Emma Heming Willis, THE UNEXPECTED JOURNEY: Finding Strength, Hope, and Yourself on the Caregiving Path
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[0:45]Emma Hemingwellis is the author of The Unexpected Journey, Finding Strength Hope and Yourself
[0:49]on the Caregiving Path.
[0:51]Emma and I recorded this in-person, which was super fun.
[0:54]Emma Hemingwellis is a mother, stepmother, wife, advocate, and co-founder of Make Time Wellness,
[1:00]brand devoted to women's brain health.
[1:02]After her husband, Bruce Willis, was diagnosed with Fronto Temporal Dementia.
[1:06]She became a passionate voice for care partners and families navigating neuro to generative
[1:11]disease.
[1:12]Through her storytelling and advocacy, Emma hopes to help others feel less alone on the
[1:15]caregiving journey.
[1:16]This is her first book.
[1:18]Welcome, Emma.
[1:19]Thank you so much for coming on Totally But To Talk About The Unexpected Journey, Finding
[1:24]Strength Hope and Yourself on the Caregiving Path.
[1:26]And it's your pub day, so congratulations.
[1:27]It's my pub day.
[1:28]Thank you so much.
[1:29]Thank you for having me on.
[1:30]And it's my pub day.
[1:31]Yes, yes.
[1:32]You've had quite a pub day.
[1:34]This is like not the normal pub day.
[1:35]Oh, it's so good.
[1:36]All the shows.
[1:37]All the rounds.
[1:38]How does that fit for you?
[1:39]It's definitely been a whirlwind, but I'm so...
[1:43]I'm just so grateful for the interest in this book because I just feel like it's such
[1:47]an important topic.
[1:49]So I am thrilled that, you know, with just the rollout of this whole thing and I just
[1:55]want to get in as many hands as possible.
[1:57]But I think you're going to accomplish that.
[2:00]I have no idea.
[2:01]But the mission of your book is so giving and you can tell from the way you tell about
[2:06]your love affair with Bruce Willis and you're giving back and you're mothering and all
[2:11]of that that you could do this from such a good place.
[2:14]And that's not always the case.
[2:16]So this authenticity is just...
[2:17]It's so amazing.
[2:18]Oh, thank you so much.
[2:19]Thank you.
[2:20]It hasn't been an easy journey, but you know, when you are navigating this, you know,
[2:27]when someone who has dementia and it's someone that you love, you just want to just
[2:31]wrap your arms around them and just care for them as best as you can.
[2:35]So one of my favorite parts of your story and your story is very public that Bruce Willis
[2:40]has fronted out temporal dementia.
[2:42]You can call it FTD.
[2:43]FTD.
[2:44]It doesn't roll off the tongue.
[2:46]And you have become an unexpected caregiver for a life that was not what you had planned.
[2:52]Nobody plans this, of course.
[2:54]And you've had to adapt in so many ways and you've become a spokesperson on top of everything
[3:00]else, as if you didn't have enough on your point.
[3:02]I mean, my gosh, you're like a glutton for punishment.
[3:05]But you have one scene where you've just spoken at a conference and you go backstage
[3:10]and you're like, this is so hard and you just cried with some other woman.
[3:14]I think Tracy.
[3:15]Yeah.
[3:16]Tell me about that and just the pressure on all sides.
[3:19]Yeah.
[3:20]I had gone to this FTD conference, this research conference with scientists and clinicians.
[3:27]And this was an Amsterdam and it was, you know, 750 people in attendance.
[3:32]And this event happens every two years.
[3:34]And what's so great about it is that it brings together all these researchers to share
[3:39]sort of new findings in FTD because, you know, there hasn't been a lot, but I'd flown
[3:46]out to this event to be able to be there.
[3:48]I was a keynote speaker.
[3:50]I was on a panel and I was participating in the caregivers day just to be there with other
[3:56]caregivers.
[3:58]And it's a four day event.
[4:00]It's a lot.
[4:01]And I just remember on the third day I went into it was a breakout room.
[4:08]And this really incredible advocate, her name is Katie Brandt was just giving this really
[4:14]incredible presentation.
[4:16]And she was speaking to new FTD caregivers.
[4:21]And I just remember being in that room.
