Annie B. Jones, ORDINARY TIME: Lessons Learned While Staying Put
[0:00]Hi, this is Zibi Owens, and you're listening to Totally Book to Zibi.
[0:06]Formerly, moms don't have time to read books.
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[0:44]Annie B. Jones is the author of Ordinary Time, Lessons Learned While Staying Put.
[0:50]This is also one of my Zibi's book club picks.
[0:53]Annie B. Jones owns the bookshelf bookstore in Thomasville, Georgia, and hosts the book review
[0:59]podcast from the front porch.
[1:01]Hi.
[1:02]Hi.
[1:03]How are you?
[1:04]I'm good.
[1:05]How are you?
[1:06]Good.
[1:07]I love, I love your book, Walt.
[1:08]I love your book, Walt.
[1:09]I feel like actually we are the same person, and the fact that we just showed up on
[1:15]Zoom, like wearing the same outfit and the same background is like no surprise to me.
[1:20]So fun.
[1:21]I love it.
[1:22]You're right.
[1:23]We totally match.
[1:24]This will be fun to see.
[1:25]Oh my gosh.
[1:26]I'm actually going to jump right into the episode, because I am so obsessed with your
[1:33]book, and loved it so much.
[1:36]I love your podcast, your book store, I mean, all of it.
[1:41]And I don't think I've ever related to anyone more than you in Ordinary Time.
[1:46]So congrats.
[1:47]Thank you.
[1:48]Thank you so much.
[1:49]Well, I'm thrilled to be here, and I'm so grateful for all the work you do for indie
[1:53]bookstores and authors like me, and it's a joy to get to talk to you today.
[1:58]Oh, thank you.
[1:59]And by the way, I saw in your Instagram, congratulations.
[2:02]Yes.
[2:03]John's on his way.
[2:04]Thank you.
[2:05]I can't.
[2:06]I can't believe all the things happening in 2025.
[2:10]Oh my goodness.
[2:11]Well, having just finished your book and reading all of your thoughts on motherhood and
[2:16]all of that, like the fact that this is now like the coda is just so perfect.
[2:21]Yeah.
[2:22]Thank you.
[2:23]Okay.
[2:24]Let's back up.
[2:25]Ordinary Time.
[2:26]Lessons learned while staying put.
[2:27]Why don't you tell the snare so that your book is about?
[2:29]Absolutely.
[2:30]So I have lived in or around my hometown, my entire life, you know, the exception of college.
[2:37]And probably 10 to 12 years ago, my husband and I moved to a small town just down the
[2:43]road from my hometown.
[2:46]And I've always loved writing.
[2:47]I've always loved adventure.
[2:49]I've loved books.
[2:50]I've loved travel.
[2:52]And I think I envisioned maybe this is a common millennial problem.
[2:56]I think I envisioned an air quotes bigger life for myself.
[3:02]And I felt like my world was really small.
[3:05]But as I began growing roots in this small town and running and operating the bookstore and
[3:13]developing relationships with people in my neighborhood, people in my community, I realized
[3:18]that, oh, there's actually quite a bit of storytelling in staying, too.
[3:23]And so I've written my whole life journals, you know, written essays, blog posts, whatever.
[3:29]And I finally decided maybe staying is the through line.
[3:33]And so I wanted to write a collection of essays and quiet stories that would be just about
[3:40]ordinary, quiet life.
[3:43]Because I do believe, I really do believe this and I say this in the book, but that's
[3:47]what most of us are doing.
[3:49]I mean, some of us do get the grand big adventures or get to live in big cities.
[3:53]But a lot of us are just chilling out in downtowns and small towns and suburbs.
[3:59]And I think there are stories there, too.
[4:02]And lives worth talking about.
[4:05]And so I wanted to write about that a little bit.
[4:07]That's amazing.
[4:08]Well, the book is structured is linked to essays, essentially.
[4:12]And you take us from your role as a bookstore owner.
[4:17]You take us through your childhood.
[4:18]Will you introduce us to your grandmothers?
[4:20]I mean, we get to see the whole progression of your career and where you are versus where
[4:27]you thought, like you said, I mean, your last chapter, I'm sitting here in New York reading
[4:31]your Ode to New York.
