Sagit Schwartz, SINCE SHE'S BEEN GONE
[0:04]Welcome to Moms Don't Have Time to Be Books with Zippy.
[0:07]I'm the host, Zippy Owens.
[0:09]I am an author, my latest is blank, pub date march first and novel.
[0:13]I'm also a podcaster, obviously, a publisher, a bookstore owner, and so much more.
[0:18]If you love books, you're in the right place.
[0:21]In fact, we call it the Zippyverse, or really, the LA Times called it the Zippyverse,
[0:25]and we're going with it.
[0:27]Go to Zippy Owens.com to learn more and follow me on Instagram at Zippy Owens.
[0:33]So, Gee Meyer Schwartz is the author of since she's been gone, a novel.
[0:37]So, Gee is a writer, producer, and licensed psychotherapist.
[0:41]Her work has been featured in Medium, Slate, The Atlantic, Reddit, No Sleep, and Lifetime Television.
[0:47]She resides with her husband, daughter, and rescue dog in a Southern California beach town.
[0:51]And by the way, I met Sidgee because she tweeted all about the helpful effects of my podcast,
[0:59]this very one, in helping her write this book.
[1:02]And we had a whole talk, and then she wrote a whole essay about it.
[1:06]And it literally just made everything I do worth doing.
[1:09]And we have stayed in touch.
[1:11]We've met in person in LA.
[1:12]And she is amazing.
[1:14]I am so excited for her.
[1:15]It's like amazing.
[1:16]Welcome, Sidgee.
[1:17]Thank you so much for coming on mom's don't have time to read books to discuss.
[1:21]Since she's been gone, this is like a whole circle moment.
[1:25]I can't even believe it.
[1:27]I know.
[1:28]It really, really is.
[1:31]I remember sitting in this chair listening to your podcast as I was writing the book.
[1:37]It's unbelievable to me.
[1:38]It's truly a dream come true.
[1:40]Thank you for having me on the podcast.
[1:42]I'm overwhelmed with emotion.
[1:46]So listeners, before we talk about Sidgee's book, it must have been about a year,
[1:52]a year ago, maybe two years ago.
[1:54]Yeah, a couple years I think.
[1:56]A couple years, two years, a year and a half.
[1:58]Yeah.
[1:59]You wrote the most beautiful Twitter essay thing about how grateful you were for all the things
[2:07]you learned on the podcast and like that because of the podcast you had written a book.
[2:11]And I remember sitting at the island of my kitchen just like scrolling through and reading
[2:15]and like tears in my eyes.
[2:17]And I'm like, oh my gosh.
[2:18]And I read it to my head.
[2:19]And I'm like, look at this.
[2:20]Look what this woman said.
[2:22]And then you had your own book.
[2:24]And anyway, then we connected and it was just so amazing and we've met in person.
[2:28]And oh my gosh, it just it makes it so wonderful.
[2:32]So thank you for everything.
[2:34]Thank you, Zibi.
[2:35]I know as I've listened to many, many of your interviews,
[2:40]I'm not the first and I will not be the last author to thank you
[2:45]for what you have done for authors, for readers, for the writing community.
[2:50]It is indescribable.
[2:53]Apart from every interview teaching me something and booing me as I was writing,
[3:01]because so many of the writers, very, very successful one.
[3:05]Very times best sellers talked about their struggles in your interviews with them.
[3:10]And so it gave me the confidence and persistence to keep going.
[3:15]But apart from all of that, it's also you.
[3:19]It's your generosity and humanity and the way that you open yourself up in the interviews
[3:25]and sharing your own publishing journey in your memoir, which was not a straight line by any stretch.
[3:32]It just inspired me and helped keep me going.
[3:37]And it was like I had my cheerleading squad and it was the moms don't have time to read books
[3:45]authors in Zibi.
[3:48]In my Twitter thread, I was like my friend Zibi, because that's how I
[3:53]view you as I was writing the book.
[3:54]I'm like my friend Zibi says I need to do this.
[3:57]I'm like I am writing this out and then we published the article on your website.
[4:05]And I'm so grateful.
[4:07]And I am telling you this book would not exist without your podcast.
[4:12]So I am indebted to you.
[4:14]And you're in my acknowledgement section because of that.
[4:18]This is literally making me cry.
[4:20]Well, it's really it's emotional for me too.
[4:24]It really is.
[4:27]Oh my goodness.
[4:27]So nice of you to say all that.
[4:29]So nice.
[4:29]Oh yeah.
