USA Today bestseller!! Jessie Rosen, THE HEIRLOOM
[0:02]Hi, I'm Zippy Owens, and I am the host of this podcast, Mom's Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[0:08]I am also a newly minted USA Today best-selling author of the novel, Blake.
[0:14]I've created a whole community of book lovers around this podcast, a publishing company,
[0:19]reading retreats, a bookstore, and more. Learn more at ZippyMedia.com or follow
[0:24]me on social at Zippy Owens or join the community at Zippy Readers.
[0:31]Jesse Rosen is the author of the heirloom. Jesse is an East Coast raised West Coast
[0:37]based writer, producer, educator, and speaker. In 2007, Jesse created the blog 20 Nothing,
[0:43]named a time top 25 blog, Forbes top 100 website for women and top 10 website for millennials.
[0:50]Jesse's writing soon expanded to film and television. She has sold original projects to full-screen
[0:55]Warner Brothers television, ABC Studios, CBS Studios Netflix and Warner Brothers television,
[1:01]with Jim Parsons that wonderful productions producing. In 2025, she released the novel Dead
[1:06]Ringer, a YA thriller, through James Fry's publishing company, Full Fathom 5.
[1:11]James Fry was also on this podcast, by the way, back in the days you'll have to search for that.
[1:15]In addition to her writing, Jesse created the live storytelling series, Sunday Night Sex Talks,
[1:20]True Stories of Sex, Love, and Intimacy. Performers have included Michelle Buto, Rachel Blum,
[1:26]Cindy Schupack, all three of them have been on this podcast, by the way, so you can listen to this.
[1:30]Cameron Esposito and 180 plus more. The show was featured as a date on ABC's The Bachelorette,
[1:36]delivering them their highest rated episode of The Season. In 2018, Jesse was tapped by
[1:43]Brett Inc., YouTube's number one teen leaning studio, to develop their writer's room and content
[1:48]creation process for all scripted programming. She oversaw seven original series from concept
[1:53]through delivery, more than 75 episodes of content. Jesse followed that by show running three
[1:59]seasons of The Baxter's, a half hour dramedy for MGM and Will Packer Media. She oversaw
[2:06]all writing and production for 101 days of location-based shooting in Los Angeles, completing a
[2:12]total of 36 episodes of television in 11 months. In 2023, she returned to novel writing,
[2:18]selling the airline to Putnam at Penguin Random House in a pre-empt and getting a two-book deal.
[2:24]And now, the novel is coming out. She lives in Eagle Rock, Los Angeles, with her husband,
[2:28]and their perfect dog, Louis. Welcome, Jesse. Thank you so much for coming on
[2:32]Monster and have time to read books. Discuss the heirloom. Oh, thank you so much for having me. I'm
[2:41]a fan, and I'm just excited to get the chance to talk about it. Oh, my gosh. I have to tell you,
[2:46]so my, well, you know, you tell what the book's about and then I want to share this little tidbit
[2:51]with you, which you'll hopefully find interesting. Okay. So the book is about a woman who has a very
[2:56]strong superstition around vintage engagement rings, meaning they hold the karma of the relationships
[3:04]in which they have been worn in the past. And I should confess, this is a family superstition
[3:09]for my Italian relatives. So of course she gets proposed to with a vintage ring, and she insists
[3:16]on knowing everyone that's ever worn it before. So so begins a whirlwind adventure around the
[3:22]world and throughout time to discover the origin of the ring, but really to uncover her feelings
[3:27]about why she's so anxious to be married and what that really means for her. So cool.
[3:34]I have thought about this so much because I originally found my ring to my wedding to Kyle
[3:41]in a vintage store in Charleston, South Carolina. And I saw it and was like, but what about the
[3:48]person? What's the story? Right? And I like couldn't get it out of my head. And we ended up
[3:53]bringing the ring to New York to have it, you know, looked at or whatever. It turns out it was
[3:56]totally cracked. So I copied it. So this isn't the original. We sent the original back to the store.
[4:01]But in the store and in every vintage store, I've been in it. I'm just like surrounded by ghosts,
[4:06]what is the story? And your book is like, it's like what my brain wanted to know the answers to.
