A Zibby Summer Reads pick: Middle Grade Novels! Hena Khan, DRAWING DEENA
[0:02]Hi, I'm Zippy Owens, and I am the host of this podcast, Mom's Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[0:08]I am also a newly minted USA Today best-selling author of the novel, Blake.
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[0:31]Henna Khan is the author of Drawing Dina. She has been publishing books for children,
[0:36]including many that center on the Pakistani American and Muslim characters for over two decades.
[0:41]She writes award-winning books in a multitude of formats, including picture books, middle-grade fiction,
[0:46]pick your path adventures and graphic novels. Her stories are often centered around her culture,
[0:50]community friendship, and family, and draw from her own experiences. Henna's best-selling novels
[0:56]include Amina's voice, and more to the story. She is also the author of the zade,
[1:01]zalim chasing the dream, zara's rules, and super-use series. Henna's acclaimed picture books
[1:08]include Golden Domes and Silver Lanterns under my hijab, and it's Ramadan, curious George.
[1:13]She holds an MA in international affairs from the George Washington University,
[1:18]has served on the board of We Need Divers Books, and is a member of the children's book
[1:21]Guild of DC. Henna lives in her hometown of Rockville, Maryland, and by the way, this is her second
[1:26]time on the podcast. Welcome, Henna. Thank you so much for coming back on mom's don't have time to
[1:31]read books, to discuss drawing Dina, and you have a new anthology out and everything. Oh my gosh,
[1:37]so much to talk about. Thank you. Thank you for having me. My pleasure. Okay, drawing Dina,
[1:44]and by the way, I'd love, I actually asked my daughter to fill in because it came with this card
[1:49]with a flower that you could draw on. She's such an artist. I was like, you have to do this before
[1:53]I get on the zoom, and of course she didn't. But anyway, I had the thought. I did tell her, however,
[1:59]not to keep talking, but she couldn't decide like something about a sweatshirt, and I was like,
[2:03]this is literally going on in the book that I am reading. The god figure out what color toothpaste
[2:08]at the dentist, and you are doing the same exact thing, you have to read this book. So,
[2:12]oh, thank you. Okay, what is drawing Dina about? Yeah, so about a young artist who is very indecisive
[2:21]as you mentioned, and she's very talented. She's trying to find her own style, but she's really
[2:28]impressed with when I go as many of us are and is imitating his style rather than finding her own,
[2:34]and it was really about her realizing that she has undiagnosed anxiety, which is part of what
[2:42]leads to her indecisiveness. She's experiencing these symptoms that she doesn't understand,
[2:47]like many kids, things like stomach aches in the morning, not wanting to eat breakfast,
[2:53]feeling like she's going to throw up if she does eat breakfast, and that's causing her anxiety.
[2:57]So, it's really about her coming to terms with this as she's trying to grow her mother's business,
[3:03]and dealing with small stresses in her life like one of the dentist and finding out she's
[3:07]is connected to. It's like hearing her parents argue about money. So, nothing catastrophic,
[3:13]because I think in kids lives, it's often not one giant thing that causes them anxiety,
[3:18]but lots of small things. So, really about, you know, girl finding her artistic voice and,
[3:24]you know, how to use art to channel her feelings and discover herself, but also, you know,
[3:29]growing these other ways. Amazing. I love how her mom runs a boutique downstairs, and one of the
[3:37]clients comes in, and she can see in her head what the woman is trying to say. And she's like,
[3:42]let me just draw it. Like, I can do this. I love that. I do have to say though that the mom was
[3:48]tough in this book. I mean, the mom does not make Dina feel good. I mean, there's one thing to have
[3:54]anxiety that just comes, right? Like that you're predisposed to anxiety, and you will have these
[3:59]reactions everywhere. But I feel like it's another thing also to have someone in your life who is
[4:05]really contributing to some mental health issues, right? Like, she had to deal with something
[4:10]really challenging there. Yeah. Yeah. And actually, you know, it's interesting because I,
[4:14]I toned it down a lot when I was compared to what I imagined before I wrote book. I wanted it
[4:20]to be a very contentious relationship between mother and daughter. And as I was writing, I couldn't do
[4:25]it. I think it was the loyal daughter and me who felt guilty. But I did, I did want her to be a source
[4:32]of stress for sure. And, and also a chance for, for Dina to sort of examine this, you know,
[4:38]often a fraught relationship. But, but also to see the potential for change even in her mom,
[4:42]and how sometimes we put people that were closest to in these boxes, especially as kids,
[4:47]you know, like your parents or your parents, and they are the way they are and they're never
[4:50]in change, right? Yeah, but that's true, of course. And so mom is, you know, Dina's love's art,
[4:56]but she feels, you know, underappreciated for her talent by her mom. She thinks I was very
[5:01]dismissive of it and wanted her to focus on school and doing well. And she's, she is very
[5:07]concerned about financial stability and money and makes that known. So I'm glad you picked up on it
[5:13]because I tried to be subtle where, you know, she was like, there she is complaining about dad again.
