Author Event! Josh Davis and Helen Johns
[0:00]because our children were at preschool together.
[0:02]We're both Santa Monica locals and very happy to be here at Zebis.
[0:06]Right.
[0:07]And it's an amazing preschool for saying what?
[0:09]Yes, right.
[0:10]Palaces.
[0:11]It's pretty cool though.
[0:12]Yeah.
[0:13]And I will read you Josh's bio.
[0:18]That's the view who are not familiar with.
[0:21]Wonderful, Josh.
[0:22]Josh, this is Josh's second book.
[0:24]A brief version of it.
[0:25]OK, I'll give you a brief book.
[0:26]OK.
[0:27]Because there's a lot to say about Josh,
[0:29]because you have many degrees.
[0:30]Exactly.
[0:31]Yes, I have.
[0:32]Thank you.
[0:34]Right.
[0:35]This is Josh's second book.
[0:38]He is his first book, too.
[0:40]Awesome hours was an international bestseller.
[0:43]He is a certified trainer and master practitioner of NLP.
[0:47]He has a PhD from Columbia University
[0:50]where he studied psychology and neuroscience.
[0:53]So he's pretty qualified to write a book about it.
[0:58]And Helen is not just a friend from preschool
[1:02]and from the neighborhood, but also
[1:05]is an accomplished actor.
[1:06]You should look her up on my BB and see on the great stuff.
[1:10]And she has such a lovely presence.
[1:13]Oh, thanks.
[1:14]Thank you.
[1:14]Yes.
[1:15]And so we thought it would be delightful
[1:17]if she would have the conversation.
[1:18]Zebis does a conversational way of doing this
[1:20]to make it a little more interesting.
[1:21]That's right.
[1:22]And so thankfully, she was interested in an available book.
[1:27]My accent makes me sound like I have a PhD.
[1:29]But only one of us.
[1:31]Only one of us does.
[1:34]Let's see.
[1:34]You can be the judge of this.
[1:36]You can be at the end of this.
[1:39]So do you want to start, Josh, by telling us
[1:42]a little bit about how you got to be interested in NLP?
[1:46]Sure.
[1:47]So just so that you know one thing that all of you know,
[1:53]that one thing that I was thinking about coming into this
[1:57]is like, well, I know a lot of you are here
[1:59]because just because you want to support me, which
[2:01]is awesome.
[2:02]And thank you.
[2:04]And that is a tremendous thing.
[2:07]That's worth it for writing a book in many ways.
[2:09]But there's a reason that I wrote the book also.
[2:15]That it's stuff that, and Kenny knows about my brother,
[2:20]he has had the same experience.
[2:22]We both grew up kind of as, we sometimes
[2:25]say over NLP natives, that our parents were some of the first
[2:29]people to learn about it.
[2:33]This whole set of tools that I didn't invent,
[2:38]they didn't even invent.
[2:39]But they're really great things.
[2:41]I didn't kind of perhaps my talent may be in teaching
[2:46]and making it simple, right?
[2:47]But it's not anything that I came up with.
[2:50]Really, what it goes back to is my mom in the late 70s.
[2:54]So they're both psychotherapists.
[2:56]Well, they're retired now, but they were in,
[2:57]and oh, and they're watching on my first time.
[3:00]Hi, hi, hi.
[3:02]So she wanted to learn from this man, Dr. Milton Erickson,
[3:08]who was a hypnotherapist.
[3:10]And he was doing amazing work that many people were just flying out
[3:14]to observe him work to try to copy what he did.
[3:16]And this is before there's any research on cognitive therapy or
[3:19]Gestalt.
[3:20]I mean, there's a little bit happening, but very little at that point,
[3:22]50 years ago.
[3:23]So she wanted to learn.
[3:25]And so she couldn't get out there to see Milton Erickson,
[3:29]because she had two little kids.
[3:31]So she hears about these guys, John Grinder,
[3:34]and Rick Brannler, they've created this thing called NLP.
[3:37]And they studied him, and they studied several other pioneers in psychotherapy.
[3:43]Because these people are doing amazing change work quickly.
[3:46]And what they were doing was looking at the form, not just the content,
[3:50]and they had this lens of linguistics.
