, supporting the family.
[9:14]Well, I feel like community can go both ways because also in your book, you know, when
[9:19]things happen that are unexpected, you know, has very strong feelings about some
[9:24]of those things.
[9:27]Absolutely.
[9:28]I think there's, so I, I value my female friendships like top, you know, it's like family,
[9:35]my kids, my friends and it's so important to me to have these close knit friendships
[9:42]and they're, they're just so meaningful to me and for Rachel, she also has these two
[9:47]best friends that play such a big part of her life, but she does live in the suburbs.
[9:53]And I too, like, I know what it's like to live in a tight knit community and people
[9:58]talk and it's...
[10:00]It can be wonderful, but it can be really challenging because she was very much judged, judged on her
[10:07]past, judged just on like people assuming things about her. And I thought that was it made it a
[10:14]lot of fun to write because you know, I could see that absolutely happening with my friends
[10:19]as well intentioned as we all are. You know, it's it's sometimes gossip is hard to resist.
[10:25]Yes, very true. What are some of the books that you had to put down to write your own?
[10:31]Like, is this the genre that you like to read? Or would you, are you all over the place or
[10:35]tell me about them? Yes. My friend, Lisa Stein tells me I'm an omnivore reader,
[10:41]because I like, I don't actually. My book is, you know, it's marketed as romance. I think
[10:48]really it's more of that women's fiction contemporary fiction with romantic elements
[10:54]because it's really just it's more about Rachel's journey. I think then, you know, her
[10:58]relationships with with a man. And I don't read actually a ton of romance. And I have now,
[11:04]because I've been exposed to the genre. I love Alyssa Sussman is so fantastic and Rachel and
[11:12]Solomon whose books are super spicy, which is like, whoa, but it's just a fun, you know,
[11:19]because for me, like, I, I generally am more interested in, in literary books. It's just what I pick
[11:26]up. So like I read so many great books last year, my last innocent year. I'm so good. I loved
[11:35]my murder. Did you read that, Katie? It's sci-fi, but it was, it was just really smart and
[11:42]beautifully written. I also loved everything's fine. So yeah. Oh, God, it was, yeah,
[11:47]I just, you know, I'm like, you, I'm a reader. I just, I, if you put a book in front of me with
[11:53]an interesting premise and read it, I'm going to read it fast. You know, I think, I think that's
[11:58]our super power, right? Like being able to read a book and read it fast. Yeah, go and keep, keep going
[12:04]to the next. I know, I felt like over winter break, I was like, okay, I'm not reading fast enough.
[12:09]How can I read this faster? Like, I wanted you to read a book a day when I didn't have my dip.
[12:13]Like, come on. What's, what's my excuse? Like, go, go, go. You also have a life and a husband
[12:18]and it's funny. Do you, I don't know how you feel, but like a lot of my friends just don't read
[12:23]nearly as much as me and they're always like, how do you do it? I'm like, you know, this is what
[12:27]I'm often choosing to do. Yeah. And it's not like, it's just what I find fun. So like, it's not
[12:33]bad that you're watching television. And that's what you do to rest. Yes. And yes, like before
[12:38]bad, I just love to read it. So I mean, it makes it easier, but it is hard to work it in,
[12:44]especially with our minds and go in a million miles a minute on all our other life activities.
[12:50]But then it's like that great feeling when you start reading something and you're like,
[12:53]oh, no, no, no, like everything shuts off. And you're like, no, no, I'm staying up late.
[12:57]I don't care what time it is. This is like, I have to read a little more. Let me just keep going
[13:02]such a great feeling. So it is. Yeah. It is such a great feeling. I feel like I just say,
[13:08]oh, wait, I don't think, oh, yeah, that's for sure. I don't know. I personally feel like I don't
[13:13]feel like that with enough TV shows or yeah, no, like I don't find that I don't know. Maybe I'm
[13:18]just watching the wrong shows. No, I hear you. I like to watch TV too. You know, it's like something
[13:24]I do in my husband, but yeah, I mean, it's, but I agree. I think a book can suck you in a totally
[13:32]different way. Yeah. And also, yeah, like I only watch, I only watch with my husband or with
[13:37]somebody else, like watching TV isn't something I ever would do by myself. Like if I ever had free time,
[13:42]I'm never, you'll never find me on the couch just like turning on the TV and being like,
[13:46]what's on? I know that's like such a common thing, but like, I would never do that. I'm going
[13:53]to pick up a book or do something else. But there's no judgment. No, of course not. I mean,
[13:59]because there's so much content. And I also think people, you know, unfortunately, you know,
[14:04]you're on the phone and you're, you're scrolling and like, and part of that is just keeping up with
[14:08]what's going on in the world. And so yes, it's hard to justify, I think, for people to soon the
[14:16]couch and just sit and watch TV. It's, you know, I'm, I'm similarly minded, but there's great
[14:22]shows out there. No, actually, I find the majority of what I'm watching on TV is when books are
[14:29]made into TV shows, because I'm like, oh my gosh, this is not, you know, I know, I know what ever it
[14:34]is. Right. Right. Exactly. So are are you writing another book? I want to write another book.
