Paige Layle, BUT EVERYONE FEELS THIS WAY: How an Autism Diagnosis Saved My Life

[0:02]Hi, I'm Zippy Owens, and I am the host of this podcast, Mom's Don't Have Time to Read Books.

[0:08]I am also a newly minted USA Today best-selling author of the novel, Blake.

[0:14]I've created a whole community of book lovers around this podcast, a publishing company, reading retreats, a bookstore, and more.

[0:22]Learn more at ZippyMedia.com or follow me on social at Zippy Owens or join the community at Zippy Readers.

[0:31]Paige Lao is the author of, but everyone feels this way, how an autism diagnosis saved my life, diagnosed with autism spectrum disorder at the age of 15.

[0:39]Paige is an advocate and influencer for a better understanding of autism on social media.

[0:44]Paige began making videos in response to a degrading post about autistic people, initially creating a four-part series to address common misperceptions about autism.

[0:53]Now in her 20s, Paige is an autism acceptance activist on YouTube and TikTok.

[0:58]Paige also works part-time as a dance teacher and shares her home in Kowortha Lakes Canada with her dogs, Macy and Medusa and Kat Makato.

[1:06]She narrated the Audible Original American Girl by Wendy Walker, an instant number one Audible Bestseller, which, oh my gosh, I did not realize and forgot to even ask her about,

[1:15]but I adore Wendy Walker, who has been on this podcast many times, including for American Girl.

[1:21]Welcome Paige, thank you so much for coming on mom start have time to read books to discuss, but everyone feels this way.

[1:27]How an autism diagnosis saved my life.

[1:30]Thank you for having me. I'm so pumped. Thank you for giving it a read.

[1:35]I did. I read it. All of it. I loved it.

[1:38]I learned so much about so many things.

[1:43]But the way you wrote about autism actually is writing about understanding human beings at all.

[1:51]I mean, it's applicable to so much stuff.

[1:53]So, and just like the memoir parts of your life.

[1:56]And I thought it was really great, the mix of information and story and your mom.

[2:03]It feels like there could be a movie. I don't know. I thought it was perfect.

[2:07]Thank you so much. No, yeah, there's a lot going on in there for sure.

[2:11]So, why don't you tell listeners about the book?

[2:15]Yeah, sure. Well, I started writing the book, but everyone feels this way.

[2:19]I was, I think, 20 and 21 when I finished.

[2:22]And the only reason I pointed out is yesterday I was at a lunch and a girl said, you wrote a memoir, you're a kid.

[2:28]How did you write a memoir? You are over. You're still a child.

[2:31]And I'm like, that is fair. I have not done very much.

[2:34]The very little that I have done was weird and complicated.

[2:37]And I think that that's an abnormal part about most people's lives.

[2:41]Most people have a great, or as in the childhood is like the best part of their, of a lot of people's lives.

[2:47]The easiest part of their life, the happiest part of the life, the time when they don't have the most going on.

[2:52]And it was not the same for me.

[2:55]So, it's definitely, it's weird to look at, but I think that not only in that way, I mean, I am autistic.

[3:02]And that's quite different from a lot of people. But like you said, there's a lot about learning to be a person to that comes with your childhood.

[3:11]And that an autistic person needs to learn and goes through as well and seeing that whole lens in perspective.

[3:18]Yeah, I'm really excited to open up that conversation.

[3:21]Well, you talked a lot about how you learned how to mask. That was very weird.

[3:26]How you learned how to mask and how people would sometimes be surprised to learn about, why may you weren't diagnosed until later, later in life, but later in your teen years.

[3:36]But that you basically studied human behavior so much intellectually that you were able to sort of put on what you needed to do at certain times, regardless of how you felt inside.

[3:47]And that's how acting ended up feeling so natural to you.

[3:50]Right. So, yeah.

[3:52]So much work being done all the time that you didn't even notice. And I think that when you're a kid too, you think that everyone else is doing it.

