Clea Shearer, CANCER IS COMPLICATED: And Other Unexpected Lessons I've Learned
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[0:44]Leah Shearer is the author of cancer is complicated and other unexpected lessons I've
[0:49]learned.
[0:50]Leah is the co-founder of the home edit, a mother, a wife, and most recently a breast cancer
[0:55]survivor.
[0:56]Having grown up in Los Angeles, she graduated from Parsons School of Design in New York
[1:00]York City, and currently resides in Nashville.
[1:02]In 2015, Leah and her co-founder, Joanne Teplin, started the home edit, a global home and
[1:08]lifestyle company, with the goal of reinventing traditional home organizing and merging
[1:13]it with design.
[1:14]The home edit has become a household name, with a social following of over 9.8 million
[1:18]people, three New York Times bestselling books, the home edit, the home edit life, and
[1:23]the home edit state organized, a successful line of organizational products sold in over
[1:28]31 countries, and an Emmy nominated netflix show get organized with the home edit.
[1:33]In 2025, the pair made their debut as host of Extreme Makeover Home Edition airing on ABC
[1:39]and streaming on Hulu.
[1:40]In her spare time, she can be found traveling, reading her Kindle, and trying to learn
[1:44]how to cook.
[1:45]FYI, in this episode, we talked about her upcoming surgery and how she was nervous as it
[1:50]was happening the next day.
[1:52]Unfortunately, she did have some complications from the surgery, and that is where we
[1:56]we are right now as I'm recording this.
[1:59]So please follow Kleea on social media, where she gives you the up-to-date accounts of
[2:04]all of her surgeries and health issues, and you will be rooting for her every step of
[2:09]the way.
[2:10]Welcome, Kleea.
[2:11]Thank you so much for coming on totally book to talk about cancer is complicated.
[2:14]Thank you so much.
[2:15]Thank you so much for having me.
[2:17]So excited to be here.
[2:18]Oh my gosh.
[2:19]It didn't realize, but still close enough.
[2:22]So good.
[2:24]Your book was so good.
[2:25]I inhaled it.
[2:26]I haven't read anything as helpful.
[2:29]I have not had cancer, but now I have had to friends who have, and now I just feel like
[2:34]I get it.
[2:35]I can be a much better friend.
[2:37]I support if it happens to me.
[2:39]I know what to expect.
[2:40]I love being able to plan, so that's really helpful.
[2:43]So thank you for sharing your story.
[2:46]Why did you decide to do that?
[2:47]You know, when I first got diagnosed, I was just, like most people would be a ball of
[2:53]fears and tears and just felt really despondent and something a few days post diagnosis
[3:00]kind of just like clicked in my brain about me being, I should be the one in eight women
[3:08]to get breast cancer.
[3:09]If I can check off seven people from that list and be the person to have it, then why
[3:14]not?
[3:15]I mean, I have, you know, all the resources, everything at my disposal.
[3:20]And if I can do this journey, so someone else doesn't have to, then I felt like that was
[3:25]a real honor.
[3:26]And I decided from that moment that I was going to really try and make my cancer purposeful
[3:32]and share and document everything, which I did on social and ended up, you know, turning
[3:38]this into a book.
[3:39]But I just, you know, I felt like I had a real opportunity.
[3:43]And if I'm going to have cancer, you know, I don't have past anything, so I'm going
[3:48]to, I'm going to make sure to make it as impactful as possible and hopefully help people
[3:54]along the way.
[3:55]It's so amazing.
[3:56]And I love in the book, after you got home from the hospital, you were like, the flowers
[4:00]aren't in the right order.
[4:01]I have to rearrange that was 100% my mom, you know, a double mastectomy is a big surgery.
[4:09]And my mother was just like standing over me like a hawk.
[4:12]And I'm just like trying to arrange the florals that have come.
[4:15]She's a clear sit sit down.
[4:18]So it's hard for me to relax.
[4:20]I actually have a very big surgery tomorrow.
[4:23]I saw that on social.
[4:24]I saw you posting, which I'm nervous about, but and I never really get nervous about
[4:28]surgeries at this point.
[4:30]But I'm sure I'll be arranging things again tomorrow too.
[4:33]So well, actually, I'll be in the hospital for 24 hours.
[4:37]But when I'm home, you can count on the fact that I will be moving around and rearranging
[4:41]bits and pieces because I can't sit still, which is a terrible quality for cancer patient.
