Mary Catherine Starr, MAMA NEEDS A MINUTE!: A Candid, Funny, All-Too-Relatable Comic Memoir about Surviving Motherhood
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[0:44]Mary Catherine Starr is the author of Mama Needs a Minute, a candid, funny, all-too-relatable
[0:50]comic memoir about surviving motherhood.
[0:53]She is an artist and graphic designer, her popular Instagram account at momlife underscore
[0:58]comics, explores motherhood marriage, and the double standards of parenting through
[1:03]funny, relatable, and sometimes maddening comics.
[1:06]She lives on Cape Cod, Massachusetts with her husband, their two children, and her son's
[1:10]large collection of plastic dinosaurs.
[1:12]Welcome, Mary Catherine.
[1:13]Thank you so much for coming on Mama Needs a Minute, a candid, funny, all-too-relatable
[1:18]comic memoir about surviving motherhood.
[1:21]Thank you.
[1:22]Thank you for having me.
[1:23]I'm excited to be here.
[1:25]This is the perfect time to talk about this book and the unrealistic expectations of modern
[1:31]motherhood, which you literally paint a picture of, all the illustrative picture of, I should
[1:37]say, in the book, talk a little about what this book is about, how it came to be, and we'll
[1:43]go from there.
[1:44]Yeah.
[1:45]Well, the book obviously came to be because I became mom, and very quickly learned how
[1:50]expectations for mothers are insane, and it's one of those things I think you really
[1:54]can't even begin to scratch the surface until you're in the experience, until it's happening
[2:00]to you.
[2:01]And so I pretty soon after becoming a mom was in crisis mode.
[2:07]I mean, I know everyone gets theirs at different times, but my first child didn't sleep
[2:13]for 14 months, and I just went right into that.
[2:17]Well, everybody goes through their, like, really hard few months at the beginning, but mine
[2:20]was like 14 months of sleep deprivation and anxiety, and I'm an anxious person, I hit
[2:27]me really hard, especially not sleeping.
[2:29]And I think that, like, just that first year of motherhood was so traumatic for me that
[2:34]even though my daughter's now eight, I'm still recovering from it.
[2:38]And I really think this book was kind of born out of that first year, that the trauma
[2:42]of becoming a mom and learning, although totally beautiful and wonderful as we all know,
[2:48]the trauma of kind of learning what that means in our current culture with our current societal
[2:52]expectations and the setup of our homes and the expectations of moms and, you know,
[2:57]a big focus for me and my work over the past couple years has been kind of talking about
[3:01]household, inequality, the mental load, invisible labor, all of that wonderful stuff.
[3:07]So all of that kind of led me to writing this book, you know, that early, the early
[3:12]experience, and then, honestly, every single year after that of just, as my kids get older
[3:16]learning more and more about how hard motherhood is.
[3:19]I mean, we need to say something that will not make parents feel so depressed hearing
[3:25]this.
[3:26]It gets easier.
[3:27]It really does.
[3:28]And I think, you know, I'm so important to be always to say, like, the undercurrent of all
[3:32]of this is like, I love being a mother more than anything in the world.
[3:35]And I know we all, you know, we always say that, but I think it's because I'm writing
[3:39]and I'm speaking to mothers.
[3:40]And I'm always talking with that assumption that we all know that, you know, because obviously
[3:46]I wouldn't trade it for the world.
[3:47]I mean, maybe that's not obvious, but I really wouldn't.
[3:49]I love being a mom so much.
[3:51]And I think that's what makes this so hard, you know, if it wasn't enjoyable, we wouldn't
[3:56]all feel so confused, you know, but we all we've heard about is the good stuff.
[4:00]And then when you become a mom, the really hard stuff can really hit you like a ton
[4:04]of bricks.
[4:05]I think a lot of us, especially now, because I think that it just keeps expectations
[4:09]from moms just keep getting higher and higher and more and more amped up the more that
[4:12]we're expected to be able to do and the way we're expected to be able to do it all.
[4:16]And yeah, I just think that we, again, we're not talking about that enough or maybe we
[4:21]don't want to talk about it to new moms because it is depressing.
[4:25]But I think it's a really, it's a very important truth of the state of motherhood right
[4:29]now that I'm glad people are finally talking about and I'm happy to be a part of that conversation
[4:34]because I think we need to have it.
