Jennifer Blecher, CAMP FAMOUS and SUDDENLY FAMOUS
[0:00]Hi, this is Zibi Owens, and you're listening to Totally Book to Zibi.
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[0:44]Jennifer Bletcher is the author of Suddenly Famous, Camp Famous, Book 2.
[0:50]Jennifer is the author of Out of Place, Stick With Me, Camp Famous listened to this,
[0:55]and Suddenly Famous.
[0:56]She writes contemporary middle-grade novels about friendship, fitting in, and first crushes.
[1:02]Jennifer lives in Boston with her husband and three daughters.
[1:06]Welcome back to Jennifer Bletcher, who is here this time for both Camp Famous and
[1:12]Suddenly Famous, and I have a very special guest host.
[1:17]My daughter is here with us today, my younger daughter.
[1:20]Welcome to both of you.
[1:21]Such honor!
[1:22]So good to talk to both of you.
[1:23]Thanks for having me.
[1:26]So, Jen, we've known each other now for many years.
[1:29]We read Out of Place, which my older kids read, and now my second set of kids has
[1:35]fallen in love with your work again, so this is great for us.
[1:38]You just keep writing, and we'll keep reading.
[1:41]Try my best, that's what I'm here for.
[1:44]But why don't you tell us a little bit about what your books are about for those who
[1:48]are joining, and then I will turn it over to my lovely daughter.
[1:52]Great.
[1:53]So, generally speaking, I write books for kids ages eight to twelve, and I write about
[1:59]friendship, fitting in, and first crushes.
[2:03]So I write contemporary middle grade novels.
[2:06]What we're here to talk about today is Camp Famous, which is the story of Abby Herman,
[2:11]who for years and years and years was desperate to go to sleep over Camp, and her parents
[2:15]kept saying no.
[2:17]And then one summer they caved, and they said, good news, Abby, you're going to sleep
[2:21]over Camp.
[2:23]But it wasn't until Abby got to the airport that they threw a new twist at her, and told
[2:27]her she was going to a camp called Camp Famous, which is where the most famous kids in
[2:32]the world go to get away from it all for summer.
[2:35]So Abby found out that she was going to camp with princesses and pop stars, and scientists
[2:41]and all these other fabulous kids, and she has to find out, first of all, how she got
[2:46]there, but most importantly, how far she's willing to go to fit in.
[2:51]And then suddenly famous is the sequel to that story, so the continuation.
[2:55]Very exciting.
[2:56]Go ahead.
[2:57]Okay.
[2:58]So the first question is, how do you come up with your ideas for books?
[3:02]So that's a great question.
[3:03]So I kind of think of my job as an author, particularly as an author for readers your
[3:10]age, is to get kids hooked on books.
[3:13]Like I want to throw a book at a kid, have them fall in love with a story, not be able
[3:18]to stop reading and keep turning the pages.
[3:21]So the way I do that is I start with a core motion that I hope is recognizable to all
[3:26]my readers.
[3:27]So in Camp Famous, for example, that core motion was sort of feeling like your desperate
[3:31]to fit in.
[3:32]You kind of feel like you're not up to snuff, and you don't know what to do about it.
[3:36]But then because my job is to keep you as a reader really engaged, I always want to take
[3:41]that core motion and then blow it up with as much drama as I can possibly do within the
[3:48]realm of what I write, which is sort of about the real world about like contemporary world.
[3:52]So yeah, that's how I do it.
[3:54]So for Camp Famous, instead of her going to a regular sleepover camp, I wanted her to go
[3:58]to a sleepover camp with all these kinds of outrageously wonderful, fabulous kids that
[4:02]she wouldn't come across sort of in her day-to-day life at school.
[4:07]So I always try it.
[4:08]My goal is to always make it really fun and exciting for the reader.
[4:12]Can I jump in with a question?
[4:13]What was your sleepaway camp experience like?
[4:15]I was a sleepover camp fanatic.
[4:17]I was a sleepover camp rupee.
[4:18]I went all the way through.
[4:19]I was a CIT.
[4:20]I was a counselor.
[4:22]I was in a big time.