[4:46]Terrible.
[4:47]Well, you've found your way around it.
[4:49]I feel like you've made the whole thing put to good use.
[4:53]I also feel like the book was this love letter to your mom because the way that she took
[4:58]care of you and the time you got to spend and you say sort of towards the end, like, I
[5:02]hate to say I enjoyed it.
[5:03]But like when she was leaving after the first time and she was like, we had a lot of fun,
[5:07]right?
[5:08]As you guys are watching Iron Chef and bonding and everything and that there are these,
[5:12]and that's why, of course, you say cancer is complicated.
[5:14]But all these moments with her, tell me about your relationship and everything.
[5:17]Well, my mom flew in last night, so she'll be here with me and start tomorrow's surgery.
[5:22]You know, my mom and I have always been very, very close.
[5:27]And I'm only going to say very nice things about her because she can probably hear me from
[5:30]the other room.
[5:31]So she's kidding.
[5:32]But my mom and I have always been very, very close.
[5:34]I mean, I still call her mommy, you know, like she is my, she's my mommy until forever.
[5:41]But when I got diagnosed as close as we've always been, it's something just completely shifted.
[5:49]And it's kind of like in when you have one child and you're like, there's no way I can love
[5:55]another child as much as I love this child because my heart is completely full.
[5:59]And somehow when you have another child, your heart just grows like another heart or something.
[6:04]Like it just, and that's kind of I think the way I feel about my relationship with my mom.
[6:08]I didn't know that we could get closer, but I think there's, there's nothing quite like
[6:16]something like this to put everything into perspective and to make you really, really, really
[6:21]want to just be around the most important people in your life.
[6:24]And my mom just showed up and continues to show up every single time.
[6:29]And, you know, I just, it's crazy, but there's a lot of treasured moments that occurred during my,
[6:37]my battle. So, and that still occurs. She's here now. So, you know, it just, I hold a very special
[6:44]place in my, in my heart and she's the best. You're so lucky. That's amazing. And your husband too
[6:50]was like at every appointment. I mean, he's a saint. Oh, yeah. John is the saint. My mom actually
[6:55]said to him, John, you've always been a prince, but you're a saint now. Like, I mean, he, his love
[7:01]all of Sthood was really on full display. He never misses an appointment, even just like a follow up
[7:08]like nothing appointment. He is always, always there. And he didn't work most of that year, which
[7:15]I realized is, you know, not, not common. And, you know, we had the good fortune to be able to
[7:22]have him take so much time off. But he just, he was there for me for absolutely everything.
[7:30]And, you know, he was my moral support. He was my emotional support. He was my actual caregiver,
[7:35]you know, like, especially after surgeries and everything, you know, it's, he's just, he's the
[7:41]best. And he's, you know, also takes over as being mother and father to our kids. So, you know,
[7:47]it's, he's really amazing. And maybe I should back up and just have you explain really
[7:52]quickly what happened, how you found out about it, just for people who are like, what are they
[7:57]even talking about? So basically that you, you found out in the midst of this very, very successful
[8:04]full throttle ahead career with the home edit and everything else. And like, it was going to be
[8:08]your year. And then all of a sudden, you felt what, well, you ignored the first lumpy that may or may
[8:14]not have been related. And then, which we can talk about. Yeah. Like you said, February 2022 was a
[8:22]really big moment or company. The home edit got acquired by Hello Sunshine Reese Witherspoon's
[8:27]company. I had just turned 40 on top of life. Everything was amazing. And days after the acquisition,
[8:37]and I mean, like, we got acquired February 18th. And I was in the shower February 22nd and felt
[8:44]what I absolutely knew was a lump. You know, like, I think that when I had felt maybe something
[8:52]the summer prior, I think I just, I know I just wrote it off as like, breast or lumpy, you know,
[8:59]like they're not all perfect and smooth. But that day in the shower in February, I was like,
[9:05]oh, there is nothing else that this could be. I mean, what, why wouldn't it be the lump,
[9:12]not just a lump, but like the lump that they tell you to look for. And I mean, I freaked out,
[9:19]I immediately called my OBGYN to try and get scheduled for a mammogram. And I write about this
[9:27]in the book because it really changed the course of things for me. I, I was told that no mammograms
[9:34]were available. No appointments were available. This was February and they said that they were
[9:38]fully booked through April and that the May books just weren't open yet. So I would just have to
[9:44]keep trying back, like not even like call back on, you know, April 30th. It's like, just, no,
[9:50]there, nothing was open. And I continued to press and I said, but I found a lump, like I'm not,
[9:57]I'm not asking for my well woman appointment, you know, which-
[10:00]I understand takes a long time. But when you go in for your annual physical is a really different
[10:06]thing than if you have the flu, they get you in. How is this possible? And the receptionist
[10:12]just apologized and said, it's the way it is. And I said, how does medicine work this way?
