Jennifer Grey, OUT OF THE CORNER: A Memoir

[2:11]Zibby Owens: This is Zibby Owens, and you're listening to Totally Booked with Zibby. Formerly, moms don't have time to read books. In my daily show, I interview today's latest best selling, buzziest, or underrated authors and story creators whose work I think is worth your time. As a bookstore owner, publisher, author, and obviously podcaster, I get a comprehensive look at everything that's coming out and spend my time curating the best books so you don't have to. Stay in the know, get insider insights, and connect with guests like I do every single day. For more information, go to zibbymedia.com, and follow me on Instagram at zibby owens. Hi, everybody. This is one of the replay bonus episodes to get you through the holiday season. Maybe you missed some. There have been over 2,000 episodes. We are going into a rebrand where we're going to be changing the name of the podcast from moms don't have time to read books to Zippy's podcast. So that is happening in the new year. In the meantime, have a listen, enjoy, and let me know what you think. Bye. Jennifer Gray is the author of Out of the A Memoir. She is best known for her iconic portrayal of Baby opposite Patrick Swayze in the beloved classic Dirty Dancing, which earned her a Golden Globe nomination for best actress. By the way, I literally saw Dirty Dancing in the theaters seven times when it came out, not to mention the bazillion times I've seen it since. Her numerous film, television, and theater credits spanned decades, including starring roles in Zoe Tropes' sailing masterpiece Wind, singing a duet alongside Madonna in Bloodhounds on Broadway, as a gorilla fighter in John Milius' Red Dawn, her Ace Award nominated taxi dancer in Peter Bogdanovich's episode of the Showtime series Fallen Angels. Gray is currently teaming up with Lionsgate on the long awaited sequel of Dirty Dancing, which she will star in and executive produce and for which I cannot wait. Welcome,

[4:10]Jennifer Grey: Jennifer. Thank you so much for coming on Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books. I'm so excited to talk about your memoir. I know. I'm so excited to talk about it too. I'm so excited that you finally got to know what it was I was talking about all that time. Seriously. Oh my gosh. Hope to make that happen.

[4:27]Zibby Owens: It's not easy. I mean, you've put so much in. I mean, it was beautifully done and so much. I see I mean, sometimes it's hard to find the right container for all the different stories, right? You've had such diverse experiences and with so many different characters and everything. How do you feel having gotten to the end of this project? It's been so

