Zibby's Summer Reads: Parenting stuff! Debby Herbenick, YES, YOUR KID: What Parents Need to Know about Today's Teens and Sex
[0:02]Hi, I'm Zippy Owens, and I am the host of this podcast, Mom's Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[0:08]I am also a newly minted USA Today best-selling author of the novel, Blake,
[0:14]and created a whole community of book lovers around this podcast, a publishing company,
[0:19]reading retreats, a bookstore, and more. Learn more at ZippyMedia.com or follow me on social
[0:25]at Zippy Owens or join the community at ZippyRidders. Debbie Herbanic is the author of Yes Your Kid,
[0:34]What Parents Need to Know About Today's Teens and Sex.
[0:38]Dr. Debbie Herbanic is a provost professor at the Indiana University School of Public Health
[0:43]in internationally recognized sexuality researcher and educator, and the author of Yes Your Kid.
[0:48]She has published more than 200 scientific articles about sexuality and is especially focused
[0:54]on adolescent and young adult sexual development. FYI, if you have 18-nature or young adult,
[1:00]you must listen to this. Okay, welcome Dr. Herbanic. I am delighted to welcome you on
[1:05]Mom's Don't Have Time to Read Books to discuss Yes Your Kid. Plus, What Parents Need to Know
[1:10]About Today's Teens and Sex. Plus, how to talk to your child about communication, consent,
[1:16]sexting, and pornography. That is quite a subtitle, by the way. Well done.
[1:21]It's toned down from what it was. Oh my gosh. I love this. Yes Your Kid, right? Because
[1:27]it's always someone's kid, right? That's good. You know, we all think it's not our kids who are up to
[1:32]anyway. Okay, first explain why you're the expert who should be read who wrote this book and why you
[1:39]and all that. Sure, I'm a sexuality researcher and educator at Indiana University School of Public
[1:45]Health. And I've been in sex research for about 25 years. And I study population level,
[1:52]sexual health and behavior, meaning the trends in the United States of what people are doing and
[1:56]thinking about and how they feel about their sexual lives. And in recent years, I've noted a lot
[2:02]of trends that it felt like both as a researcher and a mom. I was realizing many of my friends
[2:09]didn't know about and and should and really once they knew about found that that changed their
[2:14]parenting. So I wanted to share that with with other parents. And maybe you wanted your friends
[2:18]to stop calling you in the middle of the night with their questions. See, could we like just read
[2:22]the book, please? You know, yeah, it's a combination of, but they still call, they still tax,
[2:26]they still pull me aside at parties. And I and I do love that part of my relationship with friends too,
[2:31]but it's there's a lot to learn for all of us as parents. Can I just jump ahead to something
[2:36]that's been in the news lately that I want to just ask you about, which is this new choking
[2:41]thing that's going on? How kids are incorporating choking into sex and that that's like a normal
[2:47]thing? Can you talk about that? It is. And so that comes from our research. And we've been
[2:52]studying this trend for several years now and finding that it has become very normative by the time
[2:58]that kids are 18, at least in our college studies, more than half of them report having choked or
[3:04]been choked at that point. And so a pretty sizable portion of them start between ages 12 and 17.
