Bestselling Author Annabelle Gurwitch on Lung Cancer, Humor, and Adventure

[1:48]Zibby Owens: Hi. This is Zibby Owens, and you're listening to totally booked with Zibby. Formerly, moms don't have time to read books. In my daily show, I interview today's latest best selling, buzziest, or underrated authors and story creators whose work I think is worth your time. As a bookstore owner, publisher, author, and obviously podcaster, I get a comprehensive look at everything that's coming out and spend my time curating the best books so you don't have to. Stay in the know, get insider insights, and connect with guests like I do every single day. For more information, go to zibbymedia.com and follow me on Instagram zibby owens. So excited to release this episode with Annabel Gerwitch. The End of My Life is The Unexpected Joys of a Cancer Slacker is one of our Zivvy publishing titles. We are so proud to have helped usher this fabulous book in the world. You may have seen it on the Drew Barrymore show. You may have seen Annabelle on the Bill Maher show. It was debuted at number 60 on The USA TODAY bestseller list, and Annabelle has been in the midst of doing a bazillion events around the book. So make sure to catch one. Annabelle is an actress, activist, and previous New York Times bestselling author, two time Thurber Prize finalist, that's the National Humor Prize. And her essays and satire have appeared in The New Yorker, The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, The Washington Post, among others. In fact, this book was excerpted in so many publications I can barely keep track. She also recently wrote a beautiful essay in the Wells section of the New York Times about her cancer diagnosis and falling well, not falling in love, but falling in fondly in the New York Times. It was really amazing. Also, she is one of the contributors to my book, On Being Jewish Now. She is a Jewish mother, lung cancer survivor, and patient advocate. She says she's a terrible ukulele player and an unrepentant cat lady who lives in LA. I am such a huge fan of Annabelle. She's been on this podcast before. I'm delighted to now have her on the podcast as one of our Zippy Publishing authors as well. Congratulations, Annabelle, for all of your success. Welcome to Totally Booked Live. I really could not be more excited to be here with Annabel Gerwidge, who's the author of The End of My Life is The Unexpected Joys of a Cancer Slacker, which, by the way, we published at Zivvy Publishing. Yes.

[4:24]Annabelle Gurwitch: -I feel like we should high five or something like -All right, let's do it. -Yes. -Okay. -Woo

[4:28]Zibby Owens: hoo. -I should have worn a sweater for the high five.

[4:31]Annabelle Gurwitch: -A sweater? -No, never mind. -Oh, Oh, no, I know exactly what you mean.

[4:35]Zibby Owens: Anyway, The End of My Life is Killing Me. Annabelle, you've been on such a role. If you have missed Annabelle, she is today going to be on Fresh Air with Terry Gross,

[4:46]Annabelle Gurwitch: which is huge. It's almost as big as being on an author clock.

[4:51]Zibby Owens: I feel like it's second, though. It's pretty close. It's pretty close. She was on Bill Maher. She's been in every magazine. She's just like, Symphony Space events, events all over. You've done You're doing more events than I didn't even know. I don't even know how you're getting from place to place. It's amazing. Where am I?

[5:09]Annabelle Gurwitch: Now, you know, the thing is this book, Zibby, you know, and you know this because you published it, we talked about it. This book is is different. It's a little different than my other books. All my books chronicle my experiences as they exist in the world. I mean, I always say, I'm not really interested in me. I'm interested in what it's like to be alive now. But this one is a little different because it's an entertainment and I really feel like we need a lot of laughs right now. We need moments like pockets of joy. And there's a lot going on in the world. So if we want to still be engaged in the world, it can take its toll on our nervous systems, on our mental health. So I want to give a lot of joy. This book is also an educational book as well because the inciting incident was this cancer diagnosis. And the reason why I'm doing so many events, and I'm on what I'm calling the Comedy and Cancer Center Unexpected Joys tour, is that I feel a mission. I feel there's not just a message to this, there's comedy and there's joy, but there's also educational. So yesterday, I was doing Fresh Air with Terry Gross, and then I talked to a cancer support group at Yale. Then I had dinner with a group of oncologists at Yale. And then I did a book signing in Connecticut. And, you know, it's just been a profound experience to bring this book to people. So that's what's keeping me going. Let me give you a little background about Annabelle in case you don't know a lot about her.

