The View co-host! Sunny Hostin, SUMMER ON HIGHLAND BEACH
[0:02]Hi, I'm Zippy Owens, and I am the host of this podcast, Mom's Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[0:08]I am also a newly minted USA Today best-selling author of the novel, Blake.
[0:14]I've created a whole community of book lovers around this podcast, a publishing company, reading retreats,
[0:20]a bookstore, and more. Learn more at ZippyMedia.com or follow me on social at Zippy Owens or join the community at Zippy Readers.
[0:31]Sunny Hostin is the author of summer on Highland Beach, a novel. She has been on this podcast before, and happy to welcome her back.
[0:39]Attorney in four-time Emmy award-winning legal journalist, Sunny Hostin, is a co-host of the ABC daytime talk show the view.
[0:45]She is the author of Summer of On the Bluffs and Summer on Zack Harbor, as well as I am these truths, a memoir of identity,
[0:53]justice, and living between worlds. Hostin received her undergraduate degree in communications from Binghamton University,
[0:59]and her law degree from Notre Dame Law School. In native of New York City, she lives with her husband and two children in Westchester County, New York.
[1:06]Welcome, Sunny. Welcome back on Mom's Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[1:09]Thank you. You know, I love you.
[1:11]Third time, you got to separate writing books. This is like too much too fast.
[1:17]I was going to say I have all my books in front of me. Oh my gosh, and they look so good.
[1:21]Third one, third one. Wow. That's so crazy. I feel like I was just talking about the first one.
[1:26]I'm like, I think there is going to be more. And now all of a sudden, here's the pile.
[1:31]I know. Okay. I don't know how.
[1:34]How are you getting all this done? I want you to talk about more about the book.
[1:37]But you're on the view. You're doing all these things.
[1:40]You've had three best selling, but I mean, this is crazy.
[1:44]When are you doing everything?
[1:45]When are you doing everything?
[1:46]Really crazy. I have to tell you. I'm kind of a little shocked myself, but I work late into the evening.
[1:52]I'm actually a night owl by nature.
[1:55]Whereas everyone else in my family seemed to be like morning birds.
[2:00]So I just waited until everyone goes to sleep.
[2:04]And they usually are in bed no later than like nine o'clock, 10 o'clock.
[2:09]And then I am up. That's sort of the sweet spot for me.
[2:12]So I start writing probably around 10.
[2:14]I try to be done by midnight.
[2:16]I just keep myself on a schedule Monday through Friday.
[2:19]And I get done when I can get done because I get a pretty early for the show.
[2:23]And then on the weekends, you know,
[2:25]Sunday is kind of a family day where we dinner together and we go to church together.
[2:29]But Saturday is I put in a couple hours.
[2:31]And for some reason that formula really works for me.
[2:35]I can just zone in.
[2:37]Either have a cup of tea or a glass of wine.
[2:40]And I'm just off.
[2:41]And it's gotten easier and easier believe it or not.
[2:45]Once you, once you find your process.
[2:47]And especially for me because I love these characters now.
[2:50]And they're real people in my mind.
[2:52]I just know what they're going to say.
[2:54]I know.
[2:55]I know what situations in what situations, you know,
[2:58]the way they will react.
[3:00]And so it's gotten easier believe it or not.
[3:02]But then like when do you do all your emails?
[3:05]That is a great question because right before getting on with you,
[3:09]I looked down at my phone because I was writing something.
[3:14]and I had two hundred and fifty eight emails and I felt like passing out.
[3:18]I felt very sick because I figured those are the ones that didn't even make my spam box.
[3:23]So I probably have to at least look at them.
[3:27]So I've gotten into the habit of basically checking my emails every hour,
[3:32]which sounds kind of like, I don't know, kind of weird.
[3:37]But it's it's the only way I can stop from being overwhelmed
[3:43]by, you know, by the by the emails and just all the communications.
[3:48]And I kind of have to try to keep my social battery a little, a little more charge that way.
[3:53]Wow.
[3:54]Well, yeah.
[3:55]The email struggle is real.
[3:57]I feel like if it ever gets to five hundred, I like have a total panic attack.
[4:01]And I like clear that.
[4:02]And I'm like, I'm going to sit here until, you know, then I alpha.
[4:05]Of course.
[4:06]And I sort like A through Z.
[4:07]And I started A and I'm like, I'm going to get through D.
[4:10]And then I'm like, this is too depressing. I'm going to go from C up.
[4:13]And then I.
