Tiffany Jenkins, A CLEAN MESS: A Memoir of Sobriety After a Lifetime of Being Numb
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[0:45]Tiffany Jenkins is the author of a clean mess, a memoir of sobriety after a lifetime of
[0:50]being numb.
[0:51]I could not put this book down, by the way, so good.
[0:54]Tiffany Jenkins is also the best-selling author of High Achiever.
[0:57]She uses her platform to help and inspire others who are struggling with motherhood, mental
[1:02]health addiction, and those who just need a good laugh.
[1:05]She speaks frequently about addiction and recovery.
[1:07]She lives with her family in Sarasota, Florida.
[1:10]Her latest book is a clean mess.
[1:12]Welcome to Vinnie.
[1:13]Thank you so much for coming on Totally Booked with Zibi to talk about a clean mess, a memoir
[1:17]of sobriety, after a lifetime of being numb.
[1:21]Congrats.
[1:22]Thank you so much.
[1:23]I'm excited to be here.
[1:24]Tiffany, I am obsessed with your book.
[1:26]I read it into settings, one of which was deep into the night.
[1:30]I could not put it down.
[1:31]Oh, I couldn't put it down.
[1:33]I just couldn't.
[1:34]And then as I was reading it, I was like, what is she doing that's so amazing?
[1:37]Why can I not put this book down?
[1:38]I read books all the time, but I just couldn't put it down.
[1:41]Oh, my goodness.
[1:42]I can't explain what a great compliment that is for me because I have the attention span
[1:47]of a net, which keeps me from sitting down to read books as much as I'd like.
[1:51]So hearing that feedback means a lot to me.
[1:54]I guess that's why I write it that way, maybe.
[1:56]I write it how I would want to read it totally.
[1:59]So why don't you share with listeners a little bit about your own experience and what part
[2:04]of your life this book talks about?
[2:06]Sure.
[2:07]So I am in recovery from addiction.
[2:10]This November, I'll have 13 years clean.
[2:13]So very prior to that, I was in a relationship with a sheriff's deputy.
[2:20]At the time, I was arrested for some crimes related to my addiction.
[2:26]Maybe to answer any questions about that.
[2:28]But this book picks up from the time when I left the rehab and entered the worlds without
[2:37]drugs and alcohol in my system for the first time trying to reintegrate with society
[2:42]as a semi normal person after a life of being numb.
[2:46]Oh my gosh.
[2:47]Well, your book, obviously, the vast majority of people have not also been in prison
[2:53]and have to get back on their feet.
[2:56]But everyone has had a moment like what you described in the book of leaving something
[3:02]great and what seemed like great behind and having everything else suddenly seem dull.
[3:08]Do you like after it when you're like, wait, this is life.
[3:12]This is life without drugs.
[3:13]And then this is motherhood.
[3:16]And what am I supposed to do with this?
[3:18]Is this life right?
[3:21]Is this it?
[3:22]Is this what I worked so hard to fight for?
[3:25]There was those moments of what is the point.
[3:28]If I'm going to be miserable, I'd rather be miserable and high, you know, having those
[3:33]moments, but finding the strength and utilizing the tools that I had been given, I think
[3:39]really helped get me through that time.
[3:41]But yeah, this was just, it was an inside look into my life after I got clean.
[3:48]So you talk about the experience of being in the halfway house and Mary, who's like
[3:53]your den mother of sorts, the house manager, your roommates, what it's like, day in and
[4:00]day out, secret dating while you're, so it's almost like you're in reform school or something.
[4:06]And yet you have to keep breaking out and roommates in college.
[4:09]I mean, if you change some of the backdrop, this could be in any new residential situation.
[4:15]And yet it's layered on with your sudden, you know, the transition and your struggles
[4:21]and all of that.
[4:22]Like, what was it like to go back and write about this time in your life?
[4:27]Like, what do you think about it now?
[4:29]Well, I, it was really, I've been writing this book for a few years.
[4:34]And I wasn't sure how to end it.
[4:39]And then life just made that decision for me, which ended up being, I feel like it's
[4:46]hard to talk about it without explaining the book.
[4:50]But basically, during the course of my sobriety, I experienced death, I experienced life
[4:56]and I experienced divorce.
