A Zibby Summer Reads pick! Catherine Newman, SANDWICH
[0:02]Hi, I'm Sivi Owens and I am the host of this podcast, Mom's Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[0:08]I am also a newly minted USA Today best-selling author of the novel, Blake.
[0:14]I've created a whole community of book lovers around this podcast, a publishing company,
[0:19]reading retreats, a bookstore, and more. Learn more at ZiviMedia.com or follow me on social
[0:25]at Zivi Owens or join the community at ZiviReaders.
[0:31]Katherine Newman is the author of Sandwich, a novel, which has just hit the New York Times
[0:37]bestseller list as I am recording this and I am so excited that emailed her right away.
[0:42]I am just so excited for her. She is amazing and this could not happen to a better person.
[0:47]Anyway, Katherine Newman has written numerous columns, articles, and canned bean recipes
[0:52]for magazines and newspapers and her essays have been widely anthologized. She is the author
[0:56]of the novel We All Want Impossible Things, which was a Zivi's book club pick and if you haven't
[1:01]read it, go back and read that also. The memoir is Waiting for Birdie and Catastrophic Happiness,
[1:06]the middle grade novel One Mixed Up Night, and the best-selling kids' life skills book
[1:11]had to be a person. And what can I say? She lives in Amherst, Massachusetts. Hi, Katherine.
[1:15]Welcome. Thanks for coming back on Mom's Entertainment Read Books.
[1:22]Oh, you're so sweet. Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh, it matches your feelings.
[1:26]Katherine was just holding up blank and I am holding up her book and she's surprised at that.
[1:29]So that was very sweet. So excited to talk about sandwich. I laughed out loud. I teared
[1:35]up all the good things. You know, you're just so good at eliciting feeling and that is the
[1:41]joy of reading. So there you go. Thank you so much. You're welcome. Okay, tell listeners
[1:46]what sandwich is about. Sandinge. Wow, I think that's just like my first thing talking about it.
[1:51]Okay. Okay. We can take as many takes as you want. I get out. You know my elevator bit,
[1:58]I mean, do you remember when I was talking to you about something else? And I had already written it,
[2:03]but it wasn't published. And the elevator pitch was like menopause. That was the elevator pitch.
[2:08]We're like 9am. So, but I'm trying to thicken it out a little. Sandinge is about a woman in her 50s,
[2:18]made a rock. So far, so good. So far, so good. Keep going.
[2:21]I take advice in when we had a Cape Cod vacation home that she and her husband and their two
[2:29]kids have been going to for like 20 years. And so it's this one week of vacation. Her parents
[2:35]joined them and she's kind of sandwiched in the middle and she's just having a lot of memories
[2:42]of years past and this feeling of the kind of preciousness of now and how precarious it is with
[2:51]growing kids and elderly parents. And also just the layers and layers and layers of this
[2:57]trip they've taken for so many years. Wow. Well, you do such a good job of taking us through every,
[3:05]I mean, your original assessment of reproductive may have. It's every stage from, you know,
[3:12]procreation to the end of the line or so they might wish, you know. And how we as women have
[3:21]to deal with that. I mean, it's like a comic novel that involves everything about your 50s,
[3:26]but also all the times leading up to that too. Right. It's not just about that. That's just the
[3:32]point at which to flash back. Right. And that and also that if you're in a reproductive body,
[3:41]by the time you're in your 50s, so much stuff has happened to it. Like I feel like even just
[3:47]like being in a woman's body, having sex with men, like come on, you know, how many times have
[3:53]you like been pregnant or had a problem with the birth control or had a yeast infection or UTI or
[4:00]had a baby? Like, so many things and I just feel like it's, it really accrues like a gathers up this
[4:10]kind of weight of history. And then if your partner's with a man, your partner's with someone
[4:17]who really does not share that experience with you. And I wanted to get at Raki's sort of rage
[4:22]about that. You know, that she just has had all this trauma, this embodied trauma and joy,
[4:30]but a lot of trauma and that she's kind of alone in that. That's true. But there's just always
[4:37]just so nice and supportive all the time. You don't. So it's fine. Can I read a couple of my favorite
[4:44]Okay. I would love that. Um, okay. And then we're a bunch. Well, I'll just read a couple of different
[4:50]sections. Okay. So this is sort of like 60 pages in it. So you say the short version of makeup
[4:57]sex and the outdoor shower is that it doesn't have it. I get a splinter in my palm. I get a
[5:01]cramp in my calf. I can't stop laughing. And there are mechanical difficulties and a ton of
[5:07]possibilities. We're like bungling preschoolers with a shape sorter and you're shaking your head.