[4:23]And I actually started writing Camp Famous during the COVID pandemic when my kids sleepover
[4:27]camps were canceled.
[4:29]So sleepover camp was big on my mind when I was writing this story.
[4:32]Okay, back to you.
[4:33]Okay.
[4:34]Abby's character, did you take inspiration off yourself or someone you know?
[4:38]I mean, I think as terrible as this sounds, all of my characters are a little bit inspired
[4:42]by things that I've experienced personally.
[4:44]I think I love writing in the first person, which is the way Abby's story is written.
[4:49]So it's one of the characters telling the reader, I did this, I did that.
[4:53]And I feel like when I write from my own experiences that it allows me to go really deep
[4:56]with that first person character.
[4:59]So I definitely draw from my own experiences.
[5:02]I also have three daughters and I never write directly about them.
[5:07]I have a very firm rule that I don't want them to read any of my stories when they're
[5:11]my age and think that I wrote directly about their life.
[5:14]But I do get inspired or I do remember the way I felt at that age when I watched them sort
[5:21]of go through things that they're dealing with in their own lives.
[5:24]How old are your daughters?
[5:25]So right now, so right now they are ages 12, 15 and 17.
[5:31]But when I first started writing for this middle grade age group, you will not be surprised
[5:36]that my oldest daughter was eight years old at the time.
[5:39]So I've had a good run, Zibi, I've had this good run of kids exactly at the right age
[5:44]as my readers in my own home.
[5:47]Does this mean you're going to start writing for older readers?
[5:49]I don't know.
[5:50]I mean, I think part of what to go back to your daughter's question about what inspires
[5:56]me, I'm inspired by them, but I also have this terrible habit as a writer, which is going
[6:01]to sound a little creepy about myself familiar to you in your own home where I'll come
[6:05]up with an idea for a book.
[6:07]And I'll think it's fabulous.
[6:08]And I'll spend a lot of time thinking about it all right a few chapters.
[6:12]And then I'll sort of very casually slide the pages to one of my daughters and just
[6:16]say, hey, what do you think about this?
[6:18]Can you take a look?
[6:19]And then I lurk very awkwardly in the background while they're reading.
[6:23]And if they like a story, I am like golden.
[6:28]I feel so inspired.
[6:29]I feel so good to go.
[6:30]I feel like I can't wait to tackle the whole book.
[6:33]But if I slide them some pages and they're, I start to wander or like their phone rings
[6:38]and they actually pick it up instead of continuing to read, I kind of know I'm off course.
[6:43]So I feel like I have someone have an advantage living with my own readers.
[6:51]And it's sad to think, I don't know, maybe I'll have to move up with them in time.
[6:55]But I love, I love writing middle grade fiction.
[6:57]I do.
[6:58]It's my favorite.
[6:59]What is the sequel easier or harder for you to write?
[7:02]Yeah.
[7:03]The sequel was easier for me to write mostly because I was dying to write it.
[7:10]So I wrote, when I wrote campaign was I kind of always envisioned it as a series because
[7:15]it was most of my books are much more reality based.
[7:19]Campaign doesn't actually exist even though I kind of think like it might.
[7:23]And we just all don't know about it because it's so top secret.
[7:25]But as far as I know, campaign does not actually exist.
[7:29]But I loved this great group of kids that had such different experiences that I could
[7:34]all throw together in one space.
[7:36]And I don't know about you, but as I was writing it, I knew there was something up the
[7:40]entire time with Abby and Kai.
[7:42]I just knew it like I felt it in my bones.
[7:45]And I felt very compelled to write about what is their first sort of hints of love for
[7:53]each of them, which is the sequel of suddenly famous.
[7:56]And also, to be frank with you, my youngest daughter wouldn't let me not write it.
[8:01]And that was one of those books where I had written a chapter or two.
[8:05]And I showed it to her.
[8:07]And then I kind of put it aside for a little while and she kept on asking for the
[8:11]sequel.
[8:12]So she wore me down and I wrote it for her and I'm very glad that I did, but it was a
[8:17]process.
[8:18]Okay.
[8:19]Are you already planning the third book?
[8:21]Okay.
