Bernard-Henri Lévy, ISRAEL ALONE

[2:04]Zibby Owens: to moms don't have time to read Books hosted by me, Zibby Owens. It's an award winning podcast with over 1,900 episodes all featuring authors of books you love and those you have yet to discover. Listen daily five times a week. Then go to zivymedia.com and learn more about what the LA Times called the Ziviverse. Zibby Media includes Zibby's Bookshop, an independent bookstore in Santa Monica, Zibby Books Publishing, Zibby Retreats, Zibby's Book Club, and more. Go check it out at zivymedia.com, and follow me on Instagram at Zibby Owens. It'll take you where you need to go. Thanks for listening. Bernard Henri Levy is the author of Israel alone. If you don't know him, Bernard Henri Levy is a French philosopher, director of eight films, and author of, wait for it, 48 books. Levy is one of the West's foremost intellectuals defending democracy and humanism against totalitarianism and fascism. His recent books include The Will to See, Dispatches from a World of Misery and Hope, The Virus in the Age of Madness, The Empire and the Five Kings, The Genius of Judaism, American Vertigo, Traveling America in the Footsteps of Tocqueville, and Who Killed Daniel Pearl. Levy has made films on the war in Bosnia, Libya, Iraq, Kurdistan besieged by ISIS, and Afghanistan, Somalia, Bangladesh, Nigeria, and Ukraine. Levy's work as an intellectual, a writer, and a filmmaker is intertwined with humanitarian is intertwined with humanitarian activism. For fifty years, Levy has reported on the world's forgotten wars and devoted numerous books, films, and articles to these crises. Levi has participated in various peace plans and contacts with Israeli leaders from Menachem Begin to Shimon Peres and from Ariel Sharon, Yitzhak Shamir, and Yitzhak Rabin. Welcome, Bernard. Thank you so much for coming on Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books to discuss your amazing, powerful new book, Israel Alone. Thank you so much. Thank you. In the book, you talk about being in Israel on October 8 and everything that came next. Talk about this particular book. I know you've written so many. How essential it was to write and what everybody picking it up needs to know about the book. I don't know what

[4:27]Bernard-Henri Lévy: has to be known. Difficult for me to reply. Only thing I can tell you is two things. Number one, a writer of my sort, a Jewish writer, always has a remote rendezvous, a remote meeting with this sort of book. Anna Ren hadith, Saul Belo hadith. Any Jewish writer, Raymond Warren in France, I had a secret rendezvous with that book. I wrote a lot about Israel. I defended Israel all my life. I went to Israel since sixty years. I met every single Prime Minister of Israel since David Ben Gurion. But I never wrote a proper book about Israel. There is here and there in my previous books, notes, some pieces of chapter and so on, but never a proper book. So I knew in the back of my mind that I had this secret rendezvous as any Jewish secular writer. Number two, suddenly there was, how can I say, I will not say of course the circumstance and even less the opportunity, but the event of October 7 was the occasion to fulfill, to meet this rendezvous? And I remember so well, I was on October 7 at my home in Paris, in my apartment. I heard the news and I immediately felt concluded and felt in my flesh that there was no other place in the world where I should be except in the kibbutzim, which were at that very minute hurt and hit. So I took the first possible plane, the first one, there was no Air France, every company cancelled the flight to Israel. I found the flight and I was there the day after in the South, in the city of Jerod. Then two days after I was in Farazhan, Beiry. And the book took place there. This book about Israel, this book of philosophy, it is not a book of opportunity. You know, is not on the I read often that it's a book about the October 7. Not really. It's of course, it is that. It started on October 7. And it started with a promise which I did, an oath which I made to the families of hostages, to the rescape of the massacre, to whom I promised to write it, but it is much broader. And it was really created by what I saw, what I heard, the testimony of those who saw everything, of those who escaped the program, of the families who started to wait for the comeback of their beloved ones. I spent all these weeks in Israel and it was one of the worst experience of my life. And I lived a few experiences and a few dark experiences in my life, even in this sort of events. Have been also a war reporter all my life. But this October 7, the days after, for me, it shook me from top to toes. And I made the oath to

[8:07]Zibby Owens: fulfill the rendezvous. Oh my gosh. Well, thank you for sharing what the experience was like for you and and more. I mean, the whole premise of this book is that for so many other nations well, not the whole premise, but a part of it, is that Israel is on its own, that other nations have people coming to its defense, and and Israel is there. I mean, they're there fighting every day. And you talk a lot about how people debate if Israel has the right to defend itself, But that really it has the right to win. Exactly. That's exactly what

[8:43]Bernard-Henri Lévy: I claim on and on since the first publication of the book in French till this minute to you. The right to defend oneself, of course, of course, even the worst state on earth has this right according to the law, international law. The real right which Israel have and the real duty which we have is to let Israel do it, which is to win. To win against terrorism, to win against barbarity, to win against the axis of radical Islamist movements, countries and so on, led by Iran, of course, but not only Iran, Turkey, Russia, who is maneuvering the whole thing. So this is a right which Israel has. And Israel does it, as you would say proudly in your own book. All this period has been horrible. We are living a really terrible time since one year. The only positive point is that all these events oblige us, permitted a sort of Jewish pride to wake up in each of us, Jews in America, those who contribute to your book, the Jews in the rest of the diaspora and Jews in Israel. And there was a sort of affirmation, a calm, cold blooded, not bragging, not hubris, not with hubris. No, but a self affirmation of being a Jew, which you know again, as well as me, which has been one of the effects of paradoxical effect of this terrible unprecedented trauma.

