Jane Leeves: A Look Behind the Scenes of Hit Sitcom Frasier
[0:00]Welcome to Totally Booked.
[0:02]I'm Zibi Owens.
[0:04]I've interviewed more than 2,000 authors on this show and learned endless amounts about
[0:09]storytelling, reinvention, and life itself because when you talk about books, you're
[0:13]really talking about life.
[0:15]So get ready to hear from today's best authors, the best-selling and the not yet discovered.
[0:20]Come find your next great read and the story behind it.
[0:24]Enjoy.
[0:27]Last from the past, who has watched Frasier?
[0:31]I loved watching Frasier and, of course, cheers, and so when I had the opportunity to interview
[0:36]Jane Leaves, who plays Daphne on Frasier, I was like 100%, I have to talk to her because
[0:42]I've always been so charmed by her on-screen and was really curious about her life behind
[0:47]the camera.
[0:48]Jane Leaves is the author of Daphne and me, my life on Frasier, and a bit more, which, by the
[0:54]way, her daughter helped her write and wrote the forward and all of that, and her daughter
[0:58]goes by busy, which I think is a nice counterbalance to Zibi.
[1:01]So there you go.
[1:02]Jane Elizabeth Leaves was born in Ilford Essex, England.
[1:06]She had her start as a member of the Hills Angels on the Benny Hill Show, which she writes
[1:10]about them in the book.
[1:11]Then appeared as a guest star in episodes of popular sitcoms, such as Seinfeld, Who's
[1:15]the Bossed, and Blossom?
[1:17]Jane landed a recurring role on Murphy Brown as Audrey Cone.
[1:21]In addition to Frasier, she has starred in the Emmy Award-winning TV-land series Hot
[1:25]in Cleveland and Grace the World of Cedar by starring a Sally Bowles in Cabaret on Broadway.
[1:30]Jane also lent her voice to various animated TV series characters, including in The Penguins
[1:36]of Madagascar, Phineas and Ferb, and The Simpsons, as well as the major motion picture,
[1:42]James, and the Giant Peach.
[1:43]In 2018, she joined the Fox Medical Drama The Resident.
[1:47]Jane lives in Malibu, California with her husband, Marshall, COBEN, with whom she has
[1:53]two children, and whose marriage we learn all about in the book.
[1:56]Welcome, Jane.
[1:57]Thank you so much for coming on totally booked to discuss your book, Daphne, and me
[2:01]congratulations.
[2:02]Thank you.
[2:03]It's one of the hardest things I've ever done, I have to say.
[2:06]Okay, why?
[2:07]Discuss.
[2:08]Well, because I'm so intimidated talking about myself as an author.
[2:13]No, I didn't finish high school, and when this was first sort of bought to my doorstep,
[2:19]they said, you know, we're interested in you writing a book about your experience on
[2:22]Fraser, I was like, oh no, no, I don't think so.
[2:25]I'm not a writer.
[2:27]And they said to me, well, we can find someone to help you.
[2:31]And I thought, no, I'm such a private person.
[2:33]I didn't want anyone, you know, sort of invading my space and listening to my stories because
[2:38]I couldn't trust that it would be my voice.
[2:40]So I wrote in my daughter, well, she wrote me, and actually she was the one, she was
[2:46]one of my husband who convinced me to actually do this, and it was great.
[2:50]And your daughter, her nickname is busy, which I love.
[2:53]I feel like busy and zippy, I don't know, maybe we could do something else.
[2:57]What?
[2:58]Take the show on the road, something, maybe podcast.
[3:03]But I loved her forward for your book, and I think it really set the tone so well for
[3:07]what was to come.
[3:09]The type of person you are that you have so much humility and this imposter syndrome
[3:14]about writing the book and why we would even want to read the book.
[3:18]And all throughout the book, you were kind of dropping little lines.
[3:21]Like you were almost self-consciously telling stories.
[3:24]Like as if we weren't curious, but people aren't curious, you know, the way we're
[3:29]curious about any lives, particularly people that we feel like we know a little bit.
