Chelsey Goodan, UNDERESTIMATED: The Wisdom and Power of Teenage Girls
[0:02]Hi, I'm Zippy Owens, and you're listening to moms don't have time to read books.
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[1:03]Chelsea Goodan is the author of Underestimated, The Wisdom and Power of Teenage Girls.
[1:07]Chelsea has been an academic tutor and mentor for 16 years, with a particular emphasis
[1:11]on the empowerment of teenage girls.
[1:13]I have one of these, and so this is particularly relevant.
[1:16]She regularly speaks to audiences about gender justice, conducts workshops, and coaches parents,
[1:21]and had a better understanding connect with their daughters.
[1:23]She is the founder of the activist cartel and the membership director of Democracy, a nonprofit
[1:28]that guides teenage girls from historically underrepresented communities into leadership
[1:32]positions.
[1:33]As an activist, she advises public figures galvanizes volunteers and organizes large-scale
[1:38]events for national nonprofits while also serving on the board of a call to men, a nonprofit
[1:43]working to end gender-based violence.
[1:45]Her passion to explore humanity's potential for authenticity, liberation, and empowerment
[1:50]permeates all of her work, a graduate of NYU's Tisch School of the Arts, Chelsea lives
[1:54]in Los Angeles.
[1:56]Welcome, Chelsea.
[1:57]Thank you so much for coming.
[1:58]And moms, don't have time to read books to discuss underestimated the wisdom and power
[2:02]of teenage girls.
[2:03]Congrats.
[2:04]Thanks.
[2:05]And I'm so happy that Pamela Cannon gave this copy to me herself.
[2:09]I knew her, and she was like, this is my first thing at galleries, so I was really excited.
[2:13]Oh, I love that.
[2:15]She's the best at it, or oh my goodness.
[2:18]Okay, so first, talk about what makes you the right person to write this book, because
[2:23]you explain that in the book.
[2:25]Just so that everybody knows, you know, why are you, why have you had such great access
[2:30]to this audience and have been able to glean so much and then write a book about it?
[2:34]Right.
[2:35]So I have been an academic tutor for 16 years to teenage girls, and then years ago, I also
[2:40]started volunteering my time to mentor girls from underrepresented communities.
[2:45]And what happened is that I got in a very, I was invited into a very rare space of
[2:50]trust, of one on one time with girls, where it wasn't a parental vibe.
[2:54]It was much, it was this completely unique kind of relationship where they really opened
[2:58]up and shared all these things on their minds.
[3:01]And I realized how much I understood their voice and how I could be a microphone for them,
[3:06]almost like a portal for what they want to say to the world.
[3:09]And they felt like I was given a lot of trust to be that person to say those things.
[3:13]And so as you know, in the book, they, I quote them so much, they were involved in every
[3:17]part of it.
[3:18]They chose the chapter titles, they, when they gave notes on edits, you know, I wanted
[3:23]to make sure I was always honoring their voice and their truth throughout the entire process.
[3:27]Oh my gosh, I love it.
[3:29]Well, you go through all sorts of different topics.
[3:32]You give handy, dandy little bullet points at the end that we're supposed to take away from
[3:37]each chapter, which is always, I know I thought it would be perfect for your podcast in
[3:39]particular than that.
[3:40]I have time to read those from like those bullet points are ready for you.
[3:44]Well, it's funny because my teenage daughter is home from school this week.
[3:48]And so I was like, here, take this book.
[3:50]Tell me what you think.
[3:51]Did I underestimate you?
[3:53]And then at the end, we played the whole game because you have all these wonderful questions.
[3:56]So we were sitting together in the car and I was like, continue to get through it.
[3:59]And I was like, okay, so I was like, which ones did I get around like, do you feel
[4:05]like I listened to you enough?
[4:06]She was like, yes.
[4:07]I'm like, you know, social media accounts inspired you lately and she just like rolls
[4:14]her eyes.
[4:16]You can't like not to go harm fast into these questions.
[4:19]I know.
[4:20]I know that's not how you're supposed to.
[4:21]I know these are like things you should keep in mind if you have like, if you want to have
[4:24]better communication with the teenage girl in your life, I know I'm just like, but I just
[4:28]like when I didn't do all of them that I did like a rapid fire quiz and she's like,
[4:31]mom, I'm good.