[3:59]And it is just all this work that you're doing, but it's so strange.

[4:03]And I'm really excited to have this way to be able to finally conceptualize my feelings that I felt all this time.

[4:10]I think also because as a kid, you know, I've probably I've been saying stuff like this, I've been talking these words probably my whole life, but now that I'm an adult and I'm 23 now people actually will listen.

[4:23]And they're like, Oh, yeah, that makes sense. I'm like, I've been saying this forever, but no one takes kids seriously.

[4:29]And I'm honestly, I think it's a blessing and a curse to have the memory that I do.

[4:34]The blessing part about it is that I can take all those memories that I gathered all my life and put them forward to good use and do something good with them.

[4:44]And I like my childhood wasn't the worst, but I remember the things that I didn't love about it or the things that I know I would do differently and a lot of them.

[4:55]And that's something that is really beneficial as an adult now as a growing human seeing what I didn't get and what I need to do now to make sure that I do get that now.

[5:12]It's a it's a bridge between growing up undiagnosed autistic and growing up with trauma and really there.

[5:20]There are a lot of similarities.

[5:23]Yeah, I feel like your emotions were minimized for so long or like ignored or you had that one really devastating scene. I mean, it's your life memory where you were just crying and the living room and your dad I guess was having a long day.

[5:40]It was just like, you know, can you turn it down a little bit or could you just and you're like, but I'm in here crying. I mean, that's like so hard.

[5:50]I thought it was I thought so too. It's so strange. Like you have the time that kid. I'm like, this is weird. Right. This is not fair. I even say it in my book. I'm like, my dad tells me to go away and I'm like, you're not supposed to tell me that.

[6:03]Right. In my heart. I felt like my father wasn't supposed to do that. I felt like I needed comfort. I and it just it was very strange and didn't didn't happen.

[6:12]But that's the thing about growing up. I guess is learning like I guess you always know or at some point you learn that your parents are people and that they're just regular humans.

[6:22]But I guess as you go, you learn that they, you know, you really learn who your parents are and what their priorities were and you know, they did every parent probably does their best. Right.

[6:35]It's important to look back at it.

[6:37]That's true.

[6:38]I feel like you have to though at some point kind of mourn the loss of what you wish you had a hundred percent.

[6:45]I think that that's a big deal for sure. I think also like that's a lot of autistic adults to a lot of us like more typically like kiddish things sometimes.

[6:56]Like you may see autistic people like really into Disney for a lot longer than others are really into like more childish things for a lot longer.

[7:04]I think that part of it is for a lot of us. We didn't have a safe childhood. Even if you had like the greatest space ever growing up.

[7:12]It can it's really tough just being autistic in the life. And I would argue it gets easier over time as you age because of you can sort of control some of your surroundings.

[7:25]Maybe being autistic and having all the sensory issues is awful. It's so uncomfortable all the time. So it's yeah, a lot of a lot of autistic childhoods are really in pain and it's sad.

[7:39]But it's also beautiful to see how a lot of us grow up and are able to be just even a smidge bit happier.

[7:50]It's sad. Happy and sad.

[7:52]I'm like, yeah, happy endings, but yeah, also also yeah, not the not the lovely not the lovely thing, but you know, you come out of it.

[7:59]Right. Everyone everyone has their not another thing. I like to think like everyone everyone has a story that would make you want to drop your knees and cry and scream at the world.

[8:09]And that's why I just want to be nice to everybody because you can say that for everyone. And this is just a small little bit of mine.

[8:17]It's really a it's so surreal sharing it with people because it's a it's just it's my I'm just a I'm just a little gal from a small town and now I'm sharing my life with people.

[8:31]And it's bizarre that it matters to anyone or you know it's that my life is how I found similar to some other people's.

[8:44]I believe it. I never could believe it. And it's so bizarre having my life out there and just seeing just what I think and what I say and what people around me thought and said.

