Tony Shalhoub & Josie Adams on We Thought They'd Never Leave, 50 Years of Family Reunions, and Preserving Recipes and Traditions
[0:00]Welcome to Totally Booked. I'm Zibi Owens. I've interviewed more than 2,000
[0:06]authors on this show and learned endless amounts about storytelling,
[0:10]reinvention, and life itself. Because when you talk about books, you're really
[0:14]talking about life. So get ready to hear from today's best authors,
[0:18]the best-selling, and the not yet discovered. Come find your next great
[0:22]read and the story behind it. Enjoy.
[0:27]Welcome to Totally Booked. Thank you so much for coming. Tony Shaloo,
[0:30]and Josie Adams. Welcome. Thank you. Thanks for having us. I'll read a
[0:34]little bit about you for those who don't know. Tony Shaloo is an award-winning
[0:38]actor, best known for his work in Monk, Big Knight, the marvelous,
[0:42]Mrs. Maisel, Wings, and the bands visit. Over a career spanning more
[0:46]than 40 years, he has received numerous honors, including Emmy, Tony, Golden Globe,
[0:50]and actor awards and has brought countless memorable characters to life on
[0:54]stage and screen. We thought they'd never leave. It's his first book.
[0:58]Josie Adams is a writer, producer, and the founder of House of
[1:02]Water, a production company focused on writing and development across film,
[1:06]television, books, audio, and theater. Adopted at birth from Omaha,
[1:10]Nebraska. She was raised in Los Angeles and now lives in New Jersey with her husband
[1:14]and two children. Welcome to Vatoya. Thanks. Great to be here.
[1:18]It's pretty wild to be in this room that I've seen so many times.
[1:22]I love Josie, how old are your kids? Tucker is six and a half
[1:26]and Tessa is three and a half. So cute. I'm like, good ages. Yeah, really fun.
[1:32]Okay, we thought they'd never leave musings on food and family.
[1:36]Tell everybody a little bit about the book and what inspired you to collaborate on it.
[1:40]Well, I love food and I love my family.
[1:44]And we wanted to muse on it.
[1:46]But so I went to culinary school.
[1:50]And I mean, I really am a big foodie. I love cooking.
[1:54]I love eating. I love reading about food.
[1:56]I'm one of these people that loves to actually read a cookbook from beginning to end.
[2:02]And I've had this idea of wanting to do a family cookbook of collecting all of
[2:06]our family recipes before it was too late. And I asked my dad if he might want to work on it with me
[2:12]because I needed him for his stories.
[2:15]And I thought it would be such a nice family project to do together.
[2:19]We wrote the proposal for the cookbook.
[2:22]And we were so lucky that we had a couple publishers that were interested.
[2:26]But ultimately we ended up going with Simon and Schuster.
[2:29]Pam Cannon was our editor.
[2:31]And she said, listen, we love. She's so amazing.
[2:35]Shout out to Pam.
[2:36]And the whole team at Simon and Schuster has been unbelievable.
[2:40]We're so lucky.
[2:42]But they said we love the cookbook.
[2:45]But we want more stories.
[2:49]And we love the introduction you guys wrote.
[2:52]And do you think would your dad and you be open to doing more of Tony's family stories?
[2:58]So it turned in.
[2:59]It went from a conventional cookbook of, let's say, 100 recipes to what they call a culinary narrative.
[3:06]That was a new term to me.
[3:08]The whole book, the book world is new to me.
[3:11]So what that meant was more stories, fewer recipes.
[3:15]Although the 20 recipes that we do have in it, that's a book of art,
[3:19]are some Joseph's and my favorites that come out of family tradition,
[3:24]but also a family reunion, which is the sort of centerpiece of the book.
[3:29]My family's been gathering together for a week, every summer,
[3:34]like in Wisconsin, where I grew up.
[3:37]And it's been going on for over 50 years.
[3:40]And the numbers just keep increasing and increasing.
[3:44]But it's not an easy thing to get all these people to one place
[3:50]at one time for seven days.
[3:52]But we do it every year and we don't cater it.
[3:55]The logistics are insane.
[3:57]But we manage to pull it off every year.
[4:01]And so this book is kind of an homage to the reunion, to my parents,
[4:06]to my siblings, because I'm from this very large family.
[4:10]And Joseph was still instrumental in helping me to sort of see it to visualize it.