[4:13]You just like went ahead and did. And I'm like, thank you very much. I love this too. Well,
[4:18]you got the best of both worlds, but I feel like I have to promise to readers because of course
[4:22]readers are going to fall in the spectrum in terms of superstitions. That's why I felt like I had an
[4:27]idea in this book because when I was pre engaged and I had this superstition and it came up,
[4:33]people wanted to debate me and don't stop about it. And so I just it felt like, you know,
[4:38]fodder, but I promised to readers no matter where you fall in the spectrum, you will feel comfortable
[4:44]with the choice of your ring at the end of the model. Do you think that's fair to say?
[4:47]I think that's fair to say. I love it. I love it. Yes. It is with everything vintage though.
[4:52]Don't you feel like like I feel like a great writing assignment is just like go to a vintage store
[4:56]and make like look at a piece and just like tell the backstory of the piece. Go.
[5:01]Yeah. And that's I think that's the beauty of it. Especially when you feel like I love that
[5:05]you went into the store in Charleston, you saw the writing you felt what sounds like deeply connected
[5:09]to it. Yeah. I mean, you can't deny that. And there's a bit of that in the book too. Really
[5:15]this idea that hold on. This feels meant to be how do I resolve this other feeling? I'm having.
[5:21]And yeah, I'm there all the time. I'm a huge vintage collector. Alpha completeness,
[5:26]very superstitious Italian family. So there's you know resolving those things has been
[5:30]continues to be a lifelong battle as I sit here wearing a vintage scarf.
[5:36]And as I said, you're wearing vintage nothing, but that's okay. But you in the book,
[5:40]not you, your character in the book, it's very clear that there are things, right? This is like how
[5:46]you come out of the gate strong with your character being like, you're, I mean, essentially it's like
[5:49]the, her fiance is just not listening to her. Like that alone would be a warning though.
[5:54]Yeah, lines very early on that there are four non-negotiables. And the fourth one is that you can't
[6:01]like I will not, which is a random thing to have as one of your non-negotiables, but like
[6:04]no vintage wedding rings. Engage your eggs. Yeah. So even though he has this great reason and it's
[6:10]romantic, you know, blah, blah, blah, it's still a complete, completely defying what she wanted,
[6:15]which is never a good shoe to start the right foot. What's that expression? That's the right
[6:20]yes, but to start on or whatever. Yeah. And it was one of the huge things that when writing this,
[6:25]I had this idea. And of course, I had to, you know, have this premise going in that I had to figure
[6:30]out how to resolve. So I had like this story that I wanted to tell as a writer, but then of course,
[6:34]it had to follow logic. So earning that decision from the fiance who's named as John. But then also
[6:41]using it as a red flag for my main character, that's kind of what I wanted. You know, what is she?
[6:48]what's going to be the thing that kicks off her idea that this really beautiful and perhaps
[6:53]quote-unquote, the one relationship might not be. Yeah, which is terrifying.
[6:58]It's never good when you have to drag your sister into the bathroom two minutes later.
[7:03]Yes, another real life example. Yes, we love a bathroom confessional in my family.
[7:11]Your family sounds awesome. Like I don't know what you've said so far in two minutes is like,
[7:15]this is a party I want to go to. Oh, I love it. I love it. Yes, good food. Very good.
[7:20]Okay. My husband is Italian. So yeah, the best. It's the best. Yeah, such a good cook.
[7:26]Anyway, okay, you've had the most interesting career to date. I am obsessed with the whole thing.
[7:32]Tell listeners about it, how you started the 20 nothing's, how you've transitioned this to this
[7:37]massive career and screenwriting and pretty like all the stuff. It's so cool. Thank you.
[7:43]Yeah, I mean, like many things, there have been these really interesting nudges,
[7:48]both kind of intuition nudges and then really helpful nudges and guidance from people along the way.
