BLANK's Pub Day! Zibby chats with Julie Chavez
[0:04]Welcome to Moms Don't Have Time to Be Books with Zippy.
[0:07]I'm the host, Zippy Owens.
[0:09]I am an author, my latest is blank, pub date march first and novel.
[0:13]I'm also a podcaster, obviously, a publisher, a bookstore owner, and so much more.
[0:18]If you love books, you're in the right place.
[0:21]In fact, we call it the Zippyverse, or really, the LA Times called it the Zippyverse,
[0:25]and we're going with it.
[0:27]Go to Zippy Owens.com to learn more and follow me on Instagram at Zippy Owens.
[0:33]So today is Friday March 1st, and blank is out in the world.
[0:40]I cannot believe it.
[0:42]I am recording this earlier in the week, and I have barely been sleeping.
[0:47]I'm like breaking out into rashes.
[0:48]I don't even know.
[0:49]I'm like freaking out, but I'm so excited.
[0:51]I've wanted to write a novel since my first little miniature book came out when I was nine
[0:55]that my grandparents made, and now finally I'm 47 and a half, and my novel is out.
[1:01]And wow, am I excited?
[1:03]Please, please, please go out today, and if you do nothing else, go to an independent bookstore,
[1:09]just like stop your car when you see one, pop your head in and say,
[1:13]hi, do you have blank by Zippy Owens?
[1:14]And if they don't and say, no, we don't, but we can order it, say yes, please order it,
[1:18]and then go pick it up.
[1:21]It matters so much, especially in the first few days of publication, when people buy
[1:26]books, and you can also buy it online, which of course is super easy.
[1:30]So please just go ahead and do that.
[1:31]But maybe you want a second copy, or maybe you want one for a friend,
[1:34]or maybe you want your book club to read it.
[1:36]I'm really being pushy here, but it all helps me so much.
[1:39]And it's my publication day, which is crazy.
[1:42]If you live in New York, by the way, I will be signing books today Friday, March 1st at
[1:47]The Strand on the Upper West Side, and they're going to then give some copies to the
[1:51]regular Strand downtown as well.
[1:53]I will be at Shakespeare and Co.
[1:55]I will be at Corner bookstore on the Upper East Side,
[1:59]and I'm going to head out to Brooklyn to the Montague Street branch of
[2:03]Bookster Magic as well.
[2:05]And of course, P&T knitwear come on Tuesday because I'll have a big event there,
[2:09]so there will be a million sign books there too, or you could go pick one up there.
[2:13]So those are the endees in New York City that I know have them, but they're going to be
[2:16]all over.
[2:17]I'm having a lot of events this week.
[2:19]And on last night was my event at Bedford Playhouse.
[2:23]Hope it went well.
[2:24]Tonight, I have an event at Girls Right Now in New York City, a non-profit with Ariana Huffington,
[2:31]and then on Sunday, I will be at Newtonville Books.
[2:35]And I will also be signing books all over Boston.
[2:37]So if you live in the Boston area, I will be signing Beacon Hill and hopefully in Marblehead,
[2:43]and all over.
[2:44]So go to your local stores there, and I'm making my way slowly across the whole country to
[2:48]sign books and meet all of you.
[2:51]Anyway, this episode is going to be with Julie Chavez, who has guest hosted this podcast many times.
[2:57]She is the author of Everyone But My Self, which is a Zibi books book.
[3:01]And in this episode, she interviews me about blank and about writing and what it takes to get
[3:08]a book out into the world.
[3:09]And we basically just had fun.
[3:10]And I hope you will too.
[3:11]Thank you so much for supporting blank.
[3:13]Thank you for listening and reading.
[3:15]And any DMs or social posts or anything, I'm just begging, begging, anything you do helps.
[3:21]I really, really appreciate it.
[3:23]Zibi Owens, welcome back to your own podcast.
[3:30]Thank you, Julie.
[3:31]I thank you so much.
[3:32]It's a pleasure to be here.
[3:33]Thanks for inviting me.
[3:35]I bet it is.
[3:36]I mean, you just transition right from interviewing to being interviewed.
[3:40]This just feels like so true to your life.