[6:54]Zibby Owens: Annabelle Gurwitch is an actress, an activist, a two time Thurber Prize finalist, and the New York Times bestselling author of six books. Her essays and satire have appeared in The New Yorker, The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, and The Washington Post, among other publications. Her books include the New York Times bestseller, I See You Made an Effort, and You're Leaving Win, a New York Times favorite book for healthy living. Gerwitch co hosted the fan favorite Dinner and a Movie on TBS and was a regular commentator on NPR. She is a Jewish mother, lung cancer survivor and patient advocate, a terrible ukulele player, and an unrepentant cat lady who lives in Los Angeles.

[7:35]Annabelle Gurwitch: All those things are true.

[7:38]Zibby Owens: And our book is a national bestseller. Yes, two weeks in a row. Actually, I didn't even look today to see if it's the third week, but hopefully somebody will do that now quickly. Thank you, Kathleen. We shall see. We shall see. Annabelle, Okay, you got a stage four cancer diagnosis years ago, thanks to COVID in a way. Talk about that moment. So

[8:03]Annabelle Gurwitch: five years ago, right as COVID was hitting, I got this out of the blue, diagnosis, which was for stage four lung cancer. I went in for a COVID test. I walked out with stage four lung cancer. It was in an urgent care. And the only reason I agreed for an x-ray was I thought the doctor was cute and he had a thing for older women. It was really At the time, I was going through a divorce. It was a difficult moment. And his cute doctor said to have an x-ray. I'm like, I just have a little cough. I had tested negative for COVID. This led to further testing, finding out that I had this mass on my lung. It was a really difficult time. My son was one of those COVID graduates in college. So he was home living the dream in his childhood bedroom, quarantining with mom, who now has cancer. I mean, it was just disastrous, difficult moment. I was getting a divorce. This was kind of a collapse of my entire emotional system because what happened was I was able to get stabilized physically through a targeted medication which keeps the cancer stable, which I'm still on five years going. Which is amazing. Yes, science. I am made of pharmaceuticals, caffeine, and personal lubricants. We'll talk about that. Those three things have kept me going. And I really endorse them, and we'll talk about that. So the thing is, is my physical health was stabilized, but my emotional health was in ruins. And this is where the book is really dedicated to. I thought I would be writing a book about making peace with my death. What I ended up doing is writing a piece about how to live when you don't die but you have a greater sense of your time that's left and how do you want to spend it and how did I want to spend it, I had to reframe the way I felt I was living my life. And that's where the book really starts.

[10:28]Zibby Owens: Amazing. Annabel, tell us about when you said yes to all of these adventures. You talk about how you wanted to live your life. Next thing you know, you're getting UTIs from having so much time with your friend Jeremy. And going on for band When

[10:49]Annabelle Gurwitch: you decide to change your life and say yes to things that sound like terrible ideas, this is how you end up traveling with a heavy metal band at sixty one working as their merch girl on a low rent band tour of Europe where you're sitting on the hump squished between band members, a position they call riding bitch. Who knew? Not like like like I'm a bitch, but riding like you're the lowest person of importance. But it started with this idea that I felt I had internalized this idea of carpe diem, you know, seize the day. And it's just the knock of opportunity. Hello? Opportunity knocks. And, when you reframe your, thinking, you say, Yes, whatever is out there. And this is what I did. So I was determined to carpe every DM. And I went a little crazy. Okay. So it was a little manic at first. I wanted to do everything. So my fingerprints disappeared. It's a side effect of the medication that can happen. I emailed my friends and I said, Does anyone need someone murdered? For a really good reason. And then I tried to steal artwork from the basement wall of the Cedars Sinai Hospital where I was receiving care because it was in the basement. What's it I'm gonna liberate it. What could happen? A life sentence? I mean, it was a little less. And this is when, at the same time, I was matched with a cancer mentor. I was really struggling. And I had the good fortune to have someone recommend to me Immerman Angels, an organization that matches people who have the same disease as you, who can help guide you, through your, I hate this word, journey. They've taken the word journey that's so great, adventure, travel, and it's always linked with cancer. I wish I want us to think of another word for it. We're going to have to We all have an assignment in this room. I was matched with someone who had the same thing as me, and she was a septuagenarian. And Hardy, my angel, recommended to me, because I was like, I don't know. How do I do this? And she would listen to me and she had a sense of humor, which was hard for my family to have a sense of humor. On my first year, my first Canciversary, I had a cake made that said, Not dead, just resting. It so upset my sister. But my angel mentor from Immigrant Angels, Hardy, thought it was really funny. Hardy said, You could start a relationship. I was like, No, can't. She said, You could be in it just for the sex. I was like, I haven't done that since my twenties.

