Julie Silverstein and Tami Schlossberg Pruwer, CHUTZPAH GIRLS

[1:38]Zibby Owens: Welcome to moms don't have time to read books hosted by me, Zibby Owens. It's an award winning podcast with over 1,900 episodes, all featuring authors of books you love and those you have yet to discover. Listen daily five times a week. Then go to zippymedia.com and learn more about what the LA Times called the Zippyverse. Zippy Media includes Zippy's Bookshop, an independent bookstore in Santa Monica, Zippy Books Publishing, Zippy Retreats, Zippy's Book Club, and more. Go check it out at zippymedia.com, and follow me on Instagram at Zippy Owens. It'll take you where you need to go. Thanks for listening. Welcome. Thank you so much for coming on today to discuss Chutzpah Girls, a 100 tales of daring Jewish women. Julie, Tammy, welcome. Hi, Zafiq. Hi, Zafiq. Thank for having us. We're so excited. Oh, I'm excited to talk to you about it. As you know, we were having a meeting, and I was like, why is this meeting not a podcast? So, anyway, now here we are at our next meeting slash podcast to to dive even deeper. Okay. Tell everybody what Chutzpah Girls is about and also the backstory, and maybe describe it a little because I am holding this, like, ridiculously beautiful book with gorgeous illustrations and gold foil on the cover, and it's it's like a work of art in addition to just a book. So Thank you. I'll let you take it away. So, Tzitzbah Girls is a book about a 100 tales of daring Jewish women throughout history. So all the way back to the Bible to today.

[3:11]Julie Silverstein: And every story zooms into a pivotal moment in the woman's life. These are not biographical entries. They really zoom into like a pivotal moment where she faces a challenge and she decides to step up and act and use her chutzpah to overcome the challenge. And that is how she leaves her legacy. And every portrait is also every story is also supplemented by a portrait. We worked with 12 female Jewish artists around the world to create the visuals to really bring the stories to life for a generation that appreciates aesthetics and kind of needs that additional bold color to story. And I think, you know, initially, this started a few years ago when we really felt that there were so many untold stories of Jewish women that we wanted to tell to rectify historical bias that exists everywhere, but also within the Jewish world. One of the women in the book, Emmy Neuther, she's a famous mathematician. She was instrumental in helping Einstein develop his theory of relativity. And everybody has heard of Einstein. Not many people have heard of Emmy Neuther. So that is kind of how it started out. But of course, you know, since October 7, this has taken on a completely different scope. Before the book actually went to print and before October 7, Julie and I were discussing. And while we knew that antisemitism was always alive throughout history, we kind of at some point felt that it was shocking how every single woman in the book throughout history had experienced discrimination as a woman and as a Jew. And so we were talking and we said, why don't we tone down the antisemitism? You know, maybe it's not so relevant nowadays. Let's just focus on the discrimination against women. And then October 7 happened, and we just felt like this is the book that people need right now to allow us to look at our history through the lens of strength and determination and chutzpah and not only trauma and tragedy, to recognize that we can all take action, you know, just the way you did with your book. There are so many women in the book who use the power of the pen, and maybe we'll discuss a few to really speak up and make a difference. And so we really feel that this is such an important contribution at this point in time to have these conversations with our children, not just about the challenges that we're facing as a people, but also about the strength that we have in our heritage, particularly the feminine strength that we can learn so much from. Amazing. Who was the first thing you were the people you were most excited to dive into and profile? Oh, wow. Well, you know, I think in terms specifically in relation to you before the Zibby verse existed, Jewish women were so instrumental in establishing and disseminating Jewish books throughout history. I mean, we're known as the people of the book, but I don't think many people realize that Jewish women were the one who took charge. And right after the Gutenberg invented the printing press, Jewish women in the Middle Ages were the one who established printing presses, and they were the gatekeepers of the Jewish books that were going to be printed and disseminated. And so many of the books that actually make up the Jewish canon today were determined by Jewish women, which, you know, we thought was remarkable and we never realized before starting this book.

[6:17]Zibby Owens: I'm just a follower, basically.

