Zibby discusses BLANK with editor Carmen Johnson
[0:04]Welcome to moms don't have time to be books with Zibi. I'm the host Zibi Owens.
[0:09]I am an author, my latest is blank, pub date March 1st, a novel.
[0:13]I'm also a podcaster, obviously, a publisher, a bookstore owner, and so much more.
[0:18]If you love books, you're in the right place.
[0:21]In fact, we call it the Zibiverse, or really, the LA Times called it the Zibiverse, and we're going with it.
[0:26]Go to Zibi Owens.com to learn more and follow me on Instagram at Zibi Owens.
[0:33]Okay, so it's Wednesday and on Friday.
[0:36]Blank, my novel comes out.
[0:38]And yes, I am freaking out. I am so excited.
[0:41]I hope that you all will grab a copy of blank,
[0:44]will order it from your independent bookstores and all of the rest.
[0:48]Buy it online, buy it everywhere, buy multiple copies,
[0:51]and come to all of my events.
[0:53]I have events on Friday, no, on Thursday at Bedford Playhouse,
[0:58]in Bedford, New York with Anabelle Moynihan.
[1:00]I have on Friday with Ariana Huffington, an event at girls right now in New York City.
[1:06]On Sunday, I'll be at Newtonville Books in Newton, Massachusetts,
[1:10]with Hannah Halperin.
[1:12]And on Tuesday, I'll be at P&T Knitwear with Jenny Mullin.
[1:16]And so if you can come to any of those first four events, I would love to see you.
[1:20]In the meantime, this is my blank week of episodes,
[1:23]and this episode is with Carmen Johnson, who is my editor.
[1:27]She is the one who acquired bookends when it was a proposal.
[1:31]She acquired blank, and acquired my latest novel,
[1:36]which we will talk about during this episode.
[1:39]The news of that just broke in Variety magazine, which is insane.
[1:43]And Carmen, who I thought was the head of Little A Books from Amazon Publishing,
[1:47]is actually as a different title, which we also discussed in the episode.
[1:51]So you will hear me sounding a bit idiotic.
[1:54]But anyway, it turns out she got promoted at some point from the time where I started with her,
[1:59]or I just misunderstood her role.
[2:01]But anyway, it doesn't matter.
[2:02]That only really matters to me and not to you listeners and readers out there.
[2:06]What matters is that she is my editor, and I adore her.
[2:10]She is the consummate professional, so good, so calm, so smart.
[2:16]And she makes my books so much better than they would be.
[2:19]So without Carmen, there would be no bookends, blank, or the next book.
[2:23]So get to know Carmen and hear about the writing process,
[2:26]how we have worked on our books together, how we collaborate,
[2:30]and how it might help you.
[2:32]Check it out.
[2:33]Welcome, Carmen.
[2:34]Thanks so much for coming.
[2:35]And moms don't have time to read books.
[2:37]To discuss the book that you yourself edited, blank by Zippy Owens.
[2:41]I'm so excited to be here, Zippy.
[2:44]This is great.
[2:45]Oh, I feel very honored to be on your show.
[2:48]Oh my gosh.
[2:49]Well, I feel like all this show has led me to you.
[2:53]So this is perfect.
[2:54]You know, without the show, we would not be talking.
[2:56]So of course you should come on.
[2:58]So I wanted to introduce you to listeners and also find out for real.
[3:04]When I first set you the bookends proposal,
[3:08]or Joe sent it to you, Joe Valtry at Gersh.
[3:10]When you got the proposal, and then I sent like a little addendum to it,
[3:14]tell me why you were attracted to the bookends,
[3:17]which is what got us to blank.
[3:19]And like, why did you?
[3:21]And did, you know, did you have any vigorous revisions?
[3:24]Like, tell me about that that time first.
[3:27]Well, you know, when you get a submission in as an editor,
[3:31]you you think about what is it about it that sort of stands out that is unique?
[3:36]And what will make readers be really drawn to it?
[3:39]And I just thought your story was just so vulnerable and raw and honest.
[3:44]And I felt like a lot of readers would be able to relate to it.
[3:48]And so, you know, it always starts with the content and the writing and what the story is about.
[3:54]And that's how we make our decisions.
[3:58]And I felt like that story was just so universal and so great.
[4:01]And then it was just sort of an added bonus that years of the Owens,
[4:05]and that you're so good at connecting writers and readers.
[4:10]And you've built this amazing community at the end of the day.