[5:16]And I, you know, she's not really saying it. But I know what she's thinking and what she means. And,
[5:21]so she, you know, she feels this added even something like getting a night card from the dentist.
[5:26]Yeah. She's talking about the expensive it and feeling guilty for something she has no control over.
[5:31]which, of course, is adding to her overall sense of, you know, doom. And, but also also inspires
[5:37]her to try to make a difference and do something to bring things around it. And although now I
[5:42]feel bad because I did make some comment when I was paying the bill for like worth a danche
[5:48]or whatever. I was like, oh my gosh, this is ridiculous. You know, I didn't go on and on and I was
[5:52]kind of joking. But I was like, what the heck, you know? That is understandable. It's crazy. But now
[5:58]I'm like, I shouldn't even have said that because I wonder if my kid would feel badly,
[6:02]you know, the way the Dina just so internalized that. And I think there are kids who are more
[6:07]sensitive and who sort of soak in all of that and maybe those kids do are more predisposed to anxiety.
[6:13]I don't know. Well, I think it was also like the compounding of things that have been saying,
[6:18]you know, over time. Yeah, no, it's not just that one thing. Right. Okay. Thank you for
[6:21]absolving me of that. I can imagine having the same. Great. I mean, worth the danche. Oh my gosh,
[6:27]crazy. I know my one daughter, her teeth are like really. And she's like, but do you think I was
[6:32]like, you don't need it? This is a huge blessing. You know, I know my son said it. I wanted to go.
[6:38]I want you to pops out slightly. I didn't really bother to. I'm like, you have a beautiful teeth. You
[6:42]don't want to go through all that. Yeah, really spans just the pain and the hassle.
[6:47]But I do think on a more serious note, when kids have to contend with adult issues that they
[6:53]shouldn't really have to necessarily, like they should be able to kind of just be kids and not
[6:58]have to take on the stress of being a grown up or feel like it's so stressful. I mean, I think
[7:03]Dina's mom also is like, it's hard. Like you're so lucky you're a kid and you know, you don't have
[7:08]to deal with all this and makes grown up life feel very depressing, like even reading it. Oh my
[7:14]gosh. I feel so bad. But why is she putting this all in her kit? Yeah. Yeah, that whole idea that
[7:21]and I think a lot of it was, you know, me trying to portray the way I think a lot of people
[7:25]I don't think about mental health and kids, you know, especially when they hear about anxiety and
[7:29]kids. It's like, what do they have to be anxious about? You know, what? You're 13 or, you know,
[7:33]you're, yeah, yeah, taking care of for you and you don't have any real worries. Like wait till you
[7:37]get to be an adult and you have to, you know, juggle this and this and this and even if they're not
[7:42]the ones paying the bills or the ones you're going to work, they are obviously feeling the
[7:46]mood of the house and family absorbing all the stresses and hearing everything. So it can be
[7:52]super stressful for kids even in a what seems like a very stable and, you know, safe environment.
[7:58]Of course, there's kids who face all sorts of, you know, very real challenges that can
[8:02]contribute to anxiety. But in Dina's case, I wanted it to be more that there wasn't this,
[8:06]like I said before, like in full room. Yeah, true. Well, for Dina, but I'm glad she found her thing,
[8:14]you know, I'm glad she found her thing and I love that entrepreneurial stuff behind it and,
[8:19]you know, it's really neat. It was really fun. Where did you come up with this whole idea?
[8:24]Oh, thank you. Well, I know I've actually visited a boutique much like the one I described in
[8:30]someone's home in Falls Church, Virginia. Oh, wow. And then I also know a young immigrant girl
[8:36]who is, who came here as a young child, but who is very artistic. So sort of a blending of those
[8:41]things. And then also really thinking a lot about the things that are on my mind, like dealing with
[8:46]anxiety, the crack tooth in the beginning of the book is my experience. And I did ask my dentist,
[8:51]like, could this happen to a kid? He's like, oh, yeah. So, so I was thinking about the things that are
[8:56]causing me anxiety and other people in my family, some of the ways people have responded to that.
