Molly Jong-Fast, HOW TO LOSE YOUR MOTHER: A Daughter's Memoir
[0:00]Hi, this is Zibi Owens, and you're listening to Totally Book to Zibi.
[0:06]Formerly, moms don't have time to read books.
[0:08]In my daily show, I interview today's latest, best-selling, buzziest, or underrated authors
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[0:24]look at everything that's coming up, and spend my time curating the best books, so you
[0:29]you don't have to.
[0:30]Stay in the know, get insider insights, and connect with guests, like I do, every single
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[0:45]My name is Marjorie Schuster, I'm the coordinator of literary events here at the Temple
[0:49]Manual Striker Cultural Center, and I'm very happy to welcome you today for another episode
[0:55]of Zibi Media Presents in Coordination with the Striker Center, our showcase of compelling
[1:01]female authors.
[1:03]Today's guest, I'm certain you all know, she occupies a very, very unique place in both
[1:08]modern literary and political history as the daughter of Erica John, and as a journalist,
[1:15]editor, and political analyst in her own right.
[1:18]In her memoir, which is absolutely fantastic, how to lose your mother, Molly brings these
[1:23]two identities together, her exploration of her difficult relationship with her elusive
[1:28]mother.
[1:29]And now, please join me in welcoming Molly John Fass and Zibi Owens.
[1:33]Thanks for coming, everybody, I'm so excited to be here with Molly, can we give her a
[1:39]huge round of applause?
[1:46]I'm just so excited to be here with you, and this is my synagogue, so it feels very
[1:51]meaningful.
[1:54]And two of my three, I don't talk about my kids, but I have kids who have had special,
[2:01]have been barmbom, it's good here, and so it's very meaningful to me, so I'm going to
[2:06]do a little chanting or anything.
[2:09]We had such a hard time with the half-touros, because I grew up Unitarian, even though
[2:17]my parents were both Jewish, my husband grew up Jewish humanist.
[2:20]So we were just completely lost, and it was so bad, and our kids don't make fun of us.
[2:27]So Molly and I got to know each other very well, because our kids were in this cute program
[2:33]at the Museum of Natural History together.
[2:35]If you have grandchildren or kids who need a program, it is so sweet.
[2:39]We spent hours on the floor during a very slow time of life, basically, so it is nice
[2:46]to re-me-me-me here, especially to talk about this awesome book.
[2:50]And we also have kids' image, which I think is, there's something interesting about
[2:55]like knowing someone for that whole stretch of time, you know, it's very lovely, and it's
[3:02]funny because I have older kids, too, and the people I know from when he actually, all
[3:07]my kids went to nursery school here, too, I forgot that.
[3:11]And it was like, I don't know, there's just something lovely about knowing these people
[3:15]for as much a long time.
[3:17]Speaking of things that happened a long time ago, I also just want to acknowledge
[3:20]that today is September 11th, how terrible a day it is in our city's history, my very
[3:27]best friend was killed at that day, my college roommate, and her name was Stacy Sanders.
[3:32]So it's always a very emotional day today, so it's fabulous to be sitting on stage
[3:38]and talking about books and getting a community together when so much in life is tearing
[3:44]us apart.
[3:45]Yeah, violence escalates and yesterday's attack and everything is just feeling so overwhelming.
[3:51]So now we can just like talk about books, but I wanted to acknowledge that I think that's
[3:56]really important, too.
[3:58]It's like a very, god, you don't.
[4:01]So from that, let's talk about the reading and the weight and the ink.
[4:05]Let's get to something joyful, like aging.
[4:12]How many people here have already read Molly's book?
[4:15]Amazing.
[4:16]Good crowd.
[4:18]How many have read Molly's mom's books?
[4:21]Oh, that's a lot more.
[4:23]Actually, you know, it's fun.
[4:24]You have to catch up.
[4:25]I mean, come on.
[4:26]It's funny because my, I was interviewed in California at a bookstore that is like sort of
[4:36]way north by a woman who had been in publishing, who had worked in publishing before Jennifer
[4:42]Walsh.
[4:43]And she had said this.
[4:44]Right, godmothers.