[4:14]Oh, my gosh.
[4:17]No, there seems to be no answer to emails.
[4:20]There's just no answer.
[4:21]You just have to plow through.
[4:22]But I guess, yeah, you've come out through this, this work life balancing.
[4:25]You know, I think people just, you just prioritize prioritize and you do the best that you can.
[4:30]Right.
[4:31]Like, that's what I do.
[4:32]I just do the best that I can.
[4:33]And if I didn't make it through old 258, you know, I just, I'll get back to it again.
[4:39]That's, that's my family and my writing and, and my show.
[4:44]It's just, you know, requires a lot of attention.
[4:47]And, and I, I try to be president in all of the spaces.
[4:50]And then email drops here and there.
[4:52]It's okay.
[4:53]Yeah.
[4:54]I always tell moms that it's okay.
[4:56]But we do.
[4:57]That's again.
[4:58]I know.
[4:59]Just the wrong email dropping.
[5:00]I think that's not always afraid of.
[5:02]It's like the one thing from the school or the one thing.
[5:06]Like, will you, you know, that I'm like, oh my gosh, I missed whatever.
[5:09]So, yeah.
[5:10]Oh, yes.
[5:11]Oh, yes.
[5:12]That has happened.
[5:13]Yeah.
[5:14]As my mom would say, but the beat goes on, you know.
[5:18]Okay.
[5:19]So you're writing late at night, which is when my brain is completely fried.
[5:23]And I can barely see straight, which is beyond impressive to me as a morning person.
[5:29]Okay.
[5:31]So Olivia has another act in this, in this version.
[5:36]We learn all about her grandmother and Christine and more about her dad and her family in the land and all of it.
[5:43]It is so exciting to dig deep.
[5:45]Tell me about this plot line where it came from and the historical context behind it.
[5:50]Sure.
[5:51]You know, it was, it came from the readers.
[5:53]And that's what's been such an incredible journey for me.
[5:58]Let me, you know, when I first wrote the first book, I just, I wrote it because I wanted to read it.
[6:02]I was just like, there's nothing like this out there.
[6:04]It's going to be this, you know, sort of elevated beat tree where you could have a glass of rose and sit in the beach and put your beach hat on and just get away.
[6:13]That was sort of why I wrote it.
[6:15]And then it became, you know, became this New York Times bestseller and it became this phenom.
[6:19]And people were actually visiting oak bluffs with, with t-shirts with the book cover printed on them and walking around.
[6:27]and they found the house that's on the cover and they're like knocking on the door.
[6:31]I mean, it just took on a life of itself.
[6:33]And what was great about it though is that people started actually reaching out to me on my website and they started, you know, reaching out to me in all sorts of ways.
[6:43]And they wanted to know more about Olivia.
[6:46]And so I was able to get this instant feedback like, well, what about Olivia?
[6:51]What about Olivia? And I thought she's a keeper, right?
[6:56]Like, well, people want to know more about her.
[6:58]I actually thought people would want to know more about online Carter or people, you know, would want to know more about Billy and Dulce or people would want to know about Perry and Damon.
[7:09]But no, people really felt that that Olivia's story had some, some things that really needed to be discovered and that she herself needed to go on a journey of self-disgusting.
[7:20]And self-care, very important.
[7:23]And I just, I wrote the second book and the same feedback came back.
[7:27]People really fell in love with this character.
[7:30]And, you know, I thought I'd need to sort of give her, her flowers here and, and let's dig deep.
[7:39]And in terms of history, you know, we know from the first two books I have for those that haven't read it.
[7:43]I don't want to spoil everything, but Olivia has had, you know, daddy issues, which a lot of people do have.
[7:49]And she was fortunate enough to, to really have a very loving father and a very loving Godfather.
[7:56]So she had these incredible male figures in her life, but really a lot of trouble with romantic relationships.
[8:03]And as it turns out, you know, she learns in this third book that she has a family that she knew nothing about, right?
[8:12]And it's a family grounded in history because I love historical fiction.
[8:17]And I knew right away that I was at the beginning of this trilogy that I was going to write about Highland Beach because I lived in Maryland for 10 years.
[8:26]And I had visited Highland Beach.
[8:28]And I knew that so many people didn't know that Frederick Douglass, sort of at the height of his advocacy.
[8:35]And he's called, you know, one of the greatest order orders of our time, I think, you know, in generations and in our country at least.
[8:45]And perhaps in the world that he had the summer home at the summer place where he could rest.