[3:52]Because John Grinder was linguist, linguistics professor actually at UC Santa Cruz.
[4:00]So they're studying, they're looking at the patterns of communication.
[4:04]And they did an amazing job of really unpacking what actually matters to look at.
[4:09]And how you can very quickly dial in on what is in the way for someone.
[4:15]And they got the endorsement of the people they were studying.
[4:19]And so she'd bring my data on.
[4:21]And they took one of the first classes that was taught.
[4:24]And they became some of the first people training NLP.
[4:27]So they did that for 20 years.
[4:30]But they continued to use it in their practice.
[4:32]But so we kind of grew up around it, and they were very successful too.
[4:40]They would have frequently had a reputation for being able to help families,
[4:45]or couples, or individuals, where other people couldn't.
[4:48]And they would talk about how this is, we're using NLP.
[4:52]And they would talk about techniques at home.
[4:54]And so we didn't know what it was.
[4:56]I just knew that it was profound.
[5:00]useful and it wasn't until I was an adult on you know and they had stopped
[5:04]teaching it at that point that I actually wanted to find out more what it was and
[5:08]so this was 25-26 years ago that I started studying and then so yeah it's
[5:16]not a good answer. Yeah it's a good answer. So I guess at that point when you
[5:20]circled back to study it again did you realize that it was within you that
[5:25]you had grown up with it and that it was all in there. So there are some
[5:30]things that there's a set of ideas and this is in the first section of the book
[5:36]called the the NLP presuppositions like the set of beliefs that you're
[5:41]invited to presuppose are true in any kind of any situation and it's a
[5:46]presupposition you couldn't say like a hundred percent of the time it's
[5:48]always going to be true something like every behavior has a positive
[5:53]intention right well what about with someone's being me what about this
[5:58]I was like well actually yeah like what if what if you presume that to be
[6:02]true right so somebody's being difficult or asking a nasty
[6:06]question at an event right or or you know resisting your attempts to you
[6:11]know grow your company or you know whatever it may be if you allow yourself
[6:17]to pause and say there is some positive intention behind this
[6:22]then you will find one there is one they might be trying to get themselves
[6:28]to feel good about themselves they might be trying to have influence they
[6:31]might be trying to make friends they might even be trying to win over
[6:35]your respect they're just going about in a terrible way but once you know
[6:39]that you know then you can speak to that positive attention
[6:42]so there's a handful of these beliefs that was the part that
[6:46]just felt really natural okay because I think that a lot of those
[6:51]presuppositions were things that our parents had kind of
[6:56]taken the heart and so we kind of picked it up we modeled them
[6:59]I think that the tools and techniques that was all new stuff for me I mean
[7:04]I heard about it but I didn't you know it's yeah it's pretty new
[7:07]it's interesting we talked a bit about the way in which you use some of the
[7:12]tools that you you describe in your book within your family life
[7:16]and with your kids and especially interesting to me because that's
[7:19]how we met with our children and so much I think of
[7:25]modern parenting especially in California especially in the
[7:28]state is about meeting your children where they're at
[7:34]versus trying to sort of come in and tell them that they're doing the wrong
[7:39]thing and not not wishing to understand why they're doing it so
[7:43]I think what you're talking about if that's the way that you were
[7:46]raised and those were cool beliefs that were being past you 50 years ago that's
[7:51]seems like it's ahead of its time in a way given that
[7:56]it's really the focus of modern parenting so in my experience before I
[8:00]respond to that you know when you say modern parenting
[8:04]you're referring to stuff we like not the stuff right right my immediate
[8:08]circle of Instagram blasts so you know this is this is how to parent kindly
[8:13]right okay the things that we would create are good ideas
[8:17]so it is remarkable the number of things that I took for granted as
[8:23]parenting just observing my parents that have become
[8:27]more normal um and uh you know I think uh
[8:35]this idea of meeting your kids where they are right so that's
[8:39]this is one of this like central theme till here again and again from NLP
[8:43]is like you have to earn the right to influence so you
[8:48]one of the great ways to do that is you meet somebody where they are before you
[8:51]try to change their mind if they're angry join them in their anger
[8:56]right it's like yeah you're angry like and you don't have to say like I
[9:00]agree and it's justified all that but but yeah like if you try to just deny
[9:04]the anger then they're like yeah you don't get it right
[9:08]and uh or if they you know feel like they've been
[9:13]slighted or they feel or they think that you know this idea doesn't make
[9:17]sense or in politics right you know that like
[9:22]people have this whole set of beliefs about how things have to work
[9:26]right and the thing is with politics we can never actually know there's too
[9:30]many variables but we all dig into our beliefs
[9:33]right but so like if you actually want to convince somebody
[9:36]they try to find a way to meet them where they are they're
[9:40]you know they're they're they they they have a set of beliefs that they
[9:46]think makes sense right and if you just try to tell them they're bad or no
[9:50]good you're not getting anywhere right so and then with the kids so
[9:53]Rafa was smiling either because I just got him for because
[9:56]he's like wait what if you do
[9:58]what if he didn't track
[10:00]to sing on me all my life.