[4:13]It was about your incredible story and you being so vulnerable on the page,
[4:17]which, you know, a lot of memoirs you get in.
[4:19]And it just feels like a glossy sort of version of what they want to write about.
[4:24]And yours felt like it went right to the heart of it.
[4:27]And I also liked how you had books as such a big theme throughout the memoir.
[4:32]So it felt unique in that way too.
[4:34]I felt like there would be other ways for readers to sort of like get into it and relate to it.
[4:39]And, you know, I could just imagine them like circling passages where you're talking about certain books that impacted your life and them really liking it.
[4:47]So it was it was the content and it was such a great pitch.
[4:50]So I'm so glad we published it together.
[4:52]Yes.
[4:53]Okay.
[4:54]Excellent.
[4:55]What is your process at Little A for evaluating pitches?
[4:58]When you get something, does it go to you?
[5:00]Do you have a huge team?
[5:01]Like what is that like?
[5:02]Yeah, we mainly work with agents.
[5:04]So agents will submit an email with, you know, manuscript, a full manuscript or sometimes it'll be a proposal for fiction.
[5:11]It's usually a full manuscript.
[5:13]And we read the query letters.
[5:15]I think query letters are great and important.
[5:17]And then we decide, you know, which editor would be a great fit for this.
[5:21]So, you know, oftentimes I'll look at it.
[5:24]Oh, this is sounds really great.
[5:26]Maybe this editor over here would be perfect for it based on their list.
[5:29]Or I'll just read it myself.
[5:31]And I, you know, I love it.
[5:33]So we have a great team of editors here.
[5:36]But like I said before, at the end of the day, it's about you connecting as a human to what you're reading.
[5:41]And if you feel like there is a spark, there's something there, then that would make you a good editor for it.
[5:47]There are times where I read something and I admire it.
[5:51]I think it's beautiful.
[5:52]I think it's great.
[5:53]I think the author is super talented.
[5:54]But for whatever reason, it's not the best possible fit.
[5:58]And that would just be a disservice.
[6:00]I think for the author too.
[6:01]Like you, you want an editor who gets you as an author who gets your vision and is just 100% on board.
[6:08]So, I mean, I think at the end of the day, it's just about that reader connection that you have with content.
[6:13]And how did you become an editor?
[6:15]Well, I, after college years ago, years ago, I moved out to New York and started working as an assistant for Carl Bernstein, who was writing a biography of Hillary Clinton.
[6:27]And the book was published by Knoth.
[6:30]And so after my stint as sort of a research assistant, moved over to Knoth.
[6:34]And I was there for about five years.
[6:36]And then I moved over to Amazon Publishing.
[6:39]And then I've been here at Amazon Publishing for, you know, I think we're in the double dit digits at this point.
[6:44]So a long time.
[6:45]And it's been great.
[6:46]And I love publishing because it is creative.
[6:50]You work with different types of people.
[6:52]Things are always changing.
[6:54]There's new books.
[6:55]But yet you are, you have some structure.
[6:58]You know, you have some structure and you have a team that you work with.
[7:02]But I think it's such a, such a privilege.
[7:04]I know you feel the same way given what you do.
[7:06]Such a privilege to just be working on books and talking to authors.
[7:10]My favorite thing is to get a proposal in or a project in and then be able to talk to the author.
[7:15]Like a few days later and kind of pick their brain.
[7:18]It's just such a gift.
[7:19]And I love telling my kids that I work on books.
[7:22]And they're always asking, like, mom, what, you know, what's the new story you're working on?
[7:27]So it's just such an amazing career, I think.
[7:30]I think that's one of the best parts to with the kids.
[7:33]And I'm like, oh my gosh, look, this book just came.
[7:35]What's it about?
[7:36]Or showing them like potential covers.
[7:37]No, I have my publisher head on.
[7:39]But showing potential covers and titles.
[7:42]And like, what do you guys think?
[7:43]And then they see it.
[7:44]And they're like, oh my gosh, this is that book.
[7:46]I love sharing covers and titles, which is people that are outside the industry.
[7:51]That's the, those are people we want to get.
[7:53]And my daughter will often pick the best cover from a lineup.
[7:56]So I just, I love that.
[7:58]I will give her an internship.
[8:00]Oh my gosh.
[8:03]Okay.
[8:04]So when it came to blank, people are asking, like, how did that become a thing?