[13:57]Zibby Owens: And so this opened up another You level haven't done what since your twenties?

[14:02]Annabelle Gurwitch: And it just for the sex. Two marriages later. And I want to mention that I've been talking a lot about this on the tour because it's part of the educational element of this journey, which is that I want to make it, if there's any taboo for anyone out there, to seek support, I want to just tell you what a wreck I was and how much that first cancer mentor helped me. And then I joined support groups. And last year I enrolled in the chaplaincy service at my hospital. Support is out there and at every cost level and also free. And it's just, I want to make it safe for everyone to feel comfortable about that. And I just want to say that with us today is founder, along with his mother, Janie, of Immerman Angels, Johnny Immerman. Aw. Who I'm meeting for the first time. So And this is this was the beginning. And and and I went on and I ended up starting to see someone, the manager of this heavy metal band, and this is how you end up. You're three weeks into a relationship and you have stage four cancer, and you're saying, I wanna take contrary action. So when someone says, Do you wanna go on a European vacation? We're gonna go to London, Amsterdam, The Netherlands and wind up in Paris. That day, Zippy, that day was the same day my oncologist had said to me, Now is the time to drink the fine wine. And I thought, this sounds like a bucket list trip. And then he says, Oh, I manage a heavy metal band and you can come on this low rent van tour if you'll agree to sell merch. And I said, Yes, because it sounded terrible, but I was saying yes to things. And that trip really changed my life though. And I write about this in the I'm With The Band story where I write about how on that trip, it was actually traveling with these 27 year olds. I was working as their personal assistant unpaid. They were not only ignoring me, they were actively ignoring me. No one learned my name. Was charging their phones. I was getting them snacks. I went on a shroom's run to Rotterdam because the drummer needed to be high at a music festival in The Netherlands. I sold $1,400 of their merch, and they gave me the gift of indifference. Why was that a gift? That was a gift because for a year and a half I had been Annabelle Gurwitch, stage four cancer patient. And for one week, I was band mom. Band mom was not cancer mom, as my son had started to call me. And if I wasn't cancer mom, then I didn't have to seize every day. It was exhausting. I didn't have to try to live every day like it was the last day of my life. It freed me from that. And at that point in the book, when you read it, you'll see I started new ideas. So each of the chapters is really about experiments and thinking. That's when I realized after having that experience and being treated like an ordinary person again, like a person who wasn't going through this difficult thing, that I needed to look to my daily life, to little joys, and to think about that as my goal. Because I still live with this existential dread, I still have this diagnosis, and in a way, it's a lot like our lives today where you're getting all this news, you don't know where things are going to happen, you're trying to find a way to survive through this and stay engaged in life. A certain aspect of the future has been taken from me. And in its place, I have put and prioritized every day. And I don't wanna be one of those people, and I don't think I'm one of those people who says, My life is terrible. Now it's better because I know? But I am living a very a joyful life. I also have days when I can't get out of bed. I just wanna say that. Like, it's not all per you know? I'm not like I'm an entirely new person now, but I have reframed how I experience things. And, you know, it's a the book is hopefully an invitation through this storytelling for everyone to think about that. And, you know, it's it's just so much fun to get to write about. I write about how art has influenced me and music and other authors and all those things I just find so redemptive. And I hope it's in some way because I'm a storyteller, I don't write prescriptives. I hope it's in some ways inspiring to everyone. I'm not above that. I like that idea. So I also have failed experiments. I just want to say that too. Today's episode is sponsored by Quince.