[4:51]Jennifer Grey: I think it's been one of the best experiences of my life. Kind of like having a baby, like when you're doing it, you're like, What the hell is going on? And then afterwards, you're like, I'd do it again. The truth is that for me, having never been a writer, I'd written journals as a kid and I had always liked writing, but it was mostly just for myself. And I had this really, really minimal amount of memories, really like scattershot. Is that the expression, scattershot? Doctor. Yeah. I didn't have a contiguous through line. Just had these slides of memories. I mean, it was never like this happened and that happened and that happened. It was more like, well, let me just get down on my computer with these two fingers, because I don't even type, like these two FU fingers really slowly, which made me actually take my time because of how slow I am with the computer that I would just try to get what I knew out. And once I got what I knew out, then I would just put it aside and then I would just get the next thing that I could remember. And they were very much I have a very synesthetic memory. My memories are not who made dinner and who played with me. It was more like, I remember the texture of the corduroy, the ribbing on the corduroy dress in that photograph, or I remember the texture of the wallpaper that was silver with kind of matte, chalky white design on it. I was like, Well, that's not going to make a very good book. I'd be like, Okay. And then I would just do it in little dreamlike, just little snapshots. And then I almost felt like it started to meet me. The book started to give me more. And I remember when I was first thinking, maybe I should try writing. I read the Anne Lamott book, The Bird by Burger, and she talks about school lunches. Do you remember that? Sort of, yes. She would say, Start with what you had in your school lunch. And I'd be like, Oh, And then you're concentrating on this really, really minute detail. And then it almost opens up like I picture it like a pomegranate and in my head, my brain, my memory bank are just all of those little pods. And they're all juicy and they're all intact. They're all mashed together. And that's how I just see it. And all of a sudden I would just pod by pod, like bird by bird. I would notice things being revealed to me without me pushing on the door. And then I would get excited by the fact, well, I remember I would sit with my dad doing his makeup and I would go on the matinee. And I remember it like it was yesterday, though I can't tell you what I had for dinner yesterday. I remember the smell. Could remember exactly what the lighting I could feel it. I could feel where the doorway was, where the people would come in. And yet I can't remember so many things. So I just tried to let myself be as odd and stop judging and deciding it was odd. Just say, well, let's just see what we have and stop pushing on it. And as soon as I stop pushing on it, I would also say to myself, well, what else? It doesn't have to be related, just what else? Well, I remember, oh, that was bad. But how did that happen? I don't know. Now I remember being in Rio and how that happened. I'm like, what did your parents say? I don't remember it, but this I do remember. I remember the wild dogs on Ipanema Beach. And then found a little scrap of and then I had all these diaries that I was reading to refresh my memory. And I would see like notes and saying like a note that I never sent to the guy that I went away with saying, and how could you have just let me just throw up on the side of the road? I was like, I don't even remember that. And I was like, that's really bad. So I thought, I mean, like there's a good, Did I imagine this? This is so terrible and also so amazing because I've had such amazing great fortune and such a lightning in a bottle. Good luck. And then bizarre, surreal turns of events that I can't find anyone who could share that experience with me.

[9:42]Zibby Owens: Does that answer your question? That answered my question. Yeah, it's crazy about memory, the short term versus the long term. And I feel like I've gotten to the point where friends of mine will tell me a story and then but it won't come back. Like, it used to be that they'd remind me of something we all did and I would remember it. And now I'm like, Nope. Just don't have that memory at all. That happens too. But then all of a sudden,

[10:04]Jennifer Grey: I can all of a sudden think about the party in East Hampton where everyone was making out and everyone was getting stoned. I can just, all of a sudden, I could hear the crinkle of the Pepperidge Farm paper that was all pleated. Could feel the tin of the banana cake with the buttercream frosting, right? And how moist it was and then bending. I could feel the bending. Oh, totally.

[10:34]Zibby Owens: Doesn't like Sara Lee. Right. Nobody doesn't like. Nobody doesn't like. Yes, exactly. Nobody doesn't like Sara Lee. Yeah. We had those all the time in the freezer. Yeah. Well, that makes me want to get one right now and put it in the Right? I don't know. I feel like there used to be all these products that all of us shared in addition to shared entertainment and everything. Now that's- Well, you know,

[10:59]Jennifer Grey: I think we have more connectivity because we all know you're soaking in it. Or we all know plot, plot, fizz, fizz, because we had no choice about we were forced to watch the same commercials because we were forced to watch a limited amount of shows. And it was either that or do your homework or write your diary or practice your recorder. It was just like you had to be bored in order to watch that awful American what was it called? Animal Kingdom. Mule Gibbons. Oh, that was so depressing. It made connectivity between us because there was one movie that would come out that summer, which Cassidy or whatever it was. And we all saw the same thing. And now everyone sees everything and they see whatever they want all day long.

[11:52]Zibby Owens: Don't know. I do sound like an old lady like, No, I'm a jerk. No, I feel the same way. I feel the same way. And it was such a particular generation. I feel like even just like even 10 younger than me, it's not the same thing. Yeah, I don't know. But in your memoir, you know, one of the things I was so struck by was just how, despite all the love in your life, how just on your own you seem to be, like, without anybody, like, catching you when you were falling. Like, that you're the Johnny Carson moment for me and the dress. And then I know it's not the end of the world where it's in Restitute premieres, but just how fragile you were, literally, like, basically broken and not even And realizing then having to be thrust into all these situations and just who is like taking care of you? You know, how do you get over that? And obviously you made it through and all of that, but, you know, I just, I don't know, my heart just kind of went out to you. You think that in these moments they're like the best moments of someone's life and yet it could be the exact opposite.

