Beth Ricanati, MD, THE BRAIDED PRESCRIPTION: Seven Practices for Living Well from the Ancient Ritual of Making Challah
[0:00]Welcome to Totally Booked.
[0:02]I'm Zibi Owens.
[0:04]I've interviewed more than 2,000 authors on this show
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[0:10]reinvention, and life itself.
[0:11]Because when you talk about books,
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[0:20]Come find your next great read
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[0:24]Enjoy!
[0:27]Beth Rickonati MD is the author of the braided prescription,
[0:30]seven practices for living well
[0:32]from the ancient ritual of making hala.
[0:34]You may remember Beth Rickonati
[0:36]from a very, very early episode of mine,
[0:40]or perhaps from the live video
[0:42]that we shot together of the two of us
[0:44]making hala in LA.
[0:46]I will dig up the link and put this in the show notes as well.
[0:51]Beth was also a contributor to on being Jewish now,
[0:54]my anthology, so you might remember her moving story
[0:57]about making hala around the world
[0:59]and how that unites cultures from that.
[1:00]Now she has a new book out called the braided prescription
[1:03]and we recorded this in Zibi's bookshop in person.
[1:08]Dr. Beth Rickonati is a board certified internist
[1:11]and author of the multi-award winning memoir,
[1:13]braided a journey of a thousand hollers.
[1:15]She has spent her career focused on improving
[1:17]the well-being of her patients' lives,
[1:19]in traditional medicinal clinics and wellness programs
[1:22]and now also as an author's speaker.
[1:24]She resides in Southern California with her family.
[1:27]Welcome, Beth.
[1:28]Thank you so much for coming back on totally book
[1:31]to talk about the braided prescription seven practices
[1:35]for living well from the ancient ritual
[1:37]of making hala.
[1:39]Congratulations.
[1:40]It's such a treat to be here.
[1:42]So I think we have to share our backstory a little bit.
[1:46]So when was it that we first met here in the Palisades?
[1:49]Was it like 2018?
[1:51]It was one of the first.
[1:52]It was the fall of 2018.
[1:53]Oh my gosh.
[1:55]So Beth came over and about her book braided.
[1:59]We made hala together.
[2:00]We did a whole video.
[2:01]That was the first time really.
[2:02]The kai was like, let's do a whole movie situation.
[2:05]Super.
[2:07]That was fun.
[2:07]And it worked.
[2:08]We're still talking.
[2:09]And now you have a new, a whole new book, which is amazing.
[2:12]And you contributed to being Jewish now.
[2:14]Yeah.
[2:15]Thank you for that.
[2:16]It was such an honor.
[2:17]Thank you.
[2:18]I loved, by the way, in this book,
[2:19]that you not only called out on being Jewish now
[2:22]in the acknowledgements and all the friends you've made
[2:24]through the contributors.
[2:25]But also, in the middle of the book as well,
[2:28]you were talking about your contributing an essay to that
[2:32]and the middle of your hala practice
[2:35]in all of the places you've gone
[2:38]and how it's taken you to all these places.
[2:40]It's amazing.
[2:41]It has been quite the journey.
[2:42]It has been quite the journey.
[2:43]Since the first book came out, I have been fortunate
[2:47]to travel all over the country giving workshops.
[2:50]And thus, this book was born.
[2:52]because I realized that so much of what I had learned
[2:56]is applicable, obviously, to everybody else.
[2:59]And I wanted to share that.
[3:00]How many hollers do you think you've made at this point?
[3:02]Oh my god, Zippy.
[3:03]Thousands, thousands.
[3:05]I make it least to every Friday.
[3:07]I usually make four every Friday.
[3:09]So it's a lot.
[3:11]So many, many, many, which is super, super.
[3:15]In addition to writing some more prescriptive advice,
[3:19]obviously, per the title.
[3:20]And you have a bunch of different within,
[3:22]even within each one, you have more advice, which is great.
[3:26]But you also share more about your own family.
[3:27]And some of your medical journeys,
[3:29]your son, why don't you talk a little bit about that first
[3:33]to just ground the reading?