[8:54]I just love people. I think that's the coolest thing that all of our experiences are what really teaches the rest of us in sharing what happens actually helps a lot of people.

[9:04]I have no idea that that would happen. And I'm so excited to see where this book. I mean where it could go.

[9:12]Welcome to being a writer. Yeah, it's wild. My first one. Yeah, I said it. I guess you only have the first one once. So I said to my team. I messed up. I'm like it's my first time don't worry. This will never happen again. My first time only happens once.

[9:26]Hopefully the next time if there is a next time. I love writing. I've always loved writing. I think that's what helped me to when I was a kid. I used to write in journals all the time.

[9:36]And so I have so many journals from being a kid. And I have all that like stored in my head to from just seeing it all the stuff I wrote down as a kid.

[9:44]So you should just might as well get started on your next one.

[9:47]Just get going. Yeah. I mean you're already behind. I mean, yeah. Yeah. At this point I am. Absolutely. This one isn't even know yet. And it's like yeah.

[9:56]They probably sign on for a movie. No, I'm getting Debbie.

[10:00]Oh, it's just yeah, it's wild. It's unbelievable. It's yeah, it's it's so cool and one thing that I really think you did such a good job of and I read a lot of books about parenting and

[10:11]diversity and all this kind of stuff, but I feel like you explained it so well how autism is not a disorder. It's not a disease. You can't like come down with it. I mean, obviously, but that it's literally the way like you you break down the science and very

[10:27]concrete terms. So it's like, oh, well, yeah, of course, they're you know, I love science. And that's my favorite thing because science makes you go, oh, you're like, of course, that makes sense. Right. I think that part of what people like what makes people angry at each other are weird about each other is just a lack of understanding. And really, once you understand the bread and butter of it, right, like you said, oh, well, that kind of makes a lot more sense.

[10:52]I think I love talking about science. That was one of my favorite parts. So at the end of your book, not to give anything away, but people know this because this might be how they know you to begin with, but at the end of your book, you talk about how you found TikTok during the pandemic and started posting and then it got kind of out of control and all these people were, I mean, compared to TikTok, this is going to be fine. You know, this book release, you're going to be like, oh, whatever.

[11:16]Is it that weird? I'm so excited. And I'm releasing a book and I have all these, all these opportunities are really amazing. And I'm so excited. It's really, it's, it's quite different from the TikTok stuff. But I think that I'm in a way, I guess kind of glad that I got that out of, I don't know, first. And so now I'm a, I can be a little bit more, I know a little bit more of what I'm doing and also be a little bit more professional and cautious moving forward.

[11:46]Now, yeah, being an adult. But yeah, blowing up on TikTok, that was weird. Not my ideal, not my vibe, honestly, not my vibe. It was not. I was, I don't know what's going on. But can I be honest, I was, I had, you ever heard of Ask FM? Yes. Yeah. So that was the thing like years ago and I don't know. I think I'm funny sometimes and I'll answer stuff and I guess some of my things were okay.

[12:13]And I had, I had like a lot of followers on Ask FM when I was like 12 when I, right. I don't, I should have been on social media, but I guess everyone was okay with it. And I was like, this is weird. And I used to remember my teachers, whenever they'd have like cyber talks about like cyber security, they'd always point me out like page your, your, your name, you search up pages name, she comes up, she's on there. And I was always so embarrassed.

[12:37]And I got Instagram and I got a few like thousand followers on Instagram. And I'm like, what's going on? Like, what is this? I don't understand. And then when it happened on TikTok and it went big, I was like, okay, I guess, you know what, I mean, I've grown up, the reason why this is so shocking. I think because I've grown up a lot of my life being autistic, a lot of people don't like me, a lot of people in my real life just haven't vibed with me.