[4:58]And so going back and writing about those times in the early halfway house was fun because
[5:04]I got to go through old texts and old pictures and revisit those moments.
[5:09]Thinking about the parts of my marriage, it was so fresh and so new that I wasn't sure
[5:15]initially how to write about it.
[5:18]I knew I didn't want it to be a salacious tell-all, but I knew that unfortunately this was part
[5:24]of the story that I had to tell to keep it as real and authentic to what I was going
[5:29]through at the time.
[5:30]So I had a whole roller coaster of emotions during this.
[5:34]Oh my gosh, your depiction of the fights that you and Colin had are so real.
[5:42]This is one of the best examinations up close of marriage because you would have these
[5:48]little fights and I would, as a reader, I was like, oh my god, this is the end.
[5:52]And then you have the next scene and he would apologize and you would apologize.
[5:56]I'm like, oh my gosh, few.
[5:58]This is okay.
[5:59]Look how they were able to come back.
[6:02]It was actually quite inspiring.
[6:04]It's almost like a mini class and communication, even though it may ultimately not have
[6:09]like yielded the results you wanted, like communication itself.
[6:14]Talk about that and even how you turned all that into narrative.
[6:20]So when I first went to rehab, I had to learn how to humble myself.
[6:25]I had to learn for the first time like, wait a minute, Tiffany, you're not right about
[6:29]everything.
[6:30]Like, there are some things you need help with.
[6:32]And so part of the exercise that I went through and rehab was examining my own part in
[6:38]each situation.
[6:39]Like, yes, I feel like this person did me wrong.
[6:43]But what did I do in that situation to contribute to it?
[6:46]And that has allowed me to really examine my part in these individual disagreements or
[6:52]whatever it may be and same with him because he went through recovery also.
[6:56]And so it's really nice when the fights or arguments do come to a nice ending, if you
[7:05]will.
[7:06]But I think a lot of it had to do with the therapy and the counselors that helped guide
[7:12]us through those times and helped us respond instead of react in those situations.
[7:20]And how does he feel about the book?
[7:23]So he's very, in general, like not much phases.
[7:29]The guy he could be standing in the middle of a lightning storm eating chips on bothered.
[7:34]Like he's just not bothered.
[7:35]So if he really does have fear or anything, he won't tell me about it.
[7:40]It's very deep down.
[7:41]I've offered for him to read it before.
[7:43]I've warned him a little bit of what to expect.
[7:47]But I wanted to write it in a way that didn't necessarily paint him as a bad guy despite
[7:53]some really bad choices because I don't want my kids to be in the library when they're
[7:59]older reading about their dad and be like, what a jerk, you know.
[8:02]So I tried to write it in a way that wouldn't traumatize them too much also.
[8:07]So when you, and you don't have to answer this, but when you got into his Apple watch
[8:11]and you were like, these are the worst texts I've ever seen, but then you didn't put
[8:16]in the book what they were.
[8:18]Why did you not?
[8:19]And tell me more about that.
[8:22]For me, it was like, don't get me wrong.
[8:26]If I'm sure if I gave out some details and stuff, people would be like, oh, this is
[8:30]so juicy.
[8:31]This is so good, you know, because people thrive on drama that isn't theirs.
[8:36]A lot of people do, not everybody, but you know, it goes back to my kids are going to
[8:43]read this.
[8:45]And I wanted to leave it ambiguous, and I don't know if that's ambiguous, yeah, yeah, okay.
[8:51]And big, you as enough to where you can put the pieces together yourself while writing
[8:55]it or while reading it, I mean, but you don't have the specific details.
[9:02]I don't think they were necessary to the story.
[9:04]I think people can use their imagination and, you know, the whole point of it wasn't specifically
[9:12]what happened to me.
[9:14]It was how I responded in those situations and how I didn't get high over it, which
[9:19]was made, like your strength throughout all of this is amazing.
[9:23]I should just say, truly, truly amazing.
[9:26]Thank you.
[9:27]I feel like I can't take any credit for it.
[9:29]It was truly my friends.
[9:30]No, not truly.
[9:31]You're like, not even going to let you know that.
