Jordan Roter, MOMS LIKE US
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[0:44]Jordan Roder is the author of Moms Like Us, a novel.
[0:48]Jordan is a published novelist, screenwriter, and TV writer, producer.
[0:51]She adapted her second novel, Camp Rules, into a feature for Paramount, and set up several
[0:56]features after that, based on original ideas, formats, and books, as well as rewrites,
[1:01]and roundtable punch-ups for studios, streamers, and financiers.
[1:05]Most recently, in features, she sold a high-concept female-driven comedy feature pitched
[1:09]in Netflix.
[1:11]On the TV side, Jordan has created and developed comedies and dramaties for broadcast
[1:15]and streaming.
[1:16]She has been a writer on the ABC comedy American Housewife, and most recently, a co-producer
[1:21]on the free form thriller The Watchful Eye.
[1:25]Most recently, in TV development, Jordan adapted hit Korean format, Oh My Ghost, into
[1:30]a supernatural dramaty, called Into You, for Blumhouse Studio Dragon, and developed
[1:35]an original multi-generational family comedy for ABC Signature.
[1:39]Currently, Jordan is adapting an hour-long TV adaptation of the novel, Stone Cold Fox,
[1:45]for UTV, and Julie Plex, my so-called company.
[1:48]Jordan's third novel, A Female Driven Satire, called Moms Like Us, was published by Little
[1:54]A, which is actually where blank and bookends my books are published, too.
[1:58]Jordan was raised in Manhattan and Nell lives in LA with her husband, kids, and their dog
[2:02]Alfie.
[2:03]Welcome, Jordan.
[2:04]Thank you so much for coming on totally books with Debbie to talk about Moms Like Us
[2:09]and Novel Congratulations.
[2:10]Thank you so much, Debbie.
[2:12]I'm so happy to be here.
[2:13]Uh-huh.
[2:14]Well, I sort of inhaled this book right when it first arrived, so forgive me if I mess
[2:19]up anybody's names.
[2:20]With this full cast of characters, I feel like I watched a little sitcom and not sitcom,
[2:24]but a limited series or something in my head about this whole community, so thank you
[2:30]for that.
[2:31]I got a lot of entertainment out of it, and we'll never look at, you know, the parking
[2:35]lot at the grocery store in quite the same way again.
[2:38]So thanks.
[2:39]A Trader Joe.
[2:40]Yeah.
[2:41]Yeah.
[2:42]Yeah.
[2:43]We have a Trader Joe's right by my kid's school, and I'm like, huh, what are Moms doing around
[2:46]there?
[2:47]Yeah.
[2:48]What's really happening there?
[2:49]And then he becomes when they're rocking.
[2:50]I don't know.
[2:51]Okay.
[2:52]Talk about what is your book about?
[2:54]So well, the book starts with a murder as any good satire does.
[2:59]So when someone ends up dead at the, this private schools and you will clamping trip
[3:04]and Santa Barbara, we go back through the school year and we follow these four Los Angeles
[3:10]private school moms who really would do anything to protect their kids and their secrets.
[3:16]And we kind of, you know, are trying to figure out throughout the book who died.
[3:22]And everyone kind of has a motive.
[3:24]So it's got, got a little bit of that, you know, big little lies vibe and also a glass
[3:29]onion, a little bit.
[3:31]I hope those were, those were the goals.
[3:33]And when you said, you know, that it felt like a TV show that's really great to hear
[3:37]because I'm a TV writer.
[3:39]That's right.
[3:40]That's right.
[3:41]And, and a feature writer.
[3:44]And so I really wrote it with the intention of it being a show.
[3:49]Yeah.
[3:50]So I'm really happy that it read like a show because that's important.
[3:54]Why didn't you write it as a show?
[3:56]Well, I wrote it during the writer's drink.
[4:00]And so, and I had actually started writing it before that.
[4:05]I had a really frustrating back to school night when my daughter was in sixth grade.
[4:11]And was one of those back to school nights that I just left feeling really like useless
[4:17]as a mother.