[3:43]Yeah, but of course, running late, you know, we just can't get everything right all the time.
[3:48]I'm trying to figure out if I could ever be a person who is on time consistently,
[3:53]but I just don't know that it's in the card for me.
[3:55]I'm pretty on time, but I don't know.
[3:57]Are you an on time person?
[3:59]I feel like you mostly are.
[4:00]Yes, I used to be early for everything.
[4:03]Early is my hat.
[4:04]I feel better when I'm early because then I am not so anxiety-ridden, but lately it's just been
[4:09]impossible.
[4:09]So I've been running later.
[4:11]You have a lot happening.
[4:12]What constitutes early for you?
[4:13]What would be an ideal time to arrive at something?
[4:16]Five minutes, 10 minutes?
[4:17]Yeah, five, 10 minutes.
[4:18]Okay.
[4:19]All right.
[4:19]See, I find these things interesting because some people are really early birds, and I can't
[4:23]live like that.
[4:24]Now, you're usually late or on time.
[4:26]Late.
[4:27]I'm on time, but I misjudge, you know, how long things are actually going to take.
[4:32]I'm on time, but anything will throw the timeline, and I don't know why I think that
[4:37]things are always going to go smoothly.
[4:38]That's just how I roll.
[4:40]Right?
[4:40]Because you're not to miss.
[4:41]That's a good thing.
[4:43]That is true.
[4:44]That's probably part of it.
[4:45]Well, I'm so happy we get to talk today about your novel because I feel like I was thinking
[4:50]about this last night.
[4:52]This marks such a special moment for you in my mind just watching your journey.
[4:58]Does it feel like that for you?
[5:00]It does.
[5:01]Yes.
[5:02]I'm actually like kind of beaming inside, and like, yeah, it's taken a long time to
[5:07]get here and to finally have a novel out, and I actually can't believe it.
[5:10]I was holding my miniature book, oh, it's right here.
[5:13]Actually, I was showing this to my kids yesterday, like my miniature book.
[5:16]And I was like, well, let's look at the date, you know, when was this published?
[5:20]And it was like 1985.
[5:22]And I'm like, who can even do the math to figure out how long because this is what I decided
[5:27]I wanted to write a novel.
[5:28]So anyway, it's been quite a while.
[5:30]We decided it was 39 years, but anyway, yes, I'm going to go with them enough.
[5:34]I depend on children for math constantly.
[5:36]I can't.
[5:37]No.
[5:38]I don't have time for that.
[5:40]I love that you have that record of your beginnings for this.
[5:45]Will you tell me?
[5:46]Because I'm curious.
[5:47]I was thinking about this.
[5:49]Bookends is such a wonderful memoir, and that represented obviously a big milestone for
[5:54]you.
[5:55]Why was it still important to write a novel?
[5:57]What felt different for you about writing a novel that kept you at?
[6:02]Perhaps all the times I failed at writing a novel.
[6:05]I mean, I've written several novels in the past and have kept at it and kept trying new
[6:12]things and just hadn't really figured it out or had to do it.
[6:16]Or I just couldn't.
[6:18]I just, I don't know.
[6:19]I get really hung up on these goals I said for myself.
[6:23]And I really wanted to do it.
[6:26]And I've also read eight million novels, right?
[6:30]It's hard to read so much and not say, well, could I do that?
[6:34]Or how would I do it?
[6:35]Or like, I feel like a kid being like, could I just like get in this conversation?
[6:40]Could you just let me in?
[6:41]Could you scooch over just a smidge?
[6:43]Yes.
[6:44]Like, did I do it in?
[6:45]So I feel like, finally, I like snagged a tiny little spot in this very, very crowded,
[6:50]you know, I don't know, concert hall of people also.
[6:54]That's really exciting.
[6:55]I'm so happy for you.
[6:57]And I think it makes a lot of sense.
[6:59]What do you think about, what is it about a novel?
[7:03]I mean, obviously, you're gold-driven, but what is it about the novel that feels meaningful
[7:08]or valuable in a different way than memoir and kind of our factual reporting that we
[7:13]do?
[7:16]That's a good question, Julie.
[7:18]As you, at least I'm not one.
