Vicky Nguyen, BOAT BABY: A Memoir
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[0:44]Vicky Noyen is the author of Boat Baby, a memoir.
[0:48]Vicky is an NBC News senior consumer investigative correspondent and anchor of NBC News Daily.
[0:54]She reports for the today show, Nightly News was Lester Holt and NBC News now.
[0:59]She graduated as valedictorian from the University of San Francisco.
[1:02]Vicky lives in New York with her husband and three daughters, her parents are always nearby.
[1:07]Hi, Vicky.
[1:08]Thank you so much for coming on Totally Book to Zibi to talk about Boat Baby, your amazing
[1:13]memoir, congratulations.
[1:14]Thank you so much for having me on The World to Do with You.
[1:17]Uh-oh.
[1:18]First of all, let me just say I love how you wrote it.
[1:20]Your voice is approachable and easy, like you just want to be your friend reading this
[1:25]book.
[1:26]You're sitting down and telling us the story, and it's just great.
[1:30]Like you just don't want to stop having the conversation.
[1:32]So thank you for that.
[1:33]Thank you for that because I don't know how to write in any other way than to try to
[1:37]be conversational.
[1:39]And I am so glad that that came across and that you feel like you know me.
[1:43]And I hopefully that you could relate to some of the things that I experienced.
[1:47]And some of the early feedback on getting is, you know, one of the most meaningful pieces
[1:51]of feedback I got is from someone who is 10 years older than me, a colleague of mine here
[1:56]at NBC News, that I only know via email.
[1:59]I literally we just kind of have to email back and forth about things.
[2:03]And she read the book and said, as a 57 year old black woman who grew up in New York,
[2:10]I could relate to so many of the things you wrote about number one.
[2:13]I didn't know she was black.
[2:14]Number two, I didn't know she was like a native New Yorker from the East Coast.
[2:17]And here she is saying that she can relate to all these things that I went through as
[2:21]a little Vietnamese refugee girl living on the West Coast.
[2:24]So that really warmed my heart because that's what I'm looking for in this book.
[2:28]And I think that's what we look for when we read memoirs is some sort of connection,
[2:32]a reminder of our shared humanity.
[2:34]Totally.
[2:35]I totally agree.
[2:36]Well, it's true because you span everything from how to navigate marriage and kids today
[2:41]and careers and like, how do you make decisions with a partner?
[2:45]And how do you balance like your own personal goals and longings with the quality of life
[2:50]and all of that that you had?
[2:52]But then, of course, you take us through all of the things with your family, which were
[2:56]amazing in their own right and sometimes devastating.
[2:59]Your uncle, that whole thing.
[3:02]Can you talk about that?
[3:03]I don't want to like give things away, so to speak.
[3:04]But in the book, you write about everybody coming together and your mom having such
[3:10]responsibility for her brothers and one of them getting like tragically murdered at a party.
[3:15]And then you found his murder, like was your waiter.
[3:19]I mean, this is crazy.
[3:20]You can't make this up.
[3:22]You can't make it up.
[3:23]And I think it really speaks to one of the themes in the book, which is a way that my parents
[3:28]have showed me to live life, not so much the words, but through their actions, which
[3:33]is you control the things that you can control.
[3:37]You can control your reaction.
[3:38]You can control the amount of work you put into something, how you bounce back from things,
[3:42]how you are resilient, how you see the world.
[3:45]You can't control the things that will happen to you.
[3:48]So don't spend your energy worrying and fretting about all the what ifs, work on what
[3:54]you can, focus on what you can control.
[3:56]And so the chapter and the incident that you're referring to, my mom brought her two younger
[4:02]brothers here, one our whole family escape from Vietnam.
[4:05]And it was the 80s we were living in Eugene, Oregon, where some really generous people
[4:10]sponsored our family.
[4:11]And my uncle was a really good looking guy in his early 20s, and he really assimilated
[4:16]pretty quickly.