[5:12]That's never going to go in there. Oh my God. And I'm going to read because I'm too embarrassed to
[5:18]read like the rest of this passage. And then I'm going to fast forward into this other hilarious
[5:25]section where Raki goes to the doctor's office to talk about menopause and all of that. And she's
[5:31]talking about atrophy after menopause and all of that. And then Joe and Raki start talking about it.
[5:39]She's like, I'm going to think about it. But also how am I? I'll just say how am I a feminist
[5:43]an advocate for reproductive rights? Our bodies ourselves hear me roar blah blah. And I am only
[5:47]just now learning about vaginal atrophy. I don't know she said. And I could hear her side because
[5:52]they hate us, I guess. But also can we like can we just like call it at some point? I'm going to
[5:58]edit. We're sticking stuff. I'm going to actually stop here. I'll fast forward to this. I mean,
[6:05]could we take it all as a sign to just like give it a rest? Could we just not? I just sign
[6:12]ad for men who want to last longer. Who wants a guy to last longer? Finish up is my feeling. My
[6:17]library book's not going to read itself. I think that was my favorite. I was so funny. I'm not
[6:23]not laughing because I've already left so many times. And there's another scene where we've
[6:27]moved on from the sexual hilarity. And it's another poignant scene with her and her daughter.
[6:33]And she says, you good mom, Willis says now. And I turn from memory to face her. What is going
[6:38]on with you? I have a I have a diagnosed anxiety disorder. I really don't need another thing to
[6:42]worry about. Nick looks up from his magazine. Oh honey, I say, I'm sorry. Don't worry about me.
[6:47]I'm totally good. I'm so so happy to be here with you. This is how it is to love somebody.
[6:53]You tell them the truth. You lie a little. And sometimes you don't say anything at all.
[6:57]Oh, I love that part. Okay. So from the hilarious to the poignant discuss.
[7:04]Well, I think that is life as it's lived. I mean, not for me at least. I do feel like,
[7:12]you know, I talked to you about my other novel and that takes place in the hospice. And one of the
[7:17]things I was trying to communicate in that novel was how much even when you're in this really
[7:24]kind of precious, exalted space of somebody dying, they're still the tumble forward of daily life.
[7:33]Like it doesn't actually ever pause. And I feel that I was thinking that that's true in this
[7:40]book to that. On the one hand, she's having this. It's like, if she could stop time, she would.
[7:47]She wants her plans to be alive forever. She wants her kids to be only as grown as they are like
[7:54]once everyone with her that she's so greedy in that way. And of course, that's not happening.
[8:01]And even in the course of this week, that's not happening. So they're just tumbling forward in
[8:07]their body lives. Like people need to be fed. And the plumbing isn't working. And you know,
[8:13]there's just so much kind of daily comedy that I feel like is just life. Like everything just keeps
[8:21]being ridiculous. Like her father who's in his 90s just says hilarious thing after hilarious thing.
[8:29]Because that's how he is. You know, even though part of what she feels all the time is that she's
[8:34]is going to cry because she's not going to get to keep him from much longer. So I guess that is
[8:41]the mix for me. And the truth is that was the mix for me when the kids were babies too. Like
[8:47]that feeling of, you know, wanting every moment to be precious. But also it's that's not
[8:54]really how you live. You know, that also it's like the kids are like barfing in their car seat
[9:02]on a string cheese and then go to your meeting with like a string cheese melted into the back
[9:06]your skirt. And like all of the ways that life was just so kind of beautiful and also chaotic and
[9:14]also kind of terrible. I feel like it's that's just how it is maybe. I think you're right. I mean,
[9:24]is this just you putting your stuff into this character or is there is there a difference?
[9:29]No, it's just me putting myself. I'm not sure what I would it's funny. I was going to ask you
[9:39]the same thing about your book. I mean, I was just looking back at blank and thinking like PIPA
[9:47]your character who has so much in common with you. Right? Like a lot of structural things like
[9:56]she's the mom. She's getting to wear a seat.
[10:00]is in publishing, she's publishing a book.
[10:03]And I was gonna ask you something similar
[10:05]about kind of where you feel like
[10:08]if you consciously are like this,
[10:10]I'm lifting from life, this I'm making up.
[10:13]Or if it's just seamless for you as a process.
[10:16]Oh yeah, the whole thing's totally seamless the whole time.
