Fran Hauser on Embracing the Twenty-Minute Mindset
[0:00]Welcome to Totally Booked! I'm Zibi Owens. I've interviewed more than 2,000 authors on this show
[0:07]and learned endless amounts about storytelling, reinvention, and life itself
[0:11]because when you talk about books, you're really talking about life. So get ready to hear
[0:16]from today's best authors, the best-selling, and the not yet discovered.
[0:20]Come find your next great read and the story behind it. Enjoy!
[0:25]Today's episode is with someone I have such tremendous respect for. I got to know Fran
[0:32]Houser over the last couple of years and just think she is the coolest. She is a best-selling author
[0:38]in her own right. I'll read her bio. But she founded Bedford Books in Bedford, New York,
[0:44]which she writes all that in this book and I will be there tomorrow. So check your calendars
[0:50]tomorrow, September 26th at 12 o'clock. I will be at Bedford Books in Bedford, New York for
[0:56]a meet and greet, and Fran Houser is the owner of that store. So you will hear our conversation
[1:01]here and then put it in your planner. Come meet me tomorrow. I hope. Anyway, here's more about
[1:07]Fran Houser. Fran Houser is the author of 20 minutes is the new hour, the ambitious woman's guide
[1:13]to doing less than achieving more. She is a leading career expert and vocal champion of women
[1:17]in the workplace, a former president of digital at time, ink, and a startup investor. As I
[1:23]mentioned, she's also the owner of Bedford Books in Bedford, New York, and the acclaimed author of
[1:28]the myth of the nice girl. She has spoken at over 200 organizations, including meta, Google,
[1:33]Unilever, BlackRock, Mastercard, and the conference for women. Her insights have appeared in Fortune,
[1:38]C, NBC, Fast Company, L, Refinery29, and Business Insider. Fran lives outside New York City with
[1:45]her husband, two sons, and beloved mini golden doodle. Enjoy our conversation and use your 20
[1:51]minutes to come to my event in Bedford tomorrow. Saturday, the 26th. Welcome Fran. Thank you so much
[1:59]for coming on Totally Books to talk about 20 minutes is the new hour, the ambitious woman's guide
[2:04]to doing less and achieving more. Congratulations. Thanks, Sivi. Thanks so much for having me.
[2:10]You can't see this listeners, but I am wearing pink to match this cover. Perfect, right?
[2:15]Perfection. And I'm wearing blue for you. Oh, thank you. How much you love the color?
[2:21]Oh, my God. It's so us. This whole book was like speaking my love language. This is the
[2:28]stuff I think about all the time. And you articulated all of it in such a great way. And I was like,
[2:33]okay, now when people are like, how do you do everything? I'm just going to be like here,
[2:37]just take Fran's book because she has all the answers. Oh, I love hearing that. Thank you. Okay,
[2:43]so first of all, you open the book and talk all about how you manage to launch a bookstore
[2:50]in a record amount of time. And by using that as an example, you invoke all the principles of
[2:56]time management that you basically have in the whole book. So start by talking about Bedford books,
[3:01]what you said yes to what you said no to, and how that really exemplifies some of the things
[3:06]that you want everybody to know. Yeah, I think the opening of the bookstores actually
[3:11]the perfect example of this 20 minute mindset because we did open it. We opened it in eight weeks.
[3:19]And it typically takes like six to nine months to open a bookstore. And because we had a more
[3:25]constrained timeline, it really forced clarity around like what we were going to do and not
[3:33]going to do. We didn't have any time to perfect things or procrastinate or fill it with unnecessary
[3:43]tasks because when you give yourself too much time, that's what ends up happening. You end up
[3:48]filling that time with unnecessary tasks. So with a bookstore, it became really clear to me that
[3:54]I was not going to launch with e-commerce. I was really going to focus on brick and mortar.
[4:00]I was not going to launch with relationships with everyone of the big five publishers. Instead,
[4:07]I was going to do my whole opening inventory order from Ingram. As you know, a wholesaler.
[4:14]And I was not going to obsess about all of the little things. Even the logo is an example
[4:21]that I talk about in the book where I love a good logo. But the way that we approached it was,
[4:28]I just, I walked around town with my creative designer friend who created the logo. And I basically
[4:35]said, I love that logo. I don't care for that one as much. Here's why she came back with three
[4:41]logos. One of them, like we tweaked a little bit. And it's awesome. Like I love the logo. And I
[4:46]really think that if I had had more time, I would have asked for like 30 more iterations of the
[4:52]logo just because we had the time. So I love this idea of like just think about how much time you're
[4:58]are allocating.
