Clint Bentley, Joel Edgerton, & Teddy Schwarzman, TRAIN DREAMS

[1:49]Zibby Owens: This is Zibby Owens and you're listening to Totally Booked with Zibby. Formerly, moms don't have time to read books. In my daily show, I interview today's latest best selling, buzziest, or underrated authors and story creators whose work I think is worth your time. As a bookstore owner, publisher, author, and obviously podcaster, I get a comprehensive look at everything that's coming out and spend my time curating the best books so you don't have to. Stay in the know, get insider insights, and connect with guests like I do every single day. For more information, go to zibbymedia.com, and follow me on Instagram at Zibby Owens. Today is a really special recording because this is about my brother Teddy's movie Train Dreams. He is a producer at Black Bear. And to celebrate the release of Train Dreams, has gotten so much critical acclaim, we had him and Clint Begley and Joel Edgerton at Zippy's Bookshop. Let me tell you a little bit about Clint, Joel, and my brother Teddy, and then you can listen to this really interesting conversation. I mean, I hope. I hope you find it interesting. I know I did. Clint Bentley is an Academy Award nominee. He's a writer, director, producer whose debut directorial feature jockey premiered in competition at the twenty twenty one Sundance Film Festival where Clifton Collins junior was awarded the special jury prize for best actor for his role. Bentley and his longtime collaborator, Greg Quidar, co wrote and produced the film, which went on to enjoy further global festival success with screenings at TIFF, AFI, and over 30 festivals worldwide, winning the audience award at the AFI Film Festival. Bentley and his producing partner, Quaidar, recently launched their production company, Ethos, to develop their own original individual and joint projects and to champion artists under the innovative and equitable financing model that they pioneered on Jockey and further developed with Sing Sing. Bentley co wrote and produced Sing Sing with Quidar, which earned them an Academy Award nomination for best original screenplay. Sing Sing received a further two Academy Award nominations with one for lead actor Coleman Domingo, as well as numerous Golden Globe, Independent Spirit Award, BAFTA, and Critics Choice Award nominations. Both AFI and the National Board of Review named Sing Sing in their top films of the year lists. In addition to his film work, Bentley received a twenty twenty six Pushcart Prize for his short story Cairn that first appeared in the Iowa Review. His fiction has also appeared in the Baltimore Review. Joel Edgerton is an acclaimed Australian actor, writer, and filmmaker born in Blacktown, New South Wales. A graduate of the Neepian drama school, he began his career in stage and screen before gaining international attention as Owen Lars in star wars episode two and three. Over the years, he has starred in a wide range of films, including the great Gatsby, zero dark 30, warrior, black mass, loving, for which he earned golden globe nomination, and the gift, which also marked his directorial debut. Edgerton's versatility extends to voice work, stage performances, and cowriting Netflix's the king. Most recently, Edgerton starred in Apple TV plus dark matter and Charlie Pollinger's the plague, which premiered at Cannes. He also produced the award winning Sundance documentary Daughters and appeared in The Boys in the Boat directed by George Clooney. He is now starring opposite Felicity Jones in Train Dreams, which you will be hearing about now. This was adapted from Dennis Johnson's novella. He has also wrapped production on Netflix's Australian limited series, Boy Swallows Universe, and continues to take on projects as both actor and producer. Edgerton's filmography is marked by collaborations with top tier directors, including Ridley Scott, Ron Howard, David Lowery, and Jeff Nichols. Notable past roles include 13 lives, the stranger, master gardener, and the Emmy winning Amazon series, the underground railroad. A frequent contributor to Australian cinema and theater, he continues to split his time between Australia and London, maintaining a dynamic presence across film, television, and stage. Teddy Schwarzman is CEO of Black Bear. As Black Bear's CEO, Academy Award nominee Teddy Schwarzman oversees all aspects of the globally renowned independent studio founded in 2011. He has been the driving creative force behind more than 40 feature films, including such acclaimed titles as The Imitation Game, Sing Sing, Nayad, and Mudbound with 17 Academy Award nominations among them, including a best picture nod for The Imitation Game. Schwarzman also recently produced Clint Bentley's Train Dreams starring Joel Edgerton and Felicity Jones for Netflix, David Mackenzie's Relay starring Riaz Ahmed and Lily James, David McCodes Christie starring Sydney Sweeney, Merritt Weaver, and Ben Foster, and the rivals of Umzia King starring Matthew McConaughey, Angelina Looking Glass, and Kurt Russell. Schwarzman also recently served as executive producer on David Ayer's action hit, A Working Man, starring Jason Statham and Osgoods Perkins horror sensation, Long Legs. Schwarzman is a member of the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences, the British Academy of Film and Television Arts, and the Producers Guild of America. He sits on the board of directors of the Academy Museum of Motion Pictures, the Gotham Film Institute, and the Pacific Council on International Policy, as well as the leadership committee of Cedars Sinai's board of governors. He is an honorary member of the board of visitors for the Duke University School of Law, and he is my brother. Enjoy. Today,