[10:01]So we'll find out.
[10:05]Yeah, I'm right.
[10:06]Yeah.
[10:07]Yeah.
[10:08]So yeah.
[10:09]So it's like Danielle and I, you know,
[10:14]we realized this all the time.
[10:16]Like, you know, we get frustrated.
[10:18]We get mad.
[10:18]We're like, we lose control.
[10:20]You know, I do.
[10:21]She never knows.
[10:23]And like, you know, and we don't behave how we want to.
[10:28]Right.
[10:28]But as the kids are not doing what we want,
[10:30]they're not getting out the door.
[10:31]They're not brushing teeth.
[10:32]They're not right.
[10:33]Common story.
[10:34]And then, but if we take a moment and join them where they are
[10:38]with that like, hyper energy, right?
[10:41]Or, you know,
[10:43]you use the example in the book of brushing brushing the teeth
[10:46]and children are not wanting to brush their teeth.
[10:48]And then being very excited about something else
[10:52]and meeting them in their excitement and turning it into,
[10:54]you got to brush your teeth really fast.
[10:55]Let's go.
[10:56]Let's go.
[10:57]Right.
[10:58]You were telling me that you, that you do something like that.
[11:00]We have a race at bedtime.
[11:03]My kids never want to get ready for bed.
[11:04]And it's always we when they're crazy with their crazy energy.
[11:10]We make it a race too.
[11:11]Can you get your pajamas on it 30 seconds?
[11:13]Can you, you know, it's a competition just for themselves to just
[11:17]but definitely, I don't realize that I'm using an outfit.
[11:20]That's one way we can do something.
[11:22]So we've kind of turned something that you didn't want to do
[11:24]into a competition either in yourself
[11:26]or against one of the others.
[11:27]And you typically rise to, I assume you can see what we're doing.
[11:30]But it can't typically be.
[11:31]You don't want to do that.
[11:32]Yeah.
[11:33]Right.
[11:33]That's what I think is a lot of times you,
[11:35]you can tell what's happening.
[11:36]Yeah.
[11:37]Like I'm what we would call an LPM mismatch or somebody who just
[11:43]like has to see the counterpoint and like just can't stop themselves
[11:47]from saying, look, here's a way that that doesn't hold, right?
[11:50]So if Danielle ever wants to get me on board quickly,
[11:54]she just has to tell me that I should not
[11:55]do something for us.
[11:58]Yes.
[11:59]And that makes sense.
[12:00]I was extremely motivated like 30 years or more ago.
[12:04]Like I had a back injury.
[12:06]And all right, sorry, I just realized there's a couple of people
[12:08]ahead and said hi to you.
[12:09]Yeah.
[12:09]You're fucking great.
[12:11]Oh, but you know, the doctor was like, it wasn't that limiting.
[12:16]But I was a disc thing.
[12:17]But he was like, well, you know, I mean, you'll never like swim
[12:19]butterfly, but you know, it'll be pretty much
[12:21]normal.
[12:22]And that was it.
[12:23]That was all it was like the perfect thing it could have said.
[12:25]Yeah.
[12:26]For me.
[12:27]Yeah.
[12:28]Maybe he maybe he was an L.P.
[12:30]an L.P.
