Leader in reproductive health!! Dr. Karen Tang, IT'S NOT HYSTERIA: Everything You Need to Know about Your Reproductive Health (But Were Never Told)

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[0:42]Karen Tang is the author of It's Not Hesteria. Everything you need to know about your reproductive health, but we're never told.

[0:49]Karen Tang, MD, MPH, is a board-certified gynecologist and a minimally invasive gynecological surgeon who is an internationally recognized leader in reproductive health.

[0:59]She received her medical degree and masters in public health at Columbia University and trained in obstetrics and gynecology at Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center slash Harvard Medical School.

[1:10]As at Karen Tang, MD on TikTok, Instagram and YouTube, she reaches millions of viewers each month with her educational videos about period health, pelvic pain, and reproductive rights.

[1:20]Dr. Tang has been featured in the Washington Post, Self Magazine, Glamour, and BC.com and NPR, among others. She lives in the Philadelphia area with her husband and three children.

[1:29]Welcome, Dr. Tang. Thank you so much for coming on mom's don't have time to read books to discuss.

[1:34]It's not hysteria. Everything you need to know about your reproductive health, but we're never told. Thank you so much.

[1:41]I'm so excited to be here. Thank you for having me.

[1:43]Oh, it's my pleasure. Thank you for this complete resource guide, easy to use, like fabulous thing that I wish I had had my entire life now that I'm gone.

[1:55]I feel like I only have a few sections left.

[1:58]I don't know.

[1:59]I don't know. Oh, my God.

[2:02]I tell people it's, you know, it's for whatever phase of life you're in.

[2:06]And, you know, people kind of come up back to different sections of different parts of their life.

[2:10]You know, there's like birth control section fertility section, postmenopause, you know, it's all about meeting people where they're at.

[2:16]And people will kind of circle back around to things that they probably weren't expecting later. So, you know, it's great because it's like it's like

[2:24]younger people might not even remember what an encyclopedia is, but it's like it's something that sits on your shelf and you always need to have nearby because you just don't know.

[2:33]And it's better than googling because it's an actual credible person with size and yeah, so it's like there used to be a thing called encyclopedias where you look up information if you had a question, but yeah, no, that's that's exactly it.

[2:49]You know, something where no matter what, you know, whatever random question you might have, like I wonder about, you know, like these infections or I wonder about PCOS like you can go in there and like, you know, search for that topic and find it.

[3:02]So that was definitely the idea.

[3:04]Well, well done.

[3:06]So the more condensed and the encyclopedias which took up like a whole shelf, but no, no, no, and it's not boring either which not not to knock the encyclopedia writers everywhere, but you know, this is, you know, you put your own spin to even the most clinical stuff, which is one of the gifts that you have which is great.

[3:25]First of all, go through your career and how you became this expert on women's reproductive health and all that and how writing the book can dove tolled with your meteoric TikTok fame, which oh my gosh.

[3:38]I have to laugh about that.

[3:40]You know, I always say if you had told me when I was in medical school or residency that, you know, one day you'll be on this thing called TikTok where you will make videos about like weird vaginal myths and you know about like this crazy thing that people were talking about that they were getting wrong.

[3:58]I would have been like this is crazy. I didn't even have Twitter. I didn't have Instagram. Nothing. I was very much like offline kind of person.

[4:05]But I've always loved teachers. So, you know, I went into OBGYN and women's health knowing that, you know, I love reproductive health. I loved helping women and educating people and, you know, later in my training. I discovered I really like surgery.

[4:18]I ended up being like a minimally invasive GY and surgeon. I do a lot of operating on things like enemy triosis and fibroids.

[4:24]And just in the process of doing that, just saw how often people were having their concerns dismissed. I was oftentimes like the third for fifth doctor that someone was seeing for these same issues, which you know, I'm not like some ground breaking scholar like offering something that no one else can offer.

[4:40]You know, listening, you know, acknowledging people's concerns like, you know, helping them and giving them options, which, you know, it shouldn't be that difficult to do, but just obviously women all over the world struggle with this like they have horrible pain or bad bleeding fertility problems hormone problems and they're just like, what do I do?

[4:58]You know, and sometimes even if they see their gynecologist, they aren't getting the answers that they need or they're not kind of being taken seriously. People get told a lot. Well, you know, that's just periods. That's just menopause.