[7:24]Teddy Schwarzman: as one of the producers of the movie, the moderator of this q and a, and much more impressively, Zippy's brother. And so I I know my my sister would would much rather and would do a much better job moderating this than I. But the fact that she is out of town, stepping in to to gracefully spend some time with two of my favorite people, you know, Angel Edgerton and Clint Bentley. This is a very wonderful thing for me to be able to to sit here with you guys. We do so much time sort of going around and trying to convince people to see our movie in Train Dreams, that we rarely get the time to actually sit and think about the creative process, why the film exists, how we can will a film into existence, how that process happens. I know a lot of people here are authors or aspiring authors. And so I think we'd love to try and use this process to talk a little bit about Train Dreams by way of case study and give you some insight into what that adaptation process was. And at a certain point, it leaves us and becomes yours. So I thought maybe we would start with Clint. Clint Bentley, to the extent that you don't know, is one of the most humble men that you'll ever meet, but is also one of the most talented and, you know, has has been involved with a a number of exceptional films from cowriting and producing Trans Pecos to cowriting and directing Jockey to cowriting and producing Sing Sing that was nominated for numerous numerous Academy Awards. Was that last year or the year before? It was last year. Last Oh, gosh. Last March. Last And now you're back again with Train Dreams, you co wrote and obviously have directed. I guess, maybe just take us through how you tackle the idea of adapting Train Dreams. How familiar were you with Dennis Johnson and just the task and responsibility of that adaptation? Well and thank you all. Ekerme, thank you all for being here.

[9:34]Joel Edgerton: Please. Quite on top of you. And Teddy's also a bit humble. Teddy, the the only reason that Sing Sing existed and and got to go to the place where it it had multiple Academy Award nominations. And the only reason Train Dreams exists is because Teddy believed in it and and with the apparatus of his company, Black Bear, put their heart behind it and and wouldn't have been able to make the film without creatively or otherwise. Train Dreams, I was I was familiar with Dennis Johnson. This was actually the first one of his that I'd read only because, like, it had come out during, like it was one of the books to read that year. And I was just out of college, I think, when it came out. And I was on the road and it's a nice size for any of you who've grabbed a copy like 116 pages, can slip it in the backpack. And I read it and I was blown away by it in kind of a very mysterious way that I didn't quite know like what where it fit, you know, in terms of like as a novel. It's just it's just such a strange beautiful little book, but it also like stuck to me and and and over the years I would always think about it. It also sent me on a trail of like reading everything of Dennis Johnson's that I could, But I wouldn't have thought about it as an adaptation because it's such a for those of you who who haven't read it, it's only a 116 pages and yet it it encompasses eighty five years in a in a person's life. It's stream of consciousness. It's all over the place. And until I was after Jockey was approached by some of our fellow producers who had the rights to the book and and were trying to adapt it and asked me about adapting it. All that to say, I felt a ton of responsibility to it out of love for the for the material and and out of love for the author and did not wanna do a bad version of not only this book but any of Dennis Johnson's books. But then I also I don't know why, maybe out of stupidity at the time, but like just felt a lot of freedom from it as well. And felt like I was translating it into a new medium. And so I didn't feel like I had to do anything. I I felt like I needed to be true to the spirit of the book, and then outside of that and true to the spirit of Grineer, the character. But then outside of that, could kind of do what needed to be done to to put it into a new medium and use it as a springboard to talk about things that that I wanted to explore,