[3:34]Yes, so I'm an internist.
[3:36]And I am obsessed with lifestyle medicine.
[3:39]And so I wanted in this book to bring some of that
[3:42]in into the book.
[3:43]So I share about things like food is medicine.
[3:46]I share about some of my own family history,
[3:49]two of our kids have a chronic disease.
[3:51]I wanted to touch on that after talking with them, of course.
[3:56]But it's been a real journey.
[3:58]And it's definitely informed how I think about health
[4:02]and general, health and wellness.
[4:03]Hala, every week, when I may call it in the merit of somebody,
[4:06]I often think about people who are not well that week.
[4:10]And it's been very impactful.
[4:12]And you had your own health issues early on.
[4:15]You were stressed out.
[4:16]You were at the doctor.
[4:18]And that is, in fact, how you sort of fell into this hall
[4:21]of practice to begin with.
[4:22]Yes, I had horrible burnout.
[4:25]But we didn't have that worth then.
[4:27]It didn't really exist.
[4:29]I was trying to be a physician and a mom and a wife
[4:32]and all these things.
[4:32]And I developed chest pain.
[4:35]And I was convinced I had a heart disease.
[4:38]I mean, I must have heart disease.
[4:39]I mean, I didn't.
[4:42]I had anxiety, thank goodness.
[4:45]But I will not but and when I made Hala
[4:49]and I just stood at the kitchen counter,
[4:53]I felt so much better.
[4:55]And I wanted to share that.
[4:57]And I still feel that every Friday now
[5:00]when I stop and take a deep breath.
[5:02]And my favorite part of the workshops is just that.
[5:05]When we're needing the dough all together.
[5:07]And before that, it's the cacophony in the room.
[5:12]And it's the conversations.
[5:13]And it's loud.
[5:15]And then all of a sudden, it just could hear pin drops
[5:18]it be.
[5:19]It's so calm and everyone takes a breath.
[5:22]And I really try and take that with me
[5:26]out of the kitchen, out of the clinic,
[5:28]and into the world.
[5:31]Because it's such a powerful thing we can control.
[5:33]And that's partly also why I wanted to write this.
[5:35]And why I think now it's so important
[5:40]that we, the world's a tough place right now.
[5:43]Let's just say that.
[5:44]And it's stressful and we can't control everything.
[5:47]But we can all stop and take a breath.
[5:50]And it's important to be reminded.
[5:51]And that's what I wanted to share.
[5:53]So let's go through some of your tips here.
[5:55]We have so many taking the book off the shelf again.
[6:00]Okay, so the braided prescription, let's see.
[6:03]So food is medicine.
[6:05]Let's start with act with intention.
[6:07]Talk about that.
[6:08]So you have act, I'll just summarize.
[6:10]Act with intention, stop and breathe
[6:12]as you were just talking about, embrace imperfection,
[6:14]act authentically, engage in a hollow diplomacy,
[6:18]dare to prepare an engaged and positive social connection.
[6:22]All of these so important.
[6:24]Start with act with intention.
[6:25]Yes.
[6:26]So I think it's really important to not only have intention,
[6:32]but to say them out loud.
[6:34]Because if they're just swirling around in our heads,
[6:38]sometimes they happen, sometimes they don't.
[6:40]But when we say we're going to do something,
[6:43]when we set an intention, whether it's
[6:45]I'm making a hollow in the merit of fill in the blank,
[6:49]or I wanted to write this book.
[6:52]And I said I was going to do this, and then I did.
[6:55]And it can be from the small to the.
[6:58]When did you set the intention to do this particular book,
[7:01]the braided prescription?
[7:02]I originally started it four or five years ago,
[7:05]if I'm being honest, and I couldn't get it together.
[7:09]It didn't click.
[7:10]It clicked about two years ago.
[7:12]And then it just, it all came together.
[7:14]I needed the, I didn't have the framework, right?
[7:17]I realized the way I write is I need to have the framework.
[7:21]I don't need to know all the pieces and parts,
[7:23]but I can't get into that flow state.
