Author Event! Beth Ricanati, MD with Lori Gottlieb
[0:00]Beth contacted me eight years ago when her first book was coming out, and she said,
[0:08]I have this book coming out and it has something to do with Hala, and I was like, what?
[0:13]And it turned out that it was a beautiful memoir that started this whole journey that led
[0:20]to the book we'll be talking about tonight.
[0:23]So maybe we could start by having you tell us how this whole Hala journey began.
[0:30]So imagine 18 years ago, I was working at the Cleveland Clinic, and we have three children,
[0:37]one of whom is here tonight, thank you Eli, shout out, and the kids were little.
[0:44]I was working, I will speak louder, sorry.
[0:49]The kids were little and I was working a lot at the Cleveland Clinic, and it was too much
[0:56]for me.
[0:57]And a girlfriend of mine at the Jewish New Year suggested that I make Hala.
[1:02]And Hala is the bread that we have on Friday nights for Shabbat, it's the bread we have for
[1:08]holidays, I didn't know anybody who actually made Hala, I had never made Hala, I didn't
[1:13]know anything about yeast, the whole thing seemed ridiculous.
[1:17]And my friend Abby said, no, no, no, give it a shot, just try.
[1:23]and at the risk of some hyperbole, it changed my life.
[1:27]Because I just stopped, and I stood at the kitchen counter, we lived in Cleveland then.
[1:32]And there I was, like trying to mix flour and sugar and yeast, and I didn't appreciate
[1:41]before then the power of just stopping.
[1:49]So you started this ritual, you incorporated it into your life.
[1:56]And then in the meantime, your kids started growing, you moved to Los Angeles, you continued
[2:02]the practice, and then you called me, and said I'm writing a book.
[2:07]And so how did you get from that first Hala to the first book?
[2:11]Yes, it's a bit of a leap, because I had never thought I was going to write a book.
[2:18]But the greatest thing happened, the more I made the bread, the more lessons I learned
[2:23]for myself.
[2:25]And I felt so much better that I thought, okay, I'm not the only stressed out mom on
[2:29]the block.
[2:30]And if what is helping me has worked, then maybe I could share that.
[2:37]And so I attempted, I began the journey of learning how to write a book.
[2:42]And that's what became my memoir eight years ago, rated.
[2:47]And what were some of the lessons from that book?
[2:52]Because I know this book is different and we're going to talk about what you're going
[2:56]to get from this book that we don't have in the first book.
[2:59]But tell us a little bit about some of the things that you discovered from that experience
[3:05]that you shared in the first book.
[3:07]So the more I made Hala on Fridays, the more I learned just how much I didn't know.
[3:13]And for example, I'm not a very patient person.
[3:17]I'm still not very patient, but I'm working on it.
[3:20]And the great thing about making Hala is you have an opportunity, if you'd like, to try
[3:25]and make it every Friday.
[3:26]So I get this practice every Friday.
[3:30]And to make Hala, you have to use yeast.
[3:33]And I had never worked with yeast.
[3:35]This was a whole new thing.
[3:37]And there are lots of kinds of yeast, I didn't know that either.
[3:40]But I learned.
[3:41]And for this recipe, it proves separately in a separate bowl.
[3:47]And I learned that you have to wait.
[3:50]You can't just pour the yeast in and pour the sugar in and add some water and keep going
[3:55]on.
[3:56]You have to wait.
[3:57]And one of the best things about that practice I learned is you can take it from the
[4:01]kitchen and you can take it out of the kitchen.
[4:05]So I could practice being patient when I was in clinic and the computer didn't work.
[4:12]I could practice being patient when I was stuck on the 405.
[4:17]I could practice all these times during the week.
[4:21]Because on Fridays, I had this opportunity every week to be reminded, for example.
[4:28]Right.
[4:29]And in the me, in the interim of those eight years and where we are now, so you left that
[4:34]medical practice, you're volunteering once a week at Venice Family Clinic, shout out
[4:41]to the woman I work with, Kim.
[4:43]Thank you.
[4:44]Yay, Kim.
[4:45]Hello.
[4:46]And Dr. Puneysen.
[4:48]And so you decided to write a second book surrounding this journey of what, of how...