[6:20]Tami Schlossberg Pruwer: Speaking of printing, you know, you mentioned Zippy so kindly, you know, that the book it's a beautiful book. And, you know, we made an effort to create a book that would elevate and speak to the dignity of Jewish women. There is an idea that Jewish women have something in Hebrew called makhut, that they have a certain royal character to them, that we're all like walking queens, in a way, in this world. And so we wanted that to be reflected in the book. So we included gold on the cover, and we decided to create a symbol for the book, which would be a crown, that each of these women, in the course of their lives, were, you know, they walked with a certain power, with a certain strength, with a certain dignity, with a certain grace. So courage is not Chutzpah is not just brashness. Chutzpah comes with it a certain mahut, a certain level of dignity and strength that is characteristic only of Jewish women. I

[7:18]Zibby Owens: was surprised by the breadth of professions. I mean, I shouldn't have been surprised. I don't know why I was surprised. But there are women who do, like, every type of job imaginable in this book. Here, I'll just take a few at random because they're all okay. Judges, chess champions, Torah teacher, Paralympic champion, humanitarian, matriarch, artist musician, fashion designer, kibbutz defender, writer, Yiddish diarist, mathematician, campaigner, ballerina, global emissary, running champion, tennis champion. That was the one that I was particularly surprised about. Like, how did I not know more about Angela Buxton? Like, who is she? Like, what did I don't know. Why do I not know about her? Anyway, I knew about I knew about Althea,

[8:08]Julie Silverstein: who she's pictured with here, Althea Gibson, but And how together they overcome discrimination, you know, as Jews and as Black women. I know it's and and, you know, we're always talking about the fact that Jews are so diverse. And externally, we're not perceived as being so diverse. But I think also internally, there's so much that we can learn about our own heritage and history and all of the different streams within Judaism. And like you said, professionally as well. I mean, who knew there were Jewish cowboys in Brazil, you know? Right. Has Jewish origins or that Switzerland had a Jewish head of state, like all of these facts that we've uncovered as well along and

[8:42]Tami Schlossberg Pruwer: the amount of facts that you get to know about yourself and your own heritage by learning these stories and by reading through them. Diversity was important to us. I mean, the women in the book come from over 33 different countries. They represent the full experience Jewish experience. They're Bukharian. They're Persian. They're Ethiopian. They're Yemenite. They're Mizrahi Sephardi Ashkenazi. And as you said, they span every professional field imaginable.

[9:06]Zibby Owens: Amazing. Can I read a little more about Angela Buxton, who is, like, my latest So she was born in 1934, and you write that in World War two, as it made its way to England, Angela was missing the treats that she loved, like cakes made of cream and butter because of blackouts and bombing? Her family had to flee. They went to South Africa, and she discovered tennis, but also discovered racism. People complained when she got together with a black girl the same age as her. And when she returned to England after the war, excelling in junior tennis, it says due to antisemitism or hate against Jewish people, the top tennis training centers rejected her. Quote, you're not going to join the club, they told her. Why am I not good enough? Angela asked. It was simply because she was a Jew. And then for this reason, she trained alone, she found it hard to find hitting partners, remembered the racism she witnessed, and became good friends with Althea. And they both struggled for acceptance, and they decided to become doubles partners, won the French Open, won Wimbledon, and stayed good friends. I mean, what a great story. Why is this not a movie? This should be a movie. But anyway.

[10:19]Julie Silverstein: Every single story in there should be a movie, we believe. And, yeah, I mean, it's so moving to ask that, you know, very often Jewish women didn't only fight for Jewish rights, but they were also fighting for discrimination in general. Having experienced it themselves as Jews, they stood up against other forms of discrimination, and I think that's reflected in many of the stories in the book.

[10:38]Tami Schlossberg Pruwer: And I think in the particular example of Angela Buxton, I mean, this is not just a relationship that sort of, you know, begins and ends with tennis, but they really develop a lifelong friendship and see each other through many hardships.

[10:52]Julie Silverstein: Wow. Another story that we love at this point in time is Eliza Davis. I don't know if you've had a chance to look at her, but, you know, she's a mom of 10, born in Jamaica, the daughter of a Jewish cantor, they moved to England. And they happened to buy Charles Dickens home. And she starts reading his books, and he's the most popular author in England at the time, and she loves him until she comes across this depiction of Jews in the book and is so offended in Oliver Twist. And she picks up a pen and she decides to write to him, you know, a stay at home mom of 10. She's not particularly educated. And she writes him a letter and she actually manages to change his mind. And he initially, he gets a bit defensive. And he says, you know, I've never really encountered Jews before. This was the portrayal that I thought was accurate. But she doesn't back off, and and the exchange of letters that we find between them is the largest exchange of letters we have outside of his immediate circle. So she really engages with her, and she sends him booklets about Jewish customs to really try and educate him. And then in the next edition, he actually rectifies the character and limits limits the amount of times that he calls him Jewish. And in the in the subsequent books, he actually introduces a Jewish character who's kind and noble. And so she really makes a difference by just using the power of her pen through respectful dialogue, which, you know, in our polarized world today is unimaginable, and she creates incredible change throughout all of the English society.

