Victoria Jackson, WE ALL WORRY, NOW WHAT?
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[0:42]Victoria Jackson is the author of We All Worry, Now What.
[0:46]I met her at a book party at Amy Griffin's house, which was wonderful and I was like, you have to come on my podcast.
[0:52]Victoria Jackson is the cosmetics entrepreneur, medical research, trailblazer, national women's hall of fame, inductee, and mother.
[0:59]She founded the global powerhouse brand, Victoria Jackson Cosmetics, becoming the first woman to generate more than a billion dollars in revenue from selling cosmetics on television.
[1:09]In 2008, when her then 14-year-old daughter, Ali, was diagnosed with a rare and potentially fatal autoimmune disorder, neural myelitis, optica, and M.O., Victoria shifted her focus from mascara to medicine.
[1:23]Along with her husband Bill Guthie, she established the Guthie Jackson Charitable Foundation, which has funded therapeutic research and treatments and is on a mission to find a cure for NMO and other autoimmune diseases, both rare and common.
[1:36]Victoria has written four books, including the Power of Rare, a blueprint for a medical revolution, and her most recent book, We All Worry, Now What.
[1:44]She also co-founded and launched No Makeup Makeup with Kim Wildman in July 2024, a brand that pays homage to her beauty pioneering roots and is poised to become a major player in the booming beauty world.
[1:56]She is also a co-founder of Godmothers, bookstore in Montecito, California, where we will be hosting our zippy retreat in February of 2025.
[2:07]So please come to that retreat, come meet her, stop by Godmothers, and see all the amazing things that they have in store at that indie bookstore.
[2:16]Welcome, Victoria. Thank you so much for coming on Moms. Don't have time to read books to discuss. We all worry. Now what?
[2:23]I have to be here Zippy. How are you? Are you wondering about anything today? Oh, I'm always worried about everything.
[2:30]I actually posted about your book this morning and I was like, it's so ironic because I was like up in the middle of the night worrying and then I like had to finish the last little bit of your book and I was like, oh my gosh, like I'm worrying about a book about worrying.
[2:42]It's like, it's just close to show. I mean, you know, when our mind just gets in that loop of some kind of worry and it's getting out of it.
[2:52]But yeah, it's it's something that I think everybody talks about the stress, the anxiety.
[2:57]It's something that I've always dealt with the panic disorder, but to me worries where it all begins and it's, you know, what we water that turns into the stress and anxiety in the panic.
[3:08]So I feel like we're very timely book right now, given all that's going on in the world. 100%. Yeah, you had some great quote in there about watering the trees instead of the weeds. Like what would you rather water?
[3:19]Yeah, that was great.
[3:21]Well, and I got to I got to give credit to Jay Shetty on that one.
[3:24]Okay, I'm credit words too because honestly listening to his podcast and he said, you can water seeds or you can water weeds.
[3:32]Yeah, and I thought, well, you know, it's kind of that feed the lion feed the lamb. It all sort of goes back to what we decide to, you know, put our energy toward.
[3:42]And it was just another way of thinking about that. And I was the book is really about tips that I try to use as a, you know, world class black belt warrior and how I've had to become a little bit more of that warrior.
[3:57]I love that. And I think it's it's so much more authentic to hear your story and then tell you tell us like actually this works like this is how I'm getting through life.
[4:09]And this is what works for me. Like it's not wanted like a science back to full proof method to do it. It's just like you know what you guys like here is my story.
[4:18]Here's my disposition. Here is how it helps and I want to share that with you. It's like a kindness that you give us.
[4:25]Yeah, I really wanted to exactly. I wanted to give you real life of this is what I do is I'm really and I'm going through it right now. It's funny, you know, this is the first book.
[4:35]I've done five books all very different and yet very specific to what I was working on at the time.
[4:41]And this is the first one where I read it myself. And there's something about, you know, I'm sure you talked to so many authors that be.
[4:49]But the fact that at the end that I read it and it really like was wow, I really need to.
[4:56]This was a book I really needed to write and this is a book that I'll constantly need to revisit, you know, and listen to my own words.