[4:35]Well, I think new motherhood in particular is challenging.
[4:40]My twins are 18, very soon and by the time this comes out, they will be 18.
[4:46]And I still remember like trying to figure out the nursing schedule and thinking, well,
[4:52]this does not fit in with modern life at all.
[4:56]I understand how back in the day you could sit in your cave and nurse whenever, but like
[5:03]nobody else is slowing down to make room for me and my baby's nonsensical schedules.
[5:08]And that's really hard to square with a life that is so regimented as all our lives have
[5:15]to be.
[5:16]Yeah, I totally agree.
[5:17]And I think in addition to just the basics, like the physical demands of motherhood, you
[5:22]know, and the scheduling demands of motherhood, I think the other really big part for me
[5:26]that I really explore in this book is just that the way in which it affected my relationship
[5:31]with my marriage.
[5:32]Yes.
[5:33]And you know, my book traces, it really traces my relationship with my husband.
[5:36]We met in college, we were college sweethearts and it traces kind of our relationship
[5:40]from meeting in college all the way up until having two kids.
[5:43]And it talks about, you know, how do we go from being a very egalitarian couple who,
[5:48]you know, washed the dishes together every night and did our laundry side by side and
[5:51]cleaned our house together.
[5:52]How do we go from that to this place where I felt like, despite really loving my partner
[5:57]or despite feeling like we were on the same page about so much, feeling like I was doing
[6:02]it all, you know, and feeling really resentful and angry and overwhelmed and feeling frustrated
[6:07]that it didn't becoming a parent didn't change his life the way it changed mine.
[6:11]And so that's a lot of what I explore in this book too.
[6:13]And you know what I'm still really focused on because I think that that to me, I think
[6:19]is sort of the lingering effects of parenthood, especially those hard early years is that
[6:25]we're still trying to kind of find our way back to where we were before we had kids.
[6:29]And that's a really hard journey.
[6:30]And so, you know, I think it's all, it's all really important to me.
[6:33]I think the way that it affects relationships, the way that it affects moms and dads differently,
[6:37]the way that it affects every facet of your life as a woman.
[6:40]You know, I think all of that to me is just this conversation that I'm so interested in
[6:44]having with as many as people as I can because I'm still, I feel like so many of us
[6:48]are still processing it and learning about it.
[6:50]And it's something that I think our generation of women is really exploring in a way that's
[6:53]never been explored before.
[6:54]I'm happy for that, but I think we have a long way to go.
[6:57]I'm happy that you shared it and you did so in a such a playful way with the illustrations
[7:02]and of course the accompanying text and all of that tells the full story, but you did
[7:07]it with a sense of humor as opposed to some books which come across as just very angry,
[7:12]which I understand people have a right to be angry.
[7:15]But your book gets the same point across in a playful, but hey, let's think about this
[7:20]way.
[7:21]I'm a stack of laundry in his and look at what's on my plate and what's not on my head
[7:25]since plate.
[7:26]And we need to see the imperfections and the communication problems so that we can realize
[7:33]like, oh, other couples are talking about this and struggling with this too.
[7:37]And it doesn't necessarily mean that it's my relationship.
[7:40]It's my situation.
[7:41]Yeah.
[7:42]And I think that that's for me has been the most eye opening part of, you know, I started
[7:46]making these comics back in 2020 when I was, you know, feeling really overwhelmed even
[7:51]right before the pandemic.
[7:52]But then the pandemic hit and they became kind of a therapeutic outlet.
[7:55]But when I started making them, I really, I didn't know how kind of classic my story was,
[8:00]how universal it was.
[8:01]I really felt like there was something wrong with me or there was something wrong with
[8:04]my marriage or there was something wrong with my personality.
[8:07]Maybe I'm just not able to do this mothering thing in the way that everybody else is because
[8:11]it's so hard for me.
[8:12]And I think that's what I learned really quickly through the comics is that, you know,
[8:16]of course, this is very universal.
[8:18]So many mothers feel this way and so many people in their commitment partnerships feel
[8:21]this way about, you know, after having kids about feeling really unequal and one person
[8:25]feels like their whole life's been flipped upside down.
[8:27]The other person doesn't, you know, I really learned that quickly.
