Matt Gutman on the LA fires, his news coverage, and his book
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[0:44]Matt Gutman is ABC News's Chief National Correspondent.
[0:49]He was on this podcast for his book No Time to Panic, but I wanted to have him back
[0:54]on because I was watching his footage and coverage of the fires in Los Angeles the whole
[1:00]time from my couch and just couldn't believe he was out there risking his life to report
[1:06]on what was going on and informing the rest of us about it, so I wanted to ask him about
[1:10]it.
[1:11]That's what this episode is about.
[1:12]Yes, it's about his anxiety, which he wrote about in his book, but it's about how
[1:17]he navigated that and everything that was going on in the world as a reporter and how
[1:22]he feels about LA now.
[1:24]Listenin.
[1:25]His bio, Matt Gutman, is ABC News's Chief National Correspondent, a multi-award winning reporter
[1:30]Gutman contributes regularly to world news tonight, 2020, good morning America and
[1:34]night line.
[1:35]He has reported from 50 countries across the globe and is the author of The Boys in the
[1:39]Cave deep inside the impossible rescue in Thailand.
[1:42]He lives in Los Angeles with his wife and two children.
[1:45]Welcome back, Matt.
[1:46]Thank you so much for coming back on.
[1:48]Last time you were here to talk about your book No Time to Panic, and we talked all about
[1:53]your panic attacks and different remedies that you tried and ways you've come to manage
[1:58]it and to put it into sort of national historical context and all of that.
[2:03]I knew all of that, and then I watched you on TV dealing with all of the fires in California
[2:09]and I was thinking to myself, how is he doing this?
[2:11]How is he doing this?
[2:12]Anyway, I asked you back on to discuss your experience pairing panic and anxiety when real
[2:18]life things happen that are even worse than things that we could imagine.
[2:22]It's always good to be on with you.
[2:25]It's funny to talk about this stuff.
[2:27]People often ask me that question.
[2:30]You've spent time in Gaza, you've seen the most horrific things.
[2:34]You were in Israel on October 8th, just very shortly after the October 7th attack.
[2:42]You've experienced such trauma and horror in your day job and yet you have anxiety that
[2:48]sometimes has been crippling.
[2:51]How does this work?
[2:53]The answer is that when the shit is hitting the fan so to speak, I'm at my most lucid
[2:59]because I don't have time for anxiety.
[3:01]You were so focused on the task at hand and the thing that you're seeing, that you're witnessing
[3:07]is so much bigger than you or your personal worries that all that stuff goes by the wayside.
[3:14]It's just focusing on doing whatever it is or telling the story of people whose community
[3:20]is burning down before your eyes, community that I knew very, very well, no very well.
[3:25]My aunt lives there, my cousins grew up there, I have other cousins there, people like
[3:29]you.
[3:30]It's strange how the stress of reporting when a fire is consuming a community and towns
[3:41]and there's actual physical danger that could affect you and dealing with anxiety.
[3:47]I bet if you ask most people who have anxiety, they'll say, oh no no, in times when stuff
[3:53]was real, that's when I was my most clear, that's when I had the least amount of anxiety.
[3:58]That's when I performed the best.
[4:00]Interesting.
[4:01]Yeah, it's like adrenaline-fueled focus or something.
[4:04]Yeah, I think the risk is adrenaline too, but it's also the narrowing down of options.
[4:11]One of the things that's always has bothered me in terms or caused me anxiety and sometimes
[4:16]panic attack is the expectations, right?
[4:20]But when you're forced to deal with just one thing, I don't have time to worry about
[4:26]what school my kids are going to go to, or yeah, or my son with his ADHD and, you know,
[4:33]haranguing me about that one thing that the app he wants and we're trying to limit the
[4:37]apps on the iPad or whatever it is that he has.
[4:40]And I'm like, no, you know, those little worries, what we're going to eat, did I work out?
[4:45]Did I overeat?
[4:46]Did I under eat?