[7:26]Everybody talks about if I don't have a structure.
[7:30]And I couldn't figure out the structure.
[7:32]It was maddening.
[7:33]I knew I wanted to do it.
[7:35]And I, anyway, so two years ago,
[7:38]it really came together, which was quite exciting.
[7:41]Awesome.
[7:42]OK, so you set that intention and boom off the list.
[7:44]You did it.
[7:45]Right.
[7:45]So I like to talk with people about sounding intentions.
[7:48]And then it's really fun for me to hear back people's
[7:51]intentions and they are very generous with sharing them
[7:54]with me, which is fun, amazing.
[7:56]My intention today was to talk to you.
[7:58]So here we go.
[7:58]We're already crossing it off the list too.
[8:01]OK, stop and breathe.
[8:02]We talked about that a little bit.
[8:04]OK, should we breathe a little bit today?
[8:08]There we go.
[8:09]See, I already feel better.
[8:10]Embrace imperfection.
[8:12]And I love how you talked about this in the context
[8:14]of how not every hollow is beautiful, right?
[8:16]You just have to do it.
[8:17]It doesn't have to be perfect.
[8:19]But that's easier said than done for perfectionists out there.
[8:23]Guilty as charged.
[8:25]It is really hard to always be perfect because you can't.
[8:28]I mean, it's so I like to definitely
[8:32]talk about being imperfect.
[8:35]It's probably my favorite.
[8:36]It's one of my, if not my favorite,
[8:38]expression, perfect is the enemy of the good.
[8:41]I think it's fantastic, applicable in all instances,
[8:44]and particularly if I burn a hollow.
[8:47]It happens.
[8:48]Do you still eat the inside?
[8:49]Usually.
[8:50]Yeah.
[8:51]God, I like the inside.
[8:52]Anyway, act authentically.
[8:55]Yes, I don't think we all always act authentically.
[9:00]Either by our own constraints or by society.
[9:05]But making hollow, it's such a fun way.
[9:07]And this I learned post-braded.
[9:10]So when I made braided, I wrote about how I like plain hollow.
[9:13]And I make plain hollow.
[9:14]And I wrote all about that.
[9:15]And I was really almost frightened about it.
[9:19]I've learned from the participants
[9:22]that it's really fun to experiment.
[9:25]That sounds so close.
[9:27]That sounds so close.
[9:29]OK, sorry.
[9:29]No, it's good.
[9:31]You can make sweet hollow.
[9:32]You can make savory hollow.
[9:33]You can make rainbow colored hollow.
[9:34]You can make pink color.
[9:35]You could, all these things.
[9:37]And you can make something this week
[9:39]and something different next week.
[9:41]And you can own it.
[9:43]And I like that.
[9:45]I've learned a lot about both myself and others
[9:49]through trying to be more authentic.
[9:50]And then take it out of the kitchen.
[9:53]It can be a little more authentic in your life, too.
[9:55]I feel like some people don't act authentic.
[10:00]because maybe they just don't really know who they are
[10:02]or they don't know what that even means, like how to do that.
[10:06]Yeah, and that's why this is such a great,
[10:09]you can try in the kitchen who cares.
[10:12]Because I think a lot of us try and take it
[10:16]in a really macro big way.
[10:18]I have to figure out who I am,
[10:20]but you don't in that.
[10:22]You can try a little baby step.
[10:24]You know, maybe you wear something different, you know,
[10:26]or maybe you drive a different way to work
[10:31]for you make round holla instead of a braided holla.
[10:35]Do you feel like you have a good sense
[10:37]of who you are, the authentic, best version of you?
[10:41]I do now and I didn't at the beginning, you know,
[10:45]I definitely, and I write a little bit about this in the book.
[10:48]I didn't speak up a lot when I was younger.
[10:52]I took a lot of crap from a lot of people.
[10:55]I took a lot to get to be more authentic.
[11:00]It's hard, it's really hard.
[11:03]I'm gonna take a lot of practice and a support system
[11:05]and people around you and a belief.