[12:58]And it's so strange that strangers do. And because strangers do, I finally, I think TikTok was the thing that was like, okay, Paige, figure it out. I know you hate people like watching. Yeah. Even though I am an actor, I love that I can't see anyone in the, in the audience. That's my favorite part.

[13:19]I'm like, you just got to suck it up, I think now. And you got to do it, you got to do it for the people. You have to talk to all of these people that share the same experience that you have that you've been trying to push away for so long that you've been experiencing.

[13:33]Look at all of these other people that are also the feeling the little bits of pain that I have been feeling my whole life.

[13:39]But it's, I think it's cool now being maybe just the safety of being an adult and being able to navigate those spaces freely and safely. And well, not really, I guess, but you know, I think it's so funny that you keep referring to yourself as an adult, which obviously you are.

[13:54]But when you're like, I finally got to this part. And I'm like, do you understand that most authors I talk to who are like 60 years old are working out these things? You know, they still are not feeling like adults.

[14:05]I feel so. Yeah, I guess, but I am the oldest, I guess I've ever been. I try to remind myself like, yes, you do feel old because this is the oldest.

[14:13]But they don't, I feel like ever since I was a kid, I felt old. So maybe that's part of it. You know, or that they I always say, yeah, the mature, the mature young gal.

[14:22]I was mature. I also did cry a lot as a kid, but I was always I that really got to me. I mean that you were crying like every day, every day, I feel awful.

[14:32]Oh, no, I'm, I mean, I'll cry lots of times now I cry way more from being happy. I cry so much from happy stuff, which is a lovely thing about being autistic that I get so happy, even I just little things. It's really beautiful.

[14:49]But yeah, I used to, I used to cry all the time. It was so. I mean, no, no one likes crying and that like sobbing dry, heaving hyperventilating crying like that's not fun. That's so poopy.

[15:02]And I had, I had so many talks with my parents as I was growing up. And I had to try to explain to them as I was growing up like I'm not being dramatic. I'm not trying to be because they called me like, you know, I remember I had like shirts that would say like spoiled brat, spoiled rotten, you know, all that stuff like you're so spoiled, you're such drama queen, all that stuff.

[15:26]And they'd say all those things and like shut up, stop crying, shut up, like get over or whatever. Like quit it. You're making it worse. You're making me angry.

[15:36]And I'm like, when you say that, it makes it worse. I'm crying more now because you're yelling at me. And when they first like when I first could say that to them, it was like they were so shocked.

[15:47]They couldn't believe it. I'm like, is that not common sense to you that if you yell at a kid, they're going to cry like, come on, man. I'm a kid. And I know that you're 35 like dude.

[15:56]I just couldn't believe it. Do you think I want to cry like this all the time? This is so awful. It's so not fun. Yeah.

[16:05]But I don't know. Yeah. I don't know. Last, my parents' generation just months when my parents say though that they learned differently.

[16:13]I'm like, maybe, maybe you did.

[16:16]Maybe you did. I also think that people are maybe, maybe you guys just, maybe you guys just weren't super into raising kids. And that's fine. That's fine.

[16:26]You have a life and I'm here and I'm doing great. And they were great.

[16:29]What about your brother Graham? So awesome. Are you still really? I mean, I'm still you just finished the book. But you know, I love your relationship with him and how you described him as like then in high school, they became like so cool.

[16:41]And he was the one who was like, you don't need all these people to like you. Like you don't have to go to this party. If you don't want to.

[16:47]Because like so cool. Yeah. Tell me more about him.

[16:51]I don't even have confidence the word because I don't think he's been confident, but he's been.

[16:55]I think just he is such a good person. He's never had a reason to walk into a room and be weird at all to feel any kind of way.

[17:04]He walks into a room with like always with a smile on his face and he's just happy to be there and excited to meet people and just happy about life.

[17:14]And it was so silly growing up. We were so different and compared a bit, our parents really tried not to compare us. We were quite different though. Graham was always the athletic one. He played hockey forever.

[17:26]And he wasn't that good at school.