[8:10]And, you know, it wasn't even totally written.
[8:12]Like, what happened?
[8:13]So what happened?
[8:14]Well, Zippy, you have amazing ideas.
[8:16]And you are so creative.
[8:19]And I feel like we talk, we've talked probably every day in the last like two years.
[8:23]And it's because you, you just, I think that you go about your day picking up ideas.
[8:31]And I think that you have such a great ear.
[8:34]I think you're always listening to dialogue and the way people are interacting with each other and you,
[8:39]you pull that into your fiction.
[8:41]And so with blank, I think, you know, you and I just heard some brainstorming like,
[8:45]what's the next idea?
[8:46]You couldn't write memoir after memoir after memoir, right?
[8:48]You wanted to go into fiction.
[8:50]And this just felt like a natural progression where you're sort of, you're still writing about things that are very personal to you.
[8:56]Clearly, like, you're writing about books, you're writing about publishing, you're writing about being a mom relationships.
[9:01]And so it felt very much sort of you, but the fiction version of it.
[9:07]And I think you were inspired by living in LA and traveling and just the crazy world of book publishing, which sounds a little more glamorous in the book.
[9:18]I just think it came, it came from your idea and then you and I just kind of going back and forth.
[9:24]I think one of the, one of the most interesting things about blank was trying to balance that zany, crazy, fun aspect with it.
[9:32]And the, the down to earth relationships of the story.
[9:36]And at the end of the day, you just want readers to really connect to it.
[9:39]And I think it was so fun sort of balancing that out.
[9:41]And I just admired how you were just willing to go for it and just take some risks and, and just make it a really fun read for people.
[9:51]At the end of the day, people just want to be entertained.
[9:53]And I feel like you get that as a writer so, so well.
[9:57]And it must be because you're constantly reading.
[10:00]I am constantly reading.
[10:01]As are you.
[10:02]Were you worried at all, like, what if she can't do fiction?
[10:07]No, because I had read enough of what you'd written before,
[10:12]I thought maybe we would be working more on structure
[10:15]or more, just, you know, the beginning of middle and end.
[10:18]But in terms of the actual writing of it,
[10:20]I knew that if you stayed within, you know,
[10:23]great characters and great dialogue, you know, you've got it.
[10:26]It's, that's just something you, you're sort of like,
[10:29]you've born with it, you know, and I just think that you have
[10:31]that year for dialogue and great characters.
[10:34]So it was really a question of what are those characters
[10:37]going to do and at what point and how do we get to the end?
[10:40]And that's something that we always, we figure out.
[10:43]But remember when I thought I was done
[10:45]and it was only like 30,000 words?
[10:47]And I was like, here you go.
[10:49]Well, you know, it's an interesting way of writing.
[10:51]I wonder if that's how you'll handle your next book
[10:53]where you sort of, you write the skeleton of it.
[10:56]I feel like, and then we go in and add things
[10:59]whereas I think some other authors will, you know,
[11:02]maybe work a lot on that first act.
[11:04]And then they're like, okay, now I gotta get through
[11:06]the middle and the end.
[11:07]Whereas you, you always had that complete picture
[11:10]and then you kind of went in and filled it out,
[11:11]which is really interesting.
[11:12]I think it's pretty unique, actually.
[11:14]And then, like, am I going to do this again?
[11:16]I don't know, but I think that you, you work so fast.
[11:21]And I think maybe that first sort of draft of it
[11:25]was so important for you just to get it on the page,
[11:28]get all your thoughts on the page.
[11:30]And then you could kind of think, okay,
[11:32]how do I want to add more scenes here and there?
[11:34]I mean, it seemed to work for you.
[11:36]And I also, there's something wrong with a shorter book too.
[11:39]I know, I just signed our contract about two seconds ago.
[11:42]And in the contract, it was like 70,000 words.
[11:44]And I was like 70,000, I thought it was 60,000.
[11:48]That changes everything 10,000 words.
[11:51]No, I mean, at the end of the day,
[11:53]there is no perfect word count.
[11:55]I think it's really what the story needs.
[11:58]Thank you.
[11:58]Right?
[11:59]And this end.
[12:00]And so I'm not, you know, I'm not going to be counting
[12:02]every word, but I do think that it's about making sure
[12:06]that the reader feels like they've got a satisfying ending,
[12:09]you know, or like the character has been fully fleshed out.
[12:12]And that will happen.
[12:13]Yep.