[5:08]And that's the end of the road. And, you know, that kind of seeing all of that coincided with me starting up on social media. Like I honestly just started just to get word out that I was a doctor and you know,

[5:20]if you need a doctor, but it took off. It really resonated with people who were looking for this information and not having other resources to turn to. And then the process of, you know, I'm like, I'm like, so famous. I'm not that famous, but, you know, by getting some degree of a platform on social media led to getting, you know, this opportunity to write a book.

[5:40]And I've always been much more of a writer and a reader than make videos on TikTok person. And so this is just much more of my alley.

[5:47]You know, up more I might whatever the expression is more up by alley to want to have something for the people who aren't online or, you know, like if you're online and you're on TikTok, you see one video about PCOS.

[5:59]Well, actually, I wonder about enemy truths is now to have something all in one place to give them information.

[6:05]And just like you said, it's actually it's not totally like encyclopedia because it's not just like here are some dry facts.

[6:11]It's about meeting people where they are and helping them navigate a system that is really not set up to, you know, make life easy.

[6:19]Getting people to care they need.

[6:21]So, you know, to be a little bit more on that human level of, you know, it's not just you feel these things you do this treatment, but, you know, what are you experiencing?

[6:30]what struggles might you face? You know, how do you deal with this? How do you talk with your doctor and all of that? Well, I mean, I think another lot.

[6:37]No, no, no, it's great. I mean, I think another great uses.

[6:41]Yes, of course, sometimes doctors don't take you seriously or you need multiple opinions, but I also think that even now I think women are embarrassed to talk about a lot of the stuff.

[6:50]Right. And having to be face to face like in the little paper robe on a paper, like bright light.

[6:58]I mean, it's not exactly like the most conducive setting to like talking about what you're on control at the special end. There's like ticking clock like in even two minutes.

[7:07]So anyway, your book and your platform can anticipate questions and answer common questions.

[7:14]It's so interesting to me this sort of disaggregation information in a way that like someone like you classically educated who's like a full on doctor can now like essentially have your own TV channel and just get information out for free for customers.

[7:31]Yeah, she's amazing. Right. Yeah.

[7:34]So I came after, you know, Jen Gunter, Dr. Jen Gunter, Dr. Jennifer Lincoln.

[7:40]These people who kind of were like, you know, they're pioneers in this use of social media as an educational platform.

[7:46]And you know, again, like we're not like, like let me tell you about like this groundbreaking study no one else has heard of.

[7:52]This is just like, what is a tampon? Like, you know, what happens during a pap smear? How can you ask for the things that you need?

[7:58]And just like you said, because you might have 10 minutes with your doctor and you're in a gown, you feel really vulnerable. You may not feel comfortable like, well, actually I'm having a lot of problems with sex or I'm having like, you know, like this problem with my bladder urgency.

[8:11]You know, people have all these barriers to getting all of that. Whereas, you know, at home, they can be scrolling Facebook or Instagram, whatever YouTube.

[8:19]Like, oh my God, I can look up all of the things I've had questions about, which is like, you know, plus and minus it's good.

[8:25]If you find a reliable source, it's horrible if, you know, anybody right now with a microphone could be like, I just made up some bullshit.

[8:32]You know, and everyone has a hard time kind of sifting through what's real, what's just hype, what's somebody selling you like some shady supplements.

[8:42]It's really hard to kind of tease apart and to find a reliable source. And so, you know, that's why it's important to have people who have, you know, okay, here's my background here, my credentials, you know, here's why, you know, like, you should, if not like take everything I say, as if it's possible, but just to be able to feel like I can trust it as much as, you know, you can trust any sort of a scientist.

[9:02]Yeah, I went to my appointment last time, like armed with like, TikTok facts. You know, I'm like, okay, well, this is what Mary Claire Haver said that I'm just going to be like, what do you think and why not just like, wait, wait, wait, wait.

[9:15]But they don't know you, you know, I do as your doctor. So, yes, and that's what that's what we want people to do is that, you know, you take some of the bits of information because obviously, and we say this all the time on social media, it's like, no social media doctor can tell you what's happening with you.

[9:30]Or what's best for you. It's just about like, here's some educational facts. And then you take that and then you can hit the ground running when you talk with your doctor in the office. And that's kind of, you know, what I say in the book is like, this is just a jumping off point.

