Emily Giffin, LOVE YOU MORE
[0:00]Welcome to Totally Booked.
[0:02]I'm Zibi Owens.
[0:04]I've interviewed more than 2,000 authors on this show
[0:07]and learned endless amounts about storytelling,
[0:10]reinvention, and life itself.
[0:11]Because when you talk about books,
[0:13]you're really talking about life.
[0:15]So get ready to hear from today's best authors,
[0:18]the best-selling and the not yet discovered.
[0:20]Come find your next great read and the story behind it.
[0:24]Enjoy.
[0:26]Emily Giffin is back on Totally Booked,
[0:29]I think for maybe the third or fourth time,
[0:31]I don't even know, she writes so much.
[0:33]For her new book, Love You More.
[0:35]Emily Giffin is the author of 12 internationally
[0:37]best-selling novels, including something borrowed,
[0:40]something blue, baby proof, love the one you're with,
[0:43]it's hard of the matter where we belong.
[0:45]The one and only first comes love all we ever wanted,
[0:48]the lies that bind meant to be and the summer packed.
[0:52]She lives in Atlanta with her family and two dogs.
[0:55]Welcome back, Emily.
[0:56]Thank you so much for coming on to discuss Love You More.
[0:58]Congrats.
[0:59]What's great to be here.
[1:00]Thank you, Sivi.
[1:02]Hey, welcome.
[1:02]Thank you for taking me to Southampton and Wisconsin
[1:07]and all over the place.
[1:08]It was a trip.
[1:10]I feel like I went on an adventure through your characters.
[1:12]So thank you.
[1:13]That's so nice to hear.
[1:15]I'm in New York City bars.
[1:16]All right.
[1:17]It was just great.
[1:18]You know, the doctor world that required a lot of research.
[1:22]I'm not in the doctor world.
[1:23]This is where so I've written a doctor character
[1:25]and I was like, yeah, just the research alone.
[1:28]And I'm like, how do these people do it?
[1:30]But how did you do it?
[1:32]Do you talk to friends who in that world
[1:34]or you read a lot of writing?
[1:35]Yeah, just googling.
[1:38]But it's so fun to give someone a profession
[1:41]that's so different from your own.
[1:43]It's so much easier when you're writing about a writer.
[1:45]But we're a lawyer in my case.
[1:47]But that seems like a million years ago.
[1:51]Well, it's good because it made me feel like I was learning
[1:53]too.
[1:54]So that's good.
[1:56]Tell us, and there's what love you more is about.
[1:58]Sure.
[1:59]Love you more follows a Billy Wright, a successful doctor
[2:05]living and working in New York City,
[2:08]engaged to this wonderful man.
[2:10]She adores.
[2:11]And her life really seems perfect until she gets this call.
[2:15]From her first love, she pulls her back to her hometown
[2:19]in Wisconsin and forces her to really question everything
[2:24]she thought she wanted.
[2:25]You have a really fabulous engagement scene.
[2:29]Thank you for that, too.
[2:33]Surprise.
[2:34]And the pair, I mean, it happens early.
[2:35]I feel like I'm not giving it away.
[2:36]But you're not.
[2:38]It was fun to write that.
[2:39]It's so romantic.
[2:41]Almost as romantic as the Taylor Swift wedding, right?
[2:45]I know.
[2:46]Are you just hanging on every?
[2:47]Yes, it is.
[2:50]First of all.
[2:51]But yeah, so I felt with love you more writing
[2:56]about this, the path not taken.
[3:01]Something so relatable to we all think about our first love
[3:06]and the one who got away.
[3:08]And not necessarily because we are idealizing them
[3:13]or we wish we were still with them over our current partner,
[3:17]but just sort of what would have happened
[3:19]if we had taken that path and what would our life look like?
[3:22]Sometimes I wonder sometimes what those kids would have been
[3:26]like to get right?
[3:28]Right.
[3:30]What would those kids have been like?
[3:31]Would they be taller?
[3:33]Would they be more intelligent?
[3:38]Yeah, I mean, you're always so.
[3:40]That's one thing.