[4:18]And like like to, and frustrated with the, the school and frustrated with the administration
[4:23]and then feeling like I wasn't doing enough.
[4:26]And so I started writing it that next morning and this was four years ago.
[4:31]And then, and then I shelved it.
[4:33]It was like therapy, you know, and I hadn't written a novel in 15 years.
[4:38]So I'd been writing for TV and film.
[4:40]So then I, then it was the writer's drink and my, my book agent who I stayed friends
[4:45]with was like, hey, great time to write a book.
[4:50]And I happened to be in Santa Barbara on the school glamping trip at that time.
[4:55]So it all, that's kind of how it all happened.
[4:58]So interesting.
[4:59]Okay.
[5:00]Okay.
[5:01]So who did you want to be murdered?
[5:04]Sadly, there are, there are a lot of people that I was frustrated with, I don't know
[5:13]what I want.
[5:14]Anybody murdered?
[5:15]I'll just say that.
[5:17]Okay.
[5:18]I will also say that we share an editor.
[5:21]Yes.
[5:22]And I wanted to call the book, Milk Mothers I'd Like to Kill.
[5:28]And Carmen was like, that's adorable.
[5:31]No.
[5:32]She was like, definitely not.
[5:36]And I was like, but it's not like, they want to, it's not mothers.
[5:39]I'd like to actually kill.
[5:41]I was like, I want to kill her.
[5:43]Like, you know, it's like, I want to, I'm frustrated like, you know, and, but yeah, she
[5:49]was not having that.
[5:50]Okay.
[5:51]Well, I like, I like this title, mom's like, that's, that's, you know, everybody feels
[5:56]related to that.
[5:57]You know, the same Carmen as the get aggressive the other one.
[6:01]Yeah.
[6:02]There's this book that just came out all the other mothers hate me or something like
[6:05]that, right?
[6:06]The same, like, this, like inner world of competitive moms and the dance that so many people
[6:14]do and exposing that thing.
[6:16]Well, I also think that there's really like, there's this moment in time that there's
[6:22]two things going on.
[6:23]It's like this, you know, so much truth telling about what it's like, really like.
[6:29]All these memoirs, the mother load, the tell is coming out and getting so, you know, I'm
[6:33]so excited to read.
[6:34]I haven't read it, but I've read about it.
[6:37]And you know, with all fours, it's like this, it's like, I feel, and you talked about
[6:43]this in your podcast with your most anticipated books when you first started talking about
[6:48]that.
[6:49]And you're like, why do I keep gravitating toward these, you know, Perry Menopause menopause,
[6:56]you know, women talking about what it's really like, you know, this like the radical
[7:01]truth telling of what it is like to be, you know, a woman, a mom, you know, working,
[7:08]not working, expectations, juggling at all.
[7:12]And it's like, I feel like we're in this moment now where it's okay to say like, you
[7:19]know, to say your truth feelings without being judged for it necessarily.
[7:25]And that was really my goal in writing this was like, because I have honestly, I
[7:31]have a lot of like awful thoughts.
[7:33]And it doesn't mean that like, I actually, but never going to say those out loud.
[7:40]But when I read things about women who share some of those thoughts, I feel less alone.
[7:48]So, and I'm like, oh, I'm not like a terrible person.
[7:51]I just had this thought.
[7:53]And you know, kind of like a ticker, it went past and it's okay.
[7:57]It doesn't necessarily make me a bad person, but Jordan, what if you are a bad person?
[8:04]You know what?
[8:05]I could be.
[8:06]You know, you're just surrounding yourself with other bad people to make yourself feel
[8:12]better.
[8:13]Maybe there's that.
[8:14]That could be it.
[8:15]That could be it.
[8:16]And by the way, that's a great idea.
[8:19]But you know, so when I was writing this like my, my thing was like, especially for the
[8:27]women who I was writing about who really like annoyed me and I was and I was frustrated
[8:34]by I wanted to get into their head.
[8:37]And I wanted to understand why they might be behaving the way they were behaving and find
[8:44]some sort of like humanity and something that I could like about them.
