Zibby's Book Club pick!! Annabel Monaghan, SUMMER ROMANCE
[0:02]Hi, I'm Sivi Owens and I am the host of this podcast, Mom's Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[0:07]I am also a newly minted USA Today best-selling author of the novel, Blake.
[0:14]I've created a whole community of book lovers around this podcast, a publishing company,
[0:19]reading retreats, a bookstore, and more.
[0:21]Learn more at ZiviMedia.com or follow me on social at Zivi Owens or join the community at ZiviReaders.
[0:31]Annabelle Moynihan is the author of Summer Romance, which is one of the Zivi's book club picks.
[0:37]I hope you will join us for our book club discussion about this book and have Annabelle come and
[0:42]join us for 30 minutes of Q&A afterwards. You can find all the details of that on ZiviMedia.com.
[0:48]This is Annabelle's third time, I think, second, third, not sure, time on the podcast.
[0:52]And she is one of my favorite authors. Annabelle Moynihan is the national best-selling author of
[0:58]same-time next summer and Nora goes off script. By the way, Summer Romance is of course on my list
[1:03]of Summer Reads, which I hope you will check out. She is also the author of two novels for young adults,
[1:09]a girl named Digit and Devil Digit, as well as, does this follow-up make my butt-like big
[1:13]a collection of essays based on her column that appears on the Huffington Post the week and the
[1:18]rye record? She graduated with a BA in English from Duke University and an MBA in Finance
[1:23]from the Wharton School at the University of Pennsylvania. She hosts an author series called Friends
[1:27]with Words and spends several years on the novel writing faculty at the Writing Institute
[1:32]at Sarah Lawrence College. She lives in Rhyany York with her family, her newest novel, Summer Romance,
[1:37]came out June 4th. Welcome Annabelle, thank you so much for coming on mom's turn-of-time
[1:42]to read books. My Zivi's book club pick, but your amazing amazing amazing novel, Summer Romance,
[1:48]so good, loved it so much. Thank you so much. Thank you for reading it and thank you for having me.
[1:53]Oh my gosh, it's so good. It's just so good. Okay, tell everybody what it's about, first of all.
[1:57]So it's about a professional organizer whose life is a total mess. Her house is a mess.
[2:04]She's grieving the loss of her mother. Her husband has recently left about a year ago and she is
[2:10]completely stuck and she gets it in her head that maybe having a Summer Romance with this guy
[2:17]who's just going to be in town for the summer might be just the thing to get her unstuck.
[2:22]That's the premise. Okay, I think that's a good one. I mean, I think that's a good summary.
[2:26]It's a long elevator ride if that's the picture. Where did this come from?
[2:32]It really came from like the deepest place in my heart. I thought I was going to write a book.
[2:38]I wanted to write a book about a professional organizer whose house was a mess.
[2:42]Is your house a mess? My house is a total disaster. Yeah, and I mean, I'm working on it,
[2:47]but I'm not a person with baskets in my pantry. Have you ever had an organizer come to your house?
[2:53]Yeah, one time. I think she died on the way out. She was like, I don't know how to help you,
[2:58]but I think it's so interesting sometimes how our external lives look a certain way in our
[3:04]internal lives look so different and we're just trying and we have so much stuff. I kind of
[3:11]wanted to write a book about all the stuff, our emotional stuff, our clutter, all of those things.
[3:17]And then I was going to have her get a divorce and fall in love with her divorce attorney.
[3:23]Because I thought that was kind of interesting. Like it was an interesting way for someone,
[3:26]they find out a lot about you. I'm imagining in my head, my divorce attorney's reaction
[3:32]should he open up a book. Yes, I do. Be like, oh, I'm going to follow up with Sydney.
[3:40]But then I got so bored by the idea of a divorce attorney. I just thought that so
[3:45]anyways, it evolved into the guy she actually falls in love with is pretending to be her divorce
[3:51]attorney and he is a very, very loose skateboarding guy. Yeah, what was with the costumes?
