Chris Young, THE WOUND IS WHERE THE LIGHT ENTERS: A Memoir of Resilience
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[0:27]You guys, Chris Young, the wound is where the light enters, a memoir of resilience.
[0:32]Oh my gosh, I wish you had been with me on the Zoom as I interviewed Chris and just was
[0:37]so taken, as you'll notice, I could barely get a word in because I was just staring at
[0:44]marveling at his incredible resilience, his personality, how dynamic he has gone through so much
[0:55]and is optimistic, powerful, and here to help others.
[1:02]Here's his bio, so you'll see what I'm talking about.
[1:04]Chris Young is a consultant, author, and public speaker.
[1:07]Raised in Clark's Phil Tennessee, he came of age in a community shaped by severe poverty,
[1:12]instability, and limited opportunity, sentenced to life in prison under outdated federal
[1:19]drug laws.
[1:20]Chris spent more than a decade incarcerated.
[1:23]In 2021, he was granted executive clemency.
[1:27]Since his release, Chris has earned his degree in economics and public policy from Southern
[1:32]Methodist University and founded coherence consulting, a firm that uses data policy analysis
[1:37]and lived experience to reimagine how institutions invest in human potential.
[1:42]He lives in Dallas, Texas.
[1:44]Welcome, Chris.
[1:45]Thank you so much for coming on totally bucked to talk about the wound is where the light
[1:49]enters a memoir of resilience.
[1:51]Congratulations.
[1:52]Thank you.
[1:53]Thank you.
[1:54]Thank you.
[1:55]Chris, this story is amazing.
[1:56]It is so powerful.
[1:58]I cannot believe all the things you've been through in your life, the strength, the bravery,
[2:05]the commitment to writing after all this.
[2:07]I mean, it's amazing and so powerful.
[2:10]Congrats.
[2:11]I can't even.
[2:12]It's just amazing.
[2:13]Yes.
[2:14]It's a labor of love.
[2:15]It was very painful and cathartic to write it to relive all those memories.
[2:21]Oh my gosh.
[2:22]Well, Chris, let's go back and start with your childhood and then explain how it is that
[2:30]you ended up leaving prison, advocating for yourself and becoming an author when you had
[2:37]so many traumas even in the first, you know, before you even turned 18, you had gone
[2:43]through more than people go through in a lifetime.
[2:45]So take us back to that and then let's catch up to now.
[2:51]Yes, my birth itself was very traumatic.
[2:54]I was born premature and I was diagnosed with sickle cell anemia, which is a generic
[3:00]condition where the blood cells have tried to adapt to malaria.
[3:05]So the disease and condition comes directly from Africa and it caused your blood cells
[3:11]to transform from the normal circle in elliptical shape to a hook to shape a clue and clog
[3:17]in your veins, which is very, very, very painful.
[3:21]So as soon as I was born, I was dealing with trauma and hardship.
[3:25]By the time I was eight years old, I had witnessed domestic violence in some of his worst
[3:31]levels from my mother being beat up to my mother stabbing her ex-husband.
[3:37]And when I was eight years old, my mother, unfortunately, lost her battle with drug addiction.
[3:44]She was so addicted to crack cocaine that the lights and water got cut off in her home
[3:51]and we was living with no electricity and no running water.
[3:54]And we live like this for nearly two years, me and my older brother Robert, who was only
[3:58]three years older to me.
[4:00]So it was a lot of nice.
[4:01]I didn't have anything to eat unless Robert went out in the neighborhood and did what he
[4:05]had to do to come up on a few dollars to go get a simple cheeseburger and split it in half
[4:11]with me.
[4:13]And a lot of nights, we didn't have any heat unless Robert walked to the local store and
[4:18]got some cursing and let it curse in either.
[4:21]So from the ages of eight years old to 10 years old, it was very hard, very traumatic.
[4:27]Imagine going to school and the people that you want to be friends with and that you
[4:32]are friends with really don't even want to stand next to you because you're so musky
[4:38]and a future smeller because we couldn't bathe.
[4:42]So from the ages of eight to 10, I was very sad and very heartbroken, very mad.