[9:38]I really do.
[9:39]I feel, listen, I, if it was up to me, I would have robbed a bank.
[9:44]Run through the town naked.
[9:46]Like I was completely out of control of my emotions during this time.
[9:50]And it was my friend who were literally like, okay, Tiffany, you need to take a shower.
[9:54]You need to eat food.
[9:56]We're going to help you clean up.
[9:58]I, I felt like I was.
[10:00]a newborn again. For everything I thought I knew about life was flipped upside down and I didn't know
[10:05]how to act. Well, again, that's one of these moments that I know so many people would relate to,
[10:10]even if the circumstances are different. And whether it's some sort of loss or betrayal or whatever,
[10:17]it's the way you wrote it. You know, there's that whole thing like the more specific you get,
[10:21]the more universal it is. I feel like that's what the story really showcases.
[10:26]That's amazing. You're writing also about postpartum depression was so good. And just how you were
[10:32]like, I don't know if I want to be a mom anymore. Talk about that time of your life, it was so dark.
[10:38]It really was to the point where looking at photos from that time in my life brings me back to that
[10:46]and gives me a really dark feeling because all of the things that you're supposed to experience
[10:52]after having a child, you know, joy, bliss, excitement, hope. I didn't feel any of the positive
[11:00]emotions. I felt only negative. And it was hard because she was born, my daughter was born with
[11:08]colic in a dairy allergy and acid reflux. So she was screaming from sun up to sundown. And I don't
[11:13]care how good of a parent you are. It's hard to bond with a baby that is constantly in distress.
[11:20]And so it got really dark. I didn't want to talk to my husband about how I was feeling because I
[11:26]didn't want him to regret knocking me up in the halfway house. Yeah, I did. My friends all looked
[11:31]happy with their children. So I felt like I couldn't tell them because I didn't want them to call
[11:35]and have my kids taken away. That was a huge fear of mine. But it was to the point where I didn't
[11:42]want to be a mother. I resented my children for existing. I wanted to leave them in their cribs
[11:47]and run out of the house. And I know it sounds shocking and terrible, but it was just my truth.
[11:52]And it was important for me to tell that part in the book. Because I'm sure that there are
[11:58]mothers out there who are like, why aren't I happier about this? It isn't just oh, I'm tired and,
[12:06]you know, leaking from everywhere. This is not fun. It's a dark, dark thing. And there's different
[12:13]versions of it, too. There's postpartum anxiety, postpartum psychosis. And so it's something that I
[12:19]think, you know, more people should talk about so that if somebody does feel those emotions,
[12:23]they're not like, wait, I'm a monster. They're like, wait, I've seen this before. There's help
[12:28]available. And even when you were on the staircase at one time where you're like, I could just leave
[12:33]my kids. I'm just going to leave them. I'm just going to go outside and like sit on the staircase
[12:36]for like a minute with the kids screaming and sitting there and then being like, oh, no, of course,
[12:41]I'm going back inside. Right. Just that moment where you just have to get out and recalibrate yourself.
[12:49]Absolutely. Yeah, parenting is not for the faint of heart, but it's obviously, you know,
[12:55]the coolest thing I've ever done. I mean, yeah, it's the coolest. I think I have to say that as
[12:59]a parent. It's definitely, I've done a lot of cool stuff since I quit drugs, but you know, having
[13:05]my kids really was a huge part of why I think I was so successful in my sobriety.
[13:11]Because it was no longer just about me, which is why the story in which I got pregnant in the
[13:17]halfway house is so crazy and on paper looks nuts, but it was it was it was one of the best things
[13:25]that ever happened. By the way, what happened to the woman who hired you who was also three
[13:31]months pregnant? Are you still in touch with her? Yeah. So I guess I worked there for
[13:36]through both of my pregnancies. And she's wonderful. We we don't talk any more since I stopped
[13:43]working there after my daughter was born, but she was a huge part of me getting back on my feet.
[13:49]I was able to work and save money and get an apartment and get a car and, you know, them giving
[13:55]me that chance, even though on paper, there was an astronomical amount of felonies. I really
[14:02]am just so grateful for the people who did look at me and say, okay, this person isn't a loss
[14:06]cause they have a past, but we'll give them a chance because that chance really allowed me to blossom.