[3:11]And you know, they're not bad kids. They're not, you know, they're not out to hurt other people
[3:16]in nearly all cases. Most of the time they are getting the message that this is just what people do
[3:22]during sex. And even during making out, so I should even just say sex, but even seeing and making
[3:27]out stages. So starting some high school, sometimes even in middle school. And they see it in
[3:33]pornography. They see it in popular TV shows and in movies. And they hear about it in some of the most
[3:38]popular songs in the country these days on social media. They talk about learning about it in
[3:43]TikTok video. So I mean, it's really pervasive in their media, which reflects that they're really
[3:48]a product of their culture rather than focusing on the specific type of sex for any personal
[3:54]reason. If that makes sense. Interesting. So somehow I have missed the consumption of all of
[4:00]that. Right. This is clearly targeted to a different age demographic. Right. When and how did
[4:06]did it sneak in? And I don't want to dominate the whole conversation. But I'm curious. This seems
[4:10]like what all the moms of kids my age are sort of chatting about right now. It is. Yeah. We think
[4:15]it probably started the uptick around 15 or so years ago. The really blowing up phase of that,
[4:21]because around 15 years ago, of course, we had the rise of smartphones, which made pornography much
[4:26]more accessible. We had the rise of multiple social media platforms, which made everybody the
[4:31]expert that they could share information to people. And I think, you know, as a researcher and as a
[4:36]mom, one of the things that I noticed when we were doing this work is we would interview these young
[4:41]people. And we would say, well, how did you first learn about choking? What are your early memories
[4:45]of this? And we had several young women who said, well, you know, the memes. And I thought, what
[4:49]what memes? And you know, again, like, how did I miss this? Because I'm on social media. And as a
[4:54]sex researcher and educator, I follow sex related accounts. And I see none of these. But what was
[5:00]really striking to me was when I asked my PhD students who are much younger than I am,
[5:04]they also hadn't seen the choking memes. So it also underscored for me how the media
[5:12]so siloed, right? We see certain things based on our own patterns, our own algorithms,
[5:17]but we miss so much because it's not directed to us. So we hadn't seen those memes. But once we
[5:24]actually knew to look for them, we found hundreds within a few minutes. We just had to know the
[5:30]terms to use. And then there they were. And so and the same things, right, with the TikTok videos,
[5:35]if you're not looking at certain types of media to begin with, and you're not the right demographic,
[5:40]you will not see the same things on TikTok that your teenager sees, even if you're both
[5:44]on TikTok as part of an agreement, right? That we're going to follow you and we're going to be
[5:48]part of each other's network. Well, it doesn't mean you're going to see the same things that they
[5:52]see. And isn't part of the danger that there's long-term damage to the brain through the choking
[5:57]episodes or there can be, obviously. Yeah, there can be. Yeah, there can be. And so it's part of
[6:04]what we're studying. I have a colleague who's a neuroscientist and we've already started some some
[6:08]lab work that's been in some of the articles about our work. And so and it makes sense. I mean,
[6:12]there's actually a vast research on strangulation, which is what choking technically is because
[6:17]it's external pressure to the neck and it reduces blood flow and or airflow to the brain.
[6:23]And so there's this vast research on strangulation that tells us about risks to the
[6:28]crowded arteries and the neck, which can elevate your stroke risk down the road about risk to
[6:34]you know, the brain in lots of different ways in terms of your ability to kind of organize tasks,
[6:39]what we call executive function. I mean, one of the physicians when we were doing this work,
[6:43]he said, wow, you know, here's all these parents spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on their
[6:48]kids' education and they don't know that their kids are doing these things that are kind of
[6:52]counteracting, right? All of their efforts to to support their brain and their learning and their
[6:59]memories because the kids themselves don't know that these things can have an impact on their brain.
[7:03]I mean, your brain needs not just oxygen, but glucose, glucose is in that nice blood. It's food
[7:08]for the brain. That's what I tell my college students. So it we really want to keep that, you know,
[7:12]your brain getting the energy and food that it needs. So as part of your work, in addition to
[7:19]doing all the research, making sure people know like the dangers about these things, like do you
[7:24]feel like that is what drives a lot of your work? It is. I mean, to be honest, it's why I wrote the book
[7:30]and there are other benefits of it too, certainly because I am somebody who grew up in a home
[7:35]without a lot of sex education. And so in some ways, I wrote the book that I wished my parents,
[7:40]you know, had had when they were raising me to give them the confidence that they could talk with me
[7:44]about periods and bras and my big feelings around crushes and all of those things that really
[7:50]nobody talked with me about. So most of the book is not about the scarier, you know, kinds of
[7:55]issues. It's about all of those other conversations. But I also in seeing what I was seeing in my
[7:59]research thought the world has changed a lot. Most of us are raising kids in a world that we don't
[8:05]really have firsthand experience in. And so there are also dedicated chapters as you
[8:10]are around staying and talking with kids about pornography. But that direct education to me
[8:15]is really critical because most people will not read our research in the journals,
[8:20]but we want it to live in the world and make people's families and kids safer.