[4:45]And she had said this very interesting thing in independent bookstore, like Zippy's books,
[4:50]but not, but in a different town, so it's okay.
[4:53]And she had said this very interesting thing, which is she had said what we don't remember
[4:58]of a fear of flying since old 27 million copies.
[5:03]And if you think about that, like think about Michelle Obama's book, which was like a
[5:08]blockbuster, it's old like four or five million copies.
[5:11]So I mean, I think part of it is like it was a very different time, and people, you
[5:16]know, books were much cheaper.
[5:18]They were different, you know, they were these paper bags that you could buy for, you
[5:22]know, a couple dollars, maybe less.
[5:24]But it just, it is something to think about this idea that it was so, you know, it was
[5:31]such a big book for the time, and it did have an outsized impact, but also books had
[5:37]a different impact back then, I think too.
[5:39]Well, you talk in the book about your mom and celebrity, and you called it like in a
[5:44]adrenaline junkie itch for fame and acknowledgement that came in the aftermath of being so
[5:51]famous.
[5:52]You also talk about how being a famous author is of course different because sometimes
[5:55]you don't get recognized, although your mother did, talk a little bit about her fame
[6:00]and how that played into then her slow journey into dementia.
[6:06]You know, I would say that it was very, you know, I don't know how much that had to
[6:12]do with the dementia piece, but I think it had a lot to do with just, it's just a very,
[6:19]I think she was very committed to her career and her career had a very outsized place
[6:25]in her life.
[6:27]And so it was very hard when that career, you know, she became very, she became sort
[6:35]of, she sort of was overly invested in her career and maybe didn't get the same kind
[6:41]of self esteem from other stuff.
[6:46]So I would say that was tough, you know, but not unusual for people, but I had always
[6:53]sort of been a caretaker and I didn't know when I could come in and like part of the
[6:59]book is about me just trying to figure out when it was okay to say like, we got to do
[7:05]something now.
[7:07]And that part is very tough and I think a lot of people can relate to that.
[7:11]What I tried to do with the book was not right, so I mean certainly there are interesting
[7:16]things about being famous and I think for her was very traumatic, but what I tried to talk
[7:22]about more was like the experience of having parents that you want to care for in a way
[7:27]that is good to them, but also where you can sort of put the oxygen mask on yourself.
[7:33]And like I wanted to be there for my children, but also be there for my mother.
[7:39]And I also had sort of way I wanted it to go with my mom, which was not realistic.
[7:46]And so that was very hard for me.
[7:47]And so I had to make peace with that I was going to be sort of the best daughter I could
[7:52]be in the circumstances, which was not the daughter I wanted to be.
[7:57]And why I think you should read this book and why people so people come up to me and they
[8:02]say like, I'm going through it, but I don't want to read your book because it's too close
[8:06]to what I'm going through.
[8:07]And what I want to say is like, no, this won't make you feel better, like you will not
[8:12]like the whole point of this book is that you just need to do the best you can.
[8:18]And it's okay that it may not look like what because I had always hoped I would move
[8:23]my mother into my apartment and I would be this beautiful daughter.
[8:28]And that was just not that just couldn't happen for any number of reasons.
[8:32]And I felt really just devastated by the fact that I was unable to do that.
[8:37]And so part of why what I wanted this book was to sort of share that experience and to
[8:43]be able to give people permission for it to look just the way it looks.
[8:49]And you talk about your mother and her becoming a body, like you referred to her over and
[8:54]over my mother is now just a body.
[8:56]And then even talk about it in the context of October 7th and how you were watching the
[9:00]video and there was a grandmother and you're like, she was just, she's just like my
[9:04]mother.
[9:05]Yeah.
[9:06]Oh.
[9:07]When I was watching that video of the grandmother on the car, not knowing what she is,
[9:13]I was thinking about my mother.
[9:14]And I just, it's just so for me it's so profoundly painful to see her and not for her
[9:24]not to be in there.
[9:26]I actually, I want to tell a story that happened after the book.
[9:30]So I moved her to a different place and I was, I went with her and I was like, oh, you
[9:35]know, every time I go, I want to die.