[14:13]You also point out how structurally the system of jail and probation and everything is just not set
[14:20]up for success. And you talked about how you saw so many repeat people coming like being released
[14:25]and coming back in and how you got out and you're like, well, if you release people from jail and
[14:29]you have no money and you can't get a job cause you have to tell everybody you're a felon,
[14:33]like what are we supposed to do? How is this, you know, how do you feel about all that?
[14:38]Yeah, it definitely isn't easy to react with me to the world and understandably, right? Like if you
[14:48]have a company that is your livelihood and you have people applying all the time and then someone
[14:53]comes in and is like, hey, I know it says I have 20 felonies from last year and I am a thief,
[15:02]but hear me out. I am not that way anymore. You know, it's understandable that people would be like,
[15:10]we're not going to take the chance. This is my business. This is my livelihood. I wanted to write
[15:15]about that so that people could see like, you know, I understand the hesitation, but I also feel
[15:22]like when you are coming out of jail, especially from a drug addiction, chances are you've spent
[15:27]every penny on drugs prior to getting arrested. And when you get out, you have lost the trust of your
[15:34]loved ones. You've lost respect from everybody. Nobody wants to help you because you are a loose
[15:40]canon. And I think that, you know, these programs try their best to help people, but it's a catch
[15:48]22. I'm processing this as I'm saying it out loud because while I do feel like we should, you know,
[15:53]you should give felon and people in recovery who want a chance, a chance, I also completely
[16:00]understand it's something that has to be proven from that person that they're capable.
[16:07]And it's that only comes with time. And so there was a lot of people who helped me when I came out
[16:13]of rehab. And I will forever be grateful. There was people who furnished my apartment. There
[16:18]was people who picked me up and drove me to meetings. They gave me opportunities to make money.
[16:23]And I, you know, I will be eternally grateful to those people who gave me a chance.
[16:28]And your dad, you wrote so beautifully about your dad and how he wrote, you'll post guard every
[16:33]day in jail. And he was just there. And when he went to the parking lot and met you when you
[16:38]did that is swap in the parking. He's like, I just want to make sure that you're okay. Oh, my gosh,
[16:44]that whole through line. What a sweetheart. Oh, thank you. He said, thank you. Like I made him,
[16:50]he's the best. He is the reason that I am clean. And so we're today because if it wasn't for him
[16:57]coming to visit me in jail and telling me that this is from the first book, but which by the way,
[17:04]you don't have to have read it to understand the second book. They're independent. But, you know,
[17:09]there are some throwbacks in the second book to the first book, but he came and visited me in
[17:15]jail and told me that he loved me no matter what. And he had faith in me. And, you know, that he
[17:19]believed I could do it. And at that time, I was so low. And I didn't have any hopes. So having
[17:24]him give me a little bit, somebody who knew me before my addiction saying, I know you're in there,
[17:29]I can help you. I had saved my life. A little bit of love during my darkest time truly saved my life.
[17:36]Well, your whole arc and I won't, you know, go into everything, but oh my gosh, what is amazing?
[17:41]Dear dad, he's so much. He's amazing. I love him. I owe so much to him. And he's actually right
[17:47]over here. I keep him in my office. I don't know. Maybe I shouldn't say that. I do this
[17:54]spoiler. But yeah, he's wonderful. And that was a weird thing to say out loud about him being in
[18:00]here. I should have thought that through people are like, what? She keeps him in the oven.
[18:05]I mean, I've got my grandmother right over there. So I'm feeling better. I literally am like,
[18:11]there she is next to her picture. So in the book, you talk about how you also developed this
[18:19]internet personality, this blog, you know, all the things that happened alongside it. So can you
[18:25]explain? I know you said the doctor said, what I started a blog and then you started posting and
[18:30]describe what's happened and how you've created this whole thing on the side, if you will.
[18:36]I have no clue what happened. Honestly, I started writing about motherhood.