[8:22]So I personally feel as though the third book should be royally famous when Abby goes
[8:30]to visit Bell's at her palace and because she's Abby, things go wrong, she kind of has
[8:38]to work her way out of a very intense, also romantic situation that might happen to coincide
[8:44]with the wedding of Bell's older brother, which has been well publicized because he is
[8:50]the crown prince of the country where Bell's lives, but I have not started writing it yet.
[8:55]So if you think that's a good idea, I always do well with encouragement because I'm insecure
[9:00]like that, but that's what I'm thinking.
[9:02]So I have not started writing it, but that story is very much in my mind as something
[9:07]that I would like to pursue.
[9:09]I think that's a very, very good idea and I would really read it and is it like each book
[9:15]will be based on one of the girls in the cabin and cabin tranquility?
[9:20]I mean, I think so.
[9:21]I think that there was a world in which I was going to write different books from each
[9:25]of her bunkmates perspectives, but I just love Abby's voice so much that I just kind
[9:31]of hear it in my head.
[9:33]So if I'm going to keep going with this campaign series, I think I'm going to keep going
[9:37]with Abby's point of view and because these kids are famous, like honestly, they can
[9:42]send private plans to go pick Abby up wherever she is and bring them to her.
[9:47]So the world is kind of my oyster with this series and I don't know, Abby's, I'm lucky
[9:52]that way and Abby's lucky that way.
[9:54]So we'll see if there's more adventures in the future.
[9:58]So if the third...
[10:00]Where to come out?
[10:01]It would take like five, four, three issues.
[10:05]Yes, that was absolutely accurate.
[10:06]So I think, so I actually did suddenly famous on my own.
[10:10]So Camp Famous was published with my editor
[10:14]and a whole whole big team behind me.
[10:17]And they ended up seeing,
[10:18]they ended up thinking of Camp Famous
[10:20]more as a standalone book,
[10:21]whereas I really saw it as a series.
[10:24]And because I am a little bit stubborn
[10:27]and I am even more motivated
[10:31]to keep putting more books on the shelves
[10:35]for readers like you,
[10:36]who like these kind of contemporary,
[10:40]lightly romantic, very, very sparkly books.
[10:44]I decided to do Suddenly Famous on my own.
[10:47]And because you two are sitting there in front of me,
[10:49]I would tell you that my oldest daughter
[10:50]did the cover for me.
[10:52]She's a really talented artist.
[10:53]So she drew the cover, which I think is fantastic.
[10:57]So I do probably have the ability
[10:59]to push them out a little bit faster
[11:01]if I keep having more conversations like this
[11:03]that are wonderful and motivate me to do so.
[11:06]When you did it on your own,
[11:08]did you self-publish it?
[11:09]I've published it.
[11:10]No way.
[11:12]I self-published it.
[11:13]I did.
[11:14]Yeah.
[11:15]I'm surprised because normally once you write a follow-up book,
[11:18]like you didn't even need an advance.
[11:21]You could just hand it at it.
[11:22]They're foolish not to publish.
[11:24]I tried really, really hard.
[11:26]Yeah.
[11:27]I mean, middle grade is tough right now.
[11:29]And they saw it as a stand alone.
[11:32]And it's a series.
[11:33]So I wrote the whole book.
[11:37]I, my daughter loved it.
[11:39]Her friends loved it.
[11:40]I couldn't let it go.
[11:41]And I mean, basically, I really did.
[11:43]I asked myself two questions.
[11:44]I said, do I think there needs to be more books like this
[11:47]in the world or fewer?
[11:48]And I think very clearly there needs to be more.
[11:51]And then I asked, did I think I had the ability
[11:54]to put this book out and have it shine the way I want it
[11:59]to have it be received the way my other books have been
[12:01]received?
[12:02]And when the answer to both of those questions were yes,
[12:05]I was like, I'm doing it.
[12:07]So here we are.
[12:08]And I'm so excited that you didn't know that because I hope
[12:11]that it read just as beautifully as my other books
[12:15]because I did put a lot of work into it.
[12:18]Well, actually, Sadie and I wrote a book together
[12:20]were almost done with it.
[12:21]We did a graphic novel.
[12:22]All right.
[12:23]What do you do not really?