[5:05]I'm still, you know, you know, as I said, it's not like, oh, I wrote the book. I'm cured. I don't worry. I got this all dialed and figured out, you know, it's it's an ongoing process.
[5:16]Yes, and we're always always working on it because the mind our minds just go in this one direction and it's not it's like as soon as you take the.
[5:26]It's almost like the bumpers and a bowling alley. Like as soon as you take them out, it's going to like go back in the gutter. You know, you got to make sure they have air in there so that they keep protecting the bad analogy.
[5:36]No, but it's true. Like you have to go back and you know, it is the basics. Some of it is just the basics of how we talk to ourselves and, you know, when I my mantra in the book where I'm saying if it's not happening now.
[5:52]You know, so keeping myself in the in the present moment. And I'm all about there are so I'm sure you talked to so many people. There's, you know, there's so many little bits and bobs and things people say that.
[6:03]I always think we sort of have to just knit together whatever works for us. You know, I feel that with, you know, my cosmetic company and offering women, you know, what I considered the best foundation in the world.
[6:16]But yet if something else works for them, you know, I just really want to help empower people and, you know, find their way through some some difficult times that we live in right now.
[6:27]Well, that definitely comes through and I love, by the way, that you put the little coupon for your cosmetics in the back because now I'm like, oh, I'm well, I'm totally going to do that later when I have time.
[6:37]I doggyered so many places, but with different advice and parts of your life, of course, that I want to discuss about, but some of the tricks and tips that you use like saying to yourself, you know, it's just one flight, I think like getting yourself into that mindset, like not catastrophizing everything.
[6:56]You're not getting triggered as much. Oh, yeah, it was Jay Shetty. Sorry, I just saw that passage there. You were saying, as you were find your technique, you you wanted to share it with other women.
[7:06]You said this in relation to learning to apply makeup and how you became a teacher of that and your whole experience at UCLA and maybe I should back up for two seconds for people who don't know about your cosmetics empire.
[7:19]But maybe back up and say how you started that and became sort of a teacher and how that those connections and all of it led to something far bigger.
[7:28]Yeah, definitely. Let's let's call that the, you know, I look at my life in a couple of different parts at this point. There's, you know, the mascara.
[7:37]The time I was in medicine, you know, as I can say, mascara to medicine. But in the mascara part of my life, the cosmetics, I was really Hollywood makeup artist who, you know, started with not a lot of the Hollywood talent or the, you know, innate talent, but perfected that.
[7:57]13 years did all, you know, over 100 200 album covers, you know, all the people magazine covers you name and I was doing it for 13 years working with a lot of celebrities and it was just, I never found a foundation, a base makeup that I liked and I decided that I was going to create one at the time because this is going back quite a ways, you know, as I think about it as I'm getting ready to turn 70 next year.
[8:24]And I decided to create a foundation that I started by mixing together a lot of different ingredients not knowing what I was doing at the time, but I knew what shades I wanted and created a line of makeup.
[8:50]That went along really and co existed with my philosophy, which was no makeup makeup, which still is today, like looking your best will out looking like you're overly done and so I created light medium tan mahogany and dark two shades and every compact along with a color coordinated kit so people would pick their foundation shade and then peach pink or red.
[9:18]Color coordinated kits where I basically put all the lip colors, the eye colors cheeks, everything together it was all the guesswork was taken out and what now our younger generation thinks of makeup tutorials for me was, you know, a DVD that you put into your little VCR of a two to three hours of me teaching you how to do your makeup.
[9:45]And it was a huge hit. I went on television. I was the first person to sell color cosmetics. I went on TV and just it was a great success and did 13 another like 13 years of it.
