Cathryn Michon, I'M STILL HERE: A Dog's Purpose Forever
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[0:42]Katherine Moshan is the author of I'm Still Here, a dog's purpose forever.
[0:47]Katherine Moshan is a filmmaker, actor, comic, and nationally bestselling author.
[0:51]She is the co-screen writer, along with her husband, Bruce Cameron, of the films A Dog's Purpose, A Dog's Way Home, and A Dog's Purpose 2, and A Dog's Journey.
[1:00]Welcome, Katherine. Thank you so much for coming on mom's turn-of-time to read books to discuss.
[1:04]I'm still here, a dog's purpose forever. Congrats.
[1:08]Oh, my dog's thank you for having me. It's such an exciting thing.
[1:11]Oh, my gosh.
[1:13]This book went right to my heart. Oh, my gosh. Do you just cry every time?
[1:18]Tell me about writing it. Tell me about why you wrote it. Tell me the whole thing.
[1:23]Well, you know, it's funny that dog on the cover that you just showed, that's my little dog Tucker.
[1:30]And I really, you know, Bruce and I, my husband, Bruce Cameron, and I went on this big long, a dog's purpose journey.
[1:38]And, you know, we've made three movies of his books and the novel has been, you know, it's really a classic novel.
[1:46]And I always felt, he always felt this too, that we wanted there to be sort of a more gentle introduction to the A Dog's Purpose philosophy,
[1:56]which is basically that our souls are eternal, their souls are eternal, and this is an eternal relationship.
[2:03]And so we talked about it a lot and I really wanted it to be this beautiful, graphic gift book that you might buy for yourself,
[2:13]but odds are a lot of the time you'd buy it for someone else who has lost a dog.
[2:19]And, you know, the dog is just telling you, I'm still here and I'm still your dog.
[2:26]And our relationship is eternal, even as I'm over the rainbow bridge with all the people and animals that you have loved.
[2:34]It took 10 years to find the publisher that would make a book like this that would make with full color watercolor paintings and on beautiful textured watercolor paper and all the things about it that are so lovely.
[2:50]But, honestly, at a price point that people could afford for that gift, you know, a lot of people wanted to make it some big, you know, expensive coffee table book, which would have been lovely.
[3:02]But, you know, didn't suit the need for that gesture, you know, that the book I hope is becoming.
[3:11]So, when I interviewed your husband Bruce last week, I think I was grilling him a little bit too much because I was like, but how do you know that the dogs come back?
[3:25]You have a deep belief, you and Bruce both that I really want to believe and I mentioned to him, you know, my rational brain says, how could dog souls return in the body of the next dog, which is in your movies and in the book and that they're never really gone.
[3:42]But what is it just a fundamental faith that you have and have you always had it because I know you were convinced sort of.
[3:50]I have not always had it and it is it is a come to believe thing for me heard of it has to do with experiences I've had.
[3:59]When I've lost people or dogs just I'll just tell you one story and you'll probably think it's weird because you are a rational thinker and I respect that.
[4:08]But I like to believe, I mean, I believe in science, I but you know, I like to believe that there is more than what we can see.
[4:15]Well, not long after a dog's purpose polished and we were sitting in our dining room table and we are houses like years we got a lot of books everywhere.
[4:24]And we have bookshelves near our dining room table and I'd always put my dog Ellie's collar on that shop.
[4:32]By the table, so I think of her and we were talking and first said, you know, I wonder if what Ellie thinks of a John's purpose in the book and you know, if she's a character in the book he named one of the four dogs dog bodies after my dog Ellie.
[4:49]And so I wonder what she thinks and literally at that very moment that caller just left off the shelf and clatter to the floor.
[4:59]And I know it's California and you say oh you were having it real quick we're not having an earthquake I checked I checked the size model just by nothing had happened except that that caller just came flying off that shelf.
[5:12]And you know that's just one experience that I've had and my dad passed there was a whole thing that happened where my my aunt said oh I was in the garden and this dragonfly landed on my shoulder and he wouldn't leave and my dad was a pilot.
[5:28]So it makes so much sense to me that you would come back as something that fly because that was his favorite thing and I was very jealous of the experience and I said to my husband this is like the day after he has.
[5:42]I said where's my damn dragonfly like I don't care why does it come to her I need to hear from him.
[5:49]The next thing I know I picked up the mail and there was a condolence car my first condense card from my friend Chris and on the cover was a beautiful dragonfly and I'm like.
[6:03]So like in the rational explanations for those things but for me, it began to solidify a belief system where I just I just think our souls are.
