Author Event! Kate Doerge & Jennifer Levi
[0:00]I'm sure we don't think that.
[0:02]They are more chairs.
[0:03]These are different.
[0:04]There are more chairs back here.
[0:06]There are still seats.
[0:08]There are seats over here.
[0:10]Come sit.
[0:12]Come sit!
[0:13]Come sit.
[0:15]Come sit.
[0:18]We're, I'm a hugger and I feel like I need a hug.
[0:30]Hi.
[0:31]What a great group.
[0:36]I feel like I want to go around and have everyone say their name because this is such an
[0:40]amazing group and such good energy.
[0:43]Okay.
[0:44]Okay.
[0:45]We're good.
[0:46]Start by reading your bios.
[0:47]No.
[0:48]Is this thing on?
[0:49]Yes.
[0:50]We want to start.
[0:51]Okay.
[0:52]I'll start.
[0:53]I'll introduce you.
[0:54]Yeah.
[0:55]It's dirty.
[0:56]Yeah.
[0:57]It's so tough.
[0:58]It's heavy.
[0:59]It's heavy.
[1:00]That's what I'm like.
[1:01]It's not easy.
[1:02]All right.
[1:03]Good.
[1:04]Yeah.
[1:05]Yeah.
[1:06]We're good.
[1:07]Okay.
[1:08]Welcome, everybody.
[1:16]Thank you all so much for coming to Zibi's bookshop for this very, very special event.
[1:22]And thanks so much to Jennifer Levy and Cape Dergie for being here tonight.
[1:27]I'm just going to read their bios quickly for those of you who don't know and also for people
[1:31]watching on the live stream, which is on sub stack for anyone interested.
[1:36]Okay.
[1:37]Here is their, here are their bios.
[1:39]Cape Dergie is a certified grief coach motivational speaker, author and nonprofit founder.
[1:45]Her mission is to inspire others to live with joy and lead with purpose.
[1:50]Cape is the co-founder and CEO of Penny's Flight Foundation and nonprofit dedicated to raising
[1:55]awareness and funding for a neurofibritosis, NF.
[1:58]The foundation was launched in honor of her daughter, Penny and works to advance research
[2:02]and support that an F community through her writing, speaking and advocacy, Kate encourages
[2:07]others to imagine a new path through grief, one that allows space for healing, strength
[2:11]and joy after loss.
[2:13]Visit CapeDergie.com or at DergieK on Instagram, Jennifer, that's our, you can clap.
[2:21]Jennifer Levy has a truly remarkable story of resilience.
[2:29]After losing her home in the devastating California wildfires, she faced further tragedy
[2:33]just five months later when her 18-year-old son, Braun, was killed by a drunk driver.
[2:39]Channeling her grief into a meaningful mission, she founded the Live Like Braun Foundation
[2:43]to honor his legacy.
[2:44]The foundation is dedicated to providing need-based scholarships for under-resourced students,
[2:49]renovating public athletic facilities and hosting workshops to promote DUI awareness.
[2:54]Jennifer has also become a powerful advocate for legislative reform in California, successfully
[2:59]championing SB 907 and Braun's law.
[3:03]Beyond her advocacy, Jennifer is the author of The Bronicals, a children's book inspired
[3:08]by her son's humor and heart as a regular contributor to Maria Shriver's Sunday paper,
[3:13]she shares her journey through grief forgiveness and the pursuit of a purposeful life following
[3:17]profound loss.
[3:18]A huge welcome to the two of you.
[3:19]Thank you.
[3:20]Thank you.
[3:24]So this is a huge honor for me to be sitting with Kate, with the amount of her me, with you.
[3:33]So first of all, I picked up this book and you can see it, it has million, million tabs.
[3:39]And at first, you know, I read this, let me go back, when we lost our son dramatically
[3:46]and tragically, I must have gotten 50 books as gifts, a box full gift.
[3:53]And I think I see a face here who took that box for me and donated it somewhere.
[3:58]Because none of the books made sense.
[4:00]And I just walked around saying, what do I do?
[4:02]What do I do?
[4:03]Like this is not my life.
[4:05]I wish I would have had this book a year ago because this is what you do.
[4:12]And I'm really excited to talk to you about what do you do?
[4:16]Because it's not only for people who are grieving, but it's also like a life lesson
[4:22]book.
[4:23]It's how to live your best life.
[4:24]This is really how to live your best life, no matter what you're caring.
[4:28]That's the point of that.
[4:30]Yeah, well, that's the hope.
[4:31]And this is the book that I wanted when I lost my father to heart failure, my mother
[4:36]in a car crash five days before Christmas.
[4:38]And my beautiful 16-year-old daughter, Penny.
[4:42]And similar to you, people were sending me all of these books that were so depressing.
[4:46]And I was like, I don't want to be told that I'm going to have to sit in this.
[4:51]And I'm going to have to let these five stages of grief wash over me.
[4:55]And just as a side note, those five stages of grief, that was written in the 19.
[5:00]60s. And if last I looked, we're in the year 2026. And so it's about time that we had
[5:06]something that allows us to have agency and control during an otherwise uncontrollable time in
[5:12]our lives. And so for me, I didn't wake up to say, I'm going to be an author. This is not,
[5:18]this wasn't my life's plan, but this is my life's purpose. And I am so grateful that Penny
[5:24]is my partner in this. And I'm so hopeful that this is the book that allows people to recognize
[5:30]there's a different way through grief. As you and I have both been through this, you know,
[5:34]you don't have to sit in it. You can take control to move through it in a different way.
[5:41]So I've reimagined the five stages into actional steps to move through grief.
[5:46]Well, when I first opened your book, I circled something I'm going to read and it's kind of
[5:51]explained it all. I'm like, okay, now I know. Now I know what happened. How this came to be,
[5:57]I think. So Kate writes about her wedding night. And I think all of us can relate to this,
[6:03]you know, your wedding night. When you graduate college, your first child, your first job,
[6:08]your young life's exciting. It's all going to be amazing, right? That's like, yep,
[6:13]you've got everything ahead of you and it's going to be amazing. And your father said to you on
[6:18]your wedding night. And this made me cry when I first read it. When you need, what you need to know
[6:24]is that no matter what happens, it is up to you how you decide to play the cards you are dealt.
[6:30]You don't have a choice in which cards come up, but you can and will decide how you play them.
[6:36]And how you play them will determine your happiness and life. How you play them will determine
[6:41]everything. Yeah. And I thought, wow, that's, I mean, I started bawling crying because that's just
[6:47]not grief. That's everything that comes at you. And it is. I mean, it's so true. There we were,
[6:52]Chad and I, my husband, we had been dating for six years. We were standing there at a rehearsal dinner
[6:57]with this beautiful crowd in front of us. And he said to us, he was like, you lived a charm
[7:03]life. You beautiful friends. I mean, you have a wonderful family, but you will be challenged.