[5:00]to a task or a project or an initiative,
[5:03]because often when you give yourself too much time,
[5:07]you end up filling it with unnecessary tasks.
[5:10]So I love and also they'll be able to really appreciate this.
[5:14]You know, I got the book deal for this book
[5:17]in September of 2024.
[5:20]I decided in October that I was gonna open the bookstore.
[5:24]So when we sold the book idea,
[5:27]the bookstore wasn't a part of it.
[5:29]The book proposal was really all about
[5:31]my time spent in corporate and start up investing
[5:35]as an author, as a speaker.
[5:37]And then the bookstore came along.
[5:38]And the bookstore opening really became like the hero story
[5:42]in the book, which I also think makes the book
[5:45]so much more accessible and relatable
[5:48]to a much larger market, which is really interesting.
[5:52]So I love that that happened.
[5:55]And I loved that you decided with the help
[5:57]of a friend's advice that you wouldn't fall victim
[6:01]to having to be at the local holiday fair.
[6:04]I'd love this example so much
[6:05]because there's so much pressure to do certain things.
[6:08]But you're like, oh, you have to do this.
[6:09]You have to do this.
[6:10]And it's like, well, I could,
[6:12]but then my focus will be diverted
[6:14]from something that perhaps is more important
[6:16]and meets my time and attention.
[6:18]And it's the whole like, okay, I know this is important,
[6:20]but a million things are important.
[6:22]Let me pick up one.
[6:23]Yeah. And it's also for me,
[6:25]like I love the holiday market story
[6:27]because people pleasing has always been my thing.
[6:31]Like it's always been my Achilles heel, you know?
[6:34]And that was like the perfect example
[6:37]of a friend mentioning this holiday market.
[6:40]And basically just saying, oh, Fran,
[6:43]you're going to be open for the holidays.
[6:44]You have to do the holiday market.
[6:46]And I attached so much weight to those words, you know?
[6:51]And when I then talked to my cousin, Nina,
[6:54]who owns a hair salon in Bedford,
[6:57]she was the one that was like, what's the,
[7:00]why is this so important to you, this holiday market?
[7:03]Like it wasn't even on your radar.
[7:05]And then your friend happened to mention it.
[7:07]And now it's like a whole thing.
[7:09]And that was the moment where I was like, yeah, no, I'm not.
[7:12]Because then I have to figure out point of sale
[7:14]for the holiday market.
[7:15]It just becomes its own like big thing.
[7:18]And it's taking me away from the bookstore,
[7:22]which, you know, we need to open by December 12th.
[7:25]So yeah, I really love that story too.
[7:28]I think one of the main three lines is it's good enough.
[7:32]Like this has to be good enough.
[7:34]I've done my best and now it's time to move on.
[7:36]Like the logo is a great example,
[7:37]but you have so many more in the book.
[7:38]And it's just like we can't obsess over every last decision
[7:43]or we run out of time.
[7:44]So as you said, time is sort of the enemy of the good
[7:47]in a way, but also making things as good
[7:51]as they possibly can be.
[7:53]And it's not worth it.
[7:54]It doesn't think the mental value you get
[7:56]from the extra 25% or 5% or 1%
[8:00]that you're working hard on something, it's not worth it.
[8:02]It's not, it really is the law of diminishing returns, right?
[8:06]I mean, that's what it is.
[8:07]It's like, yeah, I can spend another hour
[8:10]polishing and tweaking and, you know, perfecting
[8:13]until it's just right.
[8:15]But then that's opportunity cost
[8:17]because what else could you be doing with that time?
[8:19]You know, you could be spending that time
[8:21]on something that really matters to you
[8:23]on something that you really want to do.
[8:25]So yeah, I think that is definitely a big theme in the book.
[8:29]And, you know, I think the other things they'd be too
[8:32]is that I really want women to walk away
[8:35]from this book feeling that they have more control
[8:39]and agency over time than they may think they do.
[8:44]And it's a really important message in the book.
[8:46]Like there's so much that we can't control.
[8:48]And I get that.
[8:50]But there's a lot that we can.
[8:52]There's choices and decisions that we make every single day,
[8:57]all day long, that are affecting our relationship with time.
[9:01]And that's like a big thing for me.