[4:16]It was interesting because it was kind of a role with personal happening,
[4:21]where she became the parent in a way.
[4:24]And I required a lot of hand holding.
[4:28]No comment.
[4:30]Joseph is a writer and I'm not.
[4:33]But we're really, really proud of the book.
[4:35]No.
[4:36]Well, you detail, you go into quite a bit of detail about how you organize the cooking
[4:42]and the logistics.
[4:43]And one of the things that I love is that you mix up the nieces and nephews
[4:47]and grandparents, and that everybody has their own sort of team.
[4:49]But you have to work across families.
[4:51]Well, I love that.
[4:53]Yeah, I mean, that's the whole point of this reunion is we have such a big family.
[4:57]It's impossible to stay connected.
[5:00]and up to date all throughout the year, although my dad just talked with his siblings every
[5:04]single day, almost every single one of them. That's amazing. That's like a whole day right there.
[5:08]Yeah. It is fun. Yeah, seriously. So when we get together at the reunion,
[5:14]it's not just about seeing your own nuclear family. It's about reconnecting with cousins that
[5:23]you haven't seen over the year. It's about spending time with the older generations and the
[5:28]younger generations. So we're very mindful of mixing it all up so that everybody can get
[5:33]together. I mean, it would be one thing and definitely book worthy in and of itself to organize
[5:38]this sort of massive family reunion, do's and don'ts and all that. But what is particularly moving
[5:44]about this story is why you are all gathering like this and the family history that you bring to
[5:49]the table, how the unlikely success of the whole family, everybody coming on both sides is really
[5:56]staggering and amazing. Can you talk about that a little bit? It is. It is. It is amazing. Even
[6:01]we're impressed. Well, it all started because of my parents were when my older siblings, I'm the
[6:09]second. When my older siblings were becoming adults and going off to college, going off to jobs
[6:16]or marriages or whatever, whatever they were doing, my parents started to get that sense of like,
[6:21]well, this, you know, the splintering. And so they weren't, it wasn't possible to keep everybody
[6:27]local all the time, although that was my father's dream, but it was possible to have us reconnect
[6:34]at least once a year. And so that's how this tradition got started. And I guess even, you know,
[6:40]when it began, I don't know that we were really thinking, well, this is something that's going
[6:46]to continue. You just, you know, you just take it one day at that one year at a time. But we liked it.
[6:54]And we understood the value of it. And so we continued at the next year and the next then that's
[6:58]been, as I said, been going on for over half a century. And it's, you know, I talk about it in the
[7:04]book, Josie. And I kind of have discussed this at length, you know, it's, it's a reunion,
[7:11]a yearly reunion shouldn't be mixed mistaken for a vacation. It's not exactly a big, it's bigger
[7:18]than that. Let's say it's more important than that. It's effortful, logistically, nightmarish,
[7:25]but it's, it's really, we all want to keep doing it. That's, that's what's the most astounding
[7:32]thing to me is in the next generation, in the next generation, they all want to show up.
[7:38]And this writing this book together was a continuation of that. The reunion is about being with
[7:46]family. We wrote this book together as a father and daughter. I had in my heart when I was working on it,
[7:53]you know, every day when I worked on this book, I would think my, my kids are going to read this,
[7:59]I hope, the better. But we couldn't escape this, or at least I couldn't escape this idea that
[8:10]wow, we're creating something, and sort of the archive of our family. This is something that
[8:19]we're going to be physically able to pass down. I hope that our reunions continue and that we
[8:24]stay together and that we keep doing this summer after summer, but it was very comforting to me
[8:29]to know that my kids will always be able to pick up this book and that I'll be able to pick up
[8:35]this book and future generations can pick up this book and know about our family and hear my dad's
[8:40]voice in particular. Can I read a little section of it to discuss? Okay, so this is about how you
[8:47]get in the good graces of children essentially, which is who is a challenge. This is Josie when you
[8:53]are on your first sort of retreat, if you will, with the family and you jump into the water.
[8:57]It says, when she hit the water, everything in me lifted, not relief exactly, more like a rush of
[9:03]joy that not only connected me to my four-year-old self, but in an instant locked her soul to mine,
[9:08]and to those of my parents and redefined my entire concept of what it means to be a father.