[10:00]commercial with different celebrities. I've since created about 600 products. My company did
[10:07]about a billion dollars in sales. And when on QVC for 10 years and in that time period I decided
[10:15]I wanted to sort of, you know, demystify the whole like, oh, the Hollywood makeup artist,
[10:20]only we know the secrets. And I just thought, oh my gosh, if I can do this, you can do this,
[10:25]which has always been my philosophy, you know, I come from low self esteem. So it was like,
[10:29]oh my gosh, I'm doing this. You can do this here's how. And so that's the teaching at UCLA,
[10:36]where I did that for about 10 years with every quarter, 50 students and met a group of guys that
[10:44]were at the time selling through television. And that's how my first infomercials were launched. So
[10:49]all that being said, I am very true to my no makeup, makeup philosophy, which we talk about because
[10:55]I've kind of come full circle and just relaunched my makeup. But basically during that time and
[11:03]having a few children and living life as we do, I remarried. I was married and I had a son and then I
[11:10]remarried and had two more children. My daughter was diagnosed with a rare disease and given
[11:16]four years to live. And that's where I say I go from mascara to medicine. My life in a moment
[11:23]as when those things occur, just changed in an instant. And I was like,
[11:28]a close the book on mascara, open the book on medicine and learn everything there is to know
[11:34]about this condition, autoimmune disease and dedicate my life to that and change the narrative
[11:42]for my daughter, which I've been able to do. I mean, it's not, you know, we're not out of the
[11:46]clear, out of the clear, but she's living a full, beautiful life and her story is hers to tell.
[11:52]But it was just, you know, as I said, it's taken me down the last 15 years of a whole other life.
[11:58]And certainly reinforced what this book is all about is worry and how somebody who was,
[12:05]as I say, born early to be a warrior, all of a sudden was faced with, you know, more worry that,
[12:12]you know, anybody would want to have in a lifetime. I was dealing with every day.
[12:16]Wow. Your story is so inspirational. What you achieved and you didn't graduate from high school
[12:23]and we know why when we read the book and we can discuss. But how you just created, you just
[12:28]made it out of nothing. And one thing I found really interesting is the correlation between
[12:35]the sort of fearlessness on the one hand and then this worry nonstop on the other.
[12:41]Because I feel like I can kind of relate to that. I worry about everything so much. I'm like
[12:45]constantly changing plans and worrying about this and that. But then when I try to do something,
[12:49]I'm like, oh, totally. Like, you know, and I think it's like you explained it in a way that I had
[12:54]never heard before and that I felt was incredibly interesting. Can you go into that a little more?
[12:59]Yeah. I think there's so much because people always think, God, but you've done so much and you,
[13:04]you know, so there's the outward facing, you know, Victoria that just, no, I got this and we're
[13:10]going here and we're doing it. And then there's, you know, the, the one that, you know, has to lay
[13:14]down on the bathroom floor or couldn't get, you know, on the plane or, you know, when it's
[13:19]how these two kind of, and they're both forces, truly forces that coexist and, you know, how I
[13:26]just sort of manage my way through it because things are always going to be presented to us
[13:32]in life that so the book really is or the techniques that I have to do when I start becoming
[13:38]overwhelmed again yet at the same time having to get, you know, excuse my language, but all
[13:44]this shit done that I've got to do or the people that are, you know, relying on me or
[13:49]the expectations that I have of myself to, you know, to accomplish the things I want to do.
[13:55]And I'm so, you know, I should have addressed your experience with your daughter and the medicine
[14:02]and finding out the diagnosis and how shocked you were and going upstairs and weeping uncontrollably
[14:08]and then finding a way like you found three medicines that are helping your daughter so much and
[14:16]helping so many people that's incredibly amazing and also so upsetting that you had to go through
[14:23]it but still just like, yeah, just wow. Well, it's also shows when you really, you know, and at
[14:30]the time, you know, there was really no information around this condition at the time they told me
[14:35]maybe 10,000 people in the world have it. Now there's millions and millions of people because
[14:41]I've really shined a light on something that was misdiagnosed so frequently as MS or,
[14:46]you know, as you start getting into something and there was really no conversation.
[14:51]So I'm somebody who has to picture things in my head. So I manifested
[14:56]what would it look like to get all these people, you know, I had to get to their brain trust
[15:02]right through this shared sense of a humanity, like help me. How do I get these people together?
[15:09]You know, from a mother's desperation but at the same time have to be very organized
[15:15]while she's going through attacks while, you know, the bad things are happening.
[15:18]While the fear is like right there and has a choke hold on me and yet keep moving forward
[15:24]and finding the balance of letting people see that but at the same time knowing that I've
[15:29]going to have to really build this, you know, this foundation, a different kind of foundation
[15:36]that is going to, you know, help me, you know, save what they're telling me can happen to my daughter.