[4:23]I was sitting in the back and I was just watching these new caregivers just hanging on
[4:28]to every single word that Katie was saying and just writing down note after note after
[4:33]note because those early stages of FTD are so complicated and they are so hard.
[4:40]And I walked out of there just sobbing.
[4:46]And I met with another researcher Tracy and she was like, how are you doing?
[4:51]And I just completely broke down.
[4:54]And that was actually the end of my, I was supposed to stay one extra day.
[4:58]And I was like, I just can't do it.
[5:00]I think I've reached my max.
[5:03]And that was what that scene in the book was was that it just becomes, it does become
[5:09]heavy.
[5:10]And I am navigating this in real time.
[5:13]And you know, I'm trying to advocate and learn how to do that.
[5:17]But I also have to like make space for myself because I am human, you know, having a very
[5:23]human experience and just trying to just be mindful and, you know, just care for myself
[5:29]a little more that maybe four days is maybe too much.
[5:32]But maybe now I know I can do two days and, you know, you just kind of learn to sort
[5:37]of know what your, what your band with is.
[5:40]Well, throughout the book you talk about taking care of yourself is one of the main priorities.
[5:44]In fact, that's one of the goals of the book is to encourage caregivers to make time
[5:50]for them.
[5:51]Eat, right.
[5:52]Do the things that they will survive longer and be able to care for the people that they
[5:55]love.
[5:56]So I feel like that is such a good example of you just walking the walk, which is, it's
[6:00]just really great.
[6:01]Yeah.
[6:02]I mean, you just have to sort of, yeah, see what your limits are.
[6:05]And you don't know until, until you know, but yeah, that is like the main theme of this
[6:09]book about, you know, caregivers realizing that if they don't care for themselves, that
[6:16]it is going to be really hard to continue to care for their person the way they want to
[6:20]and to be able to sustain the journey.
[6:23]So I didn't know that early on, you know, I wasn't, I definitely wasn't caring for myself.
[6:28]I was putting my husband's needs above mine, our children's needs, if I mean, that's also
[6:33]what we do as women, right?
[6:35]Like, and I had spoken to Bruce's neurologist and he had told me about the statistic of
[6:42]caregivers passing before their loved one.
[6:45]And that really just shook me to my core because I had never heard that before.
[6:51]And it was my wake up call.
[6:53]So my hope is that in this book, there are a couple of wake up calls to caregivers so that
[7:00]they really can learn that caring for themselves isn't selfish, but it's self-preserving.
[7:06]I love that.
[7:07]And actually, your kids became advocates for this as well, which I loved and you wrote
[7:11]about this.
[7:12]There was one moment, let me just get it right, where one of your daughters said, mom,
[7:17]you have to get out and touch the grass, which I just loved.
[7:22]And that you also say, you said, you know, sometimes you feel badly about parenting through
[7:27]this crisis.
[7:28]Of course, how does anybody know?
[7:29]And you said, I also let the girls know, is it okay if I read from this guy?
[7:32]Yes, please.
[7:33]I also let the girls know that I've never been a parent before.
[7:36]And the scenarios and situations I'm navigating as a parent and caregiver are all new.
[7:40]I feel like I'm making it all up as I go that allows them to understand that I am human.
[7:45]And I'm not on some parental pedestal, so I don't have that far to fall.
[7:48]Yeah, that's true.
[7:49]I love that.
[7:50]That's true.
[7:51]Yeah.
[7:52]No, my girls can see when I am while in tight and that was Evelyn, who was like, mom, please
[7:56]just get out and touch some grass like you need to get outside.
[7:58]And I'm like, no, you're right, and you need to be sometimes reminded, unfortunately,
[8:02]so it was by my 11 year old.
[8:05]But it was a healthy, it was a healthy reminder.
[8:08]But yeah, I mean, they are doing the best they can in an impossible situation.
[8:15]And you know, I have a chapter in there about parenting while caregiving.
[8:21]And I really love that chapter because it was an expert that I had worked with who helped
[8:26]me to just learn how to communicate with our daughters and be able to, you know, bring
[8:31]them through in just the healthiest way.
[8:34]And you know, she really breaks things down so well about, you know, when you tell them
[8:39]about a diagnosis, you wait for the questions that they might ask.
[8:44]And you know, you know, you know, your child better than anyone.
[8:47]But you know, then you sort of, the point is is that it's important to be honest.
