Lucinda Halpern, GET SIGNED: Find an Agent, Land a Book Deal, and Become a Published Author
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[0:09]I am an author, my latest is blank, pub date march first and novel.
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[0:33]Lucinda Halpern is the author of Get Signed, Find an Agent, Land Book Deal, and become a
[0:38]published author.
[0:39]Lucinda is a literary agent and the founder of Lucinda Literary Based in New York.
[0:43]She has worked with all major publishers, including Penguin Random House, Simon & Cheester,
[0:46]McMillan, Hashedt, and Scholastic, and currently represents New York Times and internationally
[0:51]best-selling authors in the categories of personal growth, popular science, narrative nonfiction,
[0:56]memoir, and of market fiction.
[0:58]Her classes and coaching programs have been taught to hundreds of writers worldwide,
[1:01]and it became the inspiration for her new book, Get Signed.
[1:05]Welcome, Lucinda.
[1:06]Thank you so much for coming.
[1:07]And mom, start out time to read books.
[1:09]To discuss Get Signed, Find an Agent, Land Book Deal, and become a published author.
[1:14]Hi, so good to be here.
[1:17]This is the book that so many people I need to just hand it to them, because everyone's
[1:22]always asking, like, okay, well, I have this, I've written this, or I'm 40 pages in,
[1:27]I have a draft, I don't know what to do, and I'm like, well, you need to find an agent first,
[1:30]and they're like, what do you mean?
[1:32]I'm like, I don't know, I don't know, don't send it to me.
[1:36]Yeah, I'm kidding.
[1:37]But you have all your not to do.
[1:38]I'm not kidding.
[1:40]Okay, tell the whole story, your whole story, your book, your background, jump in.
[1:46]Yeah, so I'm a literary agent for St. Forma.
[1:49]So I'm that person that people are asking you about when they want to get published.
[1:53]What exactly is that person?
[1:55]And the way I put it is, especially for moms, we're like the doula when you don't trust the
[2:00]doctor, we're the person who is your midwife, sort of helping you birth this thing, which is nothing
[2:06]short of, you know, a labor of a child that you've been incubating for so long.
[2:12]And we, you know, so mainly we're known for brokering, a publishing deal, right?
[2:16]We're helping you to get book advance, and we are looking out for your rights and your contract.
[2:22]But agents are so much more than that, right?
[2:25]Or your first champions were your therapists.
[2:28]We are looking after your business affairs so that you can keep your relationships and your work
[2:32]creative, which is really important part of the partnership where your first editors,
[2:38]so we're shaping your work with you.
[2:39]And you think it's done.
[2:40]It's not done before we send it out to publishers.
[2:43]We're pitching you so we have to share your vision, and then we're with you for the entirety of
[2:47]your career, so long after the deal, we're still being your cheerleader from the sidelines,
[2:52]and we're still mediating for you with the publisher.
[2:55]So that's the literary agent role, just backing up to the beginning.
[2:59]My personal story is like it's a resume that's a smattering of non commitments,
[3:05]which ends up serving entrepreneurs really well, you know, that I got interested and got
[3:09]experience a lot of things.
[3:10]And then always felt like I was going to run my own company.
[3:13]So very young, I started to do that at 27 after having really small periods of time at Harper
[3:18]Collins, which is the boot camp for everyone who wants to get in publishing.
[3:22]Scholastic where I was learning online marketing sales.
[3:25]And then one agent is a very well respected agent, Christy Fletcher, she's now at UTA,
[3:31]took a fire on me.
[3:33]She's like, I like your hustle.
[3:35]I think you've got it.
[3:36]Every other agent rejected me.
[3:38]I knocked on every door.
[3:39]I met with every agent and they were like, you're cute, you're young.
[3:44]Very cute, but you don't have a list of clients to bring to the table.
[3:49]Christy took a chance on me.
[3:51]That's the story I love to tell beginning in this book because it really only takes one person
[3:56]to believe in you.
[3:57]And what Christy did is she connected me with Gretchen Rubin of the Happiness Project,
[4:02]and I did some online marketing consulting for Gretchen.