[10:19]Ha ha ha ha ha, no.
[10:23]Thank you for asking me about it.
[10:25]Pippa's not divorced, though.
[10:26]So she's, we have that in common, but that's okay.
[10:29]But we have, you know, she isn't a really troubled marriage.
[10:33]I will say that.
[10:34]Oh, did I spoil her or not?
[10:37]You can type that out.
[10:38]I can't do that.
[10:38]I can't do that.
[10:39]Yeah, not even.
[10:41]Yeah, by the end she is.
[10:42]Yes, by the end she is.
[10:43]Okay, okay.
[10:44]So scratch that, pull that out.
[10:46]And keep it going.
[10:47]I'll take out the word divorce.
[10:48]Okay, but we do have a lot of COVID.
[10:51]I like to say that we would be very good friends.
[10:55]Is that what you say?
[10:56]Yeah, I say we're not the same person,
[10:58]but we would be very good friends.
[11:00]The things that events don't happen,
[11:03]but the way that she thinks about everything
[11:06]is how I sort of think about it inside.
[11:08]That's why I'm struggling with my next book.
[11:10]And I literally was just talking to my two-bit legend
[11:13]saying, you know, maybe I should just scrap my draft so far
[11:16]and just like write Pippa again.
[11:19]Because that's so much easier.
[11:21]Was it someone you know so well?
[11:23]Yeah.
[11:24]Right, yeah.
[11:26]Well, who is your next character?
[11:28]Was your next narrator not to say?
[11:30]No, no, I just, I might just like scrap my draft
[11:34]and start over.
[11:35]I don't know.
[11:36]I'm in like a down mood about the book today, but we'll see.
[11:37]I mean, but this character is so,
[11:39]she's different from your last character,
[11:40]but they both have, you know, they're both so funny.
[11:43]They haven't come in.
[11:45]She's a friend.
[11:46]I would, I'm not really sure.
[11:48]I have a really hard time writing fiction, I think.
[11:52]I think I'm not that imaginative.
[11:54]And even the things I make up
[11:56]that are sort of the inconsequential feel really false to me.
[11:59]So it's, it's this weird.
[12:02]It's really hard.
[12:03]Like I'm thinking about a next book
[12:05]and it is the same character.
[12:08]And like, well, I just give her a different name.
[12:11]And the kids will be the same kids.
[12:13]Like in one book that I made in a way.
[12:16]My son, Ben, was like, wow, it's me and birdieily.
[12:18]You made me a girl.
[12:19]I was like, I know.
[12:21]Like I can't visualize that much.
[12:24]You're making me feel a lot better.
[12:26]My kids literally, I read them the first couple of pages.
[12:29]And they were like, you didn't tell us it was about us.
[12:31]Right.
[12:32]Right.
[12:33]And you're like, no, but clothes.
[12:36]And also, all the best stuff is from your life.
[12:40]I'm going to call.
[12:41]Okay.
[12:42]Like that's what is so sparkling and real
[12:46]is everything you lift out of life.
[12:50]I mean, I, that's how I feel.
[12:53]Well, it almost doesn't matter if it's fiction or memoir,
[12:57]but if the writing is landing or like it doesn't matter
[13:03]to the reader, right?
[13:04]Like this could be your memoir.
[13:06]And it would, it would have the same effect.
[13:09]I mean, maybe not because I would know who you were,
[13:11]but very close.
[13:12]Yeah.
[13:13]No, no, it's true.
[13:14]I know.
[13:15]And then there's just, yeah, my parents read this book.
[13:18]And I was really nervous because there's a lot of humor
[13:23]that centered on how absurd they can be.
[13:28]And I was really worried about it because like what I hoped
[13:34]was that there would be no way to read this book,
[13:39]sandwich, without coming away with the sentence
[13:42]of how much shrockie adores them, right?
[13:45]Like that, I hope that that was the ringingest takeaway.
[13:51]Yep.
[13:51]That turned out to be true for them.
[13:53]And I was really worried that it wouldn't be.
[13:55]I was worried that my parents would be like,
[13:57]oh, you took a lot of pot shots at us
[13:59]and are like crappy memories and are like
[14:03]a realist way of being.
[14:04]And they were, they didn't feel that way.
[14:07]My dad said something in an email.
[14:11]Like there were elements of my personality
[14:15]that I recognized unhappily.
[14:18]So I was like, that's fair.
[14:22]You know, that's okay.
[14:23]I mean, but he, I feel like they got the gist of it overall
[14:26]and that meant a lot to me.