[12:15]And now we have our third project together over herd,
[12:18]which we just announced, which I'm so excited about.
[12:20]Although maybe people on the listening to the podcast
[12:22]missed it on Instagram or my newsletter,
[12:24]in which case they should be following me on Instagram
[12:27]and getting my newsletter.
[12:28]But it's fine.
[12:29]Anyway, maybe they're hearing it now for the first time
[12:31]that the third book we're doing together is over herd.
[12:34]Yes.
[12:35]And we sat together with the sun sort of uncomfortably streaming
[12:38]in our faces at quarters, trying to like finalize this idea.
[12:42]I feel like I just have to wait for these crazy things
[12:45]in my own life to happen.
[12:46]And then they have to become books, you know?
[12:48]I don't know.
[12:49]And one word titles, that's your brand now, I think.
[12:52]No, I think it was, we had a great spark of an idea
[12:56]of what it could be.
[12:58]And I felt like the pitch of, you know,
[13:01]saying something that you didn't want broadcasted
[13:05]to your community, it's so relatable and so cringy.
[13:09]And then the added layer of having sort of a celebrity
[13:12]component to it, I just, I think it's really fun.
[13:16]And it totally feels like something
[13:17]you're gonna have a blast writing.
[13:19]And I'm gonna have a blast editing and reading.
[13:21]So it just feels like a natural zippy book.
[13:24]And I, it just feels like there's so much potential
[13:27]for many more books to come.
[13:28]Yay, I love hearing that.
[13:31]I know, my biggest challenge so far is I'm like,
[13:34]I hope this character doesn't sound too much like PIPA.
[13:38]Yeah, I mean, we'll work on that together.
[13:40]You know, there's, there's gonna be some similarities,
[13:44]of course, it's your voice.
[13:45]You're not gonna change your voice 100%.
[13:47]It's still sort of like the same type of category book.
[13:50]But, you know, she'll be in different situations.
[13:52]And she's gonna have different challenges.
[13:54]And that will, I think, naturally help us figure out,
[13:58]how do we make sure that she feels different?
[14:00]And, but she'll still be funny, you know?
[14:02]And they'll still be funny moments.
[14:04]And then I think readers will,
[14:06]that'll be sort of a plus anyway.
[14:08]It would be too weird to have a character
[14:10]that just felt like completely out of left field.
[14:12]And then maybe there's other secondary characters
[14:14]where you wanna try some other things with, you know?
[14:17]But I'm not too worried about it.
[14:19]It's a different story, different name,
[14:22]different hair color, maybe, so far
[14:25]the hair color is the same.
[14:26]But I could change it, she could go get some highlights
[14:29]and the whole book, whole book of change.
[14:31]But the basic premise of overheard is that
[14:34]a bookstore owner in LA
[14:37]get her conversation with her good friend,
[14:40]gets picked up over her,
[14:41]over the live stream at her son's football game.
[14:44]And it's about her, her ex and his movie star,
[14:47]her more and what happens after that.
[14:50]So yes, right.
[14:52]I just, I just finished the scene
[14:54]where the ex has been introduces her to the kids.
[14:59]So what's the hardest part of writing it?
[15:02]Or the easiest?
[15:04]So I have this crazy thing that happens to me
[15:07]when I write fiction, which I don't understand
[15:10]that I'm almost embarrassed to say,
[15:11]but I always fall asleep.
[15:14]Like I don't fall asleep doing almost anything.
[15:18]Like I keep going.
[15:19]And I don't know what it is if I'm just like,
[15:21]so relaxed and I'm in it or whatever.
[15:23]I'm not bored, but I just get to the sleepy.
[15:26]So this has been my challenge.
[15:28]Like, I wake while you're writing.
[15:30]Are you doing it right before bad?
[15:31]Is that what's going on?
[15:32]No, I've experimented with all different times.
[15:35]I mean, deep down, I am very tired.
[15:37]I don't know.
[15:38]It's like an exorcism or something.
[15:39]I like write a little bit and then I have to like,
[15:42]I don't know, recover that I have to go back to it.
[15:44]So I don't know if that happened also with blank,
[15:46]but I thought it was just weird and quirky,
[15:50]but now it's happening again.
[15:51]I'm like, what the heck?
[15:52]The only other child ever happened to me was when Kyle
[15:55]was converting and every time we went to like the rabbi studio
[15:58]and he started talking, I would fall asleep,
[16:00]which was also really embarrassing.