[10:19]And it's just no. So I called my primary care doctor who's fantastic and she assembled
[10:28]a whole day of mammogram ultrasound, all the tests that I could get. And if it wasn't for her
[10:36]taking me seriously and this seriously, I believe that I would be in a very different situation.
[10:42]Well, I think your advocacy throughout the whole book is really important. And the advice you
[10:46]gave to everybody else that if you think that something is not right, don't just accept it.
[10:50]Like you have to be your own advocate for your health, like even down to when your arm went numb
[10:55]and you were like, this is one of those times I'm going to have to call again. It happened a lot of
[11:00]times. And that's like, you know, it's like when you deal with the health crisis, you start to realize
[11:06]this isn't like it's not a well woman appointment. It's not, you know, when you call your dentist and
[11:11]they say, well, we can fit you in six months, you're like, okay, well, you know, that's that's fine.
[11:17]This is like your health telling you, your body telling you that you need to prioritize it that
[11:25]you just, you can't kick the can down the road normally. I would have no problem being like,
[11:31]well, I guess I just can't get seen for a few months. Like sounds good to me. I just don't want
[11:35]to go to the doctor. And I just knew, knew immediately that I couldn't afford that. And I just,
[11:44]I had a gut feeling that this was going to be cancer and it felt the lump was large.
[11:50]And it was actually two lungs that were right next to each other. So it felt like a much larger
[11:55]lump, but still it was two centimeters and three centimeters, which is sizable. So yeah,
[12:00]you need to listen to your body. You need to advocate for yourself. You need to speak up when
[12:06]something's wrong or even if something just doesn't feel right. Like I had to do multiple times
[12:11]through my cancer journey. And I don't think that women particularly are, are taught to do that.
[12:19]I think that we were busy. We're, we're working. We're raising families. We're, you know,
[12:24]the last thing that we deal with is ourselves. And I think that it's, it's a lesson that I learned and
[12:32]you know, one, one of the reasons why I wrote this book, I want people to learn from my mistakes
[12:38]and, you know, all the kind of lessons I learned along the way so that, you know, let,
[12:42]let me figure it out so that you guys are better equipped.
[12:46]No, that was great. Even telling people like how loud this thing is, what chair, how long
[12:50]you have to sit here for this. And even warning people like you do about which movie it's not
[12:55]to watch and how it can be such a trigger and why does Hollywood portray chemotherapy and always
[12:59]such dark rooms with like a sepia filter or whatever. I cannot watch a movie at this point. Like
[13:05]it's like I am somehow drawn to a movie or TV show that inevitably like 60% of the way through
[13:13]someone has breast cancer. It's always someone died of cancer. Someone has cancer. Someone's getting
[13:17]chemo. It's just like these shows, I think, follow me. But I, I do, I blame Hollywood because
[13:25]it sucks to, to always feel like every, all of these scenes are so dark and literally sometimes
[13:36]like with lighting and everything. And they're also dark. They're also tragic. And I've just
[13:41]think that there's a lot of nuance with this disease and not that it isn't terribly dark and
[13:48]tragic and at many points. But I think it just scares us into feeling like there's no way we could
[13:55]go through it. And, you know, so I did want to make sure that the book showed the, the humanity
[14:06]of going through something like this. And it's not all terrible. Some days are really,
[14:11]really terrible. But there are also a lot of days that are really poignant and meaningful.
[14:16]You know, I wouldn't say there were that many fun days. But, you know, I tried to have fun. I
[14:20]went to Disneyland once and ended up in the ER. So, you know, again, learn from my mistakes.
[14:25]Don't go to Disneyland in the middle of chemo. Not, not a good idea. Not advised. But yeah,
[14:32]cancer is not just being in a, in a sterile chair and a lineup of chairs with a, with a drip.