[9:41]It's to, you know, like to understand your own experience to learn some information about some of these things that could be, you know, applicable to you so that you can then have that conversation that's more personalized to your specific health and history and needs and, you know, that sort of thing.

[9:57]So, I did notice on TikTok and.

[10:00]Usually I talk more about the book, but I'm I'm no, it's

[10:03]Fascinated by it goes with those terrible. You know like by both means of just you know

[10:07]I had a history to me a long time ago not that long, but I had a history to me while you and

[10:12]On your feet is like this is like the inside of the video of like yeah, actual

[10:17]history of me and and so people must be like why did you pin that or people totally?

[10:22]Oh

[10:23]It was it went crazy viral that video on TikTok a long 15 million views

[10:28]I think I had like like 200,000 shares and people like went crazy over it

[10:32]And I think it is because like most people were just like what these are the organs like no

[10:37]It's ever seen what a uterus even looks like let alone like oh

[10:41]Here's like a surgery, but I think most of the people being really shocked

[10:44]We're like I've never even seen you know because I point out not just the surgery part

[10:48]But just like here's the uterus here the ovaries like here's the rectum the bladder and you know

[10:53]Just to see what your actual body looks like on the inside people like lost their minds

[10:57]Because I've never seen this 40 years old

[11:00]I've never I never actually knew what my body looked like on the inside

[11:03]And this is where a lot of the videos that go viral on social media are like people really surprised like you know

[11:09]Like oh my god

[11:09]Like I've gotten to this point in my life

[11:11]These are inside my body and I had no clue

[11:14]You know people picture like little cartoon that looks like a little tea

[11:16]It like doesn't look like that in real life

[11:18]And I think that kind of blew people's minds a little bit

[11:21]And then it was very fun to see also like men's reactions to that video because people would like do at the video and show their

[11:28]Oh my gosh, what is this this there was fun

[11:31]I do say that for the book for the social media

[11:33]I you know, I don't want it to be a woman's only club

[11:36]Because it's so important. I think for men to understand this too like to know what all of this is like to to understand

[11:43]What half of the human population?

[11:45]You know what how their bodies work and the importance of the health and stuff like that

[11:49]So I actually appreciate a lot of my my quote-unquote my fans are men gay men and like they're there are some of the most supportive ones

[11:55]Around like this. Well, here's many of my distracts. I mean, check it out

[12:00]Oh my gosh never know

[12:02]So when I opened the book, I was like, okay, I'm sure there's going to be

[12:06]some personal, you know health battle or something that

[12:11]Dr. Tang went through herself that propelled her to study or that you know

[12:15]What is that thing so I didn't find that so do you do you have a thing that made you want to be a doctor that from a personal standpoint?

[12:22]Was it more of an intellectual interest like where did this come from and how does your own health play into your?

[12:28]Career yes a great question. I don't have everybody anybody's ever asked me that but so I've been really fortunate like

[12:32]I'm one of those people who you know has

[12:35]Very rare that someone kind of skates through life and hasn't had a major gynecologic problem

[12:40]You know, but like all of us have had some of the questions in here

[12:43]So you know the you know like birth control or like you know

[12:48]I'm trying to get pregnant. It's taking a little while like what's going on. Is there something wrong with me?

[12:52]You know, I have three kids

[12:54]I had two miscarriages like one in between each kid

[12:56]So I've been through you know miscarriage and and you didn't take very long to get pregnant

[13:00]But every month when you're trying to get pregnant feels like an eternity and early on I I knew I was

[13:06]I had a passion for women's health and reproductive health and you know now actually I see a lot of patients who are transgender

[13:12]Transgender men so anybody who needs gynecologic care, but it

[13:16]It became really clear early on when I was like oh all of my projects all of my you know like like classes

[13:22]Like if we had the electives that we could choose it was all about like reproductive health women's health and and some of it had to do with

[13:30]When and anybody who's like, what did you know early on? I was like I knew nothing like I

[13:35]My parents are Taiwanese immigrants

[13:38]Asian parents for those of you out there who have immigrant parents most of you know

[13:43]Like you're not going to get any information about sex about periods about pregnancy nothing

[13:48]It's just basically just don't get pregnant before you're married and you know like blah blah blah

[13:53]So that's there's literally no information

[13:56]so I truly as like a kid like in middle school would just like go to the bookstore and like browse and like oh

[14:03]I would find like some

[14:05]Whatever kind of our bodies ourselves or something like that and be like I would like to learn