[9:03]I really want women to feel like empowered
[9:05]that they have more control than they think they do.
[9:09]And also that time is not a battle.
[9:11]Like we're not always trying to outsmart time
[9:14]that some of our time has to be spent in this,
[9:16]you know, you talk about cronos and everything.
[9:18]You know, some of it has to be spent
[9:20]just like taking the walk outside
[9:22]and letting the ideas come to you.
[9:23]And, and allocating is such a big time
[9:27]for nothing super productive
[9:29]because if it's always really scheduled
[9:31]like your days incorporate
[9:33]where you had meetings back to back,
[9:34]like when are you gonna do your good thinking?
[9:36]I know.
[9:37]I don't know about you, but like that's,
[9:38]I feel like if I'm like stuck on something,
[9:41]I'm having like a really hard time making a decision
[9:44]or like figuring out how to move forward.
[9:46]It's always in those moments where I'm not really doing
[9:49]anything that the answer comes to me.
[9:51]You know, like it could be that I'm just like
[9:53]sitting having a cup of coffee,
[9:54]just like looking out the window or in the shower
[9:57]or, you know, on a walk.
[9:59]Like it's so.
[10:00]important to give yourself that time, you know, for your own well-being, but
[10:05]also I find that's when creativity really unlocks for me. I mean, you need the
[10:11]downtime to take in, like it can't always be outputs. It has to have you have to
[10:15]have input time. And if you don't have any downtime, then you won't get the
[10:20]things in. I mean, you risk it off basically much better in the book, but like we
[10:24]have to do that. It's it's essential and it's not a diversion. It's a
[10:28]requirement. Yeah, it is. I'm my friend Natalie Nixon. She always talks about
[10:33]how daydreaming, like she loves to daydream. Like it's just her thing and she
[10:38]always feels so much better. You know, after she does it, she has some of her
[10:43]most like creative sparks when she's daydreaming. You know, so it's whatever
[10:46]that is for you. It really is important to make time, to make time for that.
[10:52]It's not just about, you know, when you think about the Kronos and Kyros, which is
[10:56]this concept that I totally went down a rabbit hole on when I was doing a
[11:00]research for the book. You know, I've always been like such a study or like even in
[11:04]school. Like I just I love to study. And when I when I become interested in a
[11:08]topic, that's where I find myself. Like I'm in that studying mode. And like
[11:12]Kronos is really linear time. It's like the time that that that we've become
[11:18]familiar with. It's the calendar. It's the 24 hours in the day. It's the
[11:22]meetings. It's the to do's. It's all the doing. And then Kyros is really more
[11:26]about the quality of the time that we spend. It's about being present. It's
[11:31]about, you know, being in that flow state. And I think unfortunately we've
[11:37]been conditioned to believe that success comes from mastering Kronos. It's
[11:43]like all about output. You know, it's just about getting getting a lot of stuff
[11:46]done. When I really believe that success comes just as much from if not more
[11:52]from the Kyros part, you know, which is really the being. And my whole like
[11:57]goal really in the book is to share mindset shifts and techniques and tips so
[12:04]that we spend less time in Kronos and more time in Kyros. That's like my
[12:09]that's my wish. You know, that's what I'm hoping for. Well, you do have so many
[12:13]great tips. And let's just talk about email management for a minute because you
[12:17]have great solutions to that. This is like the pain of my existence is how
[12:22]to and I get so much anxiety when my email box, you know, piles up and then I
[12:27]have to say like why am I avoiding these couple emails and you have a whole
[12:30]thing about that. Like what things you're procrastinating about like why
[12:33]these things and like why can't you just do that like talk to me about
[12:37]email. Yeah. I mean, look, the biggest thing for me with the email that I
[12:40]found like in terms of where I waste my time is where I don't address an email
[12:46]right away and I let it sit there and then what happens is I end up
[12:50]rereading it and rereading it and I'm just wasting so much time with the
[12:54]rereading and then thinking about how I want to respond. And so one of the
[12:58]things that's been really helpful to me is if there's an email that for
[13:01]whatever reason it's hard like to answer it's going to require some time and
[13:07]thinking and energy that I just like don't have right now and it's not
[13:12]urgent. I actually defer the email. I use a tool called Boomerang which I use
[13:18]all day like all day long where I'll just boomerang it to come back at a time