[7:08]And that's up to you. How you play the cards you're dealt. And what I didn't say that,
[7:12]or maybe I did in the book, we both looked at each other and then my dad and we're like,
[7:15]you're really killing our body. I'm like, you're like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, we're like, whatever
[7:22]dad. But what I will say about that is my dad was my greatest role model. He was such a force in
[7:28]my life. He was a marine, studied to be a priest. And so when he said that, I knew he really meant
[7:35]my dad was so filled with faith. And I also laughed because in the book I talk about how my dad
[7:41]used to say when his time comes, it comes. And we also thought that was so morbid. But I think
[7:46]looking back on that when my father meant was when his time came, it came because he had lived
[7:52]his life with purpose and integrity and no regrets. So when he did give us that advice, it was like,
[7:59]okay, I'm going to hold onto that. And it was the first moment if I can dive into it, just telling
[8:05]our story. It was when our daughter Penny, who was our second child, rolled off our bed, a four
[8:12]months old, and she fractured her tippy about. And we raced up to hospital for special surgery in
[8:19]New York City where we live. And the doctor took one look at the x-ray and he said, well, not only
[8:25]is this a fracture, but it's something very rare called congenial pseudothesis, one out of 300,000
[8:31]kids have it. And because it's so rare, we typically only see it under the umbrella of something
[8:36]called neurofibromatosis, NF. And both Chad and I were like, what the hell? We'd never heard of either
[8:42]of those races. And he said, but don't Google it because you have a long road ahead of you. And
[8:48]we don't take this leg seriously. She might lose it. And so there we were with little Penny
[8:54]four months old in my arms. And we looked at each other and we're like, we have a choice. How
[8:58]are we going to play this? And so we made sure she bedazzled her calves and accessorized her braces
[9:04]to match all of our outfits. And she lived a big beautiful bright life. And I always say she
[9:10]lived more in her 16 years than most people do in 100 because she lived it with positivity and
[9:16]resilience and joy. And that's because we had a choice. And the 15 surgeries she had during
[9:23]her life, we approached each one with a choice. We can either let this define her or we keep moving
[9:30]forward and make sure she lives a big, right, beautiful life. Well, you right, we're going to go kind of
[9:35]up over here. But you write about the end of her life. Yeah. How you made a cocoon of love.
[9:39]Yeah. Which I thought was so beautiful. Because not everybody gets that. No, they don't get that choice.
[9:45]Right. Or they don't know what to do. And then Kate, literally, if you buy this book has like a checklist,
[9:52]like to do a few of them on what to do. What to do to prepare for your death? What to do
[9:59]with someone?
[10:00]and I thought it was so beautiful of this idea,
[10:03]so tell me about this good cooking.
[10:05]Well, that was incredible.
[10:06]That was incredible.
[10:07]And again, I think it goes back to my dad's advice
[10:11]because so Penny had 15 surgeries in her life.
[10:14]She had seven on her leg to fuse the bone.
[10:16]She wore a little protect of brace,
[10:17]but we bedazzled it, and she wore big, beautiful bows
[10:20]in her hair, and she lived this beautiful life.
[10:23]She had seven brain surgeries.
[10:24]So neurofibromatosis, which is the growth of tumors
[10:29]anywhere along the nerve pathways
[10:30]can affect people in different ways.
[10:32]So in Penny's case, she had this boat tibia bone,
[10:35]and she had little cafe-olet spots,
[10:36]but she didn't have anything else until age 14,
[10:39]she developed the first of the seven tumors that were removed.
[10:44]It was benign at first until it turned the leg in it.
[10:47]And after the seventh surgery to remove the tumor,
[10:50]there was nothing more to be done.
[10:52]The tumor spread, and we were told that news.
[10:54]And we were at Memorialstone Kettering, and Chad and I
[10:57]looked at each other again and said, we have a choice.
[11:00]We can sit in this depressing hospital room
[11:02]and feel very sorry for ourselves in the darkness of this room,
[11:05]or we can bring our home.
[11:07]And we can fill our house with love and light and music
[11:11]and bring in all of our friends and all of our family members
[11:15]and have her dogs on her bed and love her up,
[11:18]and we created this love cocoon.
[11:21]And I'll never forget, I was just laughing,
[11:23]because the only fight that Chad and I had during that time
[11:27]is what music we had on.
[11:28]He's like a big jam band fan and he loves fish.
[11:31]And I'm yacht rocks and 70s on seven.
[11:34]And but we filled the house with so much light
[11:38]that it was so beautiful.
[11:40]And I had a friend just a couple of weeks ago, say to me,
[11:42]she was like, I never told you this story.
[11:45]But when we got that call, that you were bringing Penny home
[11:49]and we all were going to be there for you.
[11:51]We wanted to show you the love and the light.
[11:53]And she said, so I went on Amazon.
[11:55]And I ordered all of these battery lit candles,
[11:58]because in my mind, we were going to create a vigil
[12:02]around your house.
[12:03]I'm going to show you the light.
[12:05]And I started laughing because I was like,
[12:06]what, you thought you were going to be on the outside of the house?
[12:10]And she said, and I know, because when we arrived at your house,
[12:13]you brought the light in.
[12:15]And she said, no, none of us could believe that.
[12:18]And I was like, I can't imagine it any other way,
[12:22]because this cocoon of love was so bright.
[12:25]And so unusual for people that we sent Penny out
[12:30]on a rocket ship of love.
[12:32]And I do believe, if you're the one who's passing to the other side,
[12:37]imagine that.
[12:38]Like imagine that feeling of having all the people you love
[12:43]around you and feeling that sense of just a cocoon.
[12:47]So we lost our son tragically.
[12:49]So we didn't have a chance to make a cocoon.
[12:51]But a lot of you in this room know, you
[12:52]were part of the cocoon, which one of my friends
[12:55]is coined, the raging shiva.
[12:56]I know.
[12:57]I love that.
[12:57]So much.
[12:59]That's like a term we should use, the raging shiva.
[13:03]Are these people crazy?
[13:04]Right.
[13:05]Are these people, too?
[13:06]Yes.
[13:06]So we've party so hard.
[13:08]And it was, you know, it wasn't because we were, of course,
[13:12]we weren't happy to know what he would have wanted.
[13:14]And it was a chance for its community to connect.
[13:16]Yes.
[13:17]Yes.
[13:17]And that's one of my first actions
[13:20]in the five new actions to move through grief.
[13:22]And grief is not linear.
[13:24]I'm not saying this book like you have to date these apps
[13:27]and you go through this.
[13:27]This is what worked for us, but the recognition
[13:31]that connection, celebration, keeping open to the signs,
[13:35]movement, and turning pain into purpose, which are the five.