[12:10]Zibby Owens: That's such a hopeful example. Right? The power to change someone's mind, setting an example, education. Like, I really feel like, at times, that is the way forward is one on one conversations and, like, having it creep out. Right? Oh, I changed this mind, and that person will change that person's mind, and, you know, all that. But who knows? In this moment where we're all experiencing antisemitism

[12:36]Tami Schlossberg Pruwer: and hate, it's such an overwhelming scale. That lesson of Eliza Davis that, you know, letters to one person, just engaging with one person can make a difference.

[12:46]Zibby Owens: So true. And how did the two of you begin engaging with each other? Like, how did you team up for this project? When did you meet?

[12:54]Julie Silverstein: Wow. We're not a 100% sure. It really felt like there was some sort of magic or fate here involved. We both had had this vision. You know, mine kind of was sparked when my daughter was younger, and I kept getting these gifts for her when she was a baby, all these books about remarkable women throughout history who had done amazing things. And I loved reading them to her, but I really felt that I wanted to bond with her over the stories in our own heritage and maybe values that were more aligned with ours. And Juliet had a similar experience surrounding

[13:23]Tami Schlossberg Pruwer: her children's bar and mitzvah. Yeah, my kids are a bit older than Tammy's. My oldest is 17. And when my two oldest had their bar and bat mitzvahs about a year apart from each other, It was that experience that you can only have as a mother when you see two children of yours each putting an equal effort into their bar and bat mitzvahs, you know, preparing their services, preparing their Torah reading, preparing the debarahs, all the things that you do for a bar mitzvah. And my son received holy books, like a Tanakh and to fill in and see Dorset. And my daughter basically received, like, jewelry and handbags. And, you know, I think of myself as someone who comes who's, like, raising my children, a fairly liberal, progressive Jewish community of well educated individuals. And it was just this kind of subtle but expressed way that, you know, the way that we treat girls and boys even today is is is different. And I think, you know, Tammy and I both felt like this is a book that needs to exist, and we were gonna do everything in our power to will it into existence.

[14:28]Zibby Owens: Wow. And you both are in Israel now. Were you there on October 7? And can you share what that day was like for you or in the aftermath? Today's episode is sponsored by Quince. Summer always makes me rethink what I'm reaching for every day. Lighter fabrics, better materials, pieces that just feel good the moment you put them on and look effortless. That's why I keep coming back to quints. They focus on high quality essentials. Think breathable linen, soft organic cotton, washable silk, but without luxury markup. It's that rare balance where everything feels elevated but still easy. Quince has beautiful everyday pieces like 100% European linen pants, dresses, and tops with styles starting at $32. Their denim is soft and easy to wear. I wear my jean jacket all the time. And their organic cotton sweaters are perfect for layering on cool summer nights. Everything at Quince is priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands. Quince works directly with Ethical factories and cuts out the middlemen, so you're paying for quality, not brand markup. And it's not just clothing. Quince has really become a destination for elevated essentials across home, kitchen, bedding, and beyond, making it easy to bring a more premium feel into everyday life. Addition to my jean jacket, I recently got a white tank top dress with a beautiful cotton skirt that is absolutely gorgeous, and I can't wait for it to be warm enough so I can wear it every day, but it has been a cool spring. Elevate your summer wardrobe. Go to quince.com/zippy for free shipping on your order and three hundred and sixty five day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's quince.com/zippy for free shipping and three hundred and sixty five day returns. Quince.com/zibby.

[17:23]Julie Silverstein: Wow. I mean, you know, the aftermath is still ongoing. It affects just today. You know, there's a cease fire, so there shouldn't be any sirens. And actually, a ballistic missile was fired from Yemen. My kids were in school. Usually, they're at the park around that time. So I got really nervous. We just ran into shelters. And, you know, this book was created during that and throughout that. And we were our kids were in and out of schools. We were in and out of shelters. We really had to work around the time that we had with all of the anxieties happening. There are, you know, some of our illustrators were displaced from their homes and they were creating the portraits as they were couch surfing, traveling abroad because they didn't have homes. So yeah, it affected half of the team at our publisher was actually drafted into the army. So there were some delays as well. Of course it affected everyone in the country, but, you know, Isabel, you wrote really beautifully in your book, how for you this was a lifeline during this time, kind of having this project to focus on, which you knew was making a difference. And I think for us reading these stories of Jewish women throughout history who have faced similar moments in the past and have not only survived, but really thrived in the face of darkness was such an anchor. And there were so many days where we just didn't know how we were gonna make it happen. And then we would just kind of edit the story or discover another angle. And that just made it all worth it. So we felt very fortunate to have this project throughout this time to just keep us grounded and inspired. And we're very excited to be launching it into the world at this point in time as well. How about you?