[11:08]And I get to try every week again.
[11:11]I feel like the more authentic you are,
[11:13]the deeper your connections can be.
[11:15]Right, if you're not really yourself,
[11:16]then how are you actually connecting?
[11:17]You're connecting with like some version of yourself, right?
[11:20]Anyway, okay.
[11:22]Well, if I'm being authentically me,
[11:24]I would say I probably like chocolate chips in my holla.
[11:27]You go to my children.
[11:28]Okay.
[11:29]Engage in holla diplomacy.
[11:31]Isn't that the best phrase?
[11:33]It is not my phrase, dear friend gave me, gave us that phrase.
[11:38]The idea of sharing with others.
[11:40]So every week I make at least two hollers
[11:42]and I give one away or often I make more and give more.
[11:47]It's this idea of sharing with others and I adore that.
[11:53]And so I like to talk about that with people.
[11:55]There's a story I share in the book about this young,
[11:58]at the time, young, young girl during COVID in New York City,
[12:01]who made holla before school with Zoom school
[12:05]and took it to first responders at the hospital
[12:09]down the street from her.
[12:10]It doesn't get better than that.
[12:11]I just love that.
[12:13]It's amazing.
[12:14]Yeah.
[12:15]I'm like, what am I doing with all my time?
[12:16]I should be making bread and giving it to other people.
[12:18]I don't know.
[12:20]OK, dare to prepare.
[12:23]Yes.
[12:26]It is a lot easier when you prepare.
[12:29]It's so obvious when we say it, but it's a little bit more
[12:32]complicated sometimes to actually do.
[12:34]So there's a concept from cooking called Mise en Plas.
[12:37]I did not learn this, though, in the kitchen.
[12:39]I learned it actually when I was training as a resident
[12:41]and a fellow, an older resident, helped calm me down
[12:45]by explaining if I got everything out that I needed
[12:48]before the procedure that I was going to try.
[12:50]It would be a lot easier.
[12:51]And she was right.
[12:53]And so I love to talk about this at the workshops
[12:57]because if we set out the flower and the sugar and the eggs,
[13:00]et cetera, particularly if they've never baked before,
[13:04]it's so much easier if you just take the two eggs
[13:06]that are in front of you.
[13:07]And again, this is very transferable.
[13:10]And that's the point of this book,
[13:12]back to what I was saying at the beginning.
[13:14]We can't control everything, but these little things
[13:17]we can control.
[13:19]It's true.
[13:20]So and it's a muscle.
[13:21]You can practice and you can grow.
[13:23]You can build it.
[13:25]Have you found yourself unprepared for something recently?
[13:28]Are you always prepared?
[13:29]No, I'm not always prepared.
[13:32]So I love the fact I get to do this every week
[13:35]because I am not always prepared
[13:37]and I need the reminders too.
[13:39]OK, so.
[13:40]OK, last is Engage in Positive Social Connection.
[13:44]What we can do in that right now?
[13:45]Got another one, yeah.
[13:48]I mean, all the wonderful authors
[13:50]I've met through on being Jewish now.
[13:52]I'm so glad that that's happened to the kept up
[13:55]with so many.
[13:56]Oh, I'm going to do a workshop for the book in the fall
[13:59]in North Carolina with Dara that I would never have.
[14:02]So yeah, no, it's wonderful.
[14:04]It's wonderful.
[14:04]And you never know where you're going to meet people
[14:07]and find people.
[14:08]And we need that.
[14:10]We need those connections.
[14:11]And ever since I started this with the first book
[14:14]and now I've met so many people, it's incredible.
[14:19]I've made Hala in Mexico and in Spain and in England.
[14:22]And it's crazy.
[14:24]It's crazy.
[14:25]I feel really, really fortunate.
[14:28]Well, I know in the book you also
[14:29]link the Hala journey to pretty terrible events in the world.
[14:34]Like how do you think 9, 11 and October 7?
[14:38]And how these moments in time affected your own personal journey
[14:43]and how Hala helps you through all of it.
