Celebrity guest!! Paul Scheer, JOYFUL RECOLLECTIONS OF TRAUMA
[0:02]Hi, I'm Zippy Owens, and I am the host of this podcast, Mom's Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[0:08]I am also a newly minted USA Today best-selling author of the novel, Blake.
[0:14]I've created a whole community of book lovers around this podcast, a publishing company,
[0:19]reading retreats, a bookstore, and more. Learn more at ZippyMedia.com or follow
[0:24]me on social at Zippy Owens or join the community at Zippy Readers.
[0:31]Paul Sheer is the author of joyful recollections of Trauma, the memoir which hit the
[0:37]New York Times Bestseller list. Paul is a comedian, actor, filmmaker, and podcaster.
[0:42]Paul is best known for his roles in FX's The League, by the way I've watched every episode of
[0:47]that show, and Showtime's comedy series Black Monday. He also co-created and starred in MTV's
[0:52]Human Giant, and Adult Swim series NTSF SD SUV, and has decided recurring roles on ABC's
[1:00]Fresh Off the Boat and HBO's Veep. Away from his acting work, he also co-hosts two
[1:06]film discussion podcasts. How did this get made alongside his wife, June Diane Raphael,
[1:11]and longtime collaborator, Jason Mancugas, and Unspooled with film critic Amy Nicholson.
[1:18]He currently lives in Los Angeles. Welcome, Paul. Thank you so much for coming.
[1:22]on mom's turn out time to read books to discuss joyful recollections of trauma. Your best
[1:27]selling book, congratulations. Yeah, thank you so much. I want to be on your book club.
[1:33]I mean, this is like, truly, that's the biggest honor I could possibly be.
[1:35]Paul I loved it. It's so good. Oh, thank you so much.
[1:40]Yeah, it's, you know, not everybody has the bravery or the introspection to say like,
[1:46]I'm going to take out all of the cabinets. It's like all my secret stuff and decode them
[1:49]from the entire world. And as somebody who has like 20,000 memory boxes, like scattered everywhere,
[1:55]I've hit it to that very much. I'm like, who's going to know about this ticket or why it's
[1:59]important to me? I know, would they make me feel so good. Like I had this collection of boxes,
[2:05]you know, and they really do hold everything from like a kindergarten report card all the way to
[2:12]like what my son brought home this year in art projects. It's like little things, not everything.
[2:17]And people are like, oh, you're a hoarder. I'm like, I'm not a hoarder. They're mementos.
[2:20]They are, they are slightly organized. It's not just like everything goes in a box.
[2:25]Well, before the iPhone, I feel like there wasn't, we couldn't like take a quick picture,
[2:30]or it would end up in an album. And that's like my memory now. But before it was a thing from it,
[2:35]right? Well, what's kind of so crazy about my iPhone too is I never go back and look at those
[2:40]pictures. Thank God they have that wallpaper that shuffles through faces now of my kids. Like,
[2:45]that's amazing. I'm like, oh my gosh, I haven't looked at that picture 10 years. Like,
[2:49]you know, those are, we take so many things and we don't like look back at them. I feel like
[2:55]like photo albums were such a big deal. Like in my childhood, like, oh, we look through the photo
[2:59]album. Here we are. We remember this moment. And now it's a sort of like, we captured it,
[3:04]but we don't log it in any way. Yeah. And when they do want to sit and look, I'm like,
[3:08]get off my phone. Let's go. Come on. Exactly. Yeah.
[3:11]It's all one big waste. And so we go back to cat, you know, and I have little ones for my kids
[3:18]too that I've started for them. So they have their own memory boxes. You must have done this too.
[3:21]I of course have done this. I tried to get them into it by making them Nike boxes.
[3:27]Oh, this is kind of cool. You know, I'm trying to get them on board with it. They do like the whole
[3:32]stuff. You know, but I feel like my kids are so different. They're, you know, they don't like
[3:37]movies. They are. I mean, they like movies just fine. But what they're into, everything
[3:43]seems a little bit, I mean, it's all I think it's bad, but they don't have that like that quality
[3:48]of like, oh, I want a movie ticket or I remember this thing. It's like, no, we saw it. We did it.
[3:52]Let's move on. Like, you know, like, and it's, you know, for me, I guess because there was no iPad.
[3:57]I spent a lot of time just being like, oh, that's my Indiana Jones and Temple of Doom
[4:00]movie ticket. I have that on my wall because I'm remembering I want to go see that movie. You know,
[4:04]there was a, everything felt a little bit more special.
[4:07]Well, having read your, now I feel like I know you, which of course I don't, but now that I know
[4:11]about your childhood, I could psychoanalyze and say, you know, this place did.
[4:15]Moments of escape in, in other ways. If dark and isolated, you know, you hiding all the time and
[4:21]yet here was this like multi-color world. And of course, why wouldn't you want to remember it?