[15:42]So it was working on just so many different levels and the last book which is really I would
[15:49]recommend saving each other was the first book that I wrote about this and it's my daughter
[15:55]daughter and I wrote it together and I never really knew what she was going through.
[16:00]We said first she didn't want to know what she had and it's a really powerful book because
[16:06]our pages were put together at the end and I until the book was finished, I really didn't
[16:11]know the whole story from her part. So it's a really powerful book to read and then
[16:16]the one that was right before this book, the power of rare, a blueprint for medical revolution
[16:22]is really the blueprint of how I went step by step in working to find a cure and how to get
[16:28]these drugs made and I would recommend it for so many people reach out to me that, you know,
[16:32]have other foundations there on their missions. This was how I went about it and how I was able to
[16:39]bridge the gap between like, you know, patients and pharma and how to get things done so I think
[16:46]that would also be really, really helpful. Amazing. You shared a lot about your upbringing starting
[16:54]with, as you said, being born early and maybe the feeling your claustrophobia may have originated
[16:59]in the incubator for all that time which sounded terrible and that your mom was only 21. I mean,
[17:03]I can't even imagine today this is happening. But then you went through so much with your father
[17:10]taking off and you're adapted by your stepfather and then you had this horrific attack which
[17:16]you wrote about so beautifully and so just here's here's what happened and you didn't like
[17:23]dance around it. You're just like, look, here's the thing and this is this pillowcase rapist just
[17:29]came into my house and you know, reading it. You're just like, no, I can't believe this half to her
[17:36]and that you were stabbed and like, yeah, you know, this is the kind of story where you're like,
[17:41]well, how could this person ever get over this? And then, but you know, you're reading the book
[17:45]so that you did get over it in some way. What was it like to write about that and share it now so
[17:51]publicly? Yeah, I mean, I can't tell you that it was my favorite thing, you know, having to go back
[17:57]and then to that, that would be sort of lying. But you know what I wanted to do it to show,
[18:02]you know, the pillowcase rapist was, you know, he was notorious in the 70s here in California and,
[18:10]you know, it was my biggest fear was always thinking someone was going to get me and then,
[18:14]you know, somebody did get me. I think the point of putting that in there was
[18:20]not in any way to sensationalize it because it obviously is a very painful part, you know, in my
[18:26]life and knowing that my kids who knew about it, but we're going to potentially read about it,
[18:30]although these are my kids. I don't know that the fact that anything that I've written,
[18:34]but you know, just that what you can go through and kind of, I guess it almost set me up as
[18:41]yes, I truly am a legit warrior. I've had a lot of stuff happen and a lot of things that
[18:48]I've had to, you know, navigate and get through. And I think all of those things were in that
[18:55]situation. It taught me the difference between where I write in the book about zooming out
[19:01]in perspective as a difference from say what I did at the time, which was
[19:06]disassociate from what was happening to my body while, you know, a horrible act was taking place.
[19:13]So it was kind of really there for a frame of reference to, again, how to navigate things and
[19:20]you kind of see, I look at things almost as I'm looking at these pictures and manifesting almost
[19:27]like a movie, you know, as you go further into the book and you see that I also down the road
[19:32]while I was trying to work on saving my daughter. I also was diagnosed with cancer. I saw
[19:37]like, oh no, the mom can't die while she's saving the daughter, you know, and it was in a way,
[19:45]because of the way I was able to frame it in my mind and I was fortunate enough to catch it early,
[19:50]I could say to the doctors like, I'm here for a reason. I've got a purpose, you know,
[19:54]there's meaning to my life, you know, like cure me, but I've got things to do. And
[20:00]I think that that's sort of really helped me get through that experience.
[20:03]So I just wanted to share all these things not to be fixed to me or a victim,
[20:09]but kind of like, okay, what do you do?
[20:11]You just, you go to this next place.
[20:13]You do the next thing.
[20:14]You know, it's just like always doing the next thing because, you know,
[20:19]if you do nothing, you know what that looks like.
[20:22]Oh my gosh, I you called it like you're two percent rule,
[20:24]like you are always in this fucking tear off things for happening.