[8:55]And it sort of sheltered him from the very difficult races up that he was facing.
[9:04]And the very difficult work that he was trying to do to make our union a more perfect union, right?
[9:11]And so he has this place that he would visit.
[9:16]And not only would he visit Paul Dunbar would visit and W. E. B. DuBois would visit.
[9:21]And it's just this rich history about Frederick Douglass that no one knew about.
[9:26]I think the residents of Highland Beach like to keep it that way.
[9:29]Perhaps why no one knows about it.
[9:32]They've made that a little bit clear to me, you know, they want us to remain a small community, a safe community, a community rich with history.
[9:40]There is a Frederick Douglass museum there that is open to the public sometimes has very strict hours.
[9:48]But I decided that I wanted to teach people about this magical place because I've saved their many times and it's very magical.
[9:57]And I wanted people to...
[10:00]explore along with Olivia because she learns not only self care, she learns to take care
[10:06]of her mental health, which I think has been stigmatized for so long.
[10:10]She learned her value and her worth and she learns not only how to love herself but to
[10:16]love a partner and I wanted to explore all of those issues, especially in the time that
[10:22]we're in now in the country.
[10:24]I wanted to give people a getaway and something sweet, which I think it is, but of course
[10:30]it's complicated because my books are generally a little complicated, but they're all
[10:36]bound in family, place, and history.
[10:41]So how when you're writing and you're doing more inspired by historical narratives
[10:46]and all that, how close to the truth do you feel you have to, like how close to the line
[10:51]and do you tell, like are there really 46 families in the community?
[10:55]Jared, like are they?
[10:56]I stayed up close to it.
[10:58]You do?
[10:59]Okay.
[11:00]I do.
[11:01]You know, I work with a researcher.
[11:02]I bring someone along with me whenever I visit.
[11:04]I have that person.
[11:06]If people don't want anything audio taped, I have them taking copious notes so that
[11:11]I can ask the questions and receive things.
[11:14]I've learned a lot about autopilot, which is certainly your personal assistant line.
[11:19]So if I'm zooming with someone, I have autopilot taking notes.
[11:23]My son, my college son, a college age son taught me that.
[11:27]It's a wonderful, wonderful trick.
[11:29]Every time people when it shows autopilot would like to record, I'm like, no, don't
[11:33]record.
[11:34]Yeah.
[11:35]I always say no.
[11:36]I love it because it's my way of being able to be more present and not having to write
[11:40]things down and take no tech and actually take it in.
[11:43]And so I do.
[11:44]I do a lot of research.
[11:45]I think it's, it's right to get it right.
[11:48]I will say that this community in particular wants to remain pretty private.
[11:54]And so I assure them that I would be respectful of that wish.
[11:59]So I this book, I think while it is based in even more history than the other two books,
[12:06]I did try to change a little bit of the fabric of the community to protect it because
[12:14]it's quite a gem.
[12:15]The mayor wanted it to be protected.
[12:17]I mean, if you think about Highland Beach, this is the place not far from Annapolis,
[12:22]Maryland, which is sort of the capital there and it's beautiful place.
[12:25]Everybody knows about Annapolis.
[12:27]They know about Washington DC.
[12:29]They know, you know, about Baltimore.
[12:31]They don't know about Highland Beach and it's intentional.
[12:34]There are no Airbnb's there.
[12:36]There are no restaurants there.
[12:38]You can't do that.
[12:39]Did you not stay overnight?
[12:41]I did because my friend lives there.
[12:43]That's easy.
[12:45]But I so I got kind of lucky.
[12:48]That's how I found out about it.
[12:50]My friend Erica lives there and has had a home there.
[12:54]It's a family home.
[12:55]So she's somewhere there forever.
[12:57]And I didn't even realize before I started really, really doing the research for this
[13:02]book that they don't rent their homes out.
[13:05]They don't they sell to people that they know, they sell to people that they know will
[13:12]take care of the community and and really what really happens is they pass it down
[13:16]generationally, which is something that is pretty special, especially when you're talking
[13:21]about a historically black beach community.
[13:25]You know, there is this federal designation, HBC or kind of like HBCU, right, historically
[13:31]black colleges and universities, there are HBCs and they have really maintained this incredible
[13:38]hamlet, almost, of excellence and community notwithstanding, people's trying to sort of
[13:47]go in and break it up.
[13:49]It's remained within certain group of families for a really long time.
[13:54]So it sounds like there will be no t-shirts for this community.