[8:25]Well, one of the things you do so well is give parents the tools to just start conversations.
[8:31]And I'm like, I love this. This is and these parenting tips apply not just to talking about
[8:38]sex and difficult topics with your kids, but really anything that is tricky, like when they ask you,
[8:43]and I have four kids ranging from nine to almost 17. So I get all sorts of questions. And sometimes
[8:48]they come at the most random times. And I'm like, this is one of those moments where I should have
[8:52]some sort of prepared answer to this or how do I answer this question? And like, my God, why now?
[8:58]But anyway, when you suggest that we say things like, you know, that's a great question or,
[9:04]well, you know, what do you what do you already know about this? Like let's talk about it or,
[9:08]you know, all that is so important. So what are what are like the most important things for
[9:13]parents to know when facing the questions that come in all shapes and sizes?
[9:19]Yeah, I think it's important to know that you don't have to know everything. We're not going
[9:23]to know everything. I'm a sex researcher and educator and sometimes my kids still ask me things
[9:28]that are new to me because times have changed, right? So it's okay not to know everything.
[9:32]Also to go ahead and try to take that beat, right? With like the, oh, good question or wherever
[9:38]you heard about that. I mean, not only does that reassure the child and like supports their curiosity,
[9:43]but it does buy you some time as a parent to maybe take your deep breaths. And sometimes I have
[9:48]to take those deep breaths too. And, you know, I think sometimes of the time I was taking my kid
[9:53]as my older one when she was younger to a tennis class. But I work at university and we were
[9:58]driving through campus and there was some-
[10:00]lines all throughout campus about, you know,
[10:02]April is sexual assault awareness month.
[10:04]And my daughter was just reading then
[10:06]and she said, what is sexual assault?
[10:08]Well, I wasn't planning to answer that question on that day.
[10:11]But I said, yeah, you know, you can read that.
[10:13]What a great question and answer that in the most age
[10:17]appropriate way that I felt like I could
[10:19]with just enough information.
[10:21]And that's another part is just answer the question
[10:24]that you were asked.
[10:25]Don't feel like you have to give a big monologue.
[10:28]Very often when you answer that question,
[10:30]they're going to move on to some other topic.
[10:32]If they still need more information,
[10:34]they're almost certainly going to ask for it.
[10:36]So I think supporting their curiosity,
[10:38]knowing you can do it, making sure that you do it.
[10:42]Don't let the awkwardness keep you from talking
[10:44]with your kids about their ease and puberty
[10:46]and sexuality and the hard topics.
[10:48]One of the tips that I suggest is, you know,
[10:51]what we call five minutes a week.
[10:52]And so I have lots of different tips in the book
[10:54]for different styles of families.
[10:55]But some of my friends have taken that one on
[10:57]and they really do just take five minutes a week.
[11:00]They set a timer and they say, you know,
[11:02]I care so much about you.
[11:03]I love you.
[11:04]I want you to have like a rich wonderful, you know,
[11:06]relationship and so on one day
[11:08]and you need information for that.
[11:10]And so I know it's awkward,
[11:12]but for five minutes a week, we're just going to talk.
[11:13]And when the timer ends, we can, we can be done.
[11:16]And if you still want to talk, we can.
[11:17]And very often the kids end up getting to a place
[11:20]where they do want to keep talking.
[11:22]One of my other favorite strategies came from a colleague
[11:25]who's she and her husband are both kind of in adjacent fields.
[11:28]You know, ones of physician
[11:29]and the other ones of sex educator.
[11:31]But none of their teenagers wanted to talk to them about sex.
[11:34]And so they realized though that their kids
[11:37]eavesdropping on grown up conversation.
[11:39]So they stopped trying to talk to their teens about sex.
