Celebrity guest!! Josh Gad, PICTUREFACE LIZZY

[0:02]Welcome to Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books, hosted by me, Zibi Owens.

[0:07]It's an award-winning podcast with over 1900 episodes, all featuring authors of Books You Love, and those you have yet to discover.

[0:15]Listen daily five times a week, then go to ZibiMedia.com and learn more about what the LA Times called the Zibiverse.

[0:22]ZibiMedia includes Zibi's bookshelf, an independent bookstore in Santa Monica, ZibiBooks Publishing, Zibi Retreat, Zibi's Book Club, and more.

[0:31]Go check it out at ZibiMedia.com and follow me on Instagram at Zibi Owens. It'll take you where you need to go.

[0:38]Thanks for listening.

[0:43]Josh Gad is the author of The Pictureback, Picture, Face, Lizzy.

[0:47]Josh Gad is an award-winning actor, singer, and comedian.

[0:51]He is known for voicing Olaf in the frozen franchise, playing Elder Arnold Cunningham in the Broadway musical, The Book of Mormon, and Lefou in the live-action adaptation of Disney's Beauty and the Beast.

[1:02]Welcome, Josh. Thank you so much for coming.

[1:04]I'm starting out time to read books to discuss, Picture, Face, Lizzy, and everything else that you have created. Congratulations.

[1:11]I'm so excited to be here. Thank you so much for welcoming me.

[1:15]I'm very jealous, by the way. The listeners can't see your insanely path bookshelf behind you.

[1:21]But as an avid reader, I'm very jealous of what you've got going there.

[1:26]Oh, thank you. You should see the closet right behind it.

[1:29]I have it. I'm sure.

[1:30]Well, to all. I'm like, okay, I don't collect purses. I collect books.

[1:35]Other people would have all their shoes there, and I have like the two pairs of shoes I wear.

[1:40]Anyways, okay, Picture, Face, Lizzy, Fabulous, Loved, The Book.

[1:44]Where did this book idea come from? Why write a book at all? Tell me this whole story.

[1:48]So this one goes back interestingly enough to the pandemic, not the most obvious choice for inspiration,

[1:56]but during the pandemic, I found myself like many parents looking for an opportunity to,

[2:06]especially in the early days, figure out what the hell to do.

[2:09]Schools were trying to figure out how they were going to educate online that hadn't happened yet.

[2:15]Parents were trying to figure out how to, you know, take care of a child or multiple children while having to figure out how to pivot or work.

[2:25]And I felt that I saw it. I acknowledged it and I decided, I feel like within week one to just go online and start reading on my social media platforms to give parents an opportunity to cook an opportunity to clean an opportunity to cry and they could just leave their children with me.

[2:50]And I would read a book to the kids and I, in those early days, I was trying to do it every day and it really resonated with so many people.

[3:00]During that time, I, it became sort of a masterclass in children's literature.

[3:07]And as I started to read more and more of these books to others, I started to realize how much I loved the genre and how much I wanted to one day create.

[3:19]My own version of these really important, wonderful and imaginative works of literature for younger kids.

[3:29]And so it was sort of out of sight, out of mind.

[3:33]And I was approached by an editor at Penguin Random House who said, you know, if you're interested in writing a book, we'd love to have you.

[3:45]And I said to Jennifer Konsky, who's the person who reached out to me, that would actually be great.

[3:51]And the poor woman was inundated with ideas that I had.

[3:56]And none of which were particularly resonating with her to be fair.

[4:01]And we would have back and forth and there was one book idea that I'm probably going to circle back to eventually that I really started to go all in on.

[4:12]And for whatever reason, he kept pushing back a little saying, yeah, it's almost there, it's almost there, but it do this, do this.

[4:23]And I was doing it, but it was more of an exercise in kind of trying to please her rather than really figuring out where my passion for this idea was coming from.

[4:39]And one day, I during and around 2022, I want to say late 2021, it's all blur late 2021, I had gotten post vaccine I'd gotten my first bout of COVID wasn't particularly bad.

[4:57]My wife kicked me out of the house and made me quarantine in our guest house for seven days and I lost my mind.

[5:05]And I just felt like creatively uninspired and was just kind of like pacing like a caged animal.

[5:12]I took packs loaded and two months later, I got COVID again and I was like this, I can't, I looked at my wife and I said I'm not doing this again.

[5:21]If you don't want me to be in the house, I'm going to mask up and I'm going to go to a hotel and I am going to check myself into a room and treat myself at least to being imprisoned in in some form of luxury that comes with room service.

[5:40]And so I did that and I had this great desk in the room and this beautiful view and I was like, you know what I'm going to finish my book.