[3:59]The divorce attorney costumes and the legal settings. He was loose. He came from a loose family
[4:05]and he was so angry at her husband and sort of the control that he had over her,
[4:11]that he wanted her husband to keep thinking that he really was incompetent when he was actually
[4:17]rather smart. But one way for people to think you're clueless is just always where it costs you,
[4:22]you know, dress crazy and they won't take you seriously. So I had a lot of fun with him. He's great.
[4:27]And why why the skateboard storyline? I like that. Have you ever been on a skateboard? No,
[4:31]if I was on a skateboard, you haven't even tried? No, I'd be dead. I'd be dead. I'm not a coordinated
[4:36]I've never been on a skateboard. I'm not balanced. And about I see an Instagram reel in your future
[4:42]on the do. All right. Yeah. All right. I'm just going to check my health insurance. But at least one
[4:47]hell of an armor. Yes. I don't know where. Oh, you know where that actually I do know where the
[4:52]whole skateboard idea is I for some reason was thinking of him as a goalie from fast times at
[4:58]Ridgemont High, but super attractive. I was thinking of him as that kind of like playing that kind
[5:04]of a role. And so I thought for some reason that guy had a skateboard. And I dug in to skateboarding
[5:10]and it's actually very Zen. There's a lot of like spiritual thought behind skateboarding and letting
[5:17]go and balancing and letting go of your fear and doing something that absolutely looks like it's
[5:23]impossible like it defies gravity. I don't know. I got into it. It was fun. I feel like are there any
[5:29]skateboard championships or something? Have you watched that? There should be. All right.
[5:34]Sean, why something? Maybe he skis. Okay. So these are just like some of the decisions you make
[5:40]on characters and setting and plot and blah, blah, blah. As I go, as you go. But the heart of the book
[5:46]is not about these things. These are just like the drapes on the house, right? Yes. The heart is
[5:50]the loss and the love and the finding your voice and finding your place and having the relationship
[5:58]that you deserve and all of that stuff. Yeah. Tell me more about that. It's a lifetime. That
[6:03]was like it's like 54 years of thought about things sort of went into this book. There's a lot
[6:09]about being a woman. And at first, you know, the decisions that we make, the things we let go of for
[6:16]other people to care for other people, the dreams we sort of release. There's a lot of that in
[6:22]this book. There's a lot of motherhood and the complexity of motherhood, which I for me, I find that
[6:29]the hardest thing about being a mother is letting my children fail, letting them struggle, letting them
[6:38]do something that I know is going to be a disaster so that they can feel the disaster and learn
[6:42]and move on. I talk a big game about that. I have a really hard time doing it to me too. I mean,
[6:47]I will call and remind my children about things a hundred times when the right thing is like
[6:53]they don't file a tax return today. You know what I mean? Like you just like it's just going to
[6:59]happen. That's very difficult. And I think that as we grow as people and certainly after we lose
[7:06]our parents, we have a different perspective on our parents where we thought maybe they were just
[7:11]nagging us all the time. But then we come to understand that that was the love they were showing us.
[7:17]And how lucky were we to have people who were stepping in in our lives like that.
[7:24]So there's two sides of it. It's too much, but also it's so beautiful the way we mother.
[7:29]You had a line in there that I was like, yes exactly. When you said something like
[7:33]the phone was ringing and you're like, well, I have to I always have to pick up. I'm a mom.
[7:36]Like I have to pick up. Like of course. No, there's no like, I'll just turn my phone off for 24 hours.