[10:41]Zibby Owens: Yes. I feel that in my bones as well. I feel like there was a whole community that didn't know how close they were, and now all of a sudden, everybody is like, you know, like gophers coming out of the grass. Right? Here we are, and we're all together, and that's amazing. As someone who has studied, been in Israel so much, foremost thinker on this topic, when you have all these antisemitic attacks and things, for example, the the whole shelf awareness scandal that I posted about that we talked about last week, and you came out in the Wall Street Journal, and you're like, this isn't the first time, but it's so blatant. What what do you make of things like that? What do we do with that if when it feels like every direction? It's coming at us. It's like we're in a rainstorm, and, like, I don't even know which way to put my umbrella. How do what do you do with that?

[11:32]Bernard-Henri Lévy: We do what we do what Barry Weiss did in Free Press. What I did in Wall Street Journal, what you are doing now, we don't let that go. We don't permit it. We don't receive this offence, a sort of natural disaster. We express all our indignation. That's not normal. It's not normal that the author of so many books, as I did, I don't even dare to say, is banned and censored for this book precisely because the title is supposed toxic because of the presence in the title of the world Israel. I wrote all sorts of book in my life. I launched many scandals in my life, really, in my country and in America when you were not born. Long, long time ago. This time, it is the fact that the word Israel is on the front page, which made shelf awareness, this obscure outlet, maybe important, I don't know, a shiver, think that it could be an offence and an embarrassment for their readers, come on. It is coward. It is stupid. It is infamous and it antisemitic. And we have to say it. And we have I can tell you, there are so many Americans who believe that. What I'm just telling you and what Wall Street Journal and Free Press said, I received so many testimonies of friendship and sympathy. Their action of censorship was even from their point of view counterproductive, I think. Yes. I hate to say that, honestly, I hate to say that I don't need that. But they could not have done as much publicity to this book than by doing what they just did. So they are just morons and antisemitic morons. And it is antisemitism, period. What can I say? To say that the world, Israel, is an embarrassment? Come on. Either way to be anti Semit today. Today's episode is sponsored by Quince.

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[17:26]Zibby Owens: How do you think we can engage all of the people who you're saying? They they wrote you notes. They write me notes. They say, how can I help? Whatever. They're allies, the non Jewish allies, who I think are so important and under used and not speaking up enough. How can we engage all of the other people who see this injustice for what it is but don't necessarily feel comfortable sticking up for us or saying things publicly? How can we engage everybody else to, like, to to call it what it is? Why do we have to be the only ones speaking out?

[18:03]Bernard-Henri Lévy: They they have to understand that, and I think they understand that it is not about us. Honestly, I can survive if Israel alone is banned by an outlet in America. I can survive. But today it's me. Tomorrow it will be others. Tomorrow it will be because there will be another world on the cover of another book. It's a law in history. The Jews are on the first line. When the Jews fall, then you have second line, third line. A lot of other people will fall after them. So they have to know that we are on the front of the barricade of a world of liberty or freedoms, which is their world. If we accept this breach in the First Amendment, the right to say Israel on the cover of a book, if we accept that this right is breached, is broken, if we accept that, it opens to anything. And I'm sure that there is in your country a lot of Catholics, a lot of Christians, a lot of people who believe or not believe who understand very well that it is the very core of humanity, is hurt when somebody hits a Jew. I'm not hit. Okay, it's just a book, but they understand that, that when the Jews are beaten, at the end of the day, it is the humanity. It is the the very mankind, which is hurt in the depth of its core. They

[19:58]Zibby Owens: know that. And when they don't know, not bad to to repeat it and to make it known. Do we want everybody to be posting on like, what are there any steps? I wanna give people steps of things they can do. I because I feel like for me, as we were talking about, like, I took a step. Right? I got all these authors together. I wrote this book. That's, like, one thing I could do. It was a big thing, but whatever. What can people You already did a good job. Already did did a good job. Thank you. Thank you. But what else are there simple things people can do? Should they just share posts to stories? Should they, like, What talk to can people do who wanna help who are Jewish or non Jewish? Because I feel like sometimes people don't know what to do, but they wanna be good people. They know they should be helping because it's the right thing to do, but they just don't know what to do.