[12:31]an L.P.
[12:32]You figured it out.
[12:33]Right.
[12:34]Got it.
[12:35]So you joked outside that if I, if I hold this, I can pretend to be
[12:42]Greg who is your co-author.
[12:45]Yeah.
[12:46]What was it like writing with somebody else this time around versus
[12:50]writing on your own the first time?
[12:54]So first of all, since none of you know, Greg, he is nothing
[13:01]like me in those anyway.
[13:03]And like the odds that the two of us would talk to each other,
[13:08]let alone that we would write together, you know, our long odds.
[13:11]Right.
[13:12]And, um, but I really credit Greg with he's just, you know, no
[13:18]ego interested in trying out new things.
[13:20]But you know, he's got this really rough accent.
[13:22]He's from Philly.
[13:23]He like, um, he's like, he looks like, he looks like a bulldog.
[13:28]And he's like, you know, he's six with three and shaved head.
[13:32]And you know, he's always got this look on his face.
[13:34]Hi, Greg.
[13:35]If you're watching.
[13:36]Yeah.
[13:37]Yeah.
[13:38]And he's like, um, it just, uh, it's just almost feel like
[13:43]different.
[13:44]He's a trial lawyer.
[13:45]And he's, it works like he should be a trial lawyer, you know,
[13:50]like, and I am not.
[13:52]And I don't really fit it in that.
[13:55]Um, but the two of us have taught trial lawyers together.
[13:59]And, uh, it's been great.
[14:01]It's been like, it's, you know, it's a really interesting world.
[14:04]But, um, but anyway, yeah, so Greg took took, uh, you know, one of my classes.
[14:09]So I was teaching a public speaking class as heavily influenced by NLP,
[14:13]how to really enjoy public speaking this, like, and, um, uh, and so
[14:18]Greg shows up to it and we're at a breakout and he tells me, he's
[14:23]basically, he said this idea for 10 years, he took study NLP and he applied
[14:28]it to all kinds of things to like, starting new businesses, which he's done
[14:31]several and well as to his law practice and, and he's just thinking,
[14:35]other people, I'm going to do the work I did.
[14:38]It's really complex stuff, but it's really useful.
[14:41]And he loves the way I was teaching.
[14:43]And so he said, Hey, you know, what do you think NLP for lawyers?
[14:48]That's like, I get it.
[14:50]Yeah.
[14:50]Like, let's translate it for a specific job.
[14:52]You don't have to become an expert.
[14:54]You don't know, like NLP for HR and I'll be for teachers and I'll be
[14:56]for parents.
[14:57]So right.
[14:58]And, um,
[15:00]it was missing. And so like, yeah, he just kind of like talked me into writing a book first
[15:07]and then like, you know, yeah, it's like, it's a communication skills. And he likes
[15:15]to say that like, I know the material and his job was to dumb it down, but that's not
[15:22]how I see it. I see it that, that his job was to think about what would be useful
[15:31]and to like, how to communicate to a whole audience, the whole kind of world that I wouldn't
[15:36]be talking to. And so then together we ended up honing in so much better on what to include
[15:44]for mental illness. I mean, we're talking about stuff drawn from like five different fields
[15:48]of psychotherapy. It's a tremendous amount of material. And how to talk about it and examples
[15:55]that have a huge range of things, it's just, it was a really nice way to do it. There's a lot of fun.
[16:02]And what you've distilled as many, many years of your experience into a book that anybody can pick
[16:07]up essentially. That's what we're trying to do. And now you've read it. So that's how, obviously, you
[16:14]have a conflict of interest here to say that. But, you know, it's a true thing. And I think we've
[16:21]succeeded at that too. I think you have also. I will say I was reading this on a trip that I was on
[16:27]with my husband and part way through the trip he entered into a pretty major work crisis. And one of
[16:32]the tools that I was immediately able to apply was something that you call if correct me if I'm
[16:40]wrong. If you knew then, what you knew then, which is a way of saying, it's all very well
[16:47]having information that you have now. But if you would known then only what you knew then, you
[16:52]would have made the same decision. So it's a kind of practice of, I think, self forgiveness.