[4:47]Did like, what do my colleagues think, no, you've got to focus on this one thing.
[4:51]And the clarity that comes with this hyper focus, especially for someone like me who has
[4:56]ADHD, is actually a relief.
[4:59]So I've always found that.
[5:01]I mean, there's a flag behind me and that's a Fede and Saddam flag, government, by the way.
[5:07]And I got that in 2003 in Iraq, the US invaded Iraq, obviously in 2003, it toppled Saddam
[5:13]Hussein and nobody wanted to take that thing because it was believed at the time that
[5:18]the US was using depleted uranium to take down buildings that belong to the Saddam regime.
[5:25]We weren't quite sure about it, but this pretty awesome flag was there at the building
[5:29]that housed the personal militia of Saddam Hussein.
[5:34]And I'm like, I got to get that thing.
[5:36]So like I scrambled up and took it and it's like, you know, it's things that like other
[5:39]people say are like really stressful, end up being moderate, not, but they end up being
[5:44]easier for some people like me because of the way our brains work.
[5:51]And so again, it's like the dealing with the stress of what should be super stressful times
[5:55]is actually the most clarifying moments that some of us have.
[5:59]And there is something too because of the thickness of it, right?
[6:01]Like, you know, you know that you're witnessing history and like the bad kind of history.
[6:07]And there's also something that is called negative awe, which you know, we know the awe
[6:12]we experience when we see the Grand Canyon or a beautiful Vista or a sunset with a loved
[6:18]one that is sort of branded in our memories.
[6:22]But there's also the inverse of that, which is negative awe when you see a fire and you
[6:27]see it move so fast that it takes your breath away.
[6:33]And that's what you see when you close your eyes for days afterwards.
[6:36]And it's a form of imprinting and it's a form of trauma, but it is also something that
[6:41]we are, I think, evolutionarily programmed to sort of be able to deal with when we have
[6:46]to.
[6:47]I mean, I want to ask you, you know, so we almost we sort of evacuated them.
[6:52]We came back.
[6:53]We didn't leave.
[6:54]We were one block away from an evacuation from a mandatory evacuation zone.
[6:58]And we were in evacuation warning area and my wife and I debated, but we ended up staying
[7:02]when we watched the fire move away from our community, then, you know, which is just over
[7:07]the Santa Monica mountains from the palisades and Brentwood.
[7:12]So I wanted to ask you, like, what was it like to experience through that next video
[7:17]watching your house nearly burned down?
[7:19]No, I'm asking you questions.
[7:22]No.
[7:23]Well, it was, it was horrific.
[7:24]I mean, it's still horrific.
[7:25]You talk about like imprinting on your brain, but as we were, and we were in New York at
[7:29]the time, and as we were there watching TV and then watching you reporting for days
[7:34]and everything and telling us what was going on and we felt so helpless, right?
[7:38]There was no information.
[7:39]There was no email being like, oh, here's what's going on with your street or here,
[7:44]you know, so we, like everybody were dependent on, on the news and watching people like
[7:48]you who are bravely going out.
[7:50]And that's when I DMJ, I was like, oh my gosh, like, you're doing such a good job.
[7:55]But I wanted to know what it, what it felt like being there.
[7:58]And I'm sure that's just too big a question, but, and you've been through so many things
[8:02]as you've said and as you wrote about in the book, but what was it like there then?
[8:07]If you, you know, what was it like?
[8:09]I, I, okay, so the first day I got there, the fire started at 10 30 and it's so funny.
[8:14]When you did that hit on CBS, you mentioned, and I think that was January 9th or 8th.
[8:21]I think, you know, maybe, I don't know actually, yeah, one of those very soon after the
[8:26]fire started.
[8:27]It was the day.
[8:28]It was the day.
[8:29]It was the day.
[8:30]Right.
[8:31]And you mentioned that they're right next to you had been a fire on New Year's Day.
[8:36]And it turned out that they believe it's suspected that that fire was the fire that started
[8:43]the Palisades fire, that it was sort of, it had gone sub-terranean fire fighters thought
[8:47]they put it out, but it turns out, you know, fires can live underground.
