A Zibby Summer Reads pick! Yukiko Tominaga, SEE: LOSS. SEE ALSO: LOVE.
[0:02]Hi, I'm Sivi Owens, and I am the host of this podcast, Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[0:08]I am also a newly minted USA Today best-selling author of The Novel, Blake,
[0:14]and created a whole community of book lovers around this podcast, a publishing company,
[0:19]reading retreats, a bookstore, and more. Learn more at ZiviMedia.com or follow me on social
[0:25]at Zivi Owens or join the community at ZiviReaders.
[0:31]Yukiko Tominaga is the author of Sea Loss, Sea Also Love, A Novel. Yukiko was born and raised in
[0:37]Japan. She was a finalist for the 2020 Flannery O'Connor Award for Short Fiction,
[0:42]selected by Roxanne Gay. Her work has been nominated for the Push Card Prize and has appeared in the
[0:47]Chicago Quarterly Review and the Bellingham Review among other publications. She works at Counterpoint
[0:52]Press where she helps to introduce Never Before Translated Books from Japan to English Language
[0:57]Readers. This is her first book. Welcome, Yukiko. Thank you so much for coming on Moms Don't Have
[1:02]Time to Read Books to discuss Sea Loss, Sea Also Love, which is, by the way, a fabulous, fabulous title.
[1:10]Oh my gosh. I was like, yes, I have to read this book. Oh, thank you, Sivi. Okay,
[1:18]tell listeners what your book is about, please. Yes, so it's about a Kyoko Japanese woman
[1:25]who raised a child alone in the U.S. after she lost her husband. And we follow her
[1:33]both her sons' growth from 18 months old to 15 years old. And as well as Kyoko's growth as a mother
[1:42]and a woman. And I said she's alone to raise her child in a familiar country, but because she has
[1:52]depend on other people. And so people help her most notably her Jewish mother-in-law who never
[2:00]gives up to love her, even though when Kyoko lost faith in love. And yes, and for me, it's a
[2:09]love letter to San Francisco parents community and love letter to a booby, the mother-in-law.
[2:17]Do you know that this whole time, until right this minute? And I read it first over the
[2:25]Christmas holidays and all that. And then I skimmed it again just to refresh my memory.
[2:31]And until now, I did not realize it was a novel. I thought in the whole time it was a memoir.
[2:38]I don't know why. Yeah, so okay, I'm like rethinking the whole thing, not that it makes
[2:44]better worse. Just I thought this was your story, but it's obviously not. Oh, well, I'm so much
[2:50]for being a close reader. Yeah, it says a novel right here on the cover. So yeah, anyway,
[2:56]it can be a novel, it can be a show story about the a booby character is really my mother-in-law
[3:05]except she's probably 10 times more funny and direct than what I can do in the book. I wish I
[3:12]could capture. I think I captured her, but I wish I know exactly what she says in life. I
[3:22]just imagine this is how she's gonna react if it's in a situation and that situation. But I really
[3:30]wanted to capture her because one day, is it okay to talk? Yeah, it's okay to talk. This is your
[3:37]stage. We have, you know, this is designed for you to talk about your back and people discover it
[3:44]and find out what's great about it and you and all that. Yeah, I didn't want to interrupt. No, no,
[3:50]talk talk talk talk. Okay, but one year she was visiting us. She's in Massachusetts, but in an
[3:59]every spring she comes to visit for Passover time. And so she was, she was with us in some
[4:06]time she's called one year. And the Passover time, so she's cooking and she was teaching me how
[4:14]to make chicken soup and every step and then our little tricks that she does and this is like
[4:21]every year we do. And I realized that the one day this is all gonna be gone. You know, one thing
[4:29]that we all guaranteed is to die one day that, you know, we can avoid. And as powerful as she is,
[4:39]that time will come and then I start to tear up for while she was explaining cooking.
[4:47]And I thought I have to capture her some way. Otherwise, how would I remember her?
[4:54]So yeah, it's fun. The reason why I wanted to, I wanted to write. Oh, it's so nice.
[5:02]Is she still alive now? Oh, yes. Yes. She's very much alive and then I have an event in Boston
[5:10]and the publisher was very nice. I said, I don't know much people in Boston. So
[5:18]I'm not sure if it's worth doing like no, no, you're family in Boston. They wouldn't want to come.
[5:24]So let's do it. And so I told Bobby, I'm coming to Boston for the book and she's all prepared.