[9:38]And I come and I'm like, oh, this is so sad and you know, I just feel horrible.
[9:42]And then it came out and I saw this woman in a wheelchair just sitting by herself and
[9:48]I thought, and the AIDS left her and this poor woman and I want closer and I see, she's
[9:54]smoking a cigarette looking thrilled.
[9:58]And I realized like.
[10:00]You know, my perception is maybe not always accurate.
[10:04]You know, like this woman, I should be having as good a time
[10:07]as this woman.
[10:08]So I just, you know, I don't, this is like to say that, you know,
[10:15]I have one vision of how things are, but they may not actually be accurate.
[10:21]When you talk about your relationship with her too, you said at one point that your mother
[10:26]treated you the way that a Jewish mother treats her son.
[10:29]Yes, she did, that is true.
[10:31]And that is one of the many great things about her as a mother.
[10:35]So it's funny because I have Jewish sons and I have a Jewish daughter.
[10:38]And I, I don't have that so much because I think it's like a different generation,
[10:43]but I talk about this a lot because I think it's really important.
[10:46]My mom was born in 1942.
[10:49]So like if you think about the sea change that women born in 1942
[10:55]to women born in 1978, like me, like when my mom was born, when my mom was born,
[11:01]women couldn't have checking accounts.
[11:04]Couldn't have, your husband had to sign off on your credit card.
[11:08]You couldn't, I mean, couldn't get a mortgage.
[11:10]Like just so profound.
[11:13]And my mom did really believe that I, like she had this is funny because I see,
[11:20]I saw that always with my husband and his mother.
[11:23]Like his mother really did believe, she was a little older than my mother.
[11:26]And she always did believe that he was like the second coming of Christ.
[11:30]And I'd be like, he's great, don't get me wrong.
[11:34]But you know, she'd be like, you know, and he could like literally do anything.
[11:37]And his sister would always get in trouble for everything.
[11:40]And I'd be like, you know, I feel like this is not totally fair.
[11:43]But anyways, so I do think my mom was absolutely like that.
[11:47]She was just like, you know, I think also part of that is the function of being an only child.
[11:53]And as an only child, I did definitely feel a lot more pressure.
[11:58]Well, you also write about the guilt.
[12:01]And I know you just touched on it.
[12:02]But what do, what should people do when they are feeling torn?
[12:07]How do we take care of aging parents?
[12:10]How do we make sure that they're getting the treatment they deserve?
[12:14]And yet we're doing all that we can.
[12:16]Like, how do we, what's your advice?
[12:18]How do you navigate that?
[12:20]So this is like, these are like the unanswerable questions.
[12:24]Like there's a story about how Obama used to say when a problem got to his desk,
[12:31]there was no answer.
[12:33]Because it was so complicated.
[12:35]You just couldn't, like once it got to his desk, it was, and this is like that question, right?
[12:41]Like there's just no good answer for it.
[12:44]But what I would say is, I made the decision that I had to put the oxygen mask
[12:50]myself.
[12:51]Some people don't do that.
[12:52]In fact, I would, so I do, whenever I did reading through this book,
[12:57]people would get into like sort of the Q&A and you'll see it today.
[13:01]It gets into like a little bit of group therapy, which I love as the sober person I love.
[13:07]So we got into a whole conversation about, you know, what do you do?
[13:12]Do you move your parents in with you?
[13:14]Do not, how do you deal with this?
[13:17]Since woman came up to me afterwards at the book signing, it was like,
[13:20]I moved my mother in with us.
[13:22]She lived another 14 years.
[13:26]My husband and I got divorced.
[13:30]And I was like, okay, so, you know, there's the road not taken there too.
[13:36]Well, I do just want to acknowledge how much you had on your plate at that time too.
[13:40]Your husband had pancreatic cancer at the same time.
[13:44]You had your kids, three kids.
[13:46]I mean, the pressure on caregivers is absolutely enormous and you were in it.
[13:51]Yeah, my husband, so I, I write about my husband.
[13:55]My husband was like, never wanted to be written about.
[13:58]He was like, he was like so horrified.
[14:02]I'm thinking myself, you married into this family and you somehow thought you were going to get
[14:07]out without being written about like what?