[9:00]And that feels stigma that still exists around getting help for kids. And then also,
[9:06]on a bigger level, even like what it means for me to be an artist and put work out there and be
[9:12]subject to people's opinions on social media, for example. And I want to de-know to be able to
[9:19]step into that world in a small way and see both the power of it. You know, when it comes to
[9:24]marketing, like I have to do. So, you know, when you're putting your creative stuff out there,
[9:28]what it feels like to have strangers, you know, just sort of, I'll on some items,
[9:33]but then ends up, you can't even respond to it. So all of that really was sort of the seeds,
[9:38]you know, there's building this family in this world that really exploring the things I
[9:43]contemplating and wrestling as an adult, which is one of the joys of getting to do this is
[9:48]re-examining the world or really thinking about things that are on my mind through the eyes of
[9:52]a younger person. Yeah. And the younger person, though, has a little bit less control than we
[9:57]do, even though we might be feeling the same thing. It's like we-
[10:00]Ultimately, even if we feel trapped,
[10:02]we are in charge of our lives versus kids in a zage,
[10:06]where they have to go to school
[10:07]and they have to do these things
[10:09]and they don't really get a say,
[10:10]which is anxiety producing.
[10:12]I mean, I thought the guy could deal with being a kid right now.
[10:16]I know.
[10:18]What are your aside from professional stresses
[10:21]for promoting books or whatever, which I'm guessing,
[10:24]but what do you feel most stressed about?
[10:28]Aging parents and then laws and just caregiving responsibilities.
[10:33]And I feel like my kids definitely feel that
[10:35]when I'm freaking out about something
[10:38]or grab a just file again and what's going on type of things.
[10:42]So that's probably my biggest concern.
[10:44]And then, of course, being a mother to older kids now
[10:47]and some of the concerns around that
[10:49]once they started driving.
[10:54]And that's all within the whole type of stresses
[10:56]and, of course, just everything out there
[10:59]in the world to freak us out.
[11:01]How older are your kids?
[11:03]Now there are 23 and 19.
[11:06]So, oh my gosh, just out of college
[11:08]and just starting college.
[11:09]So very two very different phases.
[11:11]And yeah, it makes me think like, what?
[11:14]And I remember hearing parents talk about their kids,
[11:17]when I had small kids and saying,
[11:19]how quickly you went and thought and children every moment.
[11:21]And I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[11:23]I haven't slept in a week, yeah.
[11:25]And now I'm that person who's like,
[11:27]it goes more so fast because I just can't believe it.
[11:30]But don't you feel good that they are where they are too?
[11:33]I mean, I have some older kids and some younger kids.
[11:36]And yes, it goes so fast and I can't believe it,
[11:39]but I'm also so happy to know them now.
[11:42]You know?
[11:43]Oh, yeah.
[11:44]It's such a different feeling.
[11:45]We were really, I was traveling with my older son.
[11:48]And I remember I was at this jewelry store
[11:50]and he was sitting on a bench behind me.
[11:52]And it was just so funny.
[11:53]We were referring to him as my bodyguard.
[11:55]But it really felt like that.
[11:57]Yeah, I had a ton of time coming in child following me around.
[12:01]And it felt so nice and like in a way,
[12:04]like they take care of us,
[12:05]sort of like I'm doing a mom now.
[12:07]It's sweet to see that.
[12:08]And the relationship, yeah, definitely.
[12:10]It's like evolved into this really
[12:12]almost a friendship more than more than when they were little.
[12:16]Yeah.
[12:16]I don't think there's enough said about it.
[12:18]I think there's so much airtime given to
[12:21]treasureing the young.
[12:23]Sure, right?
[12:24]Which I guess, but like it's not always fun in the young.
[12:27]I think a bigger percentage of my time with my kids now
[12:31]is really fun than it was when they were babies.
[12:33]And it was a lot of work.
[12:35]I mean, I still love them just as much.
[12:37]I don't know.
[12:37]I love that, I love that.
[12:39]Yeah, and it's true.
[12:40]And some of the things we wrestled with, like the angst
[12:43]and the guilt and, yes, by doing things right.
[12:45]I mean, now I just need them sit back and be like,
[12:47]okay, I think I can do this.
[12:50]Yeah, to see you, man.
[12:52]They pretty much turned out, okay, few.
[12:53]Okay, on to the next, I don't know.
[12:55]I'm kidding.
[12:56]Of course, it never ends, but just switch gears entirely.