[8:51]And what they need is, is fuel and the fuel can come in different ways.
[8:55]It can be wood, but it also can be wind.
[8:58]And once that wind event kicked it up, it just ignited this inferno.
[9:02]I did ask firemen about this though.
[9:05]And they said that they, that was not the case and that they never leave a fire unless
[9:08]it's cold.
[9:09]But they don't know sometimes if it's underground, if they would never leave, they,
[9:12]they do incredible work, but fires can live underground for weeks buried in the roots.
[9:19]So I, it's still being investigated.
[9:21]Okay.
[9:22]I was just saying, that was it.
[9:24]I'm not dying to know.
[9:25]And so it's definitely something that's being investigated, but it's, it's interesting
[9:28]that you, like you were there, you were there and you experienced it and you saw what
[9:32]may have been the start of that fire and that you did experience evacuation.
[9:38]So I was there, it's, the fire started at 1030.
[9:41]I was in the Palisades by like 12, 12, 15.
[9:44]I saw the Paul Revere school down the hill just a couple of miles away being evacuated.
[9:50]And I was like, okay, that's big.
[9:52]And you know, driving in, I saw the fire sort of cantilevered or the smoke cantilevered
[9:58]over Pacific Palace.
[10:00]And so you know that's bad because that means there's a lot of wind pushing it.
[10:04]If the column of smoke is straight up, you know, something's burning.
[10:07]It's chewing through fuel and wood and the chaperel of the Santa Monica mountains and
[10:13]Southern California's famous for, which is highly flammable.
[10:16]But when it's like instead of straight up, it's going sideways.
[10:20]That's really bad.
[10:21]And so we got to the palisades and it was just gridlock on sunset boulevard, which is
[10:26]the main thoroughfare in the town.
[10:29]And my aunt lives in the palisades.
[10:31]She happened to be away, but she lives just off sunset.
[10:36]So, you know, the fire wasn't there.
[10:38]I looked down the street at her house as you can see it from sunset and it was okay.
[10:43]And then we did reporting and we were just, we couldn't get anywhere in the palisades
[10:48]because the gridlock was so bad and people were freaking out and it was terrifying.
[10:53]And so I actually got out of the truck and had my producer drive and I was sort of doing
[10:57]Tetris with the cars to move people aside to get, to try to get fire trucks through and
[11:02]for us to get to the fire and it was mayhem and you knew that this was going to be bad
[11:07]because of the gridlock.
[11:08]Anyway, so reporting throughout the day and it's, you know, it is a firestorm that the
[11:12]wind is fueling fire and it's making the fire bounce ahead of the actual main body of
[11:18]the flames by hundreds of yards, sometimes even more than a mile in this case.
[11:24]And eventually I went back to my aunt's house later that day and I, she was away and
[11:29]I spoke to my cousin and he told me where the spare key was and I ran into the house
[11:33]because the street, the apartment complex, the condo complex across the street from her
[11:41]was already ablaze.
[11:42]And so I knew that it was just a matter of time.
[11:45]And so I managed to get out some of her art, some of her most prized possessions, but
[11:49]not everything.
[11:50]And so like, it was, so here's, here's where I actually got scared because
[11:54]I'm so used to being outside of homes that are physically burning, right?
[11:58]And I don't have that fear.
[12:00]I know how to gauge fires.
[12:01]I've been doing this for a long time, but you're very rarely inside a house that's darkened
[12:07]in a place with no electricity where everything around is burning.
[12:11]And that was scary.
[12:12]And the fire alarms going off and they're smoking side of the house and every alarm inside
[12:17]your head, you know, the ones that gave me panic attacks is like, this is not good.
[12:23]Get out of here.
[12:24]And this is a dumb idea, even though like I kind of like, I thought I would save because
[12:28]the house wasn't on fire yet, but the houses across the street were.