[17:28]And I was the one that was really good at school and I wasn't a big sports person.

[17:32]And I was also the one that was more dramatic. Right. I cried all the time, but I also was in theater and I was acting.

[17:38]and Graham was when he was little. He was always shy and just a shy little little kid, child, a nice kid. And so we were so different.

[17:46]But I think now honestly, he's old now. I say old, but he's he'll be 21 and two months, but just not that old.

[17:54]He's ancient. Yeah, he's I could not believe it. It's why he used to be seven. It's just what yeah, what's so weird.

[18:01]But yeah, now now he's old. I don't see him as often. That's for sure. I think that he's not too sure what he's doing right now. I think he's not.

[18:11]He never really what he was really going to do after high school and now it's after high school. And he's like, hmm.

[18:17]What am I going to do? And so he's figuring it out, but I haven't seen him. I haven't seen him in a minute. But it's unfortunate, but we're busy.

[18:26]talking in the book about your love of acting, which you already referenced now. Is this like where do you see not that you need to know, but because you seem like your this mature is like a six year old anyway.

[18:40]Where do you want your life to go and how much of your life do you want to be about advocacy for autism versus living your life doing something else versus, you know, are these the things you're wrestling with?

[18:53]Great questions. And this is, yes, these are the biggest questions of my life. And I think I've never known what I wanted to do ever.

[19:01]But I think that I've been acting forever. I love it. I truly do. And I I've always thought whatever job, whatever job I have, it's going to happen naturally. It's going to go. It's going to have to because I have a lot of loves. And I can't choose what to focus on.

[19:21]I really want to I really want to live life. I really want to be happy. I really want to be stress-free most of my days and just like go outside and breathe the air and go, oh, I've done everything I need to do today.

[19:35]I want that way more often than I've had before. I spent like a lot of my teenage hood too. Like I had four jobs on the go and I was dancing competitively. I was I was go, go, go, go, why? Why did I do that? I hate that so much. I never want to do that ever again. That was awful. I don't want to be busy. And like it's it's great to like make a lot of money.

[20:00]be now and then you know retire and do all that when you retire, but I'm also okay with like

[20:06]making a little less now and living a little bit easier now and just living easier after

[20:14]I don't know too much hard, I guess. Maybe that's just how I am right now entering my 20s.

[20:19]Maybe this is my little break, my little moment of

[20:22]okay, figuring out who you are, what's happened, getting back to you, getting back to

[20:27]the things that you were ashamed of doing because you were a teenager and scared of other

[20:30]people. And then maybe, I don't know, maybe I'll be different in a few years, but I know that right now

[20:37]I'm sticking with what is calling me. It's like yeah, people want to, people have a lot,

[20:46]there are a lot of people out there with a lot of important perspectives and opinions and relate

[20:51]to me a lot. And there's a lot of autistic kids out there that I don't want to grow up like me.

[20:57]And every time I talk that changes a little bit, even if like one kid, that's why that one kid

[21:04]could have been me and that could have changed my life. So that's the goal. And I hope that this

[21:10]book is another resource that someone wouldn't have found otherwise, like maybe couldn't have,

[21:16]yeah, I hope that this helps somebody. If I think if I read this as a kid, well, I want to

[21:22]probably freak out because it's my brain, but it would have been really beneficial into my

[21:26]parents too, I think. Yeah. And then I look at my mind and what's going on.

[21:34]You said you weren't going to cry. I know. What am I? Yeah, I know. Big cry.

[21:39]Always. I cry all the time. I've cried twice today. I cried. Oh, yeah, sing a bite of the bus this

[21:44]morning. I'm like, yeah, sometimes people just live with their emotions a lot closer to the surface.