[13:39]I start with connection because there's so much scientific
[13:43]research that says, we as individuals cannot move
[13:47]through this life nor can we move through loss alone.
[13:51]We need each other.
[13:52]So connection is critical to that, you know,
[13:56]lessening, prolonged grief, depression, anxiety, PTSD,
[14:01]studies show like we meet each other.
[14:04]So for me, and I'm sure this was similar for you,
[14:07]Penny's girlfriends were 16 years old.
[14:09]They had never experienced loss.
[14:11]And they hadn't even lost a grandparent.
[14:14]My boys, they had lost their grandparents,
[14:17]but they didn't know what to do.
[14:19]So I was like, I have to bring everyone together.
[14:22]We have to support one another through this.
[14:25]Nobody knows what to do.
[14:27]No one knows what to do.
[14:28]No one knows what to do.
[14:28]And I love you quote, there is no way to spend grief.
[14:32]It's hard.
[14:33]It's messy.
[14:35]It's destabilizing.
[14:36]It is.
[14:37]And it's true for not only you and everyone that loves you
[14:41]and is around you.
[14:42]Yes.
[14:43]So tell me, when did you decide, OK,
[14:45]these are the five steps, and I'm
[14:46]going to write about it.
[14:48]Gosh, it is exhausting.
[14:50]Yeah.
[14:51]It is exhausting.
[14:52]But I felt like, again, I go back to there
[14:55]such a need.
[14:57]And I saw the difference, these five actions.
[15:00]had made for us. And because there wasn't a book out there that gave you any sort of road
[15:05]map, I was like, I just want to help others recognize there's a new path forward because in the
[15:12]book when I talk about how important connection is, right? And then we talk about celebration.
[15:17]For me, you know, we, because Penny had lived such a big, bright life, we wanted to celebrate
[15:24]her and honor her life in that way. And because grief is not one way, we didn't want to
[15:31]cookie cutter it. Penny never wore black. So we were like, everyone's going to wear color,
[15:36]everyone's going to sing the song she loved. We're going to make little napkins with all of her
[15:40]favorite scenes, which one of them was seriously mom. She would always say that. So I feel like
[15:46]she'd roll her eyes and be like, seriously mom. So that was on the cards. Well, just we're going
[15:52]going to get back on track to the by themselves. But something that we had talked about was,
[15:55]what's really great when people talk to you about your child that you've lost is not when they
[16:01]say, I'm so sorry, they tell you a story about them. Absolutely. Absolutely. I'm happy to see you, Kate.
[16:08]Yes. I can't remember the time when Penny Volvo bought. Yes. I wish I would have known Penny.
[16:12]Yes. And I can share a story with you. And that keeps them alive. It keeps them alive.
[16:17]And that is so important. That's why we also talk about changing the narrative around grief,
[16:22]because by bringing people in with connection with celebrating them, honoring them, you're keeping
[16:28]their legacy alive. So another example of just on this celebration, keeping legacy alive. My
[16:34]mother, my mother was a belly dancer. She was a jazzer size instructor. She was the brightest
[16:39]light with the biggest heart. And so when I spoke to her on December 18th in the morning,
[16:47]and then I got a phone call that night on my way home from work. And it was from my godmother
[16:51]who said there's been an accident. And you got to call the hospital. And your mom's been airlifted.
[16:56]And when I called the hospital, they picked up the phone and they said, I'm so sorry to tell you,
[17:01]but she didn't make it. And we had a choice. We could fall apart. I was sitting in my driveway. And
[17:06]my three kids inside who were ready to celebrate Christmas. And I could decide to stand the car
[17:13]or what I did was I went inside. And I told my kids, this has happened. But we're going to honor
[17:18]her. And we're going to celebrate her. And we're going to move forward in the way she would want
[17:23]us to do because she would not want us sitting in the dark. And it would be very easy for me,
[17:28]like you, to lie in bed with the covers over my head. But that is not what my mom would want.
[17:34]So we made the choice to celebrate her in a way that was keeping her legacy alive. No one
[17:41]wore black. Everyone wore color. We had fireworks at the celebration of her life. Silent. But they
[17:46]were beautiful because my mom was a firework. And I love to your point when people would come up.
[17:52]Instead of saying, I'm so sorry and making me almost feel worse. People would be like, I remember
[17:59]the time. And your mother wore her belly dance and got some did all that. And that's the way to honor
[18:04]them. Well, people are often scared that they're going to make you cry or upset you. Say the wrong
[18:10]thing. And I always say, listen, you can't make me feel worse than I already feel. Right. Right.
[18:15]Right. You're going to be crying. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. And it's better to keep the
[18:23]stories going because that's what you want to hear. And that creates a connection. I always say,
[18:28]by saying to someone, I'm so sorry, you're almost distancing yourself from them versus like,
[18:35]I'm here for you. I love you. Great to see you. Great to see you. I, you know, I'm thinking about
[18:41]you today. I remember the time, Braun and I did this. Like that's what keeps them alive.
[18:46]One other thing I'll say about celebration because as the second action I take to move through
[18:51]grief, you know, customizing it to the person you love, doing all the things that they love.
[18:57]the traditional grieving is again. It feels so antiquated because we as humans are people in
[19:05]and of ourselves. So while grief is not one way, the person you're honoring was not one way.
[19:12]So for me, again, with my mom, she, she shouldn't have been in an old traditional church singing
[19:19]Ave Maria, saying all the prayers that everyone says, like, she was the brightest light. So my
[19:25]favorite celebration of my mom actually was in the community where we would go in the summertime
[19:32]and I asked everyone to come to this parade and they came dressed as their favorite Cassie.
[19:36]So it was come dressed as your favorite Cassie and people dressed up in their tennis outfits and
[19:41]their golf. I wore a belly dancing costume. My kids were, you know, my kids were horrified.
[19:48]But it was such a beautiful way to honor her for who she was. And I think also thinking about that,
[19:54]like, imagine celebrating the loved one for who they were and what they said.
[20:00]for. So let me ask you, Penny, you know, you found out at a very young age that she had something
[20:06]very serious. So did you live your life with your husband never knowing when she was going to die?
[20:14]Or did you have like a good idea of like, this is going to be her trajectory? Yes. No,
[20:20]because NF affects everyone in different ways. So it's not necessarily terminal. So you can have
[20:26]up the nine tumors, literally all over your body. You can have tumors that lead you to go blind.
[20:32]You can have tumors, leads you to go hearing. So it's almost like you're waiting for the train to fall off the track.