[9:13]It wasn't just that she'd done something brave. It was that she trusted me enough to do it,
[9:19]that she believed the water would be okay because I was already in it. That shifted something
[9:23]in me. That's the job I realized. You are the safe place. You're the one they leap toward
[9:28]when the water looks cold. I love that so much. Thank you. That is one of my favorite parts of this
[9:36]book because that passage is a really good example of how my dad and I wrote together,
[9:45]which is like its own really interesting thing, collaborative writing, but that is such a meaningful
[9:51]passage too because for me as a writer writing in my dad's point of view, using I,
[9:57]I was of course writing as him. I didn't, I wasn't the
[10:00]writer of this book. It was really collaborative. We trade it off. But he would pass me stories
[10:05]first. He always took the first pass. And then I would go into it and expand it and edit it
[10:11]and while he would move on. And when he sent me that chapter, which is his memory of me jumping
[10:18]in the water towards him, he stopped at the line and redefined what it was to be a father,
[10:23]period. But then I continued on and said, well, you know, I was able to tap into my memory
[10:32]of that happening and how I felt my dad was as a father to me and tying it back to my kids
[10:39]now who jumped in the water to me. So it was this sort of magical time travel kind of thing.
[10:49]because it is the exact same stuff. It's not like a different time given place. It's the same.
[11:06]Actually, it started. And here I think I was in my room and so it's wonderful to reflect on that
[11:18]anything. And that's the possibility that in Josie's, my grandpa would have mixed her into the
[11:28]hair, but that we plan to see if we give them a handbook to provide them their ways to how to
[11:42]keep it going. It's not always easy. It's it can be hard. You know,
[11:47]the family this big too, there's different political meanings. There's different religious beliefs.
[11:54]There's people were all over the country. I mean, there's so many different types of people
[12:01]and points of view coming together for this one week as you can imagine. And so it was also
[12:06]really important for us to, yes, show how important it is to keep coming back and getting together.
[12:13]And that chapter with the raft is a really good reminder of that. But we also, it was also
[12:17]really important to us that we include that the chapter off the table in which we talk about how
[12:24]like, look, this can be hard. You know, we're all getting together. There's certain things that
[12:30]we're just not going to talk about. And we're going to put that aside. We're just going to swim.
[12:34]We're just going to jump into the water. Yeah. It is literally and figuratively common ground.
[12:42]That's, you know, you know what I mean? This is the place. It's not just common ground. It's common
[12:47]water. But as I said, it's about the efforts to overcome and overcome and even overlook differences
[13:01]and focus more on what is what is shared. I love that.
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[14:03]things home. That's W-A-Y-F-A-I-R.com. Well, sharing bread is a theme in your family and when your
[14:22]dad came over to America and finally had warm, amazing bread and didn't have to, I mean his
[14:29]childhood was so traumatic. I mean today there would be hours and hours of EMDR and types of therapy
[14:37]to get kids over this, right? But he just like came in and pulled himself up and said I'm going to
[14:41]do this and and yet the memory of that amazing bread welcoming him and being able to taste that again
[14:46]was so important. Talk a little bit about just how the act of sharing not just ground water
[14:51]but a meal like the joys of breaking bread as you have all show about how that came about.
[14:58]Right? Well, the family, the-
[15:00]of the water is important, but the main centerpiece of the reunion is the food.
[15:05]Oh yeah.
[15:06]Unquestioned.
[15:07]We're there to eat.
[15:08]We're a family of people who love food, people who love to prepare food by shop for the
[15:14]right food, experiment with food, and share these recipes.
[15:18]And so in that, that was fostered when I was growing up from my grandparents, my
[15:24]parents, the Lebanese traditions, those dishes, although the book contains some
[15:31]of those, but not exclusively because there's a lot of Wisconsin fare and recipe that
[15:36]come from random places around the country.
[15:39]But things that have become favorites and are part of the rotation of our reunion.
[15:46]But yeah, it is key, you know, the gathering at a large table.
[15:52]And you know, there's one dish that we, one recipe that we really delve into, which
[15:57]is the stuffed grape leaves, favorite of Josie, certainly has been a favorite of my own life.
[16:02]And that has to do with everyone sitting around the table, the older ones showing the younger
[16:08]ones, how it works, what are the ingredients, how do we roll it, how do we, you know,
[16:14]restuff it, and it's a whole ritual involved.
[16:19]And then the instant gratification of it all, because it doesn't cook for that one, and
[16:24]it's fantastic when it comes out, and it's even better the second day.