[11:42]And they started just kind of intentionally having
[11:44]these amazing conversations with each other
[11:46]that then within minutes their teenagers
[11:48]to say, wait, what are you talking about?
[11:49]What's close to you?
[11:50]Why is it, you know, why is it going up in our community?
[11:53]And so they used to sort of eavesdropping style
[11:56]or like letting the kids listen in
[11:58]and that worked for their family.
[12:00]That's a good one.
[12:01]I'm like that, sneaking it in.
[12:04]What are some of the other trends that you're seeing
[12:07]that we as parents need to be aware of?
[12:11]Yeah, I mean, I think certainly being aware
[12:13]of all the things happening on social media
[12:15]with adults trying to get to our kids.
[12:18]And a lot of, you know, the New York Times, Washington Post,
[12:20]Wall Street Journal have all been covering those in recent years.
[12:23]So I'd pay attention to them,
[12:24]but they are things like, you know,
[12:26]some sex distortion related scams.
[12:28]And this has happened to families I know where, you know,
[12:30]with a lot of care and thought and conversation
[12:33]and a parent monitoring app, they finally let,
[12:35]you know, their 13 or 14 year old on Snapchat.
[12:37]And with a day or two, he got, you know,
[12:39]multiple requests for either, you know,
[12:42]will send you pictures if you send us, you know,
[12:44]$40 or a gift card, or even asking him for pictures.
[12:47]So there really are organized groups out there
[12:49]on the internet that have found ways to vary quickly.
[12:52]I mean, within days of getting on some of these platforms,
[12:56]reach out to your kids.
[12:57]So I do think there's benefit, especially for younger teens
[13:00]with having these parent monitoring apps, you know,
[13:03]the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children
[13:05]recently expanded their section on sex distortion.
[13:09]And they have phenomenal age-appropriate videos
[13:11]for middle schoolers and high schoolers that explain
[13:15]whether from peers or adults, you know,
[13:17]tricky times or people might be asking them for things
[13:20]and sort of to have to spot the red flags.
[13:23]So I think those can be really important.
[13:24]Even with younger, you know, tweens and teens talking
[13:27]with them about AI and making sure they know
[13:29]not to be creating fake images of their classmates.
[13:32]And as it's, you know,
[13:34]feels age-appropriate making sure that includes
[13:36]no like naked pictures of your classmates.
[13:39]Because kids don't need strong text skills.
[13:42]And they really just need one or two pictures
[13:44]of their classmates just in regular clothes
[13:46]to feed into these things.
[13:48]And there have been, you know,
[13:49]I've been giving talks on this lately.
[13:51]And it's so easy to find these headlines
[13:54]if you look on the internet with all these middle schoolers
[13:57]and high schoolers being, you know,
[13:59]having now interactions with the police
[14:00]because they've taken and distributed AI-created images
[14:04]of, and it's almost always affecting the girls
[14:07]in their class and distributing them.
[14:09]So in dates, we've seen these legal cases now.
[14:12]So I think just really letting them know, yeah,
[14:13]you know, it's kind of an interesting time right now
[14:15]with technology, but we still have to like come back
[14:17]to our core values, right?
[14:19]And talking about this core values as a family
[14:22]about being safe, being a good friend,
[14:24]not wanting to, you know, to bully other kids
[14:27]or put them in these awkward situations,
[14:30]respecting their boundaries.
[14:31]We don't make or take pictures of other kids
[14:35]or teenagers, you know, making them look,
[14:37]you know, nude whether or not they really were.
[14:39]And talking about the impact that can have on other kids
[14:43]so that we come back to their good side
[14:45]and we appeal to their good side
[14:47]that we want them and we know they wanna be
[14:50]carrying respectful good friends and classmates
[14:54]because really kids are good kids, right?
[14:56]And they do have that, but it can be easy
[14:58]to get sucked into games and peer pressure.
[15:02]This is very troubling.
[15:03]I mean, good to know, but it's hard.