[20:36]That's right. I have a question not knowing. How did you keep, what was your attitude, your feelings
[20:42]attitude as you were riding the train? We have a choice. How are we going to play this? And it was,
[20:48]are we going to let this define her? Or are we going to live every day to the fullest and make sure she had the most
[20:55]beautiful life? And I think that was, we were following Penny's lead. So she, again, I know she
[21:01]was living her life's purpose to show us all how to live life and with such positivity and when we
[21:09]get into turning pain into purpose and how he launched Penny's flight in her honor, you know, our
[21:13]pillars are finding beauty and imperfection positivity in the face of challenge and having faith
[21:18]over fear. Because that's how Penny lived her life. She was always determined to have the brain
[21:25]surgery and then go river rafting. Have another surgery, celebrate her 16th birthday. What she was
[21:31]going through did not define her. So for us, we were following her lead. It was not easy. I'm not like
[21:37]sugarcoating the same, you know, everything was reimbous and butterflies. But it was a decision we
[21:43]made to recognize like we just got to live life and live every day to the fullest because we
[21:49]don't know what's going to happen. It's a great way to live your life. So, okay, so now let's go,
[21:54]let's go through the five, the road map, the road map, getting through hard parts of your life,
[22:02]getting degree and unexpected. Okay, so the first one was connection of others. Yes, critical
[22:09]because scientific research shows us we need each other celebrating. That is because grief does not
[22:16]look one way. So we should not cookie cutter it for our loved ones. Do what they loved. Keep them
[22:23]alive. Celebrate them for what they stood for. Third one is keeping open to the signs. So I could
[22:29]talk about this all night long because the only book that gave me comfort was Laura Lynn Jackson's
[22:38]signs and a friend sent it to me and Penny wore this necklace of this one that has her name on it
[22:44]so the butterflies. We, the butterflies came in right away with pen because I told someone this earlier
[22:52]but a butterfly represents an in extinguishable soul always drawn to the light and that was so
[22:58]penny. And so even in the last week of her life when we brought her home and we created this love
[23:04]cocoon it was November butterflies outside of her window like who sees butterflies in Long Island
[23:10]in November but they were there. And after Penny passed Chad and I we have two boys took our boys
[23:18]and our dogs and we went for a long walk and one of our most favorite places. And as a side note
[23:25]Penny's favorite song in which she belted out ever since she was a little girl's walking on sunshine
[23:31]because that was literally her life mantra. She walked on sunshine and so we had gone for this walk
[23:37]and we got back into the car turned on the car walking on sunshine was playing and we all
[23:43]looked at each other and I have chills still because we were like hi Ben no coincidence when we got
[23:48]back to the house a friend of mine pulled us aside because again this love cocoon we would have 50
[23:54]we was like the ship of the raging ships. We had 50 to 60 people at our house at any one time
[24:00]we pulled back into the driveway and my friend Michelle pulled me aside and she said I just
[24:04]want to show you this picture. Well you and Chad were upstairs with Penny in the room where she
[24:09]passed. Friends of ours were walking around the house and our house was like glowing in that day
[24:16]it was so bright it was so beautiful and they took this picture and it's the light streaming into
[24:22]the window and I said oh my gosh that's so beautiful. You share that picture with me and it is
[24:27]incredible. It's like a low way away. Yes and I looked at the timestamp of the photo and this
[24:33]exact moment Penny had passed and then when she said but look at the picture and in the driveway
[24:40]is the reflection of a cross pointing directly to Penny's and you've seen it. Incredible picture
[24:46]cross or an angel so like the signs for me are so beautiful because they bring us such
[24:52]comfort that our loved ones are still with us and if we open our eyes and even ask for the signs
[24:59]they're with us.
[25:00]And I'm like witchy a little bit in a way because I have so many signs.
[25:05]And my husband, he was open to the signs.
[25:07]You can't deny walking on sunshine, turning on the radio.
[25:12]But I had an incredible story yesterday on Father's Day.
[25:15]I see signs all the time.
[25:16]And again, we can talk about all the signs because I have so many stories.
[25:20]But Chad on Father's Day yesterday with our two boys went out to play golf and I got
[25:25]a whole one one on Father's Day.
[25:28]And I was like, that's a present from Penny for you.
[25:33]So signs is three.
[25:35]Four is get moving because grief, anxiety, depression, and this is why these stages apply
[25:42]to other things, not just loss, but it sits in our bodies.
[25:47]And we need to physically move in order to shift that energy and move it through your
[25:51]body.
[25:52]And again, scientific research, the gray matter of your brain holds grief.
[25:57]So it is like a gear shift stuck in neutral.
[26:00]And you literally have to physically move in order to shift that gear shift into drive.
[26:06]And once you do it once, you show your body that you're apt to keep shifting it into
[26:11]drive.
[26:12]And it becomes easier with time.
[26:14]So I love the story that you went to an exercise class shortly after Penny died.
[26:19]Yeah.
[26:20]And it just resonated with me because maybe a day or two after Brahma is killed.
[26:25]My husband and my daughter and I went to a core power class.
[26:28]Yeah.
[26:29]And I think we were still in shock.
[26:30]I don't know what we were doing, but we were doing what you're saying.
[26:32]Just moving.
[26:33]Start moving.
[26:34]And I think people thought we were so crazy because we came out and we had friends waiting
[26:37]for us in the waiting room, you know, or the checking desk and people thought, what are they
[26:42]doing?
[26:43]Are they okay now?
[26:44]I know.
[26:45]But there's something about this drive to move your body and to move your energy through.
[26:53]and every time someone says this and I know you get this all the time, when people are
[26:57]like, I can't imagine losing a child.
[27:00]I'm like, well, no, you can't, but imagine if you did, imagine you have a choice.
[27:05]You can sit in bed with the covers over your head, lose your other children, lose your
[27:09]husband, lose your community, or you can put your two feet on the ground and one foot
[27:15]in front of the other and get outside, put your face to the center and keep moving forward.
[27:21]And the things you can do in there on are bringing people together.
[27:24]So for me, movement, yeah, getting to that exercise class was not only to move my energy
[27:30]but it was also to connect with others because I felt like I really needed that.
[27:35]So movement is important and I talk about in the book, you know, the different types of
[27:39]movement that you need, whether you're angry as a kickboxing, is it slow movement just
[27:44]getting to the beach and going for a walk with a friend, just showing yourself you can
[27:48]keep moving forward instead of that gear shift stuck in neutral.
[27:54]So that was for me.
[27:55]Do you ever feel like you go two steps forward once a factor?
[27:58]Of course.
[27:59]Of course.
[28:00]Because grief is like this.
[28:01]You have great days and they really shitty days.
[28:03]Yeah.
[28:04]I want to make sure that we recognize that.
[28:06]Yes.
[28:07]It's not just take these steps.
[28:08]No.
[28:09]No.
[28:10]But these steps are tools to go back to.
[28:14]So it's like when you are grieving, you're getting crushed by a wave over and over
[28:19]and over again.