[16:29]And it's better cold the third day, you know, as you're just, you know, like running by
[16:34]the counter, just grabbing a bite to eat.
[16:36]So it's some, yeah, the food is the food is essential.
[16:41]It's so, it's everything.
[16:42]My husband, when he first came to the reunion for the first time, he walked into the kitchen
[16:48]and my uncle Mike, before saying hello, put a spoon in his mouth and said, well, what
[16:53]does this need?
[16:54]That's my family, you know, you're, if you're in the kitchen, you're working and you're
[17:00]part of it.
[17:01]But what I love so much about not to sound like holier than now.
[17:08]And you know, like our family is the best, because, you know, we have our stuff too.
[17:12]But what's important to me about the reunion and why it's important to me that my kids
[17:17]go is because it's all about doing acts of service for someone else.
[17:24]I'm not there cooking dinner just for me.
[17:27]I'm cooking it for everybody else.
[17:30]And then they're doing that for me too.
[17:32]If you see something on the ground, you pick it up.
[17:35]And it's not for you.
[17:36]It's for someone else.
[17:37]And I think that is really important for kids to be a part of, like, you know, well,
[17:45]you want a grilled cheese?
[17:46]Great.
[17:47]You've got to ask if 50 other people want to know, you know, I think I would send my children
[17:54]to your family reunion next time.
[17:56]So save a couple of extra spots.
[17:57]And look, when I meet a little dose of that, when I was a teenager, I, there were years
[18:02]where I did not want to go, you know, what teenager wants to go spend their summer with
[18:07]their parents.
[18:08]There were absolutely summers where I didn't want to go.
[18:11]And I really didn't want it.
[18:12]And it's also not easy, easiest to get to.
[18:14]But those always end up being the summers that I got the most out of it too.
[18:19]Because again, I didn't go to spend time with my parents.
[18:22]I was there to spend time with my cousins who live in Atlanta that I don't get to see
[18:25]except for once a year.
[18:27]So that's also important, I think, is sometimes you just got to do things that you don't
[18:31]want to do for somebody else.
[18:33]Totally.
[18:34]Yeah.
[18:35]I think in Josie, please have a good point in not wanting to go when she was at a certain
[18:39]age.
[18:40]And then we're, and I talked about this in the book, too.
[18:42]We write about this, that there were times when I wasn't able to go mostly related
[18:47]to a work situation, if I had a job, or I just wasn't, I just couldn't make it that
[18:54]week.
[18:55]Everyone tries to make it, tries to carve out that time.
[18:58]But there's certainly been, maybe, hard, a handful of last 50 out here, but still a few
[19:04]summers where I had to be somewhere else, whether it was school or work.
[19:10]But there's also, there was also times when a work situation would come up, an opportunity
[19:16]would come up.
[19:17]And I would have to make a decision, do I really need to do this job?
[19:20]Or is it worth missing that family time?
[19:24]And sometimes I have to say, I made the right decision by not attending an intern.
[19:30]And sometimes I made the wrong understanding, where a job, a job that I thought was going
[19:36]to be an experience of a lifetime, turned out to be not as great, not worth missing
[19:44]that precious time.
[19:45]Because that's a week, seven-day period where you're just not going to get back in
[19:52]that same exact way.
[19:55]You can go the next year, but it'll be different.
[19:57]So that was always a bit of...
[20:00]the dilemma for me.
[20:01]And seeing that work life, family life.
[20:04]Yeah.
[20:05]And what is there one thing that you passed on?
[20:07]And it became like the biggest thing ever.
[20:09]And you're like, maybe I should have just done it.
[20:11]Job wise or a year.
[20:12]Yeah, job wise.
[20:14]No, actually, pay good.
[20:15]There aren't.
[20:17]The regrets come by not going to the reunion.
[20:20]Oh, well, there you go.
[20:23]I love that.
[20:24]Having your values in place and knowing how to make
[20:26]decisions is hard for everybody.
[20:29]So having that true north is great.
[20:31]You write in the book about your mother passing way
[20:34]when you were 29 years old.
[20:35]And I'm so sorry.
[20:37]You write going back to work with both a relief
[20:40]and a kind of betrayal.
[20:42]There was something oddly comforting
[20:43]about being told where to stand,
[20:45]when to speak, what time to show up.
[20:47]Grief doesn't come with a schedule.