[12:33]And so I got out some of her paintings and they're like big and I was like, I'm putting
[12:37]these very expensive, treasured pieces of art that are just so meaningful to my aunt
[12:42]and like the flat bed of this pickup that it rented.
[12:45]And I'm like, oh, this is not how they should be treated, but at least I'm getting them
[12:49]out because they couldn't fit inside the cab.
[12:51]And so I fit in other stuff in the cab.
[12:53]And then my cousin's like, I'm like, where are the documents where are most important
[12:56]documents?
[12:57]And she's like, he's like, she keeps them in the freezer.
[13:00]I'm like the freezer.
[13:01]Is that a thing?
[13:02]Did you know about that?
[13:03]No, but that's not a bad idea.
[13:05]I'm interesting.
[13:06]Yeah, apparently people keep the important documents in the freezer.
[13:08]So I start, I'm like going through the freezer and I'm like, I don't have time and like
[13:13]casseroles and meat and like friends and like stuff's going on the floor.
[13:18]And she's famous my aunt for chocolate chip cookies.
[13:22]And she makes the best.
[13:23]So like I see the chocolate chip cookies and I'm like, all right, those go in the fire
[13:27]jacket.
[13:28]So I'm stuffing them in the jacket, still looking for the documents, I get the documents,
[13:31]I put them in the coat, I take this stuff out.
[13:34]And I'm like, whatever house doesn't burn down and I just left all this food that now
[13:39]is was frozen is now going to melt on our floor and make a steak.
[13:43]So I run back inside because I'm like, I don't want to leave a mess.
[13:47]And I start like putting it either back in the freezer or in the sink and then I run
[13:51]back out.
[13:52]And that's like 8 p.m.
[13:53]And I'm back in the neighborhood at 3 p.m.
[13:56]And I drive by sunset and at this point it's like a total inferno that it looks like a tunnel
[14:01]of fire across sunset and it was one of the absolute scariest drives I've ever done just
[14:07]getting to work that day because by now most of the town had burned and just the difference
[14:13]between seeing the 8 p.m. burn which was catastrophic to the 3 a.m. or 245.
[14:21]It was just then you knew the town was gone.
[14:24]And at that point firefighters didn't have numbers and the city was saying, you know, we just
[14:29]have dozens of homes but like I'd seen with my own eyes hundreds and hundreds of homes.
[14:34]And so I went to go see my aunt's house and it was completely gone.
[14:40]It was just, it had burned so fast that whole neighborhood.
[14:43]This was the alphabet.
[14:44]She lives off of the Adele Paz and sunset.
[14:48]And so it's right behind Palisades Village, the mall just sort of the open air, nice mall
[14:54]which was saved by an army of private firefighters.
[14:58]But the whole area behind it, the entire neighborhood was gone.
[15:03]And my house, my aunt's house was gone too.
[15:05]It was crazy because it was just, it already almost completely burned out in just five
[15:09]hours or six hours.
[15:12]So I was happy that it was able to save some things but I wish I'd taken more and I was
[15:17]kicking myself.
[15:18]And then I have to go to do my my job, like I've got to go on air.
[15:22]We've got to find where we're going to go from and there's no signal because the electricity
[15:26]is out.
[15:27]So there was no power.
[15:29]There was no signal to go live with.
[15:31]So we were just like running around like crazy trying to hook up a star link which is the
[15:36]Elon Musk satellite link up.
[15:39]And that was, that was just the first morning and then it continued for day after day.
[15:43]But by the end of that morning, once the sun came up, it had become pretty apparent to
[15:48]us that this town was gone.
[15:51]And then we started to realize that Altadina, which had started burning later that evening,
[15:56]the day before was also gone and made even worse.
[16:01]And you know, it became ever more apparent that this was a significant cataclysm that
[16:08]will likely change the face of LA for a very long time.
[16:12]Oh my gosh.
[16:13]Well, thank you for putting yourself at risk and being on the ground and going literally
[16:18]the extra mile to find the spots to I know this is your job.