[16:57]You couldn't have done anything. Compassion. Yeah. You did the best you knew how. That's another
[17:01]enough. You pre-subposition. Everybody behaves the best they know how given their mental model.
[17:06]And, you know, it's like, so if I knew them, and so people are always like, you know,
[17:12]a lot of times when you learn something new, you then beat yourself up, and you're embarrassed about
[17:16]what you did in the past. Right. And so I see like three people nodding. So it's just for you.
[17:22]It must be true. It does this. And you're a weirdo if you do that. Yeah. So, but the thing is,
[17:31]like, that gets in the way of progress. Because if you're going to beat yourself up every time you make
[17:34]progress, then you have a real disincentive to work on yourself. But if you just accept what is
[17:41]necessarily true, if I knew them, and I knew that I would do the same, then it becomes much easier
[17:46]to that. So that's another one of those reasons. But so you were actually able to apply it in a
[17:52]very common way. I was very instantly able to apply. And actually, as I was reading different
[17:56]chapters on different days, I would apply different tools. I'm not sure I got, I don't know if
[18:02]you knew that that was happening to him. But it was very useful in the moment. Yeah, that's right.
[18:07]That's right. So speaking of which, would you like to talk us through one of the tools from
[18:15]the book? Yeah, yeah. We thought it would be fun because they're really, you know, some personal
[18:19]benefit out of it. And after that, you can say, like, hey, I already feel like I got something. Who
[18:28]needs the book? Or whatever reaction you have. Let's say for the page 64. So what we've done
[18:37]in each chapter is we'll share either one of these presuppositions in the first section or in the
[18:44]second two sections at tool. And then, and we'll share the science that helps to make sense of it.
[18:50]It's important. So that's something that I was able to do with scientific background is, you know,
[18:54]it's been 50 years. All this stuff has been studied. But just like it was studied under the name
[18:59]of acceptance and commitment therapy or something else, right? So I've been able to draw those
[19:03]links. So you can see how the science supports it. And then we'll try to make it super simple to
[19:09]apply it and things as straightforward as if there's some prompts in each chapter. And if you just
[19:14]think through them, you're applying it. And then you can use it again, you know, later. So let's
[19:20]see chapter here. Okay. So okay. So here, I'll just go ahead and read because like a book event
[19:27]often has a reading. Yes, exactly. Okay. Um, so try this right now. So I'm going to invite all of
[19:33]you to remember a recent time when your partner or one of your kids or somebody close to you said
[19:38]something to you in an annoyed or angry tone. You don't have to tell me what it is. And you don't
[19:42]have to admit if it's the person sitting next to you. But, but is it, can you just give me a nod
[19:48]if you have something in mind? Okay, that wasn't hard to call. Oh, well, it's to mind. Okay. Um, so,
[19:57]all right. So right now at this moment,
[20:00]and you can step back from that memory
[20:02]and think about what the positive attention was behind.
[20:05]So that was that positive attention
[20:07]thing I had when I was mentioning earlier.
[20:10]So, which was not planned, that this would be 10.
[20:14]So you can start to wonder, like,
[20:16]what was that positive intention?
[20:18]So here's a question you can ask yourself
[20:20]that will help with that.
[20:22]Why was that important to them to say or do?
[20:27]So just take a moment, so you've got an answer.
[20:29]Why was it important to them to say or do?
[20:31]You might even imagine yourself in their shoes
[20:34]and answer, why was it important to me to say or do that?
[20:43]Is there anyone who doesn't have an answer yet in mind?
[20:46]Okay, most people have an answer.
[20:48]All right, so now that you have that answer,
[20:51]you can even take another step and say
[20:54]why regarding that answer,
[20:56]why was that important to them?
[21:08]All right, so, and then I'll skip this next paragraph
[21:12]for just a few examples.
[21:15]But then here's the next piece for you is,
[21:19]and you can just start to reflect on this right now.
[21:21]How does it affect you to see that positive intention?
[21:26]In whatever way it does.
[21:35]And now here's the last thing that I'll invite you to reflect on
[21:40]is next time they do something similar.
[21:44]And you remember that positive intention?
[21:49]What will you do or say differently?
[21:57]All right, so, yeah, so,
[22:03]did anyone find that useful?