[5:00]this ritual has really changed your life. And so tell us about what is new in this book.
[5:06]Yes. So the greatest thing happened after the first book,
[5:11]it sounds weird to say this, but when COVID happened, the silver lining for me was that I began to
[5:17]conduct workshops. I had thought I would be traveling to do more traditional book talks when the
[5:24]first book came out and I started doing that. But then with COVID and when we were at home,
[5:30]I thanks to Eli and his siblings discovered how I could open my laptop and leave workshops
[5:38]from my kitchen. And so that opened up a whole new world to me. And in the process of leading
[5:45]these workshops, that then of course fortunately became back in person, became live. As I traveled
[5:51]around the country, it was so surprising to me to stop and listen and to listen to the participants
[6:03]talk amongst themselves and to watch them and to start to realize that what had worked for me
[6:10]was working for them. And I wanted to learn more about that and why that was so. And the more I
[6:18]started digging into that, I began to see a framework that I could put together in what has become
[6:24]the graded prescription. The second book. So, you know, I think during COVID, everyone,
[6:32]the people online and everywhere you went or where you looked because we were all trapped,
[6:37]was baking bread. Yes, that was kind of a thing that people did. They found it very relaxing.
[6:43]It just became this trend, a tattoo had already discovered that. Do you feel like
[6:52]with this book that you're saying to people, you know, not everybody is Jewish,
[6:56]not everybody wants to make necessarily call out, but you can. You don't have to be Jewish to make
[7:01]call out. But people just, they like the experience of what are some of the things that
[7:07]let's say people, you know, maybe, you know, are not doing it for a shabbat. They're not
[7:13]Jewish. They're not, you know, there's all kinds of reasons people are baking bread. It doesn't
[7:17]even have to be hala. Tell us about what the experience of it and what you think is kind of universal
[7:23]for people. I think you've hit it perfectly because what's universal is not so much the making of
[7:29]the hala. That's the ritual I've chosen. But I think that all of us in this room need to have a
[7:35]ritual and it can be whatever you want. Maybe you garden and maybe you do pottery and maybe you knit.
[7:42]I think that's what's key is that small acts done repeatedly with intention is what I'm trying to
[7:50]get across. I happen to do make hala. And I think it's a great vehicle for explaining all this.
[7:56]But whether we all leave here in make hala isn't the crux of the crux of it.
[8:05]Right. So yeah, what I love about the book is that you can take the kind of lessons and you
[8:11]frame it as prescriptions from sort of not through. Right. And from a wellness perspective.
[8:18]And, you know, but we can apply it to kind of anything that works for us. So can you talk a
[8:23]little bit about what some of these principles are that you write about. So there's seven practices
[8:28]in the book. They're not necessarily in any particular order. And with that said, the first one
[8:35]is act with intention. So I'll talk about that for a minute because I think that one actually
[8:40]is really important. And I've, I specifically put that one first. There's not necessarily an order
[8:46]to all of the practices. Which I also like because I don't like being quite so in a box.
[8:54]But it's important to be me. There's a seat right there. Right there.
[9:02]It's important to set intentions when we do things. And it's important to say that out loud.
[9:11]And one of the things that I've learned making hala is that at the beginning, when I start
[9:16]before I make it, I set an intention. And what I love about that is that I've learned to do that
[9:22]outside of the kitchen. I take that with me. So and you can set intentions for all kinds of things
[9:28]that you do. And it elevates the experience. What's an example of an intention you might set?
[9:33]I might set, for example, making hala in the merit of somebody I know who's not well that week.
[9:39]Or I might set when the kids were little, I wouldn't be about maybe they'd studied for a test
[9:44]or something like that. Sometimes it's a bit more global. I did a workshop with a group of women
[9:50]the week that Ruth Bader Ginsburg passed away. And it was a virtual workshop. And they unmuted
[9:55]themselves and started talking about all the ways that her some of her.
[10:00]legal decisions had impacted their lives.
[10:01]So it can be from, you know, little to, to big.
[10:05]But I think what's really important is that you say it out loud.
[10:08]We think a lot of thoughts, right?
[10:12]We all think a lot of thoughts.
[10:13]But when you say it, when you articulate it out loud,
[10:16]it's incredible what can happen.