[15:06]I mean, there are so many dangers that we can know
[15:09]and worry about.
[15:11]And then these are some that I wasn't even like worrying
[15:14]about actively, which I'm now gonna add to the list.
[15:16]You know, like what if your kid decides to,
[15:19]I mean, you know, it's just part of parenting, right?
[15:22]There's just like always more things,
[15:24]always more threats and dangers
[15:25]and our ability to protect our kids is limited
[15:29]and it just, you know, slaps you over the head
[15:32]when you hear more things that are now coming at them.
[15:37]It is.
[15:38]I mean, it's daunting.
[15:39]You know, I have a friend with a college age kid now
[15:41]who recently said to me, wow, our relationship is so different
[15:44]now that I don't have to be the media police anymore, right?
[15:46]She's now in a phase where she's an adult
[15:49]and she makes her own choices.
[15:50]And I thought it was, you know, really interesting
[15:52]perspective, right?
[15:53]On most of us, when we went into parenting,
[15:56]we didn't expect, we were thinking about reading books
[15:58]to our kids, but like babies, we weren't thinking
[16:01]about being media police for, you know, five to 10 years.
[16:05]And so that's difficult, but also thinking
[16:08]to about the many upsides.
[16:09]I mean, I love, love, love,
[16:12]talking with kids about crushes and the new feelings
[16:15]that they have.
[16:16]And even though there's trauma sometimes
[16:18]with relationship issues, it's such an honor
[16:21]to support young people in their journey, right?
[16:24]And to help them understand that breakups happen
[16:27]to everyone and rejection happens to everyone
[16:29]and also help them heal and help them learn to express
[16:32]like loving and positive and exciting feelings.
[16:35]So there are a lot of daunting moments
[16:38]but I think the upsides are still overwhelmingly,
[16:41]you know, what's there for us to connect to as well.
[16:44]And how has all of your work helped your own family
[16:47]and your own parenting?
[16:49]I mean, I've, you know, I've been in this field
[16:50]for so long, so it's just part of who I am now,
[16:53]even though I was raised as somebody who didn't,
[16:55]you know, talk about any of these things growing up.
[16:58]So I think it's helped me a lot
[17:00]because we raise our kids in a really fact-based way.
[17:04]We answer the questions that were asked.
[17:06]They have always been the kids who are younger ages new,
[17:09]the correct names for all the body parts
[17:11]and, you know, vulva and penis and could talk about things.
[17:15]And, you know, we have lots of fun memories
[17:17]of hearing them being really little
[17:19]and, you know, wanting and playing games
[17:21]and talking about somebody with their baby
[17:23]like an imaginary game and, oh, who's their husband?
[17:26]They don't have a husband.
[17:27]Well, how are they having a baby?
[17:28]Are they using sperm donation?
[17:30]You know, like here, like, yeah, there's like, oh,
[17:32]but, you know, we always, we always answer questions
[17:35]factually and we have friends who, you know,
[17:38]they clearly say at young ages, well, how did they
[17:41]have a baby because they're two moms?
[17:43]And so they wouldn't have sperm.
[17:44]So we would just explain, you know, sperm donation.
[17:48]So I think what is, and it's like, it's not a big deal, right?
[17:51]It's just, it's just, that's how that happens, okay?
[17:54]So I think it's helped us raise, you know,
[17:57]it's helped us have a family environment
[17:59]where we hope our kids continue to always feel
[18:02]like they can ask us questions.
[18:05]We hope that they always feel like they can be supported
[18:09]in their curiosity.
[18:11]We know that things will not always be easy,
[18:13]but and we won't always have the answers,
[18:16]but we will find ways to get them the answers
[18:19]in ways that support their development.
[18:21]So it has helped me feel more confident,
[18:23]even though at times, the things I'm finding
[18:25]in my research scared me as well and worried me as well.
[18:29]Well, what if you're just totally mortified
[18:32]to discuss things?
[18:34]Like, it's awkward and uncomfortable
[18:37]like what if your limitations
[18:39]certain person get in the way of your parenting?