[14:28]You know, that they would meet me in good faith with that.
[14:31]And I felt that way about the kids too.
[14:33]The kids read it very lovingly.
[14:35]And Michael, who I'm married to,
[14:37]who keeps playing the same exact meant in everything I write.
[14:42]He's just so, so good to me to do about it.
[14:45]Like he feels like he always comes off
[14:48]like in great and he really doesn't care.
[14:50]So would you ever just write like,
[14:52]just take another piece of life after this
[14:54]and write a memoir next?
[14:57]Oh, a memoir now.
[14:58]I think I wrote some nonfiction when the kids were younger.
[15:03]And I first two books through parenting.
[15:05]I'm kind of parenting the bars.
[15:06]I think it's what the genre is called.
[15:09]And I feel like fiction gives me a little veil
[15:14]to hide behind that.
[15:16]It helps me like protect my people
[15:18]that everything, it's just not.
[15:21]So I don't think I could write like this about,
[15:25]I couldn't write like this about myself at this point.
[15:27]I don't feel like I could reveal my kids
[15:31]just completely, completely in a memoir.
[15:34]And I like the fiction allows you to conveniently
[15:38]make stuff up when it's, you know,
[15:41]like I feel like I like in blank,
[15:45]the central seat of the book itself is made up.
[15:51]And then I kind of is this anchoring fiction
[15:55]for the rest of it, you know, that,
[15:57]I don't know, there's something about that
[15:59]that I feel like is a really good mix,
[16:01]but all the feelings are real, all the relationships are real,
[16:05]but there's this kind of central fiction.
[16:07]And it's just like a little protective, I think.
[16:11]I like that.
[16:13]That's a good way to think of it.
[16:14]Are you gonna write another book next?
[16:17]I mean, are you, yeah, I want another book.
[16:21]I have this idea, I don't know,
[16:24]I haven't really talked about it.
[16:25]I have this idea about, I've been this maybe as TMI,
[16:29]but I've been in this crazily long diagnostic process
[16:34]of getting something that is an autoimmune disorder diagnosed.
[16:38]And I feel like everyone knows somebody
[16:40]who has been in this process
[16:43]where it's like, oh, they think it's this
[16:44]and then they think it's that.
[16:46]And I haven't been, especially ill,
[16:48]which is also part of the weird stuff
[16:51]that they saw weird stuff.
[16:54]You know, I got some bad blood work, whatever.
[16:56]And it has just mushroomed into this kind of profound mystery
[17:04]and this kind of diagnostic detective story.
[17:08]And it's really, it's been a really strange experience.
[17:11]And I want to write something about that,
[17:14]but I'll think I'm alive in so many months ago.
[17:19]So I think the doctor is a little bit
[17:23]some more different or I'm not really sure
[17:25]but there's something about like the,
[17:28]I think I have more to say about the secrets
[17:32]the body holds, you know, something else about,
[17:36]or sort of what it is to hit this age
[17:39]and like the end of, I want to say the end of youth.
[17:43]I mean, I realized that happened a while ago.
[17:48]I'm 55, it's not like my youth just ended,
[17:51]but there's something about this age
[17:54]where it's like, I feel like I'm on this different
[17:57]bodily path now, it's a little hard to explain
[18:00]but and it's a lot of the parts of it are pleasurable to me.
[18:05]Like I love, I actually really love not being
[18:10]reproductive age anymore.
[18:11]Like I never need to be pregnant again.
[18:14]I finally feel that way, you know, like I don't,
[18:17]so there are a lot of good things.
[18:18]But I feel like I think I want to write something
[18:21]about like a medical mystery.
[18:23]And there's a book that came out a couple years ago
[18:26]called, oh my God, what's a call in my brain,
[18:29]talk about medical odds.
[18:30]This is where things just fall out of it
[18:33]where it's just like a sieve and the things are water
[18:35]and they're just pouring through and nothing's catching
[18:38]because somehow it's called invisible kingdom.
[18:44]Oh yeah, that was so good.
[18:46]Yep, so good.
[18:48]And that book, which is the kind of book I love,
[18:51]it has that quality of that book, beautiful boy
[18:54]that's part journalism part memoir.
[18:57]And invisible kingdom is that same like journalism
[19:01]and memoir.
[19:02]And I feel like I want to write a book
[19:04]and it's like that fiction.
[19:09]That's like the same thing only instead of like journalism
[19:13]and memoir, it's like memoir and fiction
[19:15]or journalism and fiction.