[16:01]But since then, those are the only times I ever nap.
[16:04]It's bizarre.
[16:05]Well, maybe you just need more sleep
[16:06]and also maybe you need to drink more coffee
[16:09]or have some more caffeine when you're writing.
[16:12]I think it was Lori Moore that said
[16:14]she always put her first cup of coffee on the page.
[16:17]So like that first morning pup
[16:19]where you're kind of like waking up,
[16:22]your brain is being activated,
[16:24]get that down on paper.
[16:26]Yeah, it's true.
[16:27]I'm sort of chronically sleep deprived,
[16:29]but I'll stay awake and get the rest done.
[16:32]That's so funny.
[16:33]It's a new one for me.
[16:34]The readers will not fall asleep
[16:36]when they're reading it.
[16:37]No, it's really fun.
[16:38]And then I go back to it and I was like,
[16:40]oh my gosh, did I write that?
[16:41]And then I just pick up and keep going.
[16:45]No, that must be really fun to go back
[16:46]and reread what you've written
[16:47]and be snorbed charmed by it.
[16:49]That's a good sign.
[16:50]Yeah, that's a good sign.
[16:52]I hope.
[16:52]Also, I'm having so much fun writing about the bookstore
[16:55]because now that I own a bookstore,
[16:56]I have all this knowledge of that particular world
[16:59]and it's so fun to be able to share it.
[17:01]I'm having a lot of fun with that.
[17:03]Yeah, is there anything about owning a bookstore
[17:05]that you just completely surprised you
[17:06]or you had no idea that bookstore owners
[17:10]were sort of dealing with this other thing?
[17:12]Just like the stress of inventory management
[17:16]and returns and literally packing boxes and receipts
[17:21]and figuring out when to return what
[17:23]and how it's a finite amount of space in a bookstore.
[17:28]Yeah.
[17:28]I just had a call for an hour with Sherry
[17:30]and she does the first pass of buying
[17:33]and then we go through all the titles together.
[17:34]And I'm like, where are we gonna put all of these books?
[17:36]This is just like April through August.
[17:38]Like, we already have all the other books.
[17:40]So if we don't pick books that sell,
[17:42]there's nothing to be spaced for the new books.
[17:43]And anyway, it's like a puzzle.
[17:46]It's the glamorous side of owning a bookstore, exactly.
[17:50]But now I get it and they're like,
[17:52]someone said bookstore took like one copy of your book
[17:53]and I'd be like, one copy,
[17:55]but it's actually a big deal when we take one copy
[17:57]because we've been debating taking a copy at all.
[17:59]So I don't know.
[18:00]Right.
[18:01]Yeah, now that seems like a big job,
[18:03]the space and inventory and keeping track of everything
[18:06]but it sounds like the events have been amazing there.
[18:08]and people will love going there.
[18:09]So the graduation is really fun.
[18:11]It's really fun.
[18:12]I love it.
[18:13]How do you balance all the authors that you're editing?
[18:16]Like how many authors books?
[18:18]I like to think I'm the only one
[18:19]and you make me feel that way, which is great.
[18:20]But how many are you doing at the same time?
[18:23]I have the perfect amount.
[18:25]It's the perfect amount.
[18:27]I mean, I don't even know how to what number it's sort of,
[18:30]they're all in different phases of their publishing life.
[18:35]So sometimes it's like right when I'm getting
[18:38]the project in and I'm signing it.
[18:39]Sometimes it's in editing, sometimes it's in production.
[18:42]So they're all kind of in a cycle.
[18:44]And what's so fun is that, you know,
[18:47]I get to work on projects that I'm really passionate about
[18:49]and that, you know, I click with the author
[18:52]and it just all works.
[18:53]And it's just fun to be able to work on books where
[18:57]I just feel like I'm talking to my friend
[18:59]about what they're writing.
[19:01]I'm reading books that I would read for pleasure.
[19:04]So it's just sort of a balance.
[19:06]And it's good that all the books are in a different phase.
[19:09]I think it kind of, it helps make things feel fresh too.
[19:13]So like in one phase, I'm thinking about a book cover
[19:16]or in another one, I'm thinking about a title
[19:17]or the other one I'm thinking about, you know,
[19:19]what do I want to offer?
[19:21]And it just keeps you on your toes, I think too.
[19:24]So are you in charge of all the acquisitions for Little A?
[19:28]So I'm associate publisher at Amazon Publishing.