[20:49]But theater does.
[20:50]I could lose myself in it for a few hours at a time
[20:53]and feel the weight of everything
[20:54]after I walked out the stage door.
[20:56]What was that period of time like for you?
[20:58]Well, it was, you know, that was a really rocky
[21:02]time for me.
[21:04]It was part of a theater company up in Cambridge,
[21:07]and Massachusetts, and the American military theater.
[21:10]And my mother was the first veteran to a thousand.
[21:14]And she died very unexpectedly.
[21:17]You know, I don't guess so.
[21:19]I never want to imagine that these departments
[21:21]are just going to go in forever, never.
[21:23]Well, mine well.
[21:25]It's obviously off.
[21:29]She wouldn't have been ill.
[21:31]She was fine.
[21:32]She was very sudden unexpected.
[21:35]And so it was a big moment.
[21:39]I was in rehearsal for a play at a R.T.
[21:45]I'll never forget this.
[21:46]And I went, I heard the news.
[21:49]I was a Saturday morning.
[21:51]And I went into rehearsal because I just thought
[21:54]that's what you have to do.
[21:56]I mean, I was part of this company.
[21:57]I'd been there three years since the director.
[22:00]I spoke to the director.
[22:02]To the director.
[22:03]And he said, well, do you have to go?
[22:06]You have to go and be with your father and your family.
[22:09]And I was like, yeah, but we're going.
[22:11]We're going into tech week.
[22:14]And we're going from the rehearsal room onto the stage.
[22:17]I can't.
[22:18]He was like, oh, no, no, you go.
[22:22]And of course, it was that I couldn't come up with that.
[22:26]But he was really, really supportive and helpful.
[22:29]So I did.
[22:29]I went on.
[22:31]We had that whole time together.
[22:34]But I felt when I was there that I did not want to go back
[22:40]to work.
[22:41]I need to stay here.
[22:42]I need to be with my clan, with my father,
[22:46]in my home I grew up in.
[22:48]But my father, and even much of the video,
[22:53]that that's the thing for you to do,
[22:54]will be due to get back to work now.
[22:57]This is over.
[22:58]There's not much really you can do.
[23:01]There's plenty of other.
[23:03]There's plenty of people who are going to be fine.
[23:05]So I did.
[23:06]I went back.
[23:07]It was a little bit of an out of body experience.
[23:09]I remember being on the stage, you know,
[23:12]elements of my costume rehearsing a scene.
[23:15]And in the middle of the scene,
[23:17]I had this feeling.
[23:20]I just stopped.
[23:21]I just stopped talking.
[23:23]No one said anything that the person on it was Cherry Jones,
[23:26]actually.
[23:27]Oh, wow.
[23:28]And I stopped.
[23:29]And I looked at her and she stopped and waited.
[23:33]I guess she must have known what I was going through.
[23:36]The director didn't say anything.
[23:38]Sitting out in the house, there was just
[23:40]a moment of absolute silence, which
[23:43]it must have felt like to me.
[23:44]It felt like five minutes, which is an eternity
[23:47]out of stage.
[23:50]And finally, I think I just sort of, I sensed, you know,
[23:54]the spirit of my mother wanting me to continue,
[23:58]wanting me to stay and to do my work.
[24:02]And so I spoke the words.
[24:04]I just started.
[24:05]And all of the sudden, it was like, I felt
[24:07]the therapy of it all.
[24:09]Dr. Theater, all of a sudden, I was, I didn't feel like I
[24:14]was in the wrong place.
[24:16]I felt like I was bullied by, you know, having
[24:21]had this wonderful mother for so many years
[24:24]in the blessing of that and doing what I felt that she would have
[24:29]wanted and what she felt was right.
[24:31]So that was a really, really interesting kind of felt
[24:34]like, you know, it was a moment.
[24:36]I was 29 years old, but it was kind of like
[24:39]the first moment where I thought, oh, bump up in a level
[24:44]of maturity and a delta.
[24:47]Yeah.
[24:47]Thank you for sharing that.
[24:49]Gosh, how does that make you feel?
[24:53]Well, like I said, my parents are never going to die.
[24:56]So there's that.
[24:57]No, no, because we wrote the book.
[24:59]Yeah.
[25:00]But my mom has never been, I've always been really afraid of my parents dying.
[25:10]It's an anxiety that I have always really carried, maybe part of partially.