[3:41]I think that keeps people even in failed relationships
[3:44]and failed marriages from really wishing they had taken
[3:47]another path if they have children,
[3:49]because you don't always, you know,
[3:50]you want your children, you wouldn't switch them
[3:52]with any other child.
[3:53]So I think that helps.
[3:55]But again, it's just sort of like
[3:56]that sliding doors concept.
[3:58]You know, that one of Peltro movie,
[4:00]which I've loved then for the same reason,
[4:03]just because the whole idea of, you know,
[4:06]you're at this fork in the road
[4:08]and you make a decision.
[4:09]Even something like where you go to college
[4:11]can impact the whole rest of your life, you know,
[4:13]the first job and certainly relationship
[4:16]with the cornerstone of all of that.
[4:18]So, you know, it was really fun to write this book
[4:21]and give Billy our heroine, our doctor
[4:24]with this perfect life in New York,
[4:26]engaged to this wonderful man.
[4:29]And, you know, someone told me
[4:31]he read the book recently,
[4:32]it reported such kept,
[4:34]and this isn't giving anything away either,
[4:35]but she kept sort of waiting for one of the guys
[4:39]to be a jerk.
[4:41]That, you know, and that makes it too easy, I think,
[4:44]because neither guy is a jerk
[4:46]and it's just sort of different paths, right?
[4:50]And different sides of her.
[4:51]So do you believe in this notion of a soulmate or not?
[4:54]You know, in a lot of ways I'm a romantic
[4:57]and I do believe sort of an true love,
[5:00]but I think it's so much more than a soulmate,
[5:04]you have to, or a true love,
[5:06]you have to meet at the right point in your life.
[5:08]And so timing is so critical to that
[5:11]and you can really meet the person
[5:14]who is like a soulmate or is like, you know,
[5:18]feels like a love of your life,
[5:19]but if the timing doesn't work, it doesn't work.
[5:21]And I think that that is happening more and more these days
[5:26]because people, women are so career driven
[5:31]in ways that they weren't, you know,
[5:33]with even older gen X's
[5:36]or certainly our parents' gen at work
[5:38]were not the same age, but you know, give or take.
[5:41]But I think now, certainly, you know,
[5:44]I have friends who, whose children have just graduated
[5:47]from college mine, just my twins just graduated
[5:50]from college, my twins sons.
[5:51]But, you know, I know of one couple
[5:55]and he works for NASA and he just very much
[5:58]has to be in Houston and she lives in New York.
[6:01]She's a writer sort of in a creative field
[6:04]and she wants to stay in New York or friends
[6:06]or in New York, she loves New York City.
[6:08]She doesn't want to move to Houston.
[6:10]And they're still very much together,
[6:11]but at what point does geography, you know,
[6:15]break a couple up or just the timing?
[6:17]Maybe she'd want to settle down in Houston
[6:19]if she were a little older,
[6:21]but, you know, and maybe they'll wake at work
[6:23]for those years, but it's timing is critical, I think.
[6:28]It really is.
[6:29]It just, there's an essay we published
[6:31]by this woman, Christy Casper,
[6:33]and she, her husband got a new job,
[6:35]like in a totally different part of Canada.
[6:37]And the whole essay was like,
[6:39]how she was going to have to approve her whole life
[6:41]and change everything.
[6:42]And I literally wrote her after when I was like,
[6:43]do you think maybe you could stay?
[6:45]I'm like, he could go.
[6:47]Like it's not my business.
[6:48]You know, I'm like, I'm sure she was like,
[6:50]get out of my life.
[6:50]And I'm like, really doesn't sound like
[6:52]you want to make this move.
[6:53]Maybe it'd be a happier part.
[6:55]And she said, I wouldn't, she said,
[6:57]oh, she said, actually we win and it was fine.
[6:59]And, you know, it's all good.
[7:01]That was, and I was like, okay, sorry.
[7:03]I will stop crying in your life.
[7:05]But, you know, I guess crying into other people's lives
[7:07]part of what makes us so interested in books
[7:09]and fictitious people and, you know, exploring all these things
[7:13]is like, as you said, the what if and, you know,
[7:17]could you make it work this way?