[19:33]Zibby Owens: Summer always makes me rethink what I'm reaching for every day. Lighter fabrics, better materials, pieces that just feel good the moment you put them on and look effortless. That's why I keep coming back to Quint's. They focus on high quality essentials. Think breathable linen, soft organic cotton, washable silk, but without the luxury markup. It's that rare balance where everything feels elevated but still easy. Has beautiful everyday pieces like 100% European linen pants, dresses, and tops with styles starting at $32. Their denim is soft and easy to wear. I wear my jean jacket all the time. And their organic cotton sweaters are perfect for layering on cool summer nights. Everything at Quince is priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands. Quince works directly with ethical factories and cuts out the middlemen, so you're paying for quality, not brand markup. And it's not just clothing. Quince has really become a destination for elevated essentials across home, kitchen, bedding, and beyond, making it easy to bring a more premium feel into everyday life. In addition to my jean jacket, I recently got a white tank top dress with a beautiful cotton skirt that is absolutely gorgeous, and I can't wait for it to be warm enough so I can wear it every day, but it has been a cool spring. Elevate your summer wardrobe. Go to quince.com/zippy for free shipping on your order and three hundred and sixty five day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's quince.com/zippy for free shipping and three hundred and sixty five day returns. Quince.com/zibby.

[22:30]Zibby Owens: Annabelle, you have found a treatment that wasn't available a few years ago even. Yeah. And you have talked a lot about patient advocacy and research that's needed and how some states don't even have this test available and some do, and this has become a big mission of yours as well, which is amazing because not only are you dedicated to sucking the marrow out of life, but you are trying to actively improve other people's lives and becoming a patient advocate and a representative.

[23:02]Annabelle Gurwitch: Talk a little bit about that really impressive work. Well, really appreciate you saying that. The marrow, sucking the marrow. My grandmother would be very happy about that. You know, I have been involved in advocacy work for years with many different issues. For me, I'm doing things on two different levels. One thing is that this larger issue of access to medications is such a huge one. I didn't know that the medication that I'm on, which wasn't available a few years ago, is standard protocol around the world but not available to everyone in The United States. And so, how can I feel good about it without feeling a responsibility for helping everyone else to get this medication? So, I'm involved in a number of initiatives, a class action suit against insurance companies that's filed here in the state of New York. I'm involved in research in the oncology world, giving doctors and researchers feedback because we are this first generation of people on targeted therapy. So I'm doing those kinds of conversations within the oncology community. I mentor people one on one. I participate in support groups. You know, There's something I write about in this book and it's the idea of also self care. I want to stretch our idea of self care to service to others because this is part of what I realized in working for those 27 year olds in the heavy metal band, right? Is that by disappearing, I had stopped some of the volunteer work that I had done when I was diagnosed because this is I think a natural reaction. You shut down, you've got to take care of yourself. And the idea of self care is we think it's limited sometimes. It has connotations of spa days and retail therapy. And let me just say, I enjoy both of those. There has never been a sauna I didn't want to get in. I am a Russian Jew who wants to schwitz. And retail therapy, you name it, I love it. I was at NPR yesterday. It was next to the Burberry corporate offices. I tried to break in. Again, stage four lung cancer, what are they gonna do? Life sentence? It's Burberry, for God's sakes. But Terry Gross, but Burberry. I'm not above that. But the volunteer work that I do is not only because it's mission driven, but you know, it's so satisfying to not be me. That's what I love. I work with teenagers and I love volunteering with teenagers when they're not mine because they forget you exist. It's so fantastic. I'll work with them. I could pass them in the street an hour later. Nothing. They don't want to borrow the car. It's the best. And I think we forget about that as something that is restorative. And I just find I get so much energy when I do that. And so I wanna remind people of that. So there's a selfish reason too. Does feed me as well. And so I do write about that in the book too. I want to say one thing about that though. One of the most important things that I felt I needed to do in this book too was to write some, and it's not a prescriptive again, but in the end of the book I do include some strategies and tips for if you are going through care or if someone you love is going through care. And some of that has to do with advocating for yourself, how to talk to doctors. And we were just talking about this yesterday with the oncology department at Yale. In this era, it's very different than generations before where you just do what the doctor says to do. You really have this There are so many different kinds of treatments available and different things that are appropriate for different people's lives. And we have to particularly, and there are men here too, but particularly as women, we have to speak up for ourselves and find ways to advocate that are sometimes challenging to be able to be real participants in our care. And there's something really important I want to say because, last night at this book event someone was saying about like, Oh, it's so great that you're going to these conferences and you're speaking up. I am known in some circles of the oncology world as the vagina lady because there's a connection between sexual dysfunction and the targeted therapy I'm on that's only recently been discovered because if men had that problem, they would have addressed it. But my oncologist was like, No, it's not related. No, it's not related. It is related. Related. And other oncologists have women found that out. He's not my oncologist anymore. But what I wanted to mention is I have spoken I speak in front of thousands of oncologists at these conferences. I can do that, but it's harder when I'm alone in a room, feeling very vulnerable, talking to my own doctor. So I just wouldn't want anyone to have the impression that I do walk in with my list And then I'm so nervous sometimes I forget to open my notebook. So it's a really common experience and I want to just affirm that, that it is something we have to practice. We actually have to practice doing that.