[12:56]Jennifer Grey: Well, because I ate ten days before I had just been in the car accident. I would think that I would have extra special kid gloves. And a lot of people showing up and offering me clothes or lending me money or taking me shopping. It was culturally the generational shift of what it was like to be a mom and dad in those days was very different, obviously. I mean, my parents were super close, super close, almost too close, almost too all over me, right? Which created the individuating rebellion that had to ensue to just it's the natural course of things, goes from child to adult. But my parents, when they would go to Europe, they would go for weeks maybe and they would be like, we're going to call collect on Sunday nights, be home. I was like, okay. Then we'd wait for the call and we get the call, but they would come back, would do little like, stand on this and we'll put an outline on your foot so we can get you shoes. And they'd come back with presents from Italy or whatever, little matchbooks from the greedy palace or whatever. But there was a lot of them doing their own thing, which was really considered they weren't even socialites the way some of my other friends were socialites. But they had a big career and they went away on vacations without us. And I was taking the bus to school. I was starting probably in very early in grade school, like fourth, third grade, I would take the Crosstown bus and then I'd take the Fifth Avenue bus to go to the Fleming School. So it was considered, I remember being walked to the bus the first few times, getting my bus pass

[14:46]Zibby Owens: you know, and just traveling the city by myself as a kid. I have to say though, I think the buses must have been different. Like I took the bus everywhere too. We all took the bus. But like the buses were filled with all the kids going to school. I don't know that it's the same thing. The You bus pass, I was like, what color I don't know. Is it to be this I haven't been on a bus around school time for a long time. Okay. Well, I'm just telling you the kids, most of the kids Well, I shouldn't say that. It's not Anyway But I took the subway when I was going to the United Nations School. I would take the Lexington Avenue subway. And that

[15:18]Jennifer Grey: was gnarlier, really young. I remember being scared. We were much more I mean, nobody had cell phones. When I went to Europe as a teenager, I just had maybe $200 of traveler's checks and that's it. No credit card, no cell phone. It was much more the norm at the time to not hear from your parents or them to hear from you for a long period of time. And it wasn't out of lack of love, was just normal. And in a way, it created a resilience in me and an independence in me, even though to this day I just deeply attached to my parents. They're both alive, they're both 90. And I'm just like, I talk to them every day. I just can't imagine my life without them. And as a kid, I lived in terror of anything happening to my parents. So super bound to them, super dependent on them. But there was a thing in me that was I could handle myself. I could handle myself. I mean, I took night trains in Europe by myself. I mean, I don't know, I didn't even know where I was going. I was like, think I'll go to the South Of Maranzagil and I would just go on, look on the train schedule and get on the train and not know where I'm going. I'm just in Saint Tropez, where should I stay? I didn't know anybody, no friends there. That's pretty, I don't know, I just can't imagine my child knowing. It's just different. It was a time when travel was different and it didn't feel like we didn't know we could have a phone.

[17:12]Zibby Owens: I do think, I mean, part of the attachment or the intense worry about something happening to your parents, I feel like that's so classic anxiety stuff, right, which you talk Well,

[17:24]Jennifer Grey: I'm very classic anxiety stuff, as you can tell from my book. Doctor. Yes. And you talk

[17:29]Zibby Owens: about it. Yeah. But

[17:31]Jennifer Grey: I didn't know it. I didn't know what it was because we didn't talk about that kind of stuff then. I knew there were people who had depression, but they didn't have that. And I didn't know there was any medicine for me. Didn't know I had ADHD. I didn't know I had anxiety. I didn't know that I had auditory processing. And I was just like, Okay, just going to make this work. What do I have to do to get through this? Because it was the Wild West compared to now, right? So true.