[4:27]Yeah. I think, you know, as a kid, we grow up in whatever your background is, you know,
[4:32]like I wrote about in my book, you know, I came out of this like kind of abusive household
[4:37]where we were kind of held captive by this evil stepfather. And, you know, you find your own
[4:43]ways out, but also at the same time, it's all mixed together, right? Like, you know, it's like
[4:47]there are these things like your play is kind of based around this situation of your house.
[4:55]So it's like you are still like, like other kids are still applying the probably the same way I am,
[4:59]just the stakes are different, right? But I don't know that the stakes are different because
[5:02]I'm just a kid. I don't know what's going on in your house or what's going on in the house next to
[5:06]that. That's true. Like, we could be speaking French that could probably be. Yeah, exactly. Yeah,
[5:11]you don't know. It's like everything is normal until until you get older. And then you start
[5:15]telling, I mean, that's really how the book started for me was I do this podcast called How
[5:20]Did the Skip Made with Jason Manzook is my wife, June, Diane Rayfield. And I would tell these
[5:24]stories about my childhood and the look of shock on their face. I probably tell these stories.
[5:29]I'm like, wait, that's normal though, right? Isn't that normal? And they're like, no, it's not.
[5:34]I'm like, oh, wait, you know, even I don't know if you ever found this, but I, as an adult,
[5:41]you get your own doctor and you go to your doctor and doctor, like, oh, what, you know,
[5:44]tell me your backgrounds and this and that. And I realized that like, even what my parents told me
[5:48]about like how certain relatives died were like sugar coated, right? Like, oh, he, you know,
[5:54]he died of a broken heart. It's like, well, no, he had like, he had heart disease. Like,
[5:59]he smoked too much, you know, like these, like weird things that you just never, you never,
[6:03]no parent follows up with. Like, oh, everyone had told you that. That was actually a total lie.
[6:09]Yeah, my backtrack here about the people. Give me the groceries. Oh, my gosh. Well, it's easy to
[6:15]sort of joke past. Well, anything, I guess, but the abuse in your house was significant. I mean,
[6:21]this guy hunter was horrific. I mean, horrific. And the moment where your mom was finally like,
[6:28]okay, let's do it. Let's just go. And she did it. I was, I wanted to like stand up in the audience
[6:33]and start clapping. That is hard to do. And many women never get to do them. They just don't,
[6:39]they're stuck forever. And at least you guys, you know, not at least obviously it was really bad,
[6:43]but I'm glad that she took you, you got out of it.
[6:47]You know, my mom is a pretty amazing person. She, you know, she's in her seventies.
[6:52]She retired and moved out to LA to spend more times with her grandkids and then immediately got
[6:58]a job that was more powerful than the job that she had in New York before she retired. And she's
[7:03]like back and doing it. And she's one of those people who I think is always, you know, she loves
[7:09]working. She's really smart. And like, you know, part of this too, I think, you know, people would
[7:14]would say, like, well, how did your, how did your mom let this happen? Or how did your pair,
[7:18]like, you know, I think that you can be incredibly smart. You can be incredibly, even successful,
[7:24]but you can still get caught in these traps, right? It's a weird thing where you don't want to
[7:29]appear to be weak. Even that term abuse is like something I had a hard time wrestling with like
[7:34]labeling abuse. And you know, so I think it's very easy to like look on the outside and say,
[7:40]oh, she should have been able to do this or that. But what I, I, what I like to kind of say about
[7:44]my mom is that she did. She took her a beat, but we got out. We did this thing. And, and, and that
[7:51]sometimes what she did to get us out, you know, to work two jobs and kind of sneak us out in the,
[7:58]in the middle of the night in a certain way. I'm just blown away by. And, you know, as a parent now,
[8:04]I think I have such so much more empathy. I love my mom. I have a great relationship with my mom,
[8:09]my mom. But, you know, you know, like also all the things that a parent has to juggle because
[8:14]we talked about like, you know, you're, you're trying to make it okay too. Like you like,
[8:17]my mom was trying to make it okay in this time of insanity. And that's, and that's really hard
[8:23]as a parent because you really can't show emotions. Like you can, but you have to always still be
[8:29]the leader. Yep. I always think about the movie life is beautiful. Oh, yeah. Now he would distract
[8:34]his daughter with like games that I didn't see. You can really, you know, the power you have
[8:38]as a parent to get your kid through anything, even if it's something that you've inadvertently
[8:42]sort of landed them in. It's really significant. Well, they're always looking to you. You know,
[8:48]I think it's this thing that's so you forget like how not open-minded, but how like how the kids
[8:58]will believe you. They're, they're there for you. They want, they, you know, and that's,
[9:02]that's really, I, as I've had kids, you realize the power of that and how it can be kind of
[9:08]construed in a different way and how certain things can balloon. My kids love Mr. Beast. I don't know
[9:13]if your kids love Mr. Beast. I have one. We've ordered the hamburgers on like, you know,
[9:19]you're disgusting. Okay. We're, we're wearing the sweatshirts. We have the feasts and you know, watch a
[9:25]lot of Mr. Beast chocolate bars. Oh, yes. A hundred percent. So my, they're watching one video and
[9:30]it was like, I hired an assassin to come and get me and if he can find me, he'll get a million
[9:35]dollars. Right. And I were driving because they're watching in the car and I said, uh, my youngest son
[9:41]who's seven was like, dad, what's an assassin? And now normally I would think about this before I
[9:46]say anything. I go, oh, just like, it's like when you hire someone to kill you. And it goes and
[9:52]we're driving things were happening going quick and I'm putting them down to bed and he was like,
[9:57]hey, I could tell you it was nervous. I was like, what, what's going on?