[7:23]You know, I think it's just, you know, Pippa and the novel talks about sort of the history
[7:28]of how she looks at things a little bit like in art history, right?
[7:31]Like writing a blank novel is a commentary on everything that's come before it.
[7:34]And I feel that way a little bit in writing my own novel, right?
[7:38]You're entering in this fast-moving stream that's going.
[7:42]And you just like want to throw in like your own side fishing.
[7:48]I don't know what's up with all my analogy today, but there's something about joining this
[7:53]very powerful, you know, centuries-long tradition of writing fiction, which is very different
[8:00]than nonfiction.
[8:02]Also important.
[8:03]I'd love doing it.
[8:04]It's much easier for me to do it.
[8:05]That was a milestone.
[8:06]But something about just joining this collective imagination and this, it's an art form.
[8:13]And it's one that I've always so admired in other people, their ability to do it.
[8:19]And feeling like, well, I'm not naturally this way in realizing, well, maybe most people
[8:23]are not naturally novelists and you have to like learn how to do it.
[8:26]And I don't know.
[8:27]There's just something, you know, timeless about like contributing to the canon of fiction,
[8:35]even though, you know, this will be, you know, people read it in two days and tell us
[8:39]it just sounded like it's a magazine article.
[8:41]It's fine.
[8:42]And I'm fine with that.
[8:44]But I don't know.
[8:45]It just feels, I don't know.
[8:47]Somehow, like, I don't know, important in a way.
[8:53]That makes sense to me.
[8:55]I think there is something that was very generous of you because it barely made sense to
[8:59]me as it's coming out of my mouth.
[9:00]I don't know.
[9:01]I hadn't really thought about it before.
[9:02]Well, no, it is.
[9:03]And it was something I was noodling a little bit, but there is that idea of imagination
[9:10]and what it takes, what, I guess, what place it comes from inside you to create something.
[9:18]I made a comment to Mondo the other day who's asking about what I was working on.
[9:22]I was like, oh, just trying to create something that's never existed before.
[9:25]That's what I'm up to.
[9:27]I'm just willing it to come.
[9:29]I'm just creating people out of the air and, you know, having them talk.
[9:33]Yes.
[9:34]And trying to make the dialogue not too stilted and dumb.
[9:37]It's really quite a challenge.
[9:39]I can see it sounds like it was kind of that twin challenge, but I also understand how
[9:45]there is a privilege to have contributed to this amazing tradition and this thing that
[9:52]we believe is very worth people's time, but it's difficult to execute, which is to write
[9:57]a novel.
[9:58]I think I'm
[10:00]so happy for you that you've done it
[10:02]and that now you're there.
[10:04]You're in the theater, you got your line in the stream.
[10:09]So I think that's so exciting.
[10:11]But I really think the biggest thing
[10:13]is just how much I love fiction.
[10:15]But it's just how much I love it
[10:17]and how much I love ingesting it
[10:19]that I wanted to contribute to it.
[10:21]But it comes from my appreciation of other people's work
[10:25]that makes it feel so important to me and exciting.
[10:28]Yeah, no, I love that.
[10:30]That makes sense, I understand.
[10:31]Okay, let's talk a little bit about Pippa.
[10:33]I'm assuming, obviously, since many of the people
[10:36]who listen to this podcast, I'm assuming by the time
[10:39]there will be quite a few people who have already read it,
[10:41]which is so exciting and I'm loving seeing the response to it
[10:45]and just people enjoying it so much.
[10:48]I think it really is a joyful book.
[10:51]Tell me, just give me the quick what it's about
[10:54]so that for the people,
[10:55]for the five people listening that haven't read it,
[10:57]so that they'll run out and buy it.
[10:59]Maybe two copies.
[11:00]Yes, so 10.
[11:01]10.
[11:02]10.
[11:03]Good, I need the 10.
[11:05]I am sure there are a lot of people listening
[11:06]who haven't read it and that's okay.
[11:08]There's time.
[11:09]Blank is about a character named Pippa Jones,
[11:13]who is a former best-selling novelist.
[11:15]On deadline for her next book,
[11:17]it takes place at over six days in LA
[11:20]when she finds out that she has to get her book in
[11:22]or her advance will be taken back,
[11:25]even though she's already spent it converting her.