[13:56]I do not think they are going to want the t-shirts.
[14:01]I mean, it's interesting because when some of the bluffs came out, I had no idea that
[14:05]would happen.
[14:06]You know, it sold like 25,000 copies the first week and like that summer, I'm told
[14:11]it, you know, commerce and visitors and travel, things went up like 200%.
[14:16]I had no idea that would happen.
[14:18]Some are on SAC Harbor.
[14:19]We had a little bit of an idea that would happen and it happened there again, but it's
[14:24]in the Hamptons.
[14:25]And so if you're not saying in SAC Harbor, you can say in other places, it did drive up
[14:29]property values, which for me, I'm grateful that it helped the community.
[14:35]But Highland Beach is a different kind of place.
[14:37]I don't think that's going to happen and that's intentional.
[14:40]They want to keep it the jewel that it is and that's fine.
[14:44]Well, some of the themes that run through the story, I feel like are, well, powerful and universal
[14:52]one of which is rejection and what happens when someone you love is not, doesn't want
[14:57]you.
[14:58]Whether it's a grandmother who says, like, you don't want you to be born or, like, is that
[15:03]intentional?
[15:04]It comes out when you're writing and what are your views on overcoming rejection?
[15:08]Yeah.
[15:09]It's intentional.
[15:10]I am mother of Gen Ziers and I've watched them navigate middle school, which is awful.
[15:18]I've watched them navigate high school.
[15:21]I'm watching one now navigate college and sports and really, failure, I've often thought
[15:30]I've learned more from my failures than I have from my successes.
[15:34]If you can pick yourself up and dust yourself off when rejected or when you failed, it
[15:40]makes you stronger, I think.
[15:42]But a lot of that also has to do with knowing your value and knowing your self worth.
[15:47]And so it is something that I intentionally explored, especially for women, quite frankly,
[15:53]because I grew up, you know, the daughter of a really feisty, strong woman who's like,
[15:58]you know, you've got to be able to make it on your own, even though, you know, she was
[16:02]happily married to my dad, it was just make your own way, make your own life.
[16:07]You know, no one is, no one does it better you than you do.
[16:11]And so I was filled with all these wonderful, I guess, almost, isms, you know, like,
[16:17]you, you are just terrific.
[16:19]And I saw that my children had that because I had still bad in them, but I saw so many
[16:25]of their friends struggling.
[16:26]I've seen so many of my friends struggle.
[16:29]I've seen so many marriages break up.
[16:32]You know, I've been married 25 years, divorce is 50% of the population.
[16:36]I've had 50% of my friends get divorced and women in particular, and my friend groups
[16:44]sort of value themselves through someone else's eyes, and especially being in the television
[16:49]business.
[16:51]You get rejected all the time.
[16:53]You get rejected daily on social media, for sure.
[16:56]And so if you don't have that really strong constitution, it can be crippling.
[17:00]And I thought, let me be publishing too, by the way, publishing, you can send your book
[17:07]out, your manuscript out to 100 publishers and maybe one things you're great.
[17:12]I was actually speaking to Stephen King, interviewing Stephen King, everyone rejected him.
[17:17]John Grisham has a similar story.
[17:19]Everyone rejected him, and Ellen Hildebrand, everyone rejected her, but you get that
[17:24]one person that gets you.
[17:26]I got lucky, my first editor, Carrie Farron, got it, got me, and I thought, let me explore
[17:33]with that, with that's like, and I also wanted to include therapy.
[17:40]Joy Behar has been really, really good for me in terms of saying, she's not a therapist,
[17:45]of course, but she likes to do psychodrama.
[17:47]And so she'll do sick, little mini psychodramas with me, after our show sometimes.
[17:53]And I really went to her quite a bit when I was writing this book to just ask her hypotheticals
[17:58]about, what would a therapist say here?
[18:01]What does this look like?
[18:03]What a therapist give you an answer and she said, no, you come up with the answer.
[18:07]And so that finds its way right into the book.
[18:10]So there were all these themes that were just bouncing around in my head from my life,
[18:15]from my friends, but also from the readers, the readers were, you know, really interested
[18:21]in the fact that I had a homosexual couple, a lesbian couple, they were really interested
[18:26]in the fact that I had interracial relationships, they were really interested in the fact
[18:29]that I had a woman who didn't understand her beauty and her self-worth.
[18:34]And those are, I think, themes that we see in every single space, man, every single community.
[18:43]And I think it's a read for anyone, really, for everyone.