[20:28]And you had sort of a sense of, you had a little sense of humor about it at one point.
[20:32]You know, like how can, how can this even be?
[20:35]You know, you just have to roll with it a little.
[20:37]The dissociated part, I found so interesting that we have the ability to do that,
[20:42]that you can actually, I mean, it feels like it should be out of ghost or something
[20:46]like that that you can.
[20:47]And I know it's common or it's like, but still it's, it's really remarkable
[20:51]that our souls can kind of leave our bodies and look down on everything going on
[20:55]as a self-protective mechanism.
[20:58]And the fact that I was able to sort of take the disassociation, which is very different,
[21:03]but yet sort of turn it into a more grounded version of zooming out.
[21:08]Yeah, zooming out.
[21:10]You still need, you know, perspective.
[21:12]So I always have to sort of, and it's another way of centering yourself.
[21:17]Putting yourself back in the moment and centering yourself to be able to think about,
[21:23]to make that plan for what your next step is, because if you're so in it and you're so in the
[21:28]worry and it's so paralyzing, you, you can't really sort of get that, you know, zooming out,
[21:35]top of the trees, kind of looking down vision that you need to help get you to the next place.
[21:41]In a way though, it's almost like, well, I might as well worry because bad things are happening.
[21:46]You're like, yeah, you're trying to do that.
[21:49]And that, that is true.
[21:50]But where's that going to go?
[21:52]You know, it just sort of, and there might be a time where you sort of, you need to do that for a
[21:56]minute, you know, and you need to cry or, you know, just isolate yourself or do whatever you do,
[22:03]that sort of, you know, take care of yourself.
[22:05]But you got to, you got to change the conversation.
[22:09]At least that's, that's what I, you know, some people might go, oh, you can't allow yourself to do that.
[22:13]I mean, we're human.
[22:15]You're going to feel what you're going to feel.
[22:16]It's just, I have this ability and want to encourage that in people too.
[22:22]Like, others, I say, I think it was one of my first books I said, you know, perseverance is
[22:28]where the gods dwell.
[22:29]It's like, you have to persevere.
[22:31]You have to sort of, you know, find that way.
[22:34]Whether it's through, you know, I talk about feathering your nest, curating your friend group.
[22:40]Think of the people that can help pull you out that are going to not, you know,
[22:46]if you're stuck in that place where you, you can't move, where you're just ruminating,
[22:51]how to stop that spiral.
[22:53]I love that section on community and how you can find community in lots of different places
[22:57]and different ways and how important it really is.
[23:00]Yeah, yeah, yeah, even now, doing that with, you know, you've kind of set the example
[23:07]on the way of, you know, an amazing bookstore opening Godmothers was a way for me as well.
[23:14]I, you know, I have Jennifer, my partner, obviously.
[23:17]But for me, it was about I'm not an expert in that field.
[23:20]I wouldn't even pretend to know, you know, a quarter of what you know about the book business
[23:26]and all of that.
[23:26]But the fact of reconnecting with people, you know, like community, doing things
[23:32]that are always exposing me and to new things being a curious person.
[23:37]And I think that has helped me in even building this medical foundation and in my makeup.
[23:44]So I get, I get to just bounce around now between, you know, mascara, back to the foundation,
[23:50]the medicine, books, community, you know, and just building that sort of life for myself
[23:57]that will help me with what has been my obsession with worry and fear.
[24:03]Wow.
[24:04]Are you, wait, tell me more about the bookstore and how did you end up,
[24:07]how did you and Jennifer get together and just tell me more?
[24:11]I know we talked as you were debating doing it.
[24:13]Yeah, no, Jennifer, no, we had, we had dinner together.
[24:16]We've recently probably like within the last three to four years, we've known each other.
[24:21]So it wasn't like lifelong, you know, but we just connected right away.
[24:25]We were having dinner at a friend's house and then, you know, we just started like go to lunch
[24:30]and over one of our lunches was really talking about, I've been, I've lived between, you know,
[24:36]LA and up there in Carpentaria for I've been there 32 years and just talking about, you know,
[24:44]what were both excited about and just talked about, Jennifer had talked about, you know,
[24:50]we've talked about what would we do next, you know, what would we do, what would be fun and
[24:54]Jennifer brought up like, you know, talking about a bookstore and that would be cool and then we,
[24:59]you know, you kind of go to, well, if we were going to open a bookstore, where would it be?