[4:49]But when I was 10 years old, I angel came into our lives, my older lady in the neighborhood
[4:54]whom everyone loved and revered who we called Big Mama.
[4:58]She chose to adopt me and my brother Robert.
[5:01]But Big Mama already had six kids living with him.
[5:05]So add me and Robert to the equation that's nine people living in an 800 square foot
[5:10]house.
[5:11]That's very tiny, there's no room and we had to make it through.
[5:17]So even though Big Mama was able now to provide us with clean water and food, she still
[5:22]wasn't able to get us clothes and shoes.
[5:24]So I had to go to school with a hold in my shoes.
[5:28]This be where my big toe and the rest of my toes could slide out the front.
[5:33]The same year when I was 10 years old, I happened to witness something that I never thought
[5:38]I would witness, which is the murder of my older cousin, Kudos.
[5:42]He was only 18, I was 10.
[5:45]And it's hurtful as it was for me within.
[5:48]I didn't realize how traumatic it was to my older brother Robert.
[5:54]Robert was 13 at the time.
[5:56]And even though I didn't have a daddy or a momma, Robert being older, he didn't have
[6:02]a daddy and a mama.
[6:03]He was also having to act as my mother and my father.
[6:07]So we began selling drugs.
[6:10]I sold my first form of drugs when I was 11 years old, it was just some marijuana.
[6:16]And I really didn't think much of it.
[6:18]I was just trying to get some money so I can keep buying cookies and candy and lunch
[6:22]at school.
[6:23]But by this time I was 15, I was maybe selling crack cocaine every day, all day in my neighborhood.
[6:32]Fortunately, when I was 16, the police was tired of us.
[6:38]And even though we was young boys trying to be men, we were still breaking the law.
[6:43]And the police rushed in the house that we were selling drugs out of, even though all the drugs
[6:48]in the house were mine, my older brother forever trying to be my protector, forever trying
[6:54]to be there for me.
[6:55]He claimed all the drugs as he is.
[6:58]This was the beginning of a life changer moment for him.
[7:01]Because the next 18 months, he was incarcerated and six months after his release when he
[7:07]was 21, he made a decision and he chose to take his life and I happened to find him.
[7:17]So January 1st, 2007, the only person that had been with me through all the ups and downs,
[7:23]through all the hardships, my older brother Robert, I was witnessing lander with a gunshot
[7:29]wound to the head.
[7:31]Not where I come from, there's no counseling, there's no therapy, there was no person
[7:37]or nothing, no institution to help me process my grief.
[7:41]So I kept doing what I had been doing, which was selling drugs in the streets.
[7:47]But in 2010, the FBI and the DEA, they arrested me for a federal drug conspiracy.
[7:54]And ultimately, I was facing two mandatory life sentences.
[7:59]And life in the federal system means life, it means stay here to your pronounced deceased.
[8:04]It's no parole, it's no way to give release unless you get your sentence overturned or reduced.
[8:11]Despite knowing this, I remain studious with my time, reading everything I can get my hands on.
[8:18]And I just was constantly asking what Stephen Hawkins and other scientists considered the
[8:24]big questions, like what is consciousness?
[8:28]What is on the other side of a black hole is the sentient life outside of earth.
[8:33]You know, I wasn't asking these questions initially.
[8:36]The first question I asked was why is my life so hard?
[8:39]Why is my life filled without these extreme and traumatic situations?
[8:45]And I just began reverse engineering and all my decisions, my mother's decisions.
[8:51]And then eventually America's decisions, because today it's connected to yesterday.
[8:57]Today didn't come out of a vacuum and ultimately, after being found guilty at my trial,
[9:06]I knew I was finna get sentenced to two mandatory life with our sentences.
[9:11]But I wanted to speak because I had that right.
[9:14]It's the constitutional right for any and every person that's convicted of a crime to
[9:19]address the court before the sentence.
[9:22]And I spoke the next year planning, thinking about what I would say on this day when
[9:30]they was getting ready to throw me away, standing in front of the judge and the rest of
[9:34]the courtroom.
[9:36]I spoke for nearly an hour and I spoke about little known American history, economics and
[9:42]philosophy and different branches of science, just really trying to articulate and convey.