[3:34]I think I realized that I asked several people to read the book before, you know, and
[3:38]they were fascinated by different areas of it, depending on who they were.
[3:42]I did write about a week in the life of making the show, and I thought that would be boring,
[3:47]but a young woman who is looking to go into that side of the business was just fascinated
[3:53]by that.
[3:54]That whole thing about motherhood as well.
[3:55]Some people really connect with that about becoming a first-time mom and juggling that
[4:02]with working and the guilt and the postpartum and all of that mixed in together.
[4:08]So I think it speaks to many different people about different things, you know.
[4:12]And I love when you were talking about the week in the life of the show, how you would
[4:16]get your scripts.
[4:17]I think you said on a Wednesday and that you would go home and read it and to end like
[4:20]you couldn't wait to see what would happen to the characters.
[4:23]I loved that.
[4:24]Yeah, we finished an episode on a Tuesday night.
[4:26]They'd come and hand us a script as we were leaving and I had to read it before I went
[4:30]to bed.
[4:32]I had to read it because we never really knew where we were going next or sometimes we
[4:38]had a clue they'd sort of map out a story for the year, but most of the time we really
[4:43]didn't know.
[4:44]So it's so much fun.
[4:45]It's like a gift every Wednesday.
[4:47]Well, the first thing that I found really interesting was the resilience it takes to withstand
[4:53]rejection and keep pursuing a dream when it is such a tough one to accomplish.
[4:59]Right, like you did.
[5:00]give up going to auditions, doing all these things and not that you necessarily wanted to do this
[5:04]from day one, but once you had this be in your bonnet, like you could have said, okay, I've tried
[5:09]enough, but this little role and this and this and grew and grew, like it takes a lot of
[5:15]inner strength. And I think a lot of people are looking to gain that kind of strength.
[5:19]Why can't they give up? So what do you think it was about yours? Was it just luck and timing?
[5:24]I think luck and timing plays a big part in it, but I also think you have to have a certain
[5:31]degree of this cannot fail. I have nothing to fall back on. I didn't go to college. I can't do
[5:37]anything else. And I think providing yourself with a safety net, you know, you're like, well, I
[5:44]can always do that. Well, I can always do that. Don't do that because this is such a hard business
[5:51]and unless you go into it saying, I have to make it, I will make it, this is going to be
[5:56]my career, then go and do the other thing. You know, I really think that you have to have that
[6:01]self-belief in this business. And it's I must have had self-belief in there somewhere, you know,
[6:07]because I talk all the time about imposter syndrome, you know, and you get the job and you go,
[6:10]oh no, they're going to discover I have no idea what I'm doing. But I mean, there must have been
[6:16]something, you know, some interest rate in there to pull me through that. And I want to, you know,
[6:22]I always say to them, go for it or don't, but don't half, you know, because you will never make it.
[6:29]It's true. The passion and the wanting, you can tell, right? Not desperation, but the passion,
[6:36]the difference. The passion. Well, I love that you took us behind the scenes of all of that
[6:42]and the show and working with Kelsey Grammar and like just all your little anecdotes and the photos.
[6:47]And that was really fun to see as someone who watched the show like super fun. But to your point,
[6:53]like I really loved your parts about having a baby. And even the fact that at the time they
[6:59]wrote that in as like a weight gain thing that you feel would probably be gay, you know, not allowed
[7:05]on TV today. Do you want to talk about that a little bit? Yeah, you know, it's one of those things
[7:09]you look back on. And at the time there was some relief because I was, our stage was so open.
[7:16]It wasn't like a bar or cheers or something where you could hide and stand behind. It was a very
[7:21]open set. And they'd have me hold a laundry basket or a dish towel. And it just became clear,
[7:27]this was not a baby who was hiding. This was a big baby. So one of the producers came up to me
[7:33]one day and said, could we just give you a weight problem? And I, at the time I was like, oh yes,
[7:38]I have the freedom to walk around again and act, you know, but looking back on it, you know,
[7:44]it wasn't the best thing. Shall we say, I mean, this sort of fat shaming. But it seemed okay.