[7:53]So my blog 20, enough things, which was started in and listeners probably remember, there was
[7:56]like a blog boom around 2004, 2005. I was against it. Meanwhile, I was writing about my experience
[8:04]of having moved to Manhattan and struggling to be a 20 something as emails and sending them to my friends
[8:11]who are sending them to friends of friends. Until someone finally said, really now,
[8:16]this should be a blog. So I think that that fear of kind of exposure and the exposure of writing
[8:21]has always been with me as a confidence issue. And so again, it took a friend saying, when I
[8:26]reach your blog, it's so dialogue. Have you ever considered screenwriting and television?
[8:31]When you grow up on the East Coast as I did, we didn't have friends in the film and television
[8:36]it was a huge dream and I was a huge lover of that form of writing. I just never thought it was
[8:42]possible for me. So all these steps required me to kind of take a class at the new school when I
[8:48]lived in Manhattan and buy that book on screenwriting and really very slowly build to the point where
[8:53]I was ready to move to Los Angeles and secure to manager who left the business, secure to second
[8:59]manager who left the business. So you know, there've been these long steps and processes and
[9:05]finally landing with reps that helped guide me to some original content in film and tv and
[9:10]staffing. But I think it was five years in Los Angeles before that really started to turn for me.
[9:17]And again, I was really lucky to be with reps that said, we think you should try your hand at
[9:23]pros. You know, we think that it's an interesting expansion of voice and very wisely as I'm sure
[9:29]you appreciate the IP of it all owning your content. Having that book turned into a film or a
[9:36]television show is just a business model that's become, you know, who knows if it will happen with
[9:41]this novel. But at the same time, just the idea of ownership at all of your property. It's very
[9:46]different in the book world and not. So with that support, I expanded into that kind of work.
[9:52]And yeah, it's been, I mean, really when I look at it, it's been almost 18 full years
[9:59]of pursuing.
[10:00]different things along the way.
[10:01]And never not, also dabbling in a little freelance writing
[10:05]to support myself, also doing a little writing coaching,
[10:08]speaking of retreats to support myself.
[10:10]So it's such a, it has to be diverse, I think,
[10:14]to maintain it and your energy around it.
[10:17]I like my brain getting to go between different formats.
[10:21]That's so cool.
[10:21]So you went to L.A.
[10:24]And then when did you do the brats, right?
[10:27]Yeah, yeah.
[10:28]Maybe more about that, that's so cool.
[10:29]I was probably about five or six years
[10:32]into really turning on the television writing front.
[10:35]And I got approached by a studio
[10:38]that was looking to almost an old studio system
[10:41]of we hire a team of writers.
[10:43]And this full team is going to be creating content
[10:46]in-house for young adult audiences.
[10:49]And it was so interesting because I am an oldest sister.
[10:52]I have three younger sisters.
[10:54]And I think that one of the reasons
[10:57]that I got that job is because they were looking
[10:59]for a showrunner, but really this auntie, big sister,
[11:04]mentor, energy that could come into the room and say,
[11:07]okay, team, this is how we're going to get this done.
[11:10]And yes, it was about the writing.
[11:12]And it was about turning in the content,
[11:14]but it was really about setting up systems
[11:17]and about leadership and about figuring out
[11:20]how to really get a ton of work out of a young cadre
[11:24]of writers and make sure everyone felt okay doing it.
[11:29]And I have to say the one thing I miss in these years
[11:32]I've now got to spend writing novels is that dynamic.
[11:36]I love it.
[11:37]I love being in the mix of this was a group of young women,
[11:40]which is especially important to me
[11:43]and getting to figure out how we make writing productive
[11:47]and fun how we are nice to each other in the process
[11:52]inside a system in Hollywood and Los Angeles
[11:55]that can be very cutthroat.
[11:56]So I really love that time.
[11:58]So you're the big sister of Los Angeles essentially.
[12:01]A grand title, I don't know.
[12:03]I didn't know what else has it.
[12:05]So you might as well grab it.
[12:06]I'll take it.
[12:07]I love it.
[12:09]So when you went from, sorry, I'm in New York,
[12:11]so you're hearing lots of sirens.
[12:13]It's when you went to prose.
[12:15]Like it doesn't seem like you're just testing it out.
[12:17]Like you're really good at it
[12:19]and you have boys obviously down, dialogue down.
[12:23]But there's so much else to making a book, a good book, right?