[9:47]Hey, had I not had to endure poverty, I could have been a part of the research team of NASA
[9:56]and the 3D house print company in ICON and they're
[10:00]partnership that's called impact, moon the Mars planetary autonomous construction technology.
[10:06]And I could have been advising on this had I had stability had it not been for poverty.
[10:12]I could have been an astronomer and had it not been for all the things I had to endure.
[10:19]I could have been thinking about how to harness zero point energy from the quantum vacuum,
[10:26]but I didn't have stability. I had to figure out ways to keep me clean and then eventually
[10:31]ways to keep me dressed and ways to find something to eat and then eventually deal with the grief
[10:37]of my older brother Robert. That's why I was drug dealer. I wasn't a drug dealer just because
[10:43]I thought it was cool and fine. I was a drug dealer because everything from the moment my life
[10:50]had begun was a moment of survival. When it was all said and done, when I got done speaking,
[10:58]the judge reside over my case, Kevin H. Sharp did what the law required him to do and sentenced me
[11:04]the two mandatory life sentences in federal prison, which mean I would never be released from
[11:10]the Bureau of Prisons unless I was pronounced deceased. Going into my prison bed, I knew
[11:17]that I had a long journey ahead of me, but I knew that I had to stay dedicated, determined, and
[11:23]disciplined. Making sure I kept my mind focused on getting free with my integrity, respect, and dignity
[11:31]while also staying alive in a very violent and volatile environment. In the end, one day in 2017,
[11:38]I got the news I never thought I would get, which was Judge Kevin H. Sharp had resigned
[11:46]in protest, and he was speaking out against mandatory minimums and for my release.
[11:52]Judge Kevin H. Sharp gave up a lifetime appointment, some day he had to get nominated by the
[11:57]president of United States and get confirmed by Congress to even get, and he was saying, hey,
[12:04]I'm going to give that up and I'm going to try to call for this young man's release,
[12:10]and I couldn't believe it. I was over the moon, I was elated, and I was very happy, but I also knew
[12:19]that I had to rather momentum of it. I had to do something, and I asked everybody I had contacts
[12:27]with to try to send the article to people that potentially could help him and help me,
[12:33]and a journalist named Taylor Dovin, who used to work for Vice News, who they did an article on me,
[12:39]she sent it to a lawyer that lawyer happened to be Britney K. Barnett, who was a corporate attorney,
[12:46]but during her free time at night, she was helping people like me give free.
[12:51]She was on my podcast. Yes, yes, yes, she told me. Oh my God, that's amazing. This is so full circle,
[12:58]I can't even get over it. It's amazing. Anyway, keep going, keep going.
[13:03]Yes, Britney is an amazing person, and from the moment I even got introduced to her,
[13:09]I was blown away. I was smitten with her work. Not only was she taking young girls to go visit
[13:16]their mother in prison every single month, she was also taking them on camping trips,
[13:20]teaching them a curriculum, giving them school clothes, birthday presents, and Christmas presents.
[13:26]But she was also trying to help people like me give a release all outside of her regular
[13:30]nine to five while outside of being a corporate attorney. And I was like, wow. And Britney went to Nashville,
[13:38]she spoke with Kevin Sharp and tried to formulate a plan, but Britney had also became an acquaintance
[13:45]and a friend of a very unlikely advocate, which happened to be Kim Kardashian. In 2018, Kim Kardashian,
[13:55]Van Jones, Britney K. Barnett, and Kevin Sharp went to the White House to call for not only
[14:03]clemency for me, but more legislative acts to try to change the system that had been proven to
[14:13]be. So inhumane, the system is very barbaric and traumatic to people. It's like a person having
[14:22]a cut and you're saying, hey, instead of giving you some antiseptic and our bandage,
[14:26]I'm going to cut you again and hope that that helps you heal. And that was 2018. And unfortunately,
[14:35]for me, I wasn't released. 2020, Britney won a very rare, very, very rare post conviction motion.
[14:47]And all of American jurisprudence history, less than 5% of these motions have been granted
[14:53]and Britney won one for me. And she got my sentence reduced from life to 14 years by this time I had
[14:59]already been incarcerated for a decade and Britney wasn't satisfied with the sentence reduction.