[4:31]And when I had the chance to meet you at your bookstore in Santa Monica and Kyle was there,
[4:37]I felt like I knew him too.
[4:40]After the memoir and learning about how you met and the relationship and all of the things
[4:47]that the two of you had been through together and then seeing how supportive he is of your career,
[4:53]it was just like family, you know?
[4:58]I love that.
[4:59]I love it so much.
[5:01]Oh gosh.
[5:03]What you do, what I do, what we all are out there doing.
[5:07]You know, we're all at our desks just like working so hard trying to help trying to
[5:14]make some sort of difference and just like over and over just like doing what we do.
[5:18]And it's nice to have a minute where, you know, you say the book wouldn't have been around
[5:24]without the show.
[5:25]I mean, that is everything to me.
[5:27]You know, it's just like a accumulation of all those moments.
[5:32]And for you, all the moments you sat at your desk writing the book.
[5:35]And now here it is.
[5:36]It's just so cool.
[5:37]Here it is.
[5:37]Oh, and one other thing about you and in your past,
[5:43]you turned me on to several authors and books that I hadn't heard about before.
[5:48]And I read them and then reached out to the authors and we became friendly.
[5:53]And two of them blurbed my book.
[5:55]Marcy Durmanski.
[5:57]Oh, I wrote American Girl and Brenton Slowcomb who wrote the violin conspiracy and
[6:03]the Symphony of Secrets.
[6:05]They both blurbed my book.
[6:06]And again, I wouldn't have known about their books or been exposed to them without your podcast.
[6:12]And then we, you know, became friendly apart from that.
[6:16]So it's just been, it's, your impact has been fast on my life.
[6:22]And as I said, I have heard enough of these interviews to know that I'm not going to be the,
[6:27]that I'm not the person I will not be the last to thank you for all that you do.
[6:37]Okay.
[6:38]Let's talk about your book since she's gone.
[6:42]The covers amazing.
[6:43]This looks so good.
[6:45]Oh my gosh.
[6:46]Okay, tell listeners about your book.
[6:50]What is it about what inspired it?
[6:53]All of it.
[6:53]And she's been gone is a dual timeline thriller about a psychologist who learns the
[6:59]mom she lost to a hit and run 26 years before might still be alive and keeping dangerous secrets.
[7:07]And it goes back and forth in time from when she was a 15 year old girl in residential
[7:13]treatment for her needing disorder after she had lost her mom to the present when she gets
[7:18]this bombshell news and a supposed patient shows up to her office and tells her your mother
[7:24]is still alive and in danger.
[7:26]I'm not giving anything away because this literally happens in the first two pages.
[7:29]And then the book sends her on a scary adrenaline pump journey to try and figure out
[7:37]what happened to her mom and piece this mystery together.
[7:41]So that that's the synopsis in terms of inspiration, eating disorders are a mental health issue
[7:49]that have been largely left out of adult contemporary fiction.
[7:53]You do find them you do find it more often in YA and there's actually I think you're going
[8:00]to be interviewing her a new adult book that came out which I have not read yet that deals with
[8:06]this. I should have pulled it out before like Emma Nois, I purchased it. Oh guys girl yes yes
[8:12]yeah because I want to read it. It's a new adult but generally speaking this topic his I don't
[8:18]know why it affects 10% of the population. It is just not something that publishers have been
[8:25]interested in taking on maybe because historically in the media and entertainment it has not been
[8:31]portrayed well it's been sensationalized or glamorized or you know viewed as aspirational because
[8:40]of the weight loss aspect of it. So it wasn't an easy sell actually because of that.
[8:49]But my editor was very dogged and really believed that this book needed to be out there
[8:57]and she told me with great power comes great responsibility and she said I believe that the publishing
[9:03]role with adult contemporary fiction has done a good job with other mental health issues like
[9:08]addiction you know depression anxiety but this particular issue it has not had its moment yet.
[9:16]So it'll be released in February which is eating disorder awareness a month. I'm a licensed
[9:21]clinician and I have treated people with eating disorders in the past when I was practicing
[9:28]I'm writing full time now. I know this book is important I've already had arc readers reach out to me
[9:34]who have been impacted some parents who have children in recovery some people in recovery themselves
[9:42]who have thanked me for writing it because representation matters. Yes and so it is fast paced
[9:48]bingy thriller that also has mental health rep. Amazing great pitch by the way that was
[9:54]wonderful. Thanks. I know I agree with you it has not
[10:00]you know I have a great interest in eating disorders for many reasons but so I'm always sort of like
[10:04]on the lookout myself. Yeah. I just read a really great book. It's a memoir by Hannah Petard
[10:11]heavy read it. It's called We Are Too Many. No. I haven't heard of it actually.