[18:00]Zibby Owens: I think it's so interesting that you had all these fears. And also, there's this whole movement of your body keeps the score and all this stuff and how your body can internalize things. And here you are living life with this chronic pain that was And not addressed for so I know a lot of it was exacerbated or perhaps just totally caused by the accident. But the amount and then how you described it in such detail on the book and the operations and just the deterioration of the vertebrae and all how much pain that's seen in the shower where you were on your bed, like you couldn't the nerve damage. I don't know. I mean, that was so intense. What was it like to relive it as you wrote about it? And how do you feel now? Well, just talking about it makes my neck tight. I'm kidding.

[18:50]Jennifer Grey: I take very special care of my spine now and I know that there are certain things I can and can't do, but there are certain things I must do. Must exercise. If my head's like this too long, I have to pull it back. I know that I have to move, that if I don't move, things really get really spasmy. So I just treat myself like if I was a diabetic, I'd have to shoot myself with insulin. It's just one of those things that I've learned to care for. Oh, I'm not good in that. If I'm sitting in a restaurant, I can't sit like this. I would take a plane ride with you, I would have to switch seats halfway through if we were talking because I can't just sit this, I have to then sit this way. So it's kind of just like special needs that you just start to understand what it needs. But the idea of chronic pain is really so debilitating because it's like a frog in the water and you don't know it's getting hotter until you're too weak to jump out, but you could have jumped out, but it just is incremental. So your world just gets smaller and smaller and you start just accommodating all of these things to try to figure out how to get out of pain because pain is our biggest teacher, right? It just tells us what we need. And it usually, for me, a really great barometer to know if I'm anxious or unhappy about something and not expressing it. I'll just start to feel it and I'll be like, Oh, what are you trying to tell me? Oh, okay. Oh, there's that Sarno book. I actually saw Doctor. Sarno and he's like, Your neck's fine, you're angry. I'm like, Well, now I'm angry. I wish I waited like a year to get in with you. But anyway, but what he talks about is really interesting, which is if you are what he calls a good, if you're a good or a pleaser or somebody who thinks about other people's needs ahead of your own, you're more likely to have this particular, he has a name for it, whatever this thing is. And what happens is you're not allowed to be mad. You're basically trained to not have needs, not be angry, otherwise the love will be taken away. And so what happens is if you are mad or you're angry, of feeling it or expressing which is too threatening for your system, your family system or whatever your ecosystem is that you swim in, that if if you're a migraine sufferer, let's say, or if you have a neck issue, instead of going, Oh, I've got a bad neck. Because if I say, Oh, I've got a migraine, you'll say, Oh, go lay down. And I'll never have to tell you I'm mad. But if he says, if you say to yourself, Oh, I'm feeling this feeling. What am I mad about? Nothing. Well, if you were mad at anything, what could you be mad at? Nothing. Everything's fine. Pick one thing you could be mad at. Blah, blah, blah, The fact that I had to Okay. Go into that feeling. You don't even have to say it to the person. Just making it conscious can literally change the way that oxygen is sent to that section of your brain, your stomach, your nervous, anything, whatever your thing is, becomes like, what's it called? What's it Psychosomatic? No, no, it's not psychosomatic because it's physical. When it's a scapegoat, what happens is you don't have to get mad. You can say, Oh, I just really have a terrible migraine and then everyone's nice to you because you're injured. So now it literally changes the way oxygen is sent to that spot. Don't you think that's interesting? I find that fascinating. Yes. So if I have a chronic problem of like, I have a bad back, I have a bad Well, I could say there's a lot that I was never aware of being angry about because who would love me if I was angry? Who would be able to tolerate my displeasure or disappointing them? And then you realize you've put yourself in this little corner, if you will. And then you're living your life in corners because you're not really free to be you and me the way Marlowe Thomas said. Like you're not free to have feelings that are unpopular or to disappoint people are not put everyone ahead of yourself. And then of course you're mad. There's no balance to that. So I don't know if that's a long winded answer, something I hope you're very- found that totally interesting. I have- But feel free to cut it out. I'm not cutting it out. Are you kidding? I'm about to go try that with somebody in my orbit who