[7:50]Then I mean, because women's bodies were discussed openly on TV, you know, well, she's
[7:56]too chubby to be wearing that dress. Well, she's too thin. And it was just part of the culture back then,
[8:02]you know, it was just all so wrong. And it masked itself as journalism, you know, it's bullying.
[8:09]It really was bullying. And I feel some shame being a part of that, you know, I do think that we
[8:15]could have handled it in a different way. Maybe I could have been pregnant, you know,
[8:20]Niles and Daphne had just gotten together. And I think they didn't want to sort of send them down
[8:26]that road too quickly, but that could have been interesting. They're not married, they're together,
[8:33]they have a child, you know, so there were other ways I think it could have been dealt with.
[8:37]Yeah, and I'm responsible for going along with it as well, which is, you know, I don't feel great
[8:42]about. Wow. I know you are still thinking about it, but I bet other people are not thinking
[8:48]about it as much, right? When they think about you in the show, I mean, that is not what comes up.
[8:53]And then you did have your second child on the show as well. And they that was written it,
[8:57]so you've redeemed yourself like what? Two years later. Yes. And then I did have my child and then
[9:03]I had to go back to work and put on a pregnancy pad because I had to be pregnant till the end of the
[9:07]show. So yeah, difficult times. The things we juggle as women, right? Yes, exactly. Oh my gosh. I was also
[9:14]incredibly moved by the part about 9-11 and the loss that all of you suffered on the set and
[9:23]how you came together in the aftermath, how you all processed that and you write about it in
[9:28]depth and it was really beautiful and sad and heartbreaking. And I think for people who didn't know
[9:34]anybody made a historical event, perhaps the younger people even reading, you know, feel quite
[9:39]personal and understandable. Can you talk a little about what happened and everything?
[9:44]Yeah, well, I just remember the magnitude of what was going on that day. You know, I woke up that
[9:50]morning. I didn't wake up actually. I was resting because I had to film the show that evening.
[9:54]And all of a sudden, the phone rang and my mother-in-law used to accompany me to work when we
[10:00]working and take care of the baby.
[10:01]Call me and said, I don't think we'll be going
[10:03]to work today, turn on the TV.
[10:04]And I was like, I said, I'll up and ran to find my husband.
[10:07]He was holding our baby daughter at the time.
[10:10]And there was just this destruction on the TV.
[10:14]And he told me that terrorists had blown planes
[10:17]into the World Trade Center.
[10:18]And we just, I mean, the magnitude
[10:22]of what was going on was so horrific.
[10:25]I think that, you know, you don't know what to do.
[10:28]Even though we were in Los Angeles,
[10:30]and this was going on in New York and other places
[10:32]around the country, you don't know what was going on
[10:36]was the craziest thing.
[10:37]And my response was to go to the grocery store
[10:40]for some reason.
[10:41]Because I thought, well, I don't know what's going on.
[10:43]I'd better stock up.
[10:44]It was just this weird survival mode.
[10:47]And my husband said to me, before I left,
[10:51]I think you should be ready to know somebody
[10:54]because so many people have lost their lives.
[10:56]And I thought, it's a bit awkward, you know?
[10:58]But anyway, when I got back from the grocery store,
[11:00]he was standing in the doorway.
[11:02]And I could tell he had some bad news.
[11:05]And he told me that our dear creator
[11:07]and executive producer, David Angel,
[11:09]and his wife Lynn Angel, had been in the first plane
[11:12]that hit the towers.
[11:13]And it was just like, I mean, the magnitude of that day,
[11:18]the horror of it, the whole country sort of came together
[11:21]and just stopped, you know?
[11:23]And then for it to have a personal story to it
[11:27]was just, it's a feeling that I've never had in my life.
[11:32]It was just this massive, massive weight,
[11:35]like someone just crushed me to the ground.