[18:44]And then when I crossed over into, I was like, you know what, I'm going to talk about my time in
[18:49]jail. And just, I'm going to be honest about it. And I was releasing a chapter a week on my blog
[18:54]at the time. And people started swarming. They were in shock. They were captivated. And I wasn't
[19:00]expecting it. And before I knew it in a few months, I had a million followers. And then I started
[19:06]making videos in addition to the addiction stuff, comedy videos and people, what happened was
[19:13]people would see the videos and be like, Oh, she's silly. And she's funny. I'm going to go follow
[19:16]her. And then they get there and be like, wait a minute, she's an addict. How is this possible?
[19:22]She looks so happy. And, and I think that's where everybody began to come over to my page. But
[19:28]things, you know, escalated very quickly overnight. And I wasn't expecting any of it. I wasn't
[19:35]mentally prepared for any of it. And there are times which I didn't want to talk too much
[19:40]about that part of my life in the book. Because I feel like most people are like, Okay, we can't,
[19:45]this is, we can't relate to that at all. And it doesn't apply to us. So I briefly wanted to mention
[19:51]it because truthfully, it is a huge part of who I am. I have social anxiety. I have generalizing
[19:57]anxiety. I have all these things that,
[20:00]like, are the opposite of what I've done.
[20:03]I like to be alone.
[20:04]I like to be quiet.
[20:05]I don't like talking to people.
[20:07]I don't like being up on stage,
[20:09]but my job is a comedian and a speaker
[20:11]and an author who travels around talking.
[20:14]Might I suggest a different line of work?
[20:17]I don't know.
[20:18]I know.
[20:18]Well, I'm getting confused.
[20:20]I don't know what the future has in store
[20:23]and that's what's so crazy to me is even though I have no clue
[20:28]what the future has in store,
[20:30]as long as I stay away from drugs and alcohol,
[20:34]it'll be amazing and I know that for sure.
[20:37]So back to the writing.
[20:39]So what did you, how did you do this
[20:42]in such a way that like I was trying to analyze?
[20:46]The way you ended chapters was always cliffhangery.
[20:49]The chapters were relatively short.
[20:51]You gave us like a mix of dialogue
[20:54]and your internal thoughts at the time.
[20:57]You told it like a story.
[20:58]We had two timelines going.
[21:02]Like how did you do this whole thing?
[21:05]And did it all just come really naturally
[21:07]because the product in the reading was like quite seamless.
[21:12]That's incredible to hear.
[21:14]I'm not even sure how to respond.
[21:16]Honestly, I am surprised to...
[21:20]It's just, I don't know.
[21:22]It's hard to hear this kind of feedback
[21:24]because everything in me is like,
[21:26]I mean, it's not that great.
[21:28]Like I didn't, seamless is a big word.
[21:31]I'm not saying this is gonna,
[21:34]this is like the literary achievement of like the 21st century
[21:39]or whatever, but I'm just kidding,
[21:42]I'm literally like the most immersive
[21:45]can't put down book and there
[21:48]and that is really hard to do and really valuable.
[21:53]Thank you.
[21:54]I am just dramatic in general
[21:57]and so I think that when I ended the chapters,
[22:00]I wanted people to keep reading and come back
[22:02]and see what comes next because it is a whole story
[22:05]and I didn't want it to be where you're reading
[22:08]and it doesn't suck you in enough
[22:10]to where you put it down and then don't pick it up
[22:12]for a few weeks.
[22:12]I needed people to be addicted to it
[22:16]and to finish it because it is a whole story
[22:18]and I think that's how I wrote it.
[22:20]I wrote it in a timeline of flashbacks
[22:23]because I don't know.
[22:24]That's how I did my first book.
[22:25]That's just how I do things.
[22:26]I like things to be a surprise.
[22:29]I like to keep people guessing and wondering
[22:31]and it's how I do it and it's just what I enjoy.
[22:35]I don't know.
[22:37]It blows my mind because again,
[22:39]I didn't graduate high school.
[22:41]I and not that you have to graduate high school
[22:45]to be good at things,
[22:45]but for me, the fact that I put words together
[22:49]that formed paragraphs that people are enjoying
[22:53]is a surprising, wonderful gift for me.
[22:58]Wow.
[22:58]Well, you deserve it.
[23:00]It's really awesome.
[23:01]Thank you.
[23:02]What is coming next true?