[10:00]He's like, I'm worried the assassin is going to kill me.
[10:03]I'm like, oh, no, no, no, no, there's like,
[10:06]there might be a sats to kill you.
[10:07]And you realize like, oh my gosh,
[10:09]I just said this thing so cavalierly.
[10:10]And it just blew open his world of like, oh, yeah,
[10:13]you can hire people to kill someone.
[10:17]And then of course his older brother,
[10:18]Stixis said that, and he's like, no one wants to kill you.
[10:20]Maybe dad.
[10:21]And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no one is no one.
[10:25]And like, it was like,
[10:29]but like those little details are so much to take in.
[10:32]And there are things that we say so kind of cavalierly,
[10:35]because of course, I know what an assassin is.
[10:38]But they've never heard it before.
[10:40]Yeah.
[10:41]In the chaos, the questions and answers, you know.
[10:43]Oh, oh, yeah, it's pretty good.
[10:45]I mean, I mean, I am walking on eggshells in this house
[10:49]because we were having lunch yesterday.
[10:52]My wife was away and it was just me and the two boys.
[10:54]And in the middle of a lunch, no distractions.
[10:57]My youngest goes to Santa real, and I go, what?
[11:01]And I was like, I'm sorry, he goes to Santa real.
[11:05]I was like, huh, I was like, that's interesting.
[11:08]So now I'm like, I don't know how to get,
[11:10]like I can't not get out of this question.
[11:12]You know what I'm so trapped by it?
[11:14]And I'm like, I mean, what do you think?
[11:17]What's real?
[11:18]You know, like I'm trying not to like overtly lie,
[11:22]but I also feel like lunch is not the perfect moment
[11:24]for this conversation even.
[11:26]But you're just trying to like weave bob
[11:27]and weave my friends and child psychiatrist
[11:30]and her psychologist and she said to me,
[11:32]when my wife's father died.
[11:33]We were like, never a strike.
[11:34]How do we deal with this?
[11:35]Like what do we say to the kids are too young?
[11:37]Like my youngest at that point or my oldest was like only
[11:41]like one and a half, two years old,
[11:43]but he understood enough, you know, he could talk.
[11:45]And she said, you know, you say like be honest, but brief.
[11:48]And I always try to be like, that's I always try to be
[11:51]like just honest and brief, honest and brief.
[11:53]And you know, because it's like the minute you start
[11:56]concocting a world, that's when you get in the trouble.
[11:59]It's so true.
[12:00]I accidentally ended up telling them that the tooth fairy
[12:02]didn't exist like as we were getting onto a flight.
[12:05]And then the time, my daughter just sat there crying.
[12:08]And now like fast forward to last week
[12:10]where she lost another tooth and she was just like,
[12:12]I lost my tooth at school.
[12:13]Can you just give me a few bucks?
[12:15]And I was like, I'm not giving you,
[12:16]I'm not paying you to lose your teeth.
[12:18]Right, that's right.
[12:19]But aren't you the tooth fairy?
[12:20]And I was like, it doesn't work like that.
[12:22]My kids, we brought them to Walt Disney World.
[12:26]And and my kids are so excited to meet like Woody and Buzz.
[12:30]And you know, there's something really kind of magical
[12:31]about you watch these movies as a kid.
[12:36]And you see that their toys, right?
[12:38]Like Woody and Buzz are toys.
[12:39]But then you go to Walt Disney World
[12:41]and they're walking around in their bigger than humans.
[12:43]You know, in their big suits and stuff.
[12:45]And my kids are so excited.
[12:47]They're meeting Woody and Buzz.
[12:47]They're talking about Woody and Buzz.
[12:49]But there's like this connective.
[12:50]Like they're not realizing, well,
[12:51]that doesn't make any sense.
[12:52]And my kid was so excited.
[12:53]He's like, oh my gosh, I got, he was talking about Woody.
[12:56]And my wife's like, yeah, but those are just people in suits.
[12:58]And I watch him go away.