[6:18]too important not to be eternal our souls and their souls I mean anyone that has a relationship with a dog knows what loving.
[6:29]I actually think their teachers, you know, I think a lot of it in the book I'm still here a dog's purpose forever, the dog has a lot of really good advice.
[6:41]Yeah, talks about how people spend too much time and fear and they really don't I, the example always give is that the tech or my dog, if you say go for a car ride my go for a car ride.
[6:54]And he's a senior dog now he's going to be 13 and October and quite often the car ride ends up at the vet and he does not like the vet not one bit.
[7:02]But he never approaches a car ride as it's potentially going to the vet it's always something good.
[7:10]And then when it's the vet he lets it go after we've left, you know, like he doesn't live in that in that fear and and dread that most of us do a lot of the time.
[7:23]You know, so if my soul is eternal and I do believe that that has to be, you know, I love that I just love it so much.
[7:33]So when did you conceive of doing this project and yeah, how did it come about?
[7:39]Well, I mean, like I said, it became a 10 year project I've got us.
[7:43]Having your projects I'm too old for this.
[7:45]And you see, I guess you get a faster going.
[7:48]But, you know, the movie a dog's purpose was a 10 year project.
[7:52]I mean, Hollywood is always a 10 year project.
[7:54]But, you know, I just I had this idea and did, you know, explore with a bunch of different publishers.
[8:00]But really we were also really they making movies and that was another thing.
[8:04]Yep.
[8:05]And COVID shut that down.
[8:08]And then we had two strikes.
[8:10]And so I sort of got the gift of time that allowed.
[8:15]I'll try to see it as a gift because look at what it resulted in.
[8:19]I love that you just had a vision, a clear vision for it.
[8:23]And it just like came to you this way and that you were able to make it happen.
[8:28]Yeah.
[8:29]Yeah.
[8:30]That's amazing.
[8:31]Yeah, I'm grateful.
[8:32]Really grateful.
[8:33]Wait.
[8:34]Tell me more about because you were a screenwriter on all the movies as well.
[8:38]You and your husband did it together.
[8:40]First of all, how do you and your husband work together without fighting or do you fight or what is that like?
[8:47]Well, sure.
[8:48]I mean, we have created a fight.
[8:50]You know, I mean, I think all artists have to stand up for what they, you know,
[8:54]they're seeing their vision.
[8:56]If you're not a good artist, if you can't defend the vision.
[8:59]We do have a thing where when we make movies, the person who's because, you know, a fail
[9:06]made gets you nowhere.
[9:07]Right.
[9:08]So when we're making movies from his IP, his books, he does have the final word.
[9:12]And I think that's fair.
[9:14]You know, because he created it.
[9:16]Although we're heading into a different situation because I'm directing his next movie.
[9:21]And he does acknowledge that the director, you know, a scene has to go.
[9:26]Like, I can't always ask, I'll always ask his opinion.
[9:31]But at a certain point, you're in an editing room and something goes, you know.
[9:36]So, but we talked about it.
[9:38]I think the thing that people when they collapse, we went to a therapist.
[9:42]We, you know, said ground rules.
[9:44]We, because our marriage is important to us, obviously.
[9:48]And our work is really important to us.
[9:49]I think we're both kind of word of hollocks.
[9:51]I don't know why that has to be in a hollock, though I just, I love my work.
[9:56]Yeah.
[9:57]It's where we're, we're hard worker.
[10:00]And so we put a lot of effort into that.
[10:03]People always ask that question, it's a good one, you know,
[10:05]because if you work with your spouse at all,
[10:10]it's, you know, first of all, you don't want to sleep
[10:12]at the office, you know.
[10:13]You have to go into a different room, right?
[10:17]You must have been writing.
[10:18]You have to find separate times where it's just fun
[10:22]and not talking about work, you know.
[10:25]Yeah, well.
[10:26]And what about even the creative vision
[10:29]of how you're translating the books onto the screen?
[10:32]Because that's a whole thing in and of itself.
[10:34]That's a whole thing.
[10:34]I know you have filmmakers in your family
[10:37]and you know about this.
[10:39]And you got a lot of filmmakers like that.
[10:43]You know, it is kill your darlings, of course.
[10:46]You know, a movie isn't five hours long
[10:49]and you have to get down to the essence of it.
[10:52]And, you know, I was a screenwriter before I met Bruce
[10:55]and Bruce had always been a novelist.
[10:58]I don't know if he told you, but he wrote nine unpublished novels.
[11:02]I wouldn't type nine novels before his textbook published.