[12:24]We're not very far in it.
[12:26]We're far enough.
[12:27]We can just kind of wrap it up at this 70 pages.
[12:29]We've written 70 pages of a graphic novel.
[12:31]It doesn't have to be that long.
[12:32]Yeah, it should be.
[12:33]We've been sending it out.
[12:34]We've been rejected kind of a bunch of times, which is sad.
[12:38]So we've been, I've been thinking about it as just self
[12:40]publishing it, but I didn't have a role model.
[12:42]But now we do.
[12:43]How is it going?
[12:44]What should we know?
[12:45]Yeah, I mean, it's going, I mean, so the finished product is
[12:48]so I'm so proud of the finished product, the print quality
[12:51]and the cover.
[12:52]The reviews have been fantastic.
[12:54]My readers are absolutely loving it.
[12:56]So you also been good distribution is hard.
[12:58]It's hard when you self publish to get your books into
[13:00]independent bookstores like your Zibi.
[13:02]And that's something that has been sad for me because I
[13:05]have developed really great relationships with a lot of
[13:07]independent bookstores.
[13:09]And I want to keep those going.
[13:10]But it's challenging from a distribution side.
[13:13]But if things continue the way they're going
[13:16]with suddenly famous, I'm just going to keep going.
[13:19]I mean, this is sort of a conversation that I don't want to
[13:23]bore your daughter with.
[13:24]But middle grade is tricky.
[13:25]I don't know if this is what you guys are finding.
[13:27]But there aren't people are cutting back with middle grade,
[13:31]which is the publishing term for the age group that I write for.
[13:34]And the other thing is, are there so many gatekeepers
[13:38]from middle grade?
[13:39]There are, you know, to get from the story you write,
[13:43]to get your book into the hands of the people that you're
[13:45]writing for, to get your hands in the book
[13:48]into the hands of your readers, you often have to get through
[13:51]sort of teachers, librarians, professional book reviewers,
[13:55]editors.
[13:56]And a lot of those people are decades older than the readers
[14:01]that you as a writer are writing for.
[14:04]And I think sometimes all of that gatekeeping stands in the
[14:09]way of getting more books out there.
[14:12]Or at least books that kids really, really enjoy.
[14:14]I mean, I think the majority of the time the gatekeepers get
[14:17]right, but sometimes they don't.
[14:20]And I think if you're a writer who like loves your story,
[14:23]like if you guys love this graphic novel and you believe in it,
[14:27]put it out there.
[14:28]I mean, that's been my takeaway from all of this.
[14:30]And then I mean, we can follow up with you after first
[14:32]specific questions.
[14:33]Did you do it through Amazon or how did you do it?
[14:35]I did it through Amazon print on demand.
[14:38]It's tricky to figure out all the formatting.
[14:41]But once you get it, it becomes easier in the future.
[14:44]And the print quality is excellent.
[14:46]And I'm sure you guys can see from holding the book.
[14:49]So this is a very out there.
[14:51]But I feel like maybe like a couple of years can't famous
[14:56]would be a very good movie.
[14:58]Same.
[14:59]Oh, yeah.
[14:59]Oh, sorry.
[15:00]You dropped you.
[15:01]I think can't famous would be such a fun movie
[15:04]because who doesn't love a summer movie, right?
[15:06]And you could set it at a sleepover camp.
[15:08]There's so many different kids that are all put together in
[15:13]this one outdoor super great environment.
[15:16]And then obviously, because we've already decided there
[15:20]can be spin off series of suddenly famous and royally
[15:23]famous and tragically famous.
[15:26]And however, however far, you know, we want to take this.
[15:29]So yeah, maybe newly famous, newly famous, maybe
[15:34]somebody becomes famous.
[15:35]It doesn't mean it doesn't mean it.
[15:36]No, okay.
[15:37]But would be tragically famous would be that
[15:39]be like hazels because of her mom posting some better.
[15:42]It's either hazel because of her mom or on the flip side,
[15:47]it's Shira, who accidentally does something really,
[15:51]really terrible with her slime.
[15:55]That's, I don't know, are you selling the slime that goes
[15:58]with the slime business?