[23:27]Zibby Owens: does this frequently. Yeah. I'm you need going to to try say is give yourself,

[23:31]Jennifer Grey: what if you were mad about something, what would it be? You have to pick something. And then the more you experience and feel it, you watch the brain not have to divert to your weak spot, which is legit because you have a problem that's been legitimized by a doctor. Wow.

[23:51]Zibby Owens: Let me know how it goes. I will. I'll report back. I'll report back. It's excellent. I loved reading about your becoming a mother and how that changed your approach to life and your feelings about your daughter and what that was like. So just tell me a little more about that and even what it was like writing about it and just some of the joy and how that moment shifted everything. Today's episode is sponsored by Quince. Summer always makes me rethink what I'm reaching for every day. Lighter fabrics, better materials, pieces that just feel good the moment you put them on and look effortless. That's why I keep coming back to Quince. They focus on high quality essentials. Think breathable linen, soft organic cotton, washable silk, but without the luxury markup. It's that rare balance where everything feels elevated but still easy. Quince has beautiful everyday pieces like 100% European linen pants, dresses, and tops with styles starting at $32. Their denim is soft and easy to wear. I wear my jean jacket all the time. And their organic cotton sweaters are perfect for layering on cool summer nights. Everything at Quince is priced 50 to 80 percent less than similar brands. Quince works directly with ethical factories and cuts out the middlemen, so you're paying for quality, not brand markup. And it's not just clothing. Quince has really become a destination for elevated essentials across home, kitchen, bedding, and beyond, making it easy to bring a more premium feel into everyday life. In addition to my jean jacket, I recently got a white tank top dress with a beautiful cotton skirt that is absolutely gorgeous, and I can't wait for it to be warm enough so I can wear it every day, but it has been a cool spring. Elevate your summer wardrobe. Go to quince.com/zippy for free shipping on your order and three hundred and sixty five day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's quince.com/zippy for free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com/zippy.

[27:02]Jennifer Grey: Well, actually, before when you were asking asking me how it felt to revisit the accident and all the pain and the surgeries and stuff, it was hard because you go back into the scene in order to try to remember everything you can remember. And it's painful. And then when I looked at the parts in which I betrayed myself by not fighting for my career, not fighting, allowing people to treat me in ways that I wished I had known better. That regret of being so empathetic to the fact that I felt so I didn't feel like I had a right to pursue my dream. That to be a good person means that I would have to subjugate. What's the word? Subjugate? No, I would have to capitulate to serve the master of whatever that person is. Usually a man, usually a parent, usually a person that I've just been wired to serve. And all of a sudden, when I got to the good part of getting to write about having my daughter, it was like going on vacation. It was like, Oh, that's what I had to go through all that for. Because all of this stuff that I thought I wanted, whether it was fame, money, or recognition, or people to love me or not put me in the corner, whatever the thing was that I had no capacity to change certain things. I felt so stunted and shunted, every other unted that I could think of. And I got pregnant and I was just it was literally like I was released. I was released and I knew that there was no place that I would rather be. I knew there was no job more important. I wasn't jealous of anyone. I wasn't sad. I met this beautiful man who was doing this with me and was showing up. And I just love being pregnant. I loved feeling like that's all I need to do right now. I had the luxury of not having to do crappy job at the same time and that I got to luxuriate in recognizing I almost didn't make it. Was 41 when I gave birth and I got pregnant like that naturally. And I didn't even think that that was that special because I was in so much denial about the realities and then having it be scary that maybe she wasn't okay. And then I realized I don't care about anything else. I don't care about anything else, just make my baby okay. And to this day, I'm still trying to get a little bit more me centric, but it's really intense because the love and the amount of how important it feels that I give her everything in my power so that she can have a good life to the best of my ability because there's so much out of my hands, but that I've done a good job. And it's a job that you never can do perfectly, which is really infuriating. It's always something I'm not doing perfectly. That'll learn me. It's the hardest job to do well, isn't it consistently?