[12:27]Like how did you learn that or was it just
[12:30]did it feel instinctive to you, how to structure it,
[12:33]how did you go about it?
[12:34]I think three things.
[12:35]First, I had first envisioning the early ones of film.
[12:38]So I used that classic, each sheet,
[12:41]saved the cat book structure.
[12:44]And I think that helped because I had really clear structure.
[12:47]Of course, I had to expand upon it.
[12:49]Like all that teaching in that style plot and story development,
[12:52]I think really helped me.
[12:54]But then two things.
[12:55]I have amazing guidance from my literary manager
[13:00]and then we brought on a book agent for this project
[13:03]and really, truly excellent notes.
[13:07]Even direction in terms of, okay,
[13:09]I know you're a reader of this and this.
[13:10]You need to go read this, this and this
[13:12]to hear this and see this.
[13:14]You know, I chose to write this in first person.
[13:17]That was a huge learning curve for me.
[13:19]So the journey from zero to a manuscript
[13:22]that we sent for submission on early was over two and a half years
[13:27]of really me really honing the pros of it all.
[13:32]And hearing that and getting that right
[13:34]because it was, it is such a different thing.
[13:37]I can't believe how many words you have to put
[13:39]on a single page in the book.
[13:40]They just go down the middle and it's a screenplay
[13:44]and then it's done.
[13:46]Yeah, it's such a different thing.
[13:48]So I think it's a testament to people believing in me
[13:51]and giving you really good notes
[13:52]and then any kind of resourcing from absolutely everything
[13:56]I could find to just learn the craft
[13:58]and to say like to begin to learn the craft.
[14:01]You know, I hope that this is something that becomes
[14:04]a lifetime of work for me and I am at the dinner.
[14:07]Well, I mean, beginner's luck?
[14:09]I don't know.
[14:11]It works.
[14:13]When you were working on the heirloom
[14:15]where there are books you look to that you were like,
[14:17]oh, I want it kind of to feel like this
[14:19]or these are the comms.
[14:20]Sorry, there's even more silence out here.
[14:22]There's probably, my building is probably
[14:24]something's probably happening, but it's fine.
[14:26]I'm not going to stop the podcast no matter what.
[14:29]Were there books you look to or voices you love
[14:31]that guided you along the way?
[14:33]Yeah, I feel like I have these three biggest influences
[14:37]which may seem like such a weird combination of people
[14:39]but it's always for me, Jane Austen,
[14:41]Judy Bloom, Nora Efron.
[14:44]And it's, I think that does make sense.
[14:46]Maybe when you read my writing,
[14:47]there's always like a little social commentary,
[14:49]a little culture commentary like Jane Austen.
[14:52]And then there is some personal journey stuff
[14:55]like confronting a big thing like Judy Bloom
[14:57]always gave us.
[14:58]Yep.
[14:59]And then Nora, I mean, for the rom-com of it all.
[15:02]And you know, I think of Nora's films a little bit more
[15:05]than her books.
[15:05]But her burn is a beautiful book and I of course read it
[15:08]before getting ready for this.
[15:10]So those are kind of the elder influences.
[15:13]And then I would read my Rebecca Searle, you know,
[15:16]those kind of voices that I think had a little bit
[15:20]of what I was trying to achieve in a lot of romance
[15:23]and always comedy, but really giving readers
[15:27]an in-depth look at this relationship
[15:28]to a woman in herself.
[15:31]Her love for herself.
[15:32]And how is she going to tap into that and honor that?
[15:36]So that was something I was always looking
[15:37]to find in school and song.
[15:40]That's a great answer.
[15:41]I also love Judy Bloom at Nora Efron.
[15:44]I should give those as answers myself.
[15:47]You're welcome to them.
[15:48]I posted recently about Irma Bambag, who I love.
[15:52]Yes, and I saw that you were at one of her
[15:54]on conferences and they're so good.
[15:56]I've got to get there for that.
[15:57]And I also love Anna Quinlan.
[15:58]Anyway, but yes, I love the humor.
[16:00]And just that real, you know, no artifice, right?
[16:04]Of Judy Bloom and Nora Efron,
[16:06]it's their interpretation of the way things are
[16:09]and the funny in the everyday,
[16:11]which you obviously do in the heirloom as well.