[4:32]Anytime you want to visit, come hang out.
[4:35]We'll have all two all around New York.
[4:37]And I know you've been here, but I love it.
[4:41]One thing that I absolutely loved about the book was all the ways you talk about books
[4:47]and about loving books and what books have done for you.
[4:50]Can I read a little section of it?
[4:52]Is that OK?
[4:53]Yeah, absolutely.
[4:54]And by the way, I wrote a memoir called Bookends and I feel like you might like it.
[4:58]OK.
[4:59]It's very similar.
[5:00]It's very similar.
[5:01]You'll see a lot of parallels between us and our love of reading, whatever.
[5:05]Anyway, I don't normally talk about it, but here's what you said about books, although
[5:09]I really could have accepted the entire thing.
[5:11]But over the years, I have gotten lost in thrillers set on hijacked airplanes, become
[5:15]an honorary daughter to large dysfunctional families with memorable matriarchs, rolled
[5:20]my eyes at countless east coast, blue bloods, and badly behaving rich people, fallen in
[5:24]love with rom coms, nor effron would envy or at least appreciate.
[5:28]I have revisited the classics of my childhood, including little women, but also bloomability
[5:32]and the babysitters club, Emily of New Moon and the works of John Bauer.
[5:36]I have discovered a love of poetry.
[5:38]Thank you, Kate Bear.
[5:39]She's so great and encountered modern American novelist, so I believe deserve a place in the
[5:43]canon.
[5:44]You keep going.
[5:45]And then you say, I've left my reading chair, a gog, and hung over from prose.
[5:49]I wish I could call my own books, fill me up, quiet fills me up.
[5:53]My home fills me up.
[5:54]I read books because yes, by some twist of fate and active serendipity, it is my job.
[5:59]I read books because at their best, they make me better, more empathetic, more socially
[6:03]aware, more in tune to the stranger beside me.
[6:06]They help me imagine a better future, provide answers to my insatiable questions, take
[6:10]me to places I'll never get to go.
[6:12]I read books because they are an easy point of entry to relationship.
[6:15]They spark conversations and make me an enjoyable dinner companion.
[6:19]I hope folks eliminate my awkwardness, awaken my expertise, and move me forward when I want
[6:24]to stay put.
[6:25]I read books because they fill up my depleted soul and give me renewed energy for a life
[6:30]spent outside the walls of my home and the safe pages of the novels I love.
[6:34]And then you write a few more beautiful paragraphs and by saying books, bring me back
[6:38]to myself.
[6:39]It's so true.
[6:40]It's so true.
[6:41]It's so true.
[6:42]It's so true.
[6:43]Talk about your love of reading and all that.
[6:47]So I've loved to read my whole life.
[6:50]I mean, truly, I have very few memories of not reading.
[6:54]My mother likes to tell a story of how she sat down to read an American girl book to
[6:59]me and she was reading before bed when I and she fell asleep.
[7:05]And when she, you know, startled awake, I was already done with the book.
[7:09]I devour words.
[7:12]In fact, sometimes I have to kind of retrain my brain to read a little more slowly so
[7:17]that I don't just completely binge books away.
[7:21]But I think when I sat down to finally fully express my love of reading, I wanted people
[7:28]to know reading isn't just a way to hold up, which certainly for me, I love sitting
[7:34]in my reading chair.
[7:35]It's, I'm highly introverted.
[7:37]It's a way to recharge.
[7:40]It's a way to decompress.
[7:42]But the more I thought about it, the more I realized that recharge piece is key.
[7:49]Reading in my chair at home or reading on an airplane or reading outside by my pool, it
[7:56]enables me to go be a bookseller, not just logistically because now I've got a book that
[8:02]I want to talk about, but also it rejuvenates me.
[8:07]Books aren't just about escapism, although I think a lot of us do love escaping into
[8:11]literature, but it's also better preparing me reading and good books, better prepare me
[8:17]for a life lived outside my comfy cozy chair.
[8:21]And that's one of the things I wanted to articulate because I love hiding away in my
[8:26]house and getting lost in a world of words.
[8:31]But ultimately I hope what reading does for me is enable me to go be a better friend, better
[8:38]daughter, better wife, maybe one day a better mother.