[19:17]Yeah, I like it, yeah, but we'll see.
[19:20]I'm in started writing it.
[19:21]And I feel like maybe heading it into like an election
[19:24]and there are just maybe things that make it
[19:27]like this isn't the right time to write a book.
[19:29]I may have to write it at the beginning of next year.
[19:32]That's what I'm thinking.
[19:33]Like are you ready every day?
[19:35]No, okay.
[19:37]No, I'm gonna be totally late.
[19:39]I'm really, I was supposed to have my book.
[19:42]I've never done one.
[19:43]Yeah, my deadline is July.
[19:44]It's May.
[19:45]It's not gonna happen.
[19:46]It's not gonna happen because you got a two book deal
[19:49]or you already, you just sold this book straight out.
[19:52]I sold it right before blank came out
[19:54]but I had to write, I wrote like a 60 page outline.
[19:57]So I know sort of everything that's gonna happen.
[20:00]And I've written, I've written like 16,000 words,
[20:03]but I have to write the rest.
[20:05]I have to write the rest in like two minutes.
[20:08]So much.
[20:09]Okay, you're not gonna write it in two months,
[20:11]but you've done a ton of it.
[20:13]You've won the Harvard as pirates.
[20:15]I don't know.
[20:16]It's okay.
[20:17]That's how I'm feeling very discouraged.
[20:19]Oh, I totally know.
[20:21]And also you're so busy to carve out the time you need.
[20:26]I feel like rating time has to be this.
[20:29]Like just bubble.
[20:31]It just has to be that way.
[20:33]I would like to finish this tour.
[20:35]But just like to finish the tour.
[20:37]But I'll get there.
[20:38]But this is not about me.
[20:39]This is supposed to be about you.
[20:41]It is.
[20:41]It is about me.
[20:43]I'm just like bringing your brain on the sly.
[20:46]Oh, I don't know.
[20:47]I love hearing what you're saying about writing fiction,
[20:50]because it's how I feel about writing fiction,
[20:52]which is that I don't really know how to write fiction.
[20:55]And I don't have that great in imagination.
[20:57]So I'm just like kind of riffing on reality very quickly.
[21:04]And that's why I'm struggling with these new kids.
[21:06]And how can I make them different?
[21:09]Have you ever read a book about how to write a novel?
[21:13]Because I have.
[21:15]I haven't.
[21:16]But my editor has suggested it.
[21:26]Yeah, thanks.
[21:27]I was like, I'm not going to read a book about how to write a novel,
[21:30]which of course I should.
[21:32]I mean, I've taken lots of classes over the last 25 years
[21:35]or something.
[21:36]But I'm like, I'm just going to wing it.
[21:38]And then we can fix it together.
[21:41]I really shortbook about how to write a novel,
[21:44]because it turned out I didn't know anything
[21:46]about plotting or pasting.
[21:48]And then I have to read a really short book about it.
[21:50]And then that was helpful.
[21:52]What book did you read?
[21:54]It's called Take Off Your Bants, or Put On Your Bants.
[21:58]What?
[21:59]Yeah.
[21:59]Well, are you sure it's about writing?
[22:02]It's like, there's two styles of writers, people
[22:07]who plot everything, people who pants, everything.
[22:10]Eat of their pants, I think, is the gist of it.
[22:13]Like, do you divide the seat of your pants,
[22:15]or do you plot it all?
[22:16]And I think this book is advocating for plotting,
[22:20]or knowing sort of where your book is
[22:22]how to before you start writing it.
[22:23]And so I think it's called Take Off Your Pants.
[22:28]I can't remember.
[22:29]It's very short.
[22:30]And it looks like a ridiculous little book.
[22:32]But I found it incredibly useful.
[22:34]Like, it helped me understand a little bit about narrative
[22:37]structure, which I should not even be admitting,
[22:41]because I read more than anyone I know except for you.
[22:46]Like, I just know how a book is structured.
[22:50]I would be like a billion novels a year.
[22:53]But yet, I have to get a little book out of work.
[22:57]Yes, she recommended I read Skin The Cat,
[22:59]or something Skin The Cat, but I didn't read it.
[23:01]We all have these names like this.
[23:03]That are illusions to some like idiom we don't even know.
[23:09]It would be funny to take off your pants book, like, wrap it.
[23:14]And then, you know, with a crowded house
[23:17]for like the weekend, like someone gets this book,
[23:19]and who gave it to them, like, you know, right?