[8:52]And I think sometimes, you know, my thought was like, I'm going to lie, I'm not going
[8:57]to say the whole truth.
[8:58]I'm going to try and figure, but that's actually not the way to do it.
[9:02]It's important to be able to be honest with them.
[9:04]So I really love that chapter because I just think it really, the expert in there who helped
[9:10]me so much just really laid it out in such a beautiful and understandable way.
[9:15]Well, often when people talk about the sandwich generation, they don't talk about moms
[9:20]with young kids at home and pre-teens and going through all of that.
[9:24]I mean, I have four kids and that's hard without caretaking for anybody else.
[9:28]So the added stress is that is just a lot.
[9:31]And you give really great advice also at the end about what to say to kids and how
[9:36]to help someone through this, which I thought was wonderful and a bit counterintuitive.
[9:43]You say, don't say you've got this, it can feel dismissive because honestly, I don't
[9:49]always feel like I do.
[9:50]Instead, what truly helps is hearing, I'm here for you no matter what.
[9:53]You're not alone in this and I know this isn't easy, but you're showing up with so much
[9:58]strength and love.
[9:59]So that was advice to friends.
[10:00]just but I think it applies everywhere.
[10:03]They don't, you don't got it.
[10:04]Nobody has it and you don't have to have
[10:06]that sort of false encouragement.
[10:09]Like meet people where they are.
[10:11]Yeah, and especially as caregivers.
[10:12]I mean, I think that we're also just like thrusted
[10:15]into this role with no, no knowledge.
[10:19]I mean, for me, I didn't, I didn't know anything
[10:22]about caregiving, little loan dementia.
[10:24]So you are really just kind of learning on the fly.
[10:27]And sometimes I don't know if I have it.
[10:30]I still don't know if I have it
[10:31]because things are constantly shifting and changing.
[10:34]So, you know, even though that was for family and friends,
[10:37]yes, we want your friends just to be supportive
[10:40]and encouraging.
[10:42]I think that's so important while you're going through it.
[10:46]And you have, of course, this added stress
[10:48]of being in a public family, having to talk about it,
[10:52]not how do you, making the decision to talk about it,
[10:54]finding community, which you also talk a lot about
[10:56]in the book, which is beautiful and how important it is
[10:59]for people to be on your side
[11:01]and know what's going on with you.
[11:03]But you face scrutiny in every action
[11:06]and even in the book, you're like,
[11:07]maybe I shouldn't say this,
[11:08]I'm going to get in trouble for this.
[11:10]And then I saw you achieve may being like,
[11:12]I knew I was going to get in trouble for this.
[11:13]I knew I was going to get in trouble for this.
[11:14]I was going to get in trouble for this.
[11:15]Did you tell that?
[11:16]No, I already knew.
[11:16]I mean, I knew by putting some of the information
[11:19]into the book that, you know, I was going to get judged.
[11:21]But it's okay.
[11:23]I think these are, these are happening in families
[11:26]all the time where we have to make these really difficult
[11:30]decisions and, you know, caregivers get judged.
[11:33]They really do.
[11:34]And I think just seeing how some of what, you know,
[11:38]we've put out there as a family to then see just like
[11:42]the scrutiny or judgment or whatever.
[11:44]I just think it's an interesting kind of like
[11:48]social experiment, right?
[11:50]Where you can just see that if we're being judged
[11:54]for doing something that was right and safe, you know,
[11:58]for our, for our family, you know,
[12:01]imagine what it's like for others who are doing it too
[12:06]as well and just trying to just make making the best
[12:10]decisions that they can.
[12:11]But, but caregivers at the end of the day,
[12:13]they, they do get judged and it's so sad
[12:15]because we're already judging ourselves.
[12:17]We're already hard on ourselves as caregivers.
[12:19]So it's really hard to hear it from, from others too.
[12:23]Well, I like that you can own your decisions
[12:26]and be a model of doing what's right for you
[12:28]and your family because it is hard.
[12:30]No one knows what they'll do under stress.
[12:32]Yeah.
[12:33]And you talk a lot about loss because this is such a
[12:36]complicated thing to deal with.
[12:39]We're not good as people doing with grief as it is.
[12:42]And as you say in the book, it's really an ambiguous loss
[12:46]where he's, you know, slipping away and it's not,
[12:51]he's there and you, you debate sort of with,
[12:53]I think it was with who was it, Patty?