[28:21]And that's where with the other books, I was given it was like, oh, you got to sit.
[28:25]You got to sit that wave and just wait because then you're going to finally get to acceptance
[28:30]but you got to sit in it.
[28:31]And so for me, these actions were more about, okay, well, when those waves come, what
[28:37]can you do?
[28:38]Again, lean on connection, lean on asking for the signs, keep moving forward.
[28:45]And you know, all of those things strengthen you.
[28:47]It doesn't, it doesn't make grief go away because grief is with you every day.
[28:52]It's just giving you tools to help move through grief.
[28:56]And then am I at five?
[28:58]Yeah.
[28:59]No, now we're going to buy it.
[29:00]Yeah.
[29:01]I'm just going to skip the front and go.
[29:02]Yeah, no.
[29:03]Can I ask you another question?
[29:04]Yes.
[29:05]Keep asking.
[29:06]Thanks a lot.
[29:07]There's what do you do or what do you recommend when sometimes you don't want to be like
[29:11]an actor?
[29:12]You don't want to be like an actor.
[29:13]I know.
[29:14]I know.
[29:15]Yes.
[29:16]I had a higher exhausted.
[29:17]I mean, grief is like, I actually compare it to, again, the metamorphosis of a butterfly
[29:22]because from a caterpillar, you go in a goo, like literal goo.
[29:27]So when you've experienced grief, you can barely lift your head up off the pillow, let
[29:32]alone put two feet on the ground and keep moving forward.
[29:35]But I think again, with these steps to move forward and keep going, you recognize like
[29:42]the growth that you're experienced and how do you come out of this?
[29:46]But I will say, I'm now a certified grief counselor, which again, who knew my whole background
[29:52]is PR communications marketing and here I am, living my life's purpose and I'm grateful
[29:58]for it.
[30:00]had a session recently and I had a friend who joined and she just lost her dad and she
[30:04]was like, Kate, I can't do this. She's like, I want to stay in bed. I want to put Andre
[30:10]Bocelli on on my, you know, and just because that's what her dad loved. And she's like,
[30:14]I just want to weep because that is my way of feeling connected to him. And I was like,
[30:19]I understand. I get it. And I appreciate that. But what if you put earpods, earbuds? What
[30:25]like all the earbuds in your ear, blast Andre Mitchelli, but go to the beach. Put your face
[30:32]in the sunshine. Keep walking. Show yourself you're still connected to him and you're honoring him,
[30:37]but you're moving. And she did it. And she texted me a picture of her with the dogs on the beach.
[30:44]She was like, I'm doing it. She said, I didn't want you, but I feel better by getting outside. But
[30:48]I'm still connected to him. What about you? Do you ever just stay in bed one day? Because like, you just
[30:53]can't. I, I mean, there's been those days. I know, damn, my friends in the audience are going
[31:02]to tell the truth. No, but I was going to say no, because I always ask myself, what would Penny
[31:09]want me to do? Like, would Penny want me to lie in bed? No, she would want me to get up. Like,
[31:14]would my mom want me sitting in bed feeling sorry for myself? No, and it's not easy, but that's
[31:22]what I go back to every time. Like, what would they want me to be doing? They want me to keep
[31:27]moving forward. Okay, now, sorry guys, now we're on step five. Yeah, a lot of questions. So
[31:34]pain into purpose. So pain into purpose for us and you, you know, it looks big. Like, we have both
[31:42]of us, you know, took all of the energy and anger and everything and like advocacy and, and, you know,
[31:50]for, for Chad and I and the boys, after Penny's life celebration, we recognize how much love and
[31:56]support we had from our friends and our community. We had 1200 people show up to Penny's life
[32:01]celebration. And all of a sudden, we were like, we had to do something. We got to harness all of this
[32:07]love and support. And because there's no cure for NF, we recognize like, if we don't do this,
[32:14]who else is going to do it? And we didn't know what we were doing. And we just leaned in the heart
[32:18]first and we brought all of our friends together and we sat around our dining room table and we
[32:24]were like, we're going to launch a foundation. And our son Henry, when we were talking about the name,
[32:29]we were like, is it Penny's purpose? Because she lives such a big, bright light life. And he was like,
[32:34]no, it's, it's Penny's flight because she had such a big, beautiful life. And her wingspan continues
[32:40]to be able to help others. I love it when you say it's not your lifespan. It's your wingspan. Yes,
[32:45]it's not your lifespan because it's your wingspan. What we do with our big, beautiful lives and
[32:52]how we impact others, that's what matters most. And it's the simplest act. You know, I say the
[32:58]simplest acts such as the flap of a butterflies wind can cause a revolution. And that's what we're
[33:03]trying to do. We're trying to find a cure for NF. And I'm trying to change the narrative around grief.
[33:08]But I think the idea of turning pain into purpose doesn't have to be launching a foundation and
[33:14]finding a cure. I say it's very intimidating for 99% of grievers. Yeah. Yeah. I think I look at it as
[33:21]the simplest act, whether it's you've lost someone to mental, you know, health issues,
[33:27]you know, writing an op-ed piece for your local paper, sharing your story to help others.
[33:32]Is it launching a bake sale to raise money for the condition that took someone's life? Is it,
[33:38]you know, going for a walk with a friend who's in need? And I love this exercise of my grief
[33:46]certification program because it talks about mending a broken heart. And it's in order to mend a
[33:52]broken heart. You have to heal someone else's broken heart. And I love that because that's the
[33:58]that's the butterfly effect in action. You know, that's like by the simplest act of helping someone
[34:03]then they share that and they share that. I always say that that it's very healing. Yes. To give
[34:08]a scholarship. To make a difference. Yeah. It's all of a sudden it like fills you with this warmth
[34:14]that I've never felt before. Right. And that's I think that's also part of this book for me. It was
[34:19]so healing because I was like, this is what's helped me and I want to help others. And by helping
[34:24]others, that's going to fuel me. So it's just that continuation. So pain into purpose doesn't have
[34:30]to be launching a foundation. It could be what's the simplest act that can make a difference.
[34:35]How long did it take you to write this book? Oh my gosh. It feels like the birth of a child. It's really
[34:39]desperate. Well, especially because I, my publisher says I'm not allowed to say this, where is
[34:44]Zippy? Zippy's covering this. It's like I barely read books until I've heard that. But my point of
[34:55]that is like, if you have a story that you want to share to.
[35:00]help others share it. You can do it. I have this incredible beautiful co-author and the story
[35:07]of that was amazing because when we were connected her son had had cancer and we were connected
[35:13]by a wonderful friend who said Kate she really needs a connection with Memorial Sun Kettering.
[35:18]I was like great. I want to hear her story and in our conversation I was helping her more than she
[35:23]was going to be helping me because she wanted to give back to MSK where her son had been treated.