[4:32]It's all good.
[4:33]What I've learned though is when a mom and daughter reads it together, this has been
[4:37]happening a lot.
[4:39]They end up because just the way the nature of a lot of the chapters, things like shame or
[4:42]sexuality, things that are harder to open up conversations around.
[4:46]I have seen a lot of cool communication happens between a mom and a daughter, but those
[4:50]questions at the end in the appendix are like a dynamic change, right?
[4:55]It's not like go and question her.
[4:57]I know.
[4:58]I know.
[4:59]I was just like sort of like actually I'm glad you brought up this sexuality chapter because
[5:03]I found that one particularly interesting.
[5:05]And even when you were talking about your author photo, right, and with how much skin is
[5:11]okay to show on your author photo and how there was a girl that you that had posted something
[5:16]provocative or that was very revealing and she was sort of like, I want to explore the side
[5:20]of myself.
[5:21]Like what's the problem with that?
[5:22]You know, and like her mama was not happy about it and you're like, what is the problem
[5:27]with that?
[5:28]Let's talk about this.
[5:29]Yeah.
[5:30]So instead of approaching her, yeah, instead of approaching her, just shutting it down and
[5:32]fear, fear, fear, you know, there's that natural understandable inclination to protect
[5:37]a girl, right?
[5:38]But what I've learned is that just she absorbs it as shame and judgment and when you actually
[5:45]just seek to understand and actually ask like, well, why do you want to post that?
[5:49]Why do you want to wear that and really get where she's coming from and help her feel
[5:53]heard and understood about it truly genuine nonjudgmental tone or your trigger, your own
[5:58]personal triggers or deactivated, then that's where so much, so much healthy conversation
[6:03]happens in terms of her, yes, needing space to explore her sexuality and the expression
[6:09]of that, which can be very uncomfortable thought for people, but instead what we're doing
[6:13]is shutting it all down, repressing all of it, shame, shame, shame, judgment, judgment
[6:16]and meanwhile, you know, boys within the media and stuff are very much permission to pursue
[6:21]a much more, you know, expansive, pleasurable type of frame on the conversation, whereas
[6:26]girls are told that they are blamed for everything, that they're responsible for all
[6:31]boys and clinicians.
[6:32]It's on their shoulders, they manage that, like they have a lot coming at them that's
[6:36]just unfair.
[6:37]So true, so true.
[6:40]When you were writing this, which chapters were you like this, this is a hundred percent,
[6:46]this is the most important that I have to put this in, this is the chapter on which
[6:49]one.
[6:50]Oh my gosh.
[6:51]Well, I feel like this answer might change on day to day, what's your answer today?
[6:57]Yeah.
[6:58]My answer today is probably radical honesty because I think none of this happens unless
[7:04]you have a framework of being really real and honest because teenage girls are so good
[7:10]at deciphering the truth.
[7:11]They can, they can cut through it so fast and they can tell even if you're just kind of
[7:16]putting on a show, you know, it doesn't have to be blatant lies, it can be these kind
[7:19]of half truths and omissions and trying to put on a show of everything being fine and
[7:22]girls just are starving for like real connection and so I just call things out all the
[7:27]time with girls and they, they trust it builds a certain level of trust where then they
[7:32]feel like they can be truthful because there's a non-judgmental space to speak the truth
[7:37]all the time.
[7:38]And then I take, you know, the second half of that chapter is how it's a tool for teenage
[7:42]girls speaking truth to power.
[7:44]I think is one of their biggest weapons.
[7:46]I mean, if you look at moella, you stuff sigh, right, all she did was just speak truth
[7:50]power to the militant organization and they, they shot her for it and because, and she
[7:54]was a teenage girl, right?
[7:56]And I find this is actually quite common, not unlike that large of a scale, but girls like
[8:02]these days, Gen Z in particular, like to, you know, push back and speak truth to power
[8:07]and say what their needs and wants are in an exciting new way and the more we can empower
[8:11]and support and celebrate that I think there could be a real spark for change.
[8:16]It's so true.
[8:17]And you were talking about, you know, holding space for radical honesty.
[8:20]You also apply that to, you know, holding space for just emotions and sadness and it's
[8:25]okay.
[8:26]And you referenced and I'm sorry.