[12:56]Oh, Dr. Pauline Boss.
[12:57]Yes.
[12:58]Who coined the term ambiguous loss?
[13:00]Yes. Yeah.
[13:01]So talk a little bit about that.
[13:03]How do you cope with the grief itself?
[13:06]Right? You have the caretaking.
[13:07]You have the grief.
[13:08]You have the parenting.
[13:10]But this is something that you have to sort of come
[13:12]to terms with and you have to mourn the life you thought
[13:14]you were going to have.
[13:15]Yeah. I mean, you know, I feel like I'm consistently grieving.
[13:19]It's not that you grieve and you continue to move on.
[13:22]It's a process.
[13:24]And I feel like what's been so helpful for me is being able
[13:28]to talk about it, being able to connect with another person
[13:33]who's been on this journey, who understands what the ambiguous
[13:35]loss is to just understand just how tragic dementia is
[13:40]and what it takes from you and your person and your life.
[13:45]So being able to talk about the grief,
[13:48]I think is really important for people that it's so easy
[13:52]to want to just keep it inside.
[13:54]But when I tell my children, it's better out than in.
[13:56]It's really important to just to be open and to be,
[14:00]that's how you start to kind of process.
[14:03]You know, you start to kind of process the grief,
[14:05]which is forever changing.
[14:07]Yeah. I'm so sorry.
[14:08]Oh, thank you.
[14:10]What do you miss the most about the old version of this?
[14:15]You know, use my best friend.
[14:17]You know, there's so much.
[14:20]I just, you know, we were home bodies.
[14:24]We loved to lay in bed, watch movies, go for walks.
[14:28]We were, we just loved each other's company.
[14:31]You know, and I just missed that.
[14:33]Like I miss him and the companionship and our conversations
[14:38]and how funny, you know, just so funny and quick-witted,
[14:42]he was, there's a lot, there's a lot to miss.
[14:46]There's a lot to miss.
[14:47]But, you know, we're in a new phase of our lives.
[14:52]And it's not that it's okay,
[14:53]but there is still joy in our life.
[14:55]You know, it's just looks different than it did before.
[14:59]And getting a diagnosis of dementia is terrible.
[15:03]It's like the worst of the worst.
[15:05]But I think it's also important for people to know
[15:08]that there is still laughter and there is still joy.
[15:11]And there are still new beautiful memories to create.
[15:15]And that has really been what we do with Bruce today.
[15:21]You had this one moment where your alarm went off
[15:24]and you couldn't remember the alarm code,
[15:26]and you went downstairs to like turn it off and you're like,
[15:28]why is he not getting up?
[15:29]And then you were like, oh, so this is what it's gonna be like.
[15:32]He's not gonna be, I know it's like sort of a funny example,
[15:35]but also just the little things in life are all changed.
[15:39]Everything, everything that you've been used to,
[15:42]I mean, Bruce was the one that kind of ran our whole house
[15:45]and did the things and organized all the stuff.
[15:47]And then slowly I realized like, no, this is my turn.
[15:52]Like it's my turn to step in and run the ship of our lives,
[15:58]which was very, very different.
[16:00]But you realize that you're a lot more capable
[16:04]than you think.
[16:05]I think it's important to not sell ourselves short.
[16:08]I think that we can handle a lot that comes our way.
[16:13]And I've really seen that, you know,
[16:15]it's something I think that caregivers should be proud of
[16:17]because they take on so much
[16:19]and they have to change their whole angle of their life
[16:23]now to fit this new world that they're in.
[16:27]And I think that it's just not something to gloss over.
[16:30]I think it's really important to realize
[16:32]that we are definitely stronger than we think.
[16:35]Well, you had advice to your kids,
[16:38]but I think it applies to you and really to anybody.
[16:40]It's great advice,
[16:41]but your kids have gotten the cards they've been dealt
[16:45]and they will learn how to play them.
[16:46]They will learn how to play them.
[16:48]It's simple, but it's so good.
[16:49]Yeah.
[16:50]It's like, yes, this is what's in front of us
[16:52]and they will adapt and you will adapt.
[16:53]And we all somehow find our way through this mess.
[16:56]No, we do.
[16:57]And that's one of the things that like it heard over and over again,
[17:00]which is just we still annoy me
[17:01]because no kids are so resilient.