[14:41]You know, like that is, it doesn't, some days it might look like that. But that's not what your life
[14:46]is going to look like. And, I mean, one hopes, you know, you never know if there's like an extra,
[14:52]you know, circumstance. But generally speaking, I was like, no, I want, I want people to know what
[14:58]to expect, you know, the good and the bad. And I like how you talked about even in the aftermath
[15:03]of the treatment, which I feel like as a reader, we were sort of crossing off the calendar with you
[15:07]with the doses and all of that. And you finally get to the end. And you were, you ended up feeling
[15:11]depressed. Can you talk a little bit about that? I relate for me, again, all of this is only my
[15:18]tale. So this is not what everyone will experience by any means. But when I reached the end of
[15:25]radiation, when I reached, you know, the end of my active treatment, I felt like I was just like
[15:32]dropped into space. And I had been kind of like army crawling my way through all of these
[15:39]infusions and sessions. And, you know, I had a date in my mind November 22nd was going to be my
[15:45]final day of radiation. And I was going to be done and free. And I pictured myself like,
[15:50]you know, like in the sound of music, like frolicking on the grass, like swinging my arms, just
[15:54]thinking, this is the best moment of my life. And I really tried to feel that way. But I couldn't
[16:02]access the happiness or the joy in, in any of it. And what I realized is I was really, I really had
[16:12]about depression. And I have a few reasons why I think that that I ended up feeling that way.
[16:20]But I would relate it to postpartum depression in the sense that, you know, you're,
[16:25]you're working, you're plugging away for nine months, like just counting on that day. And then
[16:30]your world is going to come into light and everything's going to be sunshine and happiness. And
[16:36]and I experienced postpartum with my first born with Stella. And, you know, you know that this should
[16:44]be the happiest moment in your life. Like you know that, so you're like, what, what is wrong with
[16:49]me? Why am I broken that I'm not so happy to have my child and the pregnancies over. Now I have my
[16:57]child, you know, the my act of treatment was over. And I had no evidence of disease for cancer.
[17:04]This is should be the best moment I crush it. And I think I felt the very, very long journey ahead.
[17:12]Like I wasn't actually done because I was done with the act of treatment. But then you move into,
[17:17]if you're depending on what you're, if you're hormone positive or if you're too positive or
[17:22]too negative, like there, there are things that you, you know, adjunct treatment, they call it.
[17:27]So I knew that there was a really, really long road ahead. And I felt all of a sudden untethered. I
[17:33]didn't have like a plan. I didn't have things that I could check off. It was just this like very,
[17:39]very, very long road ahead of me. And I had dealt with, you know, nearly a year of intense
[17:47]treatment. And with like very, like I'm so goal oriented, you know, that I could feel like if I got
[17:54]to the end, then I would feel it in my bones. And I just, I didn't. And I think that because I didn't,
[18:02]I really just struggled with, I couldn't talk to anyone about it. You know, I felt selfish,
[18:09]for like, you know, all these people, my life have been with me, you know, through and through,
[18:15]through all this. And who am I to, it, I felt a lot of shame around feeling depressed. And so I
[18:23]didn't really share it with people, which I think is, you know, only makes you more depressed.
[18:27]It only made a matter worse. So it was, it was a hard road. It took me a couple of months to really
[18:36]get out of that. And I, again, I realized I needed to talk to my doctor. And we changed
[18:44]certain medications, kind of moved things around. I was told I absolutely without fail
[18:50]need to get outside and move for 30 minutes every day. Just certain things to try and get the fog
[18:57]to lift. And it did. But it did take a while. And I, I really wanted to be honest with that,
[19:02]because I, I, I would bet it happens to a lot of cancer patients. Well, it's hard to not feel like
[19:10]there's something you can do. And even though you have your regimen now, obviously, and obviously
[19:14]your big surgery coming up, how are you preparing for that? Like, emotionally, whatever, like,
[19:19]how do you go into something like that? This will be my 11th surgery. So I unfortunately am a pro.
[19:28]This one though is going to be very big. So back my first surgery, my first surgery ever in my
[19:35]life was my double mastectomy. I'd never had anything before. And not a great one to start with,
[19:40]but I hadn't had anything before. And then right after my double mastectomy, like within,
[19:46]within that week, so seven days later, I developed necrosis and had to have emergency surgery
[19:53]for that. And then I've had a subsequent, I've had so many surgeries, both in reconstruction. I
[19:59]had to get my ovary.