[8:27]You said you had lost a friend and I wanted to ask you about that.
[8:30]And how, one time, you just like, we're having a breakdown, but your friends just let
[8:34]you have the moment to be sad and it was enough for you to then, you know, pick up and
[8:39]like go on with the day and how often as parents or caregivers or whatever, we're just trying
[8:44]to like make it better for our girls as opposed to just letting them feel it.
[8:49]So tell me about that.
[8:50]Yeah.
[8:51]And this is so, so common because of course it's really hard to see your daughter in pain
[8:55]and so the inclination is to come in and advise and fix or, you know, slap positivity
[9:01]on it.
[9:02]And what I found is then she just feels really misunderstood and just the walls go up and
[9:07]that holding space for just being listening and being like, yeah, that sucks.
[9:10]Yeah.
[9:11]That is hard.
[9:12]I feel that way.
[9:13]And it's specifically like displeasing feelings, right, anger or frustration or disappointment
[9:18]and girls aren't given a lot of space for that.
[9:22]And it carries into a womanhood, I think, you know, women aren't supposed to be angry, right?
[9:26]We're going to be stereotyped in some direction and, and by letting women and girls have
[9:31]a little more space for feelings, we can actually process them rather than stuffing down or
[9:37]pressing.
[9:38]I mean, that stuff comes out later in life, no matter what, right?
[9:41]And what do we have to process them in the moment instead and under help girls understand
[9:45]that these are normal human emotions and that that's not something bad about her or something
[9:52]wrong with her.
[9:53]Very true.
[9:54]I think most moms and parents or whatever, grandparents would say, would want to know.
[10:00]So, you know, well, how do I get along with my teenage girl in my life, right?
[10:06]Like my teenage daughter, my teenage granddaughter, like, what is, is there a secret?
[10:09]Like either I feel her pulling away or I'm worried about her for the XYZ or I don't
[10:17]know if the litany of things people could say.
[10:19]But like, what is, what do we not know that you know that can help our collective relationships
[10:25]with teenage girls?
[10:28]Well, I wrote a whole book about it, but every single chapter dies into a different
[10:33]topic.
[10:34]I mean, gosh, if you're looking for like a real overall idea is I can, I'm actually going
[10:40]to bring it back to girls feel judged and shamed and I think that so often our motivation
[10:47]to teach a girl, like trying to teach her what's best or that protection comes off as
[10:51]she feels it as criticism and judgment and rather than just meeting her where she's
[10:58]at and loving her exactly the way she is because then there's also this other huge pressure
[11:01]for her to be perfect and likable, you know, girls don't have the same bandwidth as
[11:06]boys do.
[11:07]Just make mistakes and, you know, girls absorb a mistake is completely part of their
[11:10]identity.
[11:11]Whereas a boy, I see boys make mistakes like whatever, you know, tell their boys.
[11:15]And so this space and room to, to explore, make mistakes, to explore her their identity
[11:21]and who they are and not having to kind of have it all figured out and be perfect and
[11:24]do all the right things.
[11:25]You know, there's so many shoulds, I mean, at them, what they should look like, how they
[11:29]should act and, and again, that feels like judgment that who they are is not good and
[11:34]right the way they are.
[11:35]Do you feel like things have changed that much?
[11:39]Like I was reading this book and I'm like, I was a teenage girl, you know, it feels like
[11:43]yesterday, like certainly not a long time ago, you know, our girls today coming from a totally
[11:50]different place.
[11:51]Like, is it true when girls, when teenagers say like, mom, you just understand whatever
[11:54]nothing.
[11:55]My kids would ever say that to me, but let's just pretend, you know, is that true?
[11:58]Are things significantly different?
[12:00]Obviously there's social media and like the world is different, but deep down like, is
[12:04]it just sort of what we went through in a, in a different set of circumstances, you know,
[12:09]trying to know.
[12:10]Yeah.
[12:11]Because I think that we have a lot to learn about our own humanity from teenage girls.
[12:14]A lot of the book is their wise thoughts on humanity and how we can all be more human and
[12:20]connect more deeply.
[12:21]And so I would say Gen Z is very exciting to me in how they are way more into conversations
[12:27]around mental health and psychology and wanting to make a difference in the world.
[12:31]Like there's some really cool shifts that have happened with Gen Z that I love.