[13:00]And I was like, I was like,
[13:01]you know, because I wasn't even trying to like undercut it.
[13:04]She was just kind of saying it.
[13:05]Like yeah, but they're, they're just people in suits.
[13:07]Like it's not like, she wasn't ill intent.
[13:10]You know, but it's like, oh, I guess it's like,
[13:13]it's so weird.
[13:14]It's such a weird world.
[13:15]And you don't want to be that person that spoils it.
[13:17]But I guess there's always going to be some kid,
[13:19]some world, some thing that spoils it in some way.
[13:22]Well, it's amazing that they actually live in a world
[13:25]where they think magical things fly into the window
[13:28]and leave to grab your teeth anyway.
[13:30]I mean, and then I'm like, and I'm trying to rationalize
[13:32]like tying your shoes with this person.
[13:33]Do you know, like all these other things?
[13:35]Like this is what they believe in good faith.
[13:37]I know it's like, it's so interesting
[13:38]because I want to keep, I'm a big believer
[13:41]in like keeping imagination alive.
[13:44]Like whatever, you know, whatever that is.
[13:46]It's like, it doesn't mean that we have to be like,
[13:49]totally in a fantasy world.
[13:51]But it's like, I think that like as kids are growing up
[13:55]in this culture, the imaginations are not being used
[13:59]as much as they used to be.
[14:00]Or at least I like, I felt like there's a lot of
[14:01]downtime as a kid, you know, and it's like,
[14:03]and my, I was taught as director who I love.
[14:06]And his name is David Lowry.
[14:07]And he instructed movies like very artistic movies
[14:10]like the green night, but he also directed Pete Stragg
[14:12]and the live action on which I love is so beautiful.
[14:15]And we were talking about like the importance of empathy.
[14:18]I'm like, when we grew up like these movies
[14:19]like taught us empathy, ET dies.
[14:21]It's sad.
[14:23]And I feel like kids don't have like empathy
[14:25]and imagination the same way
[14:26]because it's sort of like entertainment's being pulled
[14:28]in a different way.
[14:29]They have access to things in a different way.
[14:30]Even if you take away screens, there's like,
[14:32]there's a knowledge that's just, yeah, they're, yeah.
[14:35]Like you don't, like if I wondered about something
[14:38]and I have to go to the library and get a book
[14:39]and figure out what it is, you know, it's like,
[14:41]you can now ask your parent as a phone deck.
[14:42]What's happening there?
[14:44]What's the biggest building?
[14:45]You know, and you don't have time to like,
[14:47]ideate on it or whatever and just think about like,
[14:50]what could this be?
[14:50]Sometimes I'm like, can you just give me 30 seconds
[14:53]for my brain to work?
[14:54]If my brain can be intimate, then let's look.
[14:57]Yeah, exactly.
[14:58]I know, like that is so important.
[15:01]I feel like to like try to put away the phones
[15:05]and just think about it.
[15:07]Have a discussion about it.
[15:08]Like it's like often it's like the fun of it.
[15:11]Like I think back I'm like, parties I was at as a,
[15:14]like a high schooler, like we're talking about,
[15:15]oh yeah, remember that movie that person was in that?
[15:17]No, they were in that.
[15:18]And you know, you're not exactly right,
[15:20]but it's part of the conversation.
[15:22]It's not about, we're not writing a, you know, a research paper.
[15:26]You know, we're just having a conversation.
[15:27]And it's sort of like sometimes a phone can kill that group
[15:31]thing.
[15:32]But and the amazing feeling when you actually think of it.
[15:35]Oh, it's truly something.
[15:37]What competes with that?
[15:38]No, it's a Google search for getting it.
[15:39]No, I know, yeah.
[15:41]Towards the end of your book, you realize thanks to Twitter
[15:44]that you have ADHD in your wife's like,
[15:46]yeah, of course you do.
[15:47]I thought that was so interesting.
[15:49]I always wonder if I have ADHD.
[15:50]And now I keep reading all these books.
[15:51]And I'm like, hmm, how did you really self-diagnose?
[15:55]And was that a joke or do you really have that?
[15:57]Or how do you feel about it?
[15:57]No, it's definitely not a joke.
[15:59]The way I came across it was on Twitter,
[16:02]which, you know, it was a funny way to kind of find out
[16:04]because, you know, every doctor that worked their salt
[16:06]will be like, don't go on WebMD.
[16:08]Don't do this, don't research your own thing.
[16:10]But this person, you know, kind of accused me of having it.
[16:14]And I was like, I don't, of course I don't.
[16:17]And I just started to, but I started to like kind of look
[16:21]in on Twitter like I typed in ADHD.
[16:23]It was like ADHD awareness day.
[16:25]I think happened at the same time.
[16:26]So it's trending.
[16:27]So this is looking.
[16:28]I started reading stories of other people.