[8:42]And so books, I hope empower me and recharge me and rejuvenate me.
[8:48]I think in the book, maybe I talk about how books are like a flashlight.
[8:52]They help you move forward.
[8:54]And I am inclined.
[8:55]I mean, the whole book is about staying put.
[8:56]I'm inclined to stay put.
[8:58]And so books help me get the gumption I need maybe to move forward.
[9:03]I love that.
[9:04]And I love in the book you say, your people might not know that you're an introvert,
[9:08]but you are.
[9:09]I'm like the exact same way, like I would prefer never to leave my house, but we can have
[9:15]introvert.
[9:16]You can be introverts and have extroverted qualities where you connect to people.
[9:19]But like having the books is the through line and the conversation starter and all that
[9:24]can be so helpful and so important.
[9:26]Yeah.
[9:27]Like I said, it kind of takes away my awkwardness.
[9:30]And I certainly have noticed my husband has even commented on it.
[9:33]He's highly extroverted.
[9:35]And you know, we would go out to dinners or things.
[9:37]And I would, oh gosh, I would just hate, you know, sitting at a round table at a banquet
[9:41]or something with strangers that you don't know.
[9:44]There's very few things more awkward to me happy hour maybe.
[9:48]And so I would sit at these tables and I would feel so uncomfortable, but Jordan made the
[9:52]comment.
[9:53]My husband made the comment since the bookstore.
[9:56]I'm not, you know, maybe I'm a little awkward, but I can eat.
[10:00]It's a really engaging conversation, and I think it's because books are a common thing
[10:05]to talk about.
[10:06]Bookstores are a common thing to talk about.
[10:08]You can actually really connect with people through what you've read most recently.
[10:13]And so that has been a perk I didn't really anticipate.
[10:18]I couldn't agree more.
[10:20]Talk about the bookstores.
[10:22]So in your book, you talked about how the, sort of the serendipity and how you ended up
[10:28]applying it just to work in the store, and you found that email and read it back,
[10:32]and now you own the store and have for many years tell us about that journey.
[10:37]I was a writer and journalist, I was a journalism major, and so I was a writer and editor
[10:41]for a legal publication in my hometown of Tallahassee, Florida.
[10:46]And a bookstore opened near my home, and that was pretty unusual.
[10:50]Tallahassee is a wonderful place.
[10:53]I love Tallahassee, but it's not the most walkable.
[10:56]And literally this bookstore opened up two blocks from our house, and I could walk to it,
[11:01]and it felt like something out of a movie.
[11:04]It felt like I was finally getting to live my, my big city dreams in Tallahassee.
[11:09]And I was so excited to see it kind of in my hometown that I emailed the owner, and
[11:16]I said, hey, if you ever need any help, I was picturing story time, lady, shellver of
[11:22]books, just anything.
[11:23]I was willing to do volunteer, whatever she needed.
[11:26]And a couple months later, she was very kind.
[11:28]She wrote me back a couple months later, they were looking for a manager.
[11:31]And because I grew up in Tallahassee, it was just the capital city of Florida, I'd never
[11:35]worked retail.
[11:36]Even in high school, my jobs were state government jobs.
[11:39]Like my summer job was like being a male girl for one of the downtown buildings.
[11:43]And so retail was totally new to me.
[11:47]And I had this job that I really liked that I, that utilized my degree, which felt unheard
[11:53]of at that time, maybe still.
[11:56]But I decided to do it and managed that store for about a year before the owner decided
[12:02]she wanted to focus on the flagship store, which was in nearby Thomasville, Georgia.
[12:07]And she offered me the chance to own it.
[12:11]And my husband and I are not risk takers.
[12:14]We do not necessarily come from what I would call entrepreneurial backgrounds.
[12:18]And so it was a lot of thought and prayer and pros and cons lists before we finally decided,
[12:25]okay, let's do this.
[12:26]And the previous owner of the store graciously allowed and created this plan where I would
[12:33]earn the store through sweat equity, which was slightly more appealing to my risk of
[12:38]our spring.
[12:39]So I earned the store by working in the store and kind of an old test.