[14:11]So when I think Plar can tell this Plar is my wonderful agent who I love so much and who
[14:19]is responsible for any success I've had in my growth.
[14:22]And she, I think that it was like January and I had decided I wanted to write another book,
[14:30]a different kind of book and I was talking to publishers about this book.
[14:34]And my husband one night was like, I don't feel well, I'm going to the emergency room.
[14:41]And I am proud to say that we are very bad hypochondriacs in our family.
[14:48]Like I don't know if anyone can relate to this, but very bad hypochondriacs.
[14:53]And our kids are also terrible hypochondriacs.
[14:56]So we have spent a lot of time in the emergency room like a lot.
[15:01]So my husband says, I'm having pain, I'm going to the hospital.
[15:06]And I said, because this has not been the first second or third time, I said, good luck.
[15:13]Call me if anything.
[15:14]You know, it's like three o'clock in the morning.
[15:15]I was like, call me, you know, and I was like, really don't call me, but whatever.
[15:20]So he goes to the hospital and they find a mask on his pancreas.
[15:25]And he calls me at three o'clock in the morning and he's like, they found.
[15:29]And I remember thinking like, well, this is not going to be good.
[15:35]And so one of a mutual friend of both of ours had just had this very horrible experience
[15:42]where her mother had died of pancreatic cancer.
[15:44]And so I called her up and she is very smart and very organized.
[15:48]And she had a whole power point presentation about what to do next, which was amazing.
[15:58]And so she sent me to this doctor.
[16:01]I went to this doctor and went to song patterning and it was amazing.
[16:05]And she said to us, you know, she was just like, we hope it's this kind of cancer because
[16:15]it's a very treatable, you know, cancer is like a game of inches.
[16:20]So if it's a cancer that grows more slowly, you can live much longer.
[16:26]If it grows much faster, you can, you know, you, so we just went down this rabbit hole of
[16:33]fine, you know, he had surgery.
[16:36]It was this very treatable cancer.
[16:39]He had some metastasis.
[16:42]We got, you know, we just, we just did it in this very kind of bite-sized way.
[16:48]But well, that was happening.
[16:50]My stepfather was in the hospital and so he kept having these falls.
[16:54]And so I would go from one house, but all the other hospital.
[16:57]And they were very close to each other's walk from one day.
[17:00]And then I would go home and go to sleep at seven o'clock at night and just be like,
[17:06]I'm so happy.
[17:07]I can go to sleep.
[17:08]And I have to say like the one thing I've really been impressed with myself is like,
[17:12]I have really, there's something great about not having to do anything and being able to go to sleep.
[17:18]And so I still, that's like my, like I have about three or four really good coping
[17:23]mechanisms and going to sleep at seven is my best.
[17:27]Well, I'll try to emulate that.
[17:29]Everybody go to bed at seven tonight or report back tomorrow.
[17:32]And you'll wake up and you'll, you can't believe how good you'll feel.
[17:36]Amazing.
[17:37]Well, despite all of the heaviness and all of the things you were coping with,
[17:41]and the book you still have time to write in such a funny way about aging.
[17:46]And as you said, the joy, the joy is of aging.
[17:49]Can I read this little passage about it?
[17:51]You said, I started to notice the bags under my eyes around the time Matt got diagnosed.
[17:56]That's the thing about getting older.
[17:57]You get little peaks into it.
[17:59]It happens slowly then quickly.
[18:01]Your body unravels like a loose knit sweater.
[18:04]One day there's a mouth hole and the next day you're wondering how much a neck lift would cost
[18:08]and where you would hide out for a few weeks while you recover.
[18:11]Oh, that's so good.
[18:12]Yeah, it's true.
[18:15]A neck lift.
[18:16]Yes, and also I just want to say about that.
[18:20]I was so smug about not having bags under my eyes.
[18:24]I don't know why I was like, I don't have bags under my, and then one day.
[18:27]So there's a lesson there.
[18:29]But yeah, I think one of the things about this book is like I write a lot about the sort of slow
[18:35]moving midlife crisis that I currently find myself in.