[11:27]pantry into an office and at the advice,
[11:31]no, at the joking advice of her son,
[11:36]who suggests that she handed in blank,
[11:38]she does and decides that she will hand this book in
[11:40]with no words and it will be a commentary
[11:43]on the publishing industry and it will be funny
[11:46]and then the book is really about the impact
[11:49]of this decision on everything in her life,
[11:52]from her friendships, to her marriage,
[11:54]her mothering to her career.
[11:57]How did Pippa arrive to you?
[12:00]Are you a person like now that you've written a fictional book?
[12:04]Did that just come to you or was it something
[12:06]you kind of conjured?
[12:07]Did you do a complicated ritual with lots of burning
[12:10]and maybe some dancing?
[12:12]Oh yeah, that's totally me.
[12:13]I like to burn and dance.
[12:16]In fact, I'm packing my bag now for Burning Man
[12:19]because that also is totally on brand for me.
[12:23]No, Burning Man is my living nightmare
[12:26]and I know all the people who love Burning Man
[12:28]are gonna be like, actually you're missing out
[12:29]and I am okay with that.
[12:31]I can't, I can't.
[12:32]No, I'm like, explain this to me again.
[12:35]No, okay, great.
[12:37]I remember hearing about it when I moved to LA after college
[12:39]and I was like, all the people I worked with
[12:41]were all leaving for Burning Man.
[12:42]I was like, okay, no, I'm gonna go to my tennis clinic
[12:46]and read, anyway.
[12:48]Yes, no, I did not conjure up Pippa.
[12:51]My son suggested the idea of a blank book
[12:55]when I was trying to come up with an idea for my next book
[12:58]although my husband Kyle thinks it was his idea too.
[13:01]So I'll just let the two of them duke it out
[13:03]but my son really thinks it was him
[13:05]and I kind of remember it being him too
[13:07]but don't tell Kyle.
[13:08]We won't.
[13:09]And I was like, oh my gosh, what a great idea for a book.
[13:12]Like that is something that I wanna explore.
[13:14]What would that be?
[13:16]And so that is what gets me exciting
[13:17]when there's a situation that I'm like, oh my gosh.
[13:21]Think about all the ways this could go
[13:23]and what could happen and what if
[13:26]and that's how I started it.
[13:28]And then Pippa just came pretty easily.
[13:31]She's not me but definitely have some similarities
[13:34]and the voice came like really easily.
[13:37]Now I'm writing another novel and I'm like,
[13:39]how am I gonna make this character's voice not Pippa?
[13:42]I'm like, interesting.
[13:45]Oh, cuz I really like begs my editor.
[13:46]I was like, can I just try another book about Pippa?
[13:48]But no.
[13:49]So I'm like, I'm not sure I know how to write another voice.
[13:53]So we'll see how I pull it off.
[13:54]But Pippa came just so easily and I decided early on
[13:59]that if I was gonna take the time I didn't have to write
[14:02]a novel that nobody was asking or waiting for,
[14:05]that it had to be fun.
[14:07]Cuz otherwise I was like, why am I doing this?
[14:10]Like if I'm not having fun, it's not worthwhile.
[14:13]So I tried to infuse it with that sense of playfulness
[14:17]and fun.
[14:18]So then it just took off.
[14:20]I love hearing about how people kind of arrive at the story.
[14:24]Now, and then when you were writing,
[14:27]which by the way you did very quickly as you do many things,
[14:30]I think you are a fast moveer.
[14:31]I feel like most people know that about you,
[14:33]which is one of your gifts.
[14:35]I mean, you have an ability to just get after something
[14:38]which is so amazing.
[14:40]When you were doing it though, did you have to stop
[14:43]and step back in terms of like craft and plot?
[14:47]Were you thinking about a structure
[14:49]or do you just write and figure all that out later?
[14:53]No, I had a structure and a plot.
[14:56]I was lucky in that I sold this idea
[14:59]to my editor Carmen Johnson,
[15:01]a little I published book in.
[15:03]So I had to write out a whole outline
[15:06]and proposal to even sell it.