[7:18]And what if we did it that way?
[7:19]And that's what life is all about, right?
[7:21]Right.
[7:22]There really is, yeah.
[7:24]Relationships can be fluid and, you know,
[7:27]did you debate the ending?
[7:29]Did you always know the ending to this book?
[7:31]So usually when I sit down to write a book,
[7:33]I have a beginning, middle, and an end in mind.
[7:37]And so I, you know, I have that loosely in mind
[7:41]and then the plot sort of flows from the characters.
[7:44]But very often, I, the ending changes.
[7:48]And I think in this case, well, I know in this case,
[7:50]it did, it did change.
[7:52]I had one idea of what I thought how it would work out.
[7:56]And then you get to know the characters, right?
[7:59]In the beginning, they're like strangers.
[8:01]You know, they're people that you've just met.
[8:02]And new friends, I should say, not strangers completely
[8:06]because you're sort of in their life.
[8:07]But as you write the book and get to know them more and more,
[8:11]you sort of are like, no, she wouldn't do that.
[8:14]She would do this.
[8:15]And then, of course, you get to know the ancillary characters
[8:18]more, you know, there's not a true antagonist in this book.
[8:23]But the man and understand her friendship with Aaron
[8:27]and then sort of that tailors,
[8:29]the direction of the book, then some ways.
[8:32]So when you were writing it, did you find yourself rooting
[8:36]for one outcome more than other?
[8:38]Or did you just like let it go?
[8:39]You know, at various points, I found myself,
[8:42]you know, when I was writing a scene, you know, one scene,
[8:46]I would be rooting for one character and, you know,
[8:50]and that's, I mean, doesn't that true to life, too?
[8:52]Haven't you ever been in a situation where it's like,
[8:55]you want two things?
[8:56]Yes.
[8:57]Is that the same time or you're torn about a job
[9:00]or you're torn about where to live
[9:02]or you're torn about, in some cases, a relationship?
[9:06]It can happen.
[9:07]I can happen.
[9:08]100% are you feeling torn about anything now?
[9:12]In my own way of your own life?
[9:14]Yeah.
[9:15]Well, you know, I think, yeah, I'm at a juncture right now
[9:20]with, I have three children, as I mentioned,
[9:22]to just graduate from college.
[9:24]They were in Columbia in the city, and yeah,
[9:28]thank you.
[9:29]It feels like a big deal.
[9:30]But then my daughter is a senior in high school,
[9:33]and she's going off to college.
[9:35]So I am like a true empty nester.
[9:38]And since we last saw each other,
[9:39]I think we saw each other four years ago.
[9:42]I mean, we've talked since,
[9:43]but four years ago, it's face to face.
[9:45]I think my son entered us with me.
[9:47]And we were like, I am divorced.
[9:49]I don't know if you knew that, but yes, so surprise.
[9:53]I've been divorced for two years now,
[9:55]but so, you know, I have friends to talk about
[9:57]being an empty nester.
[9:58]I'm a true empty nester.
[9:59]It's just my dog.
[10:00]I'll get in me.
[10:00]I guess that's true.
[10:01]If it weren't for Hank,
[10:02]I'd be the truest form of empty nesting.
[10:05]But yes, I would say the crossroads is like,
[10:10]I can, as a writer, I can write anywhere.
[10:13]I can live anywhere.
[10:14]My children, my last child
[10:16]is graduated from high school tying me to Atlanta.
[10:19]So I wouldn't say necessarily torn,
[10:22]but very open in my life is very open-ended now.
[10:26]Where do I want to live?
[10:27]And do I want to stay in this house?
[10:30]Do I want to go get some more else?
[10:31]Do I want to stay in this house?
[10:32]Just travel a lot.
[10:34]So it's exciting.
[10:35]It's a mixed bag.
[10:38]It's bittersweet.
[10:39]I'll miss her so much.
[10:41]I'll miss Harry at my daughter so much.
[10:43]She's such a presence,
[10:45]such a vibrant presence in this house.
[10:47]And my life has really revolved around her and the kids
[10:50]for so long.
[10:51]But this is an opportunity.