[4:05]And a few years into that career, I thought I want to start something that
[4:09]marries the online marketing and publicity expertise that I now have with the fact that I'm
[4:15]a born editor and deal maker and I want to be representing the careers of authors.
[4:19]So I started Lucinda Literary, which is my firm, now 13 years ago, hard to be a female business owner
[4:26]as a UL knows, Debbie, right?
[4:27]It's like not for the faint of heart.
[4:30]You're often in a room full of men.
[4:33]And just we pivoted so many times.
[4:36]We started a speakers bureau in 2016.
[4:39]We've since grown our team of agents.
[4:42]And I'm doing this thing I love, which is coaching writers.
[4:45]I'm coaching, teaching.
[4:46]Now I'm writing this book, which is like the craziest surprise and meta experience
[4:52]an agent could ever have, sitting at the author side of the table.
[4:55]Did you get yourself an agent or did you represent yourself?
[4:59]I made the critical mistake of not following what I prescribed in my book and not higher
[5:03]an agent.
[5:04]So I learned the hard way.
[5:05]I was like, I think I could do this myself.
[5:08]You know, similarly, I thought, I can write this book myself.
[5:10]I've always been an aspiring writer.
[5:12]I've learned from all these great books.
[5:14]I couldn't do any of these things myself, right?
[5:17]It takes a village.
[5:18]So so this book was what I feel to be the only real gift that's been given to me that I
[5:25]haven't driven myself, right?
[5:27]You drive results every day.
[5:29]You sort of like you face all the naysayers.
[5:32]You know, my own mother who pushed you not listening and said, you shouldn't run your own company
[5:36]and run your own company when I was so young, you know, that's going to be tough.
[5:41]And similarly, I was going to self publish this book because I was so
[5:45]devoted to it and believing in it, which is again, a quality of all the authors
[5:50]that are successful that I take on.
[5:51]Like they're going to do this hell or high water.
[5:54]There is a message they need to get out there.
[5:56]They're going to do it with or without me.
[5:58]I was self publishing this thinking, okay, that's what this will be and that'll be great.
[6:02]And then my friend who's a publisher at Hayhouse,
[6:04]I was having dinner with her third glass of wine.
[6:07]I'm like, maybe I should mention this book.
[6:09]I'm writing.
[6:11]And she said, don't self publish it.
[6:12]We want to commission it.
[6:13]Like we want to give you an actual deal for this book.
[6:16]And I just fell over backward.
[6:19]And and the lesson in that again for your audience and for writers.
[6:22]And I think the supplies to people at large, right?
[6:24]Is you talk about ever, like you talk about what you're pursuing,
[6:29]even if it's completely new and you might fail with everyone.
[6:32]Is you never know what door is going to open for you?
[6:35]And so that was my real experience of that.
[6:38]And it was a gift that they gave me, right?
[6:41]So yeah, I mean, then there's a whole process of writing and launching the book.
[6:45]I don't need to go on in that amount.
[6:47]No, it's fascinating.
[6:49]Yes, to it's tough to own a business, but also very rewarding.
[6:53]So rewarding.
[6:54]I feel like it's like starting a business is like raising kids in a way because
[7:00]just when you think you figured it out, everything changes again.
[7:03]And you have to like totally rethink everything, not everything.
[7:08]But you have to just always be ready to pivot and that's part of the process.
[7:13]At first, I didn't realize that.
[7:15]And I think if I had to do it, you know,
[7:17]if I was telling someone to start a business, like, yeah,
[7:20]just make sure you always feel like you have your finger on it.
[7:23]But then like, no, it's just about to change.
[7:25]So like, don't like post and like, don't frame anything.
[7:29]It's all going to change.
[7:30]And then, right, right.
[7:32]The experimentation aspect and the embracing the lack of control,
[7:36]which I think is so hard for people who do start businesses.
[7:39]I mean, this has been, I was, I was literally sobbing last night to a video of myself talking
[7:44]about this moment because it's been so pivotal.
[7:47]But really, you know, I try to tell my family and friends are so sick of hearing about the book.
[7:51]It's like, this is not the moment of self promotion.
[7:53]This is the culmination of everything I've been believing and driving toward
[7:58]and experimenting with myself in this super scrappy way,
[8:02]starting out as a solo printer now to someone who has a small team of people.