[15:59]I mean, I went right.
[16:01]If someone is someone can help me make that for sure.
[16:03]That's like that outside the box thinking.
[16:06]So we are, we know actually a movie producer and a team.
[16:11]We can maybe bring it up.
[16:14]I honestly, I love writing and I love telling these stories.
[16:19]And I need all the help I can get.
[16:21]So I will.
[16:22]I'm going to, I mean, we can talk like plots after this.
[16:26]And then we can also talk representation.
[16:28]You'll get your first producer credit if you make this happen.
[16:32]Yeah, you'll get a, you'll get a, you would be a,
[16:35]you'll get a cameo on the show.
[16:36]I feel like if you like to act.
[16:39]I do, you know, but no, it's been, um, it's, I know it's
[16:44]gonna be like, I know we've, we've talked for over the years a lot.
[16:47]And, um, I just, I love this middle grade space.
[16:50]I want to do what I can to keep, to keep it going and to keep giving
[16:55]readers who like the way I write more books to read because I, I, as a
[16:59]parent, I appreciate that when my kids find an author they like or a
[17:03]series they like and they can just sort of keep diving back into it.
[17:06]So that's what, that's what I'm here to do.
[17:09]I love it.
[17:10]I have one, one last question.
[17:12]Yes.
[17:13]When you were Abby's age, did you also have like a journal or notebook that
[17:16]you wrote in?
[17:16]I did.
[17:17]I had a journal that I wrote in.
[17:20]I still have it.
[17:21]And a lot of times when I go on school visits, people will ask me what
[17:26]recommendation I have for anyone who wants to write or become a writer.
[17:30]And I used to have kind of a stock answer, but now I've changed my mind.
[17:34]And I think my answer is, is that anybody who loves books or wants to become
[17:38]a writer should have a private place to write.
[17:41]And I know we don't want to give this away, but like it didn't work out quite
[17:44]that way for Abby.
[17:46]But in an ideal world, everyone who wants to be a writer should have some
[17:51]kind of secret private place.
[17:53]They write whether it's a journal or whether it's a document on the
[17:56]computer that they save as, and they title it like math homework so that
[18:00]no one ever gets interested enough to read it.
[18:02]Yeah, I think that's really important for people your age and then people
[18:05]the same ages as your mom and I.
[18:08]That was for all my questions for now.
[18:10]Yes, I can keep any questions.
[18:12]Do I have any questions?
[18:13]Those were really good.
[18:15]I'm totally fascinated with this.
[18:16]How have sales been and how has marketing been now that you've taken it all
[18:21]on your own versus having supportive of publisher?
[18:24]So sales have been really steady, which is great.
[18:27]They were great in the beginning because everybody I knew bought the book,
[18:31]and I was very excited and then I got very nervous.
[18:34]But they're continuing on slow and steady, which I know is all word of
[18:39]mouth because I haven't gotten a single trade review because it's self-published.
[18:44]Sales have also been really good at the independent bookstores where I have
[18:47]personal relationships because I'm able to go to those booksellers,
[18:51]show them the book, explain the story, and then they have been really great
[18:55]about putting it on the shelves.
[18:57]Marketing is not my strength.
[18:59]I struggle with it because I find part of what we were talking about with like
[19:03]the gatekeepers.
[19:03]Like I would love to be able to talk to people like your daughter all day long, but it's hard
[19:08]when you're trying to reach a 10-year-old or an 11-year-old.
[19:12]It's hard to reach them, right?
[19:14]Like if you're writing YA or young adult, you know, or adult fiction, you can get on TikTok
[19:20]or you can get on Instagram and you can talk directly to your readers.
[19:23]So middle grade is different.
[19:25]So whenever I can talk directly to readers, I feel like the marketing goes well,
[19:29]but I am struggling to figure out how to really
[19:33]strike that balance of reaching enough people,
[19:36]or enough kids, enough young girls.
[19:39]Do you have any ideas about how authors who are targeting younger kids
[19:45]and reach them?
[19:46]Well, like a lot of people that are like my age are on like not like Instagram or TikTok,
[19:52]but like more so YouTube.
[19:54]I know YouTube shorts.