[10:52]And I'm really trying not to be the trope of an empty nester.
[10:57]You know, the grieving parent too.
[11:00]I don't know what I'm going to do.
[11:02]It's going to be hard.
[11:03]It's going to be different, but I'm excited.
[11:06]I feel like I can see this on the horizon, not as soon as you.
[11:10]I mean, my children, my children, my twins are going to college
[11:14]in the fall.
[11:15]But I saw something really?
[11:16]Yeah.
[11:17]Yeah.
[11:17]But I have two others at home who are still little,
[11:20]ish middle schoolers.
[11:22]So I have time.
[11:23]But it's hard not to think about the after, right?
[11:27]And then the more I learn about people who already are in the empty
[11:30]nest phase, the more it feels like people think responsibilities
[11:35]end and yet they really don't.
[11:36]Like there's so many more things on your plate than you think.
[11:40]Like you can't just take off and go to Jamaica for like six months or something.
[11:43]Do you know what I mean?
[11:44]There's still so much life stuff related to everything else and new demands
[11:48]and parents and aging parents.
[11:50]It's just still like this crazy time that I think
[11:53]that has misrepresented a little bit.
[11:56]Yeah.
[11:56]You can never really let go and really push your responsibilities.
[11:59]I mean, you know, we both are career women and you mentioned aging parents.
[12:03]My mother's going through some things.
[12:05]It sounds like you might be experiencing that too.
[12:07]And so yeah, there's always responsibilities.
[12:10]But in terms of carving out what your life can look like,
[12:15]and that's something that I also love to explore in my books.
[12:19]Quite a few of them have a moment in time where it's like, you know,
[12:25]something happens that forces the person to examine the life they're living
[12:30]and decide if they're on the right path.
[12:32]And sometimes those things come about.
[12:34]I mean, my first novel, something borrowed, but she just turning 30 made her,
[12:40]you know, kind of, oh my gosh, I'm turning 30.
[12:42]Like what am I doing?
[12:43]You know, which seems now at 54.
[12:46]I'm like, what was she so worried about 30 is like as well be 20.
[12:51]But, you know, these, these various points in your life,
[12:56]um, for Billie came with this phone call.
[12:58]She comes in this phone call.
[13:00]She learns of this thing that happened, you know,
[13:02]she rushes back to her hometown and, you know,
[13:07]revisits this, you know,
[13:09]chapped her in her life that she thought was very much closed.
[13:13]Um, so yeah, I think that happens in real life.
[13:16]And it definitely happens in my fiction.
[13:18]That, that is one theme that I think that I examine a lot.
[13:22]And this idea of female friendship is just in the heart of all my books.
[13:25]And this is very much even though it's about a romantic love.
[13:30]It's also very much about female friendship.
[13:32]And, you know, having that in a way, your first true love, your oldest friend.
[13:38]And, you know, those friendships really get us through our lives.
[13:44]You know, for some men, it's true, but certainly I think for women.
[13:47]I don't know what I would have done without my friends over the last couple of years.
[13:51]And I think, you know, Billie, our heroine in the book has her friend from the past.
[13:59]And then her new friends in New York City that are newer friends who are,
[14:05]you know, doctors with her, her partners that her fertility clinic.
[14:09]And those layers of friendship and how friendships come in cycles.
[14:14]What you need at one point in your life might not be what you need in a later point in life.
[14:19]And they have been flow, but you have certain friends that are just like this common thread throughout your life.
[14:25]And so that's obviously something that again, going back to something borrowed,
[14:30]which I mentioned just because it's my first book, but that was very much about a female friendship.
[14:34]And whether, you know, that was a true friendship or whether it was time to get us in a friend.
[14:41]Sometimes that happens, right?
[14:42]A friendship becomes toxic.
[14:44]And we, you, we reinvent ourselves in some way or shape or form.
[14:50]And then we decide like this friendship is no longer, you know, serving me, which sounds very callous.
[14:56]But that's part of life, right?
[14:58]Like it's really, you know, we evolved, they evolved.
[15:01]And I think that's okay to honor the time you had together and then sometimes, you know, move on.