[11:47]Teddy Schwarzman: either that I found in the in the novella or or that that I wanted to explore because of the novella. If that makes sense. Absolutely. And I I think, you know, I'm excited to get to Joel, but I just wanna follow-up really quickly, is, you know, what was it within Train Dreams that you felt was important to bring to the world? Like, why adapt Train Dreams? What did the book and

[12:11]Joel Edgerton: slash the adaptation you hoped to create? Like, what did it signify to you? I think a lot like, and the things that we connected over, I I think all three of us, the at the there's a lot that felt exciting about it cinematically in terms of what it what it felt like it could do in terms of jumping around in time. And and it had a love story. It had death. It had logging. It had it had all these different things. It had it it interrogated our relationship with nature and the natural world around us. But at the bottom of it, it was just the story of of Grineer. And and taking this, it felt really compelling and and like a beautiful task to take this life. And the thing that I think is special about the book that it does is like, take this life that barely even be talked about after he's gone. Maybe, you know, in this little town of Bonners Ferry, once the guy died, they, you know, they was like, someone would vaguely mention him at the feed store. I'm like, oh, the guy lives in the woods? And take that life and show it for all of its beauty and depth and and power as a as a life. You know? And and Joel, I guess, I should go back and and I'm sure everybody who is here knows who Joel Edgerton is, but Except me. Except for mine. The soul's fine. The soul's fine. Continues.

[13:30]Teddy Schwarzman: But from from, you know, one one of the best actors working today, know, an incredible human being and also an incredibly skilled filmmaker in his own right to the extent that you haven't seen the gift and and he's working on his own projects that he promised he would share with me that he didn't and I just want to make sure that I continue to let him know that I'm hurt by that process. But Black Mass, Great Gatsby, Gatsby, I mean, you know, Golden Globe nominated for Loving and now two time Golden Globe nominated for Training. You you know, I I personally can't think of anybody else encompassing who Robert is and yet, I think there's there's always a bit of a kiss that that comes into how projects come together. How how did you first get exposed to to Train Dreams? How did how did and how did you get involved with the project?

[14:32]Clint Bentley: So I had been gifted the novella on the heels of the my the second film I directed, which was an adaptation. The the only time I've ever made a movie that was an adaptation of Boy Raised. And I was gifted the novella, you know, on on rap by somebody on the crew. And and when someone gives you a book, you know, it's different from walking into a bookstore. It feels like the person knows you and maybe they think that this book might mean something to you and it did. Read it immediately. In fact, I think I was just telling Clint, I reread the book for the fourth time on the plane, knowing I was coming to a bookstore. Was like, I'm just going to read the first couple of chapters. Again, I was just drawn right in, didn't leave my seat, read it in one sitting. And as Clint points out, you know, you dive into the entirety of one man's life in such a short span of time and you drop in in different moments and they're out of joint, they're out of time as in the structure. I was immediately taken with it so much that at the time I tried to get my hands on the rights to the book, I inquired after it, as a filmmaker and they were taken by a bunch of people.

[15:53]Teddy Schwarzman: This explains why he's not willing to work together.

