Amber Rae, LOVEABLE: A Memoir: One Woman’s Path from Good to Free
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[0:45]Amber Ray is the author of Loveable, a memoir, One Woman's Path, from Good to Free.
[0:50]Amber Ray is a best-selling author and speaker, best known for books, choose Wonder Over
[0:54]Worry, and the answers are within you.
[0:57]She's also the creator of the feelings journal, a tool that transforms the way you
[1:01]engage with your emotions.
[1:03]Her writing and illustrations reach 9 million people per month, and her work has been
[1:07]featured in publications, such as The New York Times, New York Magazine, Today, Self Fortune,
[1:12]Forbes, and Entrepreneur.
[1:14]As a keynote speaker and teacher, Amber has worked with companies such as Kate Spade,
[1:17]Meta, Microsoft, and Ted.
[1:19]Amber lives in Los Angeles with her husband, John.
[1:22]Welcome, Amber.
[1:23]Thanks so much for coming on totally bucked to talk about Loveable, or Loveable, we can
[1:28]discuss.
[1:29]It's path from Good to Free, congratulations.
[1:33]Thank you so much.
[1:34]You're the only person to read the title both ways, and I appreciate that deeply about
[1:39]you.
[1:40]Oh my gosh.
[1:41]Well, when you mentioned it, I hadn't thought about it until the end when you were
[1:45]talking about, like, are we able to love, are we able to accept love of ourselves?
[1:49]And I was like, oh my gosh, love able, that's amazing.
[1:52]And then I noticed the underline, and I was like, I get it, I totally get it.
[1:57]You actually tell us in the book, and I just want to read this little thing about why
[2:00]you wrote the book.
[2:02]And then I want you to expand on that.
[2:05]But in your page called Baskets, you say, and old Proverbs says that when we come into
[2:09]this life, our parents hand us two baskets, one full of burdens and another full of blessings.
[2:14]It is our task to lighten our basket of burdens and add to our basket of blessings.
[2:18]At the end of our lives, we hand down our own baskets to the next generation.
[2:22]Why are you writing this book?
[2:23]People often ask me, because I need to, I say.
[2:26]the real answer is this, I'm writing this book for me so I can heal, so I can lighten
[2:30]my basket of burdens by making sense of my history, so I can hopefully pass on more blessings
[2:36]to my children.
[2:37]I love that.
[2:38]I love how I said children.
[2:42]I know, right?
[2:43]I only currently have one.
[2:46]I don't know.
[2:47]That's interesting.
[2:48]Because you have one really.
[2:49]Can I really do this again?
[2:51]Let's delve into that, shall we?
[2:54]You look poor.
[2:55]Let's go for it, though.
[2:56]Let's see in our Zoom room.
[2:57]I need a little therapy, right?
[3:01]Oh my gosh.
[3:03]You tell listeners about this extraordinary moment, this change of your life, this decision
[3:10]you made that affected so much else and the uncovering of so much of what you had in the
[3:15]past.
[3:16]Just talk about the whole thing.
[3:17]Yeah, so four years ago, while married, I met the person that I knew I was meant to spend
[3:22]my life with and little context, it was a unfulfilling marriage, I was married to my
[3:30]best friend.
[3:31]He was never my romantic partner and I was desperately trying to convince myself that he
[3:35]was my person and we could make this work and I can make this work and if I just try harder
[3:39]and put more time in and do more therapy and read another book, you know, we'll make
[3:44]him my business partner.
[3:45]We'll figure it out and it was one of those instant sliding door moments where I met
[3:50]this other person and I had this kind of electric bloom inside me of, wow, okay, this
[3:59]is what it's supposed to feel like and it felt like hello again.
[4:03]It felt like this, you know, they say love it for sight, it really felt like recognition
[4:07]at first sight, like I see you and I know you and even though I don't know you, I love
[4:12]all of who you are and it felt like we both were kind of feeling that and that moment
[4:19]kind of woke me from my slumber because it's so easy for me to say now that, oh, he's
[4:24]my best friend on my romantic partner, da da da da da da, in hindsight, but I was still
[4:29]trying to convince, I was still very much in the convincing and so when I met him, it
[4:34]was like that whole house of cards burned down and I suddenly was seeing reality very
[4:40]accurately.