[18:42]And I felt like it's really, it's actually really interesting to write about aging
[18:47]because I always thought I would never be a person who particularly got I always felt like
[18:53]I was never someone who was so interested in how I looked.
[18:56]But for whatever reason, the whole trajectory of like aging really bothers me.
[19:02]And I also don't understand what you can't like skip one year.
[19:05]Like you have to just keep getting older and older.
[19:08]Like I feel like you should get like one or two free years where you don't get older.
[19:14]It's my hottest day.
[19:16]Wait till about your midlife crisis.
[19:18]What does that mean when it's like for you?
[19:20]So, so it is like it's like this thing where it's like, oh, I'm getting older.
[19:28]Oh, I'm heading towards death.
[19:30]Oh, where will I be in 20 years?
[19:33]Where will I be in 40 years?
[19:34]What will happen to me?
[19:36]And then, you know, what was interesting about this book when I was writing, it was like,
[19:40]so here's my husband being like, will I be alive when our kids graduate college?
[19:45]Right?
[19:45]Like what will that look like?
[19:47]And then I have my mom who's like not in there, but who's super healthy.
[19:53]You know, and there's this question of like how, what it, you know,
[19:57]sort of how do you measure your life.
[20:00]And I don't know, it just, it just was, it was a very fraught moment and I don't love getting older.
[20:07]I have to say, really, like there's, and, but my dad always says, well, it's better than the alternative.
[20:15]Yeah, and I think that's, I think ultimately that's where we all get to. Lovely.
[20:20]So your body, you said you've never been that interested in sort of having a look and yet we do
[20:25]write, you do write about eating and your body over time as anybody our age with, yes,
[20:33]Jewish parents probably will. You said, I was fat because I ate. I ate because I didn't have
[20:46]anything else to do. This is when you're a kid. Besides therapy and tutoring, food was the only place
[20:51]I was happy. I loved frosting and birthday cake. I still love birthday cake. Even now, I keep
[20:56]thinking that there's got to be a piece of birthday cake that will scratch that happy childhood itch.
[21:01]Fondent is still my thing. I ate confetti cake last night and my other friend was like, you know
[21:07]it's not that good. And I was like, shut up. So yes, it's funny because last night we were talking about
[21:16]what it was like before cell phones. And I was talking about like how my mom would take me to these,
[21:24]this is, again, like boredom is not child abuse. It's just like what happened in the 70s and 80s. But like
[21:33]my mom would rent these houses and like we just and I'd just go and there'd be nothing to do
[21:40]because why would there be? And Italy had this like very, this dubbing, everything was ducked. So
[21:47]you turn on the television and you'd be like, all right, well it's mash. I'll watch and it would be
[21:52]all in Italian. And you'd be like, oh, like no subtitles just straight dubbed mash. And so there was
[21:58]like nothing to do. So I would just like stare at the wall. And my friends and I were talking like
[22:04]they were like phones are so bad. And I was like, we literally had nothing to do. Like there would be
[22:09]hours of just staring at the wall. So I think phones are good. Like maybe not for little kids,
[22:15]but like can read a book. There's stuff to do. You know, it can we go back to cake first. Okay,
[22:21]I love cake. That's where it wears some of your favorite cakes in New York. So let me just say,
[22:26]this is like something I've now you've really gotten me going on something exciting. I do love
[22:32]the monkey bar has a really good like coconut cake or it's like a it's like a carrot cake that has
[22:38]coconut in it. I like the polar bar has a very good coconut cake. I am very into cake. That is
[22:45]it. How do you feel like Greenberg's? Greenberg's has a good cake. And that birthday cake was
[22:50]a little chocolate. And then I eat a ton of ice cream. And I am on a stat. You'll be surprised to
[22:57]hear that I have very high cholesterol. But not so much since I've been taking the stat.