[8:50]And and and hopefully I found that hopefully, you know, all the women aren't, you know,
[8:55]there's something to like and something human about all of them.
[8:59]That was kind of the goal, but I also wanted to take some of the terrible thoughts that
[9:03]I've had and amplify them like by 30 and then, you know, and, and, and kind of see
[9:10]where that took me and and it was veterans out.
[9:13]It took you into a lesbian relationship with the headmaster, should we maybe explore this
[9:20]a little bit?
[9:21]Well, it's funny.
[9:22]I was talking to my friends, Jessica Delve, or two women who were married.
[9:27]And I was talking to them a lot about because I really wanted Millie's first experience
[9:34]kissing, you know, Eva to feel real.
[9:37]And I have not kissed a woman.
[9:39]And so we had like these very, very in-depth conversations.
[9:44]And it was, it was really great, but it was so funny because Jessica looked at me at some
[9:49]point in our conversation.
[9:50]She's like, aren't lesbian.
[9:52]Maybe she's like, maybe you are interested.
[9:56]And I was like, I mean, I'm interested.
[9:58]I'm writing about it, but it was like.
[10:00]Like, yeah, it was, it was great to,
[10:03]to like really have that conversation with them.
[10:06]And I learned a lot.
[10:07]So it seemed very authentic, but what do I think?
[10:10]Thank you.
[10:11]But not to the, not to, what's the word?
[10:16]Not to exclude regular romps
[10:19]because you have plenty of those as well.
[10:21]Oh my God.
[10:22]So many of those.
[10:24]And you know, I like my, so my daughter is dyslexic.
[10:29]And she does not love like, she's,
[10:33]she's an audible listener, audible learner.
[10:36]So she was like, and, and she doesn't love reading
[10:41]because she had such a hard time getting into it,
[10:43]which was a little bit like heartbreaking for me.
[10:46]But at first, but now it's actually great
[10:49]because we read like a lot of her books
[10:52]or school together and like we read Cannery Row.
[10:55]And like it's been so, so fun.
[10:58]But she was asking if she could read it.
[11:00]And I was like, um, I don't know if that's the best idea.
[11:07]I think, and I think it's going to be a little too cringey
[11:10]but I think she, she won't get very far.
[11:13]No, so that's the good news.
[11:15]Yeah, that is good news.
[11:18]And my son has no interest.
[11:20]He's 12 and he's like, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[11:24]But what do you think like moms in your community?
[11:27]Because you do poke fun at like the whole school
[11:30]and all the different sort of mom, mom archetypes,
[11:34]if you will, different ways.
[11:35]And of course, every population has people who skew one way
[11:39]or the other, you know, into some of the characteristics
[11:42]that you and your characters sort of imbued.
[11:45]So I don't know, is there anyone you're particularly afraid
[11:47]of seeing a drop off having read this book?
[11:50]Like, oh, yeah.
[11:52]Yes. Well, not a drop off because especially like,
[11:57]the school I was at when I started writing it,
[12:00]I'm no longer at, and I actually really loved that school.
[12:03]I have nothing like, you know, and the school it's based on
[12:07]is a thousand, not a thousand percent, but not that school.
[12:11]It was actually based on another school
[12:13]that my kids didn't go to.
[12:15]But some of the, but the experiences
[12:17]and certainly the people was inspired by my experience there.
[12:21]But I did say to Carmen when we,
[12:24]when I agreed to, you know,
[12:26]publish this and we were moving forward with it,
[12:29]I was like, it can't be published
[12:32]until my son gets into seventh grade.
[12:37]That's because I just don't,
[12:39]I don't want, I had such a terrible experience
[12:41]getting my daughter in.
[12:43]And this book was so born out of the trauma
[12:48]of that experience and like going through that experience
[12:53]that I was like, that's why it's coming out in May versus March.
[12:59]That is so funny.
[13:01]By the speed, speaking of Carmen, by the way,
[13:03]I've been changing my next book a lot and I read your book
[13:06]and I was like, oh, maybe I could try multiple points of view.