[30:27]Zibby Owens: It is impossible. And yet there is always the next day to try again. I feel like that's the saving Right.

[30:33]Jennifer Grey: And there's no end to those chances. And the fact that I literally would be like, Today's the day I'm going to conquer naps or whatever it is. I'm going to get her to get that second nap, dammit, or whatever it is. And then they get older and you're like, Wow, my job's almost done here. This is intense. And then you realize how little control you have over any of it, that they're just this soul on their own, doing their thing and on their journey. Just like my parents tried their best and did a great job, same will. She'll be writing some book about me and I would have said like, wow, man, I really tried just like they did. And I did better and then she'll do better than me. That's just evolution in my opinion. Have you talked with her about your book? Has she read it? So I was living with her during the pandemic when I was in earnest writing every day, because I'd started a couple of years ago. But once the pandemic hit, all I was doing was working. And so I would say, Hey, can I read you something? Can I read you something? And she'd be like, Okay. And I'd see her be like, Okay, how long is it? And I'd be like, Just a paragraph. And I was squeezing out a few more. It was just a paragraph and I don't want her to see. I'm reading really fast. And she'd be like, Wow, that's great. That's great. And I was like, Okay, thanks. And then at the end I said, I really want you to read it. I really feel like I want you to because I wrote it pretty much for me, but also for her. Because I feel like what they, I believe this is my opinion that I don't know how much you talk about epigenetics or you understand about epigenetics, but there is so much in my opinion expressed genetically unsaid things that they perceive more than what we tell them. And that if I could give her any more insight or understanding, because she didn't know me as a girl. She didn't know me as a struggling actress. She didn't know me really getting beat up in the romantic world in my adventures. She didn't know that each time I was landing on my feet, a little bit lighter, the cost was great, but that I could continuously learn, continuously get better. She wouldn't know that part of me. I thought any way I can show her what is in her genes expressed, the trauma that's expressed in her genes and the anxiety and all these things, as well as the incredible great stuff I have and the great stuff that my ex husband has. So what happened was she said, I don't want to read it until I get the hard copy book because I like to underline and annotate, and I want to annotate and I want the real thing because that's the book I want to give to my kids. Aw,

[33:36]Zibby Owens: that's so sweet.

[33:37]Jennifer Grey: So the other day she started annotating, underlining, and then she texted me, I'm so proud of you, mama. And I was like, why? And then she showed me a picture. She just moved into her own first apartment. And she showed me, took a picture of my book sitting at a bedside table. She said, You have so much grace. I said, Honey, what? It was like the best day of my life. And she said, I just can't believe you know how to write a book that you wrote. No, she didn't say. She said, I just can't believe how good your book is and how much grace you have. And I said, Well, here's the thing, honey. Everything that I have is in you. And everything amazing about your dad is also in you. She's grown up with two famous parents. And having grown up the child of a famous actor, I know that it comes with its own pressure and burden of like, will I ever get to be what they were? Because it just looks like a fairy tale if you're a kid. How did that happen? And so I said, she is so much like me and so much like my ex husband, I said, because she's a writer. She wants to be an actor. She's pursuing it. And I said, please start writing because the best thing you could do is to be able to write material for yourself to act in and not be waiting for someone to give you permission to do what you love. And she's like, I know, I know, I know. I said, I'm telling you everything that I am. You could do anything I have and better. Same with your dad. You've got really talented. You've got a dad who can write and direct and act and is charming and smart and curious. All of that's in you. Just think it's cool to to know. I can see it in her. There's no reason she shouldn't have whatever it is that she decides makes her happy.