[15:07]Well, that, that doesn't really happen in this book, but no spoilers, you know, you'll see.
[15:12]I'm without female friendships, where would we be, right?
[15:17]Yeah, you're present.
[15:18]Totally great.
[15:19]Are you working on a new book?
[15:20]Like is that part of this plan of your life?
[15:23]So for sure.
[15:24]Yes, I think I'll write until I can't, you know, until hopefully I don't develop.
[15:30]Some sort of, you know, memory loss problem.
[15:33]But it's like, that's the one thing about being a writer.
[15:35]You can really, you can just be in your rocking chair, you know, you can.
[15:39]And just writing as a little old lady.
[15:41]So I have been in a pattern now for like probably 15 years of publishing every other year.
[15:47]So that has worked nicely for me.
[15:49]I was doing one year.
[15:52]And that felt like attorney hours.
[15:56]Like when I was a, a young associate at a law firm, it felt like that demanding.
[16:01]And so I went to every other year and it's a nice lifestyle or I sort of work 40 hours a week.
[16:07]And, you know, write and work on the marketing side and to my social media, which is part of my job that I enjoy.
[16:15]and, yeah, so a book in two years.
[16:19]And let's just say some of the themes that we talked about on this call of emptiness.
[16:24]Marriage and divorce and friendship are definitely going to be examined in this next book.
[16:30]Not yet titled titles are so hard for me.
[16:33]But I love this title.
[16:35]Love you more.
[16:36]I mean, I want to give it to all my kids just based on the title alone, you know,
[16:40]to each other.
[16:41]I mean, so many people say that.
[16:42]But yeah, it's a perfect gift.
[16:44]Even just say, I love you to someone you're thinking of.
[16:47]A very good friend or something.
[16:49]Well, thank you.
[16:50]I really hope people like it.
[16:52]I mean, there's this moment.
[16:53]It books out, you know, in a couple of weeks.
[16:55]I'm not sure where this airs.
[16:56]But, but it's you have these characters in your head and your editor in your agent.
[17:01]If you close friends, I've read them.
[17:02]But I'm just so excited to introduce these people to my readers.
[17:07]And there's the feeling of, you know, every book that I write.
[17:13]I want there to be readers who say, this is my favorite book you've ever written.
[17:18]And, you know, that's been true all along.
[17:22]Like, it's, you know, you write a new one and you're like, Oh, what if people don't love this one?
[17:28]It's not going to be everyone's favorite.
[17:30]But you want there to be a group of readers who are like, this is my favorite.
[17:34]I feel confident that that's going to happen with this book.
[17:37]It has a little bit of a feeling of some of my older books of the nostalgia and the romance.
[17:44]But I think it has the point of view and hopefully the wisdom of a slightly older person who I am.
[17:51]So, yeah, I'm just so excited for people to meet Billy, and Mick, and Dean, and Aaron, and these people who feel very real to me.
[18:01]They feel real to me now too.
[18:04]I love that.
[18:05]Emily, thank you so much.
[18:07]And, you know, I'm, I'm like more than a decade after my divorce, but I'm here if you have any questions.
[18:13]Thank you.
[18:14]I might be hitting you up there.
[18:15]Okay.
[18:16]But I appreciate that.
[18:17]And look, we both came out of the other side just fine.
[18:20]That's right.
[18:21]So, yeah, new changes.
[18:23]Yes.
[18:24]Exactly.
[18:25]Well, thank you so much for having me.
[18:26]And thank you for all you do for, for, for books and for readers.
[18:30]And, um, Shirley female writers and just really, we appreciate you, Zibi.
[18:35]Oh, thank you.
[18:36]Thank you.
[18:37]Thank you so much.
[18:38]Okay.
[18:39]It's summer.
[18:40]Happy summer.
[18:41]You too.
[18:42]Okay, you too.
[18:43]Bye bye.
[18:44]Thank you for listening to Totally Booked with Zibi, formerly momstone have time to read books.
[18:47]If you loved the show, tell a friend, leave a review, follow me on Instagram at Zibi Owens,
[18:53]and spread the word.
[18:55]Thanks so much.
[18:56]Oh, and bye the books.