[4:17]It's a life in America in the 80s and people were very welcoming.
[4:21]And he happened to be in a party where things got out of control and he got into an argument
[4:25]with someone.
[4:26]And that person stabbed him to death.
[4:28]And so my parents were devastated, obviously, that led them to leave Eugene, Oregon.
[4:34]But it would be years later.
[4:37]And my mom would hear from her friends in Oregon that the murderer who had only served a
[4:42]couple of years from manslaughter in the murder of my uncle had gone on to kill his ex-wife
[4:48]in front of their two children.
[4:50]It was such a high profile case that John Walsh from America's most wanted featured that
[4:56]murder.
[4:57]And he was a fugitive on the run.
[4:59]My mom was just horrified that this person was out of prison and had gone on to kill someone
[5:04]else.
[5:05]She was thinking, what can I do?
[5:07]How can I help?
[5:08]I can put up a reward to try to catch this person before she could even discuss that with
[5:12]my dad.
[5:13]They were in San Jose with me.
[5:15]We were sitting on a restaurant.
[5:17]The name was freedom as a name of the restaurant.
[5:20]And they're about to order.
[5:22]They look up and it's unmistakable.
[5:24]It is the killer.
[5:26]Immediately they look at each other.
[5:28]My dad leaves the restaurant to call 911 on a payphone because this is like the 90s.
[5:33]And he flags down some police cars that are driving by.
[5:36]And he's like, I have just seen a man who is wanted for murder.
[5:41]He's a fugitive.
[5:43]Please come to this restaurant.
[5:44]Please come inside and help me.
[5:46]And it turned out it was him.
[5:48]And there was such a series of fateful events because my parents could have picked any
[5:51]restaurant to be in in San Jose on that day.
[5:54]They could have, and that guy was hired like very recently.
[5:58]He had only been on the job for like maybe a couple of weeks.
[6:01]It was supposed to be in the back, you know, washing dishes.
[6:03]He was not a server, but the server had called in sick that day.
[6:06]So that's the only reason he was in the dining room taking orders.
[6:10]He didn't remember my parents, but my parents would never forget his face.
[6:14]So that resulted in his capture.
[6:17]America's most wanted came back.
[6:18]I didn't write about this in the book, but they came back and interviewed my parents and
[6:21]did a whole follow up on the capture of this fugitive.
[6:24]So my mom just felt like fate had a hand in that, that my uncle somehow, you know, helped
[6:30]guide her so that she could capture this guy who had gone on to kill his ex wife, the
[6:35]mother of his two children.
[6:37]And so like my parents have always believed in fate and destiny and just focusing on the
[6:41]things that you can control and just doing the best that you can.
[6:44]And that is just one example I think of how you can explain how some of these circumstances
[6:50]in life will work out.
[6:51]You can only connect the dots later on, but I was really, really grateful that my parents
[6:56]had a hand in putting him behind bars.
[6:58]Oh my gosh.
[6:59]That story gave me goosebumps unbelievable.
[7:02]You know, there's another moment when they are escaping from Vietnam and they have this
[7:07]incident where they can't find the boat, they had gotten off the boat, they were going through
[7:11]the forest, the person who was leading them disappeared.
[7:13]And I feel like this is such a good, you know, symbolic thing that happens.
[7:18]They can't find their way.
[7:19]They start feeling afraid.
[7:21]They decide to wait until the next day when it's light out as a team, they all like
[7:24]kept watch.
[7:25]And then once the light came out, someone was able to like, show me up a tree, get a
[7:29]bigger view and they could find their way.
[7:31]And I feel like that is something that the whole book is trying to do, right?
[7:35]That we're, we're just like elevating to get a better view or figuring out ways to get
[7:40]through situations that might feel impossible at the time and yet with distance and new
[7:46]perspective, you can conquer sort of everything.
[7:49]Yes, that is beautiful Zibi.