[10:15]It just I mean when did it come out recently? Ish. She was with Miami Book Fair. We did a live
[10:20]interview. I can't remember I don't know if we've released it yet but if not it will be by the time
[10:24]this comes out for sure we will have released it but you should you should read it short but
[10:28]she probably talks about you know her a lot of purging behaviors and how even as a grown-up now
[10:34]she finally is in a relationship where she can say to her spouse like all I want to do right now
[10:39]by the way is be in the bathroom throwing up and he'll say okay I'm just going to sit with you while
[10:43]we get through this. That level of honesty. Yep. So I read that pretty you know in the last month or so
[10:50]and I hadn't read something similar and of course your book comes from a younger point of view
[10:55]in treatment to start right when you know my really good friend in high school was at residential
[11:01]inpatient eating disorders place that I went and visited her at so I have like no and then I
[11:06]interned at psychiatric hospital so anyway I have I'm familiar with treatment and all of that
[11:11]and I'm totally interested like I find that to be a very salient exciting part of your book
[11:16]versus the alternative you know which is not wanting to represent it like I you know anyway
[11:22]that was a wrap and I've also had several book influencers who have not been personally impacted
[11:30]reach out to me and say everything that I thought about eating disorders from the media is totally
[11:35]wrong. I had everything I learned was totally wrong I now have more empathy I have more compassion
[11:43]so there is a space for this also in my book when she's a 15 year old girl and she's in a
[11:51]treatment center and fighting for her life and recovery I wanted to portray that but it also
[11:58]comes bubbling back when she learns that her mom yeah might still be alive and I wanted to show
[12:05]what it would be like as an adult to suddenly have those thoughts those behaviors as you said
[12:12]the woman that author that you spoke with and interviewed who still is an adult has some of those
[12:20]thoughts and has to fight against them and rally against them and that is portrayed in my book as well
[12:27]and I I'm also proud that I have cutting edge science in my book because historically a lot of times
[12:37]parents and especially mothers have been blamed for kids eating disorders and now the field
[12:43]is changing a lot and they've located genetic mutations and that show if a person has a vulnerability
[12:53]to develop an eating disorder and they are in the field it's now considered a metabolic psychiatric
[13:01]disorder because people with eating disorders metabolize fats differently than the rest of the
[13:08]population and anytime a person with a vulnerability for an eating disorder experiences an energy
[13:16]deficit it doesn't matter what the reason is if you're being bullied in high school and you start
[13:21]restricting your food is a response to that or if you're in your first trimester of pregnancy
[13:28]and are nauseous and can't eat and you experience an energy deficit and both of those situations
[13:34]you have a risk so they're understanding it as you know the energy deficit is the driver for
[13:44]it's not strictly emotional and psychological and psychiatric there's a metabolic component to it
[13:51]so the whole field is thinking about things differently understanding things differently
[13:58]and I wanted to include some of that in there because I do think they are the overall eating
[14:03]disorders are deeply misunderstood that's my opinion wait the metabolic and the is that for
[14:11]all types just anorexia all types of eating disorders no all I mean well it's it's all types
[14:18]but especially anorexia in terms of the restricting the energy deficit but there is also
[14:25]energy deficit that goes with purging too and there's a type of anorexia that is restrictive
[14:32]purging so there's for example I mean I'm not speaking out of turn because she's been interviewed
[14:38]about it but Glenn and Doyle I believe had was diagnosed with that subtype she's done multiple
[14:44]podcast episodes about it on her podcast yeah and she for many years thought she had
[14:52]bulimia and then got the correct diagnosis that it was no actually anorexia with the purging subtype
[15:00]so I'm getting really into the clinical weeds this is like I'm interested it's my fault I
[15:05]was actually a therapist you know the clinician but I want readers to know that it is
[15:12]just that my book is a thrilling ride and no no no I'm sorry readers I've made it yeah no
[15:19]no a lot of readers that have no interest in this subject they just are like I can't put it down
[15:24]I need to know what happens yeah no that is it's just one of the many threads that's all I
[15:31]just happen to be interested so I'm pulling that thread but you know if you're not you'll just
[15:36]you know read right past it and get into the all the other links yeah thrilling mystery yes
[15:42]and you know disappearance and family and you know secrets in lines and all the good things that
[15:48]you know found family yeah that's that's a big theme I mean I dedicated the book to my mom
[15:55]who I lost young and in a way for me it was a reimagining of what would have happened if