[23:05]So how does podcasting fit into your midlife crisis? You wrote a book, you have a podcast,
[23:11]you have a huge platform, you've developed. Talk a little bit about that. I mean, everything,
[23:18]I mean, I don't know. I think work is extremely, has been extremely, you know, my whole thing
[23:28]was work, my whole thing with everything. And this is maybe because I got sober when I was 19 is that
[23:33]I just tried to chop, chop wood and carry water and not get focused on outcomes. So you know,
[23:42]I try to do the best stuff I can do. And then I, you know, I try to write the smartest things I can
[23:50]write. You know, I don't get so involved in what happens next, which I think is, you know,
[23:56]there's sort of a very meditative sort of spiritual way to work in the world and not,
[24:03]you know, it's sort of a non-attachment kind of thing. So I do, I try to do that with my work
[24:08]and feel really grateful that I get to write. It's, I actually, it's funny because I was like
[24:15]for about three months, I was just obsessively worried about how AI was going to replace me.
[24:21]And I had this really dumb conversation with this, with Mark Cuban. And he was like,
[24:28]well, you'll just have an AI version of you. And I was like, that is terrible. I was like,
[24:33]I don't want an AI version of me. I was like, I want a me version of me. And he was like,
[24:38]and then the AI version of you can write for you. And I was like, this is the worst thing I've
[24:42]ever heard. And now it seems like this new AI, this newest chat doesn't really work that well.
[24:49]So now I feel like I'm not going to be replaced by AI. So I'm feeling pretty good.
[24:54]All things can send right. I have to say I got pitched an idea. There's a website where you just
[25:00]put in like the main characters names a few plot points. And like you press click and there's your
[25:05]book. It's terrible. But also can then someone else can read it too. You know what I mean? Like
[25:12]have a robot read it if a robot wrote it. You know, it's infuriating. I mean, the good news is that
[25:20]it's still bad. And now it's now. Hopefully it won't get better. Hopefully it won't stay.
[25:26]Okay. So from AI to actual I, what are you doing in terms of writing going forward? Are you writing
[25:32]another book? I hope. Polar, what am I doing? I'm taking audience. I don't know. You know,
[25:40]I don't have like a lot. I don't know. I have to sort of figure out what I need to,
[25:46]what I want to do next. And it's fair, you know, in some ways it's like quite wonderful because
[25:52]I wrote this book. People were really connected to it. The editor who edited it was some
[25:58]amazing. The publishing experience was wonderful. And I've met a lot of people who I feel like have
[26:06]have related to it. And so it's been kind of the dream publishing experience. So
[26:13]in some ways, it's like hard because it's not part of a series. It's not. But in some ways,
[26:20]it's been sort of wonderful in itself. And so I don't know is the answer. I feel like that's
[26:28]very unsatisfying, but okay. I mean, who really knows what's coming next? We all make the best
[26:33]guesses. We make plans and God laughs, right? Isn't that the whole thing? Speaking of God,
[26:38]how do you feel about being Jewish these days? Because in the book you talk about growing up,
[26:43]you were not those kinds of Jews. How do you feel about it now? So going up, we are not religious.
[26:49]And my grandparents were very anti-religious. So my grandmother and father, my father grew up on
[26:58]the Upper East Side and my mother grew up on the Upper West Side. And the Upper West Side
[27:04]back then, everyone in that group ended up going on to do it, to do great things. A lot of the
[27:10]people and of those kids of that vintage. And my grandparents, my great grandparents were born
[27:19]in Ukraine. So my mother's parents actually maybe they were born in the UK. But they were
[27:26]Ukrainians or whatever. And the point is, they all were very anti-religious. They didn't,
[27:34]you know, they were Jews, but they didn't really believe in religion. In fact, my grandmother once
[27:39]said, I was dating someone who was in Jewish and I said, you know, I marry him. And she said,
[27:44]as long as he doesn't believe in God, I don't care. Which I felt like was such a good encapsulation
[27:52]that ethos of that time. And you know, there were a lot of reasons not to believe in God back then.
[27:59]And they had been through a lot. And coming from Ukraine in the 1800s, they had had their own
[28:08]experiences with anti-Semitism. So I understand their hesitation towards religion. I really like
[28:19]my synagogue. I'm not just saying that because I'm here. I promise. And maybe some of the rabbis
[28:24]are here. But maybe not. I really love my synagogue. And I feel very connected to Judaism. I probably
[28:30]feel more connected to Judaism than how I was brought up. And I really did with my kids. I said,
[28:38]I don't want to pressure you. I think you should have Judaism so you can reject it if you want to.