[13:23]that I specify. So it might be like today is what Monday. I might say you know
[13:28]what come back on Thursday morning at nine o'clock and I'm gonna put like
[13:32]20 minutes on my calendar to just deal with it then. And what I really like
[13:36]about this is that then it's out of my inbox. It's out of my brain. I know that
[13:41]like I've allocated time to deal with it. So I'm not procrastinating right
[13:46]procrastinating is just like putting it off without a plan. But I have a plan
[13:50]I've scheduled time to get to it because right now is not the right time for
[13:54]me to get to it and it's I know it's gonna bother me that it's in my inbox
[13:57]because I'm just gonna keep coming back to it. So this whole like deferring for me
[14:03]has been huge like it's just been like such a huge help because otherwise it's
[14:10]that time and energy wasted of like the rereading. My whole thing is like
[14:14]never never read an email twice. Like just do something with it. Either
[14:18]archive it, respond if it's just a quick response and you can get it out of
[14:22]your inbox or delegate it. You know, is there someone else on your team who
[14:27]can handle it or maybe even the person who sent you the initial email maybe
[14:31]there's more work that they can do. Like for example, I'm sure you get this a
[14:36]lot Zibi where you know people will reach out to me asking for an
[14:40]introduction to someone in my network. I asked them if they could write a
[14:44]forwardable email so that I can just like forward the email instead of me
[14:48]having to think about you know how I'm going to ask the other person if they'd
[14:52]like to opt into this introduction. So it just do something with the email
[14:57]right away. Like don't let it sit there.
[15:00]and there's so many like tips and techniques in the book,
[15:03]but I think that's kind of what it all ladders up to.
[15:05]This idea of never reading any mail twice.
[15:08]And I love how you have auto replies.
[15:10]Someone taught me this a while ago too,
[15:12]like when I'm requesting a book or like,
[15:14]thanks, please send this to you.
[15:15]Like, do you know how many times I typed my address
[15:18]or my, like some things that I type over and over again.
[15:20]Like, you should put that as a signature option
[15:23]and then you drop down and add signature,
[15:25]but it's not really a signature.
[15:26]It's really like the auto reply that's like,
[15:29]hey, so create templates for that
[15:31]because you know, you do tend to get like the same asks
[15:36]over and over, you know, like for me,
[15:38]I really noticed that when I left corporate
[15:41]and you know, moved into startup investing,
[15:43]like I always had founders reaching out,
[15:46]asking me to review their pitch deck or to invest
[15:49]or to introduce them to investors.
[15:51]And so why not just have a templated response?
[15:54]You can always tweak it and you know, personalize it,
[15:57]but have a starting point.
[15:58]So yeah, that's something that I swear by.
[16:01]And then you extend this to all messaging
[16:03]because it's not just email,
[16:05]like anyone who's doing a lot of things,
[16:08]like you have the WhatsApp groups and then the DMs and this
[16:12]and like I find that I have to like funnel everything back
[16:16]to email or else I lose it.
[16:17]Text to, like please email me, like send me to email
[16:21]then I can like at least put it in a mailbox.
[16:23]Oh my gosh, same.
[16:25]Like that is the most important thing
[16:27]because I will lose the thread.
[16:29]And I share an example in the book
[16:31]where someone dmned me on Instagram
[16:34]about collaborating on a business input there
[16:36]that ran mentioned with no date.
[16:38]It wasn't you, Zibi.
[16:39]I would have been too.
[16:41]Oh my God.
[16:42]But it was just like it really was one of those moments
[16:45]where like I just forgot, like I forgot to get back to them.
[16:48]And then I say this in the book too.
[16:50]It's like all these different streaming platforms.
[16:53]Like where am I gonna watch that show?
[16:55]Like is it Hulu?
[16:56]Is it Apple?
[16:57]Is it Netflix?
[16:58]It's become the same thing with all these social media platforms.
[17:01]Like where was that dm?
[17:02]Was it on LinkedIn?
[17:03]Was it so same thing?
[17:05]I always say like funnel everything to email.
[17:08]Please email me at and because otherwise you're gonna lose it
[17:12]and it's the same thing with text.
[17:14]I have a lot of younger people on my team who,
[17:18]you know, when I'm onboarding them,
[17:21]it always comes up where they asked me, you know,
[17:23]can I text you with project updates?
[17:26]And I always say please email me because it's just
[17:29]we're gonna lose it.
[17:30]And I wanna make sure that we're capturing the information,
[17:32]you know, that I know exactly where it is
[17:34]and how to get back to it.