[19:31]So I help oversee the imprints there.
[19:33]So all the imprints.
[19:34]I have that there's another associate publisher,
[19:37]great, her name is Gracie Doyle.
[19:39]And she's fantastic.
[19:40]And we both kind of oversee.
[19:42]And then we have wonderful editorial directors
[19:45]for each imprint.
[19:46]And then we have a wonderful publisher as well.
[19:48]So there's a team of people who discuss projects
[19:53]that we're going to acquire as a team together,
[19:56]along with marketing and publicity.
[19:58]I think you know as being a publisher.
[20:00]There's a lot of stakeholders and a lot of opinions
[20:03]that can help shape the project to be as good as it can be.
[20:07]So it's definitely a team effort.
[20:08]And we just, we rely on, you know,
[20:10]what we can do best,
[20:11]we want at the end of the day,
[20:13]make our authors really happy
[20:15]and do what's best for them in terms of growing their readership.
[20:19]So we were really thoughtful about the types of books
[20:21]that we sign up.
[20:22]And I think at the end of the day,
[20:24]it's like what I was saying earlier.
[20:26]It's, is there gonna be an emotional connection
[20:28]with the book or people gonna just love it
[20:29]or people gonna just tear through it,
[20:31]regardless if it's a romance or mystery
[20:34]or book club fiction or nonfiction.
[20:36]I think it's, at the end of the day,
[20:38]it's about that content and knowing whether we are
[20:40]the right publisher to get it out in front of as many
[20:42]readers as possible.
[20:44]So I thought, and maybe this is just,
[20:46]I thought you only did little A,
[20:48]they were only in charge of that.
[20:49]But it sounds like, so could you,
[20:50]are you editing books that are unlike some of the other
[20:54]like Unionism?
[20:55]Yeah.
[20:55]So yeah, I personally edit some YA,
[20:58]which is great.
[20:59]I also work on Mindy's book studio,
[21:01]which is our imprint with Mindy Kaling.
[21:04]So yeah, we can, as editors at Amazon publishing
[21:07]will acquire across imprints.
[21:09]And I think that's great because basically,
[21:11]an editor doesn't feel like they're only in one lane.
[21:14]And if a project really speaks to them,
[21:16]they can acquire it for other imprints.
[21:18]That's cool.
[21:19]And the other thing to remember is that,
[21:20]I think that at the end of the day,
[21:22]the readers are not so interested in the imprint
[21:26]that the book is being published under
[21:28]at the end of the day.
[21:29]They just want that fantastic cover in the hook,
[21:31]in their author.
[21:33]And so it's sort of like insidery publishing.
[21:36]This is purely for me that I was asking this question.
[21:38]Nobody else will care at all.
[21:41]But yeah, we're a very collaborative team.
[21:43]And it's great.
[21:43]I mean, it feels very much like what you're doing
[21:47]in terms of your media company,
[21:49]your focus is on the authors
[21:51]and making them feel like rock stars.
[21:53]And I love that.
[21:54]And I think that's similar with Amazon publishing too.
[21:56]I mean, like putting my hat on.
[21:58]I mean, it's, as you know, it's very author focused,
[22:01]which I think makes it unique and special.
[22:03]I have had the best time.
[22:04]And I am quick to say that my starting
[22:07]my company is not because my experience with you.
[22:10]In fact, I always say how loyal I am
[22:12]and how grateful I am that you took a chance
[22:14]on me to begin with.
[22:15]And like the power of the Amazon,
[22:17]I know there's a lot of anti-Amazon feelings out there.
[22:21]And I've come up against that a lot
[22:22]with different bookstores and all that.
[22:24]But, you know, at the end of the day,
[22:26]so to speak, we're all just trying to get books
[22:28]into reader's hands and help authors get the word out.
[22:32]Yeah.
[22:33]I mean, there's so much competition right now for attention.
[22:35]Yeah.
[22:36]There's so many different directions
[22:37]a reader could go or a person could go
[22:39]and to convince them to, you know,
[22:41]take six hours and read this book is a big ask.
[22:44]And so we as editors and authors,
[22:47]we have to just make that as seamless as possible.
[22:50]Have you ever wanted to be an author?
[22:52]I'm really happy being an editor.
[22:54]I, you know, and sometimes I'll get ideas.
[22:57]And then I usually just talk to authors about it
[23:00]and make sure that those ideas are in other places.