[12:45]Because what I felt like, but I loved earning the store in that way.
[12:49]I felt like I was proving myself to Thomasville.
[12:52]I'm not from Thomasville originally.
[12:53]So I felt like I had to prove myself a little bit.
[12:56]And even though I know I've said this before owning and running and operating the bookstore
[13:01]is the hardest I've ever worked in my whole life.
[13:04]It is just a labor of love, but there is still true magic to it.
[13:10]I mean, I don't work on the floor as much as I used to.
[13:13]I'm often upstairs paying bills for working on the podcast or what have you.
[13:17]But anytime I get to open a box of books or show books or work on a Saturday and read
[13:24]to kids, I mean, it's exactly what I dreamed it could be.
[13:29]And it's just a real privilege to get to to run this landmark store.
[13:33]The store is existed for 40 years.
[13:35]And so I've been there for 12.
[13:38]And so to get to play a small part in her history is one of the greatest privileges of my
[13:43]life.
[13:44]That is so beautiful.
[13:45]I love that.
[13:46]You also have this really interesting essay, which touches on something people don't
[13:51]talk about that much, which is the connections you have to the people you work with and
[13:55]how it feels with that unique set, that unique feeling of grief when you lose quote
[14:01]unquote a colleague when they move on and you've been in the trenches together and how
[14:05]you've stayed another example of your staying, which I love is the through line for connecting
[14:10]all these stories and how you've stayed, but they've gone on and some stayed.
[14:14]But tell me about that because they are and you say, you know, it's not your, your
[14:20]colleagues are not your family and you get it in the whole Instagram thing, whatever.
[14:23]And yet there is a huge connection.
[14:26]So tell me more about that, especially small business.
[14:29]I mean, as I say, it has gone totally out of fashion and rightfully so to call your colleagues
[14:33]your family.
[14:34]But it also feels odd to keep calling people colleagues when we really are, you've worded
[14:39]it perfectly.
[14:40]We're in the trenches together.
[14:41]I mean, small business, you are cleaning toilets together, you are dusting shelves.
[14:45]You are dealing with sometimes less than pleasant customers.
[14:49]And so you really form a bond and it had not occurred to me.
[14:54]When I took over the store, I think we were a team of two or three people including me.
[15:00]And until maybe a few years in, like seven, seven or eight years in, it didn't occur
[15:07]to me that I would be the person who stayed while other people left.
[15:12]I don't know why that didn't occur to me.
[15:14]I watch a lot of TV and pop culture and I guess I thought it was like Sam Malone and
[15:19]Cheers and everybody just hangs out together all the time.
[15:23]And life is not like an episode of Cheers.
[15:26]And so it took me a while to realize, oh, if I do my job well and hopefully I foster creativity
[15:35]and professionalism and hopefully the bookshelf gives our staffers the skills they need
[15:42]to move on to their next thing.
[15:45]That means they're going to move on to their next thing.
[15:49]And I have never stayed at a job this long.
[15:54]I have worked since I was 15, I love working, but certainly the bookshelf is my longest
[16:00]tenured position.
[16:01]And so to look around and know, oh, not everybody who works here is going to stay
[16:09]put in the way I have.
[16:11]And in fact, sometimes it is better for them to move on.
[16:17]And I've had the, again, the privilege of watching people leave the bookstore and become
[16:22]managers at other bookstores in some cases start their own bookstore.
[16:27]And that, oh, my gosh, that is extremely gratifying.
[16:29]And that makes me feel like, oh, we're doing it like we're preparing people, we're giving
[16:35]them what they need to move on, but that does mean they're going to move on.
[16:39]And there is a real bittersweetness to that where I'm proud of the work we've done together.
[16:45]And certainly they have made the bookshelf better.
[16:49]They've made my work better, but it is sad to see them go.
[16:54]And so I'm really grateful.
[16:55]I write about this in the book while I was writing that essay.
[16:57]I thought about my current team.
[16:59]And many of us have been here now, I mean, a couple of staffers have worked at the store
[17:04]for five or six years.
[17:06]And that's in retail, that is an unbelievable retention rate.
[17:10]And so that also was kind of ironic to realize, oh, maybe some people do stay.