[12:36]But in terms of just the pressures on girls and women to, you know, that people pleasing
[12:41]pressure and self-doubt and the inner critic, like all of those habits are solid and
[12:46]you know, my last chapter is power and just the power structures around us are still
[12:50]so masculine in their domination and oppression and status and wealth in these kind of
[12:54]old stories that I see Gen Z girls are just so tired of and ready for a, a new type of
[13:01]world that they envision.
[13:03]So it's, it's, it's both and right, it's both very new and the same old story.
[13:08]If you had a teenage girl, like, do you have a, I don't know, which is actually kind
[13:12]of how, you know, reason why I've been invited into these spaces.
[13:15]It's been an asset.
[13:16]All right.
[13:17]Yeah.
[13:18]I'd love to win at some point something was happening in mom was like, okay, Chelsea's
[13:20]going to handle this.
[13:21]We're not taking him out of time as a parent, but like, she'll be able to handle this.
[13:26]Yeah.
[13:27]I know.
[13:28]I'm like, I'm going to start calling it.
[13:29]No.
[13:30]How would your parenting now that you know all of this stuff, you know, what would you do?
[13:35]Like, what, what are you going to go into it?
[13:37]Like, knowing how often can we say I'm listening and I'm this
[13:42]like, I don't know.
[13:43]I mean, there's no good at quick answer to this, but so you know what?
[13:47]It's also just allowing space for it not to not have it all figured out.
[13:52]You know, actually was just talking to somebody the other day where a parent was like,
[13:54]well, what did she say?
[13:55]I don't know.
[13:56]And I was kind of like, couldn't just be like, okay, you know, just okay, we'll sit
[14:00]with not knowing right now.
[14:02]And you know, I actually, I trust that you're going to figure something out and, and
[14:06]helping her have that space to check in with herself and develop self trust herself rather
[14:13]than us having to have every solution, right?
[14:16]So that I don't know is okay too.
[14:18]And actually, girls feel a lot of relief when we embrace that space.
[14:23]And how did you like writing the book?
[14:24]I mean, I loved it.
[14:25]Well, I didn't, you know, in such partnership.
[14:27]Was there any time I came across something, I was like, wait, what is this exactly?
[14:30]I would always like call up a girl and be like, well, what are your thoughts on this?
[14:33]You know, so it was really fun to do it in that way.
[14:36]And it really poured out of me.
[14:37]It was really meant to be like this whole process.
[14:41]I mean, it's been a wild ride just this week, Oprah's book club just recommended the
[14:45]book.
[14:46]Like, hello, sunshine recommended it.
[14:48]It's been wild lately.
[14:50]Oh my gosh.
[14:51]And so how do you, how do you like take in that kind of praise and all of that?
[14:56]Like, do you, do you run around, you jump up and down or you just like head in your
[15:00]hands?
[15:01]Like, oh my gosh.
[15:02]Like, how do you feel about it?
[15:03]Yeah.
[15:04]I think myself celebrate it and receive it since I, you know, I talk about in the book
[15:10]too.
[15:11]There's like a false humility women are taught, right?
[15:12]Where they're like, oh, well, okay, we'll see.
[15:14]And only like downplay things and make ourselves small.
[15:17]And so I've actually been kind of stepping into my own voice and power, which is so ironic
[15:22]because that's what the book's about.
[15:24]And so, but it's just so sweet because the girls are so excited to see this happening
[15:29]to the book, right?
[15:30]Like they all feel like, wait, what I have to say is important.
[15:33]Wait.
[15:34]Yeah.
[15:35]People care about this topic.
[15:36]And these topics get care about what, you know, my wellbeing in the world.
[15:39]And so that, I'm making it, you know, that's what matters most to me without a doubt.
[15:43]You know, if they can feel more heard and more space to step into their power with this
[15:48]book, oh my gosh, so great.
[15:50]If I can help a conversation between a mother and daughter, oh my gosh, so great.
[15:53]So I'm really trying to like that type of accolades from those big, you know, big people.
[15:58]I think of like, oh my gosh, that means this is going to reach more people and hopefully
[16:02]you have even a bigger and better ripple effect in the world.
[16:05]What is your relationship with your mom?
[16:07]You know, it's, I thought I was going to get this question all the time and I have
[16:10]not.
[16:11]Yeah.