[28:44]So you can have something to reject in an easy low stakes way. And then you come back if you
[28:49]want or if you don't find. And they all sort of decided they wanted what we have here in Judaism,
[28:56]which is lovely. So I don't think that my, I mean, this is controversial. But my husband and I
[29:04]turns out were on 23 of me when we discovered were distant cousins. So I would like my kids
[29:11]to maybe get out of the gene pool a little bit. But I like the religion a lot. So, but I don't,
[29:18]I think might be time for like paint a picture for us of what the day looked like when you clicked and
[29:23]found out your husband was your cousin. He said it to me. Like he was like, do you have a, he said,
[29:28]like it's the best part of the story just to get into. So my father was always like, you know,
[29:35]your husband's, my husband's mother. He was like, she's a fancy German Jew. And I feel like, who are you?
[29:44]Like that you care. It's like such a, and they're related. So haha. But yeah, so he, he founded on 23 of me and he
[29:56]is like, do you have something to tell me? And I was like,
[30:00]So it's not the best and you know, we do carry a lot of Jewish genetic diseases, which we discovered, and you know, so I think perhaps it might be better or not, but just to broaden out the gene pool a little bit.
[30:17]We'll take questions in just one minute, but as a last question, what advice would you have for people here who love to write?
[30:26]You have maintained a writing career since you were, what, 19, how would you in your first book came out?
[30:32]19, but I, or 21, it sold in 19, but you know, you and I both have had very similar trajectories in certain ways, which is we did stuff, and then we had lots of kids.
[30:45]I had one less than you did.
[30:47]By the way, as an only child, like any number of kids seems like a lot of kids.
[30:52]And then I sort of took some time, right, and then I came back to it.
[30:57]So I would say that the thing that I've told my kids, and I think is really good advice, and I think you've done this too, is that I sort of pushed on the doors, and the doors that were meant to open open.
[31:12]I did not like run up and bang my head on the door.
[31:17]I just went to another door.
[31:19]And I feel like, you know, you have a publishing house, you have a bookstore.
[31:24]Like you've sort of figured out the right uses of, you know what I mean?
[31:29]And that's sort of how I feel about my careers.
[31:32]I've sort of, you know, maybe I'm supposed to write about this, maybe I'm supposed to write about that.
[31:37]Maybe I'm, you know, and I've been very open just to what it looks like.
[31:43]And sometimes it hasn't looked like the way I thought it was going to look like.
[31:47]But in a lot of ways it may have looked better.
[31:50]And so that is, I think, I think that's like good advice just more generally for other stuff too.
[31:58]Well, at the conclusion of your book, you say, I guess we're adults now and your husband who's like, I'm 59 years old.
[32:05]I think it's about time I'm an adult, like I hope so.
[32:08]So I guess this introduction to adulthood, however late it comes.
[32:12]Yeah.
[32:13]So it's lots of doors to open and always more experiences to be had.
[32:18]So there's that.
[32:19]And you know, I feel like Zippy were both the same age.
[32:23]And we both did the same thing of just sort of looking at what was around us and what we loved and trying to sort of incorporate that in our lives.
[32:34]And so I feel very grateful that I get to be here with her and that she has done so much to elevate women writers, which is a huge testament to your generosity.
[32:45]And I'm really like moved by that.
[32:48]And also just I think it's really wonderful.
[32:51]So I'm really grateful that I get to be here and I get to be with you.
[32:54]So thank you.
[32:55]So Molly will be on stage signing books after this.
[33:05]For those of you who signed up for lunch, it's on the fourth floor.
[33:09]And if you want to hear this conversation again later, it will be on my podcast.
[33:14]Totally book to which if you haven't listened to, go subscribe now.
[33:18]Thank you.
[33:19]Thank you for listening to totally booked with Zippy, formerly momstone have time to read books.
[33:28]If you loved the show, tell a friend, leave a review, follow me on Instagram at Zippy Owens, and spread the word.
[33:36]Thanks so much.
[33:37]Go and buy the books.