[11:08]So he's a dedicated, you know, real writer.
[11:12]And I had come from television and from film.
[11:15]And so he kind of allowed me to take the lead in that
[11:19]because I had done it.
[11:20]And when it comes to these really tough decisions
[11:23]of what you let go, that's why I always say of course,
[11:27]see the movie we want you to see the movie,
[11:29]but read the book is always better.
[11:31]It's always richer and has more detail.
[11:33]And that's, you know, I watched your brother's movie, Niaad.
[11:37]And I loved it.
[11:39]And then I went and read her book.
[11:41]And there was, you know, more detail.
[11:44]And it was great.
[11:45]And that's the process.
[11:47]That's the art form.
[11:48]So you have to get to a place where you can say,
[11:51]I know that scene was great, didn't have time.
[11:56]Well, but you're also a writer.
[11:58]So you wrote a girl, a girl genius,
[12:00]guide to being a girl.
[12:01]The girl didn't spend the life.
[12:02]That was memoir.
[12:03]And it was a crazy memoir.
[12:05]It's not normal, memoir.
[12:09]I loved your memoir, but it was.
[12:10]Oh, thank you.
[12:11]Thank you.
[12:13]I was in New York at 9-11.
[12:14]So the resume did with me a lot.
[12:17]My memoir is, it's about me,
[12:19]but it's also about a lot of other women
[12:21]because the whole idea was declare yourself
[12:23]to be a genius with no empirical evidence whatsoever
[12:26]just so you can get through the day, you know,
[12:28]because men do that all the time
[12:29]where they get declared geniuses.
[12:31]Why isn't everyone talking about how Greta Gerwig
[12:33]is a genius?
[12:34]She is.
[12:35]I mean, she is, you know, but it's all about, you know,
[12:37]the other guy and what a genius he was.
[12:39]And I think they're both geniuses, you know.
[12:41]So that was the premise of the book,
[12:43]but then I included all these stories of women
[12:47]who I think are geniuses or who are geniuses
[12:50]who were unacknowledged like Malefa Merrick Einstein,
[12:54]who is Einstein's wife who co-wrote the paper
[12:57]that postulated E equals MC squared
[12:59]and in fact, it all the calculations
[13:01]because she was the better mathematician.
[13:03]And then at some point,
[13:05]the relationship fell apart
[13:08]and he was the more powerful person
[13:10]and he had her name removed from all those papers
[13:12]and people talk about Einstein
[13:15]and the very relativity was Einstein's
[13:19]and it was the theory of relativity.
[13:20]So I started talking about a lot of things like that,
[13:22]which are really important to me.
[13:25]It was a memoir where I turned the focus on the other people.
[13:29]I love that.
[13:30]Why not make ourselves geniuses, right?
[13:32]I mean, yeah.
[13:34]Yeah.
[13:35]And I do it.
[13:35]I'm so genius, please.
[13:36]I'm not gonna tell my rest to you for being here.
[13:41]Oh my gosh.
[13:42]I mean, what does really make a genius after all, right?
[13:44]Hard work, creative thinking.
[13:47]I don't know.
[13:48]Something out of the ordinary.
[13:49]I don't know.
[13:50]Lots of women doing this.
[13:51]A spark of a vision.
[13:53]A spark of a vision.
[13:54]A dog's purpose to me was a genius,
[13:57]but you asked about the soul.
[14:01]How do we know?
[14:01]Well, the interesting thing about the premise of that book
[14:04]and then subsequently my book is that
[14:07]we don't know, they can't tell us.
[14:10]So it is entirely possible
[14:12]that the dog you loved today was sent to you
[14:15]by the dog you loved yesterday.
[14:18]And that they don't really,
[14:20]they don't really need to tell us in the movie,
[14:22]a dog's purpose.
[14:23]The dog figures out a way,
[14:25]like throwing the call out of the shelf, but you know.
[14:28]But I think they are content dogs to their purpose
[14:34]is to guide us whether physically or emotionally,
[14:40]to becoming more joyful people.
[14:43]And that if it's takeaway from I'm still here,
[14:46]a dog's purpose forever,
[14:48]I think the dog is just asking you to be guided towards joy.
[14:54]But he's also comforting you
[14:56]because there are some very deep moments in the book
[15:00]where the dog, for example,
[15:02]really wants you to know that they know
[15:06]when we are helping them cross over the bridge.
[15:09]And they are grateful and they want us to know that.
[15:13]And I think if anyone's ever had to make the decision
[15:18]to put a dog down, we can't do that with people
[15:21]for all the reasons, but we can do it with dogs.