[13:10]Right? Like, that would make this process go faster.
[13:12]Like, I'll just keep it up.
[13:13]And so did you try it?
[13:15]So I pitched this idea to her and she was like,
[13:17]you don't want to try that.
[13:18]Like, no, no, no, no, don't even go there.
[13:21]And I was like, oh, okay, fine.
[13:24]But I'm pretty good at years.
[13:25]I appreciate it.
[13:27]Because it's essentially like four stories.
[13:29]Like, you're like, it has to, and it all has to come together.
[13:33]And it actually is quite complicated.
[13:35]But you know, it's when I started writing it,
[13:38]I didn't know how it would all, you know,
[13:41]like I started writing it really like just
[13:43]as like these individual kind of stories.
[13:47]And then, and then I weaved them together as time went on.
[13:52]And I kind of, you know, I kind of figured it out.
[13:55]And one of the, one of the storylines which like,
[13:59]talk about like being stressed out about, you know,
[14:01]seeing somebody drop off or carpool, an L.A. carpool is there,
[14:06]there was the whole tennis club storyline.
[14:10]Yeah, did come from like a friend of mine who I actually love,
[14:14]but who had an experience with the tennis club.
[14:17]And that was like the light bulb moment.
[14:19]Because actually there was, there was a time with Roni was,
[14:24]I don't know if you ever worked with Roni Wagman.
[14:26]She was, yes, she's wonderful.
[14:29]So she and Carmen and I were on a Zoom together.
[14:33]And it was like right after my first draft.
[14:36]And they actually wanted me to get rid of one of the,
[14:39]the points of view because she wasn't clear enough.
[14:43]And it was funny.
[14:45]Once I, I kind of found that, that thing for her,
[14:49]the, you know, the tennis club was part of it and it connected her to Heather.
[14:55]And, you know, that was like the key for me.
[14:58]And it was just one moment of, you know,
[15:01]an experience with a friend who had a hard time getting into the tennis club.
[15:06]And it was this, it unlocked a whole character for me.
[15:10]So it's like, that's the good thing about writing what you know is like,
[15:15]every time you walk down the street, you know, you get inspiration or you,
[15:19]you know, you, you, you get some kind of like idea, which is great.
[15:24]Because I don't go very far.
[15:27]I work from home.
[15:29]My kids like, you know, go to school nearby.
[15:31]Like I kind of, you know, stay in my lane.
[15:34]So it's, that's good.
[15:37]So take me back to how you became a writer to begin with.
[15:41]So what happened, what happened, where you grew up,
[15:44]give me the quick life story.
[15:46]Yeah, New York City, mean streets, the free side, very tough.
[15:51]Uh, went to Dalton, went to Brown, not well educated at all.
[15:56]Uh, and then, um, I wanted to be, so I did sketch comedy in college.
[16:01]I was always, and I did stand up.
[16:03]And then I went to New York for two years, which was like a lost two years.
[16:07]I was so depressed and like couldn't find myself.
[16:11]I was trying to act.
[16:12]I couldn't like, and then I moved out to LA.
[16:15]And I had always wanted to live in California.
[16:19]I don't like bad weather.
[16:21]I, you know, I, I just like, I, I always say like,
[16:24]I never really felt myself in New York, even though I lived there for the first 25 years
[16:28]of my life.
[16:29]And then I moved out here and I made a whole community and life from myself.
[16:33]And I've been here for about 25 years.
[16:35]But I came out here to be an actress and, um, and to do some stand up and sketch comedy.
[16:40]And, you know, back then it was a little bit different.
[16:43]But, you know, I was told I was very funny, but that I was not pretty and thin enough
[16:49]to be the leading lady.
[16:50]And I was not fat and ugly enough to be the quirky best friend.
[16:54]And that's all that those were, that's all there was then in, you know, 1999, 2000,
[17:00]which doesn't seem that long ago, but in the grand scheme of things when you look at, you know,
[17:04]who's doing comedy now and who's, you know, it just, I feel like there's a little more room
[17:09]for other types of women to be funny and successful.