[4:41]Oh my gosh, well, the, the subtle questioning, I mean, that is marriage if you're in this
[4:47]institution forever and if it's not going well, like the work you're talking about, like
[4:51]that's what everyone kind of has to question.
[4:55]I don't know.
[4:56]Yeah.
[4:57]And you said for context, by the way, I am divorced and remarried and had, okay, I won't
[5:02]even go into details, but I, I found my soul mate as well the second time.
[5:06]So I related to it, sorry, I know it's so fun.
[5:09]Hold on, I wanted to read one more passage if you don't mind, of course.
[5:14]So when you talk about the lack of acknowledgement that when you're in a marriage that
[5:19]maybe isn't fulfilling, you're grieving the loss of the expectation of a fulfilling marriage
[5:25]all along.
[5:26]You can actually be ready for the next thing because you don't have to go through that
[5:29]and you write that better than I just rambled it.
[5:32]But you say he stands, grabs his bag and looks back at me one last time before he walks
[5:36]out the front door.
[5:37]I expect grief to overwhelm me in this moment, but instead I met with relief.
[5:41]I realized later that the gnawing ache that had been growing in me slowly and steadily
[5:45]over the years, that was grief, the hundreds of micro moments of saying it's fine when
[5:50]it was really not fine, the constant pleading for emotional connection, for meaningful
[5:55]time together, telling him again and again that I needed his actions and words to line
[5:59]up so I could feel safe only to be disappointed time and time again when they didn't.
[6:03]The truth is I have already processed this loss, the anger, the sadness, the disappointment,
[6:08]the hope, the despair.
[6:09]I grieved our marriage while I was in it and now that I have spoken my truth, I feel
[6:14]free and at peace.
[6:16]I love that so much.
[6:19]It's so good.
[6:20]It totally.
[6:21]Thank you.
[6:22]Explain so much.
[6:23]Tell me more about that.
[6:24]Yeah.
[6:25]You know, I expected when he left to feel, you know, I almost like was like, in my eyes,
[6:31]I was almost like there's almost shame there that I didn't feel grief or didn't feel
[6:34]more sadness about it ending.
[6:36]But it was the realization that like, wait, no, I grieved this in it.
[6:41]And I think, you know, when I when I share that with women, it's been interesting to hear
[6:45]how many women are like, oh my God, I've been grieving it too.
[6:49]And you know, I just I don't know if that has to do with our conditioning, you know,
[6:54]the good girl, the tolerating, I'm going to please, I'm going to harmonize, I'm not going
[6:59]to rock the boat.
[7:00]I'm going to try to make this work, but yeah, you know, when I finally made the decision
[7:05]of I am going to honor myself, I am not going to disappoint myself.
[7:11]And I'm going to have to tolerate the discomfort of disappointing someone and hurting
[7:14]someone that I do care about and love, but who's not right for me.
[7:19]It's the amount of peace there is like, oh, you know, the relief there of you have spent
[7:26]so much time just pushing down what's important to you.
[7:31]And it was like my soul and my spirit and my body and everything were kind of like,
[7:37]finally, you know, like you did the thing, yes, like we don't need to keep feeling all
[7:43]of those feelings.
[7:44]Now we're just kind of like you did it.
[7:47]This is right.
[7:48]This is true.
[7:49]This is aligned.
[7:50]Let's go.
[7:51]It's so amazing.
[7:52]And the fact that you found him that there were so many coincidences, I mean, your book
[7:57]made me feel like the universe has my back.
[8:00]Do you know what I mean?
[8:01]Like all these dreams where people visited you and the messenger and the messenger and
[8:06]the psychic and like just like the same middle names, like it's just every chapter
[8:10]there was something else that like made you too destined.