[12:59]Tell me about the anthology that also just came out.
[13:03]Yeah, thank you.
[13:04]So it's called The Doors Open.
[13:06]And it is featuring 11, including me,
[13:10]South Asian Voices, South Asian-American writers
[13:14]who I very much admire and whose work I've been following.
[13:17]And the stories that we all wrote short stories
[13:20]that are interconnected.
[13:21]So you read one story and you meet characters
[13:24]from other stories as you continue.
[13:27]And all the stories build to a larger,
[13:31]like story connecting them all about this community center.
[13:34]So all the stories are set in a fictional community center
[13:37]and a town of Maple Grove, New Jersey.
[13:40]And then there's a backstory to the community center itself.
[13:44]So it was really fun to put this together,
[13:47]to work with all these amazing writers
[13:49]and have everyone write a very different story,
[13:52]but then leave them together and play off of each other
[13:56]and then build to a larger story.
[13:58]Because that way, I felt like it feels more like a novel,
[14:02]written in parts rather than just,
[14:04]disjointed short stories.
[14:07]So yeah, and it was for me really a goal
[14:10]to bring together a really diverse,
[14:12]what we call Desi, which is South Asian voices
[14:15]and showcase some of the very,
[14:18]the very different traditions and customs that we have,
[14:21]but then also this shared heritage
[14:23]and a lot of overlap culturally that we all enjoy.
[14:27]And it can actually that we all have just from having
[14:30]all of that shared heritage and history
[14:33]and the comfort that comes with that.
[14:34]And the instant community that is created
[14:37]from having, which I think people don't always realize.
[14:40]No, that's amazing.
[14:41]What a clever idea.
[14:43]Thank you.
[14:43]Thank you.
[14:44]Did you assign who would do what?
[14:46]Like did the order matter when you were assigning
[14:49]who would take which character
[14:51]or how did you, what was the assignment?
[14:53]Yeah, so really it was to come up with a story
[14:56]that you wanted to set in this fictional community center.
[14:58]And initially I thought it would be some sort
[15:00]of a rentable hall, like a wedding hall or that would be used.
[15:03]And then we decided collectively to make it a community
[15:06]center instead because you could rent that
[15:09]for prayer service or a graduation party
[15:12]or even there might be other community events happening
[15:14]like a chess match or chess tournament.
[15:17]So that's what we decided once we did everyone
[15:20]decide on the type of event that they might have connected to.
[15:24]So we wouldn't overlap.
[15:25]And then we shared the names of our characters
[15:28]and maybe a few personality traits.
[15:31]So we get a sense of who they were
[15:32]if our characters were going to be male or female
[15:34]or whatever it was.
[15:35]And then we also, if we all wrote our story,
[15:37]actually I didn't write mine.
[15:38]And I waited until everyone was done.
[15:40]And we worked back and forth until we felt like each individual
[15:43]story was ready.
[15:45]And then I decided how to order them.
[15:47]And some of them by virtue of the conversations
[15:50]we've been having about the bigger story
[15:51]did touch on the bigger story.
[15:53]So I already knew where those would go.
[15:56]Others we just added a little bit to make leave it through.
[16:00]And then I wrote my story where I thought
[16:02]it would fit best and could sort of highlight things
[16:06]I wanted to highlight.
[16:07]So it was fitting together retrofitting it
[16:10]and to live for her.
[16:11]But really, really fun.
[16:13]And it came together really nicely, I think.
[16:15]And it's more smooth than I would have thought.
[16:18]I would have thought I would have had to go back
[16:19]and ask people to rewrite paragraphs.
[16:22]And that wasn't needed because I think everyone sort of had
[16:25]it in the back of her mind anyway.
[16:26]And sort of planted little seeds.
[16:29]And so it was just a wonderful experience.
[16:32]And everyone's like, oh my gosh, anthology is
[16:33]going to be really difficult to edit.
[16:34]What did you think?
[16:35]And I just adored everything about the process.
[16:38]And I feel like we formed this little family among us
[16:42]after having done this.
[16:43]I love that.
[16:44]I feel like it's less like in anthology,
[16:47]it's more like you co-wrote a book.
[16:49]Yeah, in the end.
[16:50]I mean, I know there are novels written by multiple authors
[16:54]that are more interlinked.
[16:57]And in this case, it's just a thread that runs through
[17:01]and the characters are.
[17:02]But yeah, it does have that feeling.
[17:04]So if you read it, it'll be hopefully,
[17:07]as satisfying as reading an novel, because you'll
[17:09]get that larger story arc as well.