[10:21]Can you talk a little bit about how you, you know,
[10:23]in the book you, um, you kind of braid in to use a hall of metaphor.
[10:28]Um, you kind of braid in, um, principles from, from neuroscience
[10:34]and from what you know from your medical background.
[10:37]Can you talk about, you know, you know, how they apply to this process?
[10:43]Yes.
[10:43]Yes.
[10:44]So we talked about it on our walks and I want you to share it with everybody.
[10:47]I'm obsessed with lifestyle medicine.
[10:49]Um, and when I talk about lifestyle medicine,
[10:51]I mean things like exercise and stress management and the food that we eat,
[10:56]how we sleep, things like that.
[10:58]And I'm also obsessed with this, so I write about that in the book a lot.
[11:02]And I'm also obsessed with the idea of neuroplasticity.
[11:05]So, and some of you are nodding your head.
[11:07]So there's a researcher up at Stanford who first introduced me to this concept
[11:11]of neuroplasticity, Carol Dweck.
[11:13]And she writes about this idea that our ideas are not fixed, right?
[11:18]We can change.
[11:20]And I love that.
[11:21]I love that there's this idea that I wasn't a baker yet.
[11:26]But I became one, you know, I was a stressed out person and now I'm less stressed.
[11:32]Like, we can change, we can grow.
[11:35]And I get to see that every week.
[11:37]Sometimes I make holla and it's fabulous.
[11:42]And sometimes it's not.
[11:44]And does your family share that with you or how do you know when it's not?
[11:49]Well, should I put you on the spot?
[11:52]No, I just do you know.
[11:54]I know.
[11:54]Mm-hmm.
[11:55]You just know.
[11:56]Like, yeah, I know.
[11:59]And so, and so what happens when, you know, like what is different?
[12:02]How, like, when it's not what happened, what didn't go well?
[12:07]Do you ever know where you just never know?
[12:09]Is it kind of mysterious that you just never know?
[12:11]No, because I can feel it now.
[12:13]But the, my biggest example I actually do, I'll never forget this.
[12:18]It's just seared in my mind.
[12:20]It was horrible.
[12:21]I made my first round holla.
[12:22]So it is customary at the Jewish New Year to make round holla.
[12:27]Normally, I make it like this.
[12:28]And someone's going to win this later.
[12:31]Normally, I make that.
[12:32]But, but I made my first round holla and I didn't know,
[12:35]because I'm not really a baker except for holla.
[12:39]I didn't know that you'd need to check the internal temperature.
[12:43]So it looked gorgeous.
[12:45]And we had a big shabot that night and we had somebody at it.
[12:47]I really wanted to impress.
[12:50]Not so good.
[12:51]And we, that was not your intention.
[12:53]No, it was your, it was in attention, but not the one.
[12:56]And not a very proud moment.
[12:58]And anyway, when we took apart, we ripped the holla, it was raw inside.
[13:04]So that was, that wasn't good.
[13:06]And to take away the takeaway was now I use a thermometer.
[13:10]But I was expecting the takeaway was, I can do a failure.
[13:14]Exactly, no, no, no.
[13:15]We, we adapted.
[13:17]Okay, did.
[13:18]Yes, we got through.
[13:20]I got through.
[13:21]But I do think about it.
[13:24]So next book.
[13:26]Tell us, I know you'd do so many of these workshops.
[13:28]You've done like a hundred around the country.
[13:31]Tell us some of the stories that have really touched you from these experiences
[13:37]with these strangers from all over.
[13:39]Yeah, well, one of my favorite was here in L.A.
[13:45]And I have Jillian to thank Ford in the back.
[13:47]I worked with a group of students at a Catholic high school in the valley.
[13:52]So just for starters, I love that.
[13:54]They have a Jewish student group at a Catholic high school.
[13:57]How cool is that?
[13:59]So we do the workshop.
[14:01]It's over-subscribed because not only are the Jewish kids coming, but some of the other
[14:05]students want to come to, I love that.
[14:07]But then the best part was that one of the boys who was there thought that, well,
[14:15]he was doing a community service project with the North Hollywood Interfaith Food Bank.
[14:21]And he thought to have the kids bring back the next day.