[15:08]So that was an requirement.
[15:10]So I had that to go on.
[15:12]And I knew where it was going.
[15:13]The problem that I ran into is that I wrote
[15:16]the first 30,000 words and thought I was done
[15:19]because I had gotten to the end by outline.
[15:21]And I had basically finished and I was like,
[15:23]okay, Carmen, I finished.
[15:25]And she's like, what are you talking about?
[15:28]Like, it's so, you know,
[15:30]and I, this is like half a book.
[15:33]It has to be longer than this.
[15:34]But that ended up being a good thing.
[15:36]I feel like it was putting down the first layer,
[15:39]like laying the foundation.
[15:40]And then I could go back and add all sorts of stuff,
[15:43]which, and then I did that a couple of times
[15:46]until I got long enough.
[15:48]And I was like here, it's 60,001 words.
[15:51]Take it, just take it.
[15:53]So I kept adding more and making it like more complex
[15:57]and more layers and I'm reminding myself
[15:59]this time around like just get to the end
[16:02]of the first big chunk.
[16:04]And then you go back and like decorate
[16:06]and put on like the window treatments or whatever else.
[16:08]Ooh, that's an interesting approach.
[16:10]and I don't think I've ever thought about it that way.
[16:13]Yeah.
[16:14]As I slog through currently.
[16:17]I think the same thing where I look at it
[16:19]and I'm like, well, I know the ending.
[16:20]So I mean, do we just wanna wrap this up
[16:23]and make it like a super short book?
[16:25]Yeah.
[16:26]I mean, I'm not, I'm not advocating this for this
[16:29]because it might not be efficient.
[16:31]But I don't know.
[16:32]I'll see how many words I can eat out of my originally.
[16:35]I do this.
[16:36]I don't know.
[16:37]This is definitely how it went last time.
[16:39]And I almost gave up on this book.
[16:40]I didn't actually do it that,
[16:42]I mean, I did it quickly in that the time I allotted for it
[16:45]all together was not that much,
[16:47]but I spread it out of a lot of time over a lot of time.
[16:50]So I started it when I got this sort of book deal
[16:54]in the summer of 2022.
[16:56]And I remember this one day when I really had to get going
[17:00]on it, this friend of mine, Taylor,
[17:02]who used to own a bookstore and the Hamptons
[17:04]became a manager of a hotel and snuck me into a room
[17:08]between checkout and check in time
[17:11]when my kids were at camp.
[17:12]So I was like, I have to use this time.
[17:15]These like eight hours or whatever at the time,
[17:17]when it was six hours to get a huge chunk of this underway.
[17:21]So I wrote then, I wrote a bit that summer.
[17:24]I remember writing at the ocean house too.
[17:26]And then I decided I was like,
[17:28]I don't know time to do this anymore.
[17:29]And maybe I shouldn't do this.
[17:31]And between summer and Thanksgiving,
[17:33]I got in touch with my agent and I was just like,
[17:35]honestly, I don't know how I'm gonna get this done.
[17:37]I was launching the publishing company with your book.
[17:40]I've heard of that.
[17:41]Everyone but myself, other two leech of it.
[17:44]And I spend a lot of time on that.
[17:47]And that is something you can't rush,
[17:48]which is frustrating.
[17:50]I think this is the major frustration running a business.
[17:52]It's like, I can do things on my own quickly.
[17:55]Anyway, this is why I have trouble delegating.
[17:56]But anyway, that makes sense.
[17:58]I'm just gonna give it up.
[17:59]And my agent's like, let's talk about it.
[18:02]Are you sure?
[18:03]I know you really wanted to do this.
[18:05]And then over Thanksgiving with my family,
[18:07]I was telling them how I think I'm gonna give up on this book.
[18:10]And they asked me what it was about.
[18:11]And I started describing the thing
[18:13]and all the things that I had coming up.
[18:14]And I was like, actually this sounds kind of good.
[18:17]And then I decided to finish it.
[18:19]That's really interesting.
[18:21]I feel like that's the true mark of so many things though,
[18:24]is that how many times along the way
[18:26]are you considering quitting?
[18:28]Yes, it is.
[18:29]And I feel like so many writers will tell us that.