[14:42]I have dabbled in multiple new books. I think it's tough, right? Because there's so much
[14:51]people don't know, you know, about publishing. I think there's so much that goes into a book,
[14:57]you know, before it comes out. And so, and because I have a job, I'm finding it much more
[15:03]challenging this time around. This is when we talk about the pressure of like writing work before.
[15:08]I was like, this is for me. And now I'm like, well, I'm out there. So I am, I have definitely a few
[15:14]different things. And I'm just trying to dig into something. So hope, hoping to have more time.
[15:19]Awesome. And how do you balance, you know, family life and what are your hacks?
[15:26]Yeah. So many hacks are like, just how do you, I don't know, what are like, is there anything
[15:31]that works particularly well or doesn't or I don't know? So, you know, when I was when I'm writing,
[15:37]I definitely will do it to, you know, that is when I have free time, I'm going to write. And so,
[15:45]you know, that's why I felt like I wasn't reading as much when I was writing. It really, as I said,
[15:51]it just really became part of my life. So for me, like, I think it's, we're always going to try and
[15:56]have that alone time. You know, at night, like, I have an eight year old who still really needs to be
[16:02]put to bed, but my 11 year old, she's sort of, she's on her own a little bit. So, you know,
[16:09]once my little one's down, that's me time. I try to make that stuff happen, but it's tough.
[16:14]I mean, the good thing is my kids, especially my older one just loves to read, which is amazing,
[16:19]because you can see it's like, in you, you know, it's not something she just wants to be reading,
[16:25]so we'll sit together and read together and our own books. And I feel so connected to her
[16:32]lying in her bed separately reading. It's just a special time for us. So I do that, but yeah,
[16:37]it's tough. It's tough. My girls know, I love them. You know, my, my, sometimes I'm being
[16:45]pulled in a lot of different directions. As are you. It's just, I think it's, it's what being a mom is
[16:50]today. And it's tough. And that mental load. Yes. Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. I know, I realized as I was
[16:57]going through all these like vacations and I was like, yeah, they have a second day off for this
[17:01]holiday. Like, I didn't know that and I planned like a lunch for an author and like, I don't know,
[17:05]it was just always like, I don't know, whatever. I had that bathroom nears. I had to be back
[17:11]in my office on January 2nd. Apparently my children did not have school beds a day. And I'm like,
[17:19]what am I going to do? And I have such fabulous friends. We're like, I'll take them. But I'm like,
[17:23]I don't want to feel rushed. So, you know, I did end up getting a babysitter, I think,
[17:27]Lee, you know, there are people I can call to come give my children, but it is, it is so tough.
[17:34]And if you're not looking for those days, like, you don't necessarily know. Yeah. And I did
[17:39]that. I didn't know until a friend was like, oh, what are you going to do? What? What are you
[17:44]talking about? I know I always like thank God for the other moms who were like, hey, just so and so
[17:49]when I haven't played eight on the day, we don't have school in the next whatever. And I'm like, oh,
[17:53]yeah, okay. Yeah, that sounds great. Perfect. And it's going to be a year out.
[17:59]It's so funny. I mean, I used to know the state of my mom. I would be the one who would like
[18:03]organize a great wide plea date on those days. And like, let's go play Gaga. I'll take it.
[18:08]I'll take your kids for a long time. Like, help. Well, your kids will be very grateful and remember
[18:14]that. And it's really special, you know, and now they're seeing you become this superstar.
[18:20]Oh, please. I feel it too. I feel like how grateful our kids will be to see us, you know,
[18:27]succeeding and doing what, what's our path, you know, our path. And so,
[18:31]oh, then my daughter who's 10 this morning was like, so when I grow up, like, could I write
[18:36]just one book? And that's it or do I have to write like lots of books? And I was like, oh, no,
[18:39]no, no, you can write one book, you know, she's like, and yeah, you don't even have to write a book.