[17:36]But yeah, I think that that's a big one.
[17:38]Funnel everything back to email.
[17:40]I feel like text needs to add mailboxes.
[17:43]Like why is there no good system for managing texts?
[17:46]Could someone in that book?
[17:47]That's so true.
[17:48]I know seriously there would be some of them all the time.
[17:52]I lose them all up.
[17:53]And there's no good way to organize them, right?
[17:57]And come back to it.
[17:57]Yeah.
[17:58]I also love how you think about all your interactions
[18:02]and not just should this be 20 minutes or an hour,
[18:05]but does this need to be like 20 emails?
[18:08]Could this be a quick phone call?
[18:10]Could this be a short meeting where their updates?
[18:12]Do I need to even get updated on all these things?
[18:14]Like why am I being updated?
[18:16]Like you're just being so intentional with,
[18:19]it's not just your time.
[18:20]It's how you're interacting with the people
[18:23]who you work with or who are coming to you for advice
[18:25]or whatever and making the whole experience more efficient.
[18:29]Yeah, I mean, look, I'm a big fan of phone calls.
[18:32]I really am.
[18:33]Like I'm a big fan of, let's just hop on a call
[18:35]for five minutes and talk about this
[18:37]because so much nuance gets lost, especially over text.
[18:42]And here's the other thing.
[18:44]If you are prone to perfectionism,
[18:47]you're going to be more perfectionist when you're writing.
[18:50]So if you're writing the email, right,
[18:51]you're going to go back and you're going to read it again
[18:54]and you're going to rethink versus when you're on the phone
[18:56]and you're just talking, you know?
[18:58]And so I really, I love phone calls.
[19:01]I'm finding that I'm like in the minority on this.
[19:04]Most people don't like to pick up the phone and talk,
[19:07]but I just feel like it can be so productive
[19:10]and so efficient, you know?
[19:13]Sometimes it's better than a meeting.
[19:14]It's often better than texts.
[19:16]So yeah, just really think about what's the best form
[19:19]of communication for this specific thing.
[19:22]Don't assume that it's meeting.
[19:23]Don't assume, you know, like it could be something else.
[19:26]Sometimes I wait until I'm just getting frustrated
[19:29]with like a back and forth.
[19:30]And then I'm like, I need to call this person.
[19:32]I need to call this person.
[19:33]You're better because you're like,
[19:35]I'm going to like do this proactively
[19:38]before I go 10 emails into this.
[19:40]I try, yeah, and try.
[19:44]A moment in the book where you're dealing
[19:45]with your father who had some health issues
[19:48]and you're still getting bombarded
[19:49]with all the things you have to do.
[19:51]You wanted to throw your phone against the wall,
[19:52]which I'm sure so many people can relate to
[19:54]just having that feeling of like,
[19:55]oh my gosh, leave me alone.
[19:56]Or like, how do I deal with all these things
[19:58]when a crisis comes?
[19:59]Because.
[20:00]crisis, unfortunately, are part of life for everybody.
[20:02]Like, we think they aren't, but it's just like a day that doesn't have a major crisis
[20:06]is a gift.
[20:07]So what you do, and then you add on something really stressful on top of everything.
[20:12]Like, what systems can you have in place, and how do you manage that?
[20:15]Yeah, I know.
[20:16]It's so, so hard.
[20:18]And it's, like, I've just, I've really found that when I'm in that, like, crisis mode
[20:23]where I'm dealing something really hard, I, for with the phone, I go into, like,
[20:29]I just turn off, like, all notifications.
[20:32]And because I just can't, like, I can't deal with the dings, and I can't, like, it's
[20:37]just so distracting.
[20:38]And if I really feel like, no, I need to be present for my dad.
[20:42]Like, we're at the, we're at the, we're at the doctor's appointment.
[20:44]I need to be listening to what the doctor's saying, and then there's going to be follow
[20:48]up, and then I need to go to the pharmacy to get prescription for him, and I want to sit
[20:52]with him, and I have a cup of coffee, I want to just be with him.
[20:54]Like, I really have to, like, and I want to, and I don't even, I have to, I want to prioritize
[20:59]his, that time with him.
[21:02]And so, like, everything else is just going to have to wait.
[21:04]And it's, I think it's, it's about, it's about setting boundaries around notifications,
[21:09]but it's also just letting your key people on your team know that you're going to be
[21:13]out of pocket, you know, and I'll be checking back in, like, later tonight, you know?