[18:41]That happens.
[18:42]So I think, you know, for the things I do
[18:44]is point out places where you might put sticky notes.
[18:47]There are some conversations that even
[18:48]the most comfortable parents might say,
[18:51]yeah, I could talk about this with a friend,
[18:52]but I don't wanna talk about this with my kid.
[18:54]But it doesn't mean they shouldn't know it.
[18:56]So, you know, put in some mark those pages
[18:59]if they're, you know, an older teenager
[19:01]and you feel like the book is something
[19:02]that you're fine with them reading.
[19:03]Get them age appropriate resources
[19:05]and I have a whole section in the back of yes or kid
[19:08]for, you know, books of different ages and stages
[19:11]from picture books for young kids about consent and boundaries
[19:14]to puberty age books and then high school age books.
[19:17]So sharing books so that they have that information
[19:20]if they have that in a book,
[19:22]they are less likely to feel like they need to go
[19:24]on the internet to search the, or get that from a friend.
[19:27]The other thing we've done since the youngest ages
[19:30]is really use the idea of the safety network, right?
[19:32]And it's not just about good touch bad touch.
[19:34]I want my kids at all ages and stages to know
[19:37]who other grownups are, whether in our family or friend circle,
[19:40]who I trust to answer their questions.
[19:43]And so even if there's something
[19:44]that they may not wanna come to me with one day,
[19:47]I want them to have a few other adults,
[19:49]whether they're on some uncles
[19:51]or some of my really good friends,
[19:53]that they know that they can go to.
[19:54]So pointing out those people for your kids.
[19:57]I love that.
[19:58]Giving everybody, I did this one, mate.
[20:00]older kids were young.
[20:01]I typed up a, I didn't type it up.
[20:03]I hand wrote a phone list.
[20:05]I put by the landlines with everyone's pictures
[20:08]when they were really little.
[20:09]You can call any of your grandparents
[20:11]and you're their pictures and phone numbers.
[20:13]But that was so long ago.
[20:14]And now I should do that again
[20:16]with here people to go to the questions
[20:18]and blah, blah, blah.
[20:21]Anyway, good tips, lots of good tips.
[20:24]Do you see more books in your future?
[20:26]And what do you really wanna write a book about next?
[20:28]I mean, right now I'm really focused on the research.
[20:30]And so I've written some books before.
[20:32]It may be that when another book comes to mind later on,
[20:35]but all of this stuff is still shifting and evolving.
[20:38]And there are a lot more challenging things happening.
[20:41]I hate to say that we're kind of just starting
[20:44]to get into other research.
[20:45]So my mind is really focused on that these days,
[20:48]but I still do a lot of community talks for parents
[20:52]and kids of different ages and stages.
[20:54]Wait, what's something that you were just talking
[20:58]like kind of gressed, you're just in horror
[20:59]and like something you're researching.
[21:01]Can you give me a sneak peek?
[21:03]Do you wanna sneak peek really?
[21:05]It's so, start and I'll stop you if I can't take it.
[21:09]Yeah, I mean, it's just other forms of rough sex
[21:11]that we're seeing.
[21:12]And so one of the ones that there are two
[21:15]that we're really focusing on,
[21:16]one is that young adults, so I say,
[21:19]when I say young adults in this case,
[21:20]it's 18 to 24 year olds.
[21:21]And this came up from my college.
[21:23]And so just kept bringing this up in recent years
[21:25]as they would say, why are guys always slapping your vulva?
[21:29]And I said, are they slapping, you know,
[21:32]is this happening?
[21:33]And all it took was one student to mention that
[21:36]and the class really just erupted in conversation about that.
[21:40]So we put that in a nationally representative survey
[21:42]that we conducted recently.
[21:44]And I thought, is this really happening at the scale
[21:46]that I think it is?
[21:47]And we found that one in four of these young adult women
[21:50]reported having their vulva slapped,
[21:53]quote unquote, with consent,
[21:55]which usually doesn't mean any discussion or conversation.