[7:51]I love that connection that you just made because sometimes in that moment, it can feel
[7:55]desperate and hopeless, but then the next day the sun comes up.
[8:00]You wake up.
[8:01]You're still there.
[8:02]You're still breathing.
[8:03]You're still alive.
[8:04]And you get a new perspective and you get another crack at whatever the challenges that
[8:09]you're trying to solve.
[8:10]And I love that you like mentioned that.
[8:12]I didn't think of it that way.
[8:14]That is just what happened.
[8:15]But you're right.
[8:16]That is a big theme in the book too is just the idea that like, don't give up, you
[8:20]know, because things were pretty weak for them.
[8:22]They had just gotten a smuggler to get them almost to the final, the boat that they were
[8:27]supposed to get on to cross the South China Sea to get to a refugee camp.
[8:31]But like somewhere in the middle of the night in the jungle, the smuggler leaves them.
[8:35]And then, you know, at that point, you're like, oh, my God, have we made the biggest mistake
[8:38]of our lives?
[8:39]Like we don't know where we are.
[8:40]And we could be arrested at any moment.
[8:42]And what we're doing is illegal.
[8:44]And it was what we're going to do is what we can do right now.
[8:47]Wait for the sun to rise and then figure out the next steps.
[8:51]And thankfully, they did make it onto the boat just as it was about to leave, unbelievable.
[8:56]I mean, just amazing, really amazing.
[8:58]You also take time in the book to talk about your own career and you're sort of growing
[9:03]up and now you're American and dealing with like being part of that culture and the contrast
[9:10]between home and school and all of those sort of conflicts, if you will.
[9:15]And how through it all, you end up with this determination to do what you're doing now and
[9:21]go all over the place to build your own career and how it's like a symbol for you too of yet
[9:28]another accomplishment that is sort of an homage to your parents.
[9:32]And can I just say that it is like you look back and you're like, oh, wow, well, you're
[9:36]a network correspondent.
[9:37]Now you're at NBC News.
[9:38]You work at 30 Rock.
[9:39]You don't know these things when you are in high school in college, when you're a struggling
[9:45]journalist making $26,000 a year, carrying 30 pounds of equipment in the super humid weather
[9:52]of Orlando.
[9:53]You're not thinking, oh, but someday I'll be at the today's show.
[9:56]You're just thinking, man, this is really hard work and like am I cut out for this?
[10:00]And there are a lot of times where doubt creeps in where you think maybe this was cool for me to do for a year, but now it's time to get a real job. Maybe I need to go into PR. Maybe I need to go into, you know, some
[10:13]Part of go into another job where things are more stable and you're not working nights and weekends and mornings and all these crazy holidays.
[10:20]But I think just getting through the hard things and doing your best and showing up that eventually clears the path for where you're supposed to go.
[10:30]And you can't look too far ahead. Well, I mean in my in my life. I've never been one of those people who's like in five years this in 10 years that I think it's great to have goals.
[10:39]But if it's not clear to you if the path forward is not clear, then just focus on the literal next task at hand and then the path will reveal itself.
[10:48]And I know that's like so crazy, but that's literally how we've always lived our lives. That's really what my parents had to do as people who are refugees escaping.
[10:57]They couldn't have some grand plan. They need to just go, okay, this is the thing we're going to try and then, you know, we'll deal with the next thing as it comes up.
[11:04]But I think that's an okay philosophy for life because it doesn't make you too anxious and too stressed about the unknown life is full of changes life is full of unknown life is full of setbacks.
[11:16]So control the thing that you can, which is the next task, the next assignment, the next job that you need to do.
[11:21]And you do it to the best of your ability and you're amazed at who's watching who might notice.
[11:26]You might say, you know, that biggie. She's always saying yes to, you know, the extra job or the extra little thing.
[11:32]So when this opportunity comes up, we're going to ask her if she wants to try it. And that really has opened a lot of doors for me.