[8:05]Not huge.
[8:07]And believing in myself, even when no one did.
[8:10]And coming up with these creative concepts, like I've got in the book,
[8:14]these four types of writers who get book deals.
[8:16]I remember back and forth with my assistant saying like,
[8:19]does this make sense? The idea or what is the people going to laugh at the
[8:23]everywhereist you're now stood?
[8:25]I love the quiz, by the way, the quiz is perfect.
[8:27]Oh, my gosh.
[8:28]I'm like, love a good quiz.
[8:29]What are you?
[8:30]Which one were you?
[8:31]Oh, my gosh.
[8:31]What was I?
[8:32]I'll recap for your for your audience.
[8:34]So, or do you remember?
[8:35]Hold on, hold on.
[8:37]What do you think I am?
[8:39]Well, where did it go?
[8:40]What's my type?
[8:42]Should I answer the questions for you?
[8:43]Uh, sure, what is it?
[8:45]Select one question.
[8:46]What part of developing your book do you most enjoy?
[8:48]research, networking, inspiration, brainstorming?
[8:52]D, I am most comfortable when I'm prepared.
[8:56]That's A, I think of myself as a strong listener, A, although actually
[9:00]also C, happiest when I'm connected with others.
[9:03]Actually, also D, happiest when I'm in the room by myself being creative.
[9:07]And maybe also be a big personality voice.
[9:09]So, let's forget that question.
[9:11]Let's see.
[9:12]I mean, I'm going to go with D.
[9:15]I think D, I think I'm D, I'm D, I'd either.
[9:19]Okay.
[9:19]I think I'm a guy.
[9:20]Yeah, okay.
[9:21]So, I think so too.
[9:23]I think, no, I think you are.
[9:25]I mean, you're now the everywhereist.
[9:26]So just to for your audience who doesn't know what these types are,
[9:30]the idea is obviously the big ideas person.
[9:32]That's kind of accessible.
[9:34]The everywhereist is, you know, an author has a big platform,
[9:37]which we can also go into as well.
[9:39]It's like sort of the most sought after author today in publishing is the person who has
[9:43]has that built-in visible audience.
[9:45]And it feels really comfortable connecting with those people.
[9:49]The data collector is the person who's doing all the research, figuring out what about their
[9:54]book is distinguished and different from what's about there.
[9:57]And then the crusader.
[10:00]Is the person will stop at nothing who gets motivated by rejection who comes up with the next idea and keeps knocking on the door, obviously that's totally me that's the story right that's what you have to be as an agent most writers feel like they are at least two types and never do they feel they're all for you know the encouraging news and get signed as you definitely do not need to be all four i've seen each of these types succeed.
[10:23]But the key which is further you know swing and refined in the book is you need to know how to leverage your strength as that writer type and overcome that natural resistance or weakness that the skeptical agent publisher or reader on the other side is thinking this won't succeed for x reason and you have to make sure in your pitch letter that you're one step ahead of that thinking by leading with your strength so.
[10:50]So that's a kind of fun you know four types of writers is this science is this should you write your query letter to an agent and say i'm a crusader no you absolutely should not right but you should use these characteristics to show why you are in all for why you have that potential I love that well anything that gives you.
[11:08]clear guidelines hmm like in an endeavor and a pursuit that feels so loosey goosey like no I'm a reason like okay I have the most research proposal ever with like all these statistics and this must convince someone and then it doesn't or this is the most pretty media ever and it doesn't sell or this is a great novel but no one thinks so right what do you do yeah i mean going back to the research component you'd be surprised how many people do not do their research.
[11:38]So they're like in the ivory tower they're in the writers retreat they're writing the memoir and they come for and they're like I've got to get this out agents publishers what they haven't done is read in their category.
[11:49]Yeah see what selling on Amazon and then read an agents list like the titles we represent to see where that's a fit they're not on publishers marketplace seen what what is selling in their categories so it's like that that creativity in that passion is overriding the need.
[12:05]research for market research which you know you have to do before you're approaching an agent or publisher so that's the research bit what do you do in your desperate you're getting lots of rejections and no one's requesting your manuscript.
