Israeli Author Noa Yedlin on Humor in Family-Based Fiction
[0:00]Welcome to Totally Booked. I'm Zibi Owens. I've interviewed more than 2,000
[0:06]authors on this show and learned endless amounts about storytelling,
[0:10]reinvention, and life itself because when you talk about books, you're really
[0:14]talking about life. So get ready to hear from today's best authors,
[0:18]the best-selling, and the not-yet-discovered. Come find your next great
[0:22]read and the story behind it. Enjoy!
[0:27]Noah Gedlin is a best-selling Israeli author acclaimed for her dark and subtle humor.
[0:32]The recipient of the Sapir Prize and Prime Minister's Prize for Hebrew
[0:36]Literary Works, she created an award-winning television series based on her novel Stockholm published
[0:42]in the U.S. in 2023. Her adaptation of her best-selling novel People Like Us will air in
[0:48]Israel in 2026. Her novel house rest, which has just been published in the U.S. and was adapted
[0:54]for successful play, in Beit, Lesson Theatre, in Tel Aviv.
[0:58]And that is the book that we talked about and which I read. And also,
[1:02]Noah Gedlin is a contributor to my anthology
[1:06]on being Jewish now reflections from authors and advocates.
[1:10]Welcome Noah. Thank you so much for coming on Totally Booked to talk about
[1:14]house arrest. Congratulations.
[1:16]Thank you for having me.
[1:18]It is my pleasure. Please tell everybody what house arrest is about.
[1:22]Well, house arrest is a story of Jerusalemite family.
[1:26]Is Jerusalemite a word?
[1:28]Yeah, it is now.
[1:30]It is now. Okay, perfect, even better.
[1:32]It's Jerusalemite family.
[1:36]It's secular family.
[1:38]It's very well-educated family.
[1:40]It's very liberal family.
[1:42]It's not your typical Jerusalem.
[1:44]I don't know.
[1:46]What people may have in their imagination and maybe we'll talk about that later on.
[1:50]It's a very secular family.
[1:54]The mother is a professor of Israeli history
[1:58]in the Hebrew University.
[2:00]And she's also the vice chairman of a very prestigious
[2:04]peace institution.
[2:06]And she writes articles about peace in
[2:10]her art magazine.
[2:12]And she's a very, very prominent figure in
[2:16]the left or the peace camp.
[2:20]The Israeli peace camp.
[2:22]She's in her 60s. She has three children, older children.
[2:26]They're in their 40s.
[2:28]And one day, as we like to say in our profession,
[2:32]you know, one bright day,
[2:34]suddenly there's an expose published in the newspaper
[2:40]saying claiming that she embezzled over three million
[2:44]articles of the money of this peace institution
[2:48]and took it right into her pockets.
[2:52]And they obviously have their proofs
[2:56]and their documents and their witnesses.
[3:00]And she obviously totally denies.
[3:03]She says it's a classic, you know,
[3:06]try and haunt the people who are for peace,
[3:10]who are in the more leftist camp.
[3:14]She blames it on that.
[3:16]And the story is told entirely from the point of view of her
[3:20]middle son.
[3:22]His name is Barak.
[3:24]He is 40 years old, recently separated.
[3:28]So he's not in the best place in his life as well.
[3:32]You know, he can't find a job in the university,
[3:36]although he has a PhD, he's not in the best place.
[3:39]And suddenly people are saying that his mother,
[3:42]he's revered wonderful mother,
[3:46]who is this super intelligent,
[3:51]well educated peace fighter.
[3:56]This woman, they say that she's a thief.
[3:59]You know, embezzled in this just a nicer and longer world
[4:03]for faith.
[4:04]And he tries to, you know,
[4:08]his entire world collapses, you could say.
[4:11]And he tries to figure out what's going on.
[4:16]Who is his mother?
[4:18]If she took the money, that means that she's no longer
[4:22]his beloved mother, maybe she didn't take it.
[4:25]And since they are three children,
[4:28]I mean, children who are 40 and 40 plus,
[4:32]they each have their own perspective and their own reaction
[4:36]to what's going on.
[4:38]One another sibling says that she definitely didn't do it.
[4:43]And it's all, you know, it's all lies.
[4:46]Another one is absolutely positive that she did do it.
[4:50]And as he points out with some, I mean,
[4:54]there is something to what he says.