[17:14]And it just, it, it, and I couldn't handle it.
[17:18]Like I just didn't have a thick enough skin.
[17:20]So I got into, so I kept doing groundlings at night.
[17:24]And I went into production and development for years.
[17:26]And then I met an agent at a party.
[17:30]I didn't know he was an agent.
[17:31]He's a book agent, Richard Abate.
[17:33]And I was telling him about my experiences as an assistant.
[17:36]And he was like, you should write a young adult novel about it.
[17:39]And I was like, okay.
[17:41]And we sold that off of 50 pages.
[17:43]And that was how I got into writing young adult fiction.
[17:47]And then I wrote another book called Camp Rules,
[17:49]which I then adapted into a feature for Paramount.
[17:52]And that's how I got into feature writing.
[17:55]And then, so I wrote features for a bunch of years.
[17:57]And then I sold my first TV thing.
[18:00]And then I started staffing in TV.
[18:02]And then I started, so I write hour long, like dramaties.
[18:06]And I write comedies for television.
[18:08]And I write movies that never get made.
[18:10]And also television pellets and never get made.
[18:12]But, and then I, you know, look, sometimes I get lucky enough
[18:16]to get stopped on a show.
[18:17]And I actually get to make things.
[18:19]And that's really cool.
[18:20]I wrote on this preform show right before the strike called The Watchful Eye,
[18:26]which I don't think a lot of people saw.
[18:27]But it was so fun.
[18:28]I went to Vancouver, produced my episode.
[18:32]It was, it was awesome.
[18:34]It was great.
[18:35]So, and now hopefully I'll adapt moms like us.
[18:39]And I have a couple other things.
[18:42]But the novel writing is a lot of work.
[18:44]I don't know how you do it with all the other things that you're juggling.
[18:49]Yeah, not well, apparently.
[18:50]I just like threw out my last draft.
[18:53]So, yeah, yeah.
[18:55]I was like, oh, I don't like this at all.
[18:57]Like this is, no, anyway.
[18:59]Yeah, I think most, I mean, unless you are a full-time novel writer,
[19:03]which not many people are, like you have to find time on the fringes of life, right?
[19:07]When between teaching or your job or your kids or whatever.
[19:10]Like the days of like, I don't know, being in a cabin.
[19:16]And just writing, I mean, there's some people who have had enough success that I've interviewed
[19:21]who can do that now.
[19:22]But nobody starts out that way, usually, you know?
[19:25]So, yeah.
[19:25]So we all just fit it in.
[19:27]You know, we just have to put it in.
[19:28]Well, I also feel like I'm a bit, you know how they say like, there's like method writers,
[19:33]and method actors.
[19:34]I'm kind of like a method writer where I feel like, you know, I have to kind of go a bit dark
[19:42]if I'm going dark.
[19:43]Like, I have to get into those like, that kind of mindset.
[19:47]So it's very hard, like, if I'm planning to be working all day from home,
[19:52]and then I have a kid of them sick who's like, you make me a grilled cheese,
[19:56]and I'm like, you know, writing a sexy and then, you know,
[20:00]a mini van, a woman cheating on her husband in Trader Joe's,
[20:04]like it's really hard to go to those places
[20:08]when you're also momming.
[20:10]It's at least as hard for me.
[20:13]And so it was really like finding those moments
[20:17]and just saying, like, kids, if you need anything,
[20:21]like if they're at school, you have to call your father.
[20:26]Like, you know, I can't, I can't have like,
[20:30]and I don't know if you get these texts from your kid,
[20:32]kids, I get a text that's like capital letters mom.
[20:38]Yes.
[20:39]And that's it.
[20:40]And you're like, what is happening?
[20:42]Like what?
[20:44]And then it's like, I got it, you know, a B plus.
[20:48]Okay, lose my number.
[20:49]Like, come on, this is crazy.
[20:51]I can't, I can't do this.
[20:54]I get a lot of texts that just say answer period.