[21:58]My students describe like no discussion or conversation,
[22:00]but in acceptance that this is just how things are.
[22:03]Like this is just what happens during hookups.
[22:06]So that's a little unusual.
[22:07]We're seeing some of it with young men
[22:09]too, like happening to them,
[22:10]but mostly happening to young women.
[22:12]And talk with the young men,
[22:14]they tell us they're doing it because they've heard
[22:16]that blood flows to the genitals when a woman's aroused,
[22:19]which is true.
[22:20]And so their idea is that by slapping the vulva
[22:23]that it increases blood flow.
[22:25]or arousal.
[22:26]And that is not a good idea.
[22:29]And most of our students, women students don't like that.
[22:34]So it's an unusual thing that's happening.
[22:36]The thing that worries me more though
[22:38]is something called consensual non-consantor CNC.
[22:41]And a lot of young adults and older teenagers
[22:44]will know what this is.
[22:46]I find that when undergrads, for example,
[22:49]are interviewing to work in our lab,
[22:51]and I tell them about the studies that we're doing.
[22:53]And I say, we're doing this one on CNC.
[22:54]And before I can even explain what it is,
[22:56]they're like, oh yeah, I heard a podcast about that the other day.
[22:59]And consensual non-consant can look like a lot
[23:02]of different things in a Kincher BDSM community.
[23:04]But the common way we see that young people hearing about it
[23:07]and trying it out is essentially role-playing
[23:09]a rape scenario.
[23:11]And so, and they're not really talking it through
[23:13]in the detail that one would in a Kincher BDSM situation.
[23:17]So it's really just sort of, I've heard of this.
[23:19]I'd like to try it.
[23:20]They agree to try it.
[23:22]And it involves really a much higher level
[23:24]of aggression in many cases than in their normal
[23:28]intimate or sexual lives.
[23:29]And some of them feel like it goes all right,
[23:32]but many of them don't.
[23:33]And so we've been doing a lot more research on that.
[23:36]And we found that about 10% of college students report
[23:39]having engaged in some kind of CNC.
[23:42]So that is, you know, it's not nearly as prevalent
[23:46]as the choking, which is around two-thirds
[23:48]of college women report having been choked,
[23:50]which is just to me a very, very high number.
[23:52]I mean, in my generation and previous generations,
[23:55]it would have been like 1%, that just wasn't happening.
[23:59]So, and we have some concerns right that people are using
[24:02]that to kind of gaslight others.
[24:04]We've heard, you know, reports for somebody has an assault
[24:06]that is very clear to them, this was an assault.
[24:09]And then the person says, oh no, that was just, you know,
[24:12]playful, it was just, it was a role play.
[24:14]I was just pretending.
[24:15]And so they can use that as a cover
[24:18]because it's becoming a bit more of a practice
[24:21]that they hear about, especially on TikTok
[24:23]from people who seem to be about their age
[24:26]or a little bit older.
[24:27]Okay, great.
[24:28]The list, the list, the list, the list.
[24:30]I'm sure you wanted to hear.
[24:32]No, I am sure.
[24:33]I'd much rather know and be able to have the conversations
[24:36]and be on the lookout and, you know, just be aware.
[24:39]I mean, I think awareness is so important for us as parents
[24:42]and just people in the world and all that.
[24:44]So, thank you for sharing.
[24:46]Well, well, thank you so much for coming on.
[24:49]It's so interesting, so, so important
[24:52]to hear everything you have to say.
[24:53]There's so much more in the book, of course,
[24:55]but this just scratches the surface.
[24:57]So, yes, you're a kid.
[24:59]What parents need to know about today's teens and sex
[25:01]must read.
[25:02]Thanks for coming on.
[25:03]Thank you so much.
[25:05]Okay, have a great day.
[25:06]Thanks, you too.
[25:07]Bye-bye.
[25:10]Thanks for listening to Mom's Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[25:13]If you love it, please leave a review and follow us
[25:15]on social at City Owens and at City Readers.