[4:57]Even people who do take money,
[5:00]sometimes have children. The fact that she is your mother does not necessarily mean that
[5:06]she didn't do anything wrong. So this is the story. It's a very very, it's a story about
[5:13]family. It's about family ties. It's I think it's a it's a very family. It's very much
[5:22]a family story. But it all takes place in Israel. So it's a very Israeli story. I mean,
[5:29]against the backdrop of the Israeli elite of the Israeli lift of the Israeli
[5:34]peace camp. I would say that this is a story. Yes. Well done. I think what you
[5:42]left out is the tone of it is so funny. Like you have such a dry sense of humor
[5:50]that pervades the whole book, which I just loved. And it becomes almost
[5:56]Barack sense of humor. But even things like, I don't know, he gets very frustrated
[6:01]that the number keeps being bandied about how much she stole. I can't remember it was
[6:05]a 3.4, 3.8. And he's like, I never want to hear that number again. Like just don't say
[6:10]the number. Make up a new number. Like I just can't hear it. Like the whole number is
[6:13]stardest. I don't know. Just there are just so many, so many
[6:17]criticisms and a clever point of view that in a scenario that is a little bit, you know, destabilizing
[6:24]for everybody involved, which is funny. True. I have to tell you that I find
[6:30]humor kind of a sad thing. I know it's something I don't know how this sounds. But I
[6:38]feel that humor is actually, I'm saying that because, you know, I find out that people
[6:46]when they read my books, there is a very wide range of responses, especially as far
[6:54]the humor goes. People tell me about the same book. I left my guts out. Again, I'm not
[7:02]sure that that's an expression, but let's say it is. I left my guts out. We're making our
[7:08]language here today. And others say this is a very depressing book. This is a very dark
[7:15]book. And I feel that there is something dark about humor in general, because actually
[7:23]humor is trying to find the cracks in what seems to be whole. And now everyone sees things as
[7:31]whole. And suddenly somebody points out that there's a crack in something. And the fact that
[7:38]you haven't seen the crack yourself, it kind of, it's the surprise is the humor. But, you know,
[7:45]walking around the world and looking for cracks, not a very optimistic way of looking at things
[7:54]kind of a pessimistic one. So I don't know. I kind of got philosophical. So,
[7:59]no, that's okay. There's a part later in the book. And it says he had once read an interview
[8:05]with an author who said, only after your parents are dead, can you write the book you really want
[8:09]to write? This sentence has stayed with him. And now it suddenly seemed very important. And without
[8:13]wanting to, he felt liberated to do whatever grabbed him to write any book. And his parents hadn't
[8:18]even actually died. You know, it's really funny that you mentioned this part. And that you quoted
[8:27]this quote, because this is one of my favorite quotes in the book. Actually, I think that there is
[8:34]something to it. I think that, I mean, my parents are alive. And I hope they stay alive for a very,
[8:43]very long time. But I can imagine that there is, and I think that this is actually what the book is
[8:51]about. It's about being a child of someone. It's not actually about politics and about
[8:59]measurement. And because if it were about these things, then it wouldn't interest anybody.
[9:05]You know, how many people do you know whose parents were accused even of a measurement?
[9:10]I guess not very many. Even here in Israel, I don't know that many people.
[9:17]But I think that basically it's about this position of being the child of someone. And this is
[9:22]something that we all know very well. Because we are all children of someone either dead or alive
[9:28]or a good parent or a bad parent. But we're all someone's children. You know that when I go to a restaurant
[9:36]with my mother today at my age, I never bring my wallet. Because when I'm with her, I'm the child.
