Michelle Jungmin Bang, SUN & SSUKGAT, The Korean Art of Self-Care, Wellness & Longevity
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[0:44]Michelle Jungman-Bang is the author of Sun and Sook Gett, the Korean art of self-care,
[0:50]wellness, and longevity.
[0:52]Michelle is an award-winning eco-entrepreneur and Harvard Business School graduate who spent
[0:56]16 years living in Asia as a Korean American from New York City.
[1:00]Her wellness guide covers her research, interviews, and personal eco-conscious journey
[1:04]in uncovering centuries-old well-being traditions from her time in Asia and Korea, where
[1:09]scientists project its people while toppling devotee charts in 2030.
[1:13]Michelle is the co-founder and founding CEO of The R Collective, formerly BYT, a sustainable
[1:19]fashion brand that creates affordable luxury pieces out of high-end materials that would
[1:23]otherwise have been disposed of in a landfill.
[1:26]She is passionate about driving social impact and serves as a board director and founding
[1:30]member of various mission-driven organizations.
[1:33]Welcome, Michelle.
[1:34]Thank you so much for coming on Totally Booked with Zibi.
[1:37]Congrats.
[1:38]I'm so excited to be here today.
[1:40]Thank you so much for having me, Zibi.
[1:42]Well, I could use a self-care discussion this morning.
[1:45]I do like we all could use this, some maybe anti-aging, some, make yourself feel better.
[1:53]Oh my gosh.
[1:54]Share your secrets.
[1:56]Why did you write this book?
[1:57]Tell, how did you get into this whole field?
[2:01]Discuss the whole thing.
[2:02]Yeah.
[2:03]Well, I'll just go back and say I'm a Korean American and a social impact entrepreneur.
[2:08]So I trained in East West preventative care, integrative nutrition, which extends into
[2:14]training in healthy aging and mother-baby care.
[2:18]And the book is actually about my food and medicine journey, culminating all of these experiences
[2:23]across Asia.
[2:25]But you know, I, for two decades and counting, I've been living in Hong Kong and New York
[2:29]I'm a Hong Kong expat.
[2:31]So I split my time with my family between the two cities and it's very much integrated
[2:37]into how I wrote the book.
[2:38]It's more of like an East West perspective.
[2:41]I actually was born in recent Brooklyn.
[2:44]So these are all experiences that kind of led into, you know, my writing in the book.
[2:47]I was a public school kid.
[2:49]I went to Stuyveson High School.
[2:52]And the other thing too is that I grew up in a world of medicine.
[2:55]So my dad is a doctor.
[2:57]He trained in Korea at Seoul National University College of Medicine.
[3:02]And I spent my childhood sort of with this extended family of doctors who were immigrating
[3:08]to the US from Korea, you know, they sort of melded together and combined, you know, from
[3:13]the same school.
[3:15]So I was exposed really early on to the practical applications of medicine.
[3:20]For example, using whole foods, you know, to recover from surgery, colds, pregnancies,
[3:27]injuries.
[3:28]I mean, these were all practices that were very much embedded into our Korean culture
[3:31]that I actually pretty much ignored, you know, as I was growing up.
[3:35]And it was only until I got sick in Hong Kong that I started really exploring a little
[3:41]bit more about what my heritage was about, what the wisdom was behind my heritage and where
[3:47]I was living.
[3:48]So that was really the start of me writing the book.
[3:52]I got sick.
[3:53]I ended up, I landed in an emergency room.
[3:56]And at the time I was actually launching a dream startup, it was driving a passion for social
[4:02]impact and we were winning all these awards and, you know, gaining these big contracts.
[4:07]And I was working around the clock pretty much 24-7.
[4:11]And you know, I think we all get into these periods where we are driving ourselves, you
[4:15]know, and I think that's fine.
[4:17]But I just think, you know, at the time I was just pushing myself beyond my human capacity,
[4:23]you know, no sleep, not eating, you know, just pretty much running on black coffee because,
[4:28]you know, I was just kind of being driven by all the successes and wanting to make a social
[4:33]impact.