[16:02]one day I found out she was really still alive all these years oh so it's a deeply personal book
[16:10]I included letters in it that she wrote me as a young girl and when I I wanted to include all of
[16:17]of them right and my editors like I love these letters she didn't even know they were for my mom
[16:20]she's like I love these letters but we you know we got to kind of cut some of them down so
[16:25]to keep the pace of the book going in it was like Sophie's choice for me I was like it was like
[16:29]I couldn't choose but but I did and I also included her eulogy about three quarters of it so it's a
[16:37]deeply personal book in that way for me and I've had a lot of readers reach out saying that they
[16:45]they never cried reading a thriller before and they cried really hard reading my book
[16:50]I cried while writing it but I didn't anticipate that readers would similarly have that experience
[16:56]how can you talk more about that loss and what happened it held you were and all of that
[17:01]yeah my mom as she it's it's quite a thing she died at 47 and I wrote this book when I was 47
[17:12]years old and I sold it when I was 48 and like I'm gonna get choked up but like you know it was
[17:20]like a year she never had that I get to live out you know and so I'm just I'm really trying to live
[17:27]this year for both of us I'm trying to because she didn't get this time and so it's like
[17:35]I'm living for two people now for this this experience and was so lucky to have her I lost her
[17:42]young but and and I have this in the book that like and especially being a therapist you
[17:49]realize that having a parent that really loves and supports you and believes in you and tells you
[17:56]you can do anything you want like it's really such a blessing and such a gift and it is
[18:03]not something many people get to you know have have in their lives so although I lost her young
[18:11]I did have I did get that from her and I write in my book about Beatrice I was born and I was
[18:19]loved that was my privilege so people might be you know talk about different kinds of privileges
[18:26]that they're born with being born with a one parent that loves you is a huge privilege
[18:33]and such a gift and I got that from her and it has stayed with me my entire life and I she made
[18:44]me believe that I could do this that I could write this book even though she's you know been gone
[18:51]for gosh I mean she passed away 1997 so it's been a long time but yeah so this year is you know
[19:01]it's this one is for both of us my sophomore novel will be a different thing but this one is
[19:07]is uniquely special because I am on I'm on a timeline that she never got so yeah this is so moving
[19:17]you're so wonderful for sharing this for there's so many people who have had loss and are
[19:24]outliving their parents and the crazy way that makes people feel right like that they're
[19:30]they're themselves on borrowed time in a way well one of you the interviews you did with Claire
[19:36]who's one of you now is it the author yes yes her like Claire Bittwell Smith is a good
[19:42]yes but I know that's a particular brand of sadness and you know poignancy and oh my gosh
[19:50]do you feel that she kind of knows how do you feel about that that like or do you feel like
[19:56]you don't believe any of that I do believe it Zippy
[20:00]I do believe in that and I had moments when the book was going out on submission where I live
[20:07]a short drive from the water and I would drive to the ocean and I would like talk to the ocean
[20:14]and I would talk to her and I would feel her there and I'd be like mom what what's going to happen
[20:19]like is this book going to go out in the world is it going to get out there and I just I would get
[20:26]these waves of reassurances that's the only way I can explain it so I really do feel that she does
[20:35]know and she I believe she's been cheering me on yeah I love that still after all these years
[20:45]now that I've outlived or I still feel that well I mean does love really ever go away
[20:51]right it's in the universe it's out there like it can't be destroyed it doesn't live necessarily
[20:57]feels the love right it's it doesn't I don't know and it's it's in the pain and the grief
[21:05]are the price of love I mean you can't have that without the other eventually yeah if someone
[21:13]were to ask me well okay you could have had a different mom that didn't die at the age of 47 would you
[21:20]have chosen that I would say no every day of the week can I ask how she died it's not in my
[21:27]business no no not at all she died of cancer related to the broccomutation the BRCA mutation I did
[21:38]not inherit that mutation if a parent has it the child has a 50 50 chance of getting it because
[21:44]it depends which if she had one healthy gene and one mutated one and so I to go through the whole
[21:49]genetic all of that the counseling to to get tested so that was that was how she passed yeah when
[21:57]she passed there was less awareness of it so she didn't know right you know it now people take
[22:05]measures to protect themselves she didn't know it was to knew them you know that the genetic
[22:12]counseling field and that specific recognition of that mutation we did literally just when