[15:57]Clint Bentley: And I put it out of my mind and then, I mean, I'll tell you the reason why I look for it, look for the rights is I think for maybe some similar reasons to Clint. And I think the book, for those who've read it and for those who haven't, when you do, which I encourage you to, it's there to be sort of in a way that some novellas don't, some novellas or some books are real. They're quite obvious in that they guide you through something. There's no real what I'm trying to say is that Train Dreams allows you to reach in and you can illuminate certain things in it for yourself. It can become quite a personal thing for you about any number of things, about the environment, about life and work and family and grief and all these things. And some of them, almost all of the things that Robert goes through, person with a long life will have experienced. Though you might not be a logger, you've worked in some way, you have a relationship with family and connection to that and community and so on. But there are things that might really connect with you. For me, this celebration of a normal, otherwise ordinary person and the dignity and the majesty of a simple life to me was really extraordinary. We don't often see that in cinema. In cinema, we often are looking to view the life fictional or true of somebody who did something amazing, who saved something, who invented something, who stands on a higher shelf than most of us feel we sit on. So yeah, I'd looked after the rights and weirdly, of course, one of the most strange things that's ever happened to me in my work life is that four years after that phone call where I realized that the rights were unavailable, I get a call about meeting Clint and and, playing the character in the film. I was like, I wonder if this guy and these people know how much I'm invested in this character and this story. And by this by the time that that had happened, like Clint, I was a young father and anyone who's read the novel or has seen the film knows how much more invested on an emotional level I was to what happens to Robert within the story. And I guess I guess that's a great segue into,

[18:41]Teddy Schwarzman: you know, it has been fun even from when we when we first started to talk about how are we going to talk about this movie, which is something that that that's generally we all need to do because it's it's so nice to make the work itself and then have other people talk about it rather than try and tell people why something is interesting or why it's important. But but but I think, you know, we we first premiered the film in Sundance, you know, where where we we brought it without a home. And now now we're very grateful to Netflix that the film is, you know, in front of millions of people around the world. And every once in a while, these these these stories, you know, turn into success stories. But I think, you know, just going through that process of, oh, no. This is a look at at one man's life as as technology and and innovation and industrialization passes them by. Or no, this is a look at a simple man who stood for simple things and understood all the journeys of life that come in those small moments or this is a story about family or for some people it's a story about loss and grief and pain and finding a way through it. Like there's hopefully something universal or at least personal, if it's not universal, that I think that hopefully people can find in Robert's journey. But I guess asking you one more question. What, like, what was it for you outside of I completely agree with you that, you know, we generally look for for IP. And, obviously, here we have, you know, a Pulitzer Prize nominated novella, you know, from one of the greatest authors. And yet, it's still it's still a, you know, an an intimate slice of life. And and so we tell stories, you know, at least in my world of, you know, the guy who saved World War II, you know, and and cracked the Enigma code or or those the woman Right. The who swam the longest in history, right? You know, and you're trying to do the biggest or the most because that in and of itself feels like it makes it IP property. And here is like the antithesis of that. This is someone who who really leaves behind no markers. Right? Leaves behind, you know, there has no names on any buildings, has no signs of their own individual achievements, but is part of our fabric. But I think trying to figure out for you, Joel, sort of why is a long winded way to get back to, like what did you see in yourself in Robert? Well,

[21:30]Clint Bentley: I think we all see ourselves as ordinary and I think that relates to even people that from the outside we view as extraordinary. I think we all relate to the idea of having imposter syndrome that it's curious that even the CEOs of or the bosses is at Netflix who you would consider in the business world, somewhat extraordinary successful people probably also relate to the story of an ordinary person because I think that in all of us, we see ourselves as not that special. Regardless of whether a stadium full of people think you're special, think rock stars still see themselves as not worthy. So the idea that every single one of us is extraordinary, I think is a really great mantra to have in life. Forget about movies, forget about anything. It's like, do not disregard anyone, whatever their show, color, gender, size, origin, everyone has a great story inside of their life. Everybody is an interesting character and by that theory, all of us are extraordinary and it levels everybody, CEOs, kings, you know, masters down to everybody that lives below the ground floor in the spectrum of social life. So I'm really I think people think my life is extraordinary. I know in my soul when I brush my teeth and look in the mirror, I'm just an average dude. And I'm constantly trying to not see myself as anything other than that, because I'm not. I found something really emotionally moving in the story of Robert, because I think that it's full of this stuff that we will all go through in life. And there are some parts of it that I can't even express or explain or articulate that just constantly drew me to that story. And when Clint reached out, it was like a no brainer that I wanted to be a part of the film. And Clint, I guess there's getting the task of saying, okay,