[8:29]Like, oh, this is something people all over the, I mean, I was getting messages from moms
[8:33]all over the world when my comics started kind of getting out there saying like, I live
[8:37]in, you know, I live in Botswana and we have the same exact issue here.
[8:40]You know, it's like, I just didn't realize it was something so universal.
[8:43]So I think for me that's been, that really has helped me so much.
[8:46]And I mean, it's galvanized me, but it's also really, really helped me to normalize
[8:51]this.
[8:52]I don't think normalizing means accepting it, but to know that it's not, I'm not the problem.
[8:56]It's bigger than me.
[8:57]So now let's talk about why that is and what we need to do about it or what we can do
[9:01]about it.
[9:02]And what can we do about it if you were to devise, if you were to devise the perfect world,
[9:07]what would it look like?
[9:08]Well, I should be clear.
[9:09]My book does not give it answers.
[9:10]It's not a step.
[9:12]I'm just, I'm putting you on the spot now.
[9:14]Yeah.
[9:15]I realize it does not have the secret of life in your book, but I just thought we'd
[9:17]want people to know, I'm not mixed, but I'm just someone who struggled with this.
[9:20]But I think, you know, for me, so much of it starts at the beginning.
[9:23]And I think right now, at least in the US, our culture is not, our societal structure
[9:30]is not set up to support parents at all and particularly mothers.
[9:33]But, you know, I think starting from the very beginning, I think that we should have equal
[9:37]amounts of parental leaves.
[9:38]I think that's a really basic thing that could help so much.
[9:42]And not just given that, you know, that amount of leave in our employee handbooks, but
[9:46]actually encouraged to take it so that we can really be equal partners.
[9:50]I think on paper, a lot of places do say, oh, yeah, moms and dads, both get the same amount
[9:54]of time.
[9:55]And then when it comes down to it, dads are looked down on if they take more than a week
[9:57]or something.
[9:58]So I think that, you know, is a really good thing to do, but I think that, you know,
[10:00]really easy place to start.
[10:01]It's like let's get both parents more involved
[10:03]from the beginning.
[10:04]But then I think what I think are pretty basics,
[10:06]like maybe making sure we have universal pre-K
[10:09]or more affordable childcare,
[10:10]these things that allow moms to work
[10:13]without feeling completely like they're taking
[10:15]a huge financial hit or allow both parents to work
[10:19]if they choose to or able to or want to,
[10:21]all of those things.
[10:22]But I think some of these real basic
[10:24]to me societal structures that a lot of other countries
[10:27]do have, I think we could start there
[10:29]just from the beginning to make it a little bit easier
[10:31]for parents.
[10:32]So that's my hope.
[10:32]But I think a big part of this too is dads need to step up
[10:36]and dads, we need to be educating our children
[10:41]that someone, I forget where I read this,
[10:43]but someone said moms and women have been told
[10:46]our whole lives now that we can have it all.
[10:48]But what we haven't taught is we haven't taught the boys
[10:51]what that means for them in order for women
[10:53]to do both things or have it all.
[10:56]What does that mean guys need to do?
[10:57]And they can't just, it can't stay status quo, right?
[11:00]They really have to step up in the home.
[11:01]And so that's another part I think of the puzzle
[11:03]is like really starting to educate our men
[11:06]and our boys about what it means for them.
[11:08]If we want to have women be more active part of the world
[11:11]and have the workplace, which I do,
[11:13]I think most of us do, then we really need men
[11:15]to take an active role in the home.
[11:17]And I think that's right now not something
[11:20]that not an expectation that culturally we have for men.
[11:23]Even though this generation of fathers at much more,
[11:26]quote unquote, involve and hands on and ever before.
[11:29]Well, I think it'll riffle down to
[11:31]even the smaller steps that men are taking
[11:34]when the boys see and they can model
[11:36]and they have someone's behavior
[11:38]that they can pattern theirs after.
[11:40]I think that will be helpful.
[11:41]Yeah, I think it's not something I'm hopeful.
[11:43]I'm very, I'm very, I think I don't think
[11:45]we were having any of these kind of conversations
[11:47]and on a more of a mainstream level.
[11:49]Like we are now, you know, I think books
[11:52]about, you know, the equal household,
[11:54]evening out the household load and the mental load,
[11:57]those are becoming that sellers.