[12:17]get signs as a whole chapter on that like how to follow up constructively how to elicit feedback that gives you a means for improvement you know but that begins with seeing yourself as.
[12:30]On par with an agent we're not on a pedestal we're not better than you are holier than now there's no hierarchy here we're looking for our next great talent.
[12:38]you're fueling our business so this notion that I pitched an agent and I didn't hear back so I'm no good.
[12:45]Is like I wanted to spell that myth entirely it's not you it's your pitch you're not breaking through because you haven't gotten that crucial aspect of this process right.
[12:57]and maybe you've just landed in someone spam filter maybe the intern with that day or maybe you know you had like there was a childcare crisis have it's a million times you know so so you can't believe that that one shot you took is enough.
[13:09]yep who was I talking to you it was a couple years ago and I was talking about managing emails or something and they were like oh yeah if someone doesn't follow up with me I assume it's not that important.
[13:22]What that's so rude and they're like no I have too many emails and I just wait because I know then they cut they come a second time and I'm like okay fine I'll pay attention.
[13:32]How many times did I follow up with you to make this connection.
[13:37]You do know if you really feel the look like if you feel it's going to be a connection which you really should feel deeply is going to be that agent right it's not like the.
[13:47]Slushing 50 people I was listening to last guest on the show the author of more and she said I slashed 50 agents I should have gone to five.
[13:56]And this is absolutely what I prescribe in the book it's like you find and this is just what agents do.
[14:01]You know this book that's disguised as how to query is actually about two other things it's about acting as your own best agent and advocate.
[14:09]You're following all the shortcuts and strategies we do because we are in your position too and it's about writing the you know the foundation of a great book.
[14:18]So the pitch letter piece is actually you know the cosmetic detail that gets people in but the but what you learn from into so much more.
[14:26]So these are these are the short cut agents are using we're not going to publishers we don't know and have relationships with and have research deeply and know what books they buy.
[14:35]This I learned this actually my first job after college, I was working at ideal lab and I don't even know why i'm thinking about this, but.
[14:41]People would come and I was like the person who had to deal with all external vendors right who were coming into who wanted our business.
[14:47]And sometimes they come in and pitch me things i'm like why are you pitching me like this magazine you want us to advertise and do you know what we do like why are you here why didn't you like take the time.
[14:57]to read our website and you slept all the way here to Pasadena to me with me like this doesn't make any sense to me and now it's the same thing to we get pictures and i'm like no it says everywhere like we don't do historical fiction and this is based in 1400 or something.
[15:10]I'm like we say that we you know we don't do sci fi like don't just don't send us the sci fi.
[15:15]And for the podcast like to your point like I don't know I the pitches that get attention for anything, whether it's a book or placing that magazine or getting on a podcast or getting your book you know into a store or something you have to know who you're pitching otherwise.
[15:31]People don't be attention like if they're like oh i've noticed every single thing in your bookstore and I think this would fit on the shelf that you're like oh okay you did your research i'm going to.
[15:41]I mean this comes back to dating right like do you want to look desperate because most queries look desperate you know like I need you to make this real so something else I talk about in the book is like don't talk about.
[15:55]I've written but talk about the book that will be this will be or this is is very it's much more imperative than you know talking about a book that you're hoping.
[16:07]Well to i'm hoping you'll like i'm hoping you'll like me i mean what are signs what are signs of a desperate pitch.
[16:16]So just as you said it's knowing the wrong category and it's that it's that hoping quality right so a crucial mistake if we got into platform and how important that is for authors is they'll say.
[16:27]I'm going to build a social media following I am going to hire i'm going to go this is the best i'm i'll be happy to do any media or book tours that you that my publisher puts me on it's like.
[16:39]yeah everyone would be happy to have that what are you doing now what are you doing now to prove that you have that conviction and that audience.
[16:48]So what is it what are the signs of a desperate pitch that's a great question i haven't been asked on podcast before it's that kind of sloppy subject on you'd be surprised some writers we're a.
[16:57]We're a mass list of agents in their colleagues like even an open cc yeah can you imagine it's usually from an a well address not going to lie like if someone who is living in a different sort of.
[17:09]You know I say that this business even when I started however many years 15 years ago.
[17:14]You used to be able to mail manuscripts to an agent's desk and so you know their assistant's desk was like a mile high.