[4:34]So I was just really, I feel like a lot of leaders are just, you know, and I include leaders
[4:38]as, you know, parents who are, you know, running their households like you are serving
[4:43]the mission, your family, you know, the impact of whatever you're driving.
[4:47]your business, you know, your team members.
[4:49]And I think sometimes, well, often I think we just forget to take care of ourselves.
[4:54]And that's probably a course that I should have taken when I went to Harvard Business
[4:58]School.
[4:59]I just, you know, in terms of leadership, that is actually part of self-care is so much
[5:03]a part of that.
[5:04]So in the hospital, you know, I, there was a camera stuck down my throat and into my stomach
[5:10]and I found out later that actually my gut lining was completely compromised.
[5:15]There was no part of it that was really healthy anymore.
[5:18]And, you know, I'd just before the hospital, I'd never really gotten sick.
[5:22]You know, I sort of prided myself on my health.
[5:25]I grew up playing tennis and I realized after the hospital and, you know, getting sick
[5:30]all the time after that, that this was brewing for a really long time.
[5:35]It's just that, you know, at that point that I had to go to the hospital, my body was screaming,
[5:41]you know, for me to do something about it.
[5:43]And I think, you know, I wanted to write the book to prevent others from going into
[5:48]this situation, a very similar situation, because you might actually, it's kind of like
[5:52]an iceberg.
[5:53]You only see what's above the surface, but there's so much happening underneath.
[5:57]And, you know, it's not, and the other thing too is that it's not as hard as we think.
[6:02]You know, I think there's all these wellness protocols and, you know, when I got sick,
[6:05]I tried every diet.
[6:06]I was just really trying to figure out how to get to the root of the cause.
[6:11]I, you know, at the time, there were several things happening.
[6:15]My husband, who grew up in a traditional Chinese household, he started cooking me things,
[6:20]you know, healing foods that he had grown up with, that his parents and his grandparents
[6:24]had taught him.
[6:25]And this is sort of kitchen wisdom that, you know, just was passed down generationally.
[6:29]And it just sort of prompted, you know, a lot of moments in my Korean heritage when my
[6:34]grandparents and my parents did that for me.
[6:36]I just didn't really think about it.
[6:39]And at the same time, because I was in Hong Kong, I started seeing all these people
[6:43]who were just in incredible health.
[6:45]I mean, just like past 50, you know, going every morning into the cold ocean and, you
[6:51]know, just living a lifestyle that was very natural and healthy.
[6:55]And it was just a very normal thing for them.
[6:58]I mean, one morning, I saw a sweet grandmother wielding a huge sword for exercise.
[7:03]And I just started realizing, oh, I'm in this moment of time, living on this continent
[7:08]that's living a different way of life that I, you know, had really, you know, started
[7:13]moving towards us as an American living in the US.
[7:17]And I just started, you know, the whole journey started happening as I was.
[7:22]I started interviewing people, just casually just asking them, you know, what they were
[7:25]doing to stay well.
[7:27]And I was thinking that I was going to take one year to explore.
[7:31]And then it just became so many years as I was just thinking about and seeing all of my friends
[7:36]and these high achieving cultures getting sick, you know, sometimes, you know, in conditions
[7:41]that were irreversible.
[7:43]And I just saw a mirror of myself.
[7:46]So I started training.
[7:47]I actually enrolled myself in two separate functional food medicine programs.
[7:53]And it was confirming, you know, how we used to live is actually being confirmed by
[7:57]the new signs.
[7:59]And I started developing this idea.
[8:01]Well, actually, there might be a better way to move forward, you know, even in our healthcare
[8:06]system where, you know, sometimes I feel like it's food versus medicine.
[8:11]And food is just an example of this way of, you know, all these tiny little things that
[8:14]we can do to take care of ourselves.
[8:17]But food is medicine.
[8:18]We can embrace both to really just empower the individual to, you know, to not get sick.
[8:24]And then, you know, to embrace both the new signs and the old wisdom to, you know, to
[8:28]move forward.
[8:29]And that's really how they live in Asia.
[8:30]And I just wanted to bring that into the world.