[16:22]But this is like heroic in the same way that the firemen were out there doing it.
[16:27]So thank you.
[16:29]So you do have this sort of recurring images or like how do you get past this?
[16:34]I mean, I have recurring images just from seeing how the footage you were in the middle
[16:37]of it.
[16:38]Like how do you go to sleep?
[16:39]I mean, for the first couple of days, I didn't sleep very much and I didn't sleep very
[16:43]well.
[16:44]And I was telling my kids, we have another cousin's house who his house survived, but
[16:50]I kept checking on that house as well.
[16:52]But I couldn't, when I closed my eyes, I couldn't stop seeing the images of the fires
[16:57]for a really long time.
[16:59]It's like, it just, you see stuff burning and just, you know, time.
[17:03]So eventually I was able to catch up on sleep.
[17:05]It took a while because GMA hits or begins at 7 a.m. Eastern.
[17:11]That's good morning America.
[17:12]And that's 4 a.m. on the West Coast.
[17:14]So in order to be ready at 4 a.m. to go live on TV, my team and I are often up at 1.30.
[17:20]So that's why I even want to talk about being exhausted or not sleeping much.
[17:24]That's why I mean, our hours were totally messed up.
[17:27]And then we try to like nap in the car in the fire zone if we could, but typically there
[17:31]wasn't time because we were just on around the clock.
[17:35]So I don't know.
[17:36]You know, I wrote about it.
[17:38]I journaled about it.
[17:39]I talked to a lot of people and actually one of the cathartic things that I ended up doing
[17:45]two weeks ago was going back with my aunt and showing her, going with her to her house
[17:53]for the first time.
[17:55]And so I'd been through there and again, and I got some sculptures, outdoor stuff that
[17:58]I managed to get out.
[18:00]And then I went through her safe, also the day after I'm burying the lead.
[18:06]I went through her safe the next day after the house had burned.
[18:10]And it was still sort of on fire and the documents inside were still cooking and glowing.
[18:16]And my team and I were sort of picking out hot jewelry and anything that we could before
[18:22]it melted completely.
[18:23]And we're able to get that to her and she was so grateful.
[18:27]And so that felt good to be able to help someone who's close to you and felt very close
[18:31]to home.
[18:32]And so going back with her, I know it was cathartic for her, but I don't know if she knows
[18:38]if it was as cathartic for me, and it was, it was really important to go back and to
[18:43]walk through the wreckage with her and she was able to salvage a couple of knickknacks, but
[18:48]not nothing really.
[18:50]So what happens is the fire cooks everything so thoroughly that even ceramics that you
[18:54]think may have survived, you end up picking them up and they just crumble in your hand.
[18:59]So there's not much that can be salvaged from those fires when they burn so hot.
[19:06]It was important for her to see it because she knew that there was nothing left and we
[19:10]spent a couple of hours digging through and just ensuring that she felt complete with it.
[19:16]And that's the things that I don't know if people like her are going to move back.
[19:22]You know, she's almost 75, right?
[19:24]And do you wait five years or 10 years for the rebuild?
[19:28]And do you want to live in a single in a house like that at that age?
[19:34]I don't know.
[19:35]These are tough questions a lot of people in the community are going to face.
[19:39]But at least for me going back with her, being able to get through the checkpoints and
[19:43]take her through, she's a resident was very meaningful and she wanted me to film.
[19:47]She's very private, but she actually wanted me to film her doing it, which I haven't
[19:51]posted.
[19:52]But it was just, it was really an important thing and, you know, driving with her through
[19:57]this town that she'd been living in for 40.
[20:00]years. You know, that's the
[20:01]village school where her kids
[20:03]went to school. And that's the
[20:04]supermarket she used to go to
[20:06]for all those years. And these
[20:08]are her friends and those are
[20:09]her neighbors. And that's the
[20:10]tree she planted. You know, it
[20:12]was, um, that was for me a form
[20:14]of a very important therapy
[20:16]enclosure. Did she find some
[20:18]girls to go? Is she all settled
[20:19]somewhere? She did. She's okay.