[25:15]I think a lot of kids carry that fear, but for me it was a cute from an earlier age.
[25:20]And I wondered maybe it's because I was adopted or my dad was away traveling for work
[25:26]a lot.
[25:27]I don't know, but my mom has never been afraid of death.
[25:32]She always has said, I'm not afraid, so you don't have to be afraid.
[25:37]I don't know if this is what you were asking, but yeah.
[25:41]But what can I say, my parents are never going to die, so I don't have to worry about
[25:46]it.
[25:47]It's kind of pretty good, though.
[25:51]Let's go back to food then.
[25:52]On a lighter note.
[25:53]I don't know if I can.
[25:54]I'll just get back to work.
[25:56]But if you're so lucky to be able, I love that what you were just talking about, dad,
[26:01]how you were in your grief, which is you need to be in your grief.
[26:07]But then you can also find the joy of what you were able to have.
[26:12]And that can also be what propels you forward.
[26:14]Absolutely.
[26:15]Amazing.
[26:17]Favorite dishes in the back section of the book, among all these recipes, all your parents,
[26:22]I know you spoke about one, but it's hard or easiest to try or what's the first thing
[26:28]I should make.
[26:29]Well, the grape leaves are iconic.
[26:32]They're so different.
[26:33]They're warm and they're stuffed with rice and meat.
[26:37]And they're just very different from the Greek dalmas, which are served room temperature
[26:41]or cold with just rice.
[26:43]So I think that's a really, really special dish.
[26:46]And everybody can get around the table and make it together.
[26:50]But I also, right now, we were on the today show this morning, which was wild for me
[26:55]to get to be on the today show this morning.
[26:57]Congrats.
[26:58]It's so exciting.
[26:59]So amazing.
[27:00]And I'm going to leave him to be like, oh my god, I was on somebody.
[27:02]Oh, come on.
[27:03]Oh, thank you for even putting that in the same bucket with the today show.
[27:06]Thank you.
[27:07]So we had our Aunt Maggie's carrot cake.
[27:11]And I have to say, it is truly the best carrot cake I've had.
[27:17]And I love carrot cake.
[27:19]We had it on the day show.
[27:20]And I was just reminded, yeah, the recipes in this book are really, really excited.
[27:25]And we tested them a lot, shout out to our recipe developer, Emily Stevenson, who was
[27:32]incredible because she had to take hand written recipes that were in my family's beautiful
[27:40]script because they all write exactly the same because they all had the same none-teacher
[27:45]at Catholic school.
[27:47]And just these hand-written recipes on cards, that would say things like, cook until
[27:50]done.
[27:51]Add butter.
[27:52]Yeah.
[27:53]Yeah.
[27:54]But you can smell it, but we know because we've cooked a lot of these recipes for so many
[28:05]years.
[28:06]But what our recipe developer did is she took these recipes, some that were to serve 40,
[28:12]you know, like crazy recipes.
[28:16]And then she scaled them down, then she scaled them up, then she scaled them down, then
[28:20]she scaled them up.
[28:22]And so they work, and I can say that with confidence, these recipes are good, and they
[28:29]work.
[28:30]And most of the recipes in the book are connected to some of the stories and approaches.
[28:35]Yeah.
[28:36]Because people can have that extra experience.
[28:41]It's not just a random recipe in a good book.
[28:44]Amazing.
[28:45]Yeah.
[28:46]Yeah.
[28:47]But it was hard to whittle it down to these top 20, because we initially had a hundred
[28:51]recipes for a whole cookbook.
[28:54]Well, now they'll be excused to collaborate on future edition.
[28:58]Yeah.
[28:59]That's awesome.
[29:00]Thank you so much to both of you for coming today.
[29:03]Thank you for sharing your family history, your family stories, letting us all into that
[29:08]wild weekend that many of us will never have.
[29:10]But now we can imagine being there.
[29:12]Congratulations.
[29:13]We thought they'd never leave, and I am so glad that you were here.
[29:16]Thank you.
[29:17]Thank you.
[29:18]Thank you.
[29:19]Congrats.
[29:20]Thank you for listening to totally booked with Zibi, formerly momstone have time to read
[29:23]books.
[29:24]If you loved the show, tell a friend, leave a review, follow me on Instagram at Zibi Owens,
[29:30]and spread the word.
[29:32]Thanks so much.
[29:33]And bye the books.