[23:45]Teddy Schwarzman: I'm gonna take on this challenge. And then there's actually figuring out two things, many things, right? But how are you gonna write it and how are you gonna direct it, right? And you have a long time collaboration with with one of your best friends because I'm trying but but with one of your best friends One of them. Right, right. He would say his best friend but you know they would say it's only a fifteen year collaboration. But with Greg Couidar, who directed Sing Sing, but the two of you are have just done a masterful job of of not only adapting stories, but of of conceiving stories and and creating worlds that have have very strong personal stakes and really strong humanity that just goes all the way through them, that brings audiences with while never being cloying and never pandering to your audience. I guess what's the process that you go through for writers in the room of actually adapting? How do you find the spine of how you're gonna adapt? How do you figure out your how many parts you want the story to be? In a writing collaboration, you split it up between plot and dialogue, you know, and then we can get into directing. But how do you how do you how do you make the thing? Today's episode is sponsored by Quince.

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[27:49]Teddy Schwarzman: Yeah. Teach us your secrets. It's

[27:52]Joel Edgerton: very easy. I'm selling a book later. It's different for everyone. And I and I think part of the, like, like, frustration and Joel can speak to this having just finished another scripts and then, like, part of the frustration, but also the excitement is, you get into it and you start a new one. You're like, I feel like I've never written a script before. It's all just as difficult even though you've got more tools in your toolkit. But this one this one in particular, I felt a shape for it pretty quickly from from like a general overall shape of what the plot would do or the story would do of like, okay, we're gonna start the first half of the movie. We're gonna introduce we're gonna meet this guy at his death, and then which the opening changed, as you know, last minute. But, like, but, like, the first half of the movie is going to be I don't wanna spoil it for anybody. So but just The first half of the movie have seen the movie. Oh, that's great. How many people have read the book? Okay. Very wonderful. How many people were here for the food?

[28:51]Clint Bentley: My food. Food. Yeah. How many people came in here to buy a book and then got forced into sitting down?

[29:00]Teddy Schwarzman: Let's just go and get a book. Door is locked. Your eyes now. But

[29:09]Joel Edgerton: I found a shape pretty quick I I had an idea for a shape pretty quickly that that ended up being the shape of the movie, which is like, there was a a a event in the in the book that's very big with a fire that's gonna, like, break the story in half and kind of and upset this guy's life. And then the second half is gonna be how do you get on after that. Now that's that's one thing. Then you get into it, and Greg and I, like, got into it. And then it it's the that's the real work. It's like, okay. How do you do this? And I mean, just in briefly in nuts and bolts, like, we do a lot of outlining since it's two of us, so you're getting on the same page. And and then we take it in chunks. And so one person will take three these three scenes. I'll take these two scenes, and and then we'll swap them. And and so we don't get too far ahead of each other because you're also discovering things within those scenes. You're like, that's gonna be great later. There's one thing I remember, and I hadn't thought about this in a while until something you were just saying, but the what's it about? I think that was something I really struggled with because you're always looking for that in a movie of, well, it's about this guy who's crack trying to crack the enigma, but really it's about acceptance of self, right, and finding your play. You know, like and I didn't I never could find that thing in this book and I kept I kept wrestling with it and I was like, well, it's about the it's marriage, right? But that's not what it's about. Well, it's about grief, but that's not what it's about. And it's funny because I think like, I remember back to, I've got a writing mentor who's a novelist and he teaches at Appalachian State University and he teaches this book. So I called him and I was like, Mark, I need your help. What is this book about? He's like, Don't do that. This book is about life. That's the magic of it, that it is about everything and even though it's so spare. And if you try and whittle it down to like one thing, it's gonna ruin it. You're gonna lose the magic of it. And I think like we were lucky and one thing that I've learned that I don't know how to take forward necessarily, but like we're lucky that it was a IP quote unquote because like it gave the freedom to be able to to like let it be loose and let it be novelistic. And I think if I had just thought of this story in the same way, either a, I wouldn't have had the confidence or the or the understanding to, like, know how to, like, fit all that in there and and to and to find the flow of it. But then also nobody ever would have approved it as a and I think gone with it as a like it having that to lean on was helpful. I don't know if I answered your question. Yeah, But