[14:24]So the recipe makes two this size.
[14:27]So all the kids brought one back the next day.
[14:31]They wrapped them up and they donated them to the North Hollywood Food Bank.
[14:37]So here you have a Catholic school with Jewish kids and now non-Jewish kids making
[14:43]holla together and donating it.
[14:47]I mean, it doesn't get any better than that in my book.
[14:51]And I think that's part of what you talk about in the book, too, is this sense of community.
[14:55]So it's something that you can do when you're kitchen.
[14:58]You can set the intention.
[15:00]sort of the tactile experience.
[15:01]You're using a different, not being so in your head.
[15:07]And so there's that aspect that's sort of personal.
[15:10]And then there's the kind of sharing part of it.
[15:13]Can you talk a little bit about that?
[15:15]Yeah.
[15:16]So a front of us calls that hala diplomacy.
[15:19]And I've have sconded with the term, with his permission.
[15:21]And it's one of the practices.
[15:23]Hala diplomacy is when we share, when we give.
[15:27]So every week, I make at least two.
[15:30]And I give at least one away.
[15:32]And I encourage people to do that.
[15:36]You might be the winner.
[15:38]We'll see shortly.
[15:39]He'll be added to the list, Amy.
[15:41]But you might win this one, too.
[15:43]But yeah, so there's something really
[15:45]wonderful about sharing.
[15:47]And to exercise this muscle by doing this every week,
[15:51]it just becomes second nature, which is really nice.
[15:55]Yeah.
[15:55]So what's interesting is you've been a doctor.
[16:00]You have this medical background.
[16:02]But it's almost like making the hala and what it entails
[16:09]is medicinal.
[16:11]And I wonder if you can, I don't think people think of it
[16:14]that way.
[16:15]And I think that's what you're talking about in your book.
[16:18]Can you talk a little bit more about the connection
[16:20]between those two things?
[16:22]Like how is it medicinal?
[16:26]One way that it's medicinal is through stress management.
[16:30]And I write a lot about this.
[16:31]Because it's a really stressful time right now.
[16:35]I mean, I would argue that it's probably one of the most
[16:38]stressful times we've been living in.
[16:40]And we have to have ways to manage our stress.
[16:44]When we're stressed and we get sick, it's hard to get well.
[16:50]And when we are stressed and we have to have ways
[16:57]to manage our stress.
[16:59]So I think a good way to do that is to find ways
[17:04]to feel more grounded.
[17:05]And for me, making hala is a tactile experience.
[17:08]I use my hands.
[17:09]I don't use a bread machine.
[17:10]You can, by the way, there's no.
[17:12]But I use my hands.
[17:14]And I mix the dough and I knead the dough.
[17:17]And the studies show that when you pursue tactile endeavors,
[17:23]such as making hala, such as knitting or pottery
[17:26]or working in the garden or filling the blank,
[17:30]it's a great way to feel more present really quickly
[17:33]and to feel more grounded.
[17:35]And when you do these activities in a group,
[17:38]so when I do these workshops, for example, and we're a group,
[17:42]oftentimes people don't know each other in the group
[17:44]where they know somebody.
[17:45]But it's an immediate way to form connection and community.
[17:50]And we need that.
[17:51]We need that for our health and well-being.
[17:53]And there's all kinds of studies about that.
[17:56]And so I think it's important to find ways to whatever
[18:01]it may be, but to find a way to manage your stress.
[18:06]And a totally different note.
[18:08]How did your family feel when you started this whole hala
[18:11]thing?
[18:11]Did they think you were crazy?
[18:12]Did they love having homemade hala all the time?
[18:15]What was their reaction to it?
[18:17]I think they liked having homemade hala all the time.
[18:22]Actually, what was really fun was we
[18:23]started having fried in a dinner, which we had not been having.
[18:25]And so it was really fun to have their friends over
[18:28]and to have an anchor in the week.
[18:32]So I think it worked out well.
[18:35]We're going to be raffling off this hala momentarily.
[18:39]And we're going to be taking your questions.
[18:40]But before we do that, I'm wondering if there
[18:42]are maybe one or two things that you
[18:46]would like to leave people with, without giving away
[18:48]everything in the book, but just for them to think about
[18:51]as we end this discussion tonight.