[11:38]Yeah, and the sort of work or anything just left.
[11:43]You know, we didn't know what to do.
[11:44]And of course, none of us returned to work
[11:46]for about three weeks, I think it was.
[11:49]And the thought of actually going back and doing comedy,
[11:53]it was how are we going to do this?
[11:55]And I remember we were all still grieving.
[11:58]And David, it was weird to walk on to a set
[12:00]that was also lively and people laughing and joking.
[12:04]And we just sort of all crept onto the stage
[12:05]and not knowing how to proceed.
[12:08]And David had pierced, read us a letter
[12:12]that a friend of his had written to him about, you know,
[12:15]at the time it was, there was nothing on TV,
[12:17]but wall to wall coverage of this.
[12:18]And we were all just consumed with it.
[12:21]And he said his friend found himself,
[12:23]once they started airing regular TV again,
[12:26]watching an episode of Frasier.
[12:28]And you found himself laughing,
[12:30]something you thought, you know, it didn't,
[12:33]oh, I'm laughing again, you know.
[12:35]And it, the comfort that gave him,
[12:39]that we can go on, we can laugh again.
[12:42]And it was just such a beautiful way to get us back into it.
[12:46]But realizing that a man responsible
[12:49]for making so many people laugh who lost his life, you know,
[12:53]was still making us laugh.
[12:55]And it was, it was very profound.
[12:57]And as I say in book, television comedies at that time
[13:00]saw a huge uptick in viewership
[13:02]because I think people just wanted to laugh,
[13:04]they wanted to escape a trauma and the horror.
[13:08]And laughing really does make you feel better, you know.
[13:12]Yeah, it was crushing.
[13:14]I'm sorry for that whole experience.
[13:15]And you wrote about it really beautifully
[13:17]and including how Lin's seat watching you,
[13:20]you kept empty from that on.
[13:21]Oh my gosh.
[13:23]Yeah, I mean, yeah, when we looked up and saw that,
[13:27]you know, I think they put a red rose on it.
[13:30]And when we looked up and saw that,
[13:32]it was just, you know, it was tough.
[13:34]But, you know, it's like we all came together
[13:37]and got through it together.
[13:39]Well, it sounds like your green room
[13:41]was like such a therapeutic comforting space.
[13:45]Amazing, yeah.
[13:46]Oh my gosh, all the things you all went through.
[13:48]And I guess really any group of people
[13:50]thrown together for almost a decade
[13:53]or would, you know, 11 years, sorry, 11 years.
[13:56]I was gonna say that,
[13:57]but then I thought there was something
[13:57]that the eight years, anyway, it doesn't matter.
[13:59]Throwing together for 11 years, things are gonna happen.
[14:02]Right, like nobody can escape bad things for 11 years.
[14:06]While losing David and Lin, Perry lost her mother
[14:09]during that time, David lost both his parents.
[14:12]Perry and I got married.
[14:14]I had children.
[14:15]We went through it as a group, you know.
[14:18]We all went through that together.
[14:19]Because as I say, we had terrible, tiny little dressing rooms.
[14:24]But at the end of where they were,
[14:26]it was this little room,
[14:27]which is a green room in theater and everybody's always
[14:30]a green room where actors, it's not green, by the way.
[14:33]But actors go and sort of relax and maybe learn their lines.
[14:36]But our green room, because our dressing rooms were so tiny,
[14:39]we were all forced into that green room.
[14:42]And every, we would stay there for hours after rehearsal,
[14:46]after the, you know, after, at the end of the day,
[14:49]just talking through stuff like this, you know,
[14:51]and our life experiences.
[14:54]And I swear knowing those people made me a better person,
[14:57]you know, and having that space too.