[18:47]It's about a historically black beach community, but this is a book for everyone.
[18:52]And it's a book for men too.
[18:53]I'm always shocked that so many men read these books.
[18:56]I'm proud of it, but I knew that these are themes that are just in particular post-pandemic
[19:03]that people really needed to deal with.
[19:04]Wow.
[19:05]It's amazing.
[19:06]So if it's a trilogy then and you've, you know, run through these communities before
[19:12]you get, you know, people are like, don't come.
[19:16]We need our privacy.
[19:17]No, I'm kidding.
[19:18]If you, where is your writing career going to go from here?
[19:21]Oh, that's a good question.
[19:23]You know, I'm writing a new series and it's about a witch's coven, unbeknownst
[19:28]to many, except those that are closest to me, I am a sci-fi fantasy fanatic.
[19:34]I'm obsessed with like witches and vampires and UFOs and that kind of thing would be Goldberg
[19:41]and I have that in common.
[19:43]We sort of like out our space and things like that.
[19:45]And I just started writing it.
[19:48]I've got a couple chapters in and my book agent absolutely loves it.
[19:54]Although, you know, I'm after this went in, I've been told, do I have...
[20:00]of three more about these characters.
[20:04]And, you know, there are other HBBCs
[20:08]because readers have told me about 15 of them now.
[20:13]So I have a running list.
[20:15]So will I continue to write B-trees?
[20:18]I love Ellen Hildebrand.
[20:20]I love Terry McMillan.
[20:22]I kind of think, yeah, I don't know if this is the end
[20:26]of my career writing B-trees
[20:29]because I love that genre so much.
[20:31]But the next books will take a little bit of a turn.
[20:36]And I think, you know, there'll be some crossover audience.
[20:38]But I think they'll find a place with other people as well.
[20:41]And I'm excited about that.
[20:42]Wow.
[20:43]Well, fantasy, romanticy, like that whole thing
[20:46]is just blowing up right now.
[20:47]Oh, you love it.
[20:50]Well, I know how much work it takes to have a book a year
[20:54]is essentially what you're doing, right?
[20:55]I mean, that's what I'm doing.
[20:56]Yeah.
[20:57]I mean, as soon as you finish the book thing,
[20:59]it's like the next, so it has up to you for, I mean,
[21:03]level of production and all of it.
[21:05]And yeah.
[21:06]Thank you.
[21:07]It's really such a, you know, I finished writing this book
[21:09]and my agent said, when is the next one?
[21:13]And I was like, the next one.
[21:14]Yeah.
[21:15]Give me a minute.
[21:16]Oh, my gosh, I mean, you're right.
[21:18]And then lo and behold, I really did start
[21:21]sketching out something completely different.
[21:24]And I hope it's as well received as these books.
[21:26]But I'm really excited about the next trilogy.
[21:30]Amazing.
[21:31]So exciting.
[21:33]Well, I have to say, I peaked at your social media
[21:35]before we hopped on here quickly
[21:37]and watched your excerpt about the protest.
[21:41]So we don't have to talk about it, but it was just curious
[21:43]about your view of being an anti-war protest
[21:46]and not sort of anti-Israel versus anti-Palestinian
[21:50]or whatever.
[21:51]I understand they're now like hostages and Columbia
[21:54]to make never ending.
[21:56]Yeah, it is never ending.
[21:57]You know, I write a circle fiction
[22:00]because I think if we don't look at our past,
[22:03]past can become prologue, right?
[22:04]And so I am very interested in current events.
[22:08]And I'm a student of history.
[22:10]I took Middle Eastern studies when I was in college.
[22:13]And so it's something that I feel pretty deeply about.
[22:16]You know, I've often spoken about the fact
[22:18]that my grandfather is Jewish.
[22:20]And so I've taken an interest in what is happening.
[22:25]But most importantly, I think that our world is so,
[22:30]feels like the world is on fire for me.
[22:32]And I think for a lot of people.
[22:34]And I'd like there to be peace.
[22:37]And that sounds kind of corny.
[22:40]And it doesn't sound, you know, thoughtful.
[22:44]But that's what I think.
[22:46]I think that our young people,
[22:48]and I speak to a lot of young people,
[22:49]not only because I'm raising Gen Z years,
[22:51]but because I'm just interested in the lens, right?
[22:54]And it seems to me that that is the lens
[22:57]that they are looking through.
[22:59]They're looking through the fact
[23:01]that they've lived through a pandemic.