[29:03]Zibby Owens: Someone here before we started said, Oh, you know, I have a really close friend going through a cancer treatment right now. Do you think this is a depressing book for them? Is this a good book for them? And I was like, No, no, this is a great book for someone going through cancer. Also someone who's not going through cancer who just wants a really fun read. But it is not something that is dark and depressing and that will upset someone. This is a very light inspiration, as light as you can be talking about cancer. Well,

[29:30]Annabelle Gurwitch: I have some dark humor in there. So light, dark. I like it all the shades of humor. Think the way I see the world is I always see the absurdity in the world. So I'm never like the joke setup person. But I feel like my life became a Samuel Beckett play and suddenly I am living in an absurd drama. And I wanted to reflect that. It was really important to me though that this particular book, my mission with this book was to look at emotional resilience. And whether that's you're going through cancer or whatever it is you're going through, it was the idea of an invitation to be curious about how far we could go beyond our known selves. And so the goal was laughter and joy because isn't that the goal of what we want, whether we're going through whatever it is we're going through? And so that was really what I wanted to address. And that's also the experience I've had. I haven't gone through and I've been so fortunate so far to not go through this very difficult kind of treatment that many people I know have gone through. But this particular book exists as an emotional solve and

[30:57]Zibby Owens: that was really the goal. I've been really happy to hear people get a lot of laughs out of it. What has it been like on tour so far? You've done so many events already, as we referenced. What are you surprised at from reactions? What are you getting what satisfaction are you getting from hearing from readers who have already inhaled the book? Tell me a little bit about that and how that makes you feel.