[16:12]Like my, so it's so funny, it's different now than it was when I was a teenager.
[16:18]And when I was in teenager, my mom really let me be really independent and very much
[16:22]empowered me to kind of be my own weird, quirky self.
[16:25]And that was a real asset.
[16:27]And you can read from the book to my dad is the same way he was really empowering.
[16:31]right benefited from that type of self trust they put in me.
[16:36]And I think that you can feel that in the book.
[16:38]That being said, I also think my mom, they both aren't, my mom in particular isn't very
[16:43]good at holding space for emotions.
[16:45]And so I very much had a lot of anxiety stuff in all my emotions and trying to be perfect
[16:50]in the world and make everything stable around me.
[16:52]And it wasn't until much later that I started understanding emotions.
[16:56]And even now, you know, it doesn't a lot of space for emotions.
[17:00]And that's okay.
[17:01]That's who she is.
[17:02]You know, but in any time that I say something, as they commentary about a mom's, moms
[17:07]in this book, I'd see it with, I say it was so much compassion because I feel like we're
[17:11]all victims of this same really difficult system that we're all navigating as women.
[17:17]And we're all doing the best we can.
[17:18]And I really mean, I believe that for both my parents and my mom, especially, well, she
[17:23]read the book.
[17:24]She has not.
[17:25]Oh my.
[17:27]I decided she wasn't going to read it until it was out.
[17:33]She had a real true heart cover.
[17:34]I know.
[17:35]And so but no one's asked me that question.
[17:36]I even had so funny.
[17:37]Yeah.
[17:38]I had my lonely family representative who read it is well, my husband and my sister
[17:42]and a lot of the only family that read it.
[17:44]Oh my gosh.
[17:45]Well.
[17:46]Oh, that's amazing.
[17:49]I mean, I don't know, I guess I just don't, it doesn't bother me prying into somebody's
[17:54]personal family life.
[17:55]No, it's great.
[17:56]It might have won matters because well, so so much of the book is also about healing your
[18:01]own inner teenage girl.
[18:02]Yeah.
[18:03]Because that's actually what's in our control as much as we wish we could control our
[18:08]the kid, right?
[18:09]And even like with our worry, I talked about worrying being a perceived control if I just
[18:12]worry about this.
[18:13]I'll think of everything.
[18:14]And then she'll do this.
[18:15]The end of the day, we can only control ourselves and our choices and our reactions.
[18:20]And so that's, I don't mind getting personal because actually my own healing is very much
[18:26]informed the book.
[18:27]Wow.
[18:28]So this is really just a therapeutic exercise for you.
[18:30]You can just come clean and tell everybody that.
[18:33]Yeah.
[18:34]Yeah.
[18:35]Okay.
[18:36]Well, I'm a pretty really radical honesty, right?
[18:38]No, I know.
[18:39]I'm so kidding.
[18:40]I'm just kidding.
[18:42]So what's next for underestimated is it's going to become like a lifestyle brand?
[18:46]Like where are you going with this?
[18:47]Oh my gosh.
[18:48]I feel like there's like lots of things I can't even talk about.
[18:51]Okay.
[18:52]I don't know.
[18:53]I don't know.
[18:54]I'm also just on the ride, like things are unfolding in really unexpected ways.
[19:00]And I'm not trying to control it to tell you the truth.
[19:02]I'm trying to really listen to my own authentic values and be like, okay, that feels good.
[19:08]That feels right.
[19:09]Like what, what serves the greatest good?
[19:10]I'm really trying to stay true to that.
[19:13]Cause there are, because I could be pulled in eight million directions right now.
[19:18]That is for sure.
[19:19]I just got emailed by somebody who was like, would you be interested in coming in a reality
[19:23]show?
[19:24]Or are you like staying in a house with someone for two weeks?
[19:27]I was like, oh my gosh.
[19:29]And my kids are like, do it.
[19:30]I'm so bad.
[19:32]I know.
[19:33]But I'm like of all the things, like you start, you write a book and you just don't know
[19:36]what's going to happen.
[19:37]Exactly.
[19:38]Are you just put yourself out there?
[19:40]So I'm excited to hear when your, you know, news dribbles come out and.
[19:46]So he's supportive and I have an event at Zippy's book shop in LA.
[19:50]I love it.