[8:33]The other thing, too, is that I wanted to sort of find a way to preserve the wisdom.
[8:38]Because, you know, I went to, you know, different places like I went across Japan, China.
[8:43]I mean, I really dug deep and then kind of went back into my Korean heritage.
[8:47]But, you know, one example was I went into a village of centenarians in Japan.
[8:53]And you know, you just sort of see all of these older people are out living their children
[8:58]because they're retaining the ways that they, you know, grew up with.
[9:03]And the younger population is going into the cities and they're just adopting a lot of
[9:08]these modern conveniences, which is, you know, it's great.
[9:11]I think it's great to take advantage of a lot of the inventions that have occurred in our
[9:16]lifetime.
[9:17]But, you know, to do that in a healthy way.
[9:19]So I wrote the book.
[9:21]That's sort of the long answer, too.
[9:23]That's a good question.
[9:25]No, that was amazing.
[9:27]Thank you for all of that.
[9:28]That's truly amazing.
[9:30]So when you talk about these modern conveniences and everything, I mean, the image of
[9:35]the elderly outliving their kids.
[9:36]That is so sort of haunting when you think about that from a societal perspective and
[9:40]what that means going forward and are we shortening our lifespan and all of that?
[9:44]Like, what can we do?
[9:46]So when, what are some things we are not doing that are easy for us to start doing?
[9:53]Well, one of the major things that I changed was what I put into an empty stomach.
[9:58]So...
[9:59]So...
[10:00]I used to wake up and go straight to a sweet and coffee,
[10:04]and now I understand, you know,
[10:07]and having looked at all the patterns
[10:09]with the traditional diets and what they eat for breakfast,
[10:12]it's a lot about what you put into an empty stomach
[10:15]and helping your body to digest it with certain foods.
[10:19]So I've completely changed my breakfast.
[10:21]And, you know, the whole idea of the book
[10:23]is there's traditional ways of eating,
[10:27]but how do you translate that into, you know,
[10:30]a way that, like, for someone like myself,
[10:32]you know, I live in New York City a lot of the time,
[10:35]you know, and I don't have access to a lot of the ingredients
[10:38]that I might have found in Asia.
[10:39]How do I, you know, translate that to the way I live?
[10:42]So, you know, if I look at the traditional breakfast,
[10:47]it's a lot of little bowls that have plant diverse ingredients,
[10:51]you know, with protein,
[10:53]but it's moving from sweet to savory.
[10:55]That was the huge change for me.
[10:57]It was just, you know, what I was putting,
[10:59]so it was more salt-based.
[11:01]So a lot of times, you know, if I'm really busy,
[11:03]I'll just even eat my leftover dinner.
[11:06]And it's just employing the same type of philosophy
[11:09]that is food is medicine, what I was learning, you know,
[11:12]with the fascinating cultures that I went,
[11:14]I came across.
[11:16]So that would include, so I would,
[11:18]so I start my day with warm water, you know,
[11:21]it's got a little bit of lemon and ginger
[11:24]before I even start taking,
[11:26]and, you know, I still take coffee.
[11:28]I just don't, I and I still sometimes have it with,
[11:31]you know, sugar and milk, but I think it's just what you do
[11:34]on a accumulated basis that starts,
[11:36]you're starting to see the effects in your body.
[11:38]So the leftover breakfast will have something like a, you know,
[11:43]I might have a steak or, you know, a fish that's leftover
[11:45]and it will have a vegetable and a probiotic rich food,
[11:49]which could be like a jar of sauerkraut,
[11:52]which I realized is actually the same as kimchi.
[11:54]It's just a non-chilly version of it.
[11:57]So it's just kind of little things like that
[11:59]that I've actually helped me to curb my cravings
[12:04]and, you know, sort of my weight and my glucose spikes.
[12:08]So it's really helped me to energize my mornings.
[12:11]Mm-hmm.
[12:12]Wow, okay.
[12:13]So what about lifestyle changes in general?
[12:18]Like, how did I know food is a huge focus here
[12:21]in incorporating food as medicine and all of that?