[5:32]She said, I think I should do visit the bookstore before you come to introduce myself.
[5:38]Sure do that. And then today she wrote me a text and said, I think I'm doing that not very
[5:44]Polish before your book event. And then I have no idea what's the relationship between book event
[5:50]and the nail polish, but I'm sure. And I said, Oh, I don't you paint orange because that's the book
[5:56]cover. And she's like, that's a good idea.
[6:02]Have you gone through loss? Like, I'm sorry now that I don't know about you thinking that I
[6:07]knew your entire life. So in the book, let me say it like this in the book, the husband dies
[6:13]early on. And so the mother and her son are left in the care essentially of the mother-in-law
[6:19]who takes over in that family and having to navigate the landscape of loss, but also the landscape
[6:25]of another culture. And Japanese culture versus Jewish culture and what the meaning of family is
[6:30]and closeness and all of that. So does any of this dovetail with your own life or not at all? And
[6:35]this is totally fiction. Yeah, it's a loosely based on what I experienced or the things that I felt.
[6:43]So things that I thought it was amazing how expression or different for us in Japanese culture
[6:52]and in Jewish culture. And then I thought it was so beautiful that I have to keep it somewhere
[7:01]because expression is different. But what we want to deliver is the same thing.
[7:10]Yeah, interesting. Well, you have a passage that I wanted to read if that's okay. Can I read
[7:15]a moment? Okay. So this is one of the scenes in the beginning. There are so many sections I can
[7:21]read. But anyway, let me read this because this is sort of how we open up, how you open up with
[7:27]what happens. Alex is the son, the husband is Levi. And you've just found out that Levi has
[7:33]has had this horrific accident where he's been fixing a car you think and the car has crushed
[7:38]his chest and blah, blah, blah. Anyway, the gray hall to hallway continued as far as I could see
[7:42]then a cold metal door appeared in front of me room for I opened the door and in the corner of
[7:47]the room, I saw a body covered with a white sheet except for the bruise on his left eyelid. He
[7:52]looked in good condition. He might have been sleeping. I thought with my ring finger, I touched his
[7:57]cheek. He was cold. It was not the coldness that sinks into your bones and not the coldness
[8:02]that children bring after coming back in from a snowball fight. It was a coldness. I could never
[8:07]warm. I haven't found the words to describe this sensation. Yet when I think about that moment,
[8:12]my now empty finger feels the chill. So powerful. Tell me about writing that scene in that moment.
[8:20]I clearly remember writing that scene. I think to multiple times, I try to explain the sensation
[8:31]of coldness. And I still cannot explain what is like. So I have to rely on almost like a physical
[8:42]thing. That was the cruises that I can tell what feels like. I'm sorry. Maybe I'm not making
[8:51]sense. I still cannot explain. You're making sense. It's hard to explain. It's like beyond our
[8:56]comprehension that this happens in our world, right? All of that. But here, let me read another section
[9:03]also because I have like 20 pages dug here here. But let me read about this funny thing
[9:09]about how you describe Alex. Alex was born with the look of a famous Japanese boxer who later
[9:16]became a slapstick comedian. His face red and beaten his body bruised. When I pressed him to my
[9:22]breast to feed, he could barely open his eyes. His eyelids still swollen like an alien. No whites to his
[9:27]eyes. He's here. He's in my arms. I shouted to my mother in Japan over the telephone. He is as red
[9:32]as a baboon's butt and looks like guts. Is she Matsu? Mother, he is here with me. And when I hold my
[9:38]finger under his nose, I can feel the air coming out. He is alive. My mother laughed or cried
[9:43]or both and said, he sounds adorable. Yes, it doesn't make any sense. Why does it need to make
[9:49]sense? My mother said. Tell me about that and that feeling of, you know, does love even make sense.
[9:57]Yes, I think all my
[10:00]chapters, that is like a question I'm always asking,
[10:05]a love between husband and wife or between child,
[10:09]between mother's daughter or between strangers,
[10:14]between mother-in-law.
[10:15]It's a forever fascinating topic for me,
[10:18]and probably I will always questioning about love.
[10:23]And I still question like, how is it possible
[10:27]that you care as someone so much?
[10:31]Especially child, the love for a child,
[10:34]doesn't make sense to me,
[10:36]because things that happen to you many times,
[10:40]you can tolerate, like a pain for yourself.
[10:44]It's painful, but you can deal with it, I think.