[15:24]And it's the compassionate right thing to do.
[15:29]They don't need to suffer.
[15:30]There's no reason to let them suffer.
[15:33]And I think their trust in us is so absolute
[15:38]that they know that we're helping them.
[15:40]They'll let me know when it's time.
[15:43]This makes me, I have so much anticipatory sadness
[15:46]because my dog is like camouflaged into the couch
[15:50]behind her, she's 10.
[15:52]And my daughter the other day was like,
[15:55]oh my gosh, if anything ever happens,
[15:56]and I was like, honey, something is going to happen
[15:59]because this is going to happen over the next,
[16:03]what five years, like we can't stop it.
[16:05]So we just have to enjoy our time with her, right?
[16:08]That's all we can do is savor the moments, right?
[16:11]And it's interesting because in my book,
[16:14]no one's ever, people always say,
[16:16]why must they live short lives?
[16:17]Why can't they live as long as we do?
[16:20]And nobody's ever asked the dog.
[16:22]And in my book, the dog says that he thinks it's a good thing
[16:27]because that way he says we can go first
[16:31]and show you that it's no big deal.
[16:33]And then when it's your time to cross over the bridge,
[16:37]we can be there to meet you.
[16:39]And this is another, you'll like this
[16:41]this is evidence-based, you talk to hospice workers
[16:45]and I've spoken to many of them.
[16:47]They will say that at the end of people's lives,
[16:50]they will see people and animals,
[16:53]they love at the end of the bed waiting to,
[16:56]as the dog says in my book, fetch you home.
[17:00]And that is, it's so common that hospice workers
[17:04]are never surprised because, and they're good.
[17:08]If you're looking for evidence of the eternal nature
[17:11]of our souls, talk to hospice,
[17:14]that nurse Hadley wrote that wonderful book in between,
[17:18]which I loved.
[17:19]And she's just saying that over and over and over again,
[17:22]that she sees it in her daily work.
[17:26]So, I mean, that's something else
[17:28]that maybe you can share with your kids.
[17:30]I mean, this is an adult, this is a book written for Grandus,
[17:35]but I absolutely have read it to kids in the process.
[17:39]And they love it.
[17:42]They really love it.
[17:43]But we get much more emotional reading,
[17:46]I'm still here at Don's Purpose Forever than kids do.
[17:48]There's one kid that we have
[17:49]that's kind of a super fan of Bruce, who read it early on.
[17:53]And he loved it, he loved hearing the whole thing
[17:57]from the dog about life and what happens after life,
[18:03]he got it.
[18:04]Yeah.
[18:05]Well, it's universal in the way that you wrote about it
[18:09]and sort of package the information with the pictures
[18:11]and all of it is so that you can't help
[18:15]but respond to it emotionally
[18:17]and feel very invested and I had made it's emotional.
[18:22]Anyway, it's been good in all the good ways,
[18:24]in all the good ways.
[18:26]And you know, I put myself on the line.
[18:28]I made my own senior dog, the angel dog.
[18:31]And as I wrote the book, he sat at my feet,
[18:34]I write in the Eames chair, I sit there and write,
[18:36]and he sits at my feet.
[18:39]And I joke that he dictated to me during his many naps.
[18:44]But I did feel him and his energy and the things.
[18:50]There was something that happened during the writing
[18:52]of the book where there's a little game
[18:54]that my dog Tucker likes to play
[18:56]and it's called Take Out the Garbage.
[18:57]We live in a condo and we have a garbage shoot.
[19:00]And you know, he likes to go with me and run down the hall
[19:03]and take out the garbage in one day,
[19:05]a piece of paper towel flew out of the garbage bag
[19:09]and he grabbed it in the air and he ran around
[19:11]and he ripped it up and he loved it.
[19:13]It was so much fun.
[19:14]And then the next time we did it,
[19:16]I thought, oh, I'm just gonna throw a paper towel
[19:18]and see if he does the same thing and he did the same thing.
[19:21]So that became the game.
[19:22]And now when I would say,
[19:23]Take Out the Garbage, he goes mad, he's so excited.
[19:26]But I got busy and I a couple of times,
[19:30]like kind of sneaked out and took out the garbage
[19:33]and didn't play the game
[19:34]because I was too busy and I didn't want to clean up
[19:35]all this stuff in the hallway.
[19:36]And I came back into the vestibule and he was there
[19:40]and he was looking at me with those big brown eyes.
[19:43]Like, you did it without me.