[17:04]And I'm like, oh, but I don't know
[17:05]that you understand this situation that we're in.
[17:07]I don't know if they'll bounce back from this,
[17:10]but you know what, kids are really resilient.
[17:13]And us as adults and humans are actually really resilient.
[17:17]Now, there are things that you think
[17:18]that you're not gonna be able to get through and we do.
[17:21]And we find a way just to continue to put one foot
[17:25]in front of the other.
[17:26]And I think that's incredible.
[17:28]It's incredible.
[17:30]You wrote about the beginning of your relationship
[17:32]and how you were kind of standoffish.
[17:35]Not stand-upish, that sounds bad,
[17:36]but you were like not so into the whole thing.
[17:40]And you kept saying no.
[17:41]And you was like quite persistent.
[17:43]Almost in like two persistence.
[17:46]He's very confident, very confident person.
[17:49]And he was like, I'm gonna marry her.
[17:50]And you're like, I don't even wanna go out on a date
[17:52]with you.
[17:53]Good luck.
[17:54]Good luck with that.
[17:55]It took a while.
[17:56]It took a while to kind of get us to our first date,
[17:59]like a couple of years actually,
[18:01]but I'm happy I went on that date with him.
[18:03]Do you ever look back knowing where life has taken you now
[18:08]and think like you would have done anything differently?
[18:10]No, absolutely not.
[18:12]I wouldn't change a thing.
[18:14]I really wouldn't change a thing.
[18:15]I would change his diagnosis if I could.
[18:18]That would be something.
[18:20]But no, I mean life is, you know,
[18:22]life has played out the way it is playing out.
[18:25]And I'm just trying to figure it out in real time, I guess.
[18:32]So in addition to being an advocate
[18:35]and trying to raise money and do all these things
[18:37]and cure this and raising your kids and all that,
[18:40]now you've added a book, which is a huge deal.
[18:43]And then of itself, it's like, what else?
[18:46]I'm like, what else is coming?
[18:48]So how did you fit in writing a book?
[18:51]Why did you decide to do this?
[18:53]Why now at this stage?
[18:55]Like, what was compelling you to do this?
[18:57]I mean, I realized that when we walked out of our diagnosis
[19:00]appointment, we left with nothing.
[19:01]You know, we didn't leave with a roadmap,
[19:03]we didn't leave with a piece of paper
[19:04]with some kind of like here,
[19:05]or you should call this person that one,
[19:07]that nothing.
[19:08]And, you know, over time,
[19:10]I was able to put these experts and specialists
[19:12]around our family because we,
[19:14]I had some time to be able to do it.
[19:17]I had some resources and access, you know,
[19:21]and there's many caregivers out there
[19:23]that do not have that.
[19:25]And I realized that I was like,
[19:28]there's just so much incredible like wisdom
[19:30]and insightful information that I was gaining
[19:32]from these experts that I had.
[19:34]And, you know, I had to dig so deep for that.
[19:37]It wasn't like it was just there.
[19:39]It was that I really had to go and find it.
[19:43]And I knew I was holding onto something
[19:45]that was really valuable.
[19:47]And I knew I wanted to put it into a book
[19:49]and be able to share it with the next caregiver.
[19:53]Because caregivers are not supported.
[19:54]I mean, they just are not.
[19:56]And I know that because I've been there
[19:58]and I've seen it and I've seen it.
[19:59]I just...
[20:00]what that looks like. So this was just a way for me to be able to pay it forward and I have to say
[20:08]like that book wrote itself. I knew what I wanted to say. I knew are my experts. I knew how valuable
[20:17]the things that they were teaching me and I just I hate to say it wasn't it wasn't a hard thing
[20:23]right. That's so crazy. It really, there was no part in that process of putting that book
[20:30]together was it difficult. Like it just slept. And now that you're doing all this
[20:37]publicity and you're gonna have to deal with stuff for the book, you don't ever feel like
[20:40]no, why did I step into that? I literally say that all the time. I'm like what have I gotten myself into?
[20:45]I literally just wanted to write a book, a roadmap that would help someone else. I didn't realize
[20:50]that there was a whole song and dance that goes along with it. I was like no, the book will just
[20:54]let it come out and like let it speak for itself and you know it'll do what it's going to do. No, I
[20:59]didn't realize that that's not what you do. So anytime I'm about to go do something I'm like what
[21:03]have I gotten myself into? Because public speaking is just so hard for me. It's not my favorite thing.