[16:14]So that's great.
[16:15]I love that.
[16:16]Thank you.
[16:17]Did you have a cover in mind and was this it?
[16:21]Well, I had a dream for what the cover wouldn't look like.
[16:26]Okay.
[16:27]Which maybe a strange answer,
[16:29]but I really wanted this book to have a chance
[16:32]to differentiate a little bit from the visuals
[16:36]that I think are very strongly rom-com-oriented,
[16:39]which are of course, and really so,
[16:41]images that contain a couple in any way shape or form.
[16:45]And of course, that is such a huge part of the book,
[16:48]but I wanted a cover that made you say,
[16:51]I want to get inside that book.
[16:53]I want to go there.
[16:54]I want to feel that.
[16:55]And when we talked about the originally with my publisher,
[16:58]Putnam, they were so in support of that.
[17:01]I was thrilled.
[17:02]You know, of course, this is a book about an engagement ring.
[17:05]I envisioned a pitch that was an engagement ring on the cover.
[17:09]But I think we all felt like we wanted to give readers
[17:11]a chance to understand that this was more than that.
[17:15]And that like vibes are going to be heavy.
[17:19]And I think that's it.
[17:21]And it's so funny.
[17:22]I've guessed when I saw the first draft of the book
[17:24]because those are the colors of the book,
[17:27]which is this sunset ombre is like the colors
[17:30]of my entire closet.
[17:31]Really?
[17:32]It's like the colors of my soul, Zippy.
[17:34]Wow.
[17:35]The colors of my soul is absolutely gorgeous.
[17:39]Yes, such a lovely thing.
[17:40]And we need a few adjustments along the way.
[17:42]So there's a little image of a woman
[17:45]that you'll see gazing out across a distance.
[17:48]And that was something that we decided to add in.
[17:50]Like a little characterization just to say,
[17:53]you're about to go on this journey to this.
[17:55]Take me there place with this woman.
[17:57]I did not even notice the woman.
[17:59]Yes.
[18:00]Oh my gosh.
[18:01]She's in Easter egg.
[18:02]I had to just put on my glasses to see that.
[18:04]But now I see her.
[18:05]And that's awesome.
[18:06]Yeah, very cool.
[18:08]Oh my gosh.
[18:08]We have like a section.
[18:10]Well, you'll see because you're doing it in the bookstore,
[18:11]but we have a section on romcoms abroad.
[18:14]Yes.
[18:15]There's so many people come in wanting that.
[18:17]Yeah.
[18:17]You want that.
[18:18]And I think you want to be transported.
[18:20]I wrote this partly during the pandemic.
[18:22]And some of the locations I chose just because I wanted,
[18:24]I wish I was there instead of in my house.
[18:28]It's really cool.
[18:29]Are you working on another book?
[18:31]And will it take people lots of other places as well?
[18:34]Yes, I am and it will.
[18:36]So I was really lucky with this.
[18:37]So for it to be part of a two book deal.
[18:40]And the second book we decided not to be a true sequel,
[18:43]but we're calling it a spiritual sister,
[18:46]which is, you know, you're going to get journey.
[18:50]You're going to get a confronting question
[18:53]that a woman is going through.
[18:55]And yeah, we're going to hit the road.
[18:56]I feel like right now that's just a vibe
[18:59]that I really enjoy of.
[19:01]I know I think I like a woman and a character that just says,
[19:04]well, if it takes going, I'm going to go,
[19:08]I'm getting get on a plane.
[19:09]I'm going to take the journey.
[19:10]I think that's fun.
[19:12]And I think that it's aspirational.
[19:14]So yeah, we're going.
[19:16]There's some tonal returns to some places.
[19:19]And then there's some totally new stuff in the mix.
[19:21]Very cool.
[19:22]I feel like you need to do a trip around these books
[19:25]for other people like retreats.
[19:26]And stuff you're working on any funny, you should say that.
[19:29]I mean, it's a very big dream.
[19:30]I'm so focused on this right now.
[19:32]But yeah, I mean, your retreats are a really good example
[19:35]of just when you bring people together
[19:38]in beautiful, the beauty of the place
[19:40]and the vibe of the place and the energy.