[25:03]And there was always a building that I had my eye on that was in Summerland, this really cool
[25:07]building and, and then, you know, Godmothers, the name came up, we were lucky to get that name
[25:14]from Oprah because we had Jennifer myself in Oprah had thrown a gathering for a friend of ours
[25:20]and he referred to us as, you know, his very Godmothers. So it all just started to come,
[25:26]you know, little bits and bobs and pieces of coming together and then we found, you know,
[25:31]the building was able to secure the building and there you go. I mean, it's just, and it's been
[25:38]incredible ever since we opened. So I'm, I'm learning about that, you know, every day there's
[25:44]more and more to deal with and learn about and I hope we doing some things together.
[25:48]Yes, I'm excited. I think we'll do doing something in February. We should be fun. Yeah, very
[25:54]excited. I can't wait. Well, it's open. Godmothers is open with such a splash and it's such a great
[26:01]addition to sort of the world. It's a, this new model I feel like of gathering like bookstores is
[26:08]gathering spaces. Of course, we sell books, but that's almost not the point. I mean, it's part
[26:12]of the point, but great. You couldn't have one without the other. Yeah, I think people, it just shows,
[26:17]and you know, this because you've been doing it a long time, like people are hungry for community,
[26:21]right? And it goes back to, to worry, you know, because people are worried, you know, we're in
[26:27]a world where it's a little, you know, the election coming up. We don't know what's going to happen,
[26:32]you know, things have been a little destabilized for a while now. So, you know, it's, it's great
[26:38]when you can come together with community and start grounding yourself. And, and that's why,
[26:44]you know, we all worry now what, the now what is like, okay, how do we, how do we just reconnect
[26:50]with ourselves and the people around us to, to not just be so much and worry, but more being,
[26:56]be in action, be in compassion and kindness for others and for ourselves. That that's really
[27:03]at the end of the day, the guiding principle that I've lived my life by, I've really
[27:09]think a lot about other people. I'm working on thinking a little bit more about myself as well
[27:15]because I haven't always done that. And I'm wondering where I need to sort of think about
[27:21]what I want as well. But I will, I want to continue to just, you know, I have found the meaning in
[27:28]the purpose of my life and I'm committed to finding this cure that I know is affecting a lot of
[27:36]people and, and my daughter. So that will ultimately be my life's mission and what, and I'll
[27:43]look at to make some, some beautiful foundation that you'll learn about. To be that, you know, when
[27:47]you go online later, I will calm people go. It's probably the best foundation. We did just win Oprah
[27:55]2024 best foundation. So I'll do a lot of fun and interesting things along the way and, and try
[28:02]not to worry so much. It's really all we can do in life, right? We just like try to get through,
[28:08]we try to be helpful, try to make meaning. And try to have joy, right? And I have joy, yes.
[28:13]I switched from the happy. I think I bought every book on happiness in the title. And I was like,
[28:21]man, I would almost feel bad because I'm like, well, I'm still don't feel happy. But I want to
[28:25]go to joy. I'm just going to go to joy and, you know, we're coming up to holidays. We'll hopefully
[28:31]we'll be past the election. Let's, let's all try to find a little bit of joy and things that
[28:36]make us smile. I love that. I would be good. I love that. Well, this is a great book for the holiday
[28:44]time where worry is rampant. So it's, it's perfect to have out. And it's just, it's a real gift. And
[28:52]I, again, I just love how much you shared about yourself and all the memory parts of it that are
[28:57]interspersed because, you know, I, I took it all to heart like advice from a friend, you know,
[29:02]so thank you. Well, thank you. That's what I would hope the takeaway would be. So that makes me feel
[29:09]good. Oh, good. Great. Well, I'm looking forward to seeing you in February of not sooner. And
[29:15]thank you so much for coming on. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks for listening to mom,
[29:22]don't have time to read books. If you love it, please leave a review and follow us on social
[29:27]at Civi Owens and at Civi readers.