[16:30]And I was like, oh, I do that.
[16:32]I do that.
[16:33]Because I think what I thought ADHD was,
[16:35]and it's not gonna make cousin about this the other day,
[16:36]was like being hyper, oh, I'm so hyper on this and that.
[16:39]And it's not that, you know, I think it's like,
[16:41]we have this like weird idea of like these things,
[16:44]it's, you know, they can't sit still, they're this,
[16:46]they're that, they're this.
[16:48]And the truth is, it manifests in so many different ways.
[16:51]I'm dyslexics to a certain degree.
[16:53]I can read, I love reading,
[16:55]I went to reading teacher, kind of got better at reading.
[16:57]When I was a kid, all these things kind of all add together.
[17:01]So I started like Twitter as my first entry point.
[17:03]I was like, okay, and I went to my therapist.
[17:05]And I was like, it's weird I had this thing.
[17:07]And I, I, I, I, I think I may, I may be that, you know,
[17:10]and my wife was like, yeah, you are.
[17:13]She's like, well, I'm gonna give you two books,
[17:14]read these two books and what do you think?
[17:16]And so I read these two books.
[17:17]And it was like reading, like the instructions of my life.
[17:21]I was like, oh my God, there was like one chapter in one of them,
[17:26]where it was like, you know, click yes to whatever you agree to.
[17:29]And it was like 100 questions.
[17:31]And I feel like 80 of them.
[17:32]I was like, yes, I was wild.
[17:34]And then she's like, well, I think now you should go and see
[17:37]about psychiatrists and they can talk to you.
[17:40]And, and that's when I kind of went and got officially diagnosed
[17:44]as that, which was really interesting because, you know,
[17:48]there's that phrase, you know, you don't want to go through life
[17:51]with a, like a horse with blinders on.
[17:53]But when I started getting treatment for this,
[17:56]it was like, I was going through life with like a horse with
[17:59]blinders on and it was, and that was a good thing.
[18:02]It was like, oh, I'm able to focus.
[18:03]And, and my life has been, I've been incredibly productive.
[18:06]I've been lucky to be where I am and what I do.
[18:09]But it felt like my building, like I was a building that was constantly
[18:14]under construction, like scaffolding was all around it.
[18:17]I'm making sure it was held up.
[18:18]I had my systems in place to be productive.
[18:20]But wow, there was no substitute for actually like literally treating it.
[18:24]It was like a night and day difference.
[18:26]And then there's like this immediate regret of like, wow, what if I had this
[18:31]when I was in college or, or really at any given point?
[18:35]Well, and then all the people who are now so lucky that they get it treated
[18:38]early. Thanks to yeah, well, that's, that's the kind of crazy thing.
[18:42]I've seen a lot of people really diagnosing themselves lately.
[18:45]And I think, I think what we're kind of realizing on a certain level, too,
[18:48]is like, you know, there's just more research done.
[18:51]More people are, are a little bit more introspective looking at themselves,
[18:54]seeing what they're doing.
[18:55]Like, you know, brain health is as important as any other kind of, you know,
[18:58]the thing in our body. Yeah, and it's genetic and I can see it in my family
[19:03]very clearly, you know, it's like, so I don't know.
[19:05]Yeah, I've been fascinated by like that everybody looking each other.
[19:08]And it was the one chapter I wanted to leave out of the book because I look,
[19:13]I love reading. I love memoirs.
[19:15]And I've read good memoirs, I've read bad memoirs, but like pizza,
[19:19]they're all pretty good. But like, but I, there was something about it where I was like,
[19:22]it felt to me like, oh, my, just putting this, I wasn't.
[19:27]But it felt like, oh, is this a chapter about how I have ADHD, that's my hurdle.
[19:31]I'm going to get over it. And there was something about it that I felt uncomfortable
[19:35]sharing. And I was about to take it out.
[19:38]And my wife was like, why are you going to take that?
[19:40]And my publisher was like, why are you taking that out?
[19:41]I was like, cause I just felt like it's like a, like, you know, it's too like,
[19:44]and I think part of it was I hadn't really told anybody about it.
[19:48]I kept it really to myself. It was kind of fresher than the other things I
[19:52]talked about. And what I came to realize and now that the book is out,
[19:57]is, wow, it was an.
[20:00]I'd have left it in because it's helped partners,
[20:02]identify other partners.
[20:03]It's helped people go like,
[20:04]oh my gosh, I have that same thing.
[20:06]And I think I don't wanna pat myself on the back,
[20:09]but I will say that.
[20:10]I'll pat you back.
[20:11]All right, a lot of people,
[20:12]I think it was a thing that goes like,
[20:14]I think a lot of people will look at me and go,
[20:17]well, you're very productive.
[20:19]You've done a lot of things.
[20:20]You're not what I think,
[20:22]like someone who has ADHD has.