[21:12]But I just realized that this I just have my bruce would always tell me Emma you gotta get
[21:17]out of your own way. And this is me getting out of my own way because I know that this book will
[21:22]help someone else because it just helped me. I still refer to it. I'm still looking in it. I'll
[21:27]open it up and be like oh yeah, I should need to revisit that. I haven't been doing that. I need
[21:33]to you know, I need these constant reminders as well. Well, you do pack in so much great information
[21:41]and self care care for others. You have little worksheets and it's quite a user friendly guide
[21:47]for people who are probably already just so afraid and don't have the bandwidth for a lot. And
[21:53]you wrote it in such an accessible way that it's just felt like someone was reaching out of hand.
[21:58]I feel like caregivers are like they're so fatigued, right? And I felt like it was important for me
[22:04]to be able just to tell them something so that they don't have to like figure it all out all the
[22:09]time because sometimes that's all I want. I can so much please just tell me what to do. Like I'm
[22:13]sick of making the decisions. So I wanted just to be able to kind of take that decision making
[22:19]away from the caregiver so that it's there so they can just refer to it and be like oh okay,
[22:25]this is what I should do or this is how I should ask or this is how I get support or whatever
[22:31]that might be. I just wanted to make it accessible, tangible, actionable. And in terms of making
[22:38]decisions, I know every so often there are clips of your family together or your blended family
[22:44]or whatever. How do you decide what to post? I know this is sort of quite specific question but
[22:52]somebody's like on social media all the time thinking about this. How do you decide like what's
[22:56]okay to post about Bruce now versus before? What would he want? What do you like? Who decides that?
[23:03]Who's in charge of that? I think it's whoever posts. You know it's very hard to I think we all
[23:07]have our own ideas. I have mine and everyone else has theirs and in what are yours. What are mine?
[23:16]I think I just always want my husband to look great. I think for me what's important right now
[23:25]it's really about this book and it's really about caring for the caregiver and obviously the
[23:34]comes from Bruce. That is how I am here but again I think it's even bigger than him or me. I mean this
[23:43]is like a caregiving journey that is happening to 63 million caregivers in the United States.
[23:50]It's 11 million of which are caregivers to someone with dementia and I just try to take the focus
[23:58]as much as I can away from him just to be able to be like what this book is and what this book
[24:04]isn't. This book is not a memoir. It is not a tell-all. It's a book that hopefully people will see
[24:10]parts of my story and be able to connect to it but also be able to find the support that they
[24:16]need to be able to sustain the journey. It was a very good pivot away from that specific question.
[24:21]You're very good. You're the first one to ask for that. It's a hard question that. It's a hard
[24:26]question answer. It was a good pivot though. That was a good pivot. You're not going to put this
[24:32]on. That was my favorite part. So when you think about your next part of life with the craziness
[24:43]of the book and everything else, give me an example. How are you taking care of you? I know
[24:49]there are things here and you meditate sometimes and do this and go for walks and exercise and all
[24:54]that. But on a day, what are you going to do? Just collapse. You watch TV. What are some of your
[24:59]guilty pleasures when you're fried? Oh, guilty, but you know, watching just some TV, putting on
[25:05]Netflix, getting into bed with like a snack. That's like a guilty pleasure, I think for me.
[25:11]Yeah, it just depends. For me right now, myself care is crazy as this sounds,
[25:19]is advocating, is raising awareness. For me, that is sort of what really gives me hope. It really
[25:26]kind of changes this dark narrative that I also have in my head too. It helps. It just steers me away
[25:33]from that. So I can also have purpose and meaning in my life, which wasn't there. I didn't feel
[25:41]like it was there for a long time when Bruce was diagnosed. So right now, like I'm going into these
[25:47]room now with other caregivers. I'm able to connect with them. And that for me is just like,
[25:51]that is my self care. It's like connection. I lived in isolation for so long. There was so many
[25:57]smoke and mirrors that I was putting up to try and protect Bruce and our family. And I'm like,
[26:02]I'm over it. I'm over it. So you had such a good line about that. You said we are only as sick as
[26:09]our secrets. Yeah, I love that. It's true. I think it's just been so freeing to be able just to be
[26:17]in our truth of what is. And that helps me too. It is so helpful and important for me to also have
[26:28]a community. It's okay for me to be able to share my story, even though it might be people might judge
[26:36]me, criticize or whatnot. But there is also so much love and support out there as well. So that is
[26:43]who I, that is who I'm speaking to. Those are the connections that I'm making. That is how I'm
[26:49]caring for myself now in this journey versus where I was before, which was dark, dark place.