[14:09]About how periods where I would love to learn about how pregnancy happens

[14:13]So truly just had to like teach myself and whatever tiny bit of information

[14:17]We got from health class

[14:18]So I was in the shoes of a lot of people out there who didn't get a lot of this information from family

[14:24]Who didn't really get an amazing amount of information from school

[14:28]And somehow I was supposed to be like a functioning adult who understands their body and the bodily functions that you have to deal with

[14:35]So I think my own natural curiosity all that that stuff

[14:38]Translated to me then wanting to help people have an easier time getting that information

[14:43]So again, I've always loved teaching

[14:45]I've always loved explaining stuff that seems kind of complicated and breaking it down in a way that is easy to understand

[14:51]So I've loved that you know right from the second I started residency

[14:55]I found like teaching was one of my passions

[14:57]And so you know that has carried on through basically all of the things that I do with the social media with the book

[15:03]It's all about teaching it's about like empowering people with knowledge in a way that is simple to grasp and you know that they can then

[15:10]Make use of so

[15:12]I had never really thought of social media as a teaching tool. Oh, I didn't either

[15:16]Yeah, I was just like oh, it's like that's a place that like the kids dance or like people post pictures of food

[15:21]You know that I was very skeptical and I will say a friend of mine actually

[15:25]So that back in like 2018 was when I started on Instagram because a friend of mine who does a lot of media just a shepherd

[15:32]She's great. She was like this is how patients get health information here and wake up

[15:38]And I had no idea because again, I wasn't really on social media

[15:41]But it was where they were searching for information and she was like doctors are behind the times

[15:45]Like we are missing out and this became really clear in the COVID

[15:48]Obviously with the pandemic that the medical establishment was like what the people don't automatically believe everything

[15:55]We say if you know, they believe some random people on Facebook and you know, they're they distrust

[16:01]What the CDC and the FDA and all this stuff are telling them and they believe some random guy who's telling you to take ivermectin

[16:07]So I think a lot of us

[16:09]Were we're caught unawares especially if we were you know like elder millennial gen X whatever and I didn't kind of grow up with social media

[16:17]To realize how important it had become and just the different uses of it like you know creating communities like that's actually another important one for health like so many

[16:25]Women's health groups

[16:27]enemy triostas support groups fertility support groups and abandoned together and social media and found each other because they were all sort of

[16:33]So you know like it was such a struggle to to get help that people kind of found each other and social media and helped each other

[16:40]So that was again

[16:41]I had no idea about all this stuff before a couple of years ago that there was such huge groups online of people searching for answers and and you know

[16:48]We're like well, you know the medical establishments kind of fail us like what do we do and they help each other so

[16:53]So there's a lot of noise out there about how to eat healthy and live healthy and live clean and blah, blah, blah, blah from the women's health reproductive area thing

[17:05]This is how I you know, I'm like on a

[17:09]Women's board like for women's health at Mount Sinai and this is the best I can come up with as I know anyway

[17:15]What's your all busy moms? We understand like there's

[17:19]I forgot that basic words. I'm like what what's that word? I'll like kind of like wiggle my fingers like you know

[17:24]You know that thing and that's sorry. No, I trust trust me. I understand

[17:28]But my reproductive health perspective. Thank you. There you go

[17:31]I'm a reproductive health perspective

[17:33]What should we do in terms of prevention? Like is there anything we can be doing in our very busy lives to

[17:42]Protect against things that may or may not happen later. Like is there something we're not thinking about?

[17:46]Should everybody be taking supplements like you know

[17:49]How important is it to like go on a walk two days a week for you know for this area?

[17:53]Your area of expertise like what is the most what are the most important things women can be doing? Oh, man

[17:58]That's so hard

[18:00]Gotta just pick a couple here, but yeah, there's a couple of different things. There's obviously yeah, there's so there's so much prevent them

[18:07]so much emphasis now on

[18:09]You know like certain aspects of exercise and nutrition so you know like we hadn't really understood the importance of say like protein and fiber and

[18:17]Exercise both you know just like swim sort of like

[18:20]high-intensity exercise where you are getting your heart health and then also strength training like I think a lot of us

[18:27]You know growing up quote unquote. We're all about like oh you got to just do like a bunch of cardio and just watch your calories

[18:32]And that was like sort of it like nobody really kind of went too much deeper even in medical training and now kind of

[18:38]Understanding the importance of you know like strength training building muscle especially for perimenopause menopause

[18:44]That's been such a big thing recently people saying well, how can I keep my body healthy?