[19:51]I'm going to do with Emily Deschanel.
[19:52]It's going to be so awesome.
[19:53]Amazing.
[19:54]Oh my gosh.
[19:55]I wish, I feel like we took that shot.
[19:56]You got a shot out on KTLA yesterday.
[19:58]I was on KTLA and they shot it.
[20:00]Oh, I'll try to get the thing and we can post about it or something.
[20:04]Thank you.
[20:05]And then you don't.
[20:06]Yeah.
[20:07]Well, I'm delighted you're doing that.
[20:08]And this is really going to help a lot of people.
[20:10]And I hope that the people who really should be reading this read this.
[20:15]Right.
[20:16]Like moms who maybe underestimate their kids and need the help.
[20:20]Yeah.
[20:21]Well, I will tell you the amount of people who hear the title.
[20:23]When I'm just at a random party or something and be like,
[20:26]this is damn teenage girls. No, they're so stupid.
[20:29]I mean, people don't think well of teenage girls.
[20:32]And I mean, I know people like you and my kind of feminist world are all like,
[20:36]of course.
[20:37]The general masses really love to be like their dramatic and
[20:42]crazy and emotional and just all these negative things.
[20:45]I mean, you try pumping tons of hormones into your body.
[20:49]You know, and see how you do public.
[20:52]It's crazy.
[20:53]That's a crazy time of life.
[20:55]So much is changing physically, emotionally, or emotionally.
[20:58]And yeah, it's emotional.
[21:00]So whatever.
[21:01]Just what it is.
[21:02]All right.
[21:03]What advice do you have for aspiring authors?
[21:05]I always say I was told to write my book before I put it into a proposal
[21:10]and pitch and everything because I needed to know what was even inside me.
[21:14]What story was actually even there?
[21:16]And I think about it.
[21:17]If I'd written the proposal first, I don't know if I would have matched what actually
[21:21]came out of me.
[21:22]It wasn't that I had to do every ounce of the entire book, but I needed to truly start writing
[21:26]and understand what story would come out of me very effortlessly versus trying to say a proposal
[21:31]and then make it mold and sculpt and try to fit that.
[21:35]So, right.
[21:36]Don't wait for the proposal.
[21:38]I guess.
[21:39]Yeah.
[21:40]Oh, and then I have just a little trick.
[21:41]I love this trick because people always are like, when you're writing notes,
[21:44]it takes so much discipline, which is really the art form is discipline.
[21:48]Always finish your day's work.
[21:49]At the end, you know, when you're decided or ending your work for the day on something
[21:53]you know exactly what the next thing you're going to write.
[21:55]Like, you know, you know, exactly what it is, but don't write it and leave it, leave
[22:00]there so that when you start the next day, it's just so easy to get right into it because
[22:04]you knew exactly what you wanted to write.
[22:05]So then you don't sit the next day being like, okay, where am I going next?
[22:08]Like that.
[22:09]I feel like sometimes writing makes me fall asleep and this is like a ridiculous thing to say.
[22:14]And so I'm like, I just have to stop right here.
[22:17]So I think I've been like doing that on, you know, not in an intentional and an unintended way.
[22:24]I was like, oh my gosh.
[22:25]That's when I decided to take a nap.
[22:26]I don't know.
[22:27]Nothing else makes me fall asleep except writing fiction.
[22:31]So you never know.
[22:33]Anyway, congratulations.
[22:34]So exciting.
[22:35]I'm sorry I'll miss your event at the store, but delighted you're coming and congrats.
[22:40]Yeah.
[22:41]Well, you, I think you're so amazing too.
[22:42]Thank you so much for everything you do to support authors and support books.
[22:46]You just are just incredible powerhouse in this space.
[22:49]Thank you.
[22:50]Thank you for saying that.
[22:51]Thank you.
[22:52]All right.
[22:53]We'll enjoy the ride.
[22:54]Thanks.
[22:55]Okay, bye.
[22:56]Bye.
[22:57]Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[23:01]Don't forget to follow me on Instagram at ZB Owens and at Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[23:06]Also sign up for my newsletter at ZB Owens.com and sign up for my virtual book club and meet lots of authors on Zoom every other week.
[23:13]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at Texture Sound for the Sound Editing.
[23:17]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions for providing this fantastic intro and outro music.