[17:11]And then you'll get to know each of these characters
[17:13]on a deeper level too.
[17:15]That's so neat.
[17:16]And yet you all get to go out there and market it.
[17:19]It's great.
[17:19]You don't have a great idea.
[17:20]It's so fun to talk about it.
[17:21]Yeah, and I mean, honestly, I was so honored
[17:24]that they trusted me to do it, that they wanted to be on board.
[17:28]Everyone had so much enthusiasm for it
[17:30]and support for it, that it's just been lovely.
[17:34]Yeah, really, every part of it.
[17:36]Amazing.
[17:36]Oh my gosh, I love it.
[17:38]So awesome.
[17:39]And what do you have coming up?
[17:40]Not like this isn't enough, grinding your teeth at night
[17:44]already, you don't need to go to your plate here.
[17:48]It's been a big publishing year for me.
[17:50]So five books this year, which I knew sounded big in my head.
[17:55]But once it started happening, it's like, whoa,
[17:58]this is almost too fast, because I don't have the space
[18:02]I would love to really focus on each one before another one
[18:05]is coming out.
[18:06]So they're all very different.
[18:07]So I feel like they're appealing to different age groups
[18:10]and different markets.
[18:11]But in some cases, of course,
[18:13]Kit looked as a whole.
[18:14]But I had a picture book come out yesterday.
[18:16]Oh my gosh.
[18:17]Which is about the oldest library in the world,
[18:20]which is actually in Fazmuroko.
[18:22]And I haven't even posted about it yet.
[18:24]Speaking of social media, I'm like, I guess yesterday
[18:26]at a really busy day.
[18:27]I share a few things.
[18:28]So I was like, I need to celebrate this book.
[18:30]I love this book so much.
[18:31]I've been waiting for it for years.
[18:32]I've been like, I should have this book for more than a decade.
[18:35]So tell me about that book.
[18:38]Now I'm like, so behind.
[18:39]I thought we were drawing Dina.
[18:41]Anyway.
[18:42]So it's written, it's a picture book
[18:45]told from the perspective of the library itself.
[18:47]And it was founded in the year 859 by a woman
[18:51]named Fazmuroko.
[18:53]What is now Fazmuroko?
[18:55]And she founded what went on to become
[18:58]the oldest university in the world.
[19:00]But and that's a story I had wanted to tell for many, many years.
[19:04]But I knew that in a picture book format,
[19:06]I was like, well, you know, and I was told by editors
[19:08]that the university is so far away from the little kids
[19:11]experience.
[19:12]So I wasn't sure how to do that.
[19:14]And then I learned of the library.
[19:16]That was attached to this university,
[19:18]which was the oldest continually operating library
[19:21]in the world was undergoing this major restoration
[19:24]because it had fallen under disrepair.
[19:27]And it was just beautiful.
[19:29]And there was this news article about this copper door
[19:32]with four locks on it.
[19:34]And every lock had a different key.
[19:35]And every key was given to a different person.
[19:38]Oh, my gosh.
[19:39]It all had to be there to open this secret room
[19:41]in or vault, I guess, in the library
[19:45]and it held the most treasured books of the time.
[19:48]And I was just like, that is the whole magical.
[19:51]And I'm a library lover.
[19:52]And you know, grew up in the library.
[19:54]And I must tell this story now.
[19:56]And now I understand how to make it relevant.
[19:58]So the story.
[20:00]You know, the, also the idea that this was founded by a Muslim woman, you know, somebody we don't now in modern time in the West, always consider, you know, or associate with higher learning and, and this wealth of knowledge and, and discovery and, you know, scholarship that took place in the world for centuries at this place.
[20:20]And then the restoration was done by another Moroccan woman who is an architect and she led the team to, to, you know, refurbish it and, and save this, you know, slowly dying entity, which is now, you know, UNESCO site and just stunning space. So, you know, really fun story to tell them when I thought the world needed to know. Oh my gosh. Well now I have to go pick that up.
[20:44]You're just too fast, right? This is crazy. Okay, so you have the children's book and drawing Dina and doors wide open the doors doors wide open right doors open. Yeah, lots of doors in these titles. And then what else? What are the other two coming. So in the summer, I have my debut graphic novel coming out called We Are Big Time. Oh, I'm so excited about it. It was, yeah, really different for me to write and work on, but I've been waiting.