[18:49]Going into menopause and just realizing you need to like you know like prevent you know both muscle and bone loss and

[18:55]Exercise weights, you know that sort of thing and yeah

[18:59]Just like you know having that balance diet is not just about like starving yourself

[19:02]But you know watching nutrition making sure your body has what it needs

[19:05]I think most people will say that you know

[19:07]You don't have to take a fancy supplements if you can get nutrition through your food that is best

[19:12]So you know not only just like vitamins protein fiber

[19:15]But also things like you know like calcium vitamin D protecting your bones

[19:19]There's a lot of stuff on like you know like vitamin D deficiency and how important that is

[19:23]I'm like I'm like oh wait. I think I was supposed to be taking this

[19:26]I know right I'm like oh shoot not gonna add magnesium to this

[19:31]So and I tell people like you know don't make it's become like its own

[19:35]like source of stress like people now are like oh god

[19:38]I forgot to you know do this supplement or this vitamin

[19:41]You know have I ruined my fertility, you know, whatever it's rarely that

[19:45]It's all about just trying to kind of like find what is helpful in a way that's sustainable

[19:49]So the same thing with exercise like you know of people are like oh, I'm gonna go and like join like this trendy gym

[19:54]But then like you're a busy mom like you don't have time and you're like oh, I've just paid a million dollars like

[20:00]heard this membership that I never used because it's like inconvenient for my life.

[20:03]And so I was when I tell people in the office, you have to find something that fits your life

[20:07]and you have to find something that you will be able to sustain in a way that is, you know,

[20:12]not just like healthy, but also like that you enjoy that it brings some value to your life.

[20:16]So you find the exercise that you're like going to look forward to and want to keep in your

[20:20]schedule. You know, you're going to make you want to either stay a little bit later, wake up a

[20:24]a little bit earlier, fit it in schedule it in. And that's kind of what I usually recommend as a

[20:29]doctor is, you know, you find the things. We give you all these recommendations, but you find how to make

[20:33]it work with your life. And then obviously like preventative health is so important, you know,

[20:37]the mentioned pandemic, it feels like it was a long time ago, but you know, it was, there's a couple

[20:42]of years like people didn't get their mammograms or their paps because they're like, oh, you know,

[20:46]we're all like, we're all quarantining. And then like busy and then maybe a few more years past,

[20:52]I've had a lot of people who've been like, it's been like six years since I had like a mammogram

[20:55]or a GY in exam. It's never too late. So very important preventative care, you know, getting your

[21:01]cancer screenings, you know, getting your routine checkups, your cholesterol checks, like all of

[21:05]that is so important. Don't put down the back burner. Like people kind of think like, oh, you know,

[21:10]if I'm not like like you're falling apart, I can wait a little bit longer. It's always important to,

[21:16]you know, try and keep your body's healthy as it can with preventative health rather than waiting

[21:20]until it's really, there's, there's issues. So excellent advice. Yeah. But there's something that

[21:25]didn't fit into the book or you thought was just a little too tangential or whatever, but you wish

[21:30]you could have found a place for it. What was that? Oh, that's a good one. You know, it's so the book

[21:36]and I kind of started in the beginning. I'm like, there's obviously got to be limits because

[21:39]otherwise the book would be like a million pages long. Like you got to kind of cut it off somewhere.

[21:44]And I don't take care of pregnant patients. So I don't do obstetrics. I don't like,

[21:49]do prenatal care deliveries. And so a lot of people would ask, you know, like, what about this

[21:52]about like pregnancy or childbirth? And unfortunately, I'm like, you know, I just know that I'm not

[21:56]the person to write that book. But I have, you know, some friends, Jen Lincoln, like I said, they

[22:00]they have books coming down the pipeline about pregnancy care and that sort of thing. I will say

[22:05]kind of tossing around ideas for future books. I have a chapter in the book on history because

[22:10]I feel like it's really important to understand where this all came from. Like, how did it get to

[22:14]be that women's health was so bad? Like it didn't come out of nowhere. It came out of some sort of

[22:20]like a cultural historical context. So I did want to kind of like just, you know, touch on that and

[22:24]draw some parallels between, you know, like ancient Greeks and like Freud and, and you know, what

[22:30]what happened to like various groups of women over time and where we are today. Obviously, that chapter

[22:35]had to be pretty brief, but there's so many good books on history, you know, like the

[22:39]that like several that come out in the last couple of years that have touched on that.