[7:42]And then you have one scene in the car not giving anything away, but she's on her way somewhere
[7:48]she wants to go. And it's almost there. And then something kid related happens. And she literally
[7:53]has to turn around, which is such a perfect sort of metaphor. Right. For like as we get closer,
[7:58]sometimes then we just go right back where we started. Exactly. Exactly. Because you're never
[8:04]going to not be there for your kids. Yeah. And my mom was super hands off. She was very much in
[8:11]1970s. Like hope this works out. You know, and I was the baby. So it was like, she was kind of
[8:17]done by the time I was growing up. And that that in and of itself was such a gift. Like the fact that
[8:23]I kind of tread water a lot on my own, I learned so much. And I kind of worked that into the book
[8:29]as sort of a contrast to Ali's mother who is like always stepping in in her marriage and always
[8:35]trying to make things seem like they're actually better so that Ali doesn't really feel the
[8:40]reality of her situation. Yeah. And then I was surprised. She gets to a point of almost like
[8:45]this little sliver of resentment. Like why did my mom make it okay? Yeah. Like why was that even the
[8:52]right thing? Was my mom doing the right thing? And I would argue she wasn't. I think that once
[8:58]people are adults, this is a big thing to say, I think we kind of have to leave them alone.
[9:03]You make your decisions. I'm going to make my decisions. If you ask me for my opinion,
[9:08]I'm going to give it to you. But we just have to let people's lives play out. There's a certain
[9:13]amount of control that goes with loving somebody. You know, you just want to keep them safe.
[9:18]Yep. And I, I don't know how healthy that is. I mean, in thinking about it, if you're a type,
[9:24]if you're the type of parent who thinks you have to make the best of this relationship, right?
[9:28]You're assuming that divorce is not really an option. Right. You go, you come at relationship
[9:34]problems with a different point of view. Yeah. And if you think it's sort of on the table.
[9:37]Yeah, that's true. Right. And I feel like her mom was more of the like, well, this is,
[9:42]this is what this is your lot in life. And here's how we're going to make it better.
[9:45]No, you made the decision and we're going to, we're going to make it the right decision.
[9:48]Yeah. But I think sometimes you need to let people like step back and let people actually
[9:53]feel the situation that they're in and find their voice. Yeah. I mean, if I write another book
[9:58]about a woman finding her voice.
[10:00]It's like I'm beating a dead horse.
[10:01]You're not, but I am.
[10:02]It's like, it's this idea that we really,
[10:06]we say so many things that are not the things we mean.
[10:09]And we don't say so many things that we need to say.
[10:12]I think there are never enough, and I say this
[10:14]because I feel like this is what I try to write out.
[10:16]There are never enough books about trying to find your voice
[10:19]because so many people don't know who they are.
[10:22]They feel like they can't speak up.
[10:24]And then they're not happy.
[10:25]And life just passes them by.
[10:27]Yeah.
[10:28]And like that's sad.
[10:29]And all you have is your voice.
[10:31]Yeah.
[10:31]All you have, I mean, thinking about blank also,
[10:34]it's like all you have is this ability to tell your story.
[10:39]And if nobody's going to hear it,
[10:40]it's the point of what we're doing.
[10:42]I agree.
[10:42]I agree.
[10:43]And we are literally writing.
[10:44]You are writing it in.
[10:47]Go back to your mom for two seconds.
[10:49]So you said she's just OK to sort of let you hang out there.
[10:52]But you're obviously, you have so much love for her
[10:54]as evidenced by this book.
[10:56]It's just you could feel it.
[10:57]Like I could read it and be like, OK, she misses her mom.
[11:01]Like, what is going on?
[11:03]This is like, this is the front.
[11:04]Yeah.
[11:05]And this, where is the real story?
[11:06]So just tell me about her as a person
[11:09]and your relationship together.
[11:10]Oh, my gosh.
[11:11]It was Barbara Walters.
[11:12]Hello.
[11:13]No, so my mom's been gone for 15 years.
[11:16]My mom was this just unbelievably vibrant, beautiful,
[11:22]funny, smart person.
[11:24]She had tons of fun.
[11:26]She was the most fun person in the world.
[11:29]And she had a bit of a faith in me
[11:31]as the much younger, youngest of her children.
[11:34]And how many were we were three?
[11:36]We're all five years apart, OK?
[11:38]Although my sister says we're four years apart,
[11:40]or five years apart.
[11:41]I think you can look that up somewhere.
[11:42]I think you can figure out what I'm talking with.