[31:58]Clint Bentley: think that's part of the reason why I feel like, you know, and this is partly the result of responses from people watching the movie, and I'm sure you guys will we all feel the same things. It is different things to different people. And then if it had been narrowed down to one singular purposeful premise, perhaps it narrows the ability for that blank canvas aspect of it for people to reach in. Because one of the things it is for me is, is it, it doesn't answer the question of the meaning of life or, you know, I don't think anything will, but it circles around these questions of why are we here? What is the purpose of things? Especially when really terrible things happen to you in life. And then what happens after that line in the sand of your life is, you know, the world keeps turning and swallows up events and things get easy, but you move on. I've heard Clint say many times that, you know, the great thing about human beings is they're able to get up and there's this necessity somewhat to just put one foot in front of the other and keep going. And so the movie can be very different for people who have had these bigger, more seismic experiences. And in that sense, it translates into a slightly more hopeful feeling than some of the more naive, not naive, but younger, more unblemished lives who haven't been through some of these big events, who can see a greater sadness in it, perhaps because they know that there's an impending danger in the world that may be in front of them at some point. Yeah. I

[33:46]Teddy Schwarzman: also think that, you know, sometimes, you know, we sort of put on we'll put on the works that are in front of us, our own experience, in a way that I don't think any of us quite fathomed, like, how this film at the time that we premiered it in end of January would have, you know, to now really, you know, starting starting to really come out to the world could have impacted, you know, we're here in Santa Monica, you know, blocks away from the Palisades and, you know, a film that that really we finished, you know while those fires were happening, while we were dislocated from our homes and while our friends lost you know I'm sure everybody here you know either knows somebody or you yourselves have lost your homes but went through just a traumatic event that at that time is all consuming and life changing and in the same way that Robert goes through the terrible loss that that he has of of Gladys and of Kate. And, you know, everyone has different levels of, fortune and luck and, circumstances in how they bounce back from those. But even just, you know, a couple days ago going to The Palisades for their first sort of official event, bringing people back to the neighborhood, and we're at the Caruso Village for their Christmas lighting while we're getting better views while standing on, you know, dirt lots that used to be homes. And it's painful and it's bittersweet and it's growth and rebirth at the same time that it's loss and triggering suffering. And that's just one very small, yet obviously massive experience for those who go through it that I think everybody in life sadly experiences. And we try to tell our children, it isn't about being protected. Right? It isn't about making you happy on a consistent basis and avoiding pain, but it's about going through the ups and downs of pain, loss, joy, friendship, sadness, to feel all those really, really difficult emotions in order to appreciate the beauty, because there is beauty. And you wouldn't necessarily understand it without all the pain that comes with it. This is a way to go to the next question, which which is really what? How was it actually making this thing? I tried my damnedest to not be there. No, I loved working with you guys and it was like a complete joy, but you know Clint you chose an aspect ratio that I haven't seen in in seventy years and didn't tell anybody about it until the first day of filming. I didn't tell anybody about this. That was that was frightening to show up and be like, my gosh. Well, know, it is a story of a lager, but but we're making an epic. And then you see it, and it's this square box that Clint chose to frame. And I'm like, oh my god. We're gonna lose all our money. This is this is not gonna work out. Credit, you didn't say anything about it on the day. I said to a fellow producer, Michael Hymore, in the back, I went to him said, oh, we're in trouble. And and yet you had a collaboration with with a long time, you know, collaborator, cinematographer in Adolfo Velasco, who both of you just speak the same cinematic language in a way that you knew jumping into I don't want to call it a three by two or one by one. You're gonna tell me what our actual aspect ratio is three by two, thank you. Where you somehow knew in ways that I'm not sure the rest of us fully did, that you were actually giving us a window, right? You're giving us a window into this character and into this world that required our focus and drew us in. And not only that, but somehow, also without telling us, decided that you were gonna shoot the movie using all natural light. You know, there's one scene you might have used natural lighting because I've I've started to see 99%. I I really I really think you used no light in this movie outside of candle lights at night, sunrises, sunsets. And we would have our our days scheduled with, you know, when you're making a movie, it's usually about what's what's the page count that you're gonna get through. Right? So generally, the the studio tries to push, you can make it through seven pages. Maybe you can make it through 10.