[19:45]And I thought, this is the lesson
[19:49]I should always have the extra four minutes
[19:54]that it takes to play the game with him, you know?
[19:58]And that's what he's here to teach.
[20:00]me. You've got to find that four minutes to play a stupid game. And you know, that could be
[20:06]with your kids or anything. You know, you have to not get so busy and focused and that you don't
[20:13]have the time for those moments of joy. And I'm like, oh my God, that's what he's here to teach me.
[20:18]And I need to pay attention to that lesson. You know, that hits him for me.
[20:23]I'm just like really excited about everything I'm doing. Like you don't feel like
[20:40]like people who watch TV aren't TV, a hollex, you know, it's them to enjoy. You know, there's no
[20:45]nugget. We don't have to spin a negative thing on it. Like, oh, I read too much. Like I talked to
[20:50]too many people about books. Like, what you're doing. It's so great that you are so
[20:59]author supportive and author forward and that you have this forum. It's really, it's meaningful. And
[21:05]I think you're, I think you're changing publishing. Honestly. That's lovely. You're a genius. Don't forget.
[21:13]Oh, okay. Yes. Now I have to get your girl genius book and just like remind myself each morning.
[21:18]Yeah. It's a good bathroom book and what they're in. Thank you. Thank you. Appreciate it.
[21:24]Do you have any advice for aspiring authors? Yeah. I think not being precious about just getting
[21:33]started. You know, it's a lot of what I write tends to be dialogue oriented. And I think if you just
[21:40]do nothing, but let them talk. You know, I sometimes, because I'm an actor, I can, my background
[21:46]was being an actor. I just, I just start, I'll be on a walk and I'll start talking like the person
[21:51]that I want to write, including if it's a dog, because I read a lot of dogs. They're the best
[21:56]characters to write. They're so fun. You'll never have a more joyful or optimistic character. You know,
[22:04]it was so lucky that we got Josh Gad for the first movie. Because Josh is like a dog. He's like,
[22:10]like, when I watched the movie with him, when we watched the final cut together, he was
[22:16]laughing at every joke he had as it had never heard it before. And then stopping at every
[22:23]emotional moment. Like, I'm like, that's, you know, so to write a character like that is great,
[22:28]but I think for, for beginning writers, find your character, find your characters. And let them
[22:35]you know, just let them talk. And then figure out what the book is and then destruction, all the
[22:39]things, but I think it's, it's more simple than, than people make it. I love that. Actually, Josh was
[22:46]just on this podcast to talk about picture face Lizzie. It's his new children. Oh, I know,
[22:50]I don't know. I'm so excited. But we're on the zinnies list together. Oh my gosh. Well, Catherine,
[22:57]congratulations. Your book is so beautiful. It's going to be so helpful. You know, the book to give
[23:03]to anybody who has lost a dog or any, and haven't we all, I mean, I don't know, everybody,
[23:09]it's just, it's, it will be such a bomb. And it already has been for me in anticipation and for prior
[23:17]dog losses and all of the rest. I do want to share one little thing about this. Yes. Yes.
[23:21]Physically, because I know you physically love books. Yeah, I do not find it very specifically,
[23:28]it doesn't have a dust jacket and it has this front leaf, which is a painting of footprints
[23:34]at the shore. It happened to be my footprints in my dog's paw prints. And what I want and hope people
[23:41]will do is take old fashioned little graph moth photo corners like used to make your
[23:47]just scrapbooking. If you're like that kind of a person and put a photo of the angel dog,
[23:52]you want to remember right in that front leaf of the book so that every time you pick it up,
[23:57]you see that picture of your dog as you're reading these words. That was, as far as I know,
[24:04]what is that designed a book to be almost like a scrapbook to be a book that's meant to be
[24:10]customized for you because I really want this book to be for each individual angel dog. And
[24:18]as I did a pre-sale program where I've been signing book plates and I got all these inscriptions
[24:23]and it's like for cocoa, the best dog ever and cocoa is the best dog ever. And I just want
[24:29]people to personalize this physical book, which is very beautiful as a way of, because we don't,
[24:36]we don't have that. We don't have earns usually or grave sites or things that are a
[24:42]place where we go to remember the dog. So I want this book to be that for people. So beautiful.
[24:48]So beautiful. Well, thank you, Catherine. I hope you had the bookshop soon. I'm sure.
[24:53]I hope so. Thank you for all of your time and all of your wonderful work.
[24:57]Thank you so much, Debbie. Okay. Of course. All right. Enjoy your day. Bye.
[25:05]Thanks for listening to moms. Don't have time to read books. If you love it, please leave a review
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