[35:43]Zibby Owens: I love that. I love the image of your book on her bedside with her notes in it. Oh my gosh. I mean, that's like the dream. Right? And to have her be so positive. Oh my gosh. It's I mean, you may have had a lot of bad days of parenting, but I feel like that is the score at the end when you can get to a moment like that. It's like, you know what? It didn't matter about the two naps. Right? Because here you are. No. It's all about the helicopter shot. You know? Just like we pull up and we just look and we go, not too shabby.

[36:12]Jennifer Grey: Like this morning, my dad finally got the book. I was asking him to send it to him, he's like, why haven't I gotten it yet? I called him this morning because he got COVID the other day. No. None of us have had it. My ex husband just got it. My dad just got it right after his ninetieth birthday and I just flew in. Oh no. So excited to see him. And so the book arrived just in time. So he's home isolating and he was so sweet this morning. He was like, Oh my God, you're writing. And I was like, I can't believe I've lived to have this moment. Everyone else can say it's shite, but my dad, I just can't. Yeah. So I've been very protective of it because it's so scary and I just didn't want to have too many voices in my head. I really tried as well as I could to write my story without and also being so mindful and so concerned about hurting other people or anyone else misunderstanding it. Just knowing that this is just my story as I deserve to tell it because it's my life, but it's not me speaking for anyone else. It's just what I remember. And memory can be faulty, but I tried my very best to just say what happened from my perspective.

[37:28]Zibby Owens: I love it. And the love you felt for your family, it totally came through. Mean, it really really did. It was it was amazing. Congratulations. I'm so glad you read it. Oh, yeah. I read every word. I really I I couldn't get enough. I was like, couldn't believe some of the stuff you'd been through, the adventures. I mean, I felt like I went on the wildest ride. It was fabulous. Thank you. The highs, the lows, the trips, you know, your life. And now everybody gets to be in your shoes. Oh my gosh. Anyway, well done. Great job. Congratulations. I hope you get everything you want out of this whole journey of publication.

[38:09]Jennifer Grey: It's kind of there. I mean, to me, the writing of it was such a Herculean effort for me and the fact that I did it myself. And then I have this wonderful editor named Barbara Jones, who I hired the last few months, and we just did really day hours just on Zoom, never in person. And she just helped shape it. And I just know, I can't believe I did it. It's a little like a dream. So I kind of feel like the rest of it's, you know? Icing on the cake. Well, still. All right. Well, thank you I'm so happy that you read it and I'm so glad to be here with you. And congratulations on Princess Charming. Oh, thank you. How do you feel?

[38:53]Zibby Owens: Oh, it's so fun. I love my kids. They're so a part of everything. I've been putting my older daughter in the Princess Charming costume Oh and bringing my gosh. I'm like, that's my daughter in there. So What does that feel like? Oh, it's great. She's having a blast. You know, the book was really about her. So the fact that she's there literally in the costume about the book that's really about her is also like meta. It's so I was going to say it's so meta. Right? Yeah. But it's been great, but thank you for mentioning. So

[39:20]Jennifer Grey: Well, I'm excited for you. I can't wait to see it. Thank you.

[39:24]Zibby Owens: All right. Well, thank you for coming on Mom's Now Time to Read Books.

[39:28]Jennifer Grey: Oh, it's a pleasure. I'm just so happy to see you on your podcast instead of in person. Yes, you too. And thank you for being so generous to me when I was feeling so, Ah, I'd lost. Man, when you're out there, before you figure it out, I don't know, it was just thinking back on it, a lot's happened, but it was all there. I just was like, now it's done. Totally get it. All done.

[39:51]Zibby Owens: All right. Enjoy your time. Thanks. Okay. You so much. Bye. Thank you for listening to Totally Booked with Sibby, formerly moms don't have time to read books. If you loved the show, tell a friend, leave a review, follow me on Instagram at Zibby Owens, and spread the word. Thanks so much. Oh, and buy the books.