[38:27]Clint Bentley: One page by the way, for anyone who hasn't been in the movie business, one page of the screen, the screenplays usually, know, anywhere from 90 to a 150 pages, it generally works out to be one page per minute. So to shoot seven pages means shooting

[38:46]Teddy Schwarzman: the equivalent of seven minutes of the movie, which could be a bunch of half scene, half page scenes or three or four page scene plus Yeah. It generally it sort of depends on what it is that you're shooting to figure out how how long will it take to shoot a page. But generally, you know, you're you're Marty Scorsese and you're like, I'm gonna shoot two pages a day and I'm gonna get home for dinner and it's gonna be marvelous. It's gonna be fantastic. Clint took on a really ambitious page count, but also didn't tell anyone that almost all the film was gonna be shot in a three hour window of the day. Did he tell you anything?

[39:24]Clint Bentley: Did you know I was gonna be in the movie? No!

[39:32]Teddy Schwarzman: That was the one thing that's the one thing we were definitively agreed on. Is that if Robert Grainier was gonna be played, was gonna be Joel. The window. You were talking about the window. Yeah. But just trying to figure out, like how did you have the chutzpah to say, okay, I've got all this work that I have to actually get through, but I'm gonna leave it for magic hour. I'm gonna just I'm gonna focus on this short period of time. If I don't get it, I'm gonna try it at the next magic hour and the next magic hour. Frankly, I really hope it's not cloudy.

[40:05]Joel Edgerton: I was a bit more open than than with at least I'm I'm I'm sorry it didn't get passed along. But with with

[40:13]Teddy Schwarzman: at least the other producers.

[40:15]Joel Edgerton: You know, the reality was like, one, we had Adolfo and I, our cinematographer, we had done a trial run of this on Jockey. And and with 15 the crew, 15 people and $350. And in twenty days, we shot a movie almost all at magic hour. And and it was something and so we we established a rhythm and learned a lot of lessons and made a lot of mistakes there that that that we could bring into this. But I think, like, not only you know, we were all we all talked about it open on or early on of of recognizing that, like, we're trying to make a $25,000,000 movie for much less. And and we're trying to make this epic in miniature. And and we're trying to make something I always want to like, whatever, if you have $10 make it look like $25 on screen. And so that was part of it of like, we had this beautiful natural world. Part of it was trying to take advantage of that and make it, like, you know, make it actually look great. And the other part is like, we shoot the film, as you know, in twenty nine days, twenty eight or twenty nine, wherever we started at. On a budget for about a third of what you just quoted. So Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And and trying to do I think we had like, at the end of the day, like almost a 170 slugs that we're trying to get through. That's a that's a scene heading. So so like interior of this store at night is one slug and then if we go outside, that's another you know, and every one of those is a new setup. And the only way we could have done that is by is by using natural light. And if we had to be like, alright, now we're gonna set up all these lights, we're gonna take out those, and we're gonna pre light it. We didn't have you know? And so the nice thing is that it gave me a lot of freedom as a filmmaker that I wouldn't have had otherwise. And then we and then, yeah, we shot splits, which is starting at, like, three or four in the afternoon. We had a cabin or we were under trees at times. And we would shoot we would we rehearsed a lot. And then we'd shoot when the light was, like the light's not as good when it's when it's when the sun's higher in the sky. Just, it it the actors are squinting and, like, and things are flattering. Especially on digital film, digital, like, we're shooting on digital cameras. It's like, it just doesn't look as good. And so we would start by shooting inside the cabin when it was brighter out and the light wasn't as good. And then when it got like 04:35 and you've got that last like two hours of the day, two and a half hours of the day, we would just shoot as much as we could in the magic hour and into blue hour, which blue hour is like twenty minutes. And that's the time after the sun goes down when you've got a little bit of light left. And I just I felt like one, it would be special in terms of your question. And two, it was like there's no other way. It's like if you why why why would you row take a rowboat across the Atlantic? It was like I don't know there's no other way. If I had sails, I'd take I'd use sails. And the only way we could do that is by having a great crew that that that, like, got really excited at a certain point about this approach and and and made it possible. And then and then cast that, like, we could when it was on days where it was cloudy, they would come up, they show up to set expecting because the plan was like, we're all gonna shoot scene nine first and that's the first one up and they've learned their lines for it. And then we get there and it's like, unfortunately, it's very cloudy right now. And so we're gonna actually try and shoot scene 11, which we're gonna do later in the day first. Can we do that inside? And then come out and shoot scene nine when it's when these clouds pass and Joel and Felicity would be like, yeah. Give us five minutes to, like, look over that scene. And that's the only way that that that was possible.