[22:18]she was like two years of being sick just came out no yeah so anyway so I feel that she knows
[22:26]and I feel that when I'm at Zibi's bookshop celebrating my launch because I'm doing my launch
[22:31]it's Zibi's bookshop she's gonna be there alone with everyone else cheering me on
[22:38]and it's really such a beautiful thing oh my gosh this podcast is the third time I've cried
[22:45]oh my gosh because also in my head I'm imagining you know I'm 47 now too like right now
[22:52]like if I were to drop it tomorrow not good you know and my kids came out with their books
[22:56]years from now like I would you know what I oh my gosh anyway right oh my god you're killing me
[23:02]here this is so this is a lot well this is though this is your humanities Zibi though you wear your
[23:11]heart on your sleep you're so empathic and I think that's why you touch and reach so many lives
[23:17]no truly thank you you mentioned a sophomore novel what is that tell me about that I oh gosh
[23:26]okay all right it's early day still this is going to be a very different one it's not a
[23:32]tear-churker but it's about a woman who was down on her luck and a decade prior she had
[23:42]graduated from the American Film Institute huge dreams of becoming a director and then
[23:49]everything kind of has gone wrong for her ever since at the time she had when she graduated she had
[23:56]a short that was up for an Oscar nomination since then everything has gone downhill and she is
[24:05]working a job that she does not like at a reality TV show of the likes of the voice or American
[24:17]idol it's called the underdog but these particular contestants come from very very unusual
[24:25]backgrounds and she is charged with having to pick them up from wherever they are and bring them
[24:33]to the set and the book opens up where she is charged with going to a psychiatric hospital
[24:42]to pick up a woman who since she was institutionalized has not spoken and only sings so it's a bit of
[24:51]a nod to the silent patient she's called the singing patient and there's TikToks of her and all
[24:57]of this and she picks her up and they go to the airport and the woman goes to the bathroom
[25:04]and she never comes out but before she goes to the bathroom she tells her I'm going to make you
[25:09]famous and she goes in and she never comes out and the whole book is the mystery of what happened
[25:16]to this woman so it's dual point of view what happened to this woman and then what's going to
[25:22]happen to our protagonist and there is a whole storyline of very nefarious circumstances
[25:30]of why and how she get ended up in the hospital she never should have and how this was you know
[25:38]how she got out this was her ticket out wow so it's it sounds amazing it's really fun it's so
[25:46]different it's so lighthearted but it's also got the tense like you know what's going to happen
[25:52]and I like it because I don't know it's a working title called the underdog I like it because
[25:57]both of the women are underdogs in their own ways and I overcome what their situation is so
[26:05]I enjoy writing characters you can root for you know and people have told me that with my book
[26:12]they really were rooting for my protagonist so I I want to do that again but in a you know more
[26:19]lighthearted way with still with all the thrills and twists and mystery that I have in this book
[26:27]well you can also call it the singing patient that's a good title too I know I was thinking that
[26:31]I mean she's dubbed that in the the psych hospital because of the book the silent patient
[26:37]yeah but I don't know if that would be like two on the nose I don't know yeah maybe maybe you're
[26:42]right yeah look it's a publisher takes it they'll have their own idea yeah they can do whatever
[26:46]they want if you know with your publishing house well it sounds amazing please send it to me
[26:56]you'll be the first you know actually contractually I have to give it to my publisher first
[27:00]they'll probably stand yeah they have first right of refusal excuse me publisher okay let's see what
[27:06]happens yeah when is your launch I wonder if this is coming out before after we release this
[27:10]that'd be weary six February six okay that's right I don't think I can be there but I'll watch
[27:17]on oh that's okay you know Zippy here as I say even my cheerleader for a long time even before I
[27:24]met you so you're always there thank you for this for so many parts of this oh thank you Zippy
[27:35]for all that you do I've really enjoyed speaking with you today and I'm so excited for everything
[27:41]that's happened to you with your business I just can't think of a more deserving person
[27:46]thank you thank you all right congratulations you too and happy Hanukkah
[27:51]happy Hanukkah hi thanks for listening to this episode of moms don't have time to read books
[27:58]don't forget to follow me on instagram at zibi Owens and at moms don't have time to read books
[28:04]also sign up for my newsletter at zibi Owens.com and sign up for my virtual book club and meet
[28:08]lots of authors on zoom every other week thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at texture sound for the
[28:13]sound editing and thank you to morning moon productions for providing this fantastic intro and