[15:05]She was like, now we need to get him released. We need to try to get him to be free so he can finish
[15:10]living what life he does have left. And Britney and by this time, Britney's other client,
[15:17]Alice Johnson, which her Kim hip partner on the hub give free and Kim Kardashian,
[15:23]they all reached out to all the context they had at the White House and kept calling for my
[15:28]clemency. And on January 21st, 2021, January 20th, let me correct myself, January 20th, 2021,
[15:37]I was granted presidential clemency and walked out of a federal prison free. And after that,
[15:45]I enrolled in SMU in Dallas, Texas, Southern Methodist University. And I just graduated with a
[15:52]degree in economics and public policy. I'm literally about to cry. This is like, you are,
[15:57]this is the most amazing story. It's just, I just want to stand up and give you like a standing
[16:03]ovation that you can get through all this and pursue education of all things. And you know,
[16:11]just restart your life. It's amazing. It's amazing. I'm sorry. I mean, I'm just, and by the way,
[16:18]you were the best speaker. I was like, wait, am I doing a podcast or am I like watching a movie
[16:23]right now, which by the way, this has to be, is this going to be a movie? This has to be a movie.
[16:28]I hope so. I look forward to that day when the opportunity presents itself.
[16:32]Oh my gosh, Chris, how are you not angry? You have such a pleasant demeanor. You're like,
[16:40]you seem like you're in like such a lovely mood and like life is great. And then to hear all
[16:44]this coming out of your face, like with your dimples and your smile. But yet you're telling us the
[16:50]darkest things, which are in the book, of course. And we're just as riveting to hear. In fact,
[16:55]obviously you go into so much more detail in the book. And you know, even just the image of you
[17:01]at that age to 10 year old age being so depressed and seeing all of that violence and just trying
[17:07]to figure out how to go forward from from then, you know, why are you not mad? How do you get past that?
[17:17]Great question. And as you said, most people would be angry. And I would be lying. If I said
[17:24]I wasn't at one point in time, I realized once I got arrested that this is going to either make
[17:29]me bitter or make me better. And I chose to make it make me better despite all of it. I realized that my
[17:37]emotions can be a hindrance or they can be fuel propelling me forward. And as I processed everything
[17:45]and as I kept navigating the maze of everything that I was feeling and thinking, I said, okay,
[17:52]I'm going to use the anger towards exercising. I worked out religiously despite my sick of
[17:58]Selenina, despite my hips deteriorating from the bone not getting enough blood flow from the
[18:06]sickle cell crises and hurting daily. I exercise every single day. And I read like my life depended
[18:14]on it. Well, it turns out it did. Yes. Yes. You're right. You're right. You're exactly right.
[18:20]You're exactly right. Are you getting better treatment for the anemia? Are you in less pain now?
[18:27]Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. But I will admit the research behind sickle Selenina doesn't have the funding
[18:35]that it could and should and even with the gene editing that I know has made the news and the headlines,
[18:42]it is not available as it sounds. You know, sickle Selenina, you can have either the trait or the
[18:49]full disease. I have the full disease and even with the full disease, they have two different
[18:54]variations. And they will only cover one variation getting the gene editing therapy and that gene
[19:01]editing therapy is very expensive. It's like two to three million dollars per treatment.
[19:07]Like I mean, I haven't been qualified to get the treatment. And also sickle Selenina calls a lot
[19:16]of pain, a lot of pain. And unfortunately within our country, certain stereotypes and myths have formed
[19:24]around black people want to get high, want to get intoxicated. And so there are a lot of medical
[19:32]professionals that are hesitant to give the adequate amount of medication to relieve the pain.
[19:38]And then there are some that are strong advocates really calling for more research and more funding
[19:46]and making the public be aware that, hey, this is something that we can actually cure. This is
[19:52]something we can actually solve and get rid of. But in the meantime, between time, we need to make
[19:56]sure they're not in pain. And I go into the things that they'll go through.
[20:00]And so I am better than when I was incarcerated,
[20:04]but it's still a headache,
[20:06]because whenever I do have to go to the emergency room,
[20:08]I still have to argue and advocate for myself.