[18:32]But I think that's an interesting thing.
[18:33]I've interviewed so many authors.
[18:36]Do you feel like you're able to metabolize those stories
[18:39]and that advice for yourself?
[18:41]Or does it feel as difficult for you?
[18:44]I don't like, do you feel like there's an alchemy there
[18:46]that's helped you?
[18:48]It does help.
[18:49]But when I was thinking about quitting,
[18:51]I felt like I was really thinking about quitting.
[18:54]Not like, today I feel like not doing this anymore.
[18:58]Like I was like really evaluating whether or not
[19:01]I had the bandwidth to do it and should I do it.
[19:03]And then of course later, no, I'm sitting here being like,
[19:05]I thought about quitting, but I mean,
[19:07]I really thought about it.
[19:08]And it's like, yeah, when my books are rejected in the past,
[19:12]like I would hear authors say that this happened to them.
[19:15]And I'm like, yeah, right.
[19:16]But now you're on my podcast.
[19:17]Like obviously it all worked out.
[19:19]Like I don't think it's actually going to work out for me.
[19:23]And I keep getting data to support this.
[19:25]Like what if it just isn't going to happen for me?
[19:29]And how do I come to terms with that and put this dream aside?
[19:35]And yes, it kept me going.
[19:36]But I was also like, well, it worked out for them.
[19:39]But that doesn't mean it's going to work out for me.
[19:41]It doesn't work out for everyone.
[19:43]And I'm going to be one of those people
[19:44]that doesn't work out for, which is fine.
[19:46]I have this great podcast.
[19:46]I do all these other things in my life.
[19:48]Like I should be happy.
[19:50]But this is really what I want.
[19:51]So it's such a struggle too, because I was talking
[19:55]to another writer about this, that we
[19:57]have to smooth out the story a little bit when.
[20:00]were sharing about how you got from here to there. And just like you said, you know, you say,
[20:04]I was thinking about quitting and we kind of have a picture of that, but then to go in a little
[20:09]deeper and explain, no, I actually wasn't that point where I thought this isn't going to work for
[20:13]me. And that those emotions are so powerful, but it's so easy for us to kind of skip over them.
[20:21]And then when someone else is in that situation, they're only thinking of someone else's
[20:25]smooth over story. So that is such, that makes complete sense where you know it cognitively,
[20:33]but can you, yes, can we feel it when we need to? I mean, that's the uncertainty in life, right?
[20:38]It's like when you're at all your friends wedding, this and you're like, well, I don't know,
[20:41]maybe I'm not going to fall in love, like not everybody falls in love, like not everybody gets married.
[20:46]You know, it might, I might be the person that doesn't have for I might be one of the eight million
[20:50]people who it doesn't pan out for their books. You know, I mean, it's you just don't know.
[20:55]Now, there is a tenderness to it, I think too, because it is a creative act and because
[21:02]you're not, you're not doing it for the fame and fortune. I've discovered, although I do feel very
[21:08]famous these days, the elementary schoolers think that I am. So that's what matters.
[21:13]Well, it enables you to launch your, you know, tiny news networks. There you go.
[21:16]Oh, totally. That will be my claim to fame for sure. Yes.
[21:20]Yeah. I would love to hear. What are three words that describe you? What are three words you
[21:25]would use to describe yourself? Well, I just finished this big branding exercise or my brand,
[21:31]and I feel like my brand is sort of aligned with me. Okay. I think one word is warm.
[21:36]I would say warm. Is that the same as, as nice or kind? Because I don't know. I don't think so.
[21:41]Continue. I don't know. I'm debating between motivated and determined somewhere in there,
[21:49]because that's part of me as well. And I'm debating saying something about like, I don't know.
[21:56]It's a hard question. Some combination of like hunger for knowledge, but not in an academic way.
[22:04]You know, like I'm, I'd love to learn. How about that? I don't know. Yeah. I think you're curious.
[22:09]Curious. That's it. Thank you. Yeah. You are a curious person too. I would agree with that.
[22:13]Ooh, I like those. And you are all of those things. So do you find that challenging right now
[22:18]that whole alignment of your person and your brand? Well, we're working on it.