[43:52]Teddy Schwarzman: But speaking of Felicity, I mean, I feel like combination of the the talent of Clint as a director and frankly, the the desire for a lot of people to wanna work with Joel, you know, brought together a really great ensemble, you know, in Felicity Jones, Carrie Condon, William H. Macy, and so many more. Did you have fun? But really like there's such a such great people, you know, and yet such serious subject matter. But it feels like there was a bond that was formed both on set and otherwise. Acting is fun.

[44:33]Clint Bentley: Fun's not the right word. Acting is like, for me, and I don't know if other actors would say the same. Storytelling, which which I put under that banner, writing and acting and directing is a chance to escape life for me. And for that reason, I find it very pleasurable. Not that my life is terrible, but it's a chance to go somewhere else for a short time. And I mean, I was reminded of it not so long ago, was on a set somewhere else, not on this film. And there was a, what's, you know, a day play, someone who was coming in just to do a scene for a day. And and they're holding prop and their hand was shaking. And I realized when twenty thousand years ago when I first started being an actor that I got very nervous about it. And over the years, it's become a real comfortable place for me. And no matter what the situation that's asked of me, it becomes this, on one hand a cerebral puzzle to plan ahead of time, as in to do a lot of thinking about, in order that when you get there on the day, it's not about me or my nerves or my anxieties about anything, it's a chance to be in a scene. And when you get to be in a scene with someone like William Matchmacy, with Felicity Jones, with Kerry Condon, with John Deal, with Nathaniel Arcan, all these amazing actors, is that it becomes even better because it's not just about one actor separately to another actor. It's a dance. It's a duet, it's whatever you want to talk about, or if there's more, it's a band. And you're all doing it together, and it only becomes a living, breathing thing if the writing is great, And the filmmaking as a community is everybody's at the top of their game. The world is built, which we had the real world. Every scene was the forest or a cabin that was a 100% usable as a real thing. And then playing with these actors is it becomes an extraordinary thing. And between action and cut, there is nothing more pleasurable when you're working on something that you really care about.

[47:00]Teddy Schwarzman: Well, that's And pleasure is fun, isn't it? Well, thank you guys. I think, you know, and thank you guys for being here. It's just wonderful for all of us to hear that people here have taken the time to see the movie because time is your greatest resource. And the fact that you made time to be open to this film and made time to be here and are sharing in the experience of Train Dreams and hopefully telling others that you know to see it. It it means a lot, and it actually has a real impact on on the reach of this film, which is really why we're here. It's I know there's, you know, award season and all that going on, but that's really just a tool to to help audiences connect with a story that we hope will will resonate for time to come. So thank you guys for being a part of it. Thank you. Thank

[47:54]Zibby Owens: you for listening to totally booked with Sibby, formerly moms don't have time to read books. If you loved the show, tell a friend, leave a review, follow me on Instagram at Zippy Owens, and spread the word. Thanks so much. Oh, and buy the books.