[17:15]maybe some people do want to plant roots in Thomasville or at the book shelf.
[17:19]And there's something really lovely and surprising about that too.
[17:24]I love that.
[17:25]And you develop such close connections with your customers.
[17:29]You had such a moving essay about Al who used to come to your store.
[17:33]And then he wasn't there as much.
[17:35]And it turns out he had passed away and the connections that you make to people who just come
[17:40]in.
[17:40]And the loss you feel and the loss we all feel when somebody is a part of our day-to-day
[17:45]life, but they're not, you know, they're not one of our best friends or whatever.
[17:50]And you have all of that grief as well when their presence becomes an absence.
[17:56]Yeah, I wanted to write about that because one of my favorite parts about life at the
[18:01]book shelf.
[18:02]And I think you could potentially find this in any third place, like any bookstore or
[18:08]bar or what have you, but I think it's especially true in a small town or a small community
[18:11]or a neighborhood where you have your regulars and you have your people that you see every
[18:16]day.
[18:17]And so much of my life has been spent developing deep long lasting relationships.
[18:25]I'm friends with the friends I've had since I was eight.
[18:28]My husband and I have known each other for over 20 years, I think give or take.
[18:33]And so I love getting in there for the long haul.
[18:38]And a lot of bookstore life is what the world might call maybe more shallow relationships.
[18:47]But what I discovered is those are the relationships that actually make life worth living.
[18:51]And I think even the research is starting to show that's the solution that's the antidote
[18:58]to loneliness.
[19:01]And I certainly have found that to be the case at the bookshelf.
[19:03]My life is so full and vibrant now.
[19:08]It was before, but it was vibrant because of these close-knit friendships.
[19:13]That's what I had in my early to mid 20s.
[19:16]And then now what I have is a handful of close-knit friendships.
[19:20]But mostly what I have is a cast of quirky characters who I interact with at the store,
[19:25]whether it's my fellow staffers or a customer.
[19:29]And you just develop really lovely relationships with these customers, even if you never
[19:33]know their last name.
[19:34]Or even if you weirdly only know the names of their kids because their kids are who come
[19:38]in for story time or to buy books or what have you.
[19:42]And sometimes I just am in awe, especially the holidays when the store is at its most
[19:46]bustling or Saturday when the store is is full and busy.
[19:51]Just looking around and thinking, I know these people.
[19:53]I know all these people.
[19:55]And then with somebody like Al who I write about in the book, I don't think you're
[19:59]supposed to have.
[20:00]favorites. But that is one of my favorite essays in the book. You have somebody like Al who
[20:05]you feel this immense kinship with. And then you start to notice, wait a minute, where are they?
[20:10]I haven't seen them in a few days. And that could mean absolutely nothing. Or it could mean something
[20:15]really sad and hard. And what do you do? How do you grieve a relationship that doesn't fully feel like
[20:22]your relationship to grieve? He wasn't my actual grandfather. He just felt like one because he came in
[20:28]it was so friendly and kind. And how do you mourn that? And how do you honor that? And I wanted to
[20:33]honor Al and Paula and Rose. Those were three customers. I really wanted to name. I wanted to honor them
[20:40]well. And I hope that I did. You absolutely did. And I just felt it so intimately. I mean this
[20:46]happened to me at my bookstore in Santa Monica as people I would find out that they had lost their homes
[20:52]in the fire. And I'm like, oh my gosh, we were just there. Like before we were picking out a book
[20:58]for the daughter. And I wonder what she thought about the book that we've picked out. And you know,
[21:02]anyway, the connections and conversations. And the conversations. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think I
[21:08]say that it's I didn't realize how much of like a bartender you would be because people come to
[21:13]the register or you're standing back in the children's section and you're having conversations
[21:18]about why they're picking out this book or what has brought them to the store that day. And it
[21:23]becomes pretty intimate pretty quickly. And so you do feel like you know each other and you
[21:30]I think when tragedy strikes a neighborhood or bad weather rolls through town, I think about for us
[21:36]that's often looked like hurricanes or what have you. And you just feel like these are people
[21:41]I care about what happens to them, to their kids, to their home. And I think like I said, a lot of
[21:46]people who own or operate or work in these third places where people do feel comfortable to stick
[21:52]around and chat. I think we feel a deep relationship with the people we interact with every day.