[10:49]But when something happened to your child,
[10:52]it's all so unbearable, and sometimes we want to fix.
[10:57]Sometimes we wait, but it's still enduring.
[11:03]And then it happens, for me, it happened immediately
[11:08]right after I had a child.
[11:10]And before that, it was just a concept.
[11:14]Even I felt there's something moving in my womb in the stomach.
[11:20]It doesn't quite click.
[11:23]The something is something I didn't even think someone
[11:28]and inside.
[11:29]And I was just talking about thought of like,
[11:32]that's impossible.
[11:33]That's impossible.
[11:35]Something can grow in a stomach and the womb.
[11:39]But immediately you see where it becomes a world of for you.
[11:46]Does it make sense?
[11:47]Yes, it makes sense.
[11:49]Yes, you don't have to worry.
[11:50]I'm following along, everything you're saying
[11:53]is making sense.
[11:54]It's okay.
[11:55]I'm always worried that it doesn't make sense.
[11:57]No, don't worry.
[11:59]When I write, I can make so much edits, so many edits.
[12:04]And to clarify what I'm trying to do,
[12:07]when I speak, I'm always questioning, does it make sense?
[12:11]And, well, you don't have to worry here.
[12:18]Tell me about becoming a writer
[12:20]and how you honed that craft.
[12:24]Yes, so many years ago, I thought about
[12:28]the same thing when I was talking about Bobbi,
[12:32]we, it's clear we all die.
[12:35]And what will be the thing that I wanna do
[12:39]if my life only is like another month student.
[12:43]And my God, I wish to write, I wish to write fictions.
[12:49]And then also, I thought, what will be the hardest thing
[12:53]as a English, as a second language learner to do.
[12:58]And then I thought, if I can write in English,
[13:02]that seems the most challenging thing.
[13:05]And if I can do that, maybe raising a child alone
[13:10]is not as hard as I think people.
[13:15]So then I started writing, first of a few books
[13:19]were just horrible, but I had a fun.
[13:23]And this is quite addictive.
[13:26]And I was writing and then my grammar is horrible,
[13:31]still horrible.
[13:32]So I found someone on Craigslist who can do the copy
[13:36]editing, like, oh, this person looks good, let's do it.
[13:40]And then he was, you know, I paid
[13:43]and he was fixing and he has the why, do you write?
[13:46]And like, I don't know and I explained the same thing.
[13:50]And our friendship just continued.
[13:54]And he told me why don't you try to go to school?
[13:58]And then I didn't know there's a school creative writing
[14:02]which you learn or train yourself to write.
[14:07]Mm-hmm.
[14:09]So since then I was stopped and then along the way,
[14:14]there's always someone who believed in me.
[14:18]And I started with the person who copied edited
[14:22]and turned out he was horrible copy editor
[14:24]because I catch my own mistakes.
[14:27]So a few years into friendship, but hey, I realized
[14:32]you don't catch all the typos and like,
[14:35]oh, yeah, I'm not really a good copy editor.
[14:39]So why are you here?
[14:41]Like, well, but you keep writing and isn't that the point?
[14:46]My existence is like, I guess so.
[14:49]And I was still keeping him.
[14:53]So I'm like, I guess so, it's a kind of success.
[14:57]But he had a, I think he had an MS.
[15:00]So he told me one day, it's a miracle
[15:04]that I can still do this.
[15:06]One day I won't be able to do.
[15:09]And then it was affecting his eyes.
[15:12]And as I was transitioning my career in a writing,
[15:19]other people started supporting and stuff.
[15:22]And I noticed he was fading.
[15:25]And I realized his disease was taking over him.
[15:30]Yeah, that's sad, yeah.
[15:32]So I don't know if he can read, he doesn't email me back anymore.
[15:39]And then I, yeah, I think it's quite painful process
[15:43]because that was his whole life of writing and reading.
[15:47]And to lose that is, yeah,
[15:51]with him, it's a losing a big part of him.
[15:55]And it might be painful even to see my book or my regret.
[16:02]Yes.
[16:04]Sure, it's not painful.
[16:05]It's, well, maybe physically painful,
[16:08]but I'm sure he is proud of him.
[16:10]Are you of come because of his coaching?
[16:13]You know, people come into our lives
[16:14]for all sorts of crazy reasons, right?
[16:17]Yes, no.
[16:18]So it's just, keep continued.
[16:21]And I think it's very much a luck that I had
[16:24]of people around me.