[18:55]Yeah.
[18:56]I want you to think about something small in your life
[19:01]that you can do and bring a little more meaning to it.
[19:06]And maybe it's your morning cup of coffee,
[19:08]or maybe it's when you walk the dog, which for me
[19:10]is a routine, not a ritual.
[19:12]But maybe for you, it's your ritual.
[19:14]But find something.
[19:16]And because small things have immense power
[19:20]and done repeatedly can be really impactful.
[19:25]And the difference between a routine,
[19:27]I think that was really interesting what you said.
[19:28]The difference between a routine and a ritual to you
[19:31]is a ritual is something that is more elevated.
[19:36]And I ascribe significance to it.
[19:39]So when I make call-up, for example,
[19:41]I carve out time on Friday.
[19:43]And I set out the ingredients.
[19:46]A routine for me is walking your dog.
[19:50]I'm not paying attention.
[19:51]I'm calling my mom.
[19:52]I'm running a list through my head.
[19:56]It's something to, it's a chore.
[19:58]OK.
[20:00]And last thing, you know, you have written a lot about your own life in both of these books.
[20:07]And, you know, before that, you were not sharing, I think, in this very public way.
[20:13]Some of the things that were really difficult for you, what was that like as a new writer
[20:19]sharing a lot of, you know, times that you were struggling?
[20:22]Writing is a very vulnerable act, I think.
[20:33]But I think it's also a wonderful way to build a bridge and to share the human experience.
[20:41]I mean, one thing I really was struck in particular in my women's health clinic in Cleveland.
[20:47]I had a really dreamy practice when I was in Cleveland.
[20:51]And it's amazing what people will share.
[20:54]And the more they share, the more you realize we're kind of all the same in many ways.
[21:01]And so it was easy in that sense because really, I'm sure that everything I shared
[21:07]with somebody's experience.
[21:11]Well, should we raffle off some holla now that we know how great it is for us?
[21:15]I think we should.
[21:16]Okay.
[21:22]Okay.
[21:23]So we'll start with questions while people are clutching their raffle tickets.
[21:29]Hoping.
[21:33]Do we have who I'm sorry?
[21:39]I'm an internist by training and I focused on women's health.
[21:46]Although I take our mentor now.
[21:51]And he yep in the back.
[21:53]How is that your first book open and awesome?
[21:56]I wonder how writing these books has changed you.
[21:59]It changed a lot of people, but how are they changed you?
[22:05]I've been.
[22:05]It has altered my life 180 degrees.
[22:09]Yeah, I thought I'd still be in clinic being a traditional doctor.
[22:14]And I'm as far from that now as I could be.
[22:17]What I've liked about it the most is it showed me how connected the world is.
[22:22]Because now I have people I know all over the world who have who are making holla or who have
[22:27]read braided or I've done a workshop with or it just makes the world feel particularly now in
[22:33]this sort of chaotic stressful time.
[22:36]It's really lovely to realize that how connected we all are.
[22:43]In the back, yes.
[22:49]My next in person workshop is not an LA.
[22:53]Unless you bring me into do one, but I'm traveling all fall.
[22:57]Yeah, sorry.
[22:59]I think it's in New York or it's in I'm not even sure where the next one is.
[23:04]Yeah, I think people are excited for the raffle.
[23:07]But any other questions before we before we get there?
[23:11]Bless you.
[23:13]Okay, well, we're going to do the raffle.
[23:18]Beth is going to do the honors.
[23:26]And now you want me to read.
[23:28]Yeah, I can read it.
[23:29]4, 4, 3, 1, 9, 4.
[23:33]We have any.
[23:40]Fabulous, but we have holla to eat too.
[23:44]Thank you.
[23:46]Thank you.
[23:47]We believe you.
[23:48]We don't need to.
[23:51]We don't need to verify.
[23:53]We don't think anyone's going to pretend.
[23:54]We send the bowl down a bowl.
[23:55]And so, okay, okay, well,
[24:01]thank you all.
[24:02]There will be holla up here and Beth will be signing her book.
[24:06]Thank you.
[24:07]Yeah, thank you.
[24:13]Let's go first day on holla to sample.
[25:00]You