[35:28]He's in remission now and so through our conversation she was like you need to tell your story
[35:33]and I was like I don't even know where to begin or how to do it and she said well that's what I do
[35:37]I'm a ghostwriter. So we started our conversation and I sent her a picture of Penny. This goes back
[35:43]to the signs and it's a picture of Penny. Penny passed on November 10th, October 31st Halloween
[35:49]Penny dresses an angel for Halloween and she went trick or treat with her friends. So I sent this
[35:54]picture to Sara and she was on the phone with me and she was like oh my gosh this is so beautiful.
[35:59]I said I know she's dressed in the angel and she said yes but the planter behind her is in the shape
[36:05]of an owl and I said well that was my grandmothers and she said well my sister sends me signs of
[36:10]owls and I said oh my gosh I you know what was your sister's name? She said Cassie which is my mother's
[36:16]name and I was like all right that's crazy but not. That's a sign actually I'll tell you one more
[36:23]sign because this is so amazing. Okay okay okay I know we could go on night. No we could go
[36:32]all night but I am going to tell one last sign sorry because Sara and I this has been a two-year
[36:36]process we were together and Laura Lynn Jackson I have a huge crush on because she was my
[36:42]lifeline and love her and I met her on November 10th no coincidence Penny's third anniversary
[36:49]her passing she was she had launched her most recent book guided and I went and met her and
[36:56]she and I became fast friends or so many signs between that but the day she agreed to read my book
[37:03]she agreed to endorse my book and the day that the endorsement was due I was waiting for it and
[37:08]I was anxious because I felt like having her endorsement would really help this book have wings
[37:14]so I woke up that morning I walked outside thinking about Laura Lynn Jackson and just as
[37:20]this I don't my husband and his friends have created these owl boxes in our backyard to see if
[37:24]they can catch an owl they do and so I know we had never had an owl so like four months my
[37:32]husband and his crazy friends were staring at these owls I'm like wait I don't have an owl
[37:36]so that morning I walk outside and I get a call for my husband he's away and he's like oh my god
[37:42]we have an owl in the owl box so I go over and I stare up and there is the cutest chubby little
[37:49]furry face of this owl and I was like oh like that's a sign that's a sign I run inside I look at my
[37:56]phone and there in my inbox is the endorsement from Laura Lynn Jackson and then I call my co-author
[38:02]sorry to tell her I'm like oh my god I just walked outside there's an owl there's the endorsement
[38:07]she came in it's a sign and she goes Kate do you know what today is and I said what she said it's Cassie's
[38:12]birthday her sister who sends her signs of owls I was like you can't make that up now I'm speechless
[38:23]no one has questions I'm more sign stories okay can I tell one more sign story
[38:42]and then they have more questions okay good we could go all night's of a sorry but last last
[38:48]sign story so I my life mantra is faith over fear the idea of we are living our life's purpose no
[38:54]matter what's happening we're on the path we're meant to be and that's very hard sometimes but
[38:59]for me during every surgery penny had I post it's around the house faith over fear faith over fear
[39:06]and so also as a side note we have a 1983 wag in your woody in our driveway it's the car my kids
[39:13]loved the most growing up so I was in Dallas a couple weeks ago and I was running through this
[39:18]neighborhood to Highland Park and I go around the corner and I look in the driveway and they're
[39:24]sitting in the driveway is my exact same car of 1983 green woody wag in air I'm going to lift
[39:32]at the license plate faith over fear on a New York license plate I'm from New York in Dallas I was
[39:40]like am I getting pumped right now well I'm open to them because then I you know I looked at it
[39:48]and I was like hi Penn and I kept running and it was so nice to feel like they're with us
[39:54]and they show up do you ever I mean right I hate to say you're in the you're in the business of
[40:00]you're in the business of Penny.
[40:01]Basically, right here in the business of Penny.
[40:03]Yeah.
[40:05]Is that ever get exhausting to you or do you ever think
[40:07]or is that just keep you close to her?
[40:09]It gives me close to her.
[40:11]And I think for our boys, it's, you know,
[40:14]and for our friends and Penny's girlfriends
[40:17]who had never had lost.
[40:18]I think everyone's so proud, you know,
[40:20]we of what we're doing and how we're helping others.
[40:24]I mean, I get tech texts and DMs all the time
[40:27]from other NF warriors,
[40:29]who say thank you for giving us hope
[40:32]that we will find a cure for NF.
[40:35]And so it just keeps us fueled and keeps us connected.
[40:40]And I don't, when I say business of Penny,
[40:42]I mean, no, no, no, no, I get that world all the time.
[40:46]All the time.
[40:47]A lot of time, grievers like to kind of escape
[40:49]or take a break and push it down
[40:51]or do something where they're not reminded.
[40:54]Yeah.
[40:54]But you have chosen bravely every day to be with Penny.
[40:59]Like these four work with Penny.
[41:01]Oh my gosh, she's my partner.
[41:02]Like truly I said, last night again,
[41:05]another sign story, sorry.
[41:06]But I was opening my garment bag
[41:08]and I was unzipped it on top of the bed
[41:11]and there's a penny sitting in it,
[41:13]like just staring at me.
[41:15]So I feel like we're on this journey together
[41:18]and I know my mom lived her life's purpose
[41:22]and she was not meant to get sick and old
[41:24]and she lived every day to the fullest
[41:27]to inspire me to do that.
[41:29]And Penny lived so bravely to inspire me
[41:33]to keep moving forward to hopefully inspire others
[41:36]that there's a different path.
[41:37]Tremendous inspiration.
[41:39]I know the path you walked, it is so very difficult.
[41:42]And you do it with such grace.
[41:44]And like I said, face forward and you're inspiring
[41:47]and you give us all hope.
[41:49]That's my hope.
[41:50]And look at you and what you're doing,
[41:51]and my hope is for you all to see two mothers
[41:54]who are sitting here who could have stayed in bed
[41:57]with the covers over their head.
[41:58]I do sometimes.
[41:59]Well, that's okay.
[42:00]Yeah.
[42:01]That's okay though.
[42:03]And that's a loud.
[42:04]But what would our kids want us to do?
[42:07]You know?
[42:08]It's true.
[42:09]And Lorelyn Jackson told me
[42:10]that we, our kids brought us together
[42:13]which is the most incredible thing
[42:15]and that makes me so proud.
[42:17]So I'm going to share one story about Lorelyn Jackson
[42:19]which I haven't told you because I kind of wanted
[42:21]to do in front of everybody.
[42:22]Yeah.
[42:23]I had a reading with Lorelyn Jackson
[42:24]and nothing made sense.
[42:26]And I wrote everything down.
[42:28]I wrote everything down.
[42:29]I wrote everything down.