[23:03]You're hosting two different podcasts.
[23:05]Right?
[23:07]You tell me then you have this book coming out
[23:10]and you are you going on tour again?
[23:12]Like tell me your whole thing
[23:13]and what the future,
[23:15]at least the short term future is holding for you.
[23:17]The short term future.
[23:18]Yes, I've got my two podcasts right now.
[23:20]This book launch is one of the biggest things going on
[23:23]in my life other than that.
[23:24]I don't know what else I'm doing.
[23:27]I am following my heart and pivoting.
[23:31]So where comedy sketches and skits online used to be my thing,
[23:36]I'm feeling more pulled towards helping addicts
[23:40]in recovery at this point in time.
[23:44]Whatever that looks like.
[23:45]So I'm thinking about going back to school
[23:47]and thinking about getting certified.
[23:49]I'm thinking about all these different things.
[23:51]And one day I will put it into action probably maybe.
[23:55]Have you read Lara Love Hardin's book,
[23:57]The Many Lives of Mama Love?
[23:59]I haven't.
[24:00]Oh my gosh.
[24:01]She'll have L's.
[24:02]It is a lot of L's.
[24:03]She's amazing is about her time in prison.
[24:05]And she was like this, you know, beautiful mom,
[24:08]suburban mom and who would have known and blah, blah, blah.
[24:11]I have to, you two have to do an event together.
[24:13]Okay, you have to put you in touch.
[24:15]You're welcome to do it at my bookstore,
[24:16]but you just have to do it anywhere.
[24:18]I would love it.
[24:18]That's amazing.
[24:19]And I would love to check out her stuff.
[24:21]I think reading from like-minded people
[24:24]who've been through something similar is amazing.
[24:27]So what advice do you have for aspiring authors
[24:30]or just for people trying to overcome anything?
[24:34]Take your pick.
[24:35]I'm gonna do the author one because my first book,
[24:38]I submitted it to a bunch of publishers
[24:41]and they weren't interested and that's okay.
[24:43]I ended up publishing it myself.
[24:45]I googled how to write a book,
[24:47]how to format a book, how to self publish a book,
[24:49]and then I just did it.
[24:51]And it ended up selling incredibly well, you know,
[24:55]for whatever reason, I got lucky
[24:57]and then it ended up being picked up by a publishing company.
[25:00]So to me, I feel like if somebody has a story to tell
[25:03]no matter who you are, no matter what your background is,
[25:06]you gotta tell it.
[25:07]And if you feel like it won't make a difference,
[25:11]like I had moments of self doubt,
[25:13]who's gonna care, who's gonna read this,
[25:14]but I did it anyway.
[25:16]And I think that the purpose of our stories isn't for us.
[25:23]I think we experience these things
[25:25]so that we can show other people that they aren't alone
[25:28]and we know a way out.
[25:29]And so if you have a story to tell, tell it,
[25:31]if you wanna write, just start writing
[25:33]and if Google is a great tool,
[25:35]if you don't know what you're doing,
[25:38]no, I can YouTube my way through anything.
[25:40]Exactly.
[25:42]Tiffany, thank you so much.
[25:43]I'm so impressed and thank you.
[25:46]Thank you and congrats.
[25:47]Well, thank you so much for doing such an incredible job
[25:50]of, you know, being thorough and reading it.
[25:53]And, you know, you could tell that you put a lot
[25:56]of time and energy into your work and what you do.
[25:59]So that when these people show up,
[26:01]you are aware of what they're doing.
[26:03]And I think that's really important.
[26:04]It made me feel really special
[26:06]and I appreciate you and what you do.
[26:08]Thank you.
[26:09]Well, I told you, I could not put it down.
[26:10]So there you go.
[26:11]Thank you so much.
[26:13]All right, thanks so much.
[26:14]Take care of you.
[26:15]Okay, bye.
[26:16]Thank you for listening to totally booked with Zibi,
[26:19]formerly Momstone have time to read books.
[26:22]If you loved the show, tell a friend, leave a review,
[26:25]follow me on Instagram at Zibi Owens
[26:28]and spread the word.
[26:29]Thanks so much.
[26:30]Oh, and bye the books.