[17:22]You would think that that would be a bad thing right but actually someone has to open those manuscripts i'm not to take a peak now your everything's on your email.
[17:31]So there's so much weight on how you got that right trying to answer your question more clearly what what are the signs of a desperate pitch like a sloppy subject line in overly long synopsis that doesn't.
[17:42]It doesn't actually tell us what the books about meaning why we would care.
[17:48]We see so many memoirs i'm sure you do too that have this really compelling moving story of like loss and grief and trauma and affliction and cancer and sickness and I mean wild you know really upsetting stories.
[18:03]Nothing in that unfortunately is telling me why anyone who doesn't know you you know why a cold reader is going to come to your work what are they going to take away.
[18:14]Right, so the pitch will there's no synopsis of summary of what your book is the pitch is why your book now and who are you to write it.
[18:22]That's such good advice wow what if people don't know yeah I mean that's a really good question like yep I don't know because I wanted to write it.
[18:34]Yeah I feel like people I think that's such a good thing and also I don't think people know how to necessarily build a platform if they don't have anything to build it around like let's say they're just.
[18:42]at home and they write a novel and you say well what are you doing now and they're like well what am I going to market like my yeah yeah so that is this entire chapter on the book called get seen and it's about the importance of road testing.
[18:56]Meaning you you go on to social media and it's it's daunting but it's a tool for you you know I've tried to make it messed daunting and how I've talked about it but I'm doing it it's it's hugely vulnerable I am fearful about doing it every day putting yourself out there.
[19:11]But what it gives you is you can identify the content and the voice and what you have to offer like what I call your VC your voice content and offering that people look to you distinctly for what they're resonating with your pain attention.
[19:25]To what popular not not only in your sphere but what you are uniquely providing you'll now have the clues of what should you know which being your book so you know.
[19:35]Using myself as an example I wanted to be a literary fiction writer and short you know standing my short source in New Yorker and writing poetry.
[19:42]And you never in a million years would have told me that I represent business books by entrepreneurs that I'd write one myself about like it's so wild but why is that.
[19:54]Why is that perfect for the market because it's what I know it's my expertise and it's what I can actually it's the.
[20:00]So I can lend, you know, being, and so so many people are sort of like, I see memoirs come in and when we coach them, they end up self help writers.
[20:09]Because they're not, you know, Prince Harry, they're not Britney Spears. They're not ZB. Oh, and so it's like, you need, you need some other takeaway that is your distinct perspective to make this a contribution on a crowded shelf.
[20:25]I mean, I had a really hard time with my memoir did. Oh my gosh, we have a whole podcast on just you. I'm sure you're listening or snow, but I need to understand this. So yeah, I mean, it's rejected like a million times. I had to redo it and redo it and it took forever. Yeah. Yeah. And then it's worth it. Right. Like it's worth it. Or you, or you pivot just as we were talking about in the beginning. Yeah. I've changed again. Yep. Yeah. So my gosh.
[20:52]Do you think that everybody should be published who wants to be published?
[20:58]Another great question. So if so many people believe they have a book in them. And the answer is, is very immediate for me and it's no.
[21:05]And that's not a bad thing. Right. So we've seen people go off to self publish and be very successful at that. So it doesn't need to be a traditional deal with one of the big five publishers.
[21:16]Maybe you have a podcast instead because that's the best format for your content. Maybe you have a YouTube channel. Maybe you are just writing articles. So something I tell memoirs to do novelists to do.
[21:28]Take your and this is another form of road testing to see if something works and something has an audience is take sort of the nut of what you want to write about.
[21:36]If you're a novelist like the very best scene, place that as an essay, see if people respond to it and then we know you're on to something and maybe you should just be writing essays for medium or you know for some other format, sub stack and still make money doing it. Maybe make better money, maybe grow more of a following doing it than attempt the really the brave and difficult world of book publishing. So no, it's not for everyone at all. And it really comes down to not only your talent on the page, but.
[22:06]the gap in the market that you're filling, you know, yes, I know and no one was an agent who had written a book about how to get published. Plenty of coaches and authors have the books are also years old and the landscapes really changed. So my publisher was, you know, said someone needs to do that and I will take a flyer on you, you know, but that's what this is about identifying the gap in the market, making that case clear to an agent. Yeah, that's so true.