[5:50]And I sit down and as I sit down and I don't know what the hell I was thinking, I literally delete the document of this book that I've been working on and I start writing something completely different.

[6:10]And I pumped it out, I want to say in like 45 minutes and it was just really one of those like crazy events where you are touched by like some sort of divine inspiration.

[6:25]And I sent a transcript of a book to Jennifer that day was the first day I was in my hotel and she wrote me back and she goes, Oh my God, this is it.

[6:42]And the idea that I sat down and wrote was based on my girls being deprived of TikTok and fighting my wife and I tooth and nail because they know better than us.

[6:59]And I want to say at the time eight and or seven and 10, they were convinced that they should have TikTok and we were convinced that they should know.

[7:12]And this back and forth about our friends have it, why can't we and this back and forth on our part of being like, well, we know better than you and the two parties not understanding where the others coming from and not having a happy medium to meet in the middle of was something that I felt was a really important message.

[7:41]And it was something that I was struggling to articulate and so I wanted to create a story that articulated it for me.

[7:48]And that's how I created picture face Lizzie and picture face Lizzie is sort of a 21st century social media apparatus mixed with that.

[8:15]Social media apparatus mixed with the greatest doll you've ever seen, meaning it is completely digital.

[8:27]It has incredible functionality, it can do anything and it also interacts with you as a phone screen would meaning you can prompt it, you can send messages through it, but it also blinks and acts as like an American girl doll.

[8:44]So it's everything in one.

[8:46]And the main character in the book, Eve Tanya based on both of my girls, Ava and Izzy is this amazing girl with this incredible imagination and she loves to do things she loves to create with her hands.

[9:02]He loves to make art, he loves to go on adventures, he loves to travel, he loves to take pictures and her parents love that innocence and they love that imaginative spirit.

[9:16]And so as all of her friends not only immerse themselves with different picture face Lizzie's because it comes in different models, different themes, Eve still isn't allowed to get one.

[9:30]And one day, it creates a PowerPoint presentation and she convinces her mom and dad to let her get one.

[9:39]And their only message to her is don't lose yourself.

[9:45]You got one, but don't lose yourself in the process.

[9:48]Wait, so does this mean that you caved in and gave your daughter sick Doc or not?

[9:52]No.

[9:53]Where we're just, we are just giving in.

[10:00]to the other stuff, meaning we finally caved and gave her a phone two years ago. We finally

[10:07]caved in and are doing, you know, exploring the idea of Snapchat with like all of the parental

[10:16]protocols because the book was also an opportunity for me to learn, meaning I can't keep my kids

[10:25]in a bubble. And so I give them access to TikTok, but I don't let TikTok run their lives.

[10:33]They can use TikTok on my phone. I can monitor what they're doing. But suffice it to say,

[10:40]there's a happy medium for all of this stuff. And as much as I would love to deprive my kids

[10:47]of all of these things forever, I know I can't. My wife is less convinced she can't,

[10:54]but we are working towards compromises, always compromises. But the journey of the book

[11:02]is that Eve gets a picture face lizzy and like her friends loses herself in it. It becomes her

[11:11]life. It becomes everything. And soon during the course of the book, she starts to miss the little

[11:21]things. He starts to miss expressing herself in ways that aren't dictated simply through

[11:28]adding vis-a-vis doll. She starts to miss things like taking analog pictures. She starts to miss

[11:38]things like creating little clay, you know, things with her hands. And so as she puts her picture

[11:45]lizzy down and starts doing other things, the other kids are like, what the heck? And they start

[11:54]to get inspired by her. And they start to put their devices down. And they start to join in the

[11:59]fray. And one by one, you see that the kids find that they can use the doll and have fun with the

[12:10]but they can also do all of the things that make them their own picture face lizzy, right? They

[12:18]have all the intuition. They have all the imagination. They have all the creativity. And they have

[12:24]all of the desire to be their own creative vessels, to communicate ideas, thoughts, art.

[12:36]And that is the message of the book. The first time I ever had a panic attack in the process

[12:46]of writing it was the day I read it to my daughters and two of their friends because I really was

[12:53]like, this is the only way to vet this. Is this going to be pedantic? Are kids going to roll their

[12:59]eyes? Are they going to be annoyed with the message? I finished the book and they literally

[13:05]look at me and said, can you please read it again? And I was, so it was like the greatest review

[13:13]I've ever gotten in my life. And so I knew that I had something that really I think I know in my

[13:20]heart is going to work great for parents. But I think most importantly it has to work great for the

[13:25]kids. And I think it does. So I'm really excited about this message and I'm really excited about

[13:33]delivering it in a way that hopefully feels super authentic because I not only have I been there,

[13:40]I'm there. I'm in there. And still dealing with trying to figure out how much is too much

[13:47]and what's not enough. And that's the conversation that I want parents to engage in with their kids.