[8:13]So how do you feel about, I mean, I know this can sound a little woo-woo to some people.
[8:18]Yeah.
[8:19]How do you feel about that are like just make sense of it for me?
[8:24]Well, it's funny because I had to leave a lot of synchronous cities and charities out of
[8:28]the book because there were so many, I kept saying like to a girlfriend and even to
[8:34]John, I was like, I feel like I am in a film at an any moment, like I'm going to see
[8:40]a camera set or like Ashton Kutcher is going to come running out and be like, punked, you
[8:45]know, it was like, and if I had put all of the serendipities into the book, it would have
[8:50]made way too cheesy of a book that like would have just been a terrible read.
[8:54]So I like, you know, I tried to like weave some of them in because they were they were
[8:58]true.
[8:59]But you know, it was the wildest experience I ever had in my life in terms of serendipities.
[9:04]And you know, if I told you the name of my ex-husband's new wife, you would be like,
[9:08]I'm sorry, what?
[9:10]But we'll leave that out.
[9:11]We know now.
[9:12]I need to know.
[9:13]Put it in the Zoom chat or something and then I share a last name and it's same for
[9:18]first initial.
[9:19]Oh my God.
[9:20]Yeah.
[9:21]And so it's just, you know, it's like the universe, like it's just like, it was bizarre.
[9:27]And I feel like because, you know, and I consider myself a spiritual person and I've always
[9:34]been someone who kind of like looks to clues and signs.
[9:36]I do, you know, my father died when I was young and I feel a greater connection with him
[9:40]since he passed like he got in a car accident when I was three and had a traumatic brain
[9:45]injury and so it was not capable of having a connection with me while I was here.
[9:48]or while he was here.
[9:50]And so I do feel his presence now that he's gone.
[9:53]And so, you know, I've had those feelings but it was as if the universe was like, all right,
[9:59]we're going to make it.
[10:00]sure you pay attention. We are not going to let this pass you by. We're going to be like,
[10:06]obnoxious with the science, like the shooting star at the right moment. You know, we're going to
[10:14]make you be like, okay, I'm listening. And so that my experience as all of these these things
[10:21]we're unfolding was, okay, I hear you. I'm listening. I've got it like message received. And it's
[10:27]funny, you know, John's last name being messenger, you know, literally is like in our son was born
[10:33]on 10-4, which means, you know, 10-4 message received. And so it's just, I feel like I was like,
[10:42]message received. I hear you. I'm listening. Yes, I'm not going to keep ignoring myself and ignoring
[10:47]my intuition. I'm going to act. I'm going to listen. It's amazing. You know, you share in the book
[10:54]really openly in a way that I haven't read anywhere else about your own insecurity about your
[11:01]body and sexuality, right? Like John had been with all these women in the past. I'm sure most,
[11:06]I mean, that sounds bad. I mean, including some pictures of, I mean, you know, whatever. Anyway,
[11:13]you're not the only one who like worries, right? About exes. That's why everybody's like stalking
[11:18]all their exes. Facebook, whatever. Anyway, so you came into it with a sense of sexual insecurity,
[11:25]not sure what you were going to do. Were you doing it right? Like, how would you do it asking a friend
[11:30]for that really funny? Nice. Like, talk about that moment, but also putting it down into this book.
[11:36]Like, do you, how do you feel about it now? Like, do you get embarrassed or not embarrassed?
[11:41]I mean, I remember recording the audio book and I was blushing in moments. I'm actually,
[11:46]I'm actually recording a video with a friend tonight of moments. I'm nervous that are going to
[11:52]be published because, you know, it's one thing to like write your truth alone and now the world's
[11:57]going to read it. And, you know, my husband's like telling his sister and mom, okay, there's these
[12:01]two chapters in the book. You might want to skip over and they're like, we're not doing over,
[12:04]but he's like, oh, you know, it's, and there were, you know, here I was in a nine year
[12:10]sexless marriage. And I leave that marriage and now I'm with someone who's very connected to
[12:15]a sexuality. And I feel so disconnected from that part of myself. And so it was terrifying
[12:22]because I was like, oh, no, if I can't, you know, I, the narrative is if I can't satisfy John,
[12:28]well, you still want to stay. And so there was, I was not prepared for the gamut of fears and
[12:36]anxieties and insecurities that were going to arise when I finally stepped into relationship
[12:40]with my person. But, you know, I guess that's what relationships do may inspire our growth.