[21:59]Great. Oh my gosh. Another chapter in the book. I could talk to you all day about this book.
[22:05]Another chapter talks about book club and that, you know, this is sort of deepening what we're
[22:09]talking about in terms of relationships and what different relationships bring to our lives,
[22:15]which I think is sort of what many of your essays are talking about. They can be
[22:19]someone who passes you by. They can be surfaces. Okay, maybe you don't need to be best friends
[22:24]if people in your book club. Maybe you do want to just go and talk about a book and then move on.
[22:29]But that is also really important. And that is sort of another self-ordifying thing is to have
[22:34]those types of relationships. So talk a little more about the book club and your philosophy.
[22:40]So this is something that certainly has changed for me over the years. My book club that I was
[22:44]a part of in my early to mid 20s, I became deep and lasting. These women are still some of my
[22:51]best friends, even though none of them live locally. None of them were spread out all over the country.
[22:56]But these are still some of my nearest and dearest relationships. And so when I moved to
[23:03]Thomasville and started a new book club, that was my expectation was, okay, these are going to be
[23:08]my new lifelong friends. We're going to love each other forever. And what I quickly discovered was
[23:14]oh, no. And then there's that disappointment when life doesn't kind of match up with your
[23:20]expectations, which I also write about in the book a little bit. I'm a high expectations person.
[23:24]And I had these really high expectations of book club, which as it turns out is maybe too much
[23:28]pressure to put on something as simple as book club. And once I realized, oh, book club is still
[23:35]okay because in fact, I can sit and just talk about books and kind of takes the pressure off. Like
[23:40]I don't have to sit and divulge the deepest truest parts of myself. I could just sit around in a
[23:46]in a corner and talk about books. Once I took the pressure off, actually, I did develop some
[23:52]really lovely friendships. Some of them I write about in the books in the book. But mostly what I
[23:59]think I discovered with my Thomasville book club was book club can just be book club. It doesn't
[24:05]have to be where you find your next kindred spirit. It could just be where you eat snacks and
[24:11]talk about whatever Elizabeth Gilbert just wrote. And that's okay. Like, in fact, that might be
[24:17]just what you need on a random Tuesday night. Maybe you don't actually be, you know, these deep
[24:24]intimate three hour long conversations. Maybe what you need is to grab coffee and sit in a corner
[24:31]and chat about books with a couple of friends. And I think book club, one book club taught me
[24:38]the value of course of lifelong relationship or deep and lasting friendship. And then one book club
[24:45]certainly had some of that. But I think it really taught me to lower my expectations and to just let
[24:53]and I'm going to use air quiz against surface relationships. I think they're more than that.
[24:56]But surface relationships just be what they are. And again, take some pressure off. I encountered
[25:02]a woman I talked about in the book where she joined bunko. And I asked her, I was like, oh my gosh,
[25:08]did you meet, you know, was this a good way to meet people? Whatever. And she kind of looked at me
[25:12]like, I was a little nuts. And she said, no, it's just bunko. And I think I think I immediately
[25:18]was like, wait, just just book club, like something could just be what it is. And so sometimes
[25:24]book club is just book club and turns out that might be enough. You host a podcast on the front
[25:30]porch from the front, sorry, I knew I had something wrong. I'm sorry, I had it. I'm following
[25:35]whatever. From the front porch, I listened to your latest episode and talking about your February
[25:40]books. And I also love those Harris's book had a sleep at night. Really good. I really enjoyed it.
[25:46]And even just you're being honest about what was going on in your life and how it was
[25:49]harder to read in February. And you know, it's okay. Like there are seasons when we can read more.
[25:56]And when we have life gets in the way and all of that. And in the book, you talk about
[26:02]coming to terms with some of the negative reviews in the beginning when people were criticizing
[26:08]your voice and all of this. I remember getting one review for my podcast. I was literally like sobbing.