[13:54]Well, like you, I am there. And it's like a daily struggle. Is this too much time on this

[14:02]device? What do you do now? But then you have, you know, I think what your book really brings

[14:08]home though is you just don't want your kids to miss out. Right? Like I don't want my strictness

[14:12]which doesn't exist. I'm not particularly strict. But let's just say to have them miss out on

[14:17]like the group chat with all the friends from this camp or you know, because you kind of are missing

[14:22]out, right? Like if you, you are, there is a piece of life. It's not the most important necessarily,

[14:28]but there is a piece when you don't let your kids go on this device or this app or whatever with

[14:33]their friends that they are kind of missing out, right? Is that, that's kind of, I 100% agree. I also

[14:42]think that there is as much as we would like to pretend there isn't, there is a, there's a social

[14:49]consequence of them not having what everyone else has. It's the conversation we're having right

[14:56]now with Snapchat. Look, TikTok's a whole different thing. It is for me. It's an endless

[15:05]well that I sink into when I'm on there. And I don't want my kids to brainlessly. And that applies

[15:12]to not just TikTok and apply to YouTube. It's any of these video based services, it is a genius

[15:22]creation and that it's meant to keep you glued to the screen at all times. That's the part that I really

[15:28]struggle with is just making sure that they are able to engage in that. But with time restrictions

[15:40]and with an understanding that the content they're viewing has to be vetted. Great, easy.

[15:47]The much more difficult conversations that we're starting to have are things like Snapchat.

[15:52]It happens to be the way that this generation communicates. And my wife and I have been

[16:01]very opposed to Snapchat because I've seen people very close to me become so addicted to snapping

[16:13]that they don't know how to communicate outside of their phones. And I really want to make sure

[16:21]that my kids have a healthy relationship. But I also realize that I can't keep it from my daughter,

[16:31]forever. I can't let her be in 18. And the only person who hasn't had Snapchat most of her

[16:44]teenage life. So I realize that there's going to have to be a conversation about how we do it

[16:51]and that conversation is happening in tandem with her. And we're working through our concerns

[16:58]and we're working through her desires. And we're finding a place in the middle that allows

[17:06]all of us to sleep better at night knowing that she's not going to engage in a way that is

[17:15]going to disengage her from so much of what life has to offer. And again, I don't think I would have

[17:24]come to these understandings had I not done this deep exploration myself and done it from the

[17:32]point of view of the child and not the point of view of the parent. I have younger kids and I also

[17:39]have 17-year-old twins. And I'm like, you guys really think people want to see a picture of your elbow?

[17:43]Like, I don't get it. I don't get Snapchat at all. And like, seriously, it's like not even,

[17:50]it's like half their face and why I was at dinner with my niece and nephew who are both in college

[18:00]and they took like 30 pictures of themselves during dinner. And they were just lift up their

[18:06]phone, take a picture and put the phone down. And I looked at them and I was like, what is this?

[18:12]What like, I don't understand this. And then to a certain extent, I was like, yeah, I can see a

[18:20]world in which my parents when like we started texting were like, why don't you just pick up a phone

[18:26]and call your friends. So it's just the way they communicate now. And again, I realized like,

[18:33]who am I to pass judgment just because I don't understand the generational, you know, evolution of

[18:39]communication. So it's their thing. And again, I want my daughter to have that thing. I just want her

[18:48]to have other things as well.

[18:50]Well, I think the book not only is about technology, but also teaches sort of coveting in general.

[18:56]And what do you do when you don't have whether it's a piece of electronics or it's something

[19:01]about your lifestyle or whatever you don't have that you want, which by the way applies to parents,

[19:07]right? Just like looking at Instagram and seeing what everybody else is doing and thinking, right?

[19:11]We all have that like, oh, you know, is this enough? Why don't I have this or blah, blah, blah?

[19:16]And I think that putting that out in the open in the book and having her contend with it,

[19:22]having her parents like offer some sage advice. They could apply to everybody and ultimately

[19:27]making a choice of whether or not to get it. It's still, how do you wrestle with that feeling

[19:32]in a healthy way? Because it's going to be there for everybody.

[19:36]It's a brilliant observation. A lot of early readers have been quick to point out that it seems

[19:43]like a commentary on consumerism. It certainly wasn't the intention, but it happens to be a

[19:49]byproduct of, I think, what we all are living through right now. And to your point,

[19:55]FOMO is a real thing. You know, Instagram has...