[21:49]Yeah, good. Yeah. I've always been a very sensitive person, I guess. But yeah, I live big. I got big

[21:55]feelings. I think you're so right. I think people get so caught up in numbers, like how many

[22:01]people are reading this book or how many people, right? If one person know this book and you affected

[22:06]their life and they were grateful to you for the rest of their lives, like what a gift is,

[22:09]that is such a gift. And that's not obviously not going to happen either. But you know, it's just

[22:13]I saw something about like post doesn't matter if you've got seven subscribers or seven thousand

[22:19]post. You don't know, do your thing anyway. Cause there was this one guy I guess he had like two

[22:24]subscribers and he was getting 10 views on a video. But one of those views was Oprah.

[22:31]Obama brought him on and changed his life. No way. Yeah. And ever since I heard that story,

[22:37]I'm like, oh, well, I it could be Oprah. So it doesn't matter if one person see that that one person

[22:43]could really, it could be the person. It could be the person that needs to see it. You never know.

[22:49]Yeah. Oh my gosh. What about parents who are listening who maybe they know their kid is autistic,

[22:55]maybe they don't know, maybe they suspect, maybe they have friends of their kids who are

[22:59]autistic. And what do you want them to know that they don't know? What do I want them to know?

[23:06]I want them to know about autism. I think in the grander scheme of things overall,

[23:13]every autistic person is so, so, so different. That's like, that's like one of the biggest things.

[23:20]Not only are we so different from everyone else, but we're so different from each other.

[23:25]And each of us is our own person with our own personality, with our own likes and dislikes,

[23:30]and our own favorite things and least favorite things. And we're all just for all people.

[23:36]We're autistic people, but we got to go through all the same other stuff that everyone else

[23:41]is too. We just got to do it with a little bit of extra juice. But yeah, I think that I hope that

[23:50]if anyone reads my book that they find it helpful, understanding a little bit more of the

[23:56]inner workings of an autistic mind and what's going on with the thought process of an autistic

[24:02]person or the reactions of an autistic person. And I think that there are some things, hopefully,

[24:08]if any parents, I mean, I'm sure that there are parents that understand what my parents were going

[24:14]through a little bit and having a kid like me and not knowing what's going on. And I hope that they

[24:21]read this book and they go, oh my god, okay, I know what to do now or I know what not to do now.

[24:27]Or I know how to make this better in just a little way. And I feel it. I feel it. It's just

[24:33]going to be little things. But these little things are going to keep coming and keep getting bigger

[24:38]and keep changing so many people's lives that then it'll be everywhere. And autistic people

[24:44]everywhere will be just a little bit happier and be treated a little bit better. And I'll just

[24:50]keep being it. And I hope that I hope it never stops. I love that. I'm so impressed with you.

[24:55]The book was fabulous. It's really good on so many levels. And I really enjoyed it. I'm going to

[25:03]giving this to a lot of people and recommending it. And, you know, bravo to you. I mean, oh my gosh,

[25:08]written at age 21. It's pretty awesome. Thank you. Thank you very much. I appreciate talking with you.

[25:14]I wish you all the best. And I love that you're like, I just love people who want to help them.

[25:19]I mean, how great is that? How great is that? It's amazing. I wish more people were like you.

[25:24]Thank you. Thanks for having me. Thanks for chitchat with me about it. I was so excited.

[25:31]So excited for it to come out and people to more people to see it. Yeah. Very, very, very wild.

[25:38]I hope I hope you have plans to go to lots of schools and things like that. Are you doing that?

[25:42]That's what I, yeah, I would love to. I would love to. Yeah. My, my school board's host or

[25:48]building is like right next to my house. I'm like, I might just go in. Hello, remember me? I,

[25:54]hello. Let's see what happens. Yeah. You should definitely get to really get a benefit. It's

[25:59]great. Thank you so much. Thank you for talking to you. Hey, talking to you too. Hi. How

[26:04]did my great rest of your day? You too. Thanks for listening to momstone have time to read books.

[26:10]If you love it, please leave a review and follow us on social at city Owens and at city readers.