[23:23]It starts disrupting everyone's marriage,
[23:25]and then at the end it's like, wait, what?
[23:27]That's what was going on.
[23:29]That's my writing book, you know.
[23:30]But you're a novelist.
[23:31]I know.
[23:34]I do.
[23:35]That would be funny.
[23:36]Well, you can write that book.
[23:39]All right, I'll write that book.
[23:41]Well, I'm definitely not asking you for advice.
[23:43]That's not writing.
[23:45]I'm kidding.
[23:47]Definitely don't.
[23:48]I don't know what to say.
[23:49]Don't we about some of the millions of books?
[23:51]Is there anything that you have been obsessed with lately
[23:54]that you've read?
[23:55]Yes, finished a book called Leaving by Roxanna Robinson.
[24:00]Has it?
[24:00]Oh, yeah, that was beautiful.
[24:01]Read it.
[24:03]I loved it.
[24:05]I might read it again just to understand that
[24:08]it's paced so beautifully.
[24:12]It's like she really takes her time.
[24:14]I always feel like I have to rush through everything
[24:16]or I'm going to lose everybody.
[24:17]That's my feeling.
[24:19]Like, I have to be really quick in and out
[24:21]write a short book that moves really quickly
[24:24]because otherwise people are going to fall asleep
[24:26]or put it down and never pick it up again.
[24:29]And that book, it's not that it's so long.
[24:31]I mean, it's like 300 pages, the regular length,
[24:34]but it was so exquisite.
[24:36]Like it was so just moved through this beautiful story
[24:41]and I loved it.
[24:43]What about you?
[24:44]But you know, I loved it too.
[24:45]But you and Roxanna Robinson are like totally different people.
[24:48]Do you know what I mean?
[24:49]Like she talks like that too.
[24:52]Oh, does that's what she's talking about?
[24:54]Yeah, yeah.
[24:55]Well, I'll send you the link to the podcast.
[24:56]Oh, so much on it.
[24:57]Yeah, but she's lovely and thoughtful and not that you're not.
[25:07]You're hilarious and honest and open and real.
[25:11]And they're different things.
[25:13]You bring different things to a conversation
[25:15]and you bring different things to a book.
[25:16]And that's why it's great that we all can read
[25:18]all these different types of books
[25:19]and be friends with different types of people, right?
[25:22]That's a really good point.
[25:23]I know it is funny that I would like suddenly really idolize
[25:26]somebody who is really different from me.
[25:29]That's not gonna be super useful.
[25:31]No, I look longingly at beautiful paragraphs
[25:36]or like new ways to describe, you know, a napkin or something.
[25:40]Like it's beautiful, but like maybe not.
[25:43]That's not my superpower.
[25:46]What about you?
[25:47]Have you read anything great in the last couple of weeks?
[25:49]Have you read Animal Moynihan's new book?
[25:51]That's really fun.
[25:52]No, oh, summer romance.
[25:54]You have to read it.
[25:55]Okay.
[25:55]Okay.
[25:56]On my radar, I really enjoyed it.
[25:59]I sometimes feel like like a jerk,
[26:01]I'm just waiting for people to send me review copies.
[26:04]And if they don't, I like forget to get it, you know what I mean?
[26:08]It's not out yet.
[26:09]It's not out yet.
[26:09]No, I know, but I want it like a galley.
[26:12]I'll ask her or I'll send you mine.
[26:14]If I, let me say, I'll look after this.
[26:16]I have it somewhere.
[26:17]I might have already lent it to someone
[26:19]because it's really where it might be.
[26:20]Well, you just reached out to her.
[26:22]I just, you know, I'm so used to as I'm sure you do.
[26:25]I get probably one, one hundredth of the books
[26:28]in the mail that you get.
[26:29]And still, like they're just piled up all over the place.
[26:33]And if I want to read something that's not in that pile,
[26:36]it's really shocking to me.
[26:38]Yeah.
[26:38]Well, we'll get this in your pile.
[26:40]Okay. Thank you.
[26:42]Well, thank you.
[26:43]This was such a fun conversation.
[26:45]We're like all over the place is a perfect,
[26:47]it's like a perfect sandwich conversation.
[26:49]It's perfect.
[26:50]It's a perfect compliment to this book.
[26:52]So anyway, thank you so much.
[26:54]Bye, feel better.
[26:56]Thank you.
[26:57]Bye. Bye.
[26:57]Bye.
[26:59]Thanks for listening to Mom's Don't Have Time to Read books.
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