[20:00]out because I'm hormone positive, just a whole list of things. Basically, in April, I started
[20:07]having a complication on my right breast. It was never really keen to the implant. Like that my
[20:14]skin was tissue thin. I lost so much skin with necrosis, but also my right breast is my radiated
[20:21]side and radiated skin is just a nightmare to deal with in terms of reconstruction or really
[20:27]with anything, but with reconstruction. So after so many attempts of trying to save my right
[20:32]implant, save my right breast, my doctor made the decision and had to be removed again.
[20:37]So I went from kind of a double mastectomy to reconstruction to kind of back to having like a single
[20:44]mastectomy. And so I had to wait a few months for my skin to really settle down, calm down,
[20:51]hopefully heal a little bit. And then tomorrow is my big, it's another type of reconstruction.
[20:59]It's called latissimus dorsi flap surgery. And some people call it the lap flap,
[21:04]but it's it's basically where they take muscle tissue skin from your back and rebuild your chest
[21:11]with it. So it's going to be a big one. I'm really nervous about it. I'm normally not nervous
[21:18]at all, but the recovery for this one sounds really daunting. So I'm anxious. I don't know if
[21:24]I'll be arranging flowers. I'm not not sure. It seems painful, very painful. And you don't have
[21:30]to be arranging flowers. And however, I mean, you have like to really know. I mean, I feel like that
[21:37]well, first of all, good luck tomorrow. And you know, but I feel like it comes through that your instinct
[21:44]is to accomplish and to arrange and call down. And you, you know, you talk famously about
[21:50]getting rid of your wedding photos, which you digitize. And you just like are ready to clear
[21:55]and pursue and get through the emails and do the work and go to the photo sheets and all of that.
[21:59]And life doesn't always obey what we want. And I think that's one of the most useful things.
[22:06]You're like, and again, cancer is complicated because look at what happened and look at how I
[22:10]I had to pivot. So I think, you know, pivoting has becomes a central takeaway from the book,
[22:15]how you deal with that. Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, I open the book saying not to quote myself
[22:21]because I'm sure I'll get it a little wrong. But I open the book saying if, you know, if you like
[22:26]something, if you're a planner, if you're a control free, cancer is not the disease for you.
[22:31]And it is true because, I mean, you just, you can't, you can't plan anything. Everything is a
[22:38]pivot. Everything is learning how to just take the information, take the hit, whatever it is,
[22:45]and pivot to a new plan, a new outlook, and, you know, a new something. And it just did
[22:53]happens all the time. Like you just, it is, it's almost laughable. It can't be laughable because
[22:59]it's cancer, but it's almost laughable just how your life is just out of your hands at that point.
[23:05]It's just, it's just out of your hands. And, and I, I learned very early just, I can't be
[23:12]attached to an outcome or a solution because it will change, not likely change. It just, it will
[23:19]change. And you talk about your Judaism in the book. How is that affected your journey?
[23:26]Well, I am not a very religious person. I am a person who believes in higher power. And, you know,
[23:37]I have a lot of faith in the outcome of life working out the way it should. I really, you know, a
[23:45]lot of people turn to religion, especially in moments like this. And I, I didn't really find myself
[23:55]going in that direction. I, I think I still was trying to be really logical about everything and
[24:01]try to control as much as I could control. I always say control the controls and so I didn't
[24:09]become someone who was like praying to get better. I felt like this was happening for a reason. And
[24:16]this was a new purpose that I, that I had. And I felt like I was really going to wear that like a
[24:24]a badge of honor. I wasn't trying to pray it away, I guess. It was like, I felt like this was
[24:29]for me to go through. And so yeah, I mean, yes, I, I am proudly Jewish, a Jewish person who is
[24:37]obsessed with Christmas, but yes, a proudly, proudly Jewish person. But yeah, I did not, you know,
[24:43]I've been asked the question like where, where does your like faith or religion come into play
[24:48]with this? And I mean, that's the honest answer. I'm, I'm not overly religious. But I, I do
[24:56]just, you know, like if I take my science hat off and like all of my logic and my brain,
[25:02]I do certainly believe, you know, that there's a hand moving us all. So, but I felt like I was
[25:08]actually moved to be in this place and to have this purpose. Well, it changes the narrative when
[25:15]you feel like there was, there's a reason behind everything, right? And good will come of it
[25:20]no matter how bad it was or is or whatever. And then just quickly in the book, you talk
[25:26]excitedly about meeting Reese Withershoon for the first time and your company getting acquired,
[25:30]the book is published by Maria Shriver. You're like BFFs with Christina Applegate. How have you
[25:36]gotten into this world of celebrity and success and TV and all that? Well, I grew up in Los Angeles
[25:45]born and raised very proudly. And so it sounds a little silly. But when you,
[25:53]when you grow up in LA, like you're, you're just around a lot of well-known people, I guess,
[25:59]and maybe not in, in every circumstance. But, you know, between how I grew up my friends and
[26:06]schools and then you have kids and they're all in schools with like Christina's daughter
[26:12]and my daughter went to preschool together and they were best friends. And so Christina and I
[26:17]became really close. And it just, I don't know, it's just the way Los Angeles works, you know,
[26:23]you can't throw a rock without hitting someone relatively famous. So that's just the way it goes.