[20:21]Yeah. And I have to say,
[20:22]insurance to care for her and
[20:23]her sons were incredibly
[20:25]helpful in navigating the
[20:27]sometimes Byzantine and
[20:28]labyrinthine hopes that then
[20:30]insurance companies make people
[20:31]jump through. But the insurance
[20:33]company was great to her. And
[20:34]she's, she's going to be fine,
[20:36]right? You know, she's been
[20:37]made whole. She had old school
[20:39]insurance. She didn't have to
[20:40]have the fair plan. We know
[20:42]people who weren't insured at
[20:43]all. Um, so she's definitely
[20:46]one of the lucky ones and
[20:47]admits it. But, you know, it's
[20:49]and I think you mentioned to two
[20:51]on CBS. It's it's, yes, it's
[20:53]stuff that you lose. But if
[20:55]you live with that stuff,
[20:57]you know, whether it's Alta
[20:58]Dina or Northern California
[21:00]or, you know, a house that's
[21:01]been buried under sludge in
[21:04]and a flood in Beaumont, Texas.
[21:06]People live with their stuff
[21:08]and they love it and the family
[21:09]airrooms you don't even think
[21:10]about. You know, a knife that
[21:12]your mother left you that
[21:13]doesn't mean anything to
[21:14]anybody else. But it's the
[21:16]thing that you thought of or
[21:17]you every time you picked up that
[21:19]knife that your mother who's
[21:20]passed gave you, you think of
[21:22]your mother and it brings up
[21:24]those memories that one
[21:25]cherishes. And so it's it's
[21:28]less about it being stuff as it
[21:30]is about being prompts to
[21:32]important and cherished
[21:33]memories. And that's the kind
[21:35]of stuff that people lose. And
[21:36]I'm sure you did. And I know my
[21:38]aunt did. And that's what makes
[21:40]it hard. It's not about the
[21:42]the monetary loss. It's it's the
[21:44]stuff that you can't replace.
[21:45]Oh, my gosh. Okay. I don't
[21:47]mean to make you with some sort
[21:48]of expert in palaces, redevelopment
[21:50]or anything like that. But you've
[21:51]seen, I'm sure you've seen this
[21:53]happen throughout the world,
[21:55]right? Areas that have such
[21:56]devastation and then rebuild.
[21:58]Do you have hope for this area
[22:00]coming back? I think so. I think so.
[22:02]And I'll tell you why it's so
[22:03]beautiful. And yes, like, it's in
[22:06]a tough place. The Santa Monica
[22:08]mountains are just to the north
[22:10]of it. And the way the Santa
[22:12]Ana winds are in our part of
[22:15]Southern California, they blow
[22:18]northeast really. So basically
[22:19]towards the southwest. And
[22:23]there is a mountain range with
[22:24]lots of fuel to the north of
[22:27]Pacific palaces, which means
[22:30]it's it's a place that is fire prone
[22:31]even as damp and as lush and as
[22:33]temperate as it is because it's one
[22:35]of the most comfortable places in
[22:36]Los Angeles. Like my aunt didn't
[22:38]have air conditioning until a few
[22:39]years ago because she claimed she
[22:41]never needed it. They didn't even
[22:42]have mosquitoes. It was like this
[22:44]perfect place. But that's the thing.
[22:47]It's beautiful. It will remain
[22:49]beautiful. It will be beautiful
[22:51]again. It's right off the coast.
[22:53]It's sort of hilly. It's got the
[22:55]combination of coastline and
[22:58]mountains and shore and really
[23:00]nice lovely people. And I think
[23:03]people are want are going to want to
[23:05]go back to that. And I don't think
[23:07]it'll be a bad. And I think there's
[23:09]there's a lot of intense and
[23:11]intention into sort of recreating
[23:13]it. It'll be different. I don't
[23:15]know what it will look like. But I
[23:16]imagine that it won't be a bad
[23:18]and for very long. I'm I know that
[23:20]people are coming back and people
[23:22]are investing in and the same thing
[23:23]without the Dina. Also a lovely place.