[11:38]Wow. And you write about that too. How you navigate all these different situations and find your way through with this sort of strong moral compass that you have as well.
[11:47]And you have like a mini, a me too moment, you know, in the book.
[11:51]And I was so impressed with your ability to just be like, this is not right. Stuff what you're doing.
[11:56]You know, it was during a time when that was not always the way people were handling everything. Can you just talk about that?
[12:03]First of all, I've got to take a moment to just compliment you because you got this book. I feel like five minutes ago.
[12:09]I do.
[12:10]Somehow you know what better than I do. Like, I'm truly grateful for amazing questions and insightful questions and the nuggets that you're pulling out because I know you didn't have a lot of time to read the book and clearly you read it cover to cover.
[12:23]Okay. So to your point about the Me Too chapter, I mean, I also look back on that and go, what a weird out of body experience.
[12:31]It wasn't like something super dramatic, but it was a coworker who was very handsy, very touchy always was in my personal space.
[12:40]And at some point, I thought, well, let me just tell the chief photographer, hey, this is happening because I see that we're going to be scheduled to work together a lot and I just want to get your take on what's the best way to handle it.
[12:52]It was like, thanks for making me aware, you know, just speak up whatever.
[12:55]And so at one point, you know, this coworker gets too close. He's putting his hand on my lower back leaning over me and I just exploded and I just was like, please don't ever touch me again.
[13:05]And his reaction for me was very telling in that moment. Instead of him being surprised or like, whoa, I don't know what you're talking about or like, sorry, like, he was like, don't flatter yourself.
[13:16]And I just was that just set me off because it was like, we're like, you're, I'm just over this. I'm not going to I'm not doing this anymore.
[13:23]So I just went and talked to the HR department. And because of my reporting as an investigative reporter, I sort of understood and I think people should understand HR is there to protect the company.
[13:35]They want to resolve the issues for the employees, but ultimately their loyalty is to the company. So you have to realize that they have only so much power and they have maybe a different agenda than you would for yourself.
[13:48]So I went into HR and said, hey, listen, this is what happened and I just want to let you know, I just don't want to work with this person anymore.
[13:54]And they were like, oh, we're really sorry, this happened. And we totally understand where you're coming from.
[13:59]The holidays are coming. We're short staffed. We can't guarantee that you won't work with them.
[14:04]And for whatever reason, I was in like my mid 20s and I don't really truly know where this came, but it was just me kind of blurting out what was in my mind, which was, I totally understand that it's busy.
[14:17]I'm just letting you know I'm not going to work with him.
[14:20]And then that was that and then they put out the schedules and they never scheduled me with him again.
[14:26]So I don't know why or where I kind of got that. I just think I was saying out loud what I felt, which was, look, like I'm just not going to work with this guy schedule the schedule, however you're going to do it.
[14:38]I'm just letting you know. And I'm glad I didn't get fired over it. I'm glad they didn't force me to work with him.
[14:45]And just in that moment was like, well, that's my line though, you know, like I get that you have a company to run.
[14:51]But for me, I'm just not going to put myself in a live truck and spend eight to 10 hours with somebody like this again.
[14:59]And I was lucky, I was lucky that that worked out and like that was an instance where I think just being blunt and saying how I felt and going with my guts really worked for me.
[15:08]And through my life going with my gut more often than not has worked for me. And I know that like looking back you're like, well, that's crazy not everyone can do that not everyone can be in a position to be like, well, I'm not going to work with someone.
[15:18]But for whatever reason in my mind, I had already made made up my mind that I just wasn't going to work with him. So either they were going to help me find a solution or I would find a solution.
[15:27]I love that.
[15:28]But it's so good. You just made a line in the stand and you're just like, this is it. This is, no, I'm not willing to do this.
[15:34]Yeah. And it's not.
[15:36]Listen, I was in a position. I guess were I thought I could do that. I mean, no, I, I needed that salary. I needed that job.