[20:51]Bernard-Henri Lévy: Not to remain alone, first of all. Alone, we can share posts. We can go on your Twitter account, on your Instagram account. On mine, I have also the same accounts on these supposed social networks. Twitter, Instagram. They can go on our threads. But people can also try to gather. And for example, I'm going to be in The States now on some campuses. I'm going to make a campus tour, As you know, tomorrow from coast to coast, from Los Angeles to the Ivy League universities. I'm going to speak there and to speak with all my strength, my pride, my hope, my wisdom. So people can come and we can discuss and we can share the same space of words and of speaking. This can be done. And when people gather, when they don't feel alone or less alone, they feel strong. They feel strong. And there are in your country about Israel, about being a Jew, about the fact that when you hit a Jew, you hit humanity. There is a lot of people. Believe me, I know your country. I toured a few weeks ago. Already I will tour again. Saw people. Not Jews necessarily, but they know that. And they know that Israel is fighting for freedom. And they know that victory of Israel would be the victory of The US and of the free world. And they know that if Israel accepted to stop, to cease fire, to make a compromise with Hamas or with Ebola. They know that it will be a disaster for our values and for our interests. American people, the wise Americans and the wise French know that it is a matter of value, matter of creed and a matter of interest, national interest and economic interest for all of us to help little Israel to win. It's a very little country fighting a very big war for a big lot of people who will be the ultimate beneficiaries of the victory of Israel. So this has to be said on and on and on. And that's what I do in my book. This is what I will say, what I will do to say that in this campus tour in Harvard and in Michigan

[23:54]Zibby Owens: and in Ohio and so on. That's amazing. Do you ever feel fear? Fear. Do you ever get scared about speaking up about You know,

[24:05]Bernard-Henri Lévy: I told you briefly at the start of this conversation, in one of my life, in one of my lives, I am a reporter. I did a lot of war report, Good or bad, I don't know. But I did a lot for big newspapers. Okay? I was in Pakistan. I was in Afghanistan during the war. I was in Mosul filming the liberation of the city. I spent the last two years and a half in Ukraine, most of my time filming on frontline in the trenches with the brave Ukrainian fighters fighting the war. Again, another frontline, but same battle against Putin. So I was reasonably afraid when I covered all these wars, but not so much. So I'm not very afraid to defend, honestly, to defend the book. I lived so many things which could have made me scared that I cannot say that I'm scared by anything coming from Mr. Shelf awareness or from I don't know what. No. No. No. Not very scared.

[25:21]Zibby Owens: Do you feel hope? Do you feel hopeful? Do you feel like things are going to right themselves or not? Yes. Yes. Because I think that Israel

[25:31]Bernard-Henri Lévy: will win on most of the fronts where Israel is engaged and alas, this is the key. I hate to speak like that because I'm an intellectual. I would love that the ideas have by themselves the power to impose themselves. But sometimes it's not enough. An idea has not enough strength, inner strength to impose itself. So in this case, against Hezbollah, against Hamas, against Iran, against Houthi, against all these bad people, it's necessary to have a military duty. Israel will have it, I'm sure. And it will not be it is not easy. It has a high cost in terms of Israeli lives and in terms also of civilian life. But Israel will win. And then what will happen? It will happen the same as when we, France and America won against ISIS in Mosul. It will happen as what happened in 2001 when the Western America won against Al Qaeda in Afghanistan. Al Qaeda, ISIS and tomorrow, Ezbollah will lose their magnets, will lose their strength of attraction. Of course, there will be remnants, but they will lose their aura. They will lose their power to attract. People say you cannot fight an ID. And when you Islamism is an ID, you cannot kill an ID. And if you kill one terrorist, you will have 10 more. Not true. In 2001, when American jets and fighters destroyed the military apparatus of Al Qaeda, it really broke Al Qaeda. Not completely, but it broke. America broke the power of attraction of Al Qaeda. In 2016, we did the same with ISIS. We destroyed in Mosul and in Raqqa, the state which they had. And again, it lowered considerably the level of power of ISIS. And now it will be the same for Ebola, for Hamas and I think for Iran. And for this, I am hopeful. And there are a lot of people in the world who secretly, in all parts of the world, including in the Middle East, who hope for, who pray for the victory of Israel. They don't dare to say and they don't dare to act. They let Israel act, but in the depth of their of their heart, they hope for the victory of Israel.

[28:21]Zibby Owens: Amazing. Thank you so much. This has been amazing. Thank you for being such a leader of all of us, and I hope you feel through the wind at your sails that we are all just hoping to keep you up in the air, lifting you up, keep talking, keep speaking out, keep doing everything you're doing, and best of luck with the book. Thank you very much. Okay. Thank you. Thank Thank you. Thanks for listening to moms don't have time to read books. If you love it, please leave a review and follow us on social at Zippy Owens and at Zippy Readers.