[14:45]Can you just speak to that?
[14:48]Yeah.
[14:49]So I had an opportunity to attend touch
[14:55]about the Children's Museum here in Santa Monica right
[15:00]up to the fires when the synagogue in the Palisades
[15:04]was not able to be operational in the Palisades.
[15:06]And they were at the museum.
[15:09]And I went to write a short piece.
[15:12]And when I was standing there with the kids and their parents
[15:16]and the rabbi, I had this visceral reaction
[15:21]that if I hadn't been leaning against the wall in the back,
[15:24]I really think I might have fallen.
[15:26]I was in New York during 9, 11.
[15:28]And I was pregnant with our second child.
[15:30]And the week after we went to services.
[15:34]And I went with our son who was two and I was pregnant.
[15:38]And I just suddenly was there.
[15:41]When I was at the Children's Museum here, it was very surreal.
[15:44]And it was very moving to be in community
[15:49]and to be breaking bread with the community then in New York.
[15:53]And then to be here with all these little kids
[15:56]and breaking bread with them right after this event.
[15:59]And I felt so much more connected.
[16:04]It was really healing.
[16:05]It was really nice.
[16:07]So full circle in so many ways.
[16:10]Yeah.
[16:11]So what about people who are like,
[16:14]I want to do all this, but I'm really
[16:16]trying hard not to eat bread.
[16:19]That you must have them.
[16:21]You live in LA.
[16:22]Yeah, so it's not just about making hollow.
[16:26]It's the lessons.
[16:27]All these lessons are transferable.
[16:28]So short, be great.
[16:30]I think we all should make hollow.
[16:31]And then we can all give it away.
[16:32]So hollow diplomacy.
[16:34]But with that said, we're not going to do that.
[16:36]So it's leaning into some of the lessons just themselves.
[16:40]It's thinking about perfect is the enemy of the good.
[16:43]It's thinking about intention.
[16:46]And then I also throw some medical stuff, more medical stuff.
[16:48]And so it's thinking about food as medicine
[16:51]and really understanding that.
[16:52]Or the tactile arts and my mom's into gardening.
[16:57]Great.
[16:58]There's a young woman I met here who goes to a pottery studio
[17:02]in West LA.
[17:03]Amazing.
[17:03]I mean, just using your hands, I think, is so grounding
[17:08]and helps us feel more anchored.
[17:11]So it doesn't have to be just about the bread.
[17:12]OK.
[17:14]What advice do you have for aspiring authors?
[17:17]You said it was hard to get into the second book.
[17:20]What do you want to tell?
[17:20]I think we all have stories to tell.
[17:22]So I think I'm a huge fan of people sharing their stories
[17:26]in any way they can.
[17:27]And it's writing a book fantastic.
[17:31]But it can also be in so many different ways.
[17:32]Maybe they might have sub-dac essay.
[17:34]Maybe they just post little vignettes on Instagram.
[17:37]Or they may tic-tac videos.
[17:39]I, there are lots of ways to share stories.
[17:44]But I do think we all have interesting things to say.
[17:48]Really great.
[17:49]And what better way to share them
[17:50]than making bread with someone else?
[17:53]Exactly.
[17:54]Yeah.
[17:54]Amazing.
[17:55]Yeah.
[17:55]Beth, congratulations.
[17:57]I mean, this is so crazy eight years later
[18:00]that we're talking about your next book.
[18:02]I know my gosh.
[18:03]It's so awesome.
[18:04]And it's been such a pleasure to watch you just
[18:06]expand and connect with so many people in so many places
[18:11]and it's been really fun.
[18:12]It's just really exciting.
[18:14]So congrats.
[18:15]Thank you.
[18:15]Welcome.
[18:16]Thank you for listening to Totally Booked with Zibi.
[18:19]Formerly, moms don't have time to read books.
[18:22]If you loved the show, tell a friend, leave a review,
[18:25]follow me on Instagram at Zibi Owens.
[18:27]And spread the word.
[18:29]Thanks so much.
[18:30]Oh, and buy the books.