[9:47]I'm not, I'm not a grown-up. And I guess this, this stays this and this stays this way
[9:54]until your parents are gone. And then you are forced to become the grown-up. There is no-
[10:00]hiding from that there is no and I can imagine that with the grief and with this
[10:07]new position which I'm sure is very complicated comes some degree of freedom
[10:14]because suddenly you are the grown-up and no one is looking over your
[10:19]shoulder there is no one to please there is no I mean there's always people to
[10:24]please but there is no this person that you need to please and and yeah I
[10:32]I'm very happy that you chose this uh this line yeah I loved it I feel like I feel like
[10:39]the kids are all seeing Elly Cheva as a person for the first time and what happens when
[10:46]you don't necessarily approve of every single thing the person does and yet you have an ending
[10:51]love how do you square those two things and I think that is so universal right we all
[10:56]maybe it's not embezzlement but what happens when someone you love to something you don't love
[11:01]and how do you deal with that so it's very relatable and universal and it has all the stages of like
[11:08]denial and you know except you know so it's we get to really be in it as they and also just like
[11:16]the funny car rides they take together you know the siblings and you know because you still have to
[11:20]like do your life when things when big things happen like there's still the everyday stuff and
[11:26]I feel like you interweave all of that very well is also you know there's this uh this question
[11:33]of how much we know our parents yeah and also how much do we really want to know our parents
[11:41]and these are two questions and I think they're they are some of the most fascinating questions
[11:48]they are you know I think no one wants their mother to start writing erotic poetry
[11:57]you don't want to come to the evening for your mother's erotic
[12:03]right yes oh no need for that it's not necessary but there are other things you know there
[12:11]and the question of what do you know about your parents and how much do you really want to know
[12:18]I think it in the heart of this novel totally wait no I can you take me back how did you become
[12:26]an author like you are born in Israel give give me like your quick life story and how you became
[12:31]an author so I was born in Israel born and raised in Israel and I always love to write
[12:40]when I was in high school I did this you know me and a couple of friends were you managed to
[12:45]convince this very prominent and respectable editor of a national newspaper to let us do this you
[12:56]know youth supplement which was very wild and very unusual and but it was only when I was when I
[13:07]went to university I started in Jerusalem I was born in Tel Aviv but I've kind of you know
[13:15]I kind of like someone who was born as a man and then became a woman I'm I'm in Jerusalem
[13:25]ite who was accidentally born in the body I love Jerusalem wait for for people who aren't as familiar
[13:34]with the ins and outs of different places within Israel what does that mean like what does it mean
[13:41]to be a television Vivian versus is Jerusalemite what does it mean everything
[13:47]Tel Aviv is you know Tel Aviv is the New York Tel Aviv is where everything happens
[13:52]it's the nightclubs and the cafes and the restaurants and and it doesn't get any opener
[14:00]than Tel Aviv I think it's time and time again it's mentioned in the list of the friendliest cities
[14:07]for gay people in the world and there's the sea and everyone walks around you know without a
[14:13]shirt because you're on your way to the sea but I mean for me but my opinion here is very very unusual
[14:22]most secular people prefer Tel Aviv this is very unusual for someone like me to prefer Jerusalem
[14:30]Jerusalem first of all is in many parts it's a very religious city there are still some secular
[14:38]people there mostly people who are from academia because there's university there there's also
[14:46]hospitals there so there's doctors and but there's less and less of those Jerusalem is a very very
[14:54]hard place it's a very difficult place all the Israeli conflict with
[15:00]whatever you want for like streams to Jerusalem, the Israeli, the Israeli
[15:07]Palestinian conflict, it's Jerusalem, the secular religious conflict. All the
[15:14]conflict, so it's a very difficult city. There's something very harsh about it,
[15:20]but I'm always, I've always been attracted to the harsh and to the difficult.
[15:26]I mean something, I guess I have to figure out on a couch, but this is me. And I
[15:34]love old stuff, old things, Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thousands of years old, I
[15:41]love old stuff, I love cold weather, I don't like the sea, I'm a weirdo. So yeah, so I
[15:52]went to Jerusalem to study there. I had my masters degree there in the
[15:57]university. And while I was studying in the university, I started working for a
[16:03]very, very popular local newspaper in Jerusalem. And I wrote columns and I
[16:10]wrote, I had, they let me go wild, which I love. And then I started my, my
[16:17]career as a journalist, first in the local journalism and then in the
[16:22]national journalism. And while I was writing for a journal for an Israeli newspaper,
[16:31]I started working on a novel. Just for the fun of it, I never dreamed of becoming
[16:36]a writer. You know, it's, I don't know how you feel about it, but you know,
[16:41]saying you're a writer, it's something, it's, it's unknown is writer, friends
[16:47]and is a writer. But so I never thought about it. I just started, you know,
[16:53]scribbling and just working on something. And it worked for, and I was very
[17:01]surprised to find out that not only that it worked, once I discovered it, there
[17:10]was no going back. I just, I couldn't believe that I was wasting my words on a
[17:17]newspaper when this profession actually exists, that you wake up in the
[17:23]morning and you're right and you invent stories and you, you know, build your
[17:30]characters. And wow, this is, it's true that you don't really make money out of
[17:35]this profession, but at least you, yeah, at least you have fun. There's always the hope.