[23:03]You're looking through the fact
[23:04]that they are the generation that's gonna make less money
[23:07]than their parents.
[23:08]They're looking through the lens of having seen war,
[23:14]having also seen the first black president,
[23:17]having seen a terrible rise in anti-Semitism
[23:20]and a terrible rise in racism.
[23:22]And I think that they want peace, I do.
[23:29]And when I look at them protesting,
[23:31]I look back at the Vietnam era.
[23:34]I look back at apartheid, you know,
[23:36]the protests that I participated in
[23:40]when South Africa was under, you know,
[23:42]the support tied state.
[23:44]I think about their nope,
[23:46]not being weapons of mass destruction,
[23:48]but we were told there were.
[23:49]And so I think that, you know,
[23:53]in many respects, what I have said privately
[23:56]and what I've just recently said publicly was,
[23:59]you know, these students are not only exercising
[24:03]their first amendment rights to peacefully assemble.
[24:07]If it's not peaceful, that's another thing,
[24:09]but peacefully assemble.
[24:10]And I hope that people will be able to come together
[24:14]and do what we do on the view, listen to each other.
[24:18]Yes, is it uncomfortable to listen to some things
[24:21]coming your way?
[24:22]Yeah, it really is, see things, you know,
[24:25]that are uncomfortable.
[24:26]Yeah, it is, but I think without that,
[24:28]there is no real progress in that there is no real peace.
[24:31]And I've spoken to a lot of these kids on college campuses
[24:36]and that's what they're looking for.
[24:38]They're looking for resolution,
[24:39]they're looking for peace,
[24:41]they're looking for humanitarianism.
[24:44]And, you know, they may very well save us from ourselves.
[24:48]I have a lot of faith in this new generation.
[24:51]Faith that I don't think is shared by everyone,
[24:54]but I do have a lot of faith.
[24:56]And I think that the right thing to do
[24:59]since I do it for a living, is speak up
[25:03]when you feel strongly about something.
[25:05]And that really is very American, in my opinion.
[25:08]It just interviewed Manuel Acho
[25:10]and Noah Tischby today about-
[25:12]Exactly that, and comfortable conversations.
[25:15]And I was saying to them,
[25:16]and the same thing for you on the view,
[25:17]it's like you are pros, right?
[25:20]Like you are a professional conversation, haver, right?
[25:23]Like you guys have your, and your articulate,
[25:26]and you're smart, and whatever.
[25:28]And I think sometimes people want to have those conversations
[25:32]and they don't necessarily have the skills,
[25:34]they might have the desire.
[25:35]But I'm not-
[25:36]Because you're barred.
[25:37]Yeah, I don't know where we leave,
[25:40]what we, you know, like what then, you know,
[25:42]like what if the conversations end up being hurtful?
[25:45]Which, you know, I don't know.
[25:46]And sometimes they are, and sometimes they're uncomfortable.
[25:51]And sometimes you don't feel great in the space.
[25:54]But without those conversations,
[25:56]I don't see real progress actually.
[25:59]And, you know, we try to do it every day.
[26:02]And I've actually been very surprised
[26:04]at the tremendous amount of support that I've received.
[26:07]I've received messages from all around the world.
[26:10]I just got a message from France.
[26:14]So people are really watching these students.
[26:17]They're watching what we're doing here in this country.
[26:21]And they're listening.
[26:23]And that's all I ask.
[26:25]I listen.
[26:26]I hope other people listen to different points of view.
[26:30]And you come to the conclusion that you come to.
[26:34]But to sort of just be in a bubble or in a silo,
[26:37]and not even be open to dialogue,
[26:40]it is distressing to me.
[26:42]And I'm hoping that rather than see, you know,
[26:48]quelching and almost the choking of dialogue,
[26:52]I'm hoping that we'll see more people
[26:55]be able to come together and speak and talk.
[26:59]And I think that's how you reach real resolution.
[27:02]Amazing.
[27:03]Sunny, thank you so much.
[27:05]And you're coming back on, thank you for your work.
[27:08]And, you know, raising some of these big important issues.
[27:13]And all of that.
[27:15]So thank you so much for having me again.
[27:17]I appreciate it.
[27:18]Bye bye.
[27:20]All right, take care.
[27:21]Bye bye.
[27:21]Thank you, bye bye.
[27:24]Thanks for listening to moms.
[27:26]Don't have time to read books.
[27:27]If you love it, please leave a review.
[27:29]And follow us on social at Sippy Owens and at Sippy Readers.