[18:46]I know it's different. It's so cute. Like, it's not the easiest thing. But yeah,
[18:51]if that's what you want to do and you feel like you have to. But to your point of readers,
[18:55]I really do feel there's something you can foster the love of reading and kids, right,
[19:00]by kind of forcing it on and honestly, or like working really hard to find the books they love.
[19:03]But I do find even with my own kids that there are variant degrees of how much they just
[19:09]innately love to read and how, like, naturally that comes to some people.
[19:13]It's true. It's true. I am so very close with the girls I grew up with. And, you know, they used
[19:20]to joke that I would bring my books at sleepovers. And I would just be like, that's what I'm going to read
[19:25]now. Then buy with my books. We like would have been friends. I would go to, they would all watch
[19:31]horror movies, which are too scary for me. And I would like take my novel from like my mom's library
[19:36]and sit with like my friend's mom and her room and hang out. And even still, I just ran into their
[19:41]friend. I'm like, how is your mom? My best friend. It's so crazy. It is. So what are you looking
[19:51]forward to on the tour and the release of the book and just like all this stuff? Like, what are you
[19:56]excited about? So I'm meeting.
[20:00]gosh I mean it's it's really exciting to have it finally in people's hands I mean to me it's like
[20:07]I've been talking about book for you know how long it takes come out and
[20:13]between you know the writing and the getting the agent and the you know getting it sold and so
[20:19]and I'm sick of it and sick of being on social media like three order my book so I'm thrilled that
[20:25]it's going to be out in the world on my launch day I'm going to be with Ann about Monahan
[20:30]I love her a dream of a person she she was one of the first people who you know authors who read my
[20:37]book and was so I seem to love it and I've really supported me just she's just an amazing person and
[20:43]then I also I'm going to so that's in in Greenwich at Athena Books which is just the most beautiful
[20:50]bookstore and then I am going to be in the city on the day after on January 17th I'm going to
[20:57]be with my best one from college Lindsey Brook Weiss is a is an influencer she's fat into fashion
[21:05]and she's a stylist coco and cashmere follow her if you don't she's awesome so I thought it'd be
[21:10]fun and really kind of great you know well a little more interesting and different to have her
[21:17]interview me so she's gonna we're gonna sit down together at the Upper East Side Barnes and
[21:21]Noble and then the next thing I'm going to Carl Poise Long Island we're we're me I'm from near there
[21:27]and so a lot of my my friends from going up will be there too so I'm I'm excited and just a few more
[21:33]things I'm planning I have your event in March at Athena on my calendar oh good yeah yeah I can't wait
[21:41]for that but it's fun I mean I'm really and I want to I think I love how some authors are
[21:48]that communicate with their readers and so like for me I think I'd really interest because I'm
[21:52]like a regular person you know I want to I would love to zoom into book clubs or visit
[21:58]a clubs with their if I may ball because I think there is something so exciting I would love that
[22:04]opportunity and and one thing that's been so great about being an author is starting to be able
[22:10]to message books and you know authors of books that I love and saying I loved your book I'm sure
[22:15]I could have done that before but if you know I feel like I'm a tiny bit more street cred and it's
[22:20]so you know I'm less intimidated reaching out and I just like it's so cool isn't it like is it
[22:27]so cool they are right as you say their hours celebrities they are I still feel like that I'm like
[22:33]you too I know like the other day so I read a dog's purpose and you know all those books a dog's
[22:39]purpose by Bruce W. Bruce Cameron anyway I happen to read like the whole series to my son when he
[22:44]was younger and then recently like his wife reached out and said she had read my memoir and I
[22:51]consequently bought the Nini's treats come cakes I mentioned in the memoir and that Bruce was eating
[22:56]them all and I'm like that's so cool it's so cool I like flipped out about it I'm like you know
[23:03]then I picture myself and my son on his bed reading those books years ago and then I fast forward
[23:10]I mean it's all just so crazy they have a relationship with authors I don't know no it is that's I
[23:15]mean that's how I feel and I wonder if you know it's it's funny I like could go on and on about
[23:22]some of these amazing women that I've met and one thing that I found that's been so surprising
[23:28]and fabulous is how warm and welcoming authors are you know they're not it does not feel like a
[23:35]competitive environment which is so and everyone's lifting each other up and that you know that
[23:42]that's rare I would say certainly that is such a fabulous part of this industry and
[23:47]really has has been such a pleasant surprise for me so I'm really grateful you included I mean
[23:54]it's really just nice to you know you're putting yourself out there and you don't know what you're
[24:00]gonna get and so it's been good it's been really nice I mean I think the thing is like you know
[24:06]there are there luckily there are so many readers right and everybody has their own
[24:11]things that they bring to each book so it's if if everyone was competing for like the same 20