[17:43]There's always the hope, yeah. This is Israel. Maybe the United States, you know, I see
[17:52]all these, you know, TV series about writers and they're all, you know, doing
[17:59]lines and pen houses and so maybe, maybe I'm not leaving the right life, you know.
[18:06]I mean, I don't know those people so I would like to see for the both of us, maybe.
[18:12]Okay, so then when it came to writing this particular book, where did the
[18:18]gem, germ of the idea come from? A few years ago, there was an
[18:24]Israeli president called Moshikatov who was accused of rape. It sounds, I mean, when
[18:35]I say it out loud, I mean, I know this story so well because I lived through it, but still,
[18:41]when you say it out loud, it still sounds, you know, it sounds like a bad manuscript,
[18:49]but it's the truth. He was accused of harassing his women who worked for him and of rape.
[19:01]And this was obviously a huge story. He eventually was convicted and
[19:10]but this was a huge story and it was covered obviously over the news and everyone was talking
[19:17]about it. And I remember watching him when the cameras were, you know, chasing him outside his
[19:25]house when he was coming back from court or leaving the house and he was always accompanied by his
[19:32]wife. He was not very young. They were married already for dozens of years. And I think that
[19:40]I don't think I'm very special by wondering. I think that you can't, you couldn't watch this
[19:47]couple without asking yourself this question. What the hell does goes through her mind? Does she
[19:58]know that this is absolutely...
[20:00]true and she actually it's no surprise to her because you know this person and
[20:06]she's been living with him for so long or is this is she absolutely positive that he didn't do
[20:13]it what is going on in her mind and then I thought you know when your spouse is accused of
[20:22]something horrible you can divorce you can divorce this person you can distant yourself from them
[20:31]you can act as if it kind of never ever happened when it's someone that shares your blood
[20:40]if your mother does something horrible or a father you can not talk to them ever again
[20:47]but their blood still runs through yours that this is something I think it's very different
[20:55]and then I thought what what happens when it's someone very close to you and I initially thought
[21:02]of a father it's more classic than father to embezzle but there were two reasons why I chose
[21:12]the mother one was that I feel that we've seen enough and our share of embezzling fathers
[21:21]we've seen it we've seen it in TV and in movies and that's one reason and the other is I felt that
[21:29]I mean maybe it sounds I don't know how it sounds but I felt that there is something
[21:34]feministic about choosing her because if women can do everything they can also do bad things
[21:45]it's their prerogative I mean they they will have to pay the price maybe but they are entitled
[21:54]of doing bad things in movies and books and in real life if they are willing to pay the price
[22:04]and I thought it's much more interesting to to put a mother in this position much more
[22:13]emotional than then making it all about a father so this was the reason and then was the
[22:23]the question the next question was what is going what is her crime going to be
[22:30]because there is many kinds of crimes there is no lack of crimes right from and I thought of
[22:38]you know the most horrific things really I thought of you know harvesting kidneys I mean I thought
[22:47]of really the most horrible things you can imagine and at a certain point I realized
[22:54]that it has to be about money because money I think money is a super interesting subject
[23:03]money is like tofu it doesn't have any list of its own but you know if you have like a $100
[23:12]bill in your head this bill has no emotional value but once you give this bill to one of your children
[23:20]and not to the other then it becomes charged with story and with conflict and with emotion
[23:29]so money gets the flavor of the story and the people and the emotions and the conflicts that surround
[23:36]I love that oh my gosh I feel like this comes out a lot also when when Brock is reading the article
[23:43]and his own apartment that he has been you know given slash lent you know by his mom comes into it
[23:49]and he's like wait wait am I an accomplice like what does that do to me like taking the money anyway
[23:56]but I find that absolutely fascinating and Noah also I just wanted to say thank you for contributing
[24:01]to I'm being Jewish now back you know two years ago and when I asked so thank you for that
[24:07]thank you for for asking me for to participate that was very very happy to do it I'm very happy
[24:15]I'm still happy this is an amazing community and I'm very very honored and happy to be part of
[24:23]it oh oh you're a beautiful writer and you have such a great observational way of looking at
[24:31]the world and dissecting relationships and I think you would be a very fun friend to have
[24:39]I will look you up when I'm in New York please do please do all right house arrest thank you
[24:44]so much thank you so much for having me okay bye thank you for listening to totally bucked with
[24:51]zibi formerly momstone have time to read books if you loved the show tell a friend leave a review
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