[12:24]What about movement and all of this?
[12:26]And I know some of this is intuitive,
[12:29]but still, what did you see there that we can apply here?
[12:32]So I learned that you can actually release internal medicines
[12:36]by sweating and moving.
[12:38]So what I personally do is I do hot yoga in the morning
[12:42]just for 30 minutes and I'm sweating right away.
[12:45]And then the only other thing I do is just make sure
[12:47]that I get steps in.
[12:48]This has actually been the best form of exercise for me.
[12:52]I mean, whether it's like cleaning the house,
[12:55]you know, I'm just getting my steps in no matter what.
[12:58]And, you know, everyone has their magic number.
[13:00]Walking is, and walking outdoors is actually
[13:04]a key factor in longevity in Asia.
[13:06]And there's a hub of longevity.
[13:09]If you look at the data, you know,
[13:10]obesity rates are down to the single digits.
[13:13]You know, we're constantly battling, you know,
[13:16]for, you know, the top longevity rates
[13:18]and, you know, the United Nations data.
[13:20]But walking is definitely a singular factor
[13:23]that has really kept their, you know,
[13:25]population flowing longer.
[13:27]Stanford actually did a study, you know,
[13:30]looking at the dominoers and Apple watches
[13:33]and the number of steps and, you know,
[13:34]found that Hong Kongers take about 7,000 steps a day.
[13:38]And they really do contribute that to longevity.
[13:41]I take a little bit more steps every day,
[13:44]but it's really beyond running, beyond anything,
[13:47]any other exercise walking has been the best thing.
[13:50]And it's free.
[13:51]And something I can do, you know, just getting off,
[13:54]you know, the train stop early
[13:56]or taking the stairs instead of an elevator.
[13:58]It's just kind of thinking of ways to put the steps in.
[14:02]Well, you could have easily just left everything
[14:04]you learned for yourself or your family and friends.
[14:07]Like, why devote yourself to helping everybody?
[14:13]Why write the book?
[14:14]Why spread the word?
[14:16]What is it about you that makes you want to help in that way?
[14:19]I think that it was saddening me that, you know,
[14:22]I felt like this wisdom was fading, you know, it was just,
[14:26]and, you know, I'm a perfect example, right?
[14:29]I grew up with it with little bits of it, you know,
[14:31]and it's, you also grew up with it as well.
[14:34]I'm sure everybody has it within their culture,
[14:36]you know, what their grandmother taught them,
[14:38]but it's just kind of reminding people
[14:41]that there is this wisdom that shouldn't be retained,
[14:43]you know, I was speaking to the chef of Kripalu
[14:46]and he was saying, you know,
[14:48]he was talking about approving Peruvian lady
[14:51]who came to his cooking class and just, you know,
[14:54]she was just sort of really sad
[14:56]that she was sort of the last battalion
[14:59]keeping this whole idea of what was kept, you know,
[15:03]generationally, you know, it would have been left,
[15:06]you know, it would just would have been gone after her.
[15:08]And so I wanted to find a way to preserve that.
[15:11]But also, I think the other thing too is just, you know,
[15:14]being part of a conversation to shift
[15:17]how we think about our well-being philosophies.
[15:19]And, you know, when we start thinking about, you know,
[15:22]the ways we used to live,
[15:23]it was much more in season environmentally friendly,
[15:26]you know, there's staggering statistics
[15:28]by the World Health Organization, like 70% of our chronic illnesses
[15:33]that lead to, you know, fatality are preventable.
[15:37]And I think, you know, those are things that are, you know,
[15:39]within our power to control.
[15:41]The other thing too is that, you know,
[15:43]I was just thinking Americans, for example,
[15:46]only focus on basically three crops,
[15:49]wheat, rice, and corn,
[15:50]but there's over 300,000 plants that are edible.
[15:54]And they're kind of really hidden, you know,
[15:56]within the condiments and, you know,
[15:58]the different plates that you might see in Asian cuisine.