[15:00]we kept each other in check. There were no egos and it was a really lovely, lovely space and
[15:06]what was so great was we'd have these fabulous guest stars, everyone from James Earl Jones to
[15:13]Elvis Costello, Laura Lenny, Buzz Aldrin, Bill Gates, people and they would, they'd have trailers
[15:20]outside fancy trailers for them to sit in but they'd come and sit in the green room with us because
[15:24]it just it just invited this sort of conversation and connection and I think it also helped
[15:30]them to become familiar with us and the show so it was a wonderful space to learn about people
[15:37]and life and I always think now that we have these dreadful things that weren't so prevalent
[15:42]back then and we'd have all been sitting there like this you know and that on our phones and
[15:48]so I'm so grateful that I had that experience. I feel like you need to start a podcast or a new
[15:54]show just called green room and just take it from there you know keep those connections going let
[15:59]the rest of us peek in and learn I don't know I feel like that. I say in the book I think everyone
[16:03]should have a green room in their life. Yes go with friends and talk about work and life and
[16:09]and everything it's really valuable yeah that's really beautiful. Well you write a lot in the book
[16:16]about finding love and sustaining love and being married in this crazy industry and you know
[16:22]maintaining relationships and I'm wondering how in the face of everything you've stayed in touch
[16:27]with your cast mates and also like kept your wife dumb motherhood all of that at the same time
[16:34]like how is everything now? Oh it's fantastic both my kids my brilliant daughter who helped me
[16:40]write this really helped me find the voice for this book. She lives in Brooklyn now and my son is
[16:46]in college in Boston so we're empty nesters which is tough it's tough yeah but my husband and I now
[16:54]have sort of a life together which is lovely and we've we've able to visit them a lot and that's
[17:00]wonderful. My oldest kids are twins they just went to college a couple weeks ago so well
[17:06]it's tough right? It's dope it really is. Oh my gosh so aside from the book and everything where
[17:14]and the work you're still doing like what are you what are you hoping for this chapter of your life?
[17:18]Gosh I'm just waiting for that next right thing to come along I've been so so blessed I did a
[17:25]wonderful show with Betty White there are six seasons holding Cleveland and I did a medical
[17:30]drama for five seasons so I've had this sort of varied career and I'm just waiting for that
[17:36]next surprise something to surprise myself but always comedy is in the back of my mind I love comedy
[17:43]it's such a great thing to be able to go to work and laugh all the time it really is good for your
[17:49]health. Is there something in your career or maybe your personal life that you find yourself
[17:55]regretting particularly more now? No no I don't think so I mean I did when the kids were very little
[18:05]I turned down a few things because it would mean me leaving they live in Los Angeles and I'd
[18:10]have to go somewhere else and that I don't regret at all because the times spent with them when
[18:16]they're that young you'll never get that back so no I don't I really don't think there is I mean
[18:22]I think I lost a little bit of ambition after having kids because that just becomes the focus
[18:26]of your life so maybe I need to find that again maybe I you know need to find a little more
[18:32]ambition in myself now but it's it's hard as you get older because you get more scared of things
[18:37]I think you know when you're young you sort of throw yourself at everything because you don't know
[18:42]as much as you do when you get older so yeah maybe to find that brave girl again now my job as
[18:48]a mummy seems to be what is never over is it I love that who do you most want to read your book
[18:58]I think anyone anyone pursuing a dream anyone just thinking something is you know they want
[19:09]something so badly but they don't see a way to it you'll find a way I think anyone with a dream
[19:15]and anyone who doubts themselves as well because I doubt it myself so much but I still kept going
[19:22]and I think that applies in so many areas of life you know that you can if you focus
[19:28]and follow that path reach your goals I love that look at this I'm like feeling so inspired
[19:34]Jane thank you so much thank you for coming on thank you for your lovely book and congrats to
[19:39]your daughter on her part in it as well and congratulations thanks for being so open thank you so
[19:45]much to be lovely talking to you you too okay thank you for listening to totally booked with
[19:52]Zibi formerly momstone have time to read books if you loved the show tell a friend leave a review follow me on
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[20:00]at Zibi Owens and spread the word. Thanks so much. Oh, and buy the books.