[12:45]Well, it, it was really wonderful to have you say it because I'm sure people
[12:49]following you are reading it or look at you, like, would think like, oh, well, I'm sure she
[12:53]well, she, what does she have to worry about? You know, it's, but compared to me or whatever, and
[12:57]everyone, you're being able to say it just makes everybody feel better. I just know it. So,
[13:02]okay, thank you. You also go back and really unpack all like, this is like a master class in
[13:11]unpacking like the trauma of youth and putting yourself back together. You literally like peel
[13:15]every piece of the onion and figure out like what need young you was not getting filled. How do
[13:22]you go forward? Why do you pick a partner based on what you didn't get? Like, what do you do with
[13:27]all that information now that you have it about yourself? Like, I know you can live more freely,
[13:32]but just tell me more about that. Yeah, I can absolutely live more freely. I also just feel like
[13:38]I'm making more conscious choices because on the other side of that nine year relationship,
[13:44]here I was a person in the world writing books and speaking on stages about following your intuition
[13:48]and living your most authentic life. And I was doing that in my career, but like, I wasn't doing
[13:53]that in my relationship. So here I was like giving wisdom and not applying it to an area of my life,
[13:58]and not because I was intentionally pretending, but because it wasn't conscious. And because I
[14:04]didn't realize the patterns that had been driving my behavior. And so when I left that relationship,
[14:10]I was like, how the hell did I get here? What like, did I really just like put up with that for
[14:18]nine years and like, he was a wonderful person, but like, did we put up with that dynamic? Why
[14:23]did I put up with that dynamic? And I needed to understand for just my own like person and woman
[14:34]how I had gotten there and what had led to that. And so of course, that's where a lot of the
[14:38]unpacking comes about. But you know, the process and even just writing this book because it helped
[14:44]me process and connect the dots so much. It was like, I was connecting dots as I was writing
[14:50]stories like, oh, God, that's what, oh, and it just I think has me be more aware and makes me
[14:58]make choices that are actually right and true and helps me live a more intentional and honest
[15:06]life, which I think is reflected in everything that I create and in the life I want to lead and
[15:11]everything else. That's amazing. Oh my gosh, so good. When you talk about your grandparents and
[15:19]your relationship with them and there's this fabulous moment where Graham is telling you, okay,
[15:24]just like block your stepdad and you're like, I'm going to pick him. I'm like, go Graham, like, who
[15:28]are we casting in the movie for Graham in this scenario? Right? It was so awesome. Like, set to
[15:34]generate or whatever, like a leaving role. Tell me a little bit about, you know, when you think about
[15:40]your grandparents and this sort of inherit all the stuff that trickles down, like just how do you
[15:45]feel about those roles in your family? And, and also, you know, I know in the book you talked
[15:51]about doing podcast interviews and like having a secret and feeling uncomfortable and not wanting
[15:55]to get off. So I'm hoping that you do not feel like that in this conversation. There were no
[16:00]secrets. There were no secrets. There were no secrets. All right, good. Just saying, you could
[16:02]spill them now. Like it's totally fine. So anyway, I mean, I feel like I spilled, I like told you
[16:06]the name. I was like, maybe I shouldn't have said the secret of the, the new wife in her name. I was
[16:12]like, maybe I didn't know. That was the only thing I was like, maybe I shouldn't have said that.