[20:11]And I should, because the empirical evidence is there
[20:15]of what's going on in my body and how painful that is.
[20:18]What goes on in prison that people don't know about
[20:22]that you wanna let people know about?
[20:25]Thank you for that question,
[20:26]because this is a myth that I want to debunk.
[20:32]Everybody is and I have to get each other.
[20:34]It is very violent.
[20:36]It is very volatile, but camaraderie exists.
[20:40]Brotherhoods and bonds are formed.
[20:42]It's a lot of me and that I love dearly,
[20:46]that unfortunately I had to leave behind.
[20:48]It's a lot of me and that I love dearly
[20:50]that have been released.
[20:51]And are people who communicate with me monthly,
[20:54]sometimes weekly and we're checking on each other
[20:57]and encouraging each other and motivate each other.
[21:00]So prison is not all at war,
[21:03]with everybody I have to get each other,
[21:05]is real bonds and brotherhoods that are formed inside there.
[21:10]Oh my gosh.
[21:11]What do you think the point of it all is?
[21:14]You've been through so much and you've chosen again and again
[21:18]to invest in your life, invest in bettering yourself.
[21:25]What is it all about?
[21:26]Why bother?
[21:29]I believe it's my purpose.
[21:31]I believe I am here to help encourage and inspire
[21:36]and motivate people to not only get through what they're going through,
[21:39]but even people that don't have as extreme hardships
[21:42]as I am there, but for them to realize
[21:45]there's power in their choice.
[21:47]And once you realize how you think,
[21:49]affects what you choose, you've realized all the powers
[21:52]inside of you, all of the hardships and problems
[21:57]that society face right now.
[21:59]Humans may, there may have many problems
[22:02]and so humans can solve them,
[22:04]but you have to get through whatever you're going through
[22:07]personally and to realize that there's power within you
[22:12]and you can only realize that when you realize
[22:14]how you think, affects what you choose.
[22:17]And so I'm here to show people that no matter the circumstance,
[22:20]no matter what's going on physically around you,
[22:23]you can think totally different than what's around you
[22:27]because your mentality equals your reality.
[22:30]So I believe the whole point of me getting through everything
[22:33]that I've been through is to encourage, inspire,
[22:36]and motivate humanity.
[22:38]Well, so I'm sure that people listening
[22:41]are as moved as I am by your story
[22:44]and everything else, your resilience,
[22:48]your strength, your sort of approach to life,
[22:51]which is so amazing.
[22:52]Obviously they can buy your book.
[22:54]The wound is where the light enters.
[22:56]But how else can people listening sort of help you
[22:59]and be in your corner and cheer you on?
[23:02]Like, what can we all do?
[23:04]Thank you for that.
[23:05]You can follow me on Instagram and chris.ale.young
[23:10]and I look forward to doing a lot more speaking.
[23:13]I want to speak around the world
[23:16]from college campuses to corporations
[23:19]about the power of choice, about mindfulness
[23:24]and about resilience.
[23:26]And so they can support me by coming to hear me speak
[23:30]in one ways they can come hear me speak
[23:32]as on August 5th, if you're in Brooklyn, New York,
[23:35]you can come to Powerhouse Arena, August 6th.
[23:39]If you're in Azure, Tennessee,
[23:40]you can come to Parnass's books.
[23:43]9th, if you're in Dallas, Texas,
[23:45]you can come to have Parnass books
[23:47]and September 4th.
[23:49]If you're in Dallas, Texas, you can come to Interbank.
[23:52]Oh, in August 10th, I will be in Cleveland, Ohio too
[23:56]in the Kuyahuga Public Library.
[23:59]So yes, I want to speak around the world
[24:03]about mindfulness, resilience and the power of choice.
[24:07]Well, if your dance card isn't too full,
[24:09]try to make time to go to my bookstore in Santa Monica.
[24:12]We would love to have you and welcome our community
[24:15]to come hear you speak and spread the word.
[24:18]So if L.A. is in the cards, please come and not always
[24:22]you can make them in the cards.
[24:23]OK, all right, excellent.
[24:26]What advice do you have?
[24:27]There are people out there feeling like they are never
[24:31]going to be able to get out of a really terrible situation.