[16:00]But I think it's just an opportunity for us to explore
[16:03]how can we live better in this on this planet, you know,
[16:07]as we're facing a lot of, you know,
[16:10]issues with climate change, with food waste, you know,
[16:13]and, you know, going to food waste,
[16:15]we, you know, 30% of what we produce is actually wasted
[16:19]and 50% of that happens within our home.
[16:22]So just kind of thinking about how we can employ
[16:25]the whole plant from flour to root and the peel
[16:29]and how we used to use it.
[16:31]Because, you know, a long time ago,
[16:33]we would grow things that would take a long time.
[16:35]We're so far away from that,
[16:36]because, you know, we just see the package good.
[16:39]But, you know, a long time ago,
[16:40]it would take a really long time to grow something.
[16:43]So you would try to treasure it and use every part of it.
[16:46]You know, whether it's like making a soup or tea
[16:49]and definitely not throwing away the peel,
[16:52]which is actually the source of most of the nutrients
[16:55]in the plant.
[16:58]So do you just walk around horrified like watching
[17:00]what everybody does and want to yell out
[17:02]and be like, stop, don't do that.
[17:05]No, I think that, you know,
[17:08]even just my experiences with my own children,
[17:11]I feel like everyone starts where they are coming from.
[17:14]And even for myself, you know,
[17:15]I'm definitely not perfect.
[17:17]But I just feel like, you know,
[17:19]there's always a place and a time to, you know,
[17:21]to reset.
[17:22]And it's just kind of being part of that conversation
[17:25]to help educate people to learn how to reset
[17:29]when they're kind of in a place where, you know,
[17:31]they're busy or, you know, they're feeling run down
[17:34]and kind of feeling better.
[17:35]I feel like, you know, in this journey,
[17:38]what kind of did it for me was,
[17:40]you hear about these remarkable recoveries.
[17:42]You know, one of the doctors that endorsed my book,
[17:46]she actually reversed her progressive multiple sclerosis.
[17:50]And, you know, you hear about these remarkable stories
[17:53]and I saw them with my own eyes, you know,
[17:55]what they were doing.
[17:56]And so it was just really, you know, powerful for me
[17:59]and just kind of a reminder that this is really important
[18:02]and I wanted to share that with the book.
[18:04]And how have you kept up with your other life and job
[18:08]and all of that are you still doing
[18:10]all of the social impact work is as well?
[18:13]Like, or has this?
[18:14]Absolutely, I'm very famous.
[18:16]I think this, the lesson learned here is that you can do it.
[18:19]You just don't have to do it so fast.
[18:22]You know, you can, my views of aging
[18:25]have actually really changed a lot.
[18:27]I feel like I tried to race so fast to try to, you know,
[18:32]achieve everything before 50, you know,
[18:34]just sort of mentally sort of clock that number.
[18:38]And, you know, I'm seeing people changing, you know, jobs,
[18:42]you know, changing their vision of who they are,
[18:44]you know, learning different things
[18:45]because they're curious about it well past 50.
[18:48]And then even just like living really strong,
[18:51]like I went to go visit and explore free divers
[18:54]on this island called Cheju in Korea.
[18:58]And, you know, these are women who are diving
[19:01]without equipment all the way through their 90s.
[19:03]You know, they're, they're fighting on to listen.
[19:06]And jellyfish and, you know, going into the cold waters,
[19:09]you know, most of the year.
[19:11]And it just kind of gives you an idea,
[19:13]oh, I can actually do that if I start taking care of myself
[19:16]and it doesn't have to be so overwhelming.
[19:19]They're, you know, living in cultures where, you know,
[19:21]employing things that are like well before we invented
[19:24]microscopes, you know, it's just really, you know,
[19:26]kind of isolated cultures,
[19:28]but they're, they're achieving these amazing things
[19:31]that, you know, you don't kind of think that you can do.
[19:34]And I think I've just,
[19:36]I've just transformed the way that I, you know,
[19:39]think about what I could do.
[19:40]So one thing that I do is that I don't stop what I'm doing.
[19:45]I feel like I can achieve it all if I,
[19:47]but it's just, you know, a matter of time.