[24:17]readers I mean I guess I don't know or maybe no I mean right that is the difference right with movies
[24:23]or whatever TV show like there's no there's no limitation on you know like what you can be reading
[24:29]right I agree or you could read you could have the same reader and they just read all of the books
[24:35]yeah like you're more likely to appeal to their reader or whatever I don't know but I have found
[24:42]the same thing I have been you know this whole park I mean it's amazing people are just so willing
[24:46]to open up like you today you know it's like let me delve into your private life and your
[24:51]your family and you know whatever okay bring it on bring it on it's so funny because we're not
[25:03]you know I'm writing my book and it's yes some of it is inspired by real life but it's not me
[25:08]and so it is interesting coming on and talking about yourself you know because thank you
[25:15]I had nothing to do in your book but it is so it I'm so grateful to be able to do it and I
[25:22]think I think people find it interesting right like everyone's listening to your podcast so
[25:27]there must be a reason I always feel more connected to the book when I know the person behind the book
[25:34]yeah I mean it didn't just like plopped down from like the universe you know like somebody sat
[25:38]there and typed it all out and thought of it and and like for me it just infused it with so
[25:43]much more meaning and I don't know and I'm like rooting I'm rooting for the person when I hear
[25:48]about it I don't know how can you not so yeah I agree so it's I must say it's a rarity to hear
[25:53]of someone who's just like I want to write a novel and then writes one and gets it published and
[25:57]have it be like good like yours like what advice do you have for aspiring authors because usually
[26:02]you have to write a couple novels to to make you know the practice round novels what what advice do
[26:07]you have right no you know I will say one benefit was not having any knowledge of that when I
[26:13]sit out I was like oh yeah I'm gonna write you know I'm gonna do this and then I'm gonna find an
[26:18]agent I just you know I'm part of it is probably a little bit of confidence but I think too because
[26:24]I'm in such a different profession and I'm still doing it you know like there's very specific
[26:29]paths that you follow in the law you go to law school you work hard you get a job so it didn't
[26:35]translate for me I learned quickly publishing is so different because you know I'd send an email
[26:40]and I'd hear back you know two weeks later in the publishing universe it's just a different
[26:44]whereas in the like in my legal job it's immediate but you know in terms of advice I would say
[26:50]the best thing to do is to start you know you you if you have an idea or even if you sort of have a
[26:58]a tiny seedling of an idea getting in the habit of writing is is huge and just and I do think that
[27:06]you don't have to set you know I wrote relatively fast but I think just putting a little time
[27:11]towards it each day is worth it the other thing I did which I loved I took a class online with Gotham
[27:19]Writers Workshop and I it was an evening class and it was you know it was a live class and so for
[27:25]three hours once a week I was this is what I'm doing I said no to all plans on Wednesdays
[27:31]because you know it's very much a demand on Wednesday you know everybody down
[27:37]I you know it's very committed and that got me you know I didn't have an knowledge of the
[27:42]craft I don't have an MFA you know I know how to write legal briefs but there is a very big difference
[27:48]between writing fiction so that was so wonderful and it allowed me to start to think like a writer
[27:55]to understand what goes into writing a book I do have one more piece of advice that I learned in
[28:00]this class which was and I think people are so precious about their writing which I get and certainly
[28:08]as a writer I want every word to be just like perfect but there is something about that messy first
[28:14]draft and just going full steam ahead and not rereading constantly and tweaking as you go
[28:21]for me that was like the best gift that I could have gotten that advice because I really did
[28:28]just write and at the end I had a piece of work that needed a ton of editing far more editing
[28:34]than I realized you know I learned that in the process but I did it you know I had it for
[28:40]a strap and so that really is the only way I think if you you know you can get that otherwise
[28:47]it's gonna take you years to come up with something if you keep stopping yourself so that's my
[28:53]advice I love it I love it oh my gosh this was so fun your book is great I'm so excited for you
[29:00]and you above all else you sound like you're really an amazing friend so your friends all sound
[29:05]very very lucky to have you thank you so much I appreciate that I love this all right thank you
[29:10]bye thanks for listening to this episode of moms don't have time to read books don't forget to
[29:16]follow me on instagram at zebi Owens and at moms don't have time to read books also sign up for my
[29:22]newsletter at zebiowens.com and sign up for my virtual book club and meet lots of authors on zoom
[29:27]every other week thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at texture sound for the sound editing
[29:31]and thank you to morning moon productions for providing this fantastic intro and outroom music