[21:18]And so, as long as they know, it's, you, you just sometimes you just have to give
[21:23]yourself that time, you know, nothing else really matters.
[21:26]It's like, what's that thing?
[21:27]You have 99 problems until you only have one, you know?
[21:32]It's like sometimes like you're in that place where like, no, this is the problem.
[21:35]This is like the thing that I need to be dealing with.
[21:38]And everything else, it's just going to have to wait, and it's okay.
[21:42]Tell me about your team and how you find team management, how big your team is, like,
[21:48]how to do that, how to manage other people efficiently as well.
[21:52]Yeah.
[21:53]So I have about, right now, I have about 15 people on my team, and I would say, you
[21:59]know, nine of them are actually like bookstore focused, and then I have like a handful
[22:04]of people that are, you know, kind of helped me with the book and my writing and my speaking
[22:09]and, you know, all of that.
[22:13]And, you know, you know this, like, better than anyone.
[22:15]It's like surrounding yourself with the right people is everything.
[22:20]And like, right now, I feel really fortunate.
[22:22]I feel very supported.
[22:24]I always say, like, feeling supported is my love language, you know?
[22:27]And I feel very, very supported right now.
[22:30]I'm like, I'm somebody who I'm not afraid to ask for help when I need it.
[22:35]And because, you know, sometimes it's not just the people that are on your team, but
[22:40]it's like, I might be struggling with something that appear or a colleague might really
[22:46]be helpful with, you know, and I have like no problem picking up the phone and being like,
[22:49]hey, can you help me just, can you talk this through with me?
[22:52]Like, I'm really struggling.
[22:53]And, or even like when the kids were really little, like, knowing that I needed extra support,
[22:59]you know, so like, that's the one thing we can, you know, we all need help.
[23:03]We all need help and not being afraid to ask for help when we need it.
[23:06]Whether it's somebody on your team or it's a friend or a colleague or, you know,
[23:11]people in your life that are just there for you.
[23:15]So yeah, I think that that's something that I've always been like very open to, you know?
[23:19]And by the way, people love being helpful for the most part.
[23:23]Like, you were to ask somebody for help.
[23:24]Like, they would be so flattered and they would be so excited.
[23:28]So it's true that we always assume that it's an imposition to ask somebody for help when really,
[23:33]like, I know if people ask me, I mean, not all the time.
[23:36]A lot of times, like, I like to be helpful.
[23:38]I like feeling helpful.
[23:39]And so I want those opportunities.
[23:41]So I describe a lot of value to what we fear.
[23:45]Yeah, especially as a people pleaser, like, I get into this, but I don't want to be in
[23:50]a position.
[23:51]I don't want to be a father, you know?
[23:53]And that's the thing.
[23:53]Like, I've even, especially when I was in corporate, a big lesson for me,
[23:59]because I didn't want to be a father.
[24:01]And I wanted to just like figure it all out is I actually learned that like my manager,
[24:07]even like their, you know, their boss, like, they actually wanted to be a part of the process,
[24:12]you know, they wanted to be able to share early feedback.
[24:14]It wasn't just about like me putting together the perfect thing and then like handing it to them,
[24:19]you know, which by the way, I found to be actually like very ineffective.
[24:24]Like, because it was so much better to be checking in with them and saying, Hey,
[24:28]this is what I'm thinking.
[24:28]This is what I'm finding is this sort of, does this track with like how you're thinking
[24:33]about it?
[24:34]It's good to have those check-ins, you know, it's good to get that early feedback from people,
[24:38]even from clients, you know, like sometimes I'm doing like a big speaking engagement,
[24:43]and they're asking for something that's customized.
[24:47]I like having them be a part of the process.
[24:50]Like here's how I'm thinking about it.
[24:52]How does this sound to you?
[24:53]You're not being in a position.
[24:55]You're actually being more effective.
[24:56]Yeah.
[24:57]I loved when you sent that proposal and you were like, am I on the right?
[25:00]track with this. What do you think? I'm like that's in the right track. Why waste time?