[31:19]Annabelle Gurwitch: Well, the first thing people say is, I love the chicken on the cover doing yoga. So I'd like to say a word or two about that. There is someone in this room That's right. Who came up with the idea, Grakkatito. Yeah. Came up with this cover, and this was not the expected idea. The book is about transformation and I had gotten really fascinated with the idea of seeing myself through Greek mythology and these women in Greek mythology, and in particular Daphne, who transforms into a laurel tree to escape the clutches of Apollo. I felt like a Daphne. I sort of feel like a Daphne transforming to escape maybe cancer or what I think of as existential dread, becoming something else. And I started to have this idea of like, Laurel Tree, not so bad. This is a really positive image. And so I was sending Zibby and Kathleen and Anne and Graca and the entire team, pictures of Bernini, the Baroque sculptors Daphne and Apollo, and then paintings of Daphne and Apollo, and then line drawings of Daphne and Apollo, Legos of Daphne and Apollo. It was Daphne and Apollo or bust. So I knew what I wanted. And I happened to be standing in Barcelona, Kraken. Did I tell you this? Did I have I told you this story? So I'm standing in Barcelona feeling very international at a cancer conference drinking a glass of wine. And I get an email from the team saying, Oh, we've come up with a cover. But it's not what you're gonna think it is, Kathleen writes to me. And I said, Okay, I'm ready. And it's a chicken doing yoga. A chick we a chicken doing yoga. And I burst into tears. I'm like Just this feeling of like, What? It was not sadness, it was like sort of shock. I was like, What is this? And I do what I always do. I call my friend, Nina. And I call a friend and I say, Here, take a look at this. What do you think? I don't know what to even think. There's no Daphne, there's a chicken. And she says, Annabel, it's really funny. I don't know exactly what it means, but it's really funny. I love this chicken doing yoga. And then I call my son, my second thing I do, and he said, Mom, is chicken a theme in this book? And then I realized, Okay, this is good. Because if my son, who's 28, is interested, he's like, I'm not sure if that chicken should be wearing pants. And then he's giving me Should the chicken be doing down dog? And I'm like, Okay, you know what? This is really good, I thought, after maybe three more glasses of wine. And then I emailed back the opposite of what I had thought. And this isn't part of my taking contrary action, which was I thought, Oh my God, no. And I said, This is great. I love it. Let's do it. And I don't even understand your genius in coming up with it. I love this cover so much, I didn't realize I didn't need to write an entire book. All I needed was this cover because this cover explains life. You want Baroque sculpture, life gives you a chicken doing yoga. This is the meaning of this entire book. Why did I write a book? Graca, we could just put out nothing and just say, Look at the cover. This is what life is gonna be like. And I just love it so much. So this is always the first thing is people come up and say, I love that little chick. I just love her. And I am that, I'm that little chick doing yoga. But that was a long answer.

[35:33]Zibby Owens: I'm sorry, guys. Would you like to show us your yoga moves? Yeah, I'm

[35:38]Annabelle Gurwitch: still doing yoga every day. I guess I'm made of pharmaceuticals, caffeine, personal lubricants, and yoga. I should add that. But I wanna say this tour has been amazing because, first of all, the events, this comedy and cancer center tour, they've been so much fun. I have heard people from readers who are just getting so many laughs and joy from it. I'm also hearing from people who are in treatment who come to meet me. Some people who are getting into treatment for lung cancer who didn't know they were at risk for lung cancer. A woman came the other day in Columbus, Ohio and said she had seen me on Billmar and had radon exposure, didn't know she was at risk and was now on treatment at the James Cancer Center. It was just unbelievable. This is what you dream of, but to actually get to live that and then every day when I'm doing events, and I'm doing events twice a day every day, it's a little crazy, But I get so much energy from connecting to people. People are telling me their stories last night. I heard about 50 or 60 stories in Madison, Connecticut. And I feel a profound responsibility, but also just so much joy. People have said, I want to join your cancer slacker club. I'm like, Yeah, yeah, we're a club. It's just to affirm and to say, Yes, you are seen in what you're going through. It's just been, an extraordinary opportunity that you have given me, Zibby Media. And so I'm so grateful for this, getting this chance to do this with you, which we decided to do actually. This really came about because we were sitting here I don't know how many years ago now. Was it three? Two years and a ago. Were sitting actually in the auditorium upstairs. You had invited me to do an event and I was like, I'm working with these people. I love this woman. I'm working with this company. And that was when I decided, and I was like, yeah, this next book.

[37:49]Zibby Owens: Are so honored. We're happy. We've had the best time. The whole team is here to celebrate you, and everyone else, we could not be more thrilled that your genius is now out, even wider in the world, even though you've been doing this for a while and have had so much success. This is such a personal, beautiful story with so many implications, and we just couldn't be more grateful. So thank you so much for coming. Thank you so much. Thank you for listening to Totally Booked with Zibby, formerly moms don't have time to read books. If you loved the show, tell a friend, leave a review, follow me on Instagram Zippy Owens, and spread the word. Thanks so much. Oh, and buy the books.