[22:07]Yeah, but anyone like to share anything about it?
[22:13]Is that correct?
[22:15]Does anyone brave enough?
[22:16]No obligation?
[22:18]You have to read the rest of the book.
[22:21]Yeah.
[22:23]Yeah.
[22:25]So, what would happen is, sorry, should I pause longer?
[22:30]No, I think it would be fine.
[22:32]So, you alluded to it a little earlier.
[22:34]I mean, really, what is mal intent?
[22:37]You know, so, what do you do with that?
[22:39]So, I went through the process and I was thinking,
[22:41]you do feel better, right?
[22:43]You're sort of, you know, and the next time you might
[22:46]address, you know, the positive intent,
[22:50]then still say how you're feeling
[22:51]and maybe they'll change their behavior.
[22:53]But, I mean, I don't know.
[22:55]I mean, if somebody really wants to harm you,
[22:59]is it a better just to be defensive?
[23:03]Yeah, I mean, you're being offensive for a reason.
[23:07]Yeah.
[23:08]You know, I'm sure if I ask the question,
[23:10]how does it serve you to get defensive in that moment?
[23:13]You could probably come up with some really useful
[23:16]good answers, all right?
[23:19]Well, you know, I'm just sort of struggling.
[23:21]I don't have a good answer.
[23:22]I just, you know, there are just times
[23:24]I think when you're not misguided.
[23:28]Like, you were right on.
[23:29]Because people were being nice.
[23:30]They were trying to hurt you.
[23:32]You know, it dukes up.
[23:34]Right.
[23:35]I would say there were a lot of times, actually.
[23:37]I agree with you.
[23:38]I think there's a lot of times.
[23:40]Maybe it's even close to the time.
[23:42]They were missed, guys.
[23:44]They may have been trying to hurt you,
[23:46]even if it's a good person who you like.
[23:48]But it might have been somebody who you don't like.
[23:50]And it might have been, you know, somebody who really has
[23:53]does not have any of your interests at heart at any time, right?
[23:56]And so I don't want to suggest that that's not the case.
[23:59]There are behaviors that are bad that are not to be tolerated, right?
[24:02]That you should do something about.
[24:04]Or you should walk away from.
[24:07]I guess what I'm interested to explore.
[24:10]And this is part of the idea behind the difference that makes
[24:12]difference.
[24:13]It's not going to be the same for every person in every context.
[24:16]But in NLP, what we're trying to do is to unpack someone's
[24:21]mental model enough so that we can really try to identify quickly
[24:25]what will be the difference that will make the difference for you.
[24:28]In this particular case about the positive intention.
[24:32]And what you're describing, I would say.
[24:36]In what ways are you more likely to actually defend yourself
[24:43]or be able to defend yourself.
[24:45]Have you want to if you allow yourself to do this?
[24:48]It doesn't necessarily mean that you just acquiesce, right?
[24:53]Or try to make nice.
[24:55]But in what ways are you more likely to do what you know is right?
[24:58]And you need to do if you allow yourself.
[25:00]to take this step. I don't know if that takes you somewhere. Yeah. That's okay. Great.
[25:06]So does he provide more to close relationships with these aggression or attitudes that affect you
[25:15]more than you want to be with? We were hoping where aggression could be misguided or less.
[25:23]Yeah. So does it apply more to close relationships? And certainly the example
[25:29]I just gave you. I invite you to think of a close relationship. These are principles about what makes
[25:37]somebody act or what triggers you or about how to change or how to get yourself to pursue a goal
[25:48]or things like that. So they apply to in any case where you're communicating with another person
[25:58]or where you're trying to please to some form change. So if I were to, if we were to take this exact
[26:04]same issue and in this example, I might do think of a personal close relationship. But if I were to
[26:10]say, okay, let's look at your at least favorite political person or celebrity and let's think of
[26:19]something they did that annoys you or that bothers you. If we were to go through this,
[26:24]we probably would get some interesting insights that might be useful for you. Or if I'm thinking
[26:31]about one too many and I'm thinking about I'm averaging across this whole group, the people who
[26:37]might show up or the people who might comment on my book or read it or review it, I have some fears
[26:43]about that. If I'm able to kind of, when I get reviews that are not what I want or I get questions
[26:53]that kind of think that's like, hey, why aren't you talking about this? Or do you know,
[26:56]what does this really work or that sort of thing, which has happened to me? One thing I've learned
[27:03]to do is to kind of take the attitude, people don't speak up unless they're trying to get value
[27:08]out of what you're offering. They would just walk away otherwise. They wouldn't bother at all.