[11:58]You know, people are talking about this.
[11:59]There's so many books about, you know, female rage
[12:02]and anxiety and all of this stuff
[12:04]that I think plays into this conversation.
[12:05]So I'm hoping that the more that we talk about it
[12:08]and the more that people write about it
[12:10]and people like you have us on podcast
[12:12]that will become more of a cultural conversation
[12:15]that sticks around.
[12:16]So what does your day to day life look like?
[12:19]How much time do you spend drawing?
[12:21]How do you draw is it on the computer?
[12:23]Is it by hand?
[12:24]How much do you spend writing versus childcare?
[12:28]Like what is your day?
[12:29]What is your life like?
[12:30]Well, this year is the first year both my kids are in school
[12:33]on the same schedule.
[12:34]They're both in like our public school nearby
[12:37]and go to the same school.
[12:38]So this is the first year I've had like an actual normal
[12:42]quote unquote normal work schedule.
[12:43]So they go to school and I work all day.
[12:46]But I'm kind of like you and then I have a lot
[12:47]of different business where a lot of different hats.
[12:49]So I'm, you know, make my comics and I'm posting those.
[12:52]I also have a sub stack where I post comics.
[12:55]And then I do a lot of sponsored comics
[12:57]or collaborations with like my did brands
[12:59]or other content creators.
[13:01]And then I run a graphic design business.
[13:03]So I'm also doing that with a partner.
[13:04]So we have that going, teach you a good evening.
[13:06]So, you know, every day is a little different.
[13:08]Like it's a lot of just, okay, what's on the docket today?
[13:11]I try to, you know, try to batch my work and focus.
[13:14]But I'm doing a lot more drawing now than ever before,
[13:17]which I love.
[13:18]It's, you know, that's my happy place.
[13:19]And I love it because I can listen to audio books
[13:21]and podcasts while I draw.
[13:22]So that's always fun.
[13:24]But yeah, so I'm still, you know,
[13:26]probably like you doing a lot of different things
[13:28]on a daily basis,
[13:29]but I wouldn't have it in the other way.
[13:30]Well, I love doing it that way
[13:32]because I feel like I would get bored otherwise.
[13:34]I love to jump around and try things and switch gears.
[13:39]Like I like switch gears.
[13:41]And every time I get overwhelmed and I'm like,
[13:42]oh, I've got to let something go.
[13:43]I look at all this stuff.
[13:44]I'm doing it.
[13:45]I go, well, no, can't let anything go.
[13:46]Not gonna happen.
[13:47]No, but I'll do much.
[13:48]So, you know, here we are.
[13:50]And teaching yoga too.
[13:51]Wow.
[13:52]Not only teach two classes a week these days.
[13:53]It used to be a lot more,
[13:54]but, you know, I haven't even done two yoga classes
[13:57]in like the last two years.
[13:58]So the fact that you teach two weeks.
[14:01]Okay, it's time with adults and humans.
[14:02]I work from home by myself.
[14:04]I'm just a lot of drawing.
[14:05]So it is nice to be out with other people.
[14:07]Everyone's allowed.
[14:08]And how do you do the drawing?
[14:09]Because yeah, yeah.
[14:11]I use just a little tablet.
[14:12]You know, it's like, it's like,
[14:13]it's not, it's um, I plug into my, into my Mac
[14:15]and it's just like a little digital drawing tablet.
[14:18]And really, I mean, I got it in 2020
[14:22]and I got it because I had like an Apple gift card.
[14:23]And I was like, huh, what should I use this for?
[14:25]And this looks cool.
[14:26]And I'm so glad I did because it really changed my life.
[14:28]I mean, that's why I started making these comics
[14:29]because I was like trying out this new drawing tablet
[14:32]before that I've been more of a fine artist.
[14:33]And I was like, I'm gonna start, you know,
[14:35]seeing a pecking draw on this,
[14:36]teach myself how I'll draw on this.
[14:37]And then I kind of opened this whole new world to me.
[14:39]So very thankful.
[14:40]And I never thought I'd be like a digital artist.
[14:42]I always thought like, no, I need the real stuff.
[14:45]But it's amazing.
[14:45]I love it.
[14:47]And that allows me to create so much more quickly.
[14:49]And yeah, it's really fun.