[25:03]Why waste time? Right. Love that. So do you feel guilty about anything? Like what makes
[25:09]you feel guilty? Oh my gosh. What I mean, what doesn't? Like what's okay? So I definitely like
[25:17]over the years have had guilt over, you know, am I spending enough time with my family? Like
[25:23]there are phases, right? Where I felt like I was like so like, you know, writing the book or
[25:29]like building the business or like whatever it was. And I definitely felt guilt, you know,
[25:35]around that. And then there have been other times where I've been like so focused on family
[25:39]where it's like, oh my gosh, I'm neglecting, you know, this thing with the business that I've been
[25:44]I've been putting off. And, you know, so I think there's always or even like with my parents,
[25:49]you know, like I'm in like major caregiving mode right now, especially with my dad. And sometimes
[25:56]a week goes by and I haven't seen him. And I feel really guilty about that because, you know,
[26:04]he has these health issues. He's not getting any younger, you know, and then I start thinking
[26:09]about like how much longer do I have, you know, will he be in my life? You know, and so
[26:14]then I feel guilty about that. Like there's always there's there's always guilt in my spending.
[26:19]My niece is getting married, you know, in Italy in a couple of weeks, I'm officiating and I'm like
[26:25]so nervous. I've never officiated before. It's going to be amazing. It's going to be amazing.
[26:29]But even like, am I doing enough? Like for her, you know, like there's am I am I checking in with
[26:35]my friends that are struggling right now? Like am I checking in enough with them? Right? There's just
[26:40]there's there's always something that I'm feeling I'm not doing enough of. And then I just have
[26:45]to remind myself that I'm doing my best, you know, I'm doing my best. It's so simple, but so powerful.
[26:52]Yeah, like because all the beating up of ourselves, like who does that help? Nobody right? Nobody
[26:58]nobody. So you talk a lot about procrastination. Like I don't know why some things on my list,
[27:07]I just can't get to because I usually don't procrastinate anything. Like if someone's like,
[27:11]can you help me with this like while they're in front of me? I send the email because I know I'll
[27:14]forget. But then there are just a couple lingering things always that I'm like, wow, why will I not
[27:19]answer this email with three questions? Three questions. It'll take me two minutes. But it's
[27:23]only heard for months. Why? So how do you cut through the things? I know you have the Boomerang
[27:29]strategy, but like why do we procrastinate certain things? Why do you find that these things happen?
[27:35]And how do you just plow through that? Whatever. Well, you know, it's interesting what I found is
[27:40]sometimes there's fear associated with the doing or the responding. Like and that's what I kind
[27:48]of like I try to take a step back and say like, what am I afraid of? Like why am I not doing this?
[27:52]And you know, sometimes it's because I don't have the knowledge that I need to respond.
[27:58]And then it's like, okay, well, what can I do about that? Okay, why don't I call my friend Zibi? And
[28:03]you know, she's got the knowledge. Let me let me ask her like for her thoughts on this.
[28:08]So sometimes I find that it is fear. Like we're afraid of something and like tapping into
[28:14]what is it that you're afraid of and what's one action that you can take to kind of to deal with that
[28:20]fear. The other thing that it sometimes I think about is like if I'm feeling overwhelmed
[28:27]with something like I'm procrastinating, I'm just like feeling overwhelmed. Is I ask what's the
[28:32]bare minimum? Like what's the bare minimum that I can do? Like just to get started, you know, like
[28:36]maybe it's just writing an outline, you know, like sketching out an outline. Maybe that's all that
[28:42]that I can like do right now, but it'll create momentum. And then I'll keep going, you know.
[28:47]So like the bare minimum question I think is a good one. I think we have like such a negative
[28:53]connotation around that phrase, you know, like my friend will say, oh, my son, he's like totally
[28:58]bare minimum at school, you know, but like sometimes, especially when we're procrastinating,
[29:03]I think bare minimum can actually be really effective because they can get us started.
[29:08]Yes, I love that. Thank you. Well, Tran, oh my gosh, I only scratched the surface of the 8 million
[29:14]tips you have in here and they just are overflowing but obviously delivered with a punch so that
[29:21]even the reading of this book does not waste our time, which is great. But I found it so useful
[29:26]and I'm totally an implement a lot of these things in my daily life and we'll be thinking of you
[29:31]often as I do so. So thank you for taking your hard earned time and spending it, writing something
[29:37]that will benefit all the rest of us. Thank you. Thank you so much. That means so much. Thank you.
[29:42]Yeah, congratulations. Thank you for listening to totally booked with Zibi, formerly momstone
[29:48]after time to read books. If you loved the show, tell a friend, leave a review, follow me on
[29:53]Instagram at Zibi Owens and spread the word. Thanks so much. Oh, and buy the books.
[30:00]You