[18:59]Tami Schlossberg Pruwer: Yeah, you know, like Tammy, October 7 continues to affect our day to day lives. My oldest son, who I mentioned, who had his Bar Mitzvah a few years ago, is now in high school. He goes to a school in Jerusalem called Hamel Farb, was the school of so many of the beautiful young men who are now household names, like Hirsch Goldberg Polin. We all know Rachel Goldberg Polin, Anir Shapiro Ben Zussman, these young Jewish men who are essentially household names in many Jewish homes. And they all went to my son's school. He's lost a teacher. He lost his principal about six, seven six and a half weeks ago now, the principal of the entire school, who was also the rabbi of the school. So this is, like, an ongoing story. But like, you know, Tammy said, I think that the experience of working on this book in the midst of, you know, this very dark time has given us a sense of a historical context. I mean, your book that you you know, you have put it out into the world, Zibby, about being Jewish now, I think, you know, our book is really about being Jewish then. It was It's a collection of stories of Jewish women throughout history that met moments very similar to the one that we're facing now dark moments, hopeless moments, moments where we can't see any way out. And they drew on their creativity and their courage and their strength and their chutzpah. And they went on, and we

[20:29]Julie Silverstein: are trying to do the same. Wow. And I'll just add, you know, the timeliness of it all. I think both our books, we announced presale and I think you launched you released your book on November 1, which was the same day that the international community announced a boycott on Jewish books and authors and publishers. And, you know, the response, I think, to both our books has been really deeply moving. And I think it's just a testament to the resilience of the Jewish people in face of it all. Like they want to celebrate life. They want to choose to support each other. We actually released the book on the day of violence against women and to be able to celebrate the stories of women on that day, especially Jewish women who in this past year were completely erased and abandoned by the organizations tasked with protecting them felt extremely special. And and we really feel the support and the celebration of Jews Jews worldwide coming together to share these stories. Wow. Well, tell me about a moment not involving the production of this book, which I know is a huge

[21:32]Zibby Owens: chutzpah filled act. But maybe just a small moment in your lives recently or whenever where you feel like that was a chutzpah moment for you, and maybe it was something very quiet, like something that just happened with you and a kid or I don't know, whatever, something at the grocery store. But something in your life where you're like, you know what? That did take chutzpah, and I did it.

[21:56]Julie Silverstein: The past few years have been surrounded, you know, by kind of surrounded by the book and and the chutzpah related to that. That's a great question. I'm sure there are many examples because the two of you seem like total

[22:09]Zibby Owens: warriors and creative and intelligent. And

[22:14]Tami Schlossberg Pruwer: I mean, you know, certainly, you know, the the the process of of bringing this book out into the world felt like a a massive act of chutzpah. I mean, you know, there were so many challenges that we had to overcome from, you know, obviously, October 7 and COVID. And we both had babies in the process. And, you know, I think, Zibby, you you know this better than anyone, that, you know, you don't get to go on a three months writer's retreat, you know, where, you know, all the noise of your life fades away, and you get to hear the chirping birds, and you get to, you know, ruminate on all the great ideas that you have. I mean, you know, we just had to grab time in the cracks of time against all odds to bring this book into existence, and I'm sure you had a similar experience with your book. But I will say to, you know, to outside of the context of the book itself, I mean, you know, the privilege, the magic, the honor, and the utter devastation of living in Israel every day feels like an act of chutzpah. I mean, just sometimes getting up and even, you know, getting your kids off to school or getting to work or taking the kids to going to the market and, you know, and restocking the fridge. I mean, these things that I think feel like maybe everyday things or average or mundane things that you do in other places in the world just to do those things. Even today, you know, Tammy is running back and forth to the shelter to do those things to, you know, to live your life here in Israel right now in this time feels like an act of chutzpah. Wow.

[23:47]Zibby Owens: Well, you are so inspirational, honestly. I've gone to a couple events lately where people say they are getting all of their strength from the examples of literally everyone in Israel. That, like, that everyone is so brave and, you know, as we quake in our boots for, like, no you know, just because everybody hates us, you know, you have I I woke up to those alerts today at, you know, the red dots everywhere. Like, how do you go about your day when you wake up and see that? Like, it shook me, and I'm it's not even, like, aimed at me. It but aimed at my people still, and it's you. I mean, how do you just, like, put the phone away and get on a Zoom with me? You know what I mean?