[19:42]That's why you go on retreats to places
[19:45]instead of having them, you know, in your hometown.
[19:47]Every retreat is worth it.
[19:49]But yeah, location.
[19:51]Yeah.
[19:51]OK.
[19:52]Maybe we team up for an interview.
[19:53]We'll talk.
[19:54]We'll talk later.
[19:55]OK, we'll talk later.
[19:57]I would love to do that.
[19:58]I know.
[19:58]I'm like, 2025 is going to be my...
[20:00]international year. We can move things. Yeah. I love it. Do you still do? I'm sorry and I should
[20:09]know this, but are you doing stuff still in the TV screenwriting studio world at the same time?
[20:15]But for the past year, I've been totally focused on getting book one and now developing book two
[20:20]ready. There is a plan to pitch book one the airroom. So that will happen and I'll be out in
[20:26]that world in that capacity. But no, in terms of writing in a writer's room or show running a
[20:32]show, it's been about three years since that. And yeah, I miss the people. You know, I miss the
[20:39]connection. Writing is so solitary. I'm constantly trying to find ways to just bring people
[20:44]into my physical space. Like do you want to write in my living room and all write in my office or vice
[20:47]or vice versa? Just because the social nature of film and television work is great, the collaboration.
[20:54]And so I've been, I really want to stay with pros and stay with novels for a bit and really try to grow
[21:00]this piece of of my life. But I also need to find ways. I think that's where the retreats come
[21:06]in. This is sounding better and better. Okay. I'm with you. Yeah. Yeah. So that's so exciting.
[21:14]Well, having just taught yourself how to write fiction easily as it turns out, what kind of advice
[21:19]would you have for somebody who's embarking on a novel? Yeah. I think you have
[21:24]to be a reader to be a writer. I think it's the very first thing is just to consume it. It's almost
[21:29]like you have to get the rhythm. This is I think why I struggle because I had a rhythm of television
[21:34]and film writing in my bones and in the way that I approach things. The rhythm of the structure
[21:39]of what sounds like and how like single paragraphs or chapter slope is so important.
[21:45]But then I get the other and you have to do is just go like almost like do that and then
[21:51]erase it from your mind because the idea is what it's about. No figure out the structure.
[21:56]Someone will help you. There are so many people between one more time retreats and coaches and
[22:03]you know, amazing places where you can go to learning a craft. I am often so frustrated for
[22:09]writers when I hear that they think they can't do the prose. Oh, I can't I write this. I could
[22:14]never do that because I think that's important but also forget about it. You will you will learn it
[22:20]and consider yourself a beginner because then the pressure is offered it to be perfect.
[22:26]Go with the idea, find the character, start to let it flow and then you'll fix all the rest.
[22:31]I mean, that's how I did it certainly. So why would you not just take the heirloom and write the script
[22:38]yourself? Yeah. So when we pitch it, I am it is my dream to attach myself as the to do the
[22:45]adaptation and that process will just kind of see how it could be crumbles if there is
[22:50]interest in, you know, someone, a producer or a studio is kind of taking that on or if it turns
[22:55]out that I need to spec it or write it on spec, we'll see what happens. So you wouldn't just do
[23:00]it on spec to have it to pitch. Not at this juncture and a little bit of that is just I wrote the
[23:07]manuscript, the book manuscript on spec instead of trying to sell off proposal and that was kind of
[23:12]that process. And now I think it may be just the way that an all writer should know this, the
[23:19]the market for interest in books and IP is just huge. It's bigger than ever. And I think that
[23:26]allows writers, you know, my goal for every writer is to get paid to write the work and that's not
[23:32]always possible. And it has not always been possible for me. And so there are moments when you say
[23:37]to yourself, the wisest investment is one of my own time in writing this on spec and not getting paid.
[23:43]And then there are these moments when you say, I wonder if we could take this out and we could
[23:47]sell this and I could be paid to write the first chapter of the script and it's got it, you know,
[23:52]it's always an in and out with that. It's hard to know. But yeah, that's the goal. Excellent. Wow.