[22:36]I want to be Glen and Doyle, which we get so many, you know, I'm the next Glen and Doyle on the next untamed. Read the Amazon reviews for what she, what she didn't deliver in her book, what people are seeking as the follow up or the question they wish she had answered. That's your clue that something's missing that you can provide. I love that. My gosh, that's good advice. Do you feel like now you're going to get a trillion pitches.
[23:06]to do with that because. Okay, so here's here's the pitch for, you know, the business that I'm really excited about is the coaching side of this. And incidentally, I went to dinner with an editor tonight to go and she was like, writers who are represented by agents need coaching because we're now all in a volume business editors requiring more than they can physically do. There's not the support for them. Agents are over subscribed in the advances are smaller. So they're like,
[23:36]throwing spaghetti at the wall, which means there is less time for writers to get the editing and the coaching that they need. So what I'm going to do with these eight million queries that come in, we already as a small agency get 50 a day before this book even launched right. We're a small agency. So imagine the rest. And we can talk about how to choose between solo agencies and big agencies. But what I imagine is going to happen is we're going to see 80% of those need more of the coaching.
[24:06]That teaches them what's your big idea? You know, that's that's the kind of books we represent big idea books. And that can apply to novels too. That's not just a nonfiction formula. So they need that before they're going to agents. Yeah. And they really need to know that you have to not go straight to publishers. Oh, I know. I know. If you, if you could just try to get that. What I think you should do. I mean, this is my two cents. Tell me. Instead of them just piling up in an inbox because they are people.
[24:36]out there who are desperate for connection and knowledge and all of that. I think you should take all of them and put them in a Facebook group together. So that they make connections and like you're like, here's our, you know, wait. It's almost like the waiting room. It's like here's the waiting room. Why don't you chat online while you're waiting to get in the door at the doctor's office. Like here's our big waiting room and put them all in there. Have them meet each other and then put on a giant conference and have them all come because I was actually thinking of putting out a conference.
[25:06]for aspiring authors or you bring in like speed dating and, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah. And that's, you know, that's a goldmine to have all those aspiring authors or put them all in a mailing list. Yeah. Let's. Yes. And we're doing that. But you can mark it to them. You can have other people market to them. You could say I have this list. Would you like to advertise on my list? I mean, you have the sounder. I shouldn't even tell you. I'm sure you thought a million. But here's, here's what's, what's, I'm doing everything. But, but the, the, the interest in that for my.
[25:36]instance is that I'm being their guinea pig. You know, I'm, I'm experimenting with all of these guerrilla marketing strategies that are actually working. And now I can tell them for their book launches like, this is what you should do what you shouldn't do. So that, that sort of knowledge coupled with the compassion piece that I never had. I can just admit. You know, I, I never understood what it was. I was like, come on, like, suck up and go get blurps. You know, like, how hard is this to write a letter to someone to an author that you know.
[26:06]and ask for a blurb. It was the most vulnerable moment for me when I first had to do that. Like writing Adam Grant blurb this book. I had to write someone I admire so much and say, this tiny baby book and you get a thousand queries a day. Like, and you write a really personal letter. But so that, you know, yes, authors have to be thinking of a book as part of a much greater puzzle and career. Cause we're not in it for one hit wonders and either you. Right.
[26:36]You're envisioning like the career and this. And my gosh, I feel like we could talk about this for like a hundred years. I want to talk about you. I want to talk about your whole career. But no, no, I just mean like the state of the industry and what we can, like what you can do and, you know, all the, it's so, because it's so hard. And then after you get the deal, it's still hard. Like it's just harder. It's harder. It's harder. I mean, it's, there's so many things like no one journey, no one book journey is the same.
[27:06]That's what keeps it exciting for agents and publishers in a way. But it's also how many conversations we're going to have about how the jacket sucks. How many conversations about how the public system deliver, you know, my editor didn't respond in a timely way. It's like, authors, I feel your pain. Yeah. You know, I, I feel that firsthand though. So yeah, it's tricky. It's tricky. It is very. And so much is generated by the author. As you know, the author has to do everything.