[20:25]And it allows them to kind of look at themselves.
[20:28]It's not like, oh, I didn't, I couldn't pay my bills.
[20:30]I never got up.
[20:31]I was depressed, I was this, I didn't get anything done.
[20:34]And I think that, I don't know,
[20:35]there's something about like,
[20:36]I've talked to a few very productive people
[20:38]who are like, I feel like I have this.
[20:40]It's really helpful to me.
[20:41]I've like, I have a good friend who got tested
[20:43]and he's like thrilled.
[20:46]And yeah, so I think that that's important too.
[20:48]I think that there's a stigma around all of this.
[20:51]Like what ADHD looks like,
[20:52]what it is, who do the type of people it is, they are.
[20:55]So yeah, so I'm glad I added it in,
[20:58]but it was like the chapter I was the most like,
[20:59]hey, I'm nervous about that one.
[21:01]Well, well, I think it's another example.
[21:03]I feel like this courses throughout the book
[21:04]of just you're being able to get through anything
[21:08]and maybe understand it later,
[21:10]maybe it pays off later,
[21:12]even like that job that you had
[21:13]where you negotiated the San Frans for like,
[21:16]like you can get through anything.
[21:18]I mean, obviously, you know, a childhood of abuse
[21:21]and a really boring job are different animals,
[21:24]but it's the same sort of tenacity
[21:26]and the motivation for inspiration rather,
[21:29]for people reading to be like,
[21:30]okay, we'll just stick through it
[21:32]and things will get better at the end.
[21:34]Like you just have to get through it.
[21:36]Well, I think that there's like something about,
[21:38]you know, this book is not the book
[21:40]that I intended to write, you know, in many respects.
[21:42]I think that in the beginning,
[21:43]it was just gonna be like funny childhood stories,
[21:45]which I would have loved to do.
[21:47]But as I was writing it,
[21:49]this kind of came out naturally
[21:50]because I was telling a fuller version of the stories.
[21:53]And, you know, one of the things I realized
[21:56]when I saw it all together,
[21:58]because it was coming together in bits and pieces,
[22:00]was, oh, you know, I'm so lucky to have friends
[22:04]in a support system, a wonderful wife, a great family.
[22:07]But at the same time too, there's a part of me,
[22:11]it's like, you have to keep on,
[22:13]there's no easy way, there's no eggs that there's no,
[22:17]there's no shortcut, right?
[22:18]Like you just have to keep on kind of working on things
[22:21]and hopefully you tie yourself to people
[22:23]that will help you achieve that.
[22:25]You know, but if there's nobody,
[22:27]but if there's no one in there,
[22:29]it may have to come down to you.
[22:30]And maybe there's moments where you are lifted up
[22:34]and maybe there are moments where you're by yourself.
[22:36]But yeah, I think it's important to kind of do both,
[22:40]a little bit of both.
[22:40]Like I'm not saying your left yourself
[22:42]but by your bootstraps, it's the only way.
[22:44]It's like, no, I think that there's a certain moments
[22:45]where you, you know, you can't count on anyone
[22:48]and you have to look for yourself
[22:49]in those moments where you have to count on everybody.
[22:51]And yeah, to me, it's, I loved writing this book.
[22:55]I have for a couple of reasons
[22:57]because I was afraid that it would fall in this category
[23:00]of memoir that would be like show busy.
[23:04]And I didn't want that.
[23:05]I felt like that's not super relatable.
[23:07]It's like, if I'm Barbara Streisand, God bless,
[23:09]then let's do it.
[23:10]Because I'll have stories to tell, you know,
[23:12]but the truth is is like, I find myself responding
[23:14]to things like Janet McCurdy's book, you know,
[23:16]some of my mom died and things like that.
[23:18]Like there's a more universality to it.
[23:21]And that's what I think it's been so amazing
[23:23]about this is talking to people like,
[23:25]oh, I wasn't in an abusive household.
[23:27]Oh, I had a friend who was but I identify with this.
[23:30]I have like, people identify with things in different ways.
[23:33]So I feel like, you know, I read the Paris Hilton's book
[23:36]and I loved it at this section
[23:37]about you're going to this boarding school.
[23:40]This is horrific.
[23:41]I didn't have that experience
[23:41]but I can identify with the feelings there.
[23:43]And I think that sometimes some of these conversations
[23:46]that I have with people, it's not like,
[23:47]oh, you had my life or it's just like,
[23:50]but we had something where we triumphed over something
[23:54]and it, and I feel like when you share these stories,
[23:56]sometimes they're dark, sometimes they're light.
[23:58]You know, the book to me, I think it's told now,
[24:00]I try to make it entertaining,
[24:01]but it's important to tell these stories
[24:03]because going back to, we start talking
[24:05]about in the beginning is like that empathy.
[24:07]They're like, oh, yes, I can put myself in these shoes.