[26:57]And just I don't want to keep you for too long. I'm sure you're so tired. But you talked about
[27:03]taking your girls to Japan and how you flashed back a little bit to when you were on the plane,
[27:08]when you were young. Yeah. And you watched Armageddon and bald watching your future has been
[27:13]little did you do. I know. And then you came back again with them. Just like talking about that
[27:17]full circle moment. Yeah. So what I was, one of my first model and my bigger modeling jobs was a
[27:24]contract that I got to go to Japan for a month. And like those were the times where you would be on
[27:30]a plane. It was an economy. And like remember we all shared like one time a vision like in the aisle.
[27:35]So you'd all put your little things on. And like everyone's watching the same movie like up in
[27:40]the aisle. Anyway, so Armageddon was on. And I remember just like being so into this movie and crying
[27:45]and everyone's crying next to you on the movie watching this whole thing. And I was going to Japan.
[27:51]And then, you know, that was just one of my favorite places. And Bruce and I said, you know, one day
[27:56]we're going to take the kids back. We're going to go. He loved Japan. We were going to, we had this
[28:01]whole idea of where we would go, the things that we would do. And that was a trip that the girls
[28:07]and I did last year. And, you know, it was like it was a beautiful trip. It's not wasn't the trip
[28:15]that it was supposed to be. We were supposed to have Bruce there with us. But I was able to take
[28:20]the girls. They love, you know, they love being in Japan. They're of the age now where they can
[28:25]appreciate the culture and the food. And so it was a reimagined trip, a different type of trip.
[28:32]But it was still important. And I have a photo album that I made. You know, I pulled those pictures
[28:38]off the cloud and like put them into a photo album of, you know, like special places and things
[28:44]that I'm doing with the girls that, you know, was supposed to be with Bruce. But this is the world
[28:50]that we are navigating right now. And is there anything you would say to yourself sitting there
[28:57]watching the big screen on the plane? And the advice you give to her, just have some grace,
[29:03]you know, like just that you're going to be okay. You know, I move through the world in so
[29:09]much fear and anxiety and, you know, just to embrace life, have fun. You know, life is so
[29:19]just goes by and a blink of an eye and things can can you can change so quickly. So I just
[29:25]think that I'm just trying to like enjoy things more and like taking these trips with the girls.
[29:31]It's so easy for us to just say like, oh, we'll do it. We'll do it another time. We'll do it
[29:36]next year. We'll do it. No. I'm like, when we have the opportunity, we're going, we're traveling,
[29:43]whatever it might be. Because that's what Bruce would want. He would want us to just be in the world,
[29:49]experiencing the world and being able to show the girls the world is, you know, it's such a
[29:55]privilege, such a beautiful, beautiful thing that I'm able to do with them.
[30:00]And what would he say to you today seeing you in your element?
[30:03]He'd be so proud. I think he would be so proud. He was always my biggest cheerleader,
[30:09]always trying to just like get me out there and you know I think he'd be really proud of what I'm
[30:16]doing and how I'm using my voice because he also believed in that too, the you know the importance of
[30:23]you know speaking for people that are unseen and to be able to do good and I think he would be
[30:30]proud of that. I'm sure he would. I'm so glad you have so many in your circle who are so proud of you
[30:36]and now the entire world who gets to hear your story so congratulations and thanks for taking the
[30:42]time to help others when it's hard enough to take care of yourself I'm sure so this is such an
[30:47]act of generosity and I hope it will come back to you in space. Thank you so much. I don't know how
[30:52]you just did this whole interview without any notes. How did you do that? I'm just that good.
[30:59]Thank you for coming on. Thank you for listening. To totally bucked with Zibi,
[31:06]formerly momstone have time to read books. If you loved the show, tell a friend,
[31:10]leave a review, follow me on Instagram at Zibi Owens and spread the word. Thanks so much.
[31:17]Go and buy the books.