[23:25]Also backed up against a very large
[23:28]mountain range that can produce
[23:30]devastating wildfires and mudslides
[23:33]as we saw in both places. So you know
[23:36]the the natural and environmental
[23:38]hazards are not insignificant.
[23:41]But the beauty in these places is great.
[23:43]And people are still going to want to
[23:45]pay for it. I think the issue that
[23:47]all of us are facing in Southern
[23:49]California and in many parts of the
[23:50]country, including Texas and Florida,
[23:54]is insurance. Insurance premiums are
[23:57]going to go up and significantly.
[23:59]There are experts we talked to who say,
[24:01]you know, we're looking at an
[24:02]uninsurable future. Or a future in
[24:04]which insurance premiums become
[24:07]prohibitive. But I still think
[24:09]people will be willing to pay for it
[24:11]in places like the Palisades. It's just
[24:14]it is so nice. It's so comfortable to live
[24:16]there. And people with money will
[24:18]always want to go back. So that's that's
[24:20]my guess. And you know, a lot of
[24:22]people give Caruso.
[24:25]Caruso is the the very big
[24:28]Californian developer who's behind
[24:30]Palisades village and who hired
[24:32]or whose insurance company hired this
[24:34]essentially a private firefighting
[24:36]army to defend this mall.
[24:39]And he got a lot of grief for it. But I
[24:41]know he also personally lost a lot.
[24:43]He's also investing a lot in the
[24:46]rehabilitation of the Palisades.
[24:48]And you know, the flip side of
[24:50]Palisades village being saved is that
[24:52]now there is an anchor. There is a set
[24:55]piece that is ready to go as soon as
[24:58]people want to come back and can come back
[25:00]that will be able to accommodate
[25:01]commerce and tourism. And that could be the
[25:04]start of something wonderful in
[25:06]Pacific Palisades. So I think, you know,
[25:09]hopefully it'll be a really good thing. And
[25:11]it's nice to see that there are still
[25:13]buildings standing. So really important
[25:15]that that's there. And you know,
[25:17]hopefully that is sort of the the
[25:19]kernel, the seed that starts the rest
[25:21]of the rebirth of that community.
[25:24]Have you guys been back to LA since?
[25:26]We have. And we drove up there. Our
[25:28]house is still there. But every other
[25:31]house, like the firefighters came
[25:33]early, which we saw on the nest. And
[25:35]we saw that after that the fire
[25:37]had come back and it ended up they
[25:39]put it out enough and got things wet
[25:41]enough that our house was saved,
[25:43]but we won't be able to live in it for
[25:44]years. And you know, there's so much
[25:46]damage. And anyway, the whole neighborhood
[25:48]is just like, what am I going to live at
[25:51]the top of a destroyed hillside where
[25:54]every other neighbor is gone. I mean,
[25:56]so it's like a haunted house that
[25:58]anyway. Yeah. So that's that's the problem
[26:02]for people whose houses survived. And
[26:04]so people like, oh, you're so lucky your
[26:06]home survived. But yeah, it's not
[26:08]exactly like that. The air quality and
[26:10]nobody knows. And anyway, exactly. So
[26:13]and the town, as you said, is just gone.
[26:14]So it's just beyond depressing.
[26:17]But anyway, thank you so much for
[26:19]telling me I was I've been thinking of you
[26:21]this whole time and thanks for being on
[26:22]the ground and for sharing your
[26:24]experiences today and and all that. So
[26:26]thank you. Thanks for being good to be with
[26:29]you too. Thank you for listening
[26:31]to totally booked with Zibi, formerly
[26:33]mom's don't have time to read books.
[26:35]If you loved the show, tell a friend,
[26:38]leave a review, follow me on instagram at
[26:40]Zibi Owens and spread the word.
[26:43]Thanks so much. Go and buy the books.