[27:36]but this is it. This is what the world is right now. Should I be saying that? Yes, you should. Because then people aren't just disappointed and surprised or whatever. Or that they think that there is this publisher is a great gift. Like again, it's this, it's this false notion that an agent or publisher is the greatest gift I could receive. No, you are the greatest gift we could receive. You know, but there's a lot of pressure on you to hustle into work hard. Yeah. So it's just reframing that.
[28:06]Connor, the days of like, you know, sending in something and then sitting back and becoming like, yeah, inclusive and famous and like Donna Torx, you know, and Barbara King. So we can't do it anymore. Yeah. I had Barbara King somewhere on my podcast. Oh, she's a favorite. She's a favorite. Just saying, like, nobody is. Nobody can do it. John Irving, I had on my part. I'm like, these got, they're like, legend. Yeah, they used to just be like hiding and no one can hide. Everything has to be out there. Whether you're.
[28:36]John Irving or you're the person who just got over horrible diagnosis and wants to write about it. And you know, everyone's out there. And that's just the state of the world. So you can either keep complaining about it or find ways to manage it. Yeah. How do you deal with all the engagement and, you know, around social media that you have to. I mean, I wasn't on social media until I was trying to sell a book and they were like, you have no platform. And I was like, okay, I guess I should like start an Instagram account.
[29:06]I mean, literally like, yeah. And you know, it's a full time job. It's a full time. Like, I do this. I do it an hour still today. Like every day. And I'm always like, okay, this isn't working. This isn't working. What's happened? I feel like this growth is not like, did it? Let me just, let me test this out. I mean, you can't stop. I'm always like every minute. And I'm sure you are too. Like, how is it working? Where is this landing? Like, who should I pitch my book to like bookstores? That's a whole other thing.
[29:36]you know, that's what I'm saying. Yeah. On and on. But all to say, like your book is so important because everyone needs to like start at least on the same page. Like this is like, you know, this is like what to expect when you're expecting. Just at least read that and then go to the pool. I love that. Thank you. I love that. Yeah. Every every all they're started is unknown. We all started in the same place. Having.
[30:00]an idea and a desire to write.
[30:02]Yeah.
[30:03]But there's so much more to it.
[30:05]Unless you're like a massive celebrity.
[30:07]And you, but for most of us who are not celebrities,
[30:11]that is not real.
[30:12]So anyway, really great.
[30:14]I'm going to be recommending this all the time.
[30:17]Thank you.
[30:18]So you're, you know, thank you for taking your time
[30:21]out of your busy work life to help all the people
[30:23]who really need the book.
[30:24]So thank you.
[30:26]Yeah, I hope I hope it helps people.
[30:28]I just want people to come in way more educated
[30:30]when they're querying agents.
[30:31]It doesn't have to be our agency.
[30:33]Right.
[30:33]You know, it's just, it applies to the market.
[30:35]It's just what publishers are looking for,
[30:37]what readers are looking for, because we're all
[30:39]thinking like readers.
[30:40]So do you have, you haven't identified
[30:42]what's in it for the reader?
[30:44]You just won't pass that first test.
[30:46]So anyway, I could talk all day with you.
[30:49]I know, so true.
[30:49]OK, so everybody, thank you.
[30:51]Listen to Halford.
[30:52]Go get it now.
[30:54]Thank you, Sivi.
[30:58]Thank you.
[30:58]And I'm sorry this took us so long to schedule.
[31:01]No, I'm so thrilled.
[31:02]We need to have more conversations.
[31:04]OK, thanks so much.
[31:05]In the name of the book.
[31:06]OK, bye.
[31:07]Bye.
[31:09]Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms.
[31:11]Don't have time to read books.
[31:12]Don't forget to follow me on Instagram, at Zibi Owens,
[31:16]and at Moms, don't have time to read books.
[31:18]Also sign up for my newsletter at Zibi Owens.com
[31:20]and sign up for my virtual book club
[31:22]and meet lots of authors on Zoom.
[31:24]Every other week.
[31:24]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan Heck,
[31:26]Texture Sound for the Sound Editing.
[31:28]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions
[31:30]for providing this fantastic intro and outro music.