[16:15]You should say whatever. It's all good. Okay. But tell me a little more about Graham and the effects
[16:23]of, you know, her and being cheated on and standing up to that and then your mom and her
[16:29]relationship and then you and your relationships, like, how do you make sure like you have your new
[16:34]baby August? Like, how do you, what are you going to teach him? Like, how do you, is this something
[16:39]you can teach? Or are these things just so inherited? I'm kind of rambling here. But
[16:43]yeah, I think it's things that we have to model. And so this also answers your last question
[16:48]around like, why did I heal? And it was like, because I wanted to model to my son,
[16:54]nervous system regulation, because I wanted to model to my future children what real love looks
[16:59]like, because I, you know, how, how what it takes to make the hard choices to be okay with
[17:04]disappointing others. So you don't disappoint yourself and all those things. But my Graham,
[17:08]you know, she was, she's just like the warmest blanket. My grandma is, you know, we were,
[17:13]we've been so close. We're still so close. I'm so grateful she's still here. We're able to meet
[17:18]my son. And, you know, I was raised by a single mama entrepreneur who had me very young. And my
[17:26]grandmother had her very young. And we were kind of like this little like the three of us. And
[17:34]when I did believe and was on the other side of that nine year relationship,
[17:38]asking myself, how the hell did I get here? One of the questions I asked is, what did I learn about
[17:41]love? And then had me get really curious and realize that all of the women in my family line
[17:47]that I know of have been left by men in very betraying ways. But also they betrayed themselves
[17:53]because they overstayed. And they stayed in dynamics and situation that they knew they had outgrown
[17:59]or were not right or, you know, for whatever reason. But they didn't either, in their words,
[18:03]have the emotional strength, the financial resources, or even the like internal knowing to leave.
[18:10]And so they waited until the man left in, you know, a betrayed way. So, you know, my grandfather
[18:16]on one side, you know, had an affair, many affairs and eventually left my grandmother for the
[18:23]secretary. My other grandfather left grandmother for the best friend. You know, so there were
[18:29]all these stories are really like, wow, okay, our, our family line story of love actually
[18:35]is with a little, a lot of like hurt and heartbreak and, but it's also because no one was really
[18:42]being honest. No one was voicing what was most true. No one was, maybe they didn't know their needs,
[18:48]they couldn't speak their needs, you know, everything else. And so, you know, I know the question
[18:51]was about grand, but it was very curious to just to look at that larger story and to be like,
[18:57]I'm going to, I don't want that to be the story. You know, if I would have had a child,
[19:02]thank God, I didn't, with my ex partner, like, I'm curious, maybe I would have continued that
[19:08]family legacy. Maybe, you know, we would have, not that anything's wrong with divorce. I think,
[19:13]you know, people are like, I stayed for the kids. I'm like, don't stay for the kids. The kids don't
[19:16]want you to stay. This kid's wanting, you'd see living your mother authentic life. Anyway, I'm
[19:21]you talk about feeling selfish for articulating your own needs and how there's this whole trope
[19:28]of the selfish woman who leaves the husband to pursue love. How do you get people to realize
[19:36]like how you wrote it that it isn't necessarily selfish to give yourself joy and all of that.