[20:00]absolutely created anxiety in me over the years about things I'm missing out on, whether it's concerts,

[20:07]whether it's travel, whether it's a product, it's sort of the thing we don't talk about, right?

[20:14]And I think for my kids, it's amplified by a thousand, and during this early brain development,

[20:24]when you see that everybody's got a product, and you see that everybody is engaging in some

[20:33]social activity that you're not, those two things, right, that the consumerism aspect and the

[20:41]FOMO collide in a way that can have emotional repercussions. And I think it's imperative for parents to

[20:52]understand, even if you're not going to let them engage with those things, you have to be able

[20:59]to speak to those things because if you don't, my instinct is they're going to want to rebel.

[21:06]And I come to that conclusion based on my own child and being deprived of certain things and

[21:16]being like, well, damn it, I'm going to do it anyway. And I think that it's why having those conversations

[21:24]early and often is so important, based on my humble opinion, because it really gives everybody

[21:34]a foundation to build upon. And once you've started to have clear and honest conversations,

[21:45]your kids appreciate it more because it gives them a chance to debate you on it, which is great.

[21:53]And it gives them a chance to really understand your point of view in a way that they can

[22:01]maybe push back, but also over time appreciate it. And find that once you do give them that thing,

[22:09]they know what your expectations are and they can help you meet those expectations.

[22:16]So everybody's working off the same playbook.

[22:19]Sure. It would be nice if we all did actually have a playbook because I'm so tired of the endless

[22:24]navigation. But anyway, a GPS to parenting through devices. What's something that you saw on

[22:31]and Instagram recently that gave you a phone. I mean, two nights ago, a few nights ago, everybody

[22:38]was at the Rolling Stones concert in LA and I was like, damn it. Why didn't I go? Why didn't I think

[22:45]to go? It's, you know, you're the honest truth. Sometimes I wonder if I'm more interested in the

[22:55]experiences these days or the opportunity to post about the experience. And that's a really

[23:02]dark place to be. And I think that's the world that we've created is that like an experience

[23:11]doesn't exist unless it's photographed or videoed. And that's troubling in many ways. Having said

[23:21]I can't really pass judgment because that's me. So, but I can reflect on it and say, is that

[23:27]really who and what we want to be? I'm really fascinated by the comedy world in particular. When

[23:35]you go to a high profile comedy show, a stand up with Chris Rocker or, you know, whomever it may be,

[23:45]a lot of times they will make you secure your phone and put it away and lock it away.

[23:52]And what does that do? That forces you to sit there and it forces you to engage in a way that

[24:01]makes you focused and absolutely entertained because you're not worried about getting the moment

[24:11]on camera. You're only focused on the communal experience. Why I love acting on the stage.

[24:18]People aren't allowed to film on Broadway. It's just us. We're in a room. And what we do in that room

[24:29]is going to be remembered. Not photograph, not videoed, not rewatched. It's just our experience.

[24:39]And I want more of those moments. I long for more of those moments. I long to go on journeys

[24:49]that don't just become tokens in a digital archive, but that become memories that I can reflect

[25:00]back on. So, that's kind of my take away. And again, I think that to a smaller extent it's

[25:07]reflected in picture place, Lizzie. I feel like at this point, if I don't have a picture of it,

[25:13]I have so little confidence that I will actually remember anything.

[25:18]Fair. That's fair. That's like an aging problem, which the girls in picture face, Lizzie,

[25:24]are thankfully not doing this. You mentioned as, you know, a joke, your panic attack,

[25:31]you didn't reading it to your kids. But I saw that you did contribute a video to the child

[25:35]mind institute about your own anxiety. And I'm actually on the board of the child mind institute.

[25:40]And I have my amazing. I have anxiety out my ears. Like, I don't even, even at the best.

[25:46]Yeah. Yeah. So what I just to see how sort of that was being managed. I mean,

[25:52]how do you feel about it? I feel like anxiety almost makes me a more sensitive person. And I don't

[25:58]even mind it, honestly. I am so depressed in, but I am so grateful to have anxiety. I am so

[26:07]grateful to have been crippled by anxiety to a point that I can now really reflect on where I've

[26:20]been and where I am. And when I say crippled by anxiety, my first bout of paralyzing panic attacks

[26:33]happened when I was a junior going into my senior year of college. There was a great deal of change

[26:42]on the horizon. My parents were moving out of my childhood home. I was about to go study abroad

[26:49]and leave the country by myself in the first time in my life. I was on the precipice of

[26:55]graduating and becoming an adult. And all of that culminated with me literally being paralyzed

[27:04]by this, at first, I thought I was having a heart attack, like it was horrible.