[22:26]Well, literally, I've been working where we might be doing this new logo and all of this. And
[22:32]and then all of a sudden, I was like, this is ridiculous. Like, I actually worked in brand development.
[22:36]Like, I did this. I'm good at this. Like, why am I like, I should do what I used to do. I
[22:42]should do a competitive analysis. Then I should do the brand adjectives and did it and I should
[22:47]find the imagery. So I just put together this whole presentation. And of course, Ann was like,
[22:52]when did you do this? And I was like, no, it's fine. I did it waiting for my dentist this morning.
[22:56]And then, you know, for the hour at the beginning of the work day.
[23:00]Oh, my gosh. Yeah. I would ask that too. When do you do this? I feel like this is
[23:06]so Elle Evans recently told me that her writing style is chaos gremlin.
[23:11]Because she types on her phone between patients. She's doctor. Just for people who don't know,
[23:17]you'll be hearing about her book soon wedding issues coming out in April. Thank you for the
[23:20]Yes. But she said that and I thought, what? And I feel like you have that same ability, right?
[23:26]Like, I need everyone to stop talking to me and have at least a modicum of silence to get things done.
[23:32]But you just hammer it out. I can do, I could do a lot of things between, you know, theoretical
[23:37]patients meetings, whatever, but I could not write fiction in between in those spaces.
[23:41]I don't know. Honestly, I said that's great. And I thought you might be a little crazy.
[23:46]But we'll, I'll tell her in person next time I do. Uber talented. I am not that talented.
[23:50]I didn't know. Well, and some people I think can do that kind of code switching like that
[23:55]where they can just put their mind in that mode, which is incredible. Okay, I know you mentioned
[24:00]you said that writing the memoir was a little bit easier. So we'll skip over that question
[24:05]because do you like one better? I don't like one better, but they're just so different.
[24:11]Okay, but I will say this is much more fun. The novel is much more fun. I think it's, it's
[24:17]lighter. And I mean, I know there are dark parts of this book as well, but yeah, no, you did a good
[24:22]job making it fun. It's a, it's a great read. It's a quick read. And I feel like people will say that
[24:29]and that's not to its detriment because there's so many books out there that you slog through.
[24:34]And it's just like I can't live like this, right? Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's entertainment designed
[24:40]to be consumed. You know, this is not just to be precious and poured over. And that's fine. That's
[24:45]what I meant to do. So it's, it's all good. You did a good job. Okay. One final question that someone
[24:49]asked me that I'm stealing from Kelly Vic on literary podcasts because it literary shoot prospects.
[24:55]That's what it is. Sorry. I want to make sure I got that in. Okay. I like, I like literary shoot.
[24:59]Oh, what are you? That's what we'll name our next product. Put that on your branding.
[25:07]Yes, I will. It'll go on. There is a spot for podcasting. Okay. So she asked me if so blank as a
[25:16]movie, not the characters and who's going to play who, but tell me what the theme song would be
[25:22]for the movie. Oh, that's a good question. The theme song for the movie of blank. I don't know,
[25:28]something with Taylor Swift because that feels right. Yes. I mean, really, we queued that right.
[25:34]I think karma. Oh, I think you're right. I think that works perfectly. I'll take that.
[25:41]Well, Zippy, it has been a pleasure hosting on you on your podcast today.
[25:46]Thank you. But also, I just want to take this opportunity to tell you that I know your listeners
[25:52]are, they love you for a reason and they're loving this book. And I think it's such a, it is,
[26:00]I'm so happy for you that you've achieved this goal and that you're part of this club of novelists
[26:07]and just all the luck to blank and congratulations. Thank you, Julie. You're welcome. Thank you for
[26:13]the interview. My pleasure, friend. Thanks for listening to this episode of moms don't have time to read
[26:21]books. Don't forget to follow me on Instagram at Zippy Owens and at moms don't have time to read
[26:27]books. Also sign up for my newsletter at zippyowens.com and sign up for my virtual book club and
[26:32]meet lots of authors on zoom every other week. Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at Texture Sound
[26:37]for the Sound Editing. And thank you to Morning Moon Productions for providing this fantastic
[26:41]intro and out trim music.