[23:03]I mean, never say never, but right now,
[23:05]I'm just really happy feeling like
[23:07]I can be sort of behind the scenes
[23:09]and work across a lot of different books.
[23:12]It's just, it's been really fun.
[23:14]Amazing.
[23:14]So where do you think our relationship's gonna go, Carmen?
[23:18]Well, we're gonna keep talking.
[23:20]We're gonna be in touch about your projects.
[23:23]And I think we're gonna learn with every, you know,
[23:26]every project that we do together,
[23:27]I think we're just gonna keep learning
[23:29]and you're gonna continue to grow as an author and writer.
[23:32]And you're gonna figure out, you know,
[23:33]what you like to do and, you know,
[23:36]whether, you know, maybe next time
[23:38]you're not gonna go on a crazy long tour.
[23:40]I don't know.
[23:42]But I think we haven't even left yet.
[23:43]And you're already having me regret it.
[23:46]No, I mean, go and do what you need to do.
[23:48]I mean, it's amazing as a publisher.
[23:50]It's amazing to see you put so much attention and effort
[23:54]and just smart thinking into promoting the book
[23:57]and talking about the book
[23:58]and making sure that everyone knows about it.
[24:00]It's really, it's really great.
[24:02]And you're doing it in a nice way.
[24:04]But I think we're just gonna keep growing it
[24:06]notoriously and creatively
[24:08]and we'll think about what the new cover is gonna look like.
[24:11]So it's a journey, right?
[24:13]I mean, you sign a book contract
[24:15]and then you have to write the project
[24:17]if you haven't already.
[24:18]And then you have to edit it.
[24:19]And then it just goes into that production cycle.
[24:22]It's a journey.
[24:23]And then suddenly, you know, it's a month before publication.
[24:26]And you're like, oh, I got where the time go.
[24:28]It's fun.
[24:29]And we're gonna continue to learn.
[24:31]Awesome.
[24:32]And hopefully continue to have fun.
[24:34]Yes.
[24:35]Well, thank you again.
[24:37]I feel like even though this timing,
[24:40]like I really wanted to be an author when I was nine
[24:43]and my novel is coming out.
[24:45]I'm 47 and a half.
[24:47]And, you know, I wish it had happened sooner.
[24:49]But this is one of those things where I'm like,
[24:51]but I wouldn't necessarily been with you.
[24:52]And I feel like there's something about, no, I mean it.
[24:55]I mean, you know, there's, like you just sort of,
[24:59]it's, you're like the perfect editor to work with.
[25:02]Aww.
[25:03]All these ideas and I, you know,
[25:05]I never feel like I'm doing this by myself,
[25:08]which I was feeling very much like before.
[25:10]And now I just feel like so supported.
[25:12]And like what you said, you're like, well,
[25:13]if it's, you know, my biggest fear,
[25:15]like is it the same character?
[25:16]And you're like, no, we're just gonna figure it out.
[25:17]And I'm like, right, yeah, we're just gonna figure it out.
[25:20]So thank you.
[25:21]No, that's so nice of you to hear.
[25:23]It's so nice to hear that.
[25:24]Thank you so much for saying that.
[25:26]It's just been such a pleasure working with you too.
[25:29]And I love your ideas and creativity.
[25:31]I mean, I can't do that.
[25:32]It's, you are the author.
[25:34]You can come up with that.
[25:36]And I can help you figure out how to publish it.
[25:38]You know, that's my job.
[25:40]I got to stand out of the way sometimes too.
[25:41]So thank you for having me on.
[25:44]And I feel like I need a glass of champagne or something.
[25:46]I know.
[25:47]Cheers.
[25:48]All right.
[25:50]Well, thank you, Carmen.
[25:50]Thanks for everything.
[25:51]And here we go.
[25:52]Another wild ride.
[25:54]That was good.
[25:55]Okay.
[25:56]Bye.
[25:56]Bye.
[25:58]Thanks for listening to this episode of moms
[26:00]don't have time to read books.
[26:02]Don't forget to follow me on Instagram, at ZB Owens,
[26:05]and at moms don't have time to read books.
[26:07]Also sign up for my newsletter at zibbowens.com
[26:09]and sign up for my virtual book club
[26:11]and meet lots of authors on Zoom every other week.
[26:14]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan Beck,
[26:15]Texture Sound for the Sound Editing.
[26:17]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions
[26:19]for providing this fantastic intro and outro music.