[19:49]You know, just like we all have our dreams
[19:51]and we all have like our wishes of what we want to achieve
[19:53]in life.
[19:54]But now I understand, I just have so much more time
[19:57]if I learn to take care of myself.
[19:59]So, you know, in my day.
[20:00]say, my days are busy, but now I do small things like,
[20:04]I know that I breathe for, you know,
[20:07]I think that one of the big things is that I was just
[20:10]shallow breathing and, you know, watching these divers,
[20:14]I realized, you know, I wasn't breathing.
[20:16]I wasn't deep breathing.
[20:17]So even just, you know, standing on a post line
[20:19]or, you know, taking a break from the computer
[20:22]because I'm often at my computer,
[20:25]I will just take a little deep breath for a minute.
[20:28]And I just feel everything relax.
[20:30]And, you know, that's actually what your body needs to reset.
[20:34]But I still want to do it all.
[20:36]It's just trying to employ all these tiny little steps
[20:39]in your day to try to, you know,
[20:41]keep your body functioning better.
[20:43]And we're moms at the same school.
[20:45]So how do you impart this wisdom to kids
[20:48]in a way that they will accept it and adopt it?
[20:51]I think, so one of the funny things that happened
[20:54]during my journey is that I took my kids
[20:57]to some of the trips.
[20:58]And, you know, there's such city kids.
[21:00]So my son, for example, was just like,
[21:03]I took him out into the country and he was like,
[21:05]oh my, what is that?
[21:06]And it was a squirrel.
[21:07]He had no idea what nature was.
[21:11]I mean, Hong Kong and New York are both very urban,
[21:14]you know, but I have never really taken him out,
[21:16]even though I, you know, I take walks, you know, both cities.
[21:20]And, you know, one time we were in Bali,
[21:22]you know, he was in the middle of a jungle.
[21:24]And he just, you know, and it just reminded me,
[21:27]I need to get them outside.
[21:30]I need to get them out in nature.
[21:32]They also learned by example.
[21:33]So they've, you know, they've come with me to create new classes.
[21:36]I experiment with different ingredients.
[21:38]You know, I come back from the,
[21:40]from the supermarket and I'll come back
[21:42]with something really, really foreign
[21:43]and we'll try it together.
[21:44]You know, it's just one small way to kind of bring nature in
[21:48]and to think about, you know,
[21:50]what else is out there on our planet.
[21:52]And, you know, the other thing too is I think they see
[21:55]what I'm doing.
[21:56]They see what I'm talking about.
[21:57]And you're sort of the first teacher with your children,
[22:00]you know, they will see what you're doing and they'll copy it.
[22:03]They'll use it as a model as they start growing and developing.
[22:06]So I think that was a big part of it.
[22:08]My son in particular, you know, he is an athlete.
[22:11]So he very much uses all the sun and so got methods, you know,
[22:15]and so that was actually reassuring that he could,
[22:18]and I've never seen him stronger.
[22:20]He does wrestling and, you know, volleyball.
[22:23]He's very athletic.
[22:24]And so I feel like it's not, you know,
[22:27]son and so got the, it delves into the food
[22:30]as medicine philosophy, but it's not really about
[22:33]issuing all the things that we're, you know,
[22:36]that is about modern science.
[22:38]So I kind of encourage him to experiment.
[22:41]We talk about it and we have a lot of conversations
[22:43]about what it means to be healthy, mind spirit and body.
[22:47]Wow.
[22:48]My gosh, I love that.
[22:49]So where are you going to take all of this?
[22:50]You have the book.
[22:51]What are, I mean, I feel like you can experience anything
[22:54]you put your mind to.
[22:55]Where do you want to take this?
[22:57]Well, I have a lot of ideas.
[22:59]You know, I think when you're just curious,
[23:02]you start really expanding.
[23:04]But right now I'm focused on the book.
[23:06]I'm launching in the US and because my second home
[23:08]is in Hong Kong, I'm also launching in Hong Kong as well.
[23:11]So that should be really interesting.
[23:13]I have a lot of talks.
[23:15]I've been invited to Google and other organizations
[23:17]to spread the word.