[21:14]It's beautiful. I love how it turned out. The artist is incredible. And it's about an all Muslim girls basketball team based on the true story of a team in Milwaukee, Wisconsin that I actually had the pleasure of interviewing a few of the players from that actual team and the coach because they had this amazing turnaround season and got a lot of media attention since their uniform includes wearing the hijab.
[21:37]And a lot of it was around, you know, being this hijab wearing girls basketball team out, you know, in the high school basketball circuit and and the attention that fraught.
[21:47]And so I got to talk with the girls about, you know, their specific experiences and sort of dug a little deeper than what I was reading about because they got national media attention and they had, you know, a bleacher report done on them and.
[21:58]And I think that was a lot for them to take, you know, on top of wanting to display basketball and be great.
[22:05]And having a winning season, all of a sudden it's like, you represent Muslim women.
[22:10]You represent your faith.
[22:12]So I wanted to touch on that, but also just, you know, a story like one of the girls was telling me about how she had moved recently and how the team, you know, helped her.
[22:20]And the girl was talking about how hard she was on herself as a player and how she focused so much on her mistakes and beat herself up about them.
[22:29]Whereas her coach had to take her side and show her her stats and say, look at all the things you contribute.
[22:33]Look at all these rebounds you've had.
[22:35]And so, you know, pieces like that I will have together into fictional character named Aliyah and, you know, based on the true events of this amazing team.
[22:43]Wow.
[22:44]Okay, so that's four.
[22:45]Yes.
[22:46]And then the final book is called Like a Boss.
[22:49]It's book four of the best wishes series with Sarah Monoski.
[22:54]Oh, I love Sarah.
[22:55]Yeah.
[22:56]Yeah.
[22:57]Amazing.
[22:58]Such a great writer.
[22:59]And I was so happy that she asked me to join her for her series.
[23:02]Oh.
[23:03]And so fun.
[23:04]It's about a magic bracelet that travels from character to character.
[23:09]And in our book, Maya Amir, who is a Pakistani American girl living in Washington DC area gets the bracelet when she's having a particularly bad day, like all the girls, and it allows you to make more noise.
[23:23]And my wish is to be in charge and suddenly in charge of way more than she expects and charge of everything.
[23:32]And, you know, it's wrestling with all that. So really, really fun to go after that. And we just laughed our way through the manuscript.
[23:39]And every now, every time I read it, I still laugh.
[23:43]I read so many times like copy edits and I'll lay out and I'm like, this is so funny. So hopefully readers will look at a big kick out of it.
[23:50]Oh, yeah.
[23:51]Oh, I can't wait to read that. Sarah's a really good friend of mine and she's the one who suggested I start this podcast by the way.
[23:55]No way.
[23:56]Yeah.
[23:57]She's brilliant.
[23:58]Yeah.
[23:59]Amazing.
[24:00]Yeah.
[24:01]Wow. Well, congratulations on all of the things you have coming up. You're so prolific. And, you know, I'm sure you would with that whole boutique in the basement and to shape yourself.
[24:12]You know, the whole different words true. So congrats.
[24:16]Oh, thank you.
[24:17]Yeah. I can't wait. I mean, just so exciting. All the stuff really nice. Thank you.
[24:21]Well, you know, I'm publishing. It's like some of it. Like, wasn't meant to be all this.
[24:24]Right.
[24:25]Yeah.
[24:26]And I was like, wow. So it's been very fun, but also like, I hope.
[24:32]Yeah.
[24:33]And I hope that you're sharing grandparents and the family are okay and then, you know, no more falls.
[24:41]Thanks.
[24:42]It's an interesting time.
[24:46]I grew up, you know, to immigrant parents. So I didn't see my own grandparents age.
[24:52]Um, they all lived in Pakistan.
[24:55]And even some had passed when I was very little or before I was born. So, you say this whole experience is very new to me. And I realized like part of it might be that I'm less prepared than other people who have released a bit missed it.
[25:10]Part of life.
[25:12]Yeah.
[25:13]Doesn't make it easier though.
[25:15]Anyway.
[25:16]All right.
[25:17]Thank you again.
[25:18]Not with you.
[25:19]Oh my gosh.
[25:20]No, of course.
[25:21]I was a pleasure.
[25:22]And you're the best.
[25:23]So I love this.
[25:24]And thank you for having me.
[25:25]I pleasure.
[25:26]Okay.
[25:27]Take care.
[25:28]Okay.
[25:29]Bye.
[25:30]Thanks for listening.
[25:31]Two moms don't have time to read books.
[25:32]If you love it, please leave a review and follow us on social at City Owens and at City Readers.