[11:46]Anyway, so I was the baby.
[11:48]She was doing other things.
[11:50]She had a faith in me.
[11:51]She was not hands-on in a practical way,
[11:53]but she was very hands-on emotionally.
[11:56]Like she always knew what was going on.
[11:58]She always was tuned in and available.
[12:02]She was an amazing person.
[12:04]And as you'll see in the book, Allie talks to her mom in the car.
[12:08]I talk to my mom in the car all the time, out loud.
[12:11]And there's an author's note in the back of this book
[12:15]just to explain to the reader that I'm not completely insane.
[12:18]I'm not hearing voices of my mother.
[12:21]But I do think that if somebody's loved you
[12:24]for a really long time,
[12:25]you sort of internalize that love.
[12:27]And you know what they would have said.
[12:30]You think when we're 100 years old,
[12:33]we're going to know like, oh, you know what my mom would have
[12:35]said in this situation?
[12:36]Because they've said it enough times.
[12:38]And that is still sort of alive.
[12:40]And so I feel my mom around me all the time.
[12:43]That's such a gift.
[12:44]Oh, it's just wonderful.
[12:46]With our kids, when we're not here, if when,
[12:50]that they would know what we would say,
[12:51]and it could comfort them even if we're not there.
[12:53]Yes.
[12:54]Wouldn't we want that?
[12:54]Yes.
[12:55]I'm sure that would make your mom happy.
[12:57]Oh, I'm sure.
[12:59]Yes.
[13:00]I think the whole thing would make her happy.
[13:01]I think everything is going on right now,
[13:04]including me sitting here with you.
[13:05]Would you agree with us?
[13:07]She would just be so happy.
[13:09]And you know, the flip side of that, not to turn it dark.
[13:11]But there are things that your parents say all the time
[13:14]that they probably shouldn't have said,
[13:16]that you will hear in your head forever.
[13:18]So which just also adds to the responsibility
[13:21]of being a parent.
[13:22]Yes.
[13:23]I don't say the wrong thing.
[13:24]Yes.
[13:25]Everything your parents say there should be like in asterisks,
[13:27]say, but I am from a different generation.
[13:30]For sure.
[13:31]For sure.
[13:32]This is the best advice.
[13:34]I remember my parents would give me advice.
[13:36]I shouldn't even type.
[13:36]But actually, I'm not even saying.
[13:39]But it was just like very antiquated.
[13:41]Of course.
[13:41]Of course you wouldn't say to a friend today.
[13:43]No, of course.
[13:44]But that's what they knew.
[13:45]That's how they grew up soon.
[13:46]Yeah.
[13:47]And then there's some advice that's timeless.
[13:48]That's true.
[13:49]Yes.
[13:50]Oh.
[13:50]And yeah, you don't have to say,
[13:52]how did your mom pass away?
[13:53]Breast cancer.
[13:54]Oh, yeah.
[13:55]Sorry.
[13:56]Well, the love of the mother's love,
[13:58]it's like a 360 mother's love in the book.
[14:01]But then there's so much sexy fun as well.
[14:05]It's like the two things.
[14:07]Best of all world.
[14:07]The best of all worlds.
[14:09]I'm also wondering, I haven't met your husband.
[14:11]But how is he feeling about all of this romance and longing
[14:15]and lust and everything going on in your books?
[14:18]He's like, into it.
[14:19]That's a great question.
[14:20]My husband is probably the most private person you'll meet.
[14:24]OK.
[14:24]So my doing what I'm doing right now
[14:27]is literally his worst nightmare.
[14:29]So if I get up in front of a crowd of people to speak,
[14:32]he's sweating in the back.
[14:33]Like, oh, God, please don't let her have to do this.
[14:36]Like, it's horrible.
[14:38]On the other hand, I think he thinks this is really fun.
[14:40]And he knows that this is the dream that I've had my whole life.
[14:45]This book and Norah goes off script.
[14:47]He read them both.
[14:49]And he said, oh,
[14:50]I'm feeling really emotional.