[23:18]So that's been really exciting for me.
[23:21]And we'll see where this goes.
[23:24]It's like Hugh Zippy, you know, you've just really
[23:26]expanded from one idea to this amazing enterprise, you know?
[23:30]So you just kind of, you know, I feel like, you know,
[23:33]the one big lesson is just really,
[23:36]I don't have to rush to do it all.
[23:38]I just need to take care of myself.
[23:40]And then, you know, it'll naturally unfold.
[23:42]You're making me feel so much better, by the way.
[23:45]I don't know.
[23:47]I feel like, you know, that I'm,
[23:49]I mean, I'm not almost 50.
[23:50]I'm 48, but it's out there.
[23:52]And so every day I feel like what you exactly
[23:55]what you were saying.
[23:56]Like I feel like there's some sort of cut off coming
[24:00]or something, even though I know that's not you.
[24:02]Yeah.
[24:03]But I am very aware of my age all the time now.
[24:06]And just the idea of taking a breath and saying, you know,
[24:10]if we play our cards right, maybe there's no ticking clock
[24:13]because the ticking clock is what motivates me
[24:16]in so many ways.
[24:17]But, you know, even taking the breath so great.
[24:21]Exactly.
[24:22]And, you know, I feel like everything matters in self-care.
[24:25]You know, it's like taking the, my son takes a bath
[24:28]after school every day to, you know, de-stress.
[24:32]I feel like it all matters.
[24:33]Like calling your friend, having a nourishing conversation,
[24:36]you know, it just, it's all part of the self-care routine.
[24:40]And it's not, you know, it doesn't have to be difficult
[24:43]because it's not.
[24:44]I feel like, and it doesn't have to be expensive either.
[24:47]You know, these, I watched, you know, one morning in China.
[24:50]This, like, amazing group of, like, it was like,
[24:54]the public park was flooded with all of these older people
[24:58]just gathering socially.
[24:59]Like there was a corner for flamingo dancing.
[25:02]There was another one, you know, playing badminton.
[25:04]Like the entire park was doing something together.
[25:07]And then they all went together to go shopping
[25:10]at the green market.
[25:11]It was just, it was so fascinating.
[25:13]But it just kind of gave them purpose.
[25:15]They were doing it together.
[25:16]And, you know, in Asia,
[25:17]communities, very much a part of it.
[25:19]I think wellness is very much cemented when, you know,
[25:22]you start integrating other people into the activity.
[25:26]Like, sometimes I'm just like, wow, I'm doing everything wrong.
[25:29]No, we all can learn.
[25:31]I mean, just try to improve every day.
[25:34]I'm always learning something new
[25:35]that I'm trying to incorporate.
[25:36]And, you know, I think we're all very personal too.
[25:39]So it's really what matters and, you know, works for you.
[25:42]Well, I'm so impressed by you.
[25:44]So happy that you've decided
[25:46]to put that huge brand of yours at work
[25:48]to help the rest of us.
[25:49]So thank you for that.
[25:50]And I'm so delighted to have had the chance
[25:52]to learn directly from you and hear
[25:56]and be the beneficiary of just all the research and time
[25:59]and energy spent figuring out how to live
[26:02]out of your long group.
[26:04]More satisfying, more present life.
[26:06]So wow, what a gift.
[26:09]I am so excited that we have this conversation.
[26:11]I mean, you know, if you want to have a podcast,
[26:14]you want to be on Zippy Owens.
[26:16]You know, so it's such an honor to be here.
[26:18]Thank you so much.
[26:19]Thank you.
[26:20]Thanks so much.
[26:21]Thanks a lot of time.
[26:22]All right, thank you, Michelle.
[26:24]This was awesome.
[26:27]All right, bye-bye, thanks.
[26:29]Thank you for listening to Totally Booked with Zippy.
[26:31]Formerly, mom's don't have time to read books.
[26:34]If you loved the show, tell a friend, leave a review,
[26:37]follow me on Instagram at Zippy Owens
[26:40]and spread the word.
[26:41]Thanks so much.
[26:42]Oh, and bye the books.