[42:29]Some things made sense.
[42:31]And lately I've been going back to reread it.
[42:35]And some, I'm like, oh my gosh.
[42:36]Wow, yes, I get that.
[42:38]I get that.
[42:39]Yes.
[42:39]So I went back and I reread it
[42:41]and butterfly, butterfly, butterfly, butterflies.
[42:45]And I wrote it like five times.
[42:47]And I don't remember her telling me about it.
[42:50]But she said just take notes.
[42:51]So I just kept taking notes.
[42:52]And so when I went back and read it the other,
[42:54]maybe a week ago, I was like,
[42:56]I can't wait to talk eight this time.
[42:57]I'm like, oh, I don't know.
[43:00]I don't know.
[43:01]There's no coincidences, right?
[43:02]There's no coincidences.
[43:04]Again, like it's so beautiful
[43:06]but we have to keep our eyes open to it
[43:08]and be willing to ask for the signs
[43:12]and imagine a different path forward.
[43:16]Have you really hogs your time?
[43:17]Oh, good.
[43:18]No, we have a question.
[43:18]Let's stop it open the door.
[43:19]Maybe the, a little layer.
[43:23]It feels a little high.
[43:25]Thanks, boy.
[43:25]Oh, oh, yeah.
[43:27]This is going to be relevant.
[43:29]So I just dropped my son at college
[43:32]and then he was one of Ron's best friends.
[43:35]Take a family's own brother.
[43:39]Is it painful or do you enjoy hearing stories
[43:43]of kids who live?
[43:44]I enjoy it because I had someone recently say to me,
[43:48]I think I told you the story.
[43:49]Someone said, as everyone's talking about the prom
[43:52]and this and I had someone say,
[43:55]are you sad, Penny's not going to the prom?
[43:57]And my answer was, Penny's bigger than the prom.
[44:01]Penny's wings are spreading so wide
[44:03]and look at all the people she's helping
[44:06]and look at what Jen is doing in bronze legacy
[44:10]and his honor and look at prom.
[44:12]He's a celebrity.
[44:14]So he's bigger.
[44:15]He's bigger than the prom.
[44:17]He's bigger.
[44:17]So for me, I want people to talk about it
[44:21]because I want to celebrate them.
[44:25]And so I think that's, as we said,
[44:28]it's like you're better off talking about that
[44:31]than not saying anything at all.
[44:33]And I definitely feel like I have a long recovery
[44:36]that I feel that it's, you know, I can't help, right?
[44:42]No, it's easier.
[44:43]Yeah, but so is bronze.
[44:45]Bronze here in a big way.
[44:47]And I said to Jen, I feel bronze.
[44:50]Like that's where there's no coincidences
[44:52]that when we connected, I walked out
[44:54]and I was walking with my dogs
[44:56]and like the energy of the sunshine.
[45:00]I was like, hyper on, I'm just saying it's like a second death if you lose touch with all of
[45:08]those pieces up with your child. So a by lose touch with any of these kids that grow up with
[45:14]bronze, that's another death totally. It's so sad that we love it. It's hard at the same time,
[45:21]at the same time it's joy and grief. But you can hold joy and grief in the same space,
[45:27]and I say, yeah. Because that's why it was so critical for me to keep Penny's girlfriends
[45:35]close because I was like, I need them as much as they need me because they even say they're like,
[45:41]every time we're with you, we feel penny. I'm like, well, when I'm with you, I feel penny. So
[45:47]it's like a mutual thing. You had a question. I was just wondering if you could talk a little bit more
[45:53]about the faith over fear and I just think in this world, we live in there is so much fear
[45:59]and the idea is so high. That's everyday feels like a lot of pain. So what I will tell you and that
[46:09]is I've started this practice which is gratitude because I learned that you anxiety and gratitude
[46:18]can't be held in the same thought bubble because gratitude always wins. So if you start your
[46:23]day, every day with things you're grateful for, that overtakes the anxiety and the fear. And so
[46:31]in the news with everything going on with everything, it can be so overwhelming. But if you stop
[46:36]and you literally tell yourself, write it down, say it out loud. What are you grateful for?
[46:42]That overtakes this anxiety and fear. And for me, the idea of faith over fear was also
[46:48]I can control only what I can control, which are my thoughts. And so if I feel like things are
[46:54]getting out of control, a go to a body of water, it calms me down immediately and I start to
[46:59]think about what I'm grateful for. And then all of a sudden things start to be put into perspective
[47:04]and I'm like, okay, things are happening the way it's meant to be and I have to faith knowing that.
[47:11]Try the gratitude because that has been a huge game changer for me. Like that five minute journal,
[47:18]I do the five minute journal. I don't know if anyone's heard of that. But that's really beautiful
[47:22]way to start the day and gratitude starting the day, not the end. It's setting the foundation
[47:27]for the rest of your day. That's so funny. The five minute journal from me usually turns into like
[47:32]hours of work. For the first time to say that goes nowhere or somewhere. But that's the
[47:38]writer in you versus me where I'm like, I'm grateful for this. But it's a beautiful way to start
[47:45]the day. Just so that's the intention for the day. Yeah.
[47:48]So now do you differentiate between different people's grief, meaning, you know, like an
[47:54]only barber dying in different styles child. And the angle I think, especially in your case,
[48:02]where it was a, like an external source. Yeah. Well,
[48:09]do you get with that angle? Every grief is different, which is why I'm saying there's
[48:15]these are the actions that you take for your grief. This is not cookie cutter. But what is
[48:21]helpful are these actions can be applied to? I've had so many people said, you know, my,
[48:26]my father is dementia. So I am grieving the life he had before he's even left us. But I still believe
[48:33]like honor him, connect with people, reach out to your sunshine people. I talk about sunshine people
[48:39]in the book, the people who lift you up. Your shower people I refer to as the ones who drain
[48:45]your energy. And we know when you're grieving, like you can barely take care of your loved one,
[48:50]but you need to take care of yourself. So protecting your energy by reaching out to the people who
[48:55]bring you energy and lift you up. So every grief is different, but you still connections important
[49:03]honoring your loved one and dementia, I still say like, do the things your loved one loves,
[49:09]create that love cocoon for them while they're going through this. They don't want to be sitting
[49:13]in a dark room, play the music they love, right? You know, light the candles they love. And yeah,
[49:20]every, every loss is different, whether it's someone who's taken their life, someone who's been
[49:24]tragically killed my mother who was in a car accident, you still apply these same for the different
[49:31]griefs that you're going through. Let me say it's all relative to like the worst thing that's
[49:35]ever happened to you in your life is that your cat died. Yeah. That feels really heavy. Yeah, no,
[49:40]it's true. And it's just, it's all relative. Yeah. Yeah. That's true. I mean, we lost our 14 year old lab.