[20:58]And I'm like, stop yelling at me.
[21:01]You know, like, I didn't hear it.
[21:02]My rear was off.
[21:03]What's going on?
[21:04]Are you okay?
[21:05]Yeah.
[21:06]Yeah.
[21:07]And then I had the other day, I was really focusing
[21:09]and trying hard to like write something.
[21:11]Not that I, and usually I try to take off, you know,
[21:14]close out of my text or whatever, but I didn't.
[21:17]And like my mom was like, I can't figure out this form.
[21:21]You know, could you, could you just help me with this form?
[21:23]Like, what do I put for this, you know,
[21:25]these two blocks of text or something?
[21:27]And I was like, I don't know.
[21:28]No one's ever asked me that before.
[21:29]Just like, make something up for leave it blank.
[21:31]And then I'm trying to go back and tell you
[21:33]and then she's like, that's not working.
[21:35]Like, what if I do this, you know?
[21:36]And like, I kept going back like five times.
[21:38]And finally I just leaned back and I was like,
[21:40]you know what?
[21:41]Like, I just, I can't do this.
[21:42]Oh, I can't do this.
[21:43]Yeah.
[21:45]No, the best is when my parents
[21:47]forget that I'm on their text chain.
[21:49]So it's like, make sure to get the yogurt
[21:53]with the, you know, the vanilla and not the thing.
[21:57]And then it's like, did you record Grey's Anatomy, you know?
[22:02]And it's like, guys, I'm on this text chain.
[22:04]It's like, okay, sorry.
[22:06]Anyways, so make sure to fill up the card.
[22:08]I'm like, guys, I'm on the, like, please.
[22:13]Again, lose my number.
[22:15]Like everyone just lose my number.
[22:17]That could be the title of your next book.
[22:20]You should totally do that.
[22:22]That should be your, like, but not, not fiction.
[22:25]Just like, you know, making my number like essays.
[22:28]Like funny essays about, you know, hashtag mom life or whatever.
[22:32]I love it.
[22:33]All right, well, it'd be publishing.
[22:34]Okay.
[22:35]I hear too.
[22:36]Can't touch you from Carmen.
[22:38]You do.
[22:39]Yeah, I know.
[22:40]I know.
[22:41]I don't know that Carmen wants to do a bunch of short stories
[22:44]called lose my number, but I love it.
[22:46]I'm like, this is, you just, yeah.
[22:49]It could be fun.
[22:50]I go off and write after this.
[22:51]Yeah.
[22:52]That's right.
[22:53]Love it.
[22:54]Everybody could relate.
[22:55]I am sure.
[22:56]Yeah.
[22:57]Okay.
[22:58]So what are you working on aside from this new book that we came up with?
[22:59]Are you working?
[23:00]So aside from this new book, we just came up with.
[23:02]So I'm actually pitching the adaptation of another book right now.
[23:08]It's called Stone Cold Fox.
[23:09]It came out a couple of years ago.
[23:10]Oh, yeah.
[23:11]Yeah.
[23:12]And so I'm working on that with Julie Plex company.
[23:15]She's a big TV writer, director.
[23:19]I actually worked with her a million years ago when I was an assistant to Kevin Williamson,
[23:23]which is like a funny kind of coming around.
[23:25]So I am pitching that out to buyers.
[23:31]And we just are sending moms like us out to producers now.
[23:36]And I actually work with my husband on a couple things producing.
[23:41]So we have a couple projects that we're pitching with other people writing.
[23:46]My grandparents always work together.
[23:48]They work together and they were in the government industry.
[23:51]And they had the greatest relationship.
[23:53]So kind of like the way you and Kyle sometimes collaborate on things.
[23:58]I think it's it's both like wonderful and also kind of drives me nuts sometimes to work
[24:03]with my husband.
[24:04]It's a lot of like lack of separation between church and state.
[24:09]But most of the time it's it's really wonderful and we kind of we really complement
[24:14]each other because I'm more of the creative and he's a real, you know, producer of many
[24:18]years.
[24:19]So and he's working with your brother.