[15:42]Yeah.
[15:43]But whatever reason, I was like, but I'm just not going to work with them. I'll do anything else you want me to do. And I have done all the other things.
[15:49]And I think that probably helped. I think when you work hard and you do have a good reputation and you treat people well that if something you that comes up that you need to draw a line in the sand.
[16:00]People are going to want to help you. HR did help me. They did make it so that I didn't have to work with him.
[16:06]I think I had on some of that street cred with my company at that point. So it would have been different maybe if I had been like brand brand new.
[16:15]I was like a single parent working on one income thinking, I can't chance this. I can just report it, but like I'm going to have to just suck it up and deal with it.
[16:24]But I just, you know, in that moment was like I'm this is how I feel. I said how I felt and then it did work out for me in that instance.
[16:32]Because your career trajectory kept sort of going forward and you take us through the interviews and debating whether or not to move to New York from California.
[16:40]And then once you get to New York it's COVID and you're in this like horrific reporting environment and your husband who's an anesthesiologist has to start taking care of COVID patients and you're like oh my gosh.
[16:51]I mean you felt bad enough like having to move your family anyway and then you're like this is not what I signed up for in New York.
[16:57]So how was that and how did you even get, how did you get through that time?
[17:01]I think we were shell shocked. First of all just moving from the West Coast to the East Coast as amazing as New York City is and all of the things that it has to offer.
[17:10]We really did like living in Northern California. We had awesome neighbors. We had great schools. We were super, the weather was awesome. So we were very comfortable there.
[17:19]This was going to be an adventure. And for me obviously I was going to get to work at my dream job. So I kind of felt like I'm going to make this work no matter what.
[17:28]But when the pandemic hit, it was a very surreal time to be a New Yorker or living here. Central Park was empty. Times Square was empty. Zibi you live here. You know it was like New York for New Yorkers.
[17:41]But we weren't getting on the subway and exploring all the places like we thought we were because it was like stay home stay in your pandemic pod do not go out unless it's necessary.
[17:50]So we kind of made the most of you know getting to roam around Central Park and being outside as much as possible.
[17:57]The kids did what they could with remote school. We're really lucky that none of our kids were like having their senior year and missing prom or having their first year of college or some transitional moment.
[18:07]And you know they were just kind of an elementary and middle school. So remote school was not ideal. But all in all we were very lucky that we were healthy that we were safe.
[18:16]We tried to take as many precautions as we could.
[18:19]But that was an insane time to be in New York.
[18:23]It has been worth working at Lennox Hill like you said that hospital which you know was like kind of ground zero. I mean they did like a Netflix show about it actually because of everything that was happening in the city with COVID and people getting very, very sick and people dying from the disease.
[18:39]We were seeing a very up close and personal view of the pandemic that I think few people had because I was also one of the only correspondence really going into 30 rock and sitting with Hoda.
[18:51]Savannah was broadcasting the news from her living room with a makeshift studio. Al Roker was doing forecast from his kitchen on the upper east side.
[19:00]For me as a reporter I was able to at least go and cover the issues that we were all dealing with at the same time. Like how do you get masks? What is a face shield? Do we need to wipe down all our takeout containers and groceries before they come into the house?
[19:15]What do we do about our kids in school to make sure that you know they're actually still getting educated.
[19:20]So luckily for me I was as a consumer investigator reporter I was able to talk to doctors and epidemiologists and public health experts to try to answer the questions that America had but also the questions we were having at home.
[19:33]So from a professional standpoint I felt very much of service. I know that what my husband was doing was very much of service as an essential worker in the medical field.
[19:42]And I think we just took it day by day because it was just like what's the next thing that's coming towards us do the best we can to stay healthy.
[19:49]Of course during that time my dad was going out to like Morton Williams grocery store three times a week and we were like do you really need to get those onions?
[19:56]He'd be like why need this for my meal? So you know for him.