[24:32]Julie Silverstein: I know it seems hard. So I'm you know, we we we feel like the Jewish people are experiencing this on different levels all over the world. Of course, there's, you know, the physical aspect here and the military aspect, but I think that we're all in this together in Israel, and we we don't have to explain ourselves to anyone internally, whereas Jews in the diaspora have to spend their day explaining themselves and and the legitimacy of their existence to everyone else. And I think sometimes we sit here and we feel like, wow, thank God we don't to do that right now because I, how do you do that? You know, so I feel like we're all so intertwined in this and we all have a responsibility to do our parts to stand up and make this stop because never again is never again. So

[25:17]Zibby Owens: Wow. Is this book available

[25:19]Julie Silverstein: in Hebrew as well? We're working on the Hebrew translation right now, so it'll be out in a few months. And then French, Italian, and Spanish are coming up as well, so in in 2025.

[25:29]Zibby Owens: So Very exciting. Hopefully, it'll be available worldwide. Is there anything and this is way too big a question, and I'm sure there's no good answer. But is there anything that those of us outside of Israel can do to help those of you who are inside and dealing with the extra stress of the physical and the military and and all of that? I mean, is there anything that we should know or be representing differently or anything that really irritates you that people are saying who aren't there, something, you know, even well intentioned people might not get right?

[26:05]Julie Silverstein: Wow. I mean, we've just been so incredibly moved. And, you know, everyone we've spoken to with with a platform like yours who is promoting these stories right now, the stories of Israeli women, the story of Jewish women and and and Jews in general is so incredibly moving to us. I mean, I just think of my grandparents during the Holocaust finding shelter, fleeing their homes, and I don't think they had anyone with this kind of influence and platform speaking up for them. So just knowing that that exists and that we're not at that same juncture again, I think is is just incredibly moving knowing that we're not alone. So keep doing what you're doing. To us, it makes a world of a difference.

[26:44]Tami Schlossberg Pruwer: Yeah. I mean, in addition to, you know, to fighting the outside world and to fighting, you know, the hate and the bias that's clearly all around us, I think there's also an opportunity in this moment to strengthen within the Jewish world, to strengthen the fact to all the divisions. And, you know, maybe this is an opportunity to bring up another chutzpah girl, Queen Shlom Syon. I see Zibby, you're wearing Hanukkah. Like, you know, you're probably off to a Hanukkah party. I am. I am. Yes. Well, you know, we're in the Hanukkah season, as we all know, and, you know, so much attention is put on the story of the Maccabees. And there are women's stories that are also very intertwined with Hanukkah, and one that I'll mention is Queen Shompseyon. So, you know, we think that, okay, the story of the Maccabees and Hasmoneans, you know, that began and ended with Hanukkah. But, I mean, the Hasmonean Empire goes on for one hundred years and after the story of the reunification and Hanukkah, the Jewish people fall into a state of fairly deep division, even crippling division. There were different groups, the Pharisees, the Sadducees, and they battled ideologically. And it wasn't until Queen Shlom Syon comes along and she finds a way to unite the people, and the Jewish kingdom sees a never before and never seen since era of richness and strength. And so there's an opportunity now to be like Eliza Davis, to to fight those that are, you know, that are promoting negative images of our people. And there's also an opportunity to be a to heal the divisions within us.

[28:30]Zibby Owens: Beautiful. Well, congratulations on this beautiful book that everybody must pick up. Wonderful for Hanukkah, but also for so many other things. Great bat mitzvah gift. If you don't wanna give a bracelet or something or cash or whatever or in addition. So thank you both so much. Thanks for the work you're doing and, you know, the fact that you put this together in the face of everything else. I mean, you if wanted to stay in bed all day, that would be okay. Like, we would get that. But instead, you're out there producing and creating art, and I find that is the biggest antidote to anxiety. So I'm assuming you you are getting some some benefits from that as well.

[29:09]Tami Schlossberg Pruwer: Thank you, Zebi, and thank you for being the ultimate chutzpah girl, for using your platform to tell the experience of the Jewish people today, to bring so many together, so many of us together to to face what is happening now and to move on a path towards action. You're an inspiration for us, and we're so grateful for your support. Uh-oh. Well, I'm so glad we have teamed up.

[29:34]Zibby Owens: Alright. Well, thank you so much, and happy Hanukkah. You too. Enjoy the Hanukkah party. Okay. Thank you. Okay. Bye. Thank you, ladies. Thanks for listening to Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books. If you love it, please leave a review and follow us on social ZippyOwens Owens and at Zippy Readers.