[14:52]Like, there are a lot of inside jokes about our marriage
[14:55]in this book.
[14:56]So I think he thinks it's fun.
[14:57]I think he connects to it.
[14:59]What's an inside joke that we didn't know is inside the pantry?
[15:02]OK, I mean, I honestly have like six boxes of cornstarch.
[15:06]In my pantry, I just keep buying it
[15:08]because I need a tablespoon every year.
[15:11]I just, I'm not organized about a lot of things.
[15:15]He's also messy, so doesn't bother him.
[15:16]But yes, no, there's tons of them.
[15:19]Also, maybe cornstarch goes bad.
[15:21]Maybe you're being too hard on yourself.
[15:23]First of all, maybe it's not good for us at all.
[15:25]Maybe we should just get rid of it.
[15:26]Yeah.
[15:27]Can't rid of it at all.
[15:27]Yeah.
[15:28]And then that then it wouldn't be funny in the book.
[15:30]No, I know.
[15:31]I know the pantry.
[15:32]So when you're writing, because it makes me laugh
[15:35]when I'm reading your books, like it is always like,
[15:37]I know I will get, like, I feel like you have a recipe going.
[15:41]And I reliably know I am going to feel moved.
[15:44]I am going to chuckle.
[15:46]There's going to be some sort of relationship thing
[15:48]that's very exciting.
[15:50]And there's like a bigger meaning to it, too.
[15:52]And then I will leave your books feeling also satisfied
[15:55]in every single way.
[15:56]So tell me about the laughter factor and the jokes
[16:01]because you have this kind of dry sense of humor.
[16:03]But it's so funny.
[16:05]And all your characters have it because it's, you know,
[16:08]that's your funny voice.
[16:09]And even your Instagram comments, like, they're funny.
[16:13]And it's such a you thing, like nobody else jokes
[16:16]in the same way.
[16:17]It's so distinctive.
[16:19]So tell me about that.
[16:20]Wow.
[16:20]Well, it's a really nice compliment.
[16:22]Thank you.
[16:23]And I really, really mean it.
[16:24]I really wish there was a recipe.
[16:26]I think that when humor lands in my books
[16:30]or something that I write, it's because I haven't thought
[16:33]it through.
[16:34]If I stop to think about, if I'm typing really fast,
[16:38]the humor is better.
[16:40]If I try to be smart, everything kind of falls apart.
[16:43]Interesting.
[16:44]So maybe some of that just, I don't know,
[16:46]maybe it comes from my subconscious or something.
[16:51]I've really wish there was a recipe, though.
[16:53]I'm writing a book right now and I'm trying
[16:55]to get the recipe right.
[16:56]And I find that sometimes I'm laughing.
[16:59]And then I'll start writing a chapter
[17:01]and I'll get really bored, which I know for sure
[17:04]means that the chapter I'm writing is really boring.
[17:08]So then I have to go back and delete that entire chapter
[17:12]and start writing something that I start getting
[17:15]that good feeling again.
[17:16]OK, tell me about the next book.
[17:20]So she's a child star.
[17:22]OK.
[17:22]And she's trying to make it in Hollywood as an adult.
[17:27]Yeah.
[17:28]I like that.
[17:29]I like a lot of things about it.
[17:31]A couple things I don't like.
[17:32]But I don't have to be finished until August.
[17:34]So it will get there.
[17:36]That's not so far.
[17:37]No, it's not so far.
[17:39]And I have a few things to do between now and then.
[17:41]I like to launch this entire book.
[17:42]Like launch this book.
[17:43]Yes.
[17:44]So when are you going to do that?
[17:45]Are you stressed?
[17:47]No.
[17:48]No, stress.
[17:49]You know it'll get done.
[17:50]It'll get done.
[17:50]Yeah.
[17:51]It'll get done.
[17:52]It's actually something I really like writing.
[17:54]So maybe it's convenient.
[17:56]Which is great.
[17:56]Yes.
[17:57]I mean, that's such a blessing because if there's something
[17:59]you have to do with a ton of, it's nice if you like it.