[27:10]And over the course of that summer, I really, really, really got some incredible

[27:23]help from amazing therapists, from amazing psychiatrists, and was able to get on a path

[27:35]that was both with the help of an SSRI. And the help of the therapist, it gave me a chance to

[27:45]live. I mean, I felt like I was in a prison of my own making. It was horrifying. And ever since then,

[27:53]I haven't been able to manage that anxiety and appreciate the fact that it's always there. It's

[28:02]always lingering. But I use it now in different ways, almost as a weapon. And I kind of

[28:13]feel blessed to have that. It was a really profound experience watching inside out too,

[28:19]because it really, I thought, did an incredible job of personifying this thing that

[28:27]comes with so much baggage in a way that kids and even, frankly, adults can really understand and

[28:36]appreciate it. But I've had it. I have it. And I think my guess is that most people in this

[28:50]stay in age probably have some form of it, even if they don't recognize it. And I think that's a

[28:56]byproduct of the time we live in, again, like the book indicates technologies evolving faster

[29:05]than humans are. And I think a lot of us, I think probably all of us are not yet equipped

[29:15]to appreciate what that means. And to really deal with what that means. Our brains pretty much

[29:29]in one generation have been immersed in things that humanity has never seen in the millennia that

[29:39]we've been around. And one generation ain't enough time to catch ourselves up to what's happening

[29:48]around us. And I do worry that it's not slowing down. And this question that a lot of people have,

[29:58]which is why?

[30:00]does Gen Z, why do millennials seem so much more stricken by anxiety and depression than previous

[30:07]generations? I think the answer is staring us in the face. I don't think we have the processing

[30:14]power or ability to constantly be immersed in technology in the way that we're being asked to

[30:26]and also deal with confrontations in a way that we've never had to. You can now bully people

[30:36]without ever showing your face. You can now engage in harassment on a group level and do it

[30:46]with a pseudonym or with a fake name. You can make a video go viral and ruin somebody's life.

[30:52]You can dock some person. There are so many things out there. And then you think about the

[30:59]things we previously discussed, the dark side of FOMO, right? I mentioned I have anxiety. You

[31:05]are not making this better. But we have to also deal with it. No, I'm kidding. I'm kidding. If you're a

[31:13]kid and you see all your friends are out on snap and you're not there, what is that duty?

[31:19]So I think that these are conversations that we need to have as anxiety inducing as they may

[31:26]be. And I think that like sometimes we're afraid to have those conversations because they're

[31:32]overwhelming. Certainly they are for me. And we don't have the solutions because we don't discuss

[31:38]it. So I think that that's very accurate. And I think that it's a problem. And having said that

[31:47]to all of those listeners out there who do have anxiety know that there is hope, know that there

[31:53]is a path. And that's coming from somebody who really felt like they were at the end of their journey

[31:59]and didn't see a way out. Oh, that's amazing. Well, I could clearly talk to you all day. I only

[32:06]like scratch the service at 8,000 more things I wanted to talk to you about. But whatever to be

[32:09]continued at some other point. I think that picture face Lizzie is going to spark a lot of similar

[32:15]conversations that are really important to be having between parents and kids and between

[32:19]parents and each other and kids with each other. And I think that is probably the most helpful

[32:24]thing that we can do when confronted by something without clear guidelines and without knowing what's

[32:31]coming next is to talk and connect. And the book is such a lynch pin in that. And I think it will

[32:37]help a lot of people. I really do. And it was very entertaining. So congratulations. Oh, I really

[32:42]appreciate that. I really appreciate this. I'm so excited for people to read it. I'm so excited to

[32:49]engage with parents as they read it and have these discussions. I'm so excited to hear what kids think

[32:56]because at the end of the day, that's who I wrote it for. And I think, you know, it feels hopefully

[33:03]like a conversation starter, which is all you want when you're doing something like this.

[33:07]Now you have to go invent the picture face Lizzie and like get that on the market ASAP.

[33:12]It's so funny. It's the amount of the small group of people who have read it,

[33:17]have been begging for me to do that. And I'm like, I will, but isn't it counterintuitive to the

[33:25]message? I'm going to know, I will benefit. And yet here we are. So grateful for your time. And

[33:41]thank you for having me on grateful for your time as well. Okay. Thanks so much. Thank you. Okay. Take care.

[33:49]Thanks for listening to mom's Don't Have Time to Read Books. If you love it, please leave

[33:53]a review and follow us on social at Civi Owens and at Civi readers.