[19:56]Yeah, I know.
[19:57]Well, that's where we need the movie to come.
[20:00]I'm into play because if we could just get a professional producer to like help me film some YouTube shorts. I feel like we'd be golden, but I don't know how to do it and I spent so much time telling my kids to get off of YouTube that that woman.
[20:11]Hey guys, can someone help me figure out this YouTube short stuff. I feel really hypocritical, but I might have to just get over that. Do you use cap cut? Do you know what cap cut is?
[20:22]I actually do use cap cut and I help mom make a lot of credits on cap cut. Okay, so and that's works for you guys to sort of. Okay, I might I think I yeah, it's not as hard as it looks. I mean, it's you have to press a lot of buttons and that kind of stuff. But once you get used to it, it's really cool. Okay, AI features so it's easy. I know I wish we could like cast camp famous right now and sort of acted out right like in central park or something and then put it up on YouTube shorts.
[20:52]But why don't you do it? Why don't you adapt it? Oh, I mean, I'm serious. Just try to like just try to take out all the descriptions and just keep the dialogue and see what happens and like, put your daughter like get her friends and just like do it.
[21:05]Yeah, I mean, I could definitely think about that. I do like one. Do like one scene. Don't do the whole book. Do like the first scene.
[21:13]See how it goes. Film it on an iPhone with like cinematic. Yeah. And then at least you'd have the short. Yeah. No, I mean, I guess I do have a whole crew of girls that I could I could draw from if they would indulge me.
[21:28]Or we could do some like really awesome man some like suddenly famous would be good on the screen too. Yeah, but that scene, you know that scene at the we can't talk about it, but like.
[21:39]Towards the end. What do you think it would happen if she went on YouTube and said I'm casting for a YouTube special and an adaptation of this book would anyone be interested and then have random kids apply and have them do it with their friends.
[21:56]They could do that or like I think that will be an idea. You can set up like a website or like, yeah, there's like some websites and apps that you can use for casting, but also I feel like if you have so there are a lot of videos on YouTube where it's like clips of a movie and that gets like, well, at least it gets me really hooked and try to find rest of the movie or something like that.
[22:19]So I would say you can make the shorts but then eventually turn it into a movie. Yeah, yeah, this would be good proof of concepts. Yeah, why not could be fun. I mean, honestly, that's how suddenly famous is here because I was like, why not do it. Like I'm not I want, I believe in this story, I believe in these characters, I want to get them out to more kids and I just did it in book form and you guys are just thinking outside the box in terms of like theatrical form and that's just something I haven't thought about yet, but that's a good idea.
[22:48]Actually, now that we're saying this out loud, we should do diary hovers this way. Why? It's just, it's meant to be book. She doesn't want to adapt our book.
[22:58]I think that famous would be a really good movie. Thanks. Me too.
[23:02]Because when they're like, I used to be like, not a book purse. I'm not really that much book person, but I really like this book series that you wrote, but like a lot of kids don't like love books, but get really hooked on like movies.
[23:17]Yep. So I think it would be a really good idea. Do you think there's a way for kids who love the book to spread the word to their friends? Because word of mouth is generous saying such a good idea.
[23:28]I know. I've got all like I've got a good crew, but like I live in Boston. I've got a lot of great Boston readers and they all talk and they spread the word, but I need to get outside of Boston.
[23:39]So actually at my school, we do like book talks every Wednesday and I actually did one. I can't famous recently. Thank you. Chris. I appreciate that. So we spread the word here. Thank you guys. Thanks. New York City.
[23:54]Well, you've we've Boston in New York City covered. There's just so these out there. We need to tackle. Yeah. Well, I'm happy. I know. I think I think that's why I think series are great because when you find when you love and then if the author keeps providing more and more, then you can just it's just more books like it's more stories to read before you go to sleep at night.
[24:12]And I'm sure you've tried. I'm sure you try a lot of books and keep an open mind, but some books hit differently with different readers, you know, and if you love, I feel like at your age, if you love fantasy, you're kind of golden. There's a lot of wonderful wonderful fantasy series.
[24:28]It's a little bit harder. Honestly, I think if you like contemporary fiction, especially if it's sort of lighter contemporary fiction, which is what I like to read as an adult.