[24:21]Oh, no way.
[24:22]Yeah.
[24:23]Oh my God.
[24:24]I think you told me that, but I totally forgot because he has this amazing project with
[24:30]Teddy and and so they're like trying to get talent and oh, that's so great.
[24:35]Yeah.
[24:36]Yeah.
[24:37]So maybe sometime next time you're out here, we can all go out.
[24:40]That'd be funny.
[24:41]Yeah.
[24:42]That'd be really fun.
[24:43]I love it.
[24:44]So that's kind of, you know, and then I mean, I don't I don't know if I'm going to write
[24:49]another book anytime soon.
[24:51]It was, you know, but who knows, I had a different ending for this book and it's how
[24:58]I imagine the first season of the show ending.
[25:03]And I sent it to Carmen with like my first draft and Carmen was like, you can't end the
[25:08]book this way.
[25:10]And I was like, but it's like, it's not brilliant, but it's like, it's great like, and
[25:17]she's like Jordan, I don't think there's going to be a sequel to this book and I was
[25:22]like, but there's going to be a season too.
[25:24]And she's like, yeah, so you put that in the show, she's like, we can't end the book
[25:29]on like a super duper cliffhanger and I was like, okay, so anyway, that's that was it.
[25:41]But so, so Carmen, it's the the milk title and the ending and I have to say I think she
[25:47]was right about both.
[25:48]She's usually read about most stuff.
[25:50]Yes.
[25:51]Yes.
[25:52]She's, she's coming to the book party.
[25:53]Oh, yeah.
[25:54]It worked.
[25:55]Yeah.
[25:56]Yeah.
[25:57]Yeah.
[25:58]It's amazing.
[25:59]Okay.
[26:00]Well, Jordan, first of all, also these have to, this cover should be like tennis bags.
[26:04]Are you making little tennis bags?
[26:06]You know I should.
[26:07]Can I take, can I take a picture of you holding it so I can put it on hold up.
[26:11]Okay.
[26:12]I want to, and you know this because I'm, I saw you at shine away.
[26:17]I'm just getting used to like social media and all the, no worries.
[26:21]So, and you're the master.
[26:22]So, okay.
[26:23]Hardly, but cute.
[26:24]Okay.
[26:25]Hopefully, I don't have too many things open on my desktop, you know, whatever.
[26:30]But this is such a treat.
[26:32]I've been looking forward to this.
[26:33]I was a little nervous.
[26:34]Oh, come on.
[26:35]Please.
[26:36]Do you remember when I first met you at shine away?
[26:38]Of course.
[26:39]Like, but that I was in the middle of having like a hot, hot, hot flash.
[26:43]Yes.
[26:44]And it was like broadcast news.
[26:46]I couldn't tell.
[26:48]You knew.
[26:49]You felt bad.
[26:50]I could not tell ever.
[26:51]You just can't really tell.
[26:52]You're so sweet.
[26:54]And sympathetic because I was like, I had sweat dripping off my nose.
[26:58]You didn't.
[26:59]I did.
[27:00]Like, I went to the bathroom after and like, I had to like peel my clothes up.
[27:05]Like it was, I had such a hot, oh my god.
[27:08]It was crazy.
[27:09]I'm on estrogen patches now.
[27:11]So we're all good.
[27:12]Okay.
[27:13]Great.
[27:14]So next time, I will not bring the squeegee's and, alright.
[27:17]Perfect.
[27:18]Perfect.
[27:19]I'll just do such a treat.
[27:20]Thank you.
[27:21]Thank you for all your support.
[27:22]I really appreciate it.
[27:23]I hope to see you in first and soon.
[27:25]Okay.
[27:26]Definitely.
[27:27]Okay.
[27:28]Thank you for listening to totally booked with Zibi, formerly momstone have time to read
[27:32]books.
[27:33]If you loved the show, tell a friend, leave a review, follow me on Instagram at Zibi Owens
[27:38]and spread the word.
[27:40]Thanks so much.
[27:41]Oh, and buy the books.