[49:48]We were talking to someone that's talking about dogs. Like that crushed me, but it still was
[49:54]important to make sure we as a family were doing things together. You know, and we were talking about
[50:00]them and sharing the memories like yeah it's all relative I think that's a good
[50:04]way of putting it. Yeah.
[50:06]Have you found, and you don't have to answer this against you first all night?
[50:10]No, I answer everything. I'm an open book. I can say all night. I'm an open book.
[50:15]Yeah. I'm a hugger. I'm an open book. Have you found at any point that you and your husband
[50:25]or you and your kids were at such a different space or place in your
[50:29]grief that it was hard for you to come together? Yeah. Well, I know you talk
[50:34]about this. For my family, we approach it in different ways. I'm an extrovert, my
[50:40]husband's more of an introvert. I was into the signs. He found actually someone
[50:45]did sent him books. He's more into the science, which I think this is your husband as well.
[50:51]where Chad needed evidence. It was hard for him to understand where Penny was and someone
[51:01]had sent him books on near-death experiences, which was fascinating because he related
[51:07]so much to that and with story after story of people saying talking about these near-death
[51:13]experiences, that actually brought him comfort to have a sense of where Penny was.
[51:20]So that was different in that sense. I think for my boys, again, because they had never
[51:26]been through this loss, it was critical for me to bring them together to kind of work
[51:32]through this in the ways that I talk about. I think the biggest sign of grief and depression
[51:41]is isolation because when we're talking about how grief is so isolating and destabilizing
[51:47]and messy, that goes back to how critical connection is and support. So I think you
[51:53]start there and then if people choose to look for the signs, let them do that. If they
[51:59]don't, then that's their path.
[52:01]Okay.
[52:03]Okay. Okay. No, that's okay. We had another question. Over here, someone.
[52:09]I didn't have a question. Yeah.
[52:10]I was more or less a question. I was curious about your son than whether you're
[52:14]principles about getting through grief and resonated with them or a paper on their own.
[52:20]No, this is for all ages. I mean, this is again because there's no guidebook out there.
[52:27]It's like with anything in life, like you get pregnant. There's the what to expect
[52:31]when you're expecting, what how to move through marriage, how to move through divorce.
[52:36]All of these guidebooks, there's no guidebook to grief that's like, here's some tools.
[52:41]So for my boys, it was important for me to be like, okay, you know, keep your eyes open
[52:49]for signs from Penny. She is still with us. And you know, my youngest was 13 years old
[52:55]and Penny was his older sister. And so she was such a role model him.
[53:00]And same thing for Henry who is 22 now.
[53:04]So keeping open to the signs was important for them.
[53:07]Connection was important. Having their friends supporting them.
[53:11]Again, moving was important.
[53:14]And you know, certainly turning pain into purpose because they were a part of
[53:19]something bigger than themselves. And I think that idea for any age is important.
[53:24]What do you do that's bigger than yourself? How do you help others in a way that gets you
[53:29]out of your own head and makes an impact to help others?
[53:33]So yeah, I think this is applicable for all ages.
[53:37]Yes.
[53:39]So her son, Kate gave them space to process it themselves.
[53:47]Yeah.
[53:48]They didn't come to her space at the same time.
[53:52]Yeah, neither in child. No.
[53:54]And they did. Yeah.
[53:55]You guys can tell it's a selfless and it was so positive.
[54:01]At the same time that she's breathing, but she supported them and gave me space to get them.
[54:06]Yeah.
[54:07]And they're there.
[54:08]Totally. And I.
[54:10]Yeah.
[54:11]It's very, I want to hear from her.
[54:13]Father Beagle, who I'm very close with, who's a really cool priest.
[54:16]He's not, you know, like an old crusty guy.
[54:18]Yeah.
[54:19]Yeah.
[54:20]He actually was, he was close to Brown, but he told me, don't touch the iron.
[54:25]Don't touch the stove when it's hot.
[54:27]Because I said my daughter is just not.
[54:29]She's not like, we're talking about any of these things with me.
[54:33]Yeah.
[54:34]Right.
[54:35]She says she's just going.
[54:36]And he's like, you know, listen.
[54:37]Yeah.
[54:38]Yeah.
[54:39]When she's pulled off, she'll come to you.
[54:41]Yes.
[54:42]That's such an incredible way of saying it and such incredible advice.
[54:46]And I think that's true.
[54:47]Like Henry, you know, he did it his own path.
[54:50]But he I think by just seeing how we were moving forward, he kind of came around in that sense.
[54:57]And he knew how important it was.
[55:00]to connect and be together and to do this together.
[55:04]So thank you all for being here.
[55:07]And now it's such a great item.
[55:11]Thank you very much, and you're amazing.
[55:16]Oh, thank you.
[55:19]What a gift.
[55:19]What a gift.
[55:20]She's such a gift.
[55:21]Do you want a picture of us?
[55:22]Oh, thank you.
[55:23]You got a lovely child.
[55:28]Ah, thank you.
[55:29]So hopefully, and also just as a side note, high story.
[55:35]I think share this book with anyone you
[55:38]feel like needs it.
[55:39]I wanted to get this into this many hands as possible.
[55:42]I needed this when it happened to me.
[55:45]And this was the book I needed.
[55:46]And this is why, to your question, of why I did this,
[55:48]because I wanted this book.
[55:50]And my hope is it's going to help a lot of people
[55:52]imagine a different time.
[55:53]And it's a good reminder, too.
[55:54]And it's a good reminder how to leave your life
[55:56]and to go back to different chapters.
[56:00]Yeah.
[56:01]And just to move for timeless, the other thing
[56:03]is I'm going to make a plug for Penny's Flight Foundation.
[56:05]You have cards on your chair.
[56:07]Those are all Penny's paintings.
[56:09]Penny was an artist.
[56:11]And so spread your ring, shine your light.
[56:13]You can follow Penny's flight.
[56:14]If anyone is in where Beverly Hills tomorrow for Veronica
[56:18]Beard gives back initiative, we've
[56:20]had all these brands giving back to Penny's flight.
[56:23]So I will be there.
[56:24]So come shop, see me support.
[56:27]And it gives back to Penny's flight.
[56:28]So thank you guys so much.
[56:30]And the purple bracelet is glow in the dark.
[56:33]And if you want more, we have more.
[56:34]You can give them to your kids.
[56:36]Thank you so much.
[56:36]Thank you all so much.
[56:38]And I get just thank you.
[56:39]You're just amazing.
[56:42]And amazing.
[56:42]The kids brought us together.
[56:44]I'm going to sign.
[56:45]Yeah.
[56:46]I'm going to sign books.
[56:47]So come, come, I'll sign them.
[56:51]If anyone wants them.
[56:52]Thank you so happy to meet you.