[22:43]So I was saying I was like, you know, if I had to come up with like a fun future book, I said

[22:47]it was going to be like sex. It was going to be like history of sex. It was going to be like,

[22:51]you know, a chapter on each topic, like, you know, how did people prevent like, you know,

[22:55]what was birth control and ancient Egyptian times and ancient Greek times, you know, what about

[23:00]like, you know, like a like polygamy, like not polygamy. But like, you know, like people who are

[23:05]not monogamous, what about sex work? Yeah, what about, you know, like queer history. So just like

[23:10]all these kind of just interesting things. I think I think it's super fascinating. And then just,

[23:15]you know, tying that to kind of how things are today. So just like really kind of diving into

[23:19]like the very interesting history and fascinating stories about, you know, life in the past and

[23:24]and stuff like that. So I was like, I thought that'd be kind of fun. And obviously this book we

[23:28]can you couldn't go into all of that. Next book we'll find out. And did you just quickly write

[23:33]this or what was that? Did you took a year? I was just like, I was just actually, I was very

[23:39]bluzzy about it. I will tell you, you know, for for those of you who don't know the world of

[23:43]nonfiction as well. We don't sell the book fully formed like novels are sold. So we sell them on

[23:50]proposals, which we, you know, basically like, you know, like here's like my idea, here's like,

[23:54]you know, my outline and my thoughts. And I was like, oh, you know, I can write this like three,

[23:58]four months. Like it's what I talk about at work. I make these videos like how much time could

[24:03]it possibly take. And I forgot that, you know, I'm not a professional author by training. And so

[24:09]I would need to have my editor help me actually write it well and shape it and reshape it a million

[24:16]times. You're obviously an author. You know, and there were some chapters we wrote, we must

[24:22]have rewritten like eight times. Like we really ripped them apart and put them back together. And

[24:27]you know, certain chapters like abortion or gender-firming care that we really scrutinize

[24:32]because there was going to be so much emphasis on those. Like if somebody was going to be like,

[24:35]oh, you know, like I don't love this argument or, you know, here's like a weakness in what

[24:39]you're saying. Like people really going to kind of like scrutinize those chapters. So I was still

[24:44]working full-time at the time. I working full-time as a doctor. I have the three kids. I literally

[24:50]wrote the book in like random hours overnight when my kids were sleeping. I would, my poor husband

[24:56]was the saint. Like he took the kids on the weekends. I would go to a hotel and I would just write for

[25:01]nine hours each day. Just cranking out, like, you know, writing, editing, revising, all of that.

[25:08]And it was, it definitely showed me like how much insane amount of work goes into putting

[25:14]together a finished traditionally published book. It was just quite an education for me.

[25:18]But like I said, I was like, I was so casual. I was like, I did like three or four months or whatever.

[25:22]And it took like a full year to write, rewrite, edit, you know, before it was finally like

[25:27]ready to print. So it's quite a process. Yeah. Yeah. And yet you're ready to do it again. So

[25:33]that I know, right? Like, let's choose once it's done, right? And of course, like, you know,

[25:37]like fiction authors will spend like five, 10 years. I mean, obviously like countless, you know,

[25:42]more iterations of revisions and stuff like that. So it really made me appreciate, you know,

[25:47]professional authors, bless. I am very impressed with what people do this like as their,

[25:53]their full career. So. So now that you are a published author, self in addition to all your

[25:59]other needs, do you have any advice for those at trying to tackle a similar project? Oh,

[26:06]okay. That's a great question. I would say, you know, because it is such a process and there are

[26:11]so many hurdles and like kind of like levels of gatekeeping, it is very difficult. And uh,

[26:16]but just to be motivated by who your, your future readers will be and the message that they

[26:23]need to hear and why you're the right one to give them that message. So, you know, now that I'm

[26:27]on this side and I'm seeing reviews and it's so powerful. Like, I mean, people are like, oh, I'm,

[26:31]I can't believe I, I, if I had this book when I like 20 years ago, I could have been saved

[26:37]so much suffering or I'm going to give this book to my daughter because I don't want her to go through

[26:42]what I did struggling to get information or to get help. You know, where people said like,

[26:46]oh, like, I, it finally helped me understand my own body and feel more in control. And so

[26:52]that's so powerful. Even if you reach like five people, like, you know, that's, it's potentially

[26:57]changed their lives. And I think that's incredible. It's, it's worth the like to us. It seems like,

[27:03]oh, it's, it's quite a like, um, you know, it's a struggle, but it's really not. It's fun. Like,

[27:08]it is an enjoyable process, even though we just made it sound really stressful.