[18:02]So I will, it'll start taking on a life of its own.
[18:07]It's just started to take on a life of its own.
[18:09]And then it gets fun.
[18:10]And it'll get done.
[18:12]OK.
[18:12]This is my mantra.
[18:15]I know I just, I'm trying to write another book.
[18:17]And at the top, I had to put something like, this is all blank.
[18:20]But it will be filled with words.
[18:22]It will be a novel.
[18:22]And I can do this.
[18:24]Because every time I open it, I'm like, I don't think I can do this.
[18:26]Yeah.
[18:27]You know?
[18:27]Like somehow, where are the words going to come from?
[18:29]But they're all going to land there.
[18:30]They're going to like, like fish in a net, like in the brain.
[18:35]They're going to come.
[18:36]So we're going to, where are they?
[18:37]Yeah.
[18:38]I really, what did Carly Fortune, what was the word she put on her computer?
[18:42]It was like joy or fun or something for her last book.
[18:46]And every time she sat down to write, she just focused on that word.
[18:50]But this isn't going to be work.
[18:52]This is going to be fun today.
[18:53]Great.
[18:54]And then she wrote a really great book.
[18:56]Again.
[18:56]So hater.
[18:57]No, she's the worst.
[19:01]Oh, I guess you've said in the past, you have like a whole routine
[19:05]of what you do for your writing day.
[19:06]Are you still upholding the routine and can you share it again?
[19:09]This here's my ideal routine.
[19:10]It's like when people talk about their exercise,
[19:12]routine, you know, my ideal routine is I get up really early.
[19:16]And I get up before my brain kicks in and starts thinking
[19:21]about sprinklers or whatever my brain thinks about.
[19:24]And I write until my household wakes up.
[19:27]And then I engage with my household.
[19:28]I walk my dog.
[19:29]I walk my body.
[19:30]And then I sit back down to write.
[19:33]I find that if I can have a huge chunk of time to write,
[19:37]I'm a lot better off this weekend.
[19:39]My family was gone.
[19:40]And I wrote for three days straight.
[19:42]Well, and I cracked the code.
[19:44]I was like, oh, I think I understand what the story is.
[19:47]I have a really hard time getting there in an hour or in 90
[19:50]minutes.
[19:50]And I have friends who write in coffee shops or, you know,
[19:53]in the car between things.
[19:55]I just, I can't, I can't focus the way I like to focus in that
[19:59]short.
[20:00]amount of time. But I wonder how good it is in the coffee shop. Do you think they keep those words?
[20:06]I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I mean, if I I can't do that either. There's nothing
[20:10]that's why I'm just going back and writing. I really think people do it in such a totally different
[20:15]way. And you know, I have I have friends who write a chapter and then they perfect the chapter
[20:21]before they get to the next chapter. I write garbage to get to the next chapter just to get
[20:26]words. I write all the garbage and then I go back and I'm like, oh, let's clean up the garbage.
[20:31]It's just a different process. When did you know that you were finally going to achieve this
[20:37]life-long dream of doing what you're doing right now? When were you like, okay, like actually
[20:42]this is happening and I might be able to keep doing this. And this is really cool. I think when I sold
[20:48]Norahgos off script and it was enthusiastic like it was a we want this book. And then I talked to my
[20:55]editor for the first time and she was just a genius. And I thought, is this the person I've been
[21:02]waiting for my entire life? You know, it's like you meet the man at the bar. I was like, she's the one
[21:07]and I just couldn't believe it because I wrote that book during COVID. I told you this 100 times.
[21:12]I never thought that was going to get published. I thought, you know, I'd probably be dead by the
[21:15]end of the summer. I might as well write this book. And so I just didn't have this like that
[21:21]wasn't part of my career plan. I was just writing a book because I liked her right.
[21:26]That's it. Right. Isn't that the secret? Like if you don't like doing it? Yeah, I don't know.