[24:09]I can see where I can take from that too.
[24:11]It's important.
[24:12]And I feel like you included the stories
[24:15]when you were growing up, some of the stars like Alan Alden
[24:18]because being so nice and like here you are,
[24:21]now you're a celebrity and you have the chance
[24:23]not only to be nice to people,
[24:24]but literally like pour your heart out and be like,
[24:27]I'm so nice that I'm actually gonna like write a whole book
[24:30]for you.
[24:30]Well, you know what, to me, it's like,
[24:32]I'm so lucky and I'm sure you feel the same way.
[24:35]Like, I love, I'm a fan.
[24:38]I'm a fan first, right?
[24:39]I love art.
[24:41]I mean, whatever that is, if it's movies, TV shows,
[24:43]literature, literal art, you know, like music.
[24:47]I like, so I love supporting that.
[24:49]I love seeing people that I love.
[24:52]You know, so I also understand like,
[24:54]when people come out to see a show, it's money,
[24:56]hard earned, and I wanna make sure that
[24:58]every experience is worthwhile, you know?
[25:00]You know, people have said to me like,
[25:02]well, you've spent so much time with these book signings.
[25:04]I'm like, well, what else is the option?
[25:07]Like, you know, it's like there's no, you know,
[25:10]like if someone's in this by my book,
[25:12]I'm so eternally grateful.
[25:13]Like it truly is, you know, it's like,
[25:15]because the reason why I'm able to write this book,
[25:17]the reason I'm able to have a podcast,
[25:18]because people listen, people buy people support.
[25:21]And like, I can never forget that.
[25:24]Like, that's the most important thing, you know?
[25:26]I don't wanna forget it, you know?
[25:28]It's like, so yeah.
[25:29]I love that.
[25:30]Do you have advice for people trying to write their own memoirs?
[25:34]You know, I think the best advice I could give
[25:39]I could give is don't worry about it being perfect.
[25:44]Just start getting it out.
[25:45]It will start to come.
[25:46]Like, I feel like this book to me,
[25:49]and I'm not somebody who is a sculpture artist,
[25:53]but it felt like carving marble.
[25:55]Like, I was like, I have an idea.
[25:57]Okay, this is coming, oh, this is a little different
[25:59]than what I thought.
[26:00]Okay, like, I just kept on kind of evolving
[26:02]and I would see it as it was like happening in front of me.
[26:06]You know, I was, it was odd in that way.
[26:09]Like, I knew what I wanted to do,
[26:11]but I also wrote with the knowledge of,
[26:15]because before I sold the book,
[26:16]I wanted to write a lot of it.
[26:19]I wrote about a hundred pages of it,
[26:21]and it's not the exact same form.
[26:23]But it was allowed me to go like,
[26:25]no one's gonna see this.
[26:26]If this stinks, forget it.
[26:28]I won't go off and get an agent.
[26:30]I won't try to go sell this book.
[26:32]So writing in that world where it's like,
[26:33]I have complete control.
[26:34]This is not going out.
[26:35]This is not a tweet.
[26:36]I'm like, I can sit with this.
[26:38]I can, you know, so there are moments
[26:39]where I really wrote hard stuff that I was like,
[26:42]I never want anyone to see, but sometimes that's okay
[26:45]because it got me to a nugget, a paragraph,
[26:48]something else that I did think was important.
[26:50]So to me, it was like, let it all go,
[26:54]the editing process will kind of mix and match everything.
[26:58]Like, as a matter of fact, sorry,
[26:59]there's a long answer to your very simple question,
[27:01]but no, it's great, it's great.
[27:02]You know, I wanted to write my first note
[27:05]I ever got was go deeper, great note.
[27:08]And the next note after that was go even deeper.
[27:11]Again, I'm so thankful for those two notes
[27:13]that kind of kicked me off because I was afraid
[27:16]to go deeper.
[27:17]And in the process of writing, I was like,
[27:19]well, what am I afraid of saying here?
[27:23]And I wrote that chapter of like what I was afraid of saying.
[27:28]And I feel like that was a trauma dump chapter.
[27:34]It was a chapter that was, ooh, it was not,
[27:37]there was no likeness.
[27:38]And I think the book really balances.
[27:41]And as a matter of fact, my editor was like,
[27:42]okay, yeah, and we were looking at essays
[27:45]and that was kind of always put to the side.
[27:48]But when she did her first pass on the book,
[27:53]she took chunks of that and spread it out throughout the book.
[27:56]So happy I wrote that chapter because as it's,
[28:00]it wasn't tonally right for the book,
[28:04]but it was tonally right in moments and pieces.
[28:08]And it helped paint stuff.
[28:09]So I feel like doing those exercises,
[28:12]not trying to game it, not trying to be like,
[28:14]I got the draft done, I got it.
[28:15]I let the book surprise you.
[28:17]That to me was the best part of it.