[27:12]It's stressful in a fun way. And if we're privileged enough to, to be able to publish these

[27:16]books, uh, especially traditional publishing big five publishers, like, I mean, that is,

[27:21]it's like, you know, winning a gold medal just ended up itself. You're like, wow, I can't believe

[27:25]I did that. You know, if you get to that point, it is such a privilege and, and then just to,

[27:29]you know, it, I think authors who do get the book published then are like, oh, there's a whole

[27:34]other phase of the work, which is getting the book out there, doing podcasts, trying to, you know,

[27:39]help people understand that the book is exists. It is a lot of work too. And I know a lot of

[27:43]authors get really discouraged at that part. Like, oh my god, I'm an author. I'm not like a social

[27:47]media person. I'm not, you know, like a marketing expert or publicist. Like, what am I doing like

[27:54]this? And it is, it is a struggle that that I will say is definitely a struggle. It's the no

[27:59]sugar coating it. But it, it is something that hopefully people find a way that is natural for them

[28:06]that helps to get the book into the hands that needs to get into. So for me, you know, social media,

[28:11]like I've kind of found, you know, my place in using that as, as a way to reach people, you know,

[28:16]but you don't have to like become a social media person. You could, you know, whatever your

[28:19]community is. I tell people like everyone has a community in some way and you have a way of

[28:23]connecting with people in that, you know, whether it's local groups, whether it's, you know,

[28:28]word of mouth, whether it's in your professional society. It is just, there's some way that you

[28:31]can connect with people that you know, would resonate with this message or need this message.

[28:37]So just kind of find that and, and don't feel like, oh my god, I got to become a TikTok

[28:41]master, which I belong to a group of 2024 debut authors. And like everyone was literally like,

[28:48]oh my god, I feel like I have to learn TikTok now. And I'm like, no, no, no, no, you don't,

[28:52]you don't have to. If you want to, it's great, but it's not something that you must do if you're an

[28:56]author. I'm not sure how many people out there are authors and have felt that way, but don't

[29:01]feel that way. It's there to serve you if you need it. If it doesn't serve you, don't even bother

[29:06]if it's too stressful. Are you on TikTok? I don't actually, you're actually, this whole

[29:12]conversation has totally inspired me because I had never thought about TikTok as a teaching tool.

[29:16]And like, I have so many classes that I was thinking, you know, like, maybe I'd want to teach,

[29:19]but maybe I could just say, do one video, chop it up and like post it as an example. Yeah,

[29:23]yeah, right? Yeah, you could. Or YouTube. If you like that, like, YouTube is huge. It's like,

[29:29]apparently one of the biggest search engines, like if people are like searching for a topic,

[29:33]like YouTube, apparently, and it lives forever. It's easier to find stuff.

[29:36]It just takes a long time to make YouTube videos. I'll just say Eddie out there who's tried to make

[29:40]YouTube video. It takes a long time. So I'm just lazier. And I search YouTube for everything.

[29:46]I'm like, how? Oh, yeah. Like, I locked myself out of the car. Like, why won't my car do our

[29:50]clothes? Can you watch a video? And I'm like, what in the sidewalk? How do I close the

[29:54]stroller? How do I like do anything? Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And there's a great

[30:00]like I think a lot of YouTube's on books and writing and publishing like all that stuff.

[30:04]Yeah. I should do that. In my spare time, I will.

[30:07]Right, exactly. I'll get into that.

[30:10]No, we're all so busy. All of us. Everybody's busy. Okay. It's not a story. I thank you so much.

[30:15]I am, you know, very indebted on behalf of all the women and men and everybody who will benefit

[30:20]from your knowledge and your dispersion of information. Very grateful.

[30:24]Oh, thank you very much. Okay. Thanks for the time.

[30:27]Oh, I appreciate it. Okay. Bye.