[21:30]Don't tell my kids. You know, they're all like incalculus. You can't tell kids like just follow
[21:35]your bliss because there's so many things you have to do that you're not going to enjoy.
[21:40]But hopefully you're going to end up coming back to the thing that you loved whatever that is.
[21:45]And your kids are still in the house. I thought they were older. No, they are. So two live in the city.
[21:49]Okay, they're out of college. And then one is a senior in high school. So I almost have everybody
[21:54]out of the house, which is another thing to do this summer. But then you can go back to the
[21:59]organizer. Yes. Yes. I think you were going to have organizers like the rowing themselves on
[22:06]you volunteering to clean out your pantry. Okay. Okay. Well, Mark, my word, I will pray for all of
[22:11]those people and for their sanity. So I mean, one last thing with all of the stuff and it's on
[22:20]more of like a, you know, a bittersweet note is this notion that all of our stuff is going to have
[22:26]to be cleaned out. Right? Whether it's the couple that's moving down to Florida for a while
[22:32]and you have to dismantle their whole house and sell it in like piece by piece. Or if it's just
[22:37]the belonging, somebody you love or the Phyllis next door and all of her stuff in the books. Like,
[22:43]that is the condition of all of us that we choose to not think about every single day. But if
[22:48]you've ever packed anyone up after they've gone, you know that the stuff becomes a big thing. And
[22:55]it will happen. And I think about that whenever I, something comes in, I'm like, this is just one
[23:01]more thing. Like, what are we going to do with this? Yeah. You know? So it's right. How do we live
[23:05]accumulating stuff and keeping that all the meaningful stuff with the time we have to like,
[23:11]go through the memory boxes and all of that. So I don't know. I feel like there's a little of all
[23:15]of that. And I think about through it. I think that you also hit on really basic, the basic question
[23:21]of this book is you buy something and eventually it's going to go into a landfill. Right? You get a dog
[23:29]that dog's going to die someday. You have a summer romance. It's going to be Labor Day. You're
[23:35]going to have to say goodbye. So our life is so much about the gathering of things and the
[23:41]letting go of things. And you know, maybe the secret is the joy that we hang onto in, you know,
[23:47]in the interim. But it, yeah, it's a lot of stuff that we accumulate. Yeah. Well, it's
[23:53]better to have loved and lost, we say, as I'm staring at my dog. So yes, no, God, the dog thing.
[23:59]I mean, I really like it's the dogs, it's the dogs played a big role. And the whole thing of,
[24:04]are you willing to give your love for something that you know won't last forever?
[24:08]That's right. And we have to. That's what you just have to.
[24:10]I have a friend who adopts dying dogs. Oh, she falls in love with them and she ushers them,
[24:16]you know, for the last couple of years of their lives. And it's joy. It's really beautiful.
[24:20]It's really beautiful. Any last advice for authors who are trying to do what you do?
[24:25]I know. Yes. You know, I've been thinking so much about this, and I've probably been saying this
[24:29]forever, but I'm really thinking about it now. Don't write the book that everybody wants to read.
[24:35]Don't try to write the next Taylor Jenkins read. Don't, don't write that book.
[24:40]Write the book that you're supposed to write. Write the book that you're dying to read or that
[24:46]feels that gets you up early in the morning to start writing. Because that's the book that's
[24:51]going to connect to you and it's going to ring true to people. Yeah, we can't just have one voice
[24:55]out there. We can't all be mimicking each other's voices. So you got to write your own story.
[25:00]It's going back to what we were just saying. Yes, stories about women finding their voices.
[25:03]That's right. Full circle. That's right. Boy, I'm a one-trick pony.
[25:09]Well, congratulations. I am just, this book is so good. Thank you. Oh my gosh. I don't even know
[25:15]what to recommend more. I love Nora so much. And obviously, you're out there too. Thank you.
[25:19]All right, congratulations. Thank you, Zippy. Thanks for listening. Two moms don't have time
[25:25]to read books. If you love it, please leave a review and follow us on social at Zippy Owens
[25:31]and at Zippy Readers.