[28:19]I love that part of creation.
[28:21]Anyway, it's like the intent
[28:22]versus what actually is executed is amazing.
[28:25]And you know, I, the most exciting part of the book for me
[28:29]was the last eight weeks from Thanksgiving to January 22nd
[28:36]where I just worked non-stop on the edits.
[28:39]Cause it's like, that's when it started to really like,
[28:42]oh, this and that and pull this, oh, and this.
[28:44]And you could tie things.
[28:45]It's like, so it's never really done until it's done done.
[28:48]And I think I was waiting for some sort of magic bullet
[28:52]like I was gonna hand in my book.
[28:53]And then my editor back here it is.
[28:56]And I was like, oh, no, no, no, you know,
[28:58]there's so much you don't know.
[28:59]I think that the other thing too,
[29:01]there's so much I didn't know about writing a book.
[29:03]Wow, I was shocked.
[29:05]And I'm promoting it as a whole other beast.
[29:08]It's like, wow, I thought I'd done it before.
[29:10]I've done other things.
[29:11]It's a whole different monster.
[29:13]Well, you're like out there.
[29:14]I mean, it's great.
[29:15]It's really wonderful what you've been doing.
[29:17]Oh, thanks.
[29:18]I'm trying to, you know, and I don't know what's too much,
[29:20]but I'm also like, the truth is,
[29:22]is like I'm proud of the book.
[29:23]No, it's not too much.
[29:24]It's not too much.
[29:25]It's not too much.
[29:26]That's what you have to do.
[29:27]That's what you have.
[29:27]Because it's like, I may go to a bookstore
[29:29]and I see like a table full of Tom Selleck books,
[29:33]which is great and God bless Tom Selleck.
[29:35]But then, you know, and then I see my book,
[29:37]you know, on a shelf, and there's four or five of them.
[29:39]I'm so thrilled to be in the store.
[29:40]Don't get me wrong.
[29:41]But it's hard to compete when you have a table,
[29:45]a mountain, you know, Bill Mars book.
[29:48]Bill Mars.
[29:48]But the, you know, when you go with Barnes and Noble,
[29:50]it's like at every cash register,
[29:52]check in like how can you compete with that?
[29:54]You can't.
[29:54]It's, so I have to go.
[29:56]I have to do it differently.
[29:57]That's literally, I just wrote a book called blank.
[30:00]And it's like about that exactly how publishers push certain books.
[30:03]And they're like huge stacks.
[30:04]And like how can the other person even compete?
[30:06]So the main character hands her book and blank is a commentary on the public.
[30:09]Oh my God.
[30:10]Oh, I got to read this.
[30:11]So I can't wait, because it really is.
[30:13]It's that's the most fascinating part.
[30:15]It's like, you can't like, it's almost built, it's built to work against you.
[30:21]It's true.
[30:22]And you are out there.
[30:23]And again, and like again, and there's other things people go, I don't know.
[30:27]I don't know how to game the system.
[30:28]I don't think there's a game system.
[30:29]The only way to game the system is like, beg people to be like, not beg.
[30:33]But say like word of mouth and have like people come on the tail, the tail, the tail.
[30:38]But it's like, you know, it's like, I'm very happy to like, and I want that.
[30:44]And I guess I've talked to some people, especially people like comedians, or people in my
[30:50]field are like, oh, yeah, well, I'm not going to promote the book.
[30:52]It's like, that's that's their job.
[30:53]I'm like, well, no, no, no, I mean, if you care about it, like I spend a lot of time working
[30:57]on this.
[30:58]I'm going to be promoting this book until, you know, and that the word of mouth has been
[31:02]the best thing in many respects.
[31:04]Yeah.
[31:05]Amazing.
[31:06]Oh my gosh.
[31:07]Paul, thank you so much.
[31:08]This is so much.
[31:09]I talked to you all day.
[31:10]Really appreciate it.
[31:11]It was awesome.
[31:12]And yeah, just so great.
[31:13]So great.
[31:14]Thank you.
[31:15]I'm so glad you let us get to know you.
[31:16]Well, I'm so happy.
[31:17]And I will say this not that this is a sales technique at all, but I will say, you
[31:20]know, according to your podcast title, your podcast, no time to read.
[31:23]The audiobook is, I made it for lovers of audiobooks, because I am an audiobook freak.
[31:29]And I have extra clips and different things in there to make it a lot more fun, because
[31:34]I feel like the car pool is where once the kids are dropped off, I'm back in.
[31:38]I'm in whatever I'm into perfect, perfect audiobook plug as well.
[31:43]Congratulations.
[31:45]And thank you so much for your time.
[31:46]Oh my gosh.
[31:47]Thank you.
[31:48]Thanks for listening to momstone have time to read books.
[31:52]If you love it, please leave a review and follow us on social at city Owens and at city
[31:57]readers.