[16:28]Well, are you writing anything now?
[16:31]Yes, now it's a Japan, in Japan,
[16:34]I go back to my home country once a year or so.
[16:39]But in between I have this friend and up in Tahoku
[16:43]where that tsunami hit in 2011.
[16:47]And she tells me so many interesting stories.
[16:52]And they were all related to again, love
[16:58]and the incredible capacity of people
[17:02]could bring themselves for other people.
[17:06]And so I wanted to write specifically that area
[17:13]after the tsunami hit a lot of volunteer
[17:17]from in Japan, they came to help and they stayed
[17:22]because there's something so beautiful.
[17:26]It doesn't exist in the city side.
[17:30]So they just stayed.
[17:32]And because of the new young people came in,
[17:36]a lot of love relationship was budding everywhere.
[17:40]And then sometimes it crosses and everybody knows
[17:43]everybody and then kind of goes it's like,
[17:46]oh, did you hear so and so is dating with so and so?
[17:49]Like, oh, I thought that one is dating with that one.
[17:52]Like, oh, that's a month ago.
[17:55]And then it's a nicely mixed of people
[17:59]who lived there for a long time and who migrated
[18:04]because many of the town are already kind of aged
[18:08]and old.
[18:09]They didn't know how to survive almost as a town.
[18:14]So that tsunami was tragedy
[18:18]yet something new born from that.
[18:23]And so I want to capture the beauty part of it.
[18:28]Amazing.
[18:30]Okay, what advice do you have for aspiring authors?
[18:33]Oh, but I think what worked for me the most
[18:37]is to find my own rhythm.
[18:40]There are many, many other biases.
[18:42]Some people write every day in the morning for two hours
[18:47]or even you cannot write 10 pages every day or whatever.
[18:51]But it's to find what works for you.
[18:55]I was writing the article before this meeting.
[18:58]But for me, if I tell myself, I'm writing a story
[19:02]or a novel I will crush by the pressure
[19:07]that I would never start if I say I'm writing a novel.
[19:11]Mm-hmm.
[19:12]But if I say I'm just taking a note,
[19:17]a little sketch is here and there.
[19:19]So then I pile up whole bunch of a document.
[19:23]Sometimes one line, sometimes one word,
[19:26]sometimes one scene and keep it somewhere.
[19:30]And when I am writing, if I don't have anything,
[19:36]then I will pull all the document and go through
[19:40]and whatever captures my eye and then I will start working.
[19:45]And then if it doesn't work, I will put back.
[19:48]But eventually I realize they all become a story.
[19:51]It just needs a lot of time.
[19:53]Sometimes to sit for a while.
[19:56]So that works for me.
[19:58]I cannot tell myself.
[20:00]you are writing a story. I have to tell, I'm just capturing one scene of what I think is
[20:09]or telling or what I want to say. Can I tell you this beautiful thing happened to
[20:18]so also for me. And then also that's a process but one more thing is I write so that I can
[20:29]feel there's a kindness in me that's I think that's the biggest reason why I really like
[20:36]many times in the daily lives. I don't feel I'm a card person or I'm a generous person
[20:43]I'm more moved by other people's generosity and kindness and I always think how can you do
[20:50]that? And I feel sometimes I'm so stingy or oh you know the things I feel but when I write I can love
[21:01]everyone. Like I really feel like I can live all the humanity in the world.
[21:08]And when I hit that kind of state I know the story is working so I did I own that feeling.
[21:18]So maybe other people has a different kind of feeling that they can be that I own.
[21:25]I love that. Amazing. Well thank you so much. You think this was wonderful. The book was fabulous
[21:33]and I loved the characters who I thought were real because I thought they were.
[21:41]But thank you so much for coming on and for sharing your story and sharing this beautiful
[21:47]story of the love between mother-in-laws that often goes undiscussed because so often people
[21:56]say that relationship is terrible and yet here it is a work of art and beauty and I think for
[22:02]anyone looking for a gift for a mother-in-law this is a good gift for that and yeah what a what a
[22:08]unique viewpoint. I forgot to even talk about your whole surfing career not you. You keep the
[22:12]characters whole surfing career later in life was also so fun to read about and I was like I did not
[22:19]see that coming so anyway congratulations really beautiful. Thank you. Okay thank you bye bye.
[22:28]Thanks for listening to moms don't have time to read books if you love it please leave a review
[22:35]and follow us on social at city Owens and at Zibi readers.