[14:51]And how do you, in your graphic design business,
[14:54]what are you making?
[14:55]Like logos and posters?
[14:56]Are you doing like, like, what?
[14:57]Yeah, yeah, I just love those marketing materials, branding.
[15:00]We do websites, stuff like that.
[15:01]So I've been doing that.
[15:02]That's been kind of my, you know, my day job for many years now.
[15:05]And it's great.
[15:06]You know, I have, it's just another mom
[15:08]who's my business partner, good,
[15:09]a good, front, long time friend.
[15:10]And so we can scale it up and scale it down.
[15:12]And you know, in the summers, we stop taking any new clients
[15:14]and just kind of keep it smaller.
[15:15]And so it's great.
[15:17]It's, you know, like you said, like it's, it's nice to,
[15:19]it keeps me from getting bored.
[15:21]It's nice to have other other outlets
[15:23]for my creativity besides just the comics.
[15:24]So that's good.
[15:25]Yeah, amazing.
[15:27]So what advice would you have for someone
[15:29]who is undertaking a creative project like yours?
[15:32]Well, I think the most important thing for me
[15:34]is just like to keep creating.
[15:36]You know, I've had lots of different iterations
[15:39]of my life as an artist.
[15:41]You know, when I came out of school,
[15:42]I was focusing on oil painting.
[15:43]And then I started doing like greeting cards
[15:45]and I started doing custom art for people.
[15:47]You know, it's been all different things.
[15:48]Sometimes it's graphic design.
[15:49]So now it's comics.
[15:50]But I say if you're a creative person, you know,
[15:52]just keep creating.
[15:53]And I think that's really hard, especially for moms.
[15:56]And because being creative is like such a part
[15:58]of my self expression and my way of like my therapy,
[16:01]you know, some people journal, I don't journal, I create.
[16:03]And so I think that's just always what I tell people
[16:06]like if there's anything, if that's important to you
[16:08]and that's a part of your life,
[16:09]which I think everybody has some sort of creative practice
[16:11]maybe it's cooking, but to just make time for it.
[16:14]And I know that's so much easier said than done
[16:16]when you're especially in the early years of motherhood,
[16:18]but anyway that you can, even if it's just small little bits,
[16:21]that's, I think that's really what's enabled me
[16:23]to kind of get to this place where I'm able to do it much
[16:25]more for my job, because I just never stopped creating.
[16:28]Maybe I didn't have a choice.
[16:29]It's kind of like that internal drive,
[16:32]but yeah, I think that makes a huge difference.
[16:34]Have you ever talked to Jess Johnston
[16:36]who wrote Perfect Is Boring and it tastes like kale?
[16:39]No, and I've never been heard of that book.
[16:41]Okay, so I just had her on right before you.
[16:43]And I was joking with her that she needed to start a line
[16:47]of greeting cards with some of these sayings
[16:49]about how life for moms doesn't have to be perfect.
[16:52]So I think I should put the two of you in touch.
[16:54]Yeah, that's amazing.
[16:55]Okay, well, last I've tell you,
[16:57]I just love the name of what this podcast used to be.
[16:59]And I'm not a time to read books,
[17:02]I think that's so true, but also like reading is the best
[17:06]when you're a mom, it's such a perfect escape.
[17:07]And I just, I love that message.
[17:10]Thank you.
[17:11]Well, I will always be an unofficial subtitle.
[17:14]Yes, it's amazing.
[17:17]Well, thank you so much for coming on.
[17:18]I loved our core club event together
[17:20]and getting to meet you on person.
[17:22]And you were just so articulate
[17:23]and I can't wait to see and obviously just so talented
[17:26]and I can't wait to see what the future brings for you.
[17:29]I'll be following along.
[17:30]You're really watching, so congrats.
[17:32]Thank you and thanks for everything you do for female authors
[17:35]and authors in general, you're amazing.
[17:36]Thank you.
[17:37]Okay, all right, bye bye.
[17:39]Bye.
[17:40]Thank you for listening to totally booked with Zibi,
[17:43]formerly mom's don't have time to read books.
[17:46]If you loved the show, tell a friend, leave a review,
[17:49]follow me on Instagram at Zibi Owens
[17:52]and spread the word.
[17:53]Thanks so much.
[17:54]Oh, and bye the books.