[24:38]We've had some wings of fire recently, too. Just with my like, yeah, her younger brother is obsessed. So we've all started reading a little bit to see what the what the big deal is.
[24:49]Wings of fire is incredible. Percy Jackson is incredible. There's land of story. Like, there's so many great big fantasy series, but why can't we also do that for contemporary fiction?
[25:00]I think right if we've got this big like wings of fire has an amazing cast of big dragons with loads of different personalities and huge epic adventures.
[25:10]That's something to aspire to as far as I'm concerned, like a series with lots of kids, lots of adventures, lots of big challenges.
[25:17]Like we can have that in the real real world, too, as far as it's that's been my experience, like who knows what life is going to throw at you. Maybe.
[25:25]Okay, I'll stop what they do. But maybe I love them because I don't think I'm not as good. I'd love to write like I could write all day.
[25:31]I struggle thinking outside the box with marketing. I get like a little bit tied up and self conscious and then I kind of stop.
[25:38]I feel like with the summer camp audience, right, partnering with the different camps, partnering with camp advisors and maybe giving the book to like 50 campers at a certain camp and telling them to do something creative with it and see what comes out of it.
[25:56]It's kind of like you could do like a summer reading. I like a sleepily camp. That's a great idea. But it's like it's campus.
[26:02]Yeah, summer reading at sleepily camp and maybe you could maybe there'd be some incentives or something incentives like prizes or things that kids would get if they read it as there's some reading at the camp.
[26:13]Would that help you read if you weren't like, yeah, probably.
[26:17]Yeah, well, this is all very exciting and congratulations on figuring out how to totally entertain my daughter for hours, which I have about a two minute time where she tolerates me.
[26:31]No, I'm kidding.
[26:33]I hear that. Well, it's different what it's not your mom. It's like.
[26:37]So if I write a really famous, if I said you were rough draft, will you give me some honest feedback?
[26:43]Yes. Okay, she would be very excited.
[26:46]Oh, gosh. I always have to do it. See, but this is like good kind of pressure. But that's the problem with marketing is marketing also takes up a lot of time.
[26:55]So when you're trying to do it all yourself when you're trying like that's I think the biggest challenge of independently publishing that I'm finding right now is that when I'm trying to write, produce content, produce the book itself physically and do the marketing.
[27:09]It's pretty overwhelming. Well, if you wouldn't mind just finishing the rough draft before she goes to sleep away camp this summer.
[27:15]That would be great.
[27:17]It's April 22nd. You have like, you have a couple months. Okay.
[27:21]She's actually going in July.
[27:24]July 15th.
[27:25]If you give it to her as a gift and she can read it at camp. Okay.
[27:29]It might have to be like printed out on my printer at home, but will spiral.
[27:33]Find it and send it on its way. And then you can pass it off to all your bunk mates.
[27:37]And then that's how we, that's how we roll.
[27:40]Love it. Now everybody has a deadline.
[27:42]All right. Perfect.
[27:44]I do it.
[27:46]Nothing better than a deadline.
[27:48]Oh, my gosh. All right. Congratulations on camp famous.
[27:51]Suddenly famous, which is by her bed. So we forgot to bring it in.
[27:54]And yes, congrats. We're so excited. And in your corner. And here for all of it.
[28:01]Thanks. Okay. Next up is like central park with a TV crew.
[28:05]You got it. And a whole, a whole slew of actors. Yes.
[28:08]Okay. Good luck.
[28:10]Thanks.
[28:11]I was lovely talking to you.
[28:13]Thanks for the motivation because this is, this is why I do it. So keep going.
[28:18]Thank you.
[28:19]Thank you.
[28:20]I'll keep writing books for you to keep reading them.
[28:22]Bye.
[28:23]Bye guys. Nice talking to you.
[28:25]Thank you.
[28:26]Thank you for listening to totally booked with Zibi.
[28:29]Formerly, momstone have time to read books.
[28:31]If you loved the show, tell a friend, leave a review, follow me on Instagram at Zibi Owens.
[28:37]And spread the word. Thanks so much.
[28:40]Go and buy the books.