[23:58]Okay. So what are other superstitions of your family that might might or may not make appearances
[24:05]in fiction? Right. We have this very weird lines that you cannot enter from a door and exit
[24:14]from a different door. So it's this huge superstition around houses and entering a home and being
[24:20]in a home in an exiting home. So that is one that always comes to mind. I don't know if it's thought
[24:25]or for a whole book, but that's a big one. And then there are a lot of superstitions that aren't
[24:29]so much don't do something, but do do something. So like line up the plastic statues of the
[24:36]same and each one of them have a special, if you bury this one in the backyard upside down, you
[24:41]sell your house. If you wear this one around a necklace while you're pregnant, you have a beautiful
[24:46]pregnancy, like all these sorts of things. Wow. So I think it would be fun to play with one of those,
[24:52]almost like an inverse of the urban, the earlyness kind of, but don't do this or else
[24:56]superstition. And I think it would be fun to play with the superstition that's like,
[24:59]if you do this, this will happen. Wow, you'll love it. So what part of Italy is
[25:04]or all your family members from? They're all kind of if you go like down to Naples and then go
[25:10]a little bit, I guess that would be east into the countryside. So some really small towns,
[25:15]the biggest town of Salerno, which is actually on the coast, but then there's some teeny towns
[25:19]in the middle towns. I have not been to, which is potentially even more fodder
[25:26]for some future work because I'd love to get there. Yeah, and just see if there's any of the
[25:30]last names of the family still in the mix. I don't, I think I used to trade. If I remember correctly,
[25:36]I don't think any of the last names in the book are exactly the last names of my family,
[25:40]which was also kind of a different version of a superstition. You know, let's just take a one
[25:46]vowel step away from this. Interesting, but close, close, not exactly honoring, but not
[25:53]exactly not easy. And when you're not writing and in LA and all that, what are some of your
[26:00]go-to things to do for the restaurants? Yeah, my husband and I are big, both big restaurant
[26:07]foodies and also just people that like to cook for others. So having different parties and having
[26:12]people over in our, in our little house, I'm a dog mama. So I've got, you know, dog hikes and
[26:18]fun things like that. And then we love to travel. One of the things as much as I miss living in New
[26:22]York, some of the East Coast, one of the nice things about Los Angeles is you can hop in your car
[26:26]and get up to, you know, a one country in two hours. You can get East to Palm Springs. You can get
[26:31]down to San Diego. So it would be like to kind of pop in the car and go up and discover somewhere. Our
[26:36]current favorite is the San Diego Valley. And I feel like, I feel like you may have done a retreat
[26:41]there. There's like the Los Angeles area just discovering new lines and foods that they're.
[26:47]That California is great. Yeah. Yeah. You go two hours. Where am I? Like Philly or something?
[26:52]Yeah. Yeah. No, nothing. Nothing wrong with Philly. In fact, I'm doing that drive soon, but it's not
[26:57]the one country. Let's fit that. Yeah. Yeah. Natural beauty. Exactly. And I know you have your
[27:04]favorite authors, but are you reading anything that you can't put down or has there been something
[27:07]lately? Yeah. So I'm writing fiction. So I'm writing book two right now. And so it's really hard.
[27:13]It's hard for me to read fiction in the middle of writing fiction. That is to say, I do have
[27:18]Rebecca Swell's expiration dates on my bedside right now because I just, I couldn't read this.
[27:22]But I'm actually reading something so interesting. It's called burnout by Emily and Amelia
[27:27]Nagoski. I think it may have about like a year or two ago. It's fascinating. I got the process
[27:33]of like unloading stress. Yeah. How you do it? What it looks like physically? Why you do it?
[27:39]And you know, what better time than when I'm launching a book and trying to write a second one?
[27:44]I just felt like I needed tools in this book. It's fascinating. So highly recommend.
[27:49]Interesting. Okay. Amazing. Well, Jesse, this has been so much fun. I really hope I get to meet you
[27:56]for having this weekend, perhaps another time. But this has been great. And I appreciate it.
[28:01]Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks for listening to mom. So I have time to read books.
[28:07]If you love it, please leave a review and follow us on social at sippy Owens and at sippy readers.