[20:00]COVID was in annoyance. For the rest of us, it was like this life-threatening panic. I think,
[20:04]yeah, looking back on that, it is really wild. What everyone was going through, but we are just
[20:09]very lucky that we had our health and that nobody got seriously ill in our family. And we were able
[20:14]to just kind of like motor on through that. Oh my gosh. And then your dad when he fell and
[20:20]like slash his head on the side of the bed, I feel like you have been through so much. Like
[20:24]everybody just keeps getting stitched back together in various ways throughout the book.
[20:29]That is true. And I think that like we get all relate to that. Like life might sometimes look
[20:33]perfect. And I think in this era of social media where everyone only posts their greatest hits,
[20:38]you're looking at somebody's highlight reel, right? And comparing and despairing because you're
[20:42]like, well, my life, oh, I'm not meeting so and so I'm not going to this dinner. I'm not going on
[20:47]that vacation. But the reality is we're all doing the best that we can. We all have a lot of ups
[20:52]and downs. We all have like those internal family struggles, which I think I tried to let people
[20:59]understand and like give a window into that because the same characteristics that, you know,
[21:04]had my dad taking a big risk to escape Vietnam are kind of the same characteristics that
[21:10]lend you to be a risk taker and might make you more prone to gambling or taking chances with your
[21:17]family's finances. So we go through all of that. And as I'm starting a career in a business that's
[21:22]super volatile, I don't know if I'm going to make it. If I'm going to be able to earn a salary
[21:26]that can support my growing family, but also my parents, you know, and a lot of people in Asian
[21:31]cultures and other cultures can relate because as the kid, you're like your parents 401k, right?
[21:36]Like they already did a lot. They already made all those sacrifices to get you here. Now it's
[21:40]payback time. That's not the relationship I have with my kids, right? Like who were born in America
[21:46]and I'm raising them more like in a Vietnamese-American way, not in a Vietnamese way the way I was raised.
[21:52]So it's really interesting to look at that and hopefully people can understand like for me at the
[21:57]end of the day, family and blood is thicker than water and you're going to get through what you
[22:01]need to get through. And with my dad and I will never go to therapy. We're never going to resolve
[22:06]some of the issues. That's just not going to happen. But that's okay. I accept it. I accept our
[22:13]relationship for what it is. I'm grateful to him for all the things that he has taught me and done
[22:18]for me and continues to help me with today. But is it a perfect relationship? Am I like one of
[22:23]those people who was like, oh my daddy, this and that? No, but that's okay. Like these relationships
[22:29]come in so many different forms and fashions. And I think we all have to realize our parents
[22:35]for the most part did the best that they could. That's what we're doing. We're doing the best that
[22:39]we can for our kids. And you kind of have to let go of some of the past hurts and the
[22:43]resentments and those things because they don't really serve you moving forward.
[22:47]It's not easy to do, but I definitely learned that that compartmentalizing and keeping what serves
[22:55]you and letting go of what doesn't is the best way to sort of move forward and grow. Wow.
[23:00]Well, not surprisingly, this has been so inspiring. It's similar to your book. Thank you so much.
[23:06]And I, yeah, your whole journey and the way you write about it, it's just really great. And
[23:12]thank you for sharing your story. You didn't have to do that. And I really appreciate it.
[23:16]Libby, thank you so much for the interview, the amazing insightful questions. This conversation
[23:21]has meant so much to me. And for including me on your list of anticipated books for this year,
[23:26]means the world to me. And thank you for encouraging everybody to read and to connect and share
[23:32]our stories. I'm so grateful to you. Thank you. That's so nice. Thank you. Thank you for listening to
[23:38]Totally booked with Zibi, formerly momstone have time to read books. If you loved the show,
[23:43]tell a friend, leave a review, follow me on Instagram at Zibi Owens, and spread the word.
[23:49]Thanks so much. Oh, and bye the books.