[24:34]And if anybody has been in that situation, it is you.
[24:38]I mean, this isn't just anxiety, like life isn't going
[24:42]perfectly.
[24:43]You have two life sentences and you're in prison.
[24:46]How?
[24:47]What is the thing that people need to keep in mind
[24:50]to get through whatever is on their plate,
[24:53]even if it's far less than you had to go through?
[24:57]The thing that people need to keep in mind
[24:59]is the power of their mind.
[25:01]Like I said, your mentality equals your reality.
[25:04]And I know that my sounds cliche and it might sound like,
[25:07]how is that the case?
[25:09]But the proof is in the pudding, as you said,
[25:12]I have witnessed very extreme and traumatic situations.
[25:17]I've literally been locked inside of a less than a bathroom.
[25:22]But it's equivalent to a bathroom and still
[25:26]was able to keep a smile on my face
[25:29]because I understood that none of it
[25:33]can change what I think.
[25:36]Only I can affect what I think and how I think determines
[25:42]what I choose.
[25:43]And so once you realize that you realize all the powers inside
[25:47]of you, I know that no matter what you do to me externally,
[25:52]only I can control what's going on internally.
[25:56]And so just remember, your mentality equals your reality.
[26:00]It can be raining outside and you can be smiling like a sunny day.
[26:04]You can be freezing and you can say, hey, I'm still more
[26:09]and go about it, making the decisions that eventually
[26:13]get you more.
[26:15]Amazing.
[26:16]All right.
[26:17]Last thing.
[26:18]I don't know if you believe in signs or if your brother
[26:22]Robert can see where you are today.
[26:25]But what would you say to him right now?
[26:29]Yes, signs and symbols are for those that can see them
[26:32]and symbols and signs are for wise eyes.
[26:34]And I am a strong believer that he still exists.
[26:38]Just in a different form.
[26:39]The second law of thermodynamics says that energy
[26:42]cannot be created nor destroyed.
[26:44]It can merely be transferred.
[26:47]Ice goes to water from water to steam,
[26:50]depending on the conditions.
[26:52]And he's still with me.
[26:54]He's still existing.
[26:56]And I wouldn't be in a position I'm in
[26:58]had it not been for him continuing to support me,
[27:02]continuing to give me strength and encourage me and guide
[27:05]and direct me.
[27:07]Amazing.
[27:08]And I will tell him, thank you.
[27:10]I will tell him, thank you.
[27:11]I love you.
[27:12]And I really appreciate you because you was everything
[27:18]I needed, even when I didn't know I needed.
[27:22]Well, well, Chris, thank you.
[27:25]I'm so honored you spent this time with me.
[27:27]And that our listeners can hear this conversation.
[27:31]And I am so rooting for you.
[27:33]I hope you'll come to LA.
[27:34]And I am just emboldened over by the book,
[27:38]by you, by the spirit that you're
[27:41]exemplifying for so many other people,
[27:44]and by the work that I know you were going to do in the world
[27:46]going forward.
[27:48]Congratulations.
[27:49]Bravo.
[27:50]I appreciate that.
[27:51]I really appreciate that.
[27:52]And yes, I really look forward to seeing you a person one day.
[27:56]And hopefully we can sit up and enjoy
[28:00]evening with some people helping motivate and inspire them.
[28:03]I love that.
[28:04]Perfect.
[28:04]And you can bring Kim Kardashian, you know, if she's around.
[28:08]Getting better, better to bring Britney.
[28:10]That would be fun.
[28:11]OK.
[28:12]Thank you, Chris.
[28:13]All right.
[28:13]Good luck with the rest of your tour
[28:15]and everything you have going on.
[28:17]Thank you.
[28:17]I really appreciate you, Zibi.
[28:19]OK.
[28:19]Bye-bye.
[28:20]Bye-bye.
[28:21]Thank you for listening to Totally Booked with Zibi,
[28:24]formerly mom's don't have time to read books.
[28:27]If you loved the show, tell a friend.
[28:29]Leave a review, follow me on Instagram at Zibi Owens.
[28:32]And spread the word.
[28:34]Thanks so much.
[28:35]Oh, and bye the books.