[26:28]And so that's kind of how like when Joanna and I first started the home at it, we really focused on
[26:34]celebrity projects as one of our differentiators, particularly for social, like something that,
[26:41]you know, really had legs and we got a lot of, you know, press out of that and stuff like that.
[26:46]So I have a lot of people in my corner that I could turn to. And then some people were, you know,
[26:53]they, they came along in my life because of cancer, either mine or theirs. When
[27:00]Jenna Fisher got diagnosed, we weren't friends until we were connected. And then we become
[27:06]really, really close. I had obviously I wrapped up my, my active treatment while she was going
[27:12]through it. So I gave, you know, just a lot of the same kinds of, you know, things I put in the book.
[27:18]And I, you know, told her I was actually writing the book at the same time. So I would send her
[27:22]chapters. And, you know, so we become really good friends. Olivia Munn was a friend
[27:29]prior to me having cancer mainly through my husband. He's a celebrity photographer. So,
[27:34]he noticed a lot of these people. And Olivia checked it on me frequently when I was going through
[27:40]it, which I was just like, wow, that's so kind. We, we are not very close. And then by the time I
[27:47]had kind of wrapped up, she got the diagnosis for herself. And I think I was like one of her first
[27:55]phone calls. And she wanted to keep it private, obviously, for a long time as to Jenna. And,
[27:59]you know, people tell people when they want to and maybe not at all if they don't. But
[28:05]Olivia is another person who I became super close with just because of our shared experience. And
[28:11]yeah, I mean, I know it's, I know it seems crazy because all these people are so well known.
[28:17]And, but I, I don't know, they're just like normal people to me. They're just my friends.
[28:22]I love that.
[28:24]So if you could leave parting advice for people who want to tell their story, right? You told your
[28:30]in a very, like, on top of living it, you wrote it in a very fast-paced, gripping, helpful way.
[28:39]What is your advice to people who want to try to do the same with their getting over whatever
[28:44]they are getting over? Do you mean if they want to write a book or if they just want to share either?
[28:48]Okay. I mean, I would say the most important thing is just brutal honesty. I think that that,
[28:56]you know, you have to be really real with yourself and real with everyone else in terms of what
[29:01]you're going through. I don't think it benefits you or anyone else to not have that layer of honesty
[29:08]because then it's like, what, if you're just sharing your diagnosis, then that's perfectly fine. But if
[29:13]you're, if you're trying to, you know, really kind of share your experience, then that's a different
[29:19]thing. And I think that brutal honesty is the only way to go. And I think that if you're being really
[29:25]honest with yourself and want to share your experience, I think that you'll find when you date deep
[29:32]that your honesty will, will develop things into different light, you know, like some,
[29:39]some things are really, really awful. And then some things like how wonderful is it to have a
[29:45]friend visit you and sit with you for the afternoon while you're not feeling so great or watch a
[29:50]TV marathon with, you know, your mom or someone else or whatever it is. I think that I just I anchor
[29:59]everything in that.
[30:00]Brutal honesty, and I think that if you're honest with yourself and honest with everyone else,
[30:03]I mean, what more could you hope for?
[30:06]Um, Clea, thank you so much. I loved it. Congratulations, and good luck to my own.
[30:11]Thank you so much. I appreciate it. Okay, take care.
[30:14]Thank you for listening to Totally Booked with Zibi, formerly momstone have time to read books.
[30:19]If you loved the show, tell a friend, leave a review, follow me on Instagram at Zibi Owens,
[30:25]and spread the word. Thanks so much. Oh, and buy the books.