[26:12]And then you were crying. And I'm like, yes, I got it. How did you move past that? Because you
[26:18]in the essay in a much stronger place, like you want to give me a better view, go ahead,
[26:21]whatever. I'm doing, I'm doing me. And also just your experience of the podcast and how that's been
[26:26]for you. Well, you know what will really test your strong sense of self and the conclusions that you've
[26:33]reached about negative reviews is then putting a book into the world. Yeah, exactly.
[26:40]Exactly. But like so many things, I think life experience. So at first when the podcast has been
[26:47]around since 2013, we're over 500 episodes at this point. It has changed in format over the years.
[26:54]It's changed in terms of co-hosts or guests over the years. Its current iteration is when I
[26:59]really love because a lot of members of the bookstore staff are able to participate in the show,
[27:04]which I love. But those initial, maybe it goes back to this idea that the customer is always
[27:11]right. So those initial reviews made a deep impact where I thought, oh my gosh, like you don't
[27:15]like my voice, you think I giggle too much or you prefer a male co-host to me. Like it was,
[27:21]it was, it felt like drinking out of a fire hydrant. And there is a part of me that is a people
[27:26]pleaser. And so I thought, I've had a tweak these things. I've got to listen to all this feedback.
[27:32]It's almost like when you're in school and maybe this is, maybe this is revealing too much about my
[27:36]psyche. But it's when you're in school and you get like a 90 and you're like, oh my gosh, what
[27:41]could I have done to get 100? That probably is too much about me as a person. But anyway.
[27:46]And so you raise some of these. Yeah. So you read some of these reviews and you're thinking,
[27:51]what can I change or what do I need to change? And then you start reading reviews and they start to
[27:56]count. They start to like counteract the other. And that's when you start to realize, oh, this is
[28:01]subjective. Some people like that I giggle or some people like my voice. And that's when you
[28:09]realize these voices might not be the ones I need to be listening to. I wanted to make it clear
[28:15]in the book. And I want it to be true in my life that I'm willing to listen to criticism or
[28:21]feedback that makes me or the show or the bookstore better, a better writer about whatever.
[28:28]But I think I have learned over the years the voices who I should be willing to listen to are few.
[28:36]And that could be a trusted customer. It could be a beloved mentor. It could be the voice of
[28:41]my husband or my parents or my fellow staffers who are extremely wise and knowledgeable and thoughtful.
[28:47]Those are the voices I listen to. Not necessarily, although I'm grateful for reviews, not necessarily
[28:53]the reviews that may change on a whim depends on the episode they heard. You know, I think I've just
[29:00]had to learn, especially if I'm going to continue living even part of my life in even my small
[29:07]little corner of the internet, but it is the public. And if I'm going to live my life in
[29:13]some form of with the public, I'm going to have to really pay attention to whose voices matter
[29:22]and whose feedback matters. And again, it's really being put to the test by putting a really
[29:27]personal book out into the world. You know, it's not going to be a book that's for everyone,
[29:32]but I'd like to think I have a lot of practice. The book shelf has given me a lot of practice.
[29:37]The podcast has given me a lot of practice to see who am I going to listen to, what feedback matters,
[29:44]and what feedback doesn't matter. And that I think that's one of the only ways to continue,
[29:50]not only maybe putting myself out there in the public, but also to be a creative. I think if you,
[29:55]it's taken me a long time to even say that I'm creative, but if you're going to
[30:00]We are writer or an artist or a creative person
[30:02]who puts work into the world.
[30:04]I think you've got to develop some pretty thick skin.
[30:07]And some days mine is thicker than others,
[30:10]but it's something I'm working on.
[30:12]And I think the podcast helped me develop some of that.
[30:15]Love that.
[30:16]Annie, thank you so much.
[30:18]This was amazing.
[30:19]You're awesome.
[30:20]The book was fabulous.
[30:21]And anything I can do to help, let me know.
[30:24]Thank you, Zibi.
[30:25]I loved our conversation and I'm so grateful
[30:27]for you willing to have me on the show.
[30:29]Of course.
[30:30]Thank you for listening to Totally Booked with Zibi,
[30:33]formerly mom's don't have time to read books.
[30:35]If you loved the show, tell a friend, leave a review,
[30:39]follow me on Instagram at Zibi Owens,
[30:41]and spread the word.
[30:43]Thanks so much.
[30:44]Oh, and buy the books.