[19:44]Why don't you say it better? Well, no one benefits. No one wants to be in a relationship with
[19:48]someone who's happened half out. So, you know, in no one benefits when we are not prioritizing
[19:55]our needs, not valuing our wants, not choosing ourselves, not honoring our
[20:00]ourselves. Like it impacts the self and it impacts the couple. And so choosing yourself, choosing
[20:06]your joy, choosing what lights you up, choosing what moves you, choosing to speak your needs, choosing
[20:12]to have the hard conversations is not selfish. I don't believe I think it's self-honoring. And I think
[20:18]our culture has a lot of issue with women who are self-honoring because the narrative is that you put
[20:25]yourself last. And, you know, I invite, how do we actually, the, you know, the, the plane oxygen mask,
[20:34]you know, I got to put my oxygen mask on first. I have to honor myself so that I can fully show up for
[20:40]everyone else. I'm going to use that for now on. Anytime selfish gets bandied about in any context,
[20:45]I'm going to go right to self-honoring. Self-honoring. That's like, what would the world be if everyone
[20:54]honored their joy, honored what moved them, honored their needs? Like, I think we would have a far more
[21:00]beautiful vibrant, less violent, more joyful world. Hard to be more violent. It's not going to get
[21:09]it worse. No, I shouldn't do it. Anyway, did I say more violent? I meant less violent. No, no,
[21:14]no, I was saying it's like, I feel like we're at the, anyway, you write in the acknowledgements that
[21:21]you're grateful to John because he's a very private person for letting you write this. And I was
[21:25]really surprised, honestly, to read that at the end because everything was so open. And they're
[21:32]tell me about that. Oh, yeah. I mean, thank God he's an artist because he believes you can't get
[21:38]in the way of art. And he really saw this book and the way it moved me and the, that might urgency
[21:43]to tell it. And that like, knowing of this is the story I have to tell and he honored that. And
[21:48]to be honest, he stayed completely out of my creative process early on. And for good reason,
[21:53]early on, I would be like, can I read you a draft? And it was like, I was like, do you like it?
[21:58]It's good. It's like, and he's like, I don't feel like it's helpful for me to be in your
[22:04]writing and editing process. And I don't want you looking to me of like, do you think this is good
[22:10]enough? Because like also he has very different literary tastes than I do. And he's like, you need
[22:14]to write this book in the way that is right and true for you. And you can like, let me read a
[22:19]draft at the very end. So I literally, and thank God he, because I was a little like frustrated
[22:24]at first. I was like, I want to share my create, my creative work is such a part of me. I want to
[22:27]share it with you. Because it talked to me about the process, but I don't know if you have to like
[22:31]read the words. And he was like, very, had a very clear boundary around that. And I am so glad because
[22:37]I probably would have written different book because I didn't want to be like, well, John,
[22:42]think this essay is okay. Like, I mean, the sex scenes I wrote, like, the, the, see, I wouldn't,
[22:48]you know, no, he would have been like, absolutely not. I'm so uncomfortable with that, you know? And
[22:53]I then just wrote it in the way that I wanted to write it in the way that I wanted to tell it. And
[22:59]you know, he was the first reader of the final thing. And he was like, this is very, you know,
[23:05]this is uncomfortable. But also, I like love you. I believe in your art. And I support,
[23:13]I support this, you know, being out there. So I was just, and he has such a private person. So
[23:17]it's been, it's been, you know, it's been interesting. But it's also, I feel like encouraging like
[23:24]opening things for him, like, you know, bringing more vulnerability into his work. Because, you know,
[23:30]his, I can't, there's, without going into too much detail, like his art actually kind of explores
[23:36]different personas in different, what are they called? You know, when, like, an artist has a different
[23:41]name, what do you mean, different medium or something? Or like, send it, send it anyway, but like,
[23:46]the student in, like a student in, yeah, it's bringing more, I feel like vulnerability into his
[23:53]work. So it's cool to see how we, you know, push an influence one another. Is he going to come
[23:57]with you on your book tour? I feel like he will be hit. He will be coming on the book tour. And so
[24:01]we'll August becoming another book tour. Oh, yeah. Amazing. Um, well, Amber, I loved this book so much.
[24:10]I feel like you and John and my husband kind of, and I just like, go to dinner. We can share
[24:15]stories. We can't share on the podcast. Um, or something. Anyway, thank you for sharing. Thank
[24:21]you for your authenticity. And I just loved it. And it's been great getting to know you. Thank you.
[24:26]Thanks, babe. Okay. All right. We'll take care. Yeah, you too. And I'll see you in. I'll see you
[24:31]with the book story. Yeah. I can't wait. Yeah. All right. Okay. All right. Take care. Thank you for listening
[24:37]to totally booked with Zibi formerly momstone have time to read books. If you loved the show,
[24:43]tell a friend, leave a review, follow me on Instagram at zibi Owens, and spread the word.
[24:49]Thanks so much. Oh, and buy the books.