[27:14]So they have some desire to get value. So that's something where it's not a personal relationship
[27:21]but I find it useful for me to be able to play my best game.
[27:27]With almost out of time, we might have time, I think, for one more question if anyone has another
[27:31]question. Anyone? Oh, are you?
[27:38]So is there a step like when talking about like, closer more into the relationship,
[27:42]where you have like the presupposition and then you like then check it out with the other
[27:47]person? Oh, yes. Oh, yes. Yes. So, so there's at the beginning of the second section, the first
[27:57]that the opening to that is a chapter called Be curious. And this is kind of this attitude that
[28:04]if you're really great at NLP or at a lot of things, you are taking this idea of being curious
[28:11]about somebody's mind and how they see the world like to an extreme and just trying to
[28:20]oftentimes, if you get to a chance to observe someone doing NLP coaching,
[28:26]they're actually not really doing much problem solving or prescribing much. They're just
[28:31]asking a lot of questions. Somebody says, I really should get to the gym more. It's like,
[28:37]okay, so I noticed you said should. Let me ask some questions. I'm thinking that that means you
[28:43]have some relationship with getting to the gym that feels like an obligation and so you don't
[28:46]like to do and all that, right? And so I can ask about that. You know, what would happen if you
[28:50]didn't go, right? And I get some useful information or you know, it's like, you know, I just like,
[28:55]I can't take any more. We need a decision. Oh, okay. That's a decision isn't actually a thing.
[29:02]Something's probably distorted in the way you're thinking about it. Let me turn it back into a verb.
[29:07]How specifically have you been deciding or how specifically have you been failing to decide?
[29:11]So we get these ideas. We try. We ask questions and then somebody offers it. And there's a lot
[29:16]of backtracking where it's like, you know, somebody says like, you know, people, people would be angry
[29:22]and you might just say, and that's a very big statement. Who knows what that means? People
[29:27]which people and angry about what? And in what way? And that me, right? So you might just say,
[29:32]people will be angry. And that, you know, just this is what I'm hearing. The person might expand
[29:38]or you can say who's specifically you're saying, it seems to me like, if I was in your shoes,
[29:43]this is how I would feel does that happen? But then staying super open to the idea, the person
[29:47]might say, no, that's not it. And then that's a real wit. No, that's not it. So then there's
[29:53]something else. That's like a real way forward. So that's like, that's a huge part of making it work.
[29:58]It's having that kind of curiosity.
[30:00]and checking it out and really just being open to what the person is giving back and then
[30:07]knowing what to ask though when you're doing that then you can really hone in on what's
[30:13]going to matter for the person. Is there some identity issues or a limiting belief? Is there
[30:17]some way they're picturing things in their mind? Is there some value that's like they're struggling
[30:26]with part of them that's fighting with another part of them so you can kind of by taking
[30:30]that approach very quickly hone in on what will be the difference that will make the difference.
[30:35]Yeah. Thank you everybody. Thanks for being here and
[30:44]Josh is now available to sign copies of whose lovely book.
[30:56]Thank you guys so much. Thank you all for coming. Thank you to the people online. Thank you
[31:06]zibis for doing this and zibis if you haven't checked it out. Look at how they organize the books.
[31:12]This is very interesting. It's a lot of interesting books right here. It's been a lot of thought
[31:20]in it. But yes, it's a lot right here. This section is a wonderful section.
[31:24]And thank you, Helen. You really made this a really lovely way to do this.
[31:29]Yeah, so I'll be sticking around. And for those of you and we, you know,
[31:32]big friends, family, we'd love for you to stick around afterwards. We're just going to go down the street
[31